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Author Topic: Winnipeg Jets Discussion - 2021/2022 Season  (Read 78687 times)
theaardvark
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« Reply #900 on: May 20, 2022, 04:08:42 PM »

Who's a "more checking style" centre available who can take the 1C spot? There's also no data to suggest Dubois is ready for that spot, either.

Bold assumption, though. And even bolder of you to assume the Jets win a lot of games next season based on nothing more than point totals down the middle. Scoring hasn't been an issue for this team; it's been defending and preventing scoring against.

Did you watch last season, or the IIHF tournament?  PLD80 is ready for #1C...  

One key to trading MS55 is re-signing PS25, which will not be hard to do.  AL17, CP91 and a plethora of prospects at C ae champing at the bit to move up.  Two years ago, with PL29 instead of PLD80 on the roster, no.  But now, it will depend on if the new coach is on board with keeping MS55 or is OK with moving on from him... and I guess it also depends on whether MS55 is on board with the coach they choose... which might not be the case if they land Trotz
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Jesse
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« Reply #901 on: May 20, 2022, 04:12:12 PM »

Did you watch last season, or the IIHF tournament?  PLD80 is ready for #1C...  

One key to trading MS55 is re-signing PS25, which will not be hard to do.  AL17, CP91 and a plethora of prospects at C ae champing at the bit to move up.  Two years ago, with PL29 instead of PLD80 on the roster, no.  But now, it will depend on if the new coach is on board with keeping MS55 or is OK with moving on from him... and I guess it also depends on whether MS55 is on board with the coach they choose... which might not be the case if they land Trotz


We need more than just PLD. There isn't enough on the team without him.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #902 on: May 20, 2022, 04:16:57 PM »

We need more than just PLD. There isn't enough on the team without him.

Which is why PS25 re-signing is important if MS55 is moved...

AL17 is a solid 3c that can move up if needed, and CP91 showed a lot of ability to possibly be the #2c and still have upside. 

Having a C corps of PLD80, PS25, AL17 and CP91 + prospects is not a bad lineup... especially if we get a top RW and/or D back for MS55...
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Jesse
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« Reply #903 on: May 20, 2022, 04:42:41 PM »

I 100% disagree and think our team takes a serious step back if that's what we're sending out there.

AL17 is a 4th liner

PS25 is a good vet presence to have, but is not going to continue as a top tandem option at C. He's a complimentary piece.

CP91 is a child who we hope get some good development this year.

I am a huge PLD fan, but you need to be 4 centres deep, and we finally have 2 now that we've aquired PLD, we're not going back to just having 1.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #904 on: May 20, 2022, 04:44:27 PM »

Which is why PS25 re-signing is important if MS55 is moved...

AL17 is a solid 3c that can move up if needed, and CP91 showed a lot of ability to possibly be the #2c and still have upside. 

Having a C corps of PLD80, PS25, AL17 and CP91 + prospects is not a bad lineup... especially if we get a top RW and/or D back for MS55...

And the broken record keeping on turning. You just keep repeating yourself.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #905 on: May 20, 2022, 04:46:07 PM »

I 100% disagree and think our team takes a serious step back if that's what we're sending out there.

AL17 is a 4th liner

PS25 is a good vet presence to have, but is not going to continue as a top tandem option at C. He's a complimentary piece.

CP91 is a child who we hope get some good development this year.

I am a huge PLD fan, but you need to be 4 centres deep, and we finally have 2 now that we've aquired PLD, we're not going back to just having 1.

Totally agree. Except I think AL17 is a solid 3rd. line C.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 05:01:20 PM by Pigskin » Logged

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theaardvark
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« Reply #906 on: May 20, 2022, 04:50:13 PM »

I 100% disagree and think our team takes a serious step back if that's what we're sending out there.

AL17 is a 4th liner

PS25 is a good vet presence to have, but is not going to continue as a top tandem option at C. He's a complimentary piece.

CP91 is a child who we hope get some good development this year.

I am a huge PLD fan, but you need to be 4 centres deep, and we finally have 2 now that we've aquired PLD, we're not going back to just having 1.



AL17 is a SOLID 3rd C with huge PK ability and the ability to move up in a pinch.  He is not a 4th liner, not even close.

PS25 isn't a spring chicken, but he can give you solid minutes at C, and is never a question about his presence in the locker room.  He can buy a year to get to...

CP91 is just a baby, and last year was pressed into service and produced above expectations (which were high).  No reason to think he isn't going to continue to develop...

Just saying, if the right pieces come back for MS55, the team CAN be better than it is now.  Yes, MS55 puts up a point a game, and that will be missed, but can those points be found elsewhere, and can the D game be tightened in his absence?
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Pigskin
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« Reply #907 on: May 20, 2022, 05:13:47 PM »

MS55 has been a plus player most of his career. 2020/21 he was -4, 2021/22 -15. Now considering a lot of the Jets where minus players this year, I would say we need a new D system.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 05:28:01 PM by Pigskin » Logged

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Jesse
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« Reply #908 on: May 20, 2022, 05:24:49 PM »

Totally agree. Except I think AL17 is a solid 3rd. line C.

I say this with the caveat that he is a 4th liner on a team who uses all 4 lines.

I dreamed that this year we would have 4 lines with 55-80-25-17 down the centre. And then use all 4 lines more equally.

I don't have anything against AL17, I just want our 4th line to produce at that level.
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Jesse
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« Reply #909 on: May 20, 2022, 05:26:44 PM »



AL17 is a SOLID 3rd C with huge PK ability and the ability to move up in a pinch.  He is not a 4th liner, not even close.

PS25 isn't a spring chicken, but he can give you solid minutes at C, and is never a question about his presence in the locker room.  He can buy a year to get to...

CP91 is just a baby, and last year was pressed into service and produced above expectations (which were high).  No reason to think he isn't going to continue to develop...

Just saying, if the right pieces come back for MS55, the team CAN be better than it is now.  Yes, MS55 puts up a point a game, and that will be missed, but can those points be found elsewhere, and can the D game be tightened in his absence?


You just repeated what I said back to me, tbh.

None of what you said gives us a top tandem at C.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #910 on: May 20, 2022, 05:29:17 PM »

I say this with the caveat that he is a 4th liner on a team who uses all 4 lines.

I dreamed that this year we would have 4 lines with 55-80-25-17 down the centre. And then use all 4 lines more equally.

I don't have anything against AL17, I just want our 4th line to produce at that level.

4th line producing is a key.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 06:28:10 PM by Pigskin » Logged

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theaardvark
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« Reply #911 on: May 20, 2022, 07:44:15 PM »

MS55 has been a plus player most of his career. 2020/21 he was -4, 2021/22 -15. Now considering a lot of the Jets where minus players this year, I would say we need a new D system.

We didn't change our coaches/system in the last 5 years... players change over time... do you expecting a player to be a + player all his career is reasonable?  If 2018-19 MS55 was guaranteed to show up in 2022-23, this isn't a discussion.  But if he continues to trend -4, -15, what is the next number?  That is my concern...

You just repeated what I said back to me, tbh.

None of what you said gives us a top tandem at C.

You can't have everything, we could have the top set of C next year, or we might have a middle of the pack one.  Again, it depends on what you get back for MS55.  He has a great contract in a demand position.  We need a top RW more than a 2nd line C.  PLD80, KC81 need a RW in their caliber.   If we can get that back for MS55, plus something else, maybe swap up on a Dman... the team is better.  On the ice. And who knows what happens off the ice.

4th line producing is a key.

Our prospects should be able to flesh out a very nice 4th line...
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Pigskin
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« Reply #912 on: May 20, 2022, 08:08:25 PM »

We didn't change our coaches/system in the last 5 years... players change over time... do you expecting a player to be a + player all his career is reasonable?  If 2018-19 MS55 was guaranteed to show up in 2022-23, this isn't a discussion.  But if he continues to trend -4, -15, what is the next number?  That is my concern...

You can't have everything, we could have the top set of C next year, or we might have a middle of the pack one.  Again, it depends on what you get back for MS55.  He has a great contract in a demand position.  We need a top RW more than a 2nd line C.  PLD80, KC81 need a RW in their caliber.   If we can get that back for MS55, plus something else, maybe swap up on a Dman... the team is better.  On the ice. And who knows what happens off the ice.

Our prospects should be able to flesh out a very nice 4th line...

Our prospects could do it this year, I can't see them doing it next year.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #913 on: May 20, 2022, 08:40:11 PM »

We didn't change our coaches/system in the last 5 years... players change over time... do you expecting a player to be a + player all his career is reasonable?  If 2018-19 MS55 was guaranteed to show up in 2022-23, this isn't a discussion.  But if he continues to trend -4, -15, what is the next number?  That is my concern...

You can't have everything, we could have the top set of C next year, or we might have a middle of the pack one.  Again, it depends on what you get back for MS55.  He has a great contract in a demand position.  We need a top RW more than a 2nd line C.  PLD80, KC81 need a RW in their caliber.   If we can get that back for MS55, plus something else, maybe swap up on a Dman... the team is better.  On the ice. And who knows what happens off the ice.

Our prospects should be able to flesh out a very nice 4th line...

I hate the +/- stat. But if you want to play that game.

PL80  5 years, career +8, 3 out of 5 years as a minus player.
KC81 6 years,  career -9, 4 out of 6 years a minus player. 
PS25 16 years, career +14, has had 6 minus years.
MS55  9 years, career +62, has had only 2 minus years.

KC81 is a career minus player who has played under these coaches and this system his whole career and your telling me it isn't the system?? or the coaches? PL80 2 minus years after coming to the Jets. Nope, it can't be the system or the coaches.

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blue_gold_84
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For The W


« Reply #914 on: May 22, 2022, 05:35:30 AM »

Did you watch last season, or the IIHF tournament?  PLD80 is ready for #1C...

Last season he further cemented his ability to be 2C based on his production and time.

Imagine thinking playing well at a IIHF tournament matters in terms of the NHL. LOL Cheesy

I'm just relieved you have absolutely no say whatsoever in what the organization does.
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