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Author Topic: Official Game Day Thread - 108th Grey Cup Game December 12, 2021  (Read 19451 times)
longtimeblue
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« Reply #360 on: December 13, 2021, 09:30:57 PM »

 We need to get past this single point thing. In my opinion, the player was not properly coached for that situation.

 The bigger picture is that Hamilton had an opportunity to score the winning touchdown. What where they? 1st and goal from the 5? Couldn't do it. Bombers scored the winning TD.

 Grey Cup. No luck involved. Whining Cat fans all over social media. Cry me a river.
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dd
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« Reply #361 on: December 13, 2021, 10:31:57 PM »

Overlooked in all this discussion was MOS decision to take the safety and kick the ball off vs punt from the end zone into the wind. Assuming cats make th field goal, that?s giving up an extra point, which would have meant we lost.

Game was a hard fought battle with many ups and downs, glad we won it
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Waffler
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« Reply #362 on: December 13, 2021, 10:52:59 PM »

Overlooked in all this discussion was MOS decision to take the safety and kick the ball off vs punt from the end zone into the wind. Assuming cats make th field goal, that?s giving up an extra point, which would have meant we lost.

Game was a hard fought battle with many ups and downs, glad we won it

Yes. speaking of that why doesn't anyone squib the kickoff anymore?  Better against a strong wind?
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #363 on: December 13, 2021, 10:53:36 PM »

Overlooked in all this discussion was MOS decision to take the safety and kick the ball off vs punt from the end zone into the wind. Assuming cats make th field goal, that?s giving up an extra point, which would have meant we lost.

Game was a hard fought battle with many ups and downs, glad we won it

Not gaining a first down on the play before that punt at the end of the 3rd Q was a real low point, they left too much time on the clock for the Ti-Cats to score with the wind at their backs.
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jeremy q public
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« Reply #364 on: December 13, 2021, 11:41:54 PM »

From Hamilton news:
Steinauer said the club had told returner Tim White to make the decision whether to concede that single point once he saw the ball in the air and said he was fine with White?s choice.

My reaction is shock. A coach said play it however you want? and further, they have a returner that doesn't believe he can break one every time? Most guys play with a chip on their shoulder and bring that out automatically.

If Tim White's instinct when looking at 40 yards of grass in front of him was to kneel, he has no business returning kicks.
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oskee woot woot
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« Reply #365 on: December 14, 2021, 12:53:13 AM »

We need to get past this single point thing. In my opinion, the player was not properly coached for that situation.

 The bigger picture is that Hamilton had an opportunity to score the winning touchdown. What where they? 1st and goal from the 5? Couldn't do it. Bombers scored the winning TD.

 Grey Cup. No luck involved. Whining Cat fans all over social media. Cry me a river.

As a Ticat fan, this actually bothered me more then the single point. They should have tried to win or lose the game in those last seconds. What's the difference between that and going to overtime? Overtime has too many variables over an extended period of time. The Cats seemed deflated in overtime from not winning it then and there and the Bombers had more energy.  They should have left it to just that one play. Win it or lose it.
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BLUEBOMBER
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« Reply #366 on: December 14, 2021, 04:07:14 AM »

White may have lost the game for the Ticats but the same could have been said about Acklin not being able to hold on for the TD catch in the 4th.
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oskee woot woot
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« Reply #367 on: December 14, 2021, 04:33:16 AM »

White may have lost the game for the Ticats but the same could have been said about Acklin not being able to hold on for the TD catch in the 4th.

In real time, and sitting right in the corner of the stadium where that play happened, it looked more like a really good defensive play by the Bomber defender rather than anything Acklin did. Mind you, I haven't watched a replay yet. Just going by my in-game experience.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #368 on: December 14, 2021, 04:48:02 AM »

As a Ticat fan, this actually bothered me more then the single point. They should have tried to win or lose the game in those last seconds. What's the difference between that and going to overtime? Overtime has too many variables over an extended period of time. The Cats seemed deflated in overtime from not winning it then and there and the Bombers had more energy.  They should have left it to just that one play. Win it or lose it.

I was waiting for someone to say this!  I 100% agree.  The book says you tie it and go into OT.  But who here doubted WPG would win in OT?  I knew instantly we were going to win.

Look at Lapo in the final OTT game.  He can go for 1 to tie and then lose it in OT because he had the worse team.  But he went for 2 to win because really that was his only chance to win.  He was honest with himself.

So hear me out: HAM was the worse team.  Not by much, but worse.

Look at it like a casino.  The house is favored on all rolls or spins, not by much, but just enough.  The house (here, WPG) can lose to one player over a brief period of time (HAM winning for most of the game).  But the more you play, the more the house odds will factor in and if you play enough, you're going to lose.

HAM had their "good luck" as they went beyond the averages of their players' potential for 3 quarters.  But the game was 4 quarters, and the slightly better average capability of our players allowed us to catch up.  Going into OT was pressing the bet against the house.  The odds were in our favor.

Oskee puts the exclamation on it by pointing out the morale situation (and, I'll add, momentum).  HAM looked like they were ready to roll over and die on the sidelines before and during OT.  Coach O should have read the team.

Yes, Oskee, the correct move was to put it all on the line on 3rd & 5 and go for the TD.  It's practically a 2 point convert, which is what HAM is supposed to be the best at!  Surely they had a ton of gadget plays to draw from.  See, at that point they still had momentum, morale and hope.  They had just driven the field!  You go for it all like Lapo, you walk away heroes or you get crucified for the "dumb decision to go for it".  Maybe choosing OT is the coward's way out: no one will lambast you for that, since you're following the book.  But it didn't give HAM the best chance to win.

(P.S. I would have made that decision before 1st down at the 5 and decided to go for 3 high-percentage run plays, or QB option / shovels.  You can bet WPG would do 2-3 run plays in that situation: 2 to get close to the 1 and then sneak.  If WPG loads the box on 1st like we did, you do something outside the tackles like HAM did all game.  And you get yourself a better powerback who can still get 1-2 off a stuffed box, like AH33.  Maybe STE would have been the better choice over Don.)
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #369 on: December 14, 2021, 04:57:00 AM »

In real time, and sitting right in the corner of the stadium where that play happened, it looked more like a really good defensive play by the Bomber defender rather than anything Acklin did. Mind you, I haven't watched a replay yet. Just going by my in-game experience.

You are 100% correct again.  Nichols made the same level of play on that ball as Jones did on Jones in 2019.  Both plays could have won the game.  People who aren't paying close attention don't see it and thus think it was just Jones dropping it and Acklin dropping it.  They're wrong.

Nichols gets literally his fingertips on it by maybe 1 or 2 inches.  The ball deflects maybe 5-10 inches right in front of Acklin and he has no time to adjust.

Nichols kind of won the game twice for us!  I agree with Aards, that Nichols might have been a better MVP choice.  I wasn't paying enough attention to numbers during the rest of the game to see if Nichols made (or botched) more plays, but if he did make more plays, he should have had MVP.  (Though I'm fine with ZC8 getting it too, but for different reasons: mental toughness, leadership, poise, grit.)
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #370 on: December 14, 2021, 04:59:47 AM »

Overlooked in all this discussion was MOS decision to take the safety and kick the ball off vs punt from the end zone into the wind. Assuming cats make th field goal, that?s giving up an extra point, which would have meant we lost.

Yup, I was wondering about that decision.  Goes to show why "In MOS We Trust", eh?  It was the right move.  Sure, we only gained 20-35 yards net in trade for those 2 points (because we still had to kick off into the wind), but it was the correct "book" play, correct for the MOS philosophy, and worked out.

But, man, giving up 2 points at that point to go down more than TD+FG was painful.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #371 on: December 14, 2021, 05:03:59 AM »

I don't buy that coach O told him you decide if you want to bring it out or take a knee. I think this is just coach O not wanting to throw the Ham player under the bus and took the blame for this mistake.

Very likely, yes, Coach O standing up for his player.

BUT... in MOS's post-game sit-down presser, he said it was smart and he would have done the same.  Now, Coach O might stand up for his player, but is this MOS standing up for his good (and horribly defeated) friend??  Maybe?  That seems like a stretch.

Every CFL fan went apoplectic at that exact moment.  Riderfans were blowing up.  HAM fans looked crazed and bewildered in the stands.  WPG players looked confused.  WPG fans all posting "huh??".  So the only 2 people in the CFL world who thought it was smart was Coach O and MOS??  Oh ya, and apparently the returner.

Oh, if MOS did that and we lost because of it... we'd be going off right about now.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #372 on: December 14, 2021, 05:07:26 AM »

Hamilton's ability to bring in a backup and still compete so well should be a wakeup call.

Well, maybe not as critical when you have our OL and a QB who smartly doesn't run at all.  Think of our QB as Ricky Ray.

The bigger question is: does HAM let Masoli walk or Evans walk?  I thought it was going to be Masoli, but when push came to shove, Masoli got the job done better than anyone would have dreamed while Evans sat mildly injured on the sidelines.  I'm a Masoli fan, I'd keep Masoli.  Evans is still just a kid: good future, but not capable of winning at GC yet.

The league is hurting for good QBs.  I can't see any situation HAM retains both QBs next year.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #373 on: December 14, 2021, 05:09:56 AM »

When did he say that? Sorry, I'm a little skeptical he said that in so many words, but I could be wrong. Did the forecast called for the wind to pick up later in the game? Maybe it did, I don't know. But that's the only way I could see him saying that.

He didn't say it exactly as paraphrased, but it was close.  In the long sit-down presser post-game, MOS did say that having won the toss there was no way he wasn't taking the wind in the 4th.  He basically said it was of great importance.

I questioned his choice, as that gives HAM the extra chance to get momentum in the 1st and 3rd and be up by too much to overcome.  But MOS, once again, was right.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #374 on: December 14, 2021, 01:15:36 PM »

White may have lost the game for the Ticats but the same could have been said about Acklin not being able to hold on for the TD catch in the 4th.

Nichols got a hand on that pass, which made it difficult for Acklin for pull it in. That was a huge play by Nichols to hold the marching Ti-Cats to a FG.

The fact is one play didn't really determine the outcome of the game. This was a hard fought battle for most of the night, with key plays throughout.
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