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Author Topic: Official Game Day Thread - 108th Grey Cup Game December 12, 2021  (Read 19505 times)
Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #345 on: December 13, 2021, 07:54:57 PM »

From Hamilton news:
Steinauer said the club had told returner Tim White to make the decision whether to concede that single point once he saw the ball in the air and said he was fine with White?s choice.

My reaction is shock. A coach said play it however you want? and further, they have a returner that doesn't believe he can break one every time? Most guys play with a chip on their shoulder and bring that out automatically.

Coach seems like he's trusting the player to make the best decision. If it's a kick that's fielded at deep in the end zone, taking a knee probably makes sense. If he nearly on the one, you run it out if it looks like the kick cover team hasn't got down yet.

Giving the player the option isn't the worst thing. It was a very questionable decision to kneel it right near the goal line with what looked like room to run it out though. I'd put that more on the player than the coach.
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Waffler
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« Reply #346 on: December 13, 2021, 07:56:14 PM »

I never heard anyone mention similarities to the wind bowl of 1965. Also Bombers vs Ticats. We gave up 3 safeties in that one rather than punt into the wind. All the scoring was with the wind. Zero points into it.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #347 on: December 13, 2021, 07:58:57 PM »

 

Totally disagree. The second Int. We had two receivers in the area, ZC8 over threw the first receiver and under threw the second one. Would be nice to know which one he was actually throwing to.

Which part of wind influence did you miss? The wind was clearly impeding velocity and accuracy for both QB's. In some cases the ball was pushed down, in some cases it floated up.  Both QB's were also under quite a bit of pressure from the front 7.

That 2nd int there were two receivers at different depths. It appeared the throw was to the deeper receiver but Kelly undercut the route and made the pick. Again, very good read by the DB and they are paid to make plays too.

Several completions by both QB's were contested by the defence in small windows. The difference between a reception, in-completion or int is the communication between the QB and the receiver assuming the QB is " time " to throw etc etc.

As in the OPI by Lawler his awareness of the situation to prevent an int also comes into play.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #348 on: December 13, 2021, 08:02:00 PM »

In the post game Collaros said that on the first interception Mark Washington made an excellent play call and the defender played it perfectly. The second interception he described as an in inexcusable throw.

It wasn't his best throw of the night.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #349 on: December 13, 2021, 08:02:44 PM »

One of the turning points of the game was when the Ticat received the ball in the Endzone and took a knee. That ball would most likely have gone through the endzone without being touched, which would have given Hamilton the win by a point in regular time. (Ball on the 25 instead of the 35 wouldn't have made any difference to kicking the FG.)
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« Reply #350 on: December 13, 2021, 08:03:09 PM »

Coach seems like he's trusting the player to make the best decision. If it's a kick that's fielded at deep in the end zone, taking a knee probably makes sense. If he nearly on the one, you run it out if it looks like the kick cover team hasn't got down yet.

Giving the player the option isn't the worst thing. It was a very questionable decision to kneel it right near the goal line with what looked like room to run it out though. I'd put that more on the player than the coach.

Yes and no. In this particular case giving up a point was critical in the overall thinking of what should have happened. Field position into the wind was also weighing large for the returner. However we've seen kicks into the end zone returned the length of the field. No perfect answer.

I'm not sure if he would have been able to get the ball past the 20 yard line or been tackled inside the 15 yard line. Hindsight is perfect.

I'll have a better idea after I re-watch the game but the feeling at the time was it was a mistake to not make the effort considering the score.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #351 on: December 13, 2021, 08:06:29 PM »

From Hamilton news:
Steinauer said the club had told returner Tim White to make the decision whether to concede that single point once he saw the ball in the air and said he was fine with White?s choice.

My reaction is shock. A coach said play it however you want? and further, they have a returner that doesn't believe he can break one every time? Most guys play with a chip on their shoulder and bring that out automatically.

He was starting the the endzone, but had room to start out.  But he knows the Bombers have a great cover team, and were coming downhill with a vengeance.  Taking a knee means a start at the 35, and no chance of a strip of fumble on the return.  He could have been blown up at the 15, or worse, fumbled or stripped (a very high incidence of turnovers on runbacks of late).

And yes, making it a three point game takes the FG off the board for the win, but they were heading into the wind.  There is no way they are looking to score a FG to win the game... they are counting on a major score there.  And that is a lot more likely starting at the 35...

I get the concept.  But does this affect the chances of Reinebold getting Steinhauer's job when he moves on?  I'm thinking it does... Condell or Washington will get the job... if they want it...

We don't know what the cover team looked like from his standpoint.  That would be an awesome picture to have.  What was he looking at when he decided to take a knee?
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longtimeblue
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« Reply #352 on: December 13, 2021, 08:28:44 PM »

He was starting the the endzone, but had room to start out.  But he knows the Bombers have a great cover team, and were coming downhill with a vengeance.  Taking a knee means a start at the 35, and no chance of a strip of fumble on the return.  He could have been blown up at the 15, or worse, fumbled or stripped (a very high incidence of turnovers on runbacks of late).

And yes, making it a three point game takes the FG off the board for the win, but they were heading into the wind.  There is no way they are looking to score a FG to win the game... they are counting on a major score there.  And that is a lot more likely starting at the 35...

I get the concept.  But does this affect the chances of Reinebold getting Steinhauer's job when he moves on?  I'm thinking it does... Condell or Washington will get the job... if they want it...

We don't know what the cover team looked like from his standpoint.  That would be an awesome picture to have.  What was he looking at when he decided to take a knee?

 If Steinhauer left that decision up to the player, then that takes luck out of the equation. His thinking was play for a touchdown or take the FG and win in OT. It was a bad call. A coaching error. Average return on a shallow endzone KO is out around the 20-25. As it was, the Cats almost scored a TD. Which makes it look better.
 Smart coaching would be to run it out and leave the FG win on the table. The kneel down to gain 10 or 15 yards of field position was a bad coaching decision.

 MOS runs that thing out every time. If it's deep, let it go and hope it goes through. Concede if it doesn't. If it's shallow, run it out. If they return it, they probably win.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2021, 08:44:22 PM by longtimeblue » Logged
longtimeblue
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« Reply #353 on: December 13, 2021, 08:56:48 PM »

 I'm seeing lots of online stuff. Hamilton deserved to win. If only. No they didn't. Ticats won the toss and chose to defend
and couldn't pull it off. Bombers marched it down in overtime and added the 2 point convert. The better team made plays when they had to. This cements the short Collaros legacy. Guy had a tough game in tough conditions and pulled it together for a game winning score. Well deserved MVP. Pay this guy. And start looking for a backup that can play more than a short yardage role. Collaros goes down in that game, it's bye bye cup. We've seen what Mcguire can do.

 Hamilton's ability to bring in a backup and still compete so well should be a wakeup call.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2021, 09:07:14 PM by longtimeblue » Logged
Pigskin
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« Reply #354 on: December 13, 2021, 09:10:21 PM »

He was starting the the endzone, but had room to start out.  But he knows the Bombers have a great cover team, and were coming downhill with a vengeance.  Taking a knee means a start at the 35, and no chance of a strip of fumble on the return.  He could have been blown up at the 15, or worse, fumbled or stripped (a very high incidence of turnovers on runbacks of late).

And yes, making it a three point game takes the FG off the board for the win, but they were heading into the wind.  There is no way they are looking to score a FG to win the game... they are counting on a major score there.  And that is a lot more likely starting at the 35...

I get the concept.  But does this affect the chances of Reinebold getting Steinhauer's job when he moves on?  I'm thinking it does... Condell or Washington will get the job... if they want it...

We don't know what the cover team looked like from his standpoint.  That would be an awesome picture to have.  What was he looking at when he decided to take a knee?

A return also would have used up seconds on the clock. I was more surprised that Hamilton moved down the field as quickly as they did.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2021, 09:46:18 PM by Pigskin » Logged

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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #355 on: December 13, 2021, 09:12:39 PM »

He was starting the the endzone, but had room to start out.  But he knows the Bombers have a great cover team, and were coming downhill with a vengeance.  Taking a knee means a start at the 35, and no chance of a strip of fumble on the return.  He could have been blown up at the 15, or worse, fumbled or stripped (a very high incidence of turnovers on runbacks of late).

And yes, making it a three point game takes the FG off the board for the win, but they were heading into the wind.  There is no way they are looking to score a FG to win the game... they are counting on a major score there.  And that is a lot more likely starting at the 35...

I get the concept.  But does this affect the chances of Reinebold getting Steinhauer's job when he moves on?  I'm thinking it does... Condell or Washington will get the job... if they want it...


I don't think Reinebold is looking for a HC job, he's happy as a duck in water being STC and he'll stay in that position as long as they'll have him.  It's unfortunate things didn't work out for him in Wpg. but I've learned to respect him, he's a very cool guy.
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #356 on: December 13, 2021, 09:13:49 PM »

I don't think Reinebold is looking for a HC job, he's happy as a duck in water being STC and he'll stay in that position as long as they'll have him.  It's unfortunate things didn't work out for him in Wpg. but I've learned to respect him, he's a very cool guy.
oh he is definitely cool Cool Lol
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« Reply #357 on: December 13, 2021, 09:16:52 PM »

From Hamilton news:
Steinauer said the club had told returner Tim White to make the decision whether to concede that single point once he saw the ball in the air and said he was fine with White?s choice.

My reaction is shock. A coach said play it however you want? and further, they have a returner that doesn't believe he can break one every time? Most guys play with a chip on their shoulder and bring that out automatically.

If you watch the highlight of this play, you can see the Bombers kick off and start going down field. When the camera moves to the end zone to show the returner, the Bomber players would only be between the 55 and the Hamilton 50 when the returner fielded the kick 1-2 yards in his end zone, he had enough room to run it out to t least the 30 before any Bomber would of had a chance to tackle him. I don't buy that coach O told him you decide if you want to bring it out or take a knee. I think this is just coach O not wanting to throw the Ham player under the bus and took the blame for this mistake.
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kronic
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« Reply #358 on: December 13, 2021, 09:17:51 PM »

My guess is Steinhauer is taking the blame for the player messing up simply because he doesn?t want to throw him under the bus publicly. That?s what good coaches do.
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longtimeblue
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« Reply #359 on: December 13, 2021, 09:21:37 PM »

If you watch the highlight of this play, you can see the Bombers kick off and start going down field. When the camera moves to the end zone to show the returner, the Bomber players would only be between the 55 and the Hamilton 50 when the returner fielded the kick 1-2 yards in his end zone, he had enough room to run it out to t least the 30 before any Bomber would of had a chance to tackle him. I don't buy that coach O told him you decide if you want to bring it out or take a knee. I think this is just coach O not wanting to throw the Ham player under the bus and took the blame for this mistake.

 This. I agree. I think he just went with his American football instincts and thought touchback. Ball on the 25. CFL rules are still a novelty to a lot of these players.
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