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Author Topic: Rewatched the whole 2019 season...  (Read 1306 times)
TecnoGenius
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« on: April 14, 2021, 09:31:14 AM »

Watched all 2019 Bomber game in a short time period.  Gained a bit of a new perspective without all the "emotion" of being in-season.  Changed my mind on a few things.

I really focused on QBs.  I loved the back and forth we all had here on the forum during the season on Nichols (most hated good QB WPG ever had), Strev, and Zach.

First, the people who said we couldn't win the post-season with (just) Strev... you guys were right.  At the time I thought we had a chance.  Strev wasn't going to get us to and win a GC.  The D's were picking on him, bringing big pass pressure on 2nd & long.  Always picking on him by forcing the med/long pass and discouraging/covering the run / short pass.  Strev clearly had trouble reading the D and finding the holes quickly.  He just didn't have a good feel for it.  To be fair he can probably gain that with many more years' experience.

Second, I think Nichols could have taken us all the way.  He was amazing, like get up an cheer awesome, in nearly every game until the "trip East" debacle.  I'm sure he would have gotten his mojo back around the same time the rest of the team did late in the season.

Purely comparing Nichols with Zach: they both read quickly, but Nichols is more cautious.  Zach just didn't give a hoot if he was throwing into traffic, he'd take the chance and pull the trigger.  Part of that may have been him being the "parachute" QB who wasn't invested emotionally about "letting the fans down" like Nichols clearly was.  Nichols actually threw better, nicer, in-stride deep (Chevelle!) balls than Zach on a per-game basis.  He had a better touch.  Zach underthrew all the time.  But Zach spotted the single-covered guy in man coverage and chose to trust his guy more often.  And our corps made it pay off.  Maybe Nichols needed to trust his guys more.

Zach was the master of not getting flustered.  Most will focus on Nichols throwing it away after his reads fail.  It's a valid point.  When Nichols' in-brain-timer went off, he started looking for the exit play way before Zach would.  Zach just didn't seem to care.  No fear.  That allowed Zach to find the late-developing play (like the famous Adams pass).  But it also got him picked and (especially) should-have-been-picked more than Nichols.

And you can't discount the Nichols headspace.  He took things way more personally.  In some ways it's admirable, but if things went badly, he may not have recovered in time.  Zach had none of that baggage, being the new guy with zero expectations.  If Zach had bombed, fans wouldn't crucify him because we all expected a here-only-2-weeks guy to fail: How could he possibly win the GC for us?  In that sense, in a strange way, Zach was given an advantage.  If Zach plays for WPG for 4 years like Nichols did, would he still have that same carefree attitude and advantage?

To sum, Strev wasn't the answer as #1, Nichols probably could have done it, but I'll admit that Zach probably gave us the best chance due to calm demeanour and general nonchalance.  I'll still be a lifelong Nichols (and Strev) fan though.

Oh ya, MAN DO I REALLY MISS BOMBER FOOTBALL!  I can't describe the pain to you, though some of you will undoubtedly understand.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2021, 01:14:16 PM »

Most hated good QB Winnipeg ever had award goes to......Kevin Glenn by a long shot.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2021, 05:13:22 PM »

I've softened my position a lot on Nichols... I finally figured out that he was only as good as the game plan Lapo gave him... he did prove early in the 2019 season that when given a more dynamic, and unexpected, game plan he could be very good... on the other hand, when given all the check down and short yardage stuff that is exactly what he'd do... dink and dunk...
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theaardvark
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2021, 07:28:19 PM »

I think the key issue not stated was Collaros was "no fear", but also had pinpoint accuracy.  Those "no fear" passes hit the mark or were uncatchable.  No turnovers.  My biggest issue with Nichols was when he ran out of options, he turned the ball over far too much.  He forced passes in the same situations you would call Zach "no fear", and gave away the ball.  Not all the time, but much more than Zach. 

Never knowing when Nichols would turn it over made my stomach churn.

After seeing Zach hit Adams in the endzone, I knew we'd be celebrating an end to the drought...
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Pigskin
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2021, 08:17:00 PM »

Matt played for the bombers for 41/2 years and started 69 regular season games, and threw 42 Int's. So Int's wasn't a problem for me. It was his mobility and his inability to win the big game. Matt just couldn't buy himself any time with his legs. However with that said, we are never winning that GC without Strev. 
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2021, 02:41:21 AM »

Most hated good QB Winnipeg ever had award goes to......Kevin Glenn by a long shot.

I don't know... I think Nichols gives Glenn a run for his money.  Did Glenn ever get booed walking on/off the field in WPG like Nichols did?  Were the post-game callers harder on Glenn than Nichols?  I still remember all the people post-game in 2018 saying "fire Nichols, put Strev in".
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2021, 02:46:26 AM »

I've softened my position a lot on Nichols... I finally figured out that he was only as good as the game plan Lapo gave him... he did prove early in the 2019 season that when given a more dynamic, and unexpected, game plan he could be very good... on the other hand, when given all the check down and short yardage stuff that is exactly what he'd do... dink and dunk...

Yes, I think Nichols was hitting his stride in 2019.  It could have been the peak of his career had he not gotten Lemonated.  I rue the day Lemonator got traded to BC... to have your life ruined by the worst team in the CFL has got to suck.

I don't hold it against Lemon, though.  On pre-cup all-day Saturday show Lemonator (and Posey) both came on with Chez and Kate and picked WPG to win, and caused a lot of eyebrow-raising.  They both gave great reasons why WPG would win, and they were spot on.  They showed surprising intelligence and insight, and I was greatly impressed by them both (Posey would look good in B&Gold).  Not like the rest of the panel (except Rod and Milt) who all picked HAM.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2021, 01:53:34 PM »

I don't know... I think Nichols gives Glenn a run for his money.  Did Glenn ever get booed walking on/off the field in WPG like Nichols did?  Were the post-game callers harder on Glenn than Nichols?  I still remember all the people post-game in 2018 saying "fire Nichols, put Strev in".


I remember some pretty visceral hate from the fan base for him back in 2008, and the ever present looming feeling in my gut that he had the ability to soil the bedsheets at the most inopportune times, which he often did.  It's one thing to lose your job to Chris Streveler, it's a whole other thing to lose it to Ryan Dinwiddie and Stefan Lefors. 

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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2021, 03:11:32 PM »

Most hated good QB Winnipeg ever had award goes to......Kevin Glenn by a long shot.

This. Especially in 2008 when things didn't start of well. And as with Nichols, the hate for Glenn back then was mostly irrational, too.

I think the key issue not stated was Collaros was "no fear", but also had pinpoint accuracy.  Those "no fear" passes hit the mark or were uncatchable.  No turnovers.  My biggest issue with Nichols was when he ran out of options, he turned the ball over far too much.  He forced passes in the same situations you would call Zach "no fear", and gave away the ball.  Not all the time, but much more than Zach. 

Never knowing when Nichols would turn it over made my stomach churn.

After seeing Zach hit Adams in the endzone, I knew we'd be celebrating an end to the drought...

Comical revisionist history. This makes you sound like a greenie.
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Waffler
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2021, 03:51:00 PM »

I feel like the oddball for liking BOTH Glenn and Nichols. Never got on the Dinwiddie, Joey Eliot or whoever bandwagons. 
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2021, 03:52:57 PM »

I feel like the oddball for liking BOTH Glenn and Nichols. Never got on the Dinwiddie, Joey Eliot or whoever bandwagons. 

I don't think that makes you an oddball. Glenn and Nichols are easily the two best pivots this team has had since Khari Jones. Sadly, the backup QB is always the most popular player whenever a starter struggles or doesn't play to the "expectations" of the armchair crowd.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2021, 04:59:41 PM »

I don't think that makes you an oddball. Glenn and Nichols are easily the two best pivots this team has had since Khari Jones. Sadly, the backup QB is always the most popular player whenever a starter struggles or doesn't play to the "expectations" of the armchair crowd.

Glenn gets way more hate then he deserves.  He did a very good job in Calgary before the Tate and BLM show.  2006/07 with the Bombers he was comparable to Khari.  He didn't stick around the CFL for as long as he did because he sucks, and if not for one play he'd have ended the drought 12 years earlier.

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GCn19
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« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2021, 05:08:19 PM »

Glenn gets way more hate then he deserves.  He did a very good job in Calgary before the Tate and BLM show.  2006/07 with the Bombers he was comparable to Khari.  He didn't stick around the CFL for as long as he did because he sucks, and if not for one play he'd have ended the drought 12 years earlier.



I agree. Mike Kelly signed his ticket out of town the day he let the fans run KG out of town without having a reasonable plan to replace him.
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GCn19
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2021, 05:11:40 PM »

I think the key issue not stated was Collaros was "no fear", but also had pinpoint accuracy.  Those "no fear" passes hit the mark or were uncatchable.  No turnovers.  My biggest issue with Nichols was when he ran out of options, he turned the ball over far too much.  He forced passes in the same situations you would call Zach "no fear", and gave away the ball.  Not all the time, but much more than Zach. 

Never knowing when Nichols would turn it over made my stomach churn.

After seeing Zach hit Adams in the endzone, I knew we'd be celebrating an end to the drought...


Not sure exactly what games you were watching because that is sure as heck not what most of us observed. Matt was safe to a fault. His turnover ratio speaks volumes to that. Matt was every bit as accurate and able to throw as Zack, he just always took the safest route when he should have been taking shots.
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Jesse
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« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2021, 05:26:51 PM »

I don't know... I think Nichols gives Glenn a run for his money.  Did Glenn ever get booed walking on/off the field in WPG like Nichols did?  Were the post-game callers harder on Glenn than Nichols?  I still remember all the people post-game in 2018 saying "fire Nichols, put Strev in".


Were you a fan in those Glenn days? He was definitely more hated than Nichols.

Glenn was always seen as a step down from peak-Khari. Nichols pulled us out of the gutter.

Honestly, outside of a few members on this board, I don't know if Nichols was hated at all. But Glenn took constant heat.
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2021, 06:15:14 PM »

Not sure if I can handle thinking about the CFL merging with the XFL, the possibility of never getting to another game, AND the period between 2008 thru 2015.

Lock the whole forum!! lol
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Pigskin
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« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2021, 07:52:52 PM »

Nice Blue, you addressed 3 topics in one post. That's good post management.
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BLUEBOMBER
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« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2021, 05:28:18 PM »

The 2019 definitely was a pleasure to watch for most games especially the whipping of Calgary, Sask. and then Hamilton in the Grey Cup.  So sweet!!
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2021, 02:57:16 AM »

The 2019 definitely was a pleasure to watch for most games especially the whipping of Calgary, Sask. and then Hamilton in the Grey Cup.  So sweet!!

I thought the MTL and TOR debacle games would be painful to rewatch, but they weren't at all.  My original GBU's on those still stand, the Bombers were clearly the better team but we got shafted by prevent-D calling, really really bad reffing (Kim's first-down not first-down), and some great plays by the other (hungry) team.

Strange, but on rewatching the MTL game I actually was ok with the outcome and happy for MTL.  They played their derriere off and deserved it.  Good for Khari.  (Still don't like VAJ's Bighill attack though.)

I now found the most aggravating games were the HAM losses.  No way we should have sucked that bad against Masoli-less HAM in HAM.  And when you watch that game and then the GC, it's insanely puzzling why HAM didn't stick to that O gameplan!!  We still had no answer for those 7,8,9 man OL protection and crossers, but HAM barely used anything but 5,6 man pass pro.  It's mind boggling, especially after halftime, just more of the same losing 1st half tactics.  Not complaining, though!
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bryan35
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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2021, 06:53:11 PM »

Were you a fan in those Glenn days? He was definitely more hated than Nichols.

Glenn was always seen as a step down from peak-Khari. Nichols pulled us out of the gutter.

Honestly, outside of a few members on this board, I don't know if Nichols was hated at all. But Glenn took constant heat.

He did and it seemed like once he left Winnipeg his play improved. What bugged me about Glenn was that it looked like he could care less if he threw a pick six. Kind of like oh well...
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2021, 04:43:46 AM »

He did and it seemed like once he left Winnipeg his play improved. What bugged me about Glenn was that it looked like he could care less if he threw a pick six. Kind of like oh well...

Hah, that's ironic, the least-liked good WPG QBs were:
a) the guy who hates throwing INTs more than anyone
b) the guy who didn't care if he threw an INT

Funny, but I think Zach leans more toward the (b) camp.  He seems like he's become the Kimi Raikonnen of the CFL.  (An injoke for F1 fans.)
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2021, 06:54:41 AM »

I also meant to mention, especially after watching the post-season yet another time, that we really should give some big props to Sayles and Rose.

The loss of those 2 guys cannot be understated (should we ever play ball again).  And if there's any way to get them back, do it.

The plays they both made many times in the season (and playoffs) were unbelievable.  Like better-than-CGY's-dbs good.  They kind of went south and/or (then) signed with other CFL teams without much hoopla around here.  But I think they deserve credit for being major contributors to our wins.

Sure, Sayles had handsy illegal-contact problems for the first half of the season.  But he fixed that problem.  I think he got only one IC in the last 4 games.  But Sayles was 100% a WPG find and development.  That's saying something, as we rarely dev superstar DBs, for whatever reason.  And both were the only DBs we kept starting all 18 games and the post-season, right?  That's saying something, as we were constantly tweaking that DB corps.

Rose was a steal from BC, but we made him even better.  What a stats sheet he had in 2019, and that's saying a lot because for the last half-season QBs tried to stay away from him.

Those 2 guys were top-5-in-CFL calibre for sure in 2019.  Maybe even top-3... I'd argue it!

I'll miss them, and if they never play in B&G again, they deserve a heap of thanks for what they did in their brief time here.  I'm not sure we win the cup without those two guys playing all 21 games.

I find it kind of sad these types of important guys get a bit overlooked by the forum when they leave.  Everyone gets all emotional when the Goose quits, but many people say "meh" when Sayles/Rose leave.  I guess that's the life of an IMP DB...
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