Winnipeg Jets Discussion - 2021/2022 Season

[theaardvark]

A lot of piece. Okay, tell us who are those pieces? Other then your usual MS55 and BW26.

Everything above and including those two...

A better GM/Coach combo will do wonders with this roster.  Keep Stasny in the $3mil range, sign or get back in a trade a top six forward, and you can deal MS55/BW26 together... maybe to Chicago for Toews and a top prospect/DP's....

So you're saying Chevy should be fired because he didn't trade our captain and assistant captain.

Got it.

There are many reasons Chevy needs to go, he has made some awesome draft choices and larceny in some trades, but yeah, his being married to certain players/coaches has been at the detriment of the team. 

[Pigskin]

Everything above and including those two...

A better GM/Coach combo will do wonders with this roster.  Keep Stasny in the $3mil range, sign or get back in a trade a top six forward, and you can deal MS55/BW26 together... maybe to Chicago for Toews and a top prospect/DP's....

There are many reasons Chevy needs to go, he has made some awesome draft choices and larceny in some trades, but yeah, his being married to certain players/coaches has been at the detriment of the team. 

That's what I thought you really can't supply a list.

[theaardvark]

That's what I thought you really can't supply a list.

Pretty simple list... MS55, BW26 and the entire management and coaching staff.  Might retain the trainers and support staff, but coaches and management, buh bye.

[blue_or_die]

Everything above and including those two...

A better GM/Coach combo will do wonders with this roster.  Keep Stasny in the $3mil range, sign or get back in a trade a top six forward, and you can deal MS55/BW26 together... maybe to Chicago for Toews and a top prospect/DP's....

There are many reasons Chevy needs to go, he has made some awesome draft choices and larceny in some trades, but yeah, his being married to certain players/coaches has been at the detriment of the team. 

lol who has Chevy been married to? It's his job as a GM to sign players and he's done just that.

He has a perennial ~30 goal scorer and top C who he drafted and developed and another player who is the captain and earned a high-end, long term contract that was needed when we were trying to make the best of our window. You can criticize Scheifele for having an off-year (although not when you look at value-for-dollar) and Wheeler for being overpaid and over the hump but these are hardly horrible flubs.

Pigskin is right though, your entire argument is centred around your hate for Scheifele and Wheeler alone. Since you're such a +/- guy, that stat on Chevy is will over 0.

[blue_gold_84]

So you're saying Chevy should be fired because he didn't trade our captain and assistant captain.

Got it.

Comical stuff. Easily the most entertaining commentary concerning the Jets.

A better GM/Coach combo will do wonders with this roster.  Keep Stasny in the $3mil range, sign or get back in a trade a top six forward, and you can deal MS55/BW26 together... maybe to Chicago for Toews and a top prospect/DP's....

There are many reasons Chevy needs to go, he has made some awesome draft choices and larceny in some trades, but yeah, his being married to certain players/coaches has been at the detriment of the team. 

LOL

Where do you continue to come up with these ill-conceived, woefully misinformed, and utterly laughable suggestions?

Jonathan Toews...? The same Jonathan Toews who has 11 goals and 32 points in 65 games, sitting at -17 (because you love to point out the +/- of both Wheeler and Scheifele whenever you dump on them)? The same Jonathan Toews who is statistically inferior to both Wheeler and Scheifele? The same Jonathan Toews with a $10.5M cap hit for next season, higher than even Wheeler's? Not to mention his NMC that likely includes Winnipeg.

Did you even look into any of those specifics before you decided to share that absolutely terrible trade idea in this thread?

EDIT: I'll even do the work (because this is easy and fun).

Scheifele: $6.125M AAV, 67 GP, 29 G, 41 A, 70 P (1.04 PPG), -17, 23 PIM, 18.2 S%, 21:08 ATOI, 50.7 FO%
Toews: $10.5M AAV, 65 GP, 11 G, 21 A, 32 P (0.49 PPG), -17, 33 PIM, 9.5 S%, 17:30 ATOI, 58.7 FO%

Toews' only advantage is in the face-off circle. That is it. He's also five years older than Scheifele.

You irrationally claim Cheveldayoff is "married" to two players without any actual explanation, despite the fact it's the coaching staff who determines how players are deployed on a roster. No doubt he's missed on some roster moves and made some mistakes during his tenure, but the good far outweighs the bad when looked at objectively. No GM in the NHL has an unblemished record, anyway.

This ongoing emotionally charged, unobjectively sound narrative of seemingly nothing more than a dislike for Scheifele, Wheeler, and now Cheveldayoff continues to pollute this thread with its inanity.

Sure, the Jets have had a forgettable season but singling out a few big names is just lazy and quite frankly, ignorant. Do better.

He has a perennial ~30 goal scorer and top C who he drafted and developed and another player who is the captain and earned a high-end, long term contract that was needed when we were trying to make the best of our window. You can criticize Scheifele for having an off-year (although not when you look at value-for-dollar) and Wheeler for being overpaid and over the hump but these are hardly horrible flubs.

Pigskin is right though, your entire argument is centred around your hate for Scheifele and Wheeler alone. Since you're such a +/- guy, that stat on Chevy is will over 0.

Imagine thinking Toews is a better forward than Scheifele. LOL

[Pigskin]

Comical stuff. Easily the most entertaining commentary concerning the Jets:D

LOL

Where do you continue to come up with these ill-conceived, woefully misinformed, and utterly laughable suggestions?

Jonathan Toews...? The same Jonathan Toews who has 11 goals and 32 points in 65 games, sitting at -17 (because you love to point out the +/- of both Wheeler and Scheifele whenever you dump on them)? The same Jonathan Toews who is statistically inferior to both Wheeler and Scheifele? The same Jonathan Toews with a $10.5M cap hit for next season, higher than even Wheeler's? Not to mention his NMC that likely includes Winnipeg.

Did you even look into any of those specifics before you decided to share that absolutely terrible trade idea in this thread?

You irrationally claim Cheveldayoff is "married" to those two players without any actual explanation, despite the fact it's the coaching staff who determines how players are deployed on a roster. No doubt he's missed on some roster moves and made some mistakes during his tenure, but the good far outweighs the bad when looked at objectively. No GM in the NHL has an unblemished record, anyway.

This ongoing emotionally charged, unobjectively sound narrative of seemingly nothing more than a dislike for Scheifele, Wheeler, and now Cheveldayoff continues to pollute this thread with its inanity.

Sure, the Jets have had a forgettable season but singling out a few big names is just lazy and quite frankly, ignorant. Do better.

Imagine thinking Toews is a better forward than Scheifele. LOL

Now there's a bad trade. Aard's your fired. Take the trainer with you. No don't, he's a friend of mine.

[Jockitch]

Certainly had some very decent high scoring chances
However on replays, one can see, arm chair Senior eyes, some poor choices of where to put the puck --- course then there's Shesterkin

Felt Com had a very good night in goal, 25, 26, 27, 81 were pretty darn good but it wasn't the Jets night 

[theaardvark]

I missed the post game, but Dubois was apparently outspoken...  unhappy with the way the Jets are playing, pointing out how good teams play... and how the Jets play...


Mike McIntyre@mikemcintyrewpg
Here is the complete quote from an angry, frustrated Pierre-Luc Dubois tonight where he sings the praises of how good hockey teams play and contrasts it with what he's seen from his #NHLJets.

It's candid, quality stuff from the 23-year-old, who oozes leadership qualities.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQwUMmVWYAApDYz?format=png&name=medium



What's the old saying attributed erroneously to Einstein?  Keep doing the same stuff expecting different results..

Results need to be improved.

If the leaders can't lead and the coaches can't coach, them its the GM that put them there that needs to be changed as well...

I like the idea of a new team next year.

Dubois, Conner, Ehlers... Morrissey.. behind them the depth is pretty solid. 

Can MS55 and BW26 change?  Are they leading in a way purely created by the coaches, or are the coaches gameplanning to the players they have leading?  If the new GM thinks they can adapt to the new coach, then give them a  short leash to change course... but be ready to make big moves... 

We traded PL29 for PLD80... if he doesn't see cahnge coming, he's not going to hang around long... and he is a leader you can build around

Leaving anything above them status quo is doing the same thing expecting different results.

[blue_gold_84]

Both Wheeler and Scheifele, along with a myriad of other Jets players, have made similar comments after a loss - on numerous occasions. This is nothing new.

Being able to conduct an interview and share some thoughts with a less than mediocre sports writer after a game should not be over-analyzed as "quality stuff" or "oozing leadership qualities;" it's part of being a professional hockey player. There's nothing outspoken about it from any objective standpoint.

Furthermore, talking accounts for very little when it's not accompanied by action. His stat line last night: 2 SOG, -2, 19:41 TOI, 36.7 FO% - hardly leadership calibre numbers.

He should be unhappy, along with every other player facing the bitter reality hockey ends for them in less than two weeks.

If anyone thinks status quo will be followed after this failure of a season, they don't pay enough attention to this team.

[Pigskin]

Both Wheeler and Scheifele, along with a myriad of other Jets players, have made similar comments after a loss - on numerous occasions. This is nothing new.

Being able to conduct an interview and share some thoughts with a less than mediocre sports writer after a game should not be over-analyzed as "quality stuff" or "oozing leadership qualities;" it's part of being a professional hockey player. There's nothing outspoken about it from any objective standpoint.

Furthermore, talking accounts for very little when it's not accompanied by action. His stat line last night: 2 SOG, -2, 19:41 TOI, 36.7 FO% - hardly leadership calibre numbers.

He should be unhappy, along with every other player facing the bitter reality hockey ends for them in less than two weeks.

If anyone thinks status quo will be followed after this failure of a season, they don't pay enough attention to this team.

Yes talking leaders, PL80 in the last three games, -4, and 1A. JM44 -5, 1A.

[theaardvark]

Both Wheeler and Scheifele, along with a myriad of other Jets players, have made similar comments after a loss - on numerous occasions. This is nothing new.

Yes, you are correct.  The big difference is, they have had a long time to lead the change, but instead, got a coach to actually quit on the team.  He didn't quit because of the play of our fourth line, or Conner, or Dubois, or Ehlers.  His "leadership group" was BW26 and MS55.  And he could not win with them.  Saddling a new coach with a problem that caused a beloved and veteran coach to actually quit mid season AND mid contract, who will you attract for THAT position?  

Give the new coach a blank slate, let him choose his "C" and "A" without pre existing expectations.  Sure, MS55 is a point a game, and BW26 has the heart of an ox, but they have consistently failed to perform the one vital task a leader has to.  Win, and rally the team behind them.  The fact that "a myriad of Jets players" have made similar comments proves my point, not yours.  Every one of those comments points to leadership's performance.  

In My Humble Opinion, the only way to take this to the next level is to make a change now, maybe take a step backwards, sure, but rather than wait for BW26 to become the next Andrew Ladd, and while we can get a return on MS55's contract, make the tough move now.

We need to Marie Kondo this team, remove the things that do not spark joy.  We need to remove familiar things to make room for new growth and new favourites. 

If anyone thinks status quo will be followed after this failure of a season, they don't pay enough attention to this team.

If there is no change in leadership, we get status quo.  A new coach will make a difference, but any new coach inherits the ghost of disappointments past if he has to use the same lineup and has the same GM.

Clearing house when replacing the coach gives the new guy a fighting chance.  Changing the on ice face of the team gives the new coach a chance to build without past failures haunting him.  

Yes talking leaders, PL80 in the last three games, -4, and 1A. JM44 -5, 1A.

Wow, an *I* was accused of cherrypicking stats...   

BW26  1G -8
MS55   0P -0 (did not play)

So, MS55 was the most productive player of all... by not playing. Nice.

[Pigskin]

Yes, you are correct.  The big difference is, they have had a long time to lead the change, but instead, got a coach to actually quit on the team.  He didn't quit because of the play of our fourth line, or Conner, or Dubois, or Ehlers.  His "leadership group" was BW26 and MS55.  And he could not win with them.  Saddling a new coach with a problem that caused a beloved and veteran coach to actually quit mid season AND mid contract, who will you attract for THAT position?  

Give the new coach a blank slate, let him choose his "C" and "A" without pre existing expectations.  Sure, MS55 is a point a game, and BW26 has the heart of an ox, but they have consistently failed to perform the one vital task a leader has to.  Win, and rally the team behind them.  The fact that "a myriad of Jets players" have made similar comments proves my point, not yours.  Every one of those comments points to leadership's performance.  

In My Humble Opinion, the only way to take this to the next level is to make a change now, maybe take a step backwards, sure, but rather than wait for BW26 to become the next Andrew Ladd, and while we can get a return on MS55's contract, make the tough move now.

We need to Marie Kondo this team, remove the things that do not spark joy.  We need to remove familiar things to make room for new growth and new favourites. 


If there is no change in leadership, we get status quo.  A new coach will make a difference, but any new coach inherits the ghost of disappointments past if he has to use the same lineup and has the same GM.

Clearing house when replacing the coach gives the new guy a fighting chance.  Changing the on ice face of the team gives the new coach a chance to build without past failures haunting him.  

Wow, an *I* was accused of cherrypicking stats...   

BW26  1G -8
MS55   0P -0 (did not play)

So, MS55 was the most productive player of all... by not playing. Nice.

You were talking the new leaders. These are two of the guys you were talking about. Not BW26.

[blue_gold_84]

Yes, you are correct.  The big difference is, they have had a long time to lead the change, but instead, got a coach to actually quit on the team.  He didn't quit because of the play of our fourth line, or Conner, or Dubois, or Ehlers.  His "leadership group" was BW26 and MS55.  And he could not win with them.  Saddling a new coach with a problem that caused a beloved and veteran coach to actually quit mid season AND mid contract, who will you attract for THAT position?  

Give the new coach a blank slate, let him choose his "C" and "A" without pre existing expectations.  Sure, MS55 is a point a game, and BW26 has the heart of an ox, but they have consistently failed to perform the one vital task a leader has to.  Win, and rally the team behind them.  The fact that "a myriad of Jets players" have made similar comments proves my point, not yours.  Every one of those comments points to leadership's performance.  

In My Humble Opinion, the only way to take this to the next level is to make a change now, maybe take a step backwards, sure, but rather than wait for BW26 to become the next Andrew Ladd, and while we can get a return on MS55's contract, make the tough move now.

We need to Marie Kondo this team, remove the things that do not spark joy.  We need to remove familiar things to make room for new growth and new favourites. 

If there is no change in leadership, we get status quo.  A new coach will make a difference, but any new coach inherits the ghost of disappointments past if he has to use the same lineup and has the same GM.

Clearing house when replacing the coach gives the new guy a fighting chance.  Changing the on ice face of the team gives the new coach a chance to build without past failures haunting him.  

Wow, an *I* was accused of cherrypicking stats...   

BW26  1G -8
MS55   0P -0 (did not play)

So, MS55 was the most productive player of all... by not playing. Nice.

And the mental gymnastics continue. The Marie Kondo remarks... *chef's kiss*

As if you're trying to pretend you know why Maurice resigned and then spew falsehoods about what happened. Have a read: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/winnipeg-jets-head-coach-paul-maurice-resigns/

He didn't just "quit on the team" if you'd bothered to pay attention when he did step down back in December. And he explained pretty much everything regarding his decision to resign, one he didn't make lightly or rashly. Your lame attempt to frame it otherwise to suit your deformed opinions is pretty disrespectful. I'm surprised you didn't blame him for ruining Scheifele again.

But of course you blame just Wheeler and Scheifele - way to be consistent with your irrational dislike. It's weird how you'll exclude Morrissey from the leadership group and give him and everyone else a pass for an entire team struggling more often than not this season. And just so you know, letters on jerseys aren't the be-all end-all of leadership on a hockey team. It's far more complex than any of the trivialized narratives you've been peddling in this thread. And somehow, according to you, Dubois is the best leader on the team despite any evidence to back up that claim. But at least he interviews like a leader, right? Oof.

The fact that you'd pin an entire team's failings on just two players really speaks to the ignorance on display here, not to mention a total lack of understanding of the complexities and intricacies of professional hockey. Your feigned admiration for either Scheifele or Wheeler is as transparent as glass based on the vitriol you've directed at both in this thread, so why even bother making disingenuous remarks?

It's hilarious how you're so steadfast in your ridiculous suggestion to move two players but then contradict yourself with the "maybe it's a step backwards" line. The self-owns just keep on comin'!

Remember when you made the comparison to Ladd before and it got shot down faster than a Russian helicopter in Ukraine? As if you just brought that up again... Another self-own!

You need to figure out what status quo means because you're not using it properly.

And yes, you were justifiably accused of cherry-picking because you did just that in your attacks on certain players while defending others. It's one of more than a few logical fallacies you've committed in this thread over the course of the season.

"Clearing" house isn't needed; the Jets don't need to rebuild. They need a new coaching staff, a new system, and a few pieces to fill out the roster depending on how the UFA situation shakes out.

The bolded part of that meandering commentary is nonsense and I think you know that. Why even make it?

You were talking the new leaders. These are two of the guys you were talking about. Not BW26.

A: "Look at the +/- of those two players I don't like!"
everyone else: "Look at the +/- of those players you do like!"
A: "No, not like that!"

LOL

[theaardvark]

You were talking the new leaders. These are two of the guys you were talking about. Not BW26.

In the three games you quote, no one was a +.  No one.

Player     G   A   +/-
MA22       0    1    0
JH12       0    0     0
NE27       1    1    -1
AL17       0   1     -1
KC81      1    1    -2
ZS12       0    0    -2
NS88      0    0    -2
NP4        0      2    -3
BD5        0     0    -3
PS25       1      1    -4
PLD80     1      1    -4
MB36      0      0    -7
BW26      1      0    -8

I have been a MS55 and BW26 fan in the past, and I do not discount that they have talent / ability.  I just think if we are going to make changes, if we are going to have a completely new coaching staff, now is the ideal time to turn the keys over to the new guard. 

Start fresh.  Because if they stumble out of the blocks next season... what do you do?

[Pigskin]

In the three games you quote, no one was a +.  No one.

Player     G   A   +/-
MA22       0    1    0
JH12       0    0     0
NE27       1    1    -1
AL17       0   1     -1
KC81      1    1    -2
ZS12       0    0    -2
NS88      0    0    -2
NP4        0      2    -3
BD5        0     0    -3
PS25       1      1    -4
PLD80     1      1    -4
MB36      0      0    -7
BW26      1      0    -8

I have been a MS55 and BW26 fan in the past, and I do not discount that they have talent / ability.  I just think if we are going to make changes, if we are going to have a completely new coaching staff, now is the ideal time to turn the keys over to the new guard. 

Start fresh.  Because if they stumble out of the blocks next season... what do you do?

OMG. This record just keeps on skipping. lol  And by the way when in the last 3 games did PL80 score???  I think your thinking JM44 who is not on the list.