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Author Topic: Winnipeg Jets Discussion - 2021/2022 Season  (Read 68805 times)
Jesse
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« Reply #945 on: June 01, 2022, 05:44:59 PM »

Has it not been widely reported that Trotz is looking to transition to a GM role, and that might be the sweetener that tilts his decision towards the Jets, with Chevy moving to a VP role?  I certainly didn't come up with that out of the blue.

Unless Serivalli is working for the Jets, that's not really substantiation, just quoting someone else's speculation.  No different that I did (although I didn't quote the sources, but they are all readily available through Google)

In the first part, you quote speculation. Then in the second part, you refuse to acknowledge what you call speculation - just as an example as to why you're getting a hard time here.

But as to the first part, the specualation refers to Trotz wanting to transition into the personnel side of thins - that doesn't mean jump to the GM chair. There's a number of roles to be had.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #946 on: June 01, 2022, 05:55:05 PM »

Unless Serivalli Seravalli is working for the Jets, that's not really substantiation, just quoting someone else's speculation.  No different that I did (although I didn't quote the sources, but they are all readily available through Google)

Frank Seravalli is a well-known and respected reporter when it comes to the NHL. That is literally his job, similar to Darren Dreger, Pierre LeBrun, or Elliotte Friedman. His being connected to the league holds significantly more weight than any fan who can type something into a search bar on their computer.

One's a reliable source for NHL-related information; the other doesn't even come close. It is very different, not to mention a pretty bad look to try and put yourself on the same level as him.

Also, it's nobody's responsibility but yours to prove your claims. That's how burden of proof works.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 10:14:58 PM by ModAdmin » Logged

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Pigskin
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« Reply #947 on: June 02, 2022, 03:24:50 AM »

TSN reporting: Winnipeg Jets NOT expected to trade MS55 in the off season.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #948 on: June 02, 2022, 01:20:51 PM »

TSN reporting: Winnipeg Jets NOT expected to trade MS55 in the off season.

NHL reported it on Tuesday, too: https://www.nhl.com/news/mark-scheifele-expected-back-with-winnipeg-jets-next-season/c-334402466

Quote
BUFFALO -- Mark Scheifele is expected to remain with the Winnipeg Jets next season, general manager Kevin Cheveldayoff said Tuesday.

Scheifele questioned his future in Winnipeg after the Jets (39-32-11) missed the Stanley Cup Playoffs for the first time in five seasons, finishing eight points behind the Nashville Predators for the second wild card from the Western Conference. The center has two seasons remaining on the eight-year, $49 million contract he signed July 8, 2016.

"Yeah, I do," Cheveldayoff told NHL.com at the 2022 Adidas NHL Scouting Combine. "My exit interview with Mark went well. Again, it was an emotional time for everybody. We asked [our players] to wear their emotions in the exits, and I think they were very productive."
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Jesse
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« Reply #949 on: June 02, 2022, 01:37:36 PM »

Even if we wanted to - and I'm sure a few teams heard all the rumours and called Chevy with "offers" - it's an impossible trade.

You cannot get the production that Schiefele had (either in points or an equal value of defence) at the contract he had. And we can't afford to bring on more salary than we're sending out.

The only way to move him would be to give up, say we're rebuilding, and trade him for draft picks.

No one involved is willing to do that.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #950 on: June 02, 2022, 02:32:20 PM »


OK, what's Chevy supposed to say...  how many announcements like this are followed with "MS55 has been traded"... its part of negotiation.  Make the asset more valuable by saying you actually don't want to trade him.

I'd still put money on MS55 never taking a faceoff in a Jets uniform again...
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #951 on: June 02, 2022, 02:51:42 PM »

OK, what's Chevy supposed to say...  how many announcements like this are followed with "MS55 has been traded"... its part of negotiation.  Make the asset more valuable by saying you actually don't want to trade him.

I'd still put money on MS55 never taking a faceoff in a Jets uniform again...

Of course you would. You can't stand him.

Cheveldayoff was asked a question and he answered it pretty candidly, which is something we don't always get from him considering how close he plays his cards to the chest. Leave it to you to nonsensically read into things without any basis, though. And what negotiation? There hasn't even been a breath of a rumour regarding any potential trade or trade partner.

Funny how you won't take his comments at face value despite the fact he's the GM of the team, but you had no issue taking Dreger's comments on the Ron Pederson Show from nearly a month ago at face value despite the fact he's not part of the organization - something you just chided me for yesterday when I shared comments made by Servavalli regarding Flaherty's future.

Pick a lane.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #952 on: June 02, 2022, 05:15:40 PM »

Of course you would. You can't stand him.

Cheveldayoff was asked a question and he answered it pretty candidly, which is something we don't always get from him considering how close he plays his cards to the chest. Leave it to you to nonsensically read into things without any basis, though. And what negotiation? There hasn't even been a breath of a rumour regarding any potential trade or trade partner.

Funny how you won't take his comments at face value despite the fact he's the GM of the team, but you had no issue taking Dreger's comments on the Ron Pederson Show from nearly a month ago at face value despite the fact he's not part of the organization - something you just chided me for yesterday when I shared comments made by Servavalli regarding Flaherty's future.

Pick a lane.

Again, I respect MS55's contributions to the team, and I know he is a top player in the league.  Its not that "I can't stand him", its just that I like PLD80 better.  Is that hard to understand? 

And, while people might say there is room for 1a, 1b C's on a team, I cannot see that happening.  It just doesn't seem to work in the room.  Especially when your "1a" is getting paid less than "1b" and playing on the second line.  Because you know next year it is PLD80 and KC81 anchoring the top line. 

So, what is MS55's spot here?  How does that role bode for his career?  His family? The concerns he expressed in his exit interview?

Or do you propose that PLD80 moves to RW on a MS55, PLD80, KC81 line?  Pretty sure they tried versions of that without as much success as you would want from that combo.

"Yeah, I do," Cheveldayoff told NHL.com at the 2022 Adidas NHL Scouting Combine. "My exit interview with Mark went well. Again, it was an emotional time for everybody. We asked [our players] to wear their emotions in the exits, and I think they were very productive."

No mention of discussions post exit interview, no new information.  We still have to see how MS55 reacts to the new coach, PLD80's new contract, and any other moves they make on/before draft day.  Any of these things can make a 180 degree change in those sentiments.  Especially when MS55 is quoted in that article as saying:

"I have to think about my career and what's going to be best for me. I have to talk to my agents and everyone in my family and stuff like that and figure out what I really want."


My thoughts are based on more than just point totals, but rather take into account team dynamic and potential for conflict.  Depending on who takes over as coach, you may see MS55's attitude change, one way or the other.  Depending on how long and for what number PLD80 signs for, that can cause another change in MS55's attitude (and before anyone says that what one player makes has no bearing on what another player's attitude is, that's bull puckey)

You want to create as talented AND as harmonious a team dynamic as you can.  The idea of trading MS55 is ONLY possible if the return is appropriate.  A good GM trades from a position of strength to shore up a position of weakness.  With 2 #1C on the team, and no #1D, swapping out a #1C for a #1D and maybe some more is a no brainer.  Your job as GM is to make the team stronger. 

Having PLD80 slotted in as your #1c for the next 8 years (if he wants the job) would make this team stronger long term.  In 2 years, you are not going to have both PLD80 and MS55 on this team.  One will get have a #1C contract and leadership role at that time, and we may lose the other for no return at all.  Getting a #1D right now, when we need one, makes the best sense today, and in the future.

If you don't think PLD80 can be a #1C and lead this team, then this trade scenario makes no sense at all.  But, if like I you think he is the better choice going forward (younger, more upside, less downside), trading MS55 makes the most sense.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #953 on: June 02, 2022, 05:23:40 PM »

OK, what's Chevy supposed to say...  how many announcements like this are followed with "MS55 has been traded"... its part of negotiation.  Make the asset more valuable by saying you actually don't want to trade him.

I'd still put money on MS55 never taking a faceoff in a Jets uniform again...

How about we bet if your wrong you can't talk about the Jets or MS55 ever again. And if your right, then I can't.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #954 on: June 02, 2022, 05:26:22 PM »

*gets popcorn*
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Jesse
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« Reply #955 on: June 02, 2022, 05:31:24 PM »

Again, I respect MS55's contributions to the team, and I know he is a top player in the league.  Its not that "I can't stand him", its just that I like PLD80 better.  Is that hard to understand? 

And, while people might say there is room for 1a, 1b C's on a team, I cannot see that happening.  It just doesn't seem to work in the room.  Especially when your "1a" is getting paid less than "1b" and playing on the second line.  Because you know next year it is PLD80 and KC81 anchoring the top line. 



You're describing every successful team in the league though.

You need multiple centres. They will all get paid like top players. They will all get roughly equal minutes. This #1, #2 thing doesn't exist except for fans and top 10 lists.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #956 on: June 02, 2022, 05:50:09 PM »

How about we bet if your wrong you can't talk about the Jets or MS55 ever again. And if your right, then I can't.

Much easier... no one seems to be understanding my point, or agreeing with it, so it is pointless to continue.

Enjoy your forum.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #957 on: June 02, 2022, 06:38:21 PM »

Again, I respect MS55's contributions to the team, and I know he is a top player in the league.  Its not that "I can't stand him", its just that I like PLD80 better.  Is that hard to understand? 

And, while people might say there is room for 1a, 1b C's on a team, I cannot see that happening.  It just doesn't seem to work in the room.  Especially when your "1a" is getting paid less than "1b" and playing on the second line.  Because you know next year it is PLD80 and KC81 anchoring the top line. 

So, what is MS55's spot here?  How does that role bode for his career?  His family? The concerns he expressed in his exit interview?

Or do you propose that PLD80 moves to RW on a MS55, PLD80, KC81 line?  Pretty sure they tried versions of that without as much success as you would want from that combo.

"Yeah, I do," Cheveldayoff told NHL.com at the 2022 Adidas NHL Scouting Combine. "My exit interview with Mark went well. Again, it was an emotional time for everybody. We asked [our players] to wear their emotions in the exits, and I think they were very productive."

No mention of discussions post exit interview, no new information.  We still have to see how MS55 reacts to the new coach, PLD80's new contract, and any other moves they make on/before draft day.  Any of these things can make a 180 degree change in those sentiments.  Especially when MS55 is quoted in that article as saying:

"I have to think about my career and what's going to be best for me. I have to talk to my agents and everyone in my family and stuff like that and figure out what I really want."


My thoughts are based on more than just point totals, but rather take into account team dynamic and potential for conflict.  Depending on who takes over as coach, you may see MS55's attitude change, one way or the other.  Depending on how long and for what number PLD80 signs for, that can cause another change in MS55's attitude (and before anyone says that what one player makes has no bearing on what another player's attitude is, that's bull puckey)

You want to create as talented AND as harmonious a team dynamic as you can.  The idea of trading MS55 is ONLY possible if the return is appropriate.  A good GM trades from a position of strength to shore up a position of weakness.  With 2 #1C on the team, and no #1D, swapping out a #1C for a #1D and maybe some more is a no brainer.  Your job as GM is to make the team stronger. 

Having PLD80 slotted in as your #1c for the next 8 years (if he wants the job) would make this team stronger long term.  In 2 years, you are not going to have both PLD80 and MS55 on this team.  One will get have a #1C contract and leadership role at that time, and we may lose the other for no return at all.  Getting a #1D right now, when we need one, makes the best sense today, and in the future.

If you don't think PLD80 can be a #1C and lead this team, then this trade scenario makes no sense at all.  But, if like I you think he is the better choice going forward (younger, more upside, less downside), trading MS55 makes the most sense.

All those words when you could've just said "I don't understand the complexities of professional hockey, player contracts, and roster management well enough to make a well thought-out, rational, critically sound argument with irrefutable proof as to why Dubois is now better than Scheifele, he should be given 1C right now, and should also be given a letter. Oh, and Scheifele should be traded for a winger and a defenseman."

"Scheifele is soft. He stinks. He's redundant. He's lacklustre. He's disgruntled. His +/- isn't worth his contract. Throw him in the press box. Copp is worth keeping over him."

Based on just that handful of remarks, it seems pretty apparent you don't respect Scheifele or his contributions. If you did, you wouldn't be so irrationally critical of him or his 2021-22 campaign when the majority of the team struggled with defensive play and consistency, not to mention injuries, COVID Protocol, a head coach resigning, and a mediocre replacement. It's baffling how you've so easily turned on of the best players in Jets 2.0 history based on one season and in the same breath want to anoint Dubois the top centre and even the captaincy (or an A at the very least) based on the exact same criteria: one season. There is nothing objective about that approach.

You continue to dig in your heels and defend this narrative you've adopted but present no evidence or actual data, relying instead on the same repetitive conjecture based on your own biases and assumptions. There's no impartiality based on the months-long vilification of one player you've pretty much written off. And when others have presented differing views or opinions, you've either ignored them or found a way to move the goalposts of your argument.

...no one seems to be understanding my point, or agreeing with it, so it is pointless to continue.

You're not shocked, are you? The horse was beaten to death quite a while ago and only now you've decided to read the room.

Enjoy your forum.

Looking forward to it. Grin
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« Reply #958 on: June 07, 2022, 03:55:44 AM »

Kyle Connor wins lady Byng.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #959 on: June 07, 2022, 12:31:13 PM »

Kyle Connor wins lady Byng.

Well deserved! He had a fantastic season.
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