Winnipeg Jets Discussion - 2021/2022 Season

[Jesse]

Did you watch last season, or the IIHF tournament?  PLD80 is ready for #1C...  

One key to trading MS55 is re-signing PS25, which will not be hard to do.  AL17, CP91 and a plethora of prospects at C ae champing at the bit to move up.  Two years ago, with PL29 instead of PLD80 on the roster, no.  But now, it will depend on if the new coach is on board with keeping MS55 or is OK with moving on from him... and I guess it also depends on whether MS55 is on board with the coach they choose... which might not be the case if they land Trotz

We need more than just PLD. There isn't enough on the team without him.

[theaardvark]

We need more than just PLD. There isn't enough on the team without him.

Which is why PS25 re-signing is important if MS55 is moved...

AL17 is a solid 3c that can move up if needed, and CP91 showed a lot of ability to possibly be the #2c and still have upside. 

Having a C corps of PLD80, PS25, AL17 and CP91 + prospects is not a bad lineup... especially if we get a top RW and/or D back for MS55...

[Jesse]

I 100% disagree and think our team takes a serious step back if that's what we're sending out there.

AL17 is a 4th liner

PS25 is a good vet presence to have, but is not going to continue as a top tandem option at C. He's a complimentary piece.

CP91 is a child who we hope get some good development this year.

I am a huge PLD fan, but you need to be 4 centres deep, and we finally have 2 now that we've aquired PLD, we're not going back to just having 1.

[Pigskin]

Which is why PS25 re-signing is important if MS55 is moved...

AL17 is a solid 3c that can move up if needed, and CP91 showed a lot of ability to possibly be the #2c and still have upside. 

Having a C corps of PLD80, PS25, AL17 and CP91 + prospects is not a bad lineup... especially if we get a top RW and/or D back for MS55...

And the broken record keeping on turning. You just keep repeating yourself.

[Pigskin]

I 100% disagree and think our team takes a serious step back if that's what we're sending out there.

AL17 is a 4th liner

PS25 is a good vet presence to have, but is not going to continue as a top tandem option at C. He's a complimentary piece.

CP91 is a child who we hope get some good development this year.

I am a huge PLD fan, but you need to be 4 centres deep, and we finally have 2 now that we've aquired PLD, we're not going back to just having 1.

Totally agree. Except I think AL17 is a solid 3rd. line C.

[theaardvark]

I 100% disagree and think our team takes a serious step back if that's what we're sending out there.

AL17 is a 4th liner

PS25 is a good vet presence to have, but is not going to continue as a top tandem option at C. He's a complimentary piece.

CP91 is a child who we hope get some good development this year.

I am a huge PLD fan, but you need to be 4 centres deep, and we finally have 2 now that we've aquired PLD, we're not going back to just having 1.

AL17 is a SOLID 3rd C with huge PK ability and the ability to move up in a pinch.  He is not a 4th liner, not even close.

PS25 isn't a spring chicken, but he can give you solid minutes at C, and is never a question about his presence in the locker room.  He can buy a year to get to...

CP91 is just a baby, and last year was pressed into service and produced above expectations (which were high).  No reason to think he isn't going to continue to develop...

Just saying, if the right pieces come back for MS55, the team CAN be better than it is now.  Yes, MS55 puts up a point a game, and that will be missed, but can those points be found elsewhere, and can the D game be tightened in his absence?

[Pigskin]

MS55 has been a plus player most of his career. 2020/21 he was -4, 2021/22 -15. Now considering a lot of the Jets where minus players this year, I would say we need a new D system.

[Jesse]

Totally agree. Except I think AL17 is a solid 3rd. line C.

I say this with the caveat that he is a 4th liner on a team who uses all 4 lines.

I dreamed that this year we would have 4 lines with 55-80-25-17 down the centre. And then use all 4 lines more equally.

I don't have anything against AL17, I just want our 4th line to produce at that level.

[Jesse]

AL17 is a SOLID 3rd C with huge PK ability and the ability to move up in a pinch.  He is not a 4th liner, not even close.

PS25 isn't a spring chicken, but he can give you solid minutes at C, and is never a question about his presence in the locker room.  He can buy a year to get to...

CP91 is just a baby, and last year was pressed into service and produced above expectations (which were high).  No reason to think he isn't going to continue to develop...

Just saying, if the right pieces come back for MS55, the team CAN be better than it is now.  Yes, MS55 puts up a point a game, and that will be missed, but can those points be found elsewhere, and can the D game be tightened in his absence?

You just repeated what I said back to me, tbh.

None of what you said gives us a top tandem at C.

[Pigskin]

I say this with the caveat that he is a 4th liner on a team who uses all 4 lines.

I dreamed that this year we would have 4 lines with 55-80-25-17 down the centre. And then use all 4 lines more equally.

I don't have anything against AL17, I just want our 4th line to produce at that level.

4th line producing is a key.

[theaardvark]

MS55 has been a plus player most of his career. 2020/21 he was -4, 2021/22 -15. Now considering a lot of the Jets where minus players this year, I would say we need a new D system.

We didn't change our coaches/system in the last 5 years... players change over time... do you expecting a player to be a + player all his career is reasonable?  If 2018-19 MS55 was guaranteed to show up in 2022-23, this isn't a discussion.  But if he continues to trend -4, -15, what is the next number?  That is my concern...

You just repeated what I said back to me, tbh.

None of what you said gives us a top tandem at C.

You can't have everything, we could have the top set of C next year, or we might have a middle of the pack one.  Again, it depends on what you get back for MS55.  He has a great contract in a demand position.  We need a top RW more than a 2nd line C.  PLD80, KC81 need a RW in their caliber.   If we can get that back for MS55, plus something else, maybe swap up on a Dman... the team is better.  On the ice. And who knows what happens off the ice.

4th line producing is a key.

Our prospects should be able to flesh out a very nice 4th line...

[Pigskin]

We didn't change our coaches/system in the last 5 years... players change over time... do you expecting a player to be a + player all his career is reasonable?  If 2018-19 MS55 was guaranteed to show up in 2022-23, this isn't a discussion.  But if he continues to trend -4, -15, what is the next number?  That is my concern...

You can't have everything, we could have the top set of C next year, or we might have a middle of the pack one.  Again, it depends on what you get back for MS55.  He has a great contract in a demand position.  We need a top RW more than a 2nd line C.  PLD80, KC81 need a RW in their caliber.   If we can get that back for MS55, plus something else, maybe swap up on a Dman... the team is better.  On the ice. And who knows what happens off the ice.

Our prospects should be able to flesh out a very nice 4th line...

Our prospects could do it this year, I can't see them doing it next year.

[Pigskin]

We didn't change our coaches/system in the last 5 years... players change over time... do you expecting a player to be a + player all his career is reasonable?  If 2018-19 MS55 was guaranteed to show up in 2022-23, this isn't a discussion.  But if he continues to trend -4, -15, what is the next number?  That is my concern...

You can't have everything, we could have the top set of C next year, or we might have a middle of the pack one.  Again, it depends on what you get back for MS55.  He has a great contract in a demand position.  We need a top RW more than a 2nd line C.  PLD80, KC81 need a RW in their caliber.   If we can get that back for MS55, plus something else, maybe swap up on a Dman... the team is better.  On the ice. And who knows what happens off the ice.

Our prospects should be able to flesh out a very nice 4th line...

I hate the +/- stat. But if you want to play that game.

PL80  5 years, career +8, 3 out of 5 years as a minus player.
KC81 6 years,  career -9, 4 out of 6 years a minus player. 
PS25 16 years, career +14, has had 6 minus years.
MS55  9 years, career +62, has had only 2 minus years.

KC81 is a career minus player who has played under these coaches and this system his whole career and your telling me it isn't the system?? or the coaches? PL80 2 minus years after coming to the Jets. Nope, it can't be the system or the coaches.

[blue_gold_84]

Did you watch last season, or the IIHF tournament?  PLD80 is ready for #1C...

Last season he further cemented his ability to be 2C based on his production and time.

Imagine thinking playing well at a IIHF tournament matters in terms of the NHL. LOL

I'm just relieved you have absolutely no say whatsoever in what the organization does.

[theaardvark]

Last season he further cemented his ability to be 2C based on his production and time.

Imagine thinking playing well at a IIHF tournament matters in terms of the NHL. LOL

I'm just relieved you have absolutely no say whatsoever in what the organization does.

I'm not sure what a player does to "cement" a spot as a 2C.   Putting PLD80 on a line with KC81 and either BW26 or a better RW, you don't think he's put up similar numbers to MS55, without the horrendous -/+? 

#2C on this team could get a spot with NS27 and BW26, making it very easy to put up numbers.  PS25 could easily do that another year, he put up 45 points with a +14 and 56.6% FOW. 

AL17 as a 3rd line C with PK duties (scored a Shorty last night again) is a pretty solid player, and maybe improves without his Dad behind the bench.

And coming up... CP91, we really haven't seen him at C yet, but in case of injury, I can see him slotting into any C spot needed.

So, if they find a taker for MS55 in which we get back a top RW and a top 4 RH D (maybe package a D prospect back), how does that not make this team better? 

We parted with Roslovic and Copp  because they had no place here with our C group, having better options on the roster.  The wild card remains CP91, but all indications point to him being a gooder, and unafraid to step in on a top line.  IF they can resign PS25 (and I can't see why he wouldn't love to stay and play with BW26 and NE27), you end up with no place to play PLD80.  You are not trading him, ever, so the obvious play is to move MS55, who hasn't committed to the Jets by any means, who's recent exit interview puts the Me in Team, and is presently at a highest value you will get for him, on a team friendly contract with good point production.

The last item to consider, MS55 never returned to the lineup after his "upper body" injury suffered near the end of the season.  We no idea how it affected him, or if there are and lingering effects.

Opportune time to deal a "pig in a poke" as it were...

Possible toxic locker room issues aside, I'm just saying that no player is a team, Gretzky got traded, twice.  If you are going to trade a player, you trade when you can realize your best return.  If we enter the season and MS55 decides he doesn't like the direction we've charted, we will be lucky to get a fraction of the value we can get draft day.  Getting a top RW and a top 4 RD would set our roster better than it has ever been, IMHO.