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Author Topic: Winnipeg Jets Discussion - 2021/2022 Season  (Read 68808 times)
blue_gold_84
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« Reply #915 on: May 22, 2022, 05:35:30 AM »

Did you watch last season, or the IIHF tournament?  PLD80 is ready for #1C...

Last season he further cemented his ability to be 2C based on his production and time.

Imagine thinking playing well at a IIHF tournament matters in terms of the NHL. LOL Cheesy

I'm just relieved you have absolutely no say whatsoever in what the organization does.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #916 on: May 22, 2022, 03:30:19 PM »

Last season he further cemented his ability to be 2C based on his production and time.

Imagine thinking playing well at a IIHF tournament matters in terms of the NHL. LOL Cheesy

I'm just relieved you have absolutely no say whatsoever in what the organization does.

I'm not sure what a player does to "cement" a spot as a 2C.   Putting PLD80 on a line with KC81 and either BW26 or a better RW, you don't think he's put up similar numbers to MS55, without the horrendous -/+? 

#2C on this team could get a spot with NS27 and BW26, making it very easy to put up numbers.  PS25 could easily do that another year, he put up 45 points with a +14 and 56.6% FOW. 

AL17 as a 3rd line C with PK duties (scored a Shorty last night again) is a pretty solid player, and maybe improves without his Dad behind the bench.

And coming up... CP91, we really haven't seen him at C yet, but in case of injury, I can see him slotting into any C spot needed.

So, if they find a taker for MS55 in which we get back a top RW and a top 4 RH D (maybe package a D prospect back), how does that not make this team better? 

We parted with Roslovic and Copp  because they had no place here with our C group, having better options on the roster.  The wild card remains CP91, but all indications point to him being a gooder, and unafraid to step in on a top line.  IF they can resign PS25 (and I can't see why he wouldn't love to stay and play with BW26 and NE27), you end up with no place to play PLD80.  You are not trading him, ever, so the obvious play is to move MS55, who hasn't committed to the Jets by any means, who's recent exit interview puts the Me in Team, and is presently at a highest value you will get for him, on a team friendly contract with good point production.

The last item to consider, MS55 never returned to the lineup after his "upper body" injury suffered near the end of the season.  We no idea how it affected him, or if there are and lingering effects.

Opportune time to deal a "pig in a poke" as it were...

Possible toxic locker room issues aside, I'm just saying that no player is a team, Gretzky got traded, twice.  If you are going to trade a player, you trade when you can realize your best return.  If we enter the season and MS55 decides he doesn't like the direction we've charted, we will be lucky to get a fraction of the value we can get draft day.  Getting a top RW and a top 4 RD would set our roster better than it has ever been, IMHO.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #917 on: May 22, 2022, 07:32:51 PM »

MS55 didn't return to the team for the same reason CP91 didn't. The Jets had no chance to make the playoffs, so why rush someone back in the line up.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #918 on: May 22, 2022, 09:41:37 PM »

I'm not sure what a player does to "cement" a spot as a 2C.   Putting PLD80 on a line with KC81 and either BW26 or a better RW, you don't think he's put up similar numbers to MS55, without the horrendous -/+?

#2C on this team could get a spot with NS27 and BW26, making it very easy to put up numbers.  PS25 could easily do that another year, he put up 45 points with a +14 and 56.6% FOW.

AL17 as a 3rd line C with PK duties (scored a Shorty last night again) is a pretty solid player, and maybe improves without his Dad behind the bench.

And coming up... CP91, we really haven't seen him at C yet, but in case of injury, I can see him slotting into any C spot needed.

So, if they find a taker for MS55 in which we get back a top RW and a top 4 RH D (maybe package a D prospect back), how does that not make this team better?

We parted with Roslovic and Copp  because they had no place here with our C group, having better options on the roster.  The wild card remains CP91, but all indications point to him being a gooder, and unafraid to step in on a top line.  IF they can resign PS25 (and I can't see why he wouldn't love to stay and play with BW26 and NE27), you end up with no place to play PLD80.  You are not trading him, ever, so the obvious play is to move MS55, who hasn't committed to the Jets by any means, who's recent exit interview puts the Me in Team, and is presently at a highest value you will get for him, on a team friendly contract with good point production.

The last item to consider, MS55 never returned to the lineup after his "upper body" injury suffered near the end of the season.  We no idea how it affected him, or if there are and lingering effects.

Opportune time to deal a "pig in a poke" as it were...

Possible toxic locker room issues aside, I'm just saying that no player is a team, Gretzky got traded, twice.  If you are going to trade a player, you trade when you can realize your best return.  If we enter the season and MS55 decides he doesn't like the direction we've charted, we will be lucky to get a fraction of the value we can get draft day.  Getting a top RW and a top 4 RD would set our roster better than it has ever been, IMHO.

Of course you're unsure; your hockey knowledge seems questionable at best. Hence all the ridiculous claims, hyperbole, conjecture, and other outlandish suggestions you've shared in this thread, your above comments being yet another such example.

It's simple, though: a player cements his role based on his production and other metrics. In this case of Dubois, he put together a strong 2021-22 season to cement his role at 2C going into the 2022-23 season.

And no, there is nothing to suggest a top line of 81-80-(XX) would result in Dubois producing better than Scheifele. Scheifele has been a PPG forward for six consecutive seasons and has averaged over 21 mins. of ice time over that span. It's a baseless assumption that Dubois can supplant Scheifele and even match his production, much less outperform him. You don't manage a roster based on personal dislike, what ifs, projected stats, or a young player like Perfetti being a "wild card" or "gooder" based on 18 games played. There's no logic in any of that.

As for Scheifele's injury, you're just reaching. If his injury had been serious or career-threatening, we'd know by now. Moreover, he was skating with the team prior to the season ending and there was no point in playing him with the team being eliminated or at least close to it. So, there goes your absurd theory.

We get it: you despise Mark Scheifele and think the team will be better without him. However, you're totally incapable of presenting any evidence to substantiate the latter claim with any objective reasoning, based ostensibly on the former emotionally biased and highly subjective stance you've taken.

Trading away a proven 1C for a winger and a defenseman and then claiming the roster would be better is laughable. And besides, Scheifele has already stated he doesn't want to be traded, anyway. Now isn't that the time to play fantasy GM because "Scheifele bad" according to you.

Again: I'm relieved you have no say in what the organization does with its personnel.

PS - it's still hilarious how much you prattle on about Scheifele's +/- while flat out ignoring the +/- of other players you like more who are also minus. Cheesy
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theaardvark
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« Reply #919 on: May 22, 2022, 09:42:26 PM »

MS55 didn't return to the team for the same reason CP91 didn't. The Jets had no chance to make the playoffs, so why rush someone back in the line up.

Not my point.  I'm saying we don't know where "his head is at" on the ice, since he did not "get a chance" to return... can anyone guarantee he will be 100%?
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theaardvark
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« Reply #920 on: May 22, 2022, 10:56:51 PM »

Of course you're unsure; your hockey knowledge seems questionable at best. Hence all the ridiculous claims, hyperbole, conjecture, and other outlandish suggestions you've shared in this thread, your above comments being yet another such example.

It's simple, though: a player cements his role based on his production and other metrics. In this case of Dubois, he put together a strong 2021-22 season to cement his role at 2C going into the 2022-23 season.

And no, there is nothing to suggest a top line of 81-80-(XX) would result in Dubois producing better than Scheifele. Scheifele has been a PPG forward for six consecutive seasons and has averaged over 21 mins. of ice time over that span. It's a baseless assumption that Dubois can supplant Scheifele and even match his production, much less outperform him. You don't manage a roster based on personal dislike, what ifs, projected stats, or a young player like Perfetti being a "wild card" or "gooder" based on 18 games played. There's no logic in any of that.

As for Scheifele's injury, you're just reaching. If his injury had been serious or career-threatening, we'd know by now. Moreover, he was skating with the team prior to the season ending and there was no point in playing him with the team being eliminated or at least close to it. So, there goes your absurd theory.

We get it: you despise Mark Scheifele and think the team will be better without him. However, you're totally incapable of presenting any evidence to substantiate the latter claim with any objective reasoning, based ostensibly on the former emotionally biased and highly subjective stance you've taken.

Trading away a proven 1C for a winger and a defenseman and then claiming the roster would be better is laughable. And besides, Scheifele has already stated he doesn't want to be traded, anyway. Now isn't that the time to play fantasy GM because "Scheifele bad" according to you.

Again: I'm relieved you have no say in what the organization does with its personnel.

PS - it's still hilarious how much you prattle on about Scheifele's +/- while flat out ignoring the +/- of other players you like more who are also minus. Cheesy

Did you listen to the exit interview?  Your statement is correct, no trade was requested.  But "We'll have to see what's best for my career" is NOT "I don't want to be traded". 

A guy wearing the "A" on a team, who has 2 years left on a deal, should not be saying the things MS55 said.  Whether what he said is true or not, matters not.  What he said hurt the team, hurt his team mates who ARE committed to the team and whatever direction is taken, and hurt many of the fans that were hoping for a positive spin from him.  Only one player under contract even mentioned that his career path takes precedent over the team direction.

Do you understand my concern?  A player, who had legitimate defensive shortcomings that are trending worse, who, to his credit, has 
said he needs to get better, has expressed concerns about the direction the team he has had a leadership role on is taking. 

Do you think he will be enthused if we get a Trotz or Deboer to coach this team?  Do you think that, should they sign Dubois to 8 years $8.5 mil to be a "cemented 2c", he's not going to be upset with his remaining 2 years at $6mil? 

I'm just saying "all things considered", moving MS55 should be something in the mix.  *Especially" if we can fill *two* big holes (top RW and top 4 RHD).   

And its not that MS55 is a - player.  It is that he is the highest - on the team by a considerable margin over everyone except BW26 (-15), a whopping -17 on a team with a -5 goal differential.  That is an alarming stat for a guy that has been a + player most of his career.  What changed this year and last, specifically for him?  Why is he trending so badly?  Do we want to watch him play to a -30 next year?  Or repeat a -17? 

The dropoff from MS55, PLD80, AL17, CP91  to PLD80, PS25, AL17, CP91 is not horrendous, and if that change nets us a RW better than BW26 and a RHD better than Demelo, how are we not better off?

At this point in time, we have to decide, is MS55 our top C for the future, or is it PLD80.  Because in 2 years, if we keep MS55 and bridge PLD80, both will be UFA and we could lose both of them with nothing coming back.

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Pigskin
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« Reply #921 on: May 23, 2022, 02:39:40 AM »

Not my point.  I'm saying we don't know where "his head is at" on the ice, since he did not "get a chance" to return... can anyone guarantee he will be 100%?


Well if he's not 100%, you can kiss your trade MS55 campaign out the window.
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« Reply #922 on: May 23, 2022, 03:36:40 AM »

Jets Centric Podcast
@JetsCentric
4h
BREAKING: Barry Trotz will be named the next Head Coach of the Winnipeg Jets on Tuesday, league sources tell the Jets Centric Podcast
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« Reply #923 on: May 23, 2022, 11:33:00 AM »

Jets Centric Podcast
@JetsCentric
4h
BREAKING: Barry Trotz will be named the next Head Coach of the Winnipeg Jets on Tuesday, league sources tell the Jets Centric Podcast

You forgot the hands over mouth emjoi that was also included in the tweet. Sportsnet reported Trotz is meeting with Philly this week so this is not a real rumour and it's not from a reputable source.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #924 on: May 23, 2022, 12:10:12 PM »

Jets Centric Podcast
@JetsCentric
4h
BREAKING: Barry Trotz will be named the next Head Coach of the Winnipeg Jets on Tuesday, league sources tell the Jets Centric Podcast

Very good news for the Jets, if true. 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 10:17:29 PM by Pigskin » Logged

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theaardvark
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« Reply #925 on: May 23, 2022, 12:46:53 PM »

Jets Centric Podcast
@JetsCentric
4h
BREAKING: Barry Trotz will be named the next Head Coach of the Winnipeg Jets on Tuesday, league sources tell the Jets Centric Podcast

Unfortunately, there is zero support for this tweet from any informed sources...  were there any truth to it, it would hve been confirmed within hours by reporters with actual sources.  That Trotz seems to have scheduled interviews in Phily and even Vegas counters this assertion.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #926 on: May 23, 2022, 04:36:43 PM »


Did you listen to the exit interview?  Your statement is correct, no trade was requested.  But "We'll have to see what's best for my career" is NOT "I don't want to be traded". 

A guy wearing the "A" on a team, who has 2 years left on a deal, should not be saying the things MS55 said.  Whether what he said is true or not, matters not.  What he said hurt the team, hurt his team mates who ARE committed to the team and whatever direction is taken, and hurt many of the fans that were hoping for a positive spin from him.  Only one player under contract even mentioned that his career path takes precedent over the team direction.

Do you understand my concern?  A player, who had legitimate defensive shortcomings that are trending worse, who, to his credit, has 
said he needs to get better, has expressed concerns about the direction the team he has had a leadership role on is taking. 

Do you think he will be enthused if we get a Trotz or Deboer to coach this team?  Do you think that, should they sign Dubois to 8 years $8.5 mil to be a "cemented 2c", he's not going to be upset with his remaining 2 years at $6mil? 

I'm just saying "all things considered", moving MS55 should be something in the mix.  *Especially" if we can fill *two* big holes (top RW and top 4 RHD).  

And its not that MS55 is a - player.  It is that he is the highest - on the team by a considerable margin over everyone except BW26 (-15), a whopping -17 on a team with a -5 goal differential.  That is an alarming stat for a guy that has been a + player most of his career.  What changed this year and last, specifically for him?  Why is he trending so badly?  Do we want to watch him play to a -30 next year?  Or repeat a -17? 

The dropoff from MS55, PLD80, AL17, CP91  to PLD80, PS25, AL17, CP91 is not horrendous, and if that change nets us a RW better than BW26 and a RHD better than Demelo, how are we not better off?

At this point in time, we have to decide, is MS55 our top C for the future, or is it PLD80.  Because in 2 years, if we keep MS55 and bridge PLD80, both will be UFA and we could lose both of them with nothing coming back.

Did you? You're just making things up now and then claiming what it did to the team despite actually not knowing. You're so fixated on your dislike of him you have to make fabrications to keep your feeble narrative on life support. The mental gymnastics never end and you just grasp at nonsense to justify your biased takes.

Weird - but unsurprising - how you continue to crap on Scheifele for his comments but gushed over Dubois making similar comments a few weeks earlier, even going so far as to label him a leader in doing so. Slightly different wording is apparently enough to mislead you despite the similarly underlying message by either player.

You don't strengthen a roster by deleting its 1C and adding a top 6 winger and top 4 defender. Full stop. (in the event the Jets were to trade Scheifele, they'd need to get at least a top 6 centre in return to justify the trade)

How many more times are you going to parade his +/- stat in this thread while ignoring other players who were also minus? And the team goal differential doesn't help your argument, BTW. On the contrary, it speaks to a team issue related to team defense and how poorly they played away from the puck.

At this point, Scheifele is the team's best centre even in spite of his lacklustre defensive play. The Jets are fortunate to have both him and Dubois as their 1C and 2C, respectively. It's not an either or no matter how many times you want to make that claim or spin their contracts or potential contracts as some point of contention between the two. If Dubois doesn't sign a long-term deal, I'm sure you'll find a way to blame Scheifele.

I'll say it for the last time, as I'm done engaging in this painfully absurd discussion: I'm relieved you have no say in what the Jets do with its players.

Jets Centric Podcast
@JetsCentric
4h
BREAKING: Barry Trotz will be named the next Head Coach of the Winnipeg Jets on Tuesday, league sources tell the Jets Centric Podcast

Oof. LOL Cheesy
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theaardvark
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« Reply #927 on: May 23, 2022, 05:47:31 PM »

Did you? You're just making things up now and then claiming what it did to the team despite actually not knowing. You're so fixated on your dislike of him you have to make fabrications to keep your feeble narrative on life support. The mental gymnastics never end and you just grasp at nonsense to justify your biased takes.

Weird - but unsurprising - how you continue to crap on Scheifele for his comments but gushed over Dubois making similar comments a few weeks earlier, even going so far as to label him a leader in doing so. Slightly different wording is apparently enough to mislead you despite the similarly underlying message by either player.

You don't strengthen a roster by deleting its 1C and adding a top 6 winger and top 4 defender. Full stop. (in the event the Jets were to trade Scheifele, they'd need to get at least a top 6 centre in return to justify the trade)

How many more times are you going to parade his +/- stat in this thread while ignoring other players who were also minus? And the team goal differential doesn't help your argument, BTW. On the contrary, it speaks to a team issue related to team defense and how poorly they played away from the puck.

At this point, Scheifele is the team's best centre even in spite of his lacklustre defensive play. The Jets are fortunate to have both him and Dubois as their 1C and 2C, respectively. It's not an either or no matter how many times you want to make that claim or spin their contracts or potential contracts as some point of contention between the two. If Dubois doesn't sign a long-term deal, I'm sure you'll find a way to blame Scheifele.

I'll say it for the last time, as I'm done engaging in this painfully absurd discussion: I'm relieved you have no say in what the Jets do with its players.

Oof. LOL Cheesy

Besides MS55 -17 and BW26 -15, want to reel off the other (-) players on he team?  KC81 was -3, PLD80 -6, KV93 and JH12 -8...   

But, if the team system was so bad, how does NE27 end up +18?  Or PS25 end up +14? 

Again, no hate for MS55, more a disappointment.  And no, his comments were different than PLD80, his comments were about "what is best for my career" even though his career is 2 more years under contract with the Jets, and presently wearing an "A", and PLD80 is an RFA without contract  as of July 1.   Two completely different standpoints to comment from, yet it seemed like their status was reversed.  It sounded like MS55 was weighing his option for entering free agency.

Every player on this team is an asset, and getting the most out of each asset is a GM's job.  If MS55 is unhappy (which his exit interview seemed to suggest without declaring "I want a trade") then his highest value will be with term left on a team friendly deal, and before he formally demands a trade.

Asset management is what I am addressing.  There are a few RW coming on the FA market, but they will be pricey.  We have a sod replacement C available at what will be a reasonable price in PS25 should we trade MS55.  And I would not suggest trading MS55 for a top 6 forward and a top 4 D, it would be a minimum of a top RW and a top 4 RH D.  A RW better than BW26 and a D as good as or better than Pionk, and better than Demelo.  That, IMHO, is good value for MS55.  An offer of a RW that was not as good as BW26 would not even start the conversation.

And as much as you deny that their contracts are not connected, the MS55 and PLD80 contracts are very much dependent on each other, just as any team's top 2 C's are related.  If PLD80 has designs on being a #1C in the league, if he thinks MS55 is getting an extension here past the final 2 years on his deal, he will think twice about signing long term.  Likewise, if the team commits 8 years to PLD80 at 33% more than MS55 is getting, MS55 will likely ask for a trade, if not publicly, then privately. 

If we bridge PLD80, and have to find the $$$ to sign him again in 2 years, its going to be at a higher price than an 8 year deal now, and there will not be $$$ for MS55, which means you end up either trading him before the 23-24 playoffs if you are a seller, or losing him for nothing summer of 24. 

I just don't see a scenario of having MS55 and PD80 on this roster starting 2024-2025 season, and the optimal utilization of the assets would be getting a top RW and a top 4 RH D back for MS55 (or PLD80 if you think MS55 is the better long term asset) right now.   
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« Reply #928 on: May 23, 2022, 06:21:54 PM »

You're talking about #1C like it's a Quarterback and there's only one starter.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #929 on: May 24, 2022, 02:46:07 PM »

Jets Centric Podcast
@JetsCentric
4h
BREAKING: Barry Trotz will be named the next Head Coach of the Winnipeg Jets on Tuesday, league sources tell the Jets Centric Podcast

Rod Pedersen@rodpedersen

From the Barry Trotz camp: NO truth to the rumours he?s joining the @NHLJets
 and don?t know where they came from.
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