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Author Topic: CFL / XFL venture  (Read 11314 times)
Blue In BC
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« Reply #240 on: May 05, 2021, 05:10:26 PM »

Y'know, the idea of a merger revolts me, because I think the available stadium sizes in the US mean an inevitable move to an 11 man game, with 4 downs as part of the package.

And the tin-hatter in me wonders if the fact that both the Ti-Cats and Riders drafted high value TE prospects (in a league that for years hasn't really used the TE other than as a utility blocker) isn't those teams hedging their bets in the event a merger proceeds. 

Those are certainly part of the problems to be considered. Count me as revolted by the idea as well. It would no longer be the CFL as we know it and you may as well throw out the idea of a ratio which the US gov't won't allow.

The statement about TE's is interesting but IMO I just view those as players that will be listed as FB's and occasional receivers. Although sometimes the bigger body receiver types become possession guys or efforts to mismatch against small DB's.

TE is just a name. Many teams have LB's that line up as FB's etc etc.  Drafting a TE at # 1 does make you wonder about the thinking.

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GCn19
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« Reply #241 on: May 05, 2021, 06:46:24 PM »

Those are certainly part of the problems to be considered. Count me as revolted by the idea as well. It would no longer be the CFL as we know it and you may as well throw out the idea of a ratio which the US gov't won't allow.

The statement about TE's is interesting but IMO I just view those as players that will be listed as FB's and occasional receivers. Although sometimes the bigger body receiver types become possession guys or efforts to mismatch against small DB's.

TE is just a name. Many teams have LB's that line up as FB's etc etc.  Drafting a TE at # 1 does make you wonder about the thinking.



It seems to me that when the CFL went south in the 90's the field size problem was always length- not width. If it meant going to a 100 yard field to preserve the 12th man and 3 downs I would be ok with that.
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bluebeard
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« Reply #242 on: May 05, 2021, 07:01:23 PM »

I agree.  I would also go to 15 yard end zones if need be.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #243 on: May 07, 2021, 03:04:53 PM »

The CFL rules make for a more exciting game, by far.  Unfortunately, the NFL could never invoke them, because making players on multi million dollar guaranteed contracts hit each other at highest speed with the biggest force on ST plays means risking losing both the player and the money on any one play. 

CFL teams employ players that do not have quite the ability for destruction that NFL players do, and even though we have far more ST plays per game, and much more dangerous ST rules, the opportunity for injury is not epidemic.  Certainly not bad enough to make us reconsider the rules and make the game more tame, like the NFL is forced to do.

I'm not saying CFL players are disposable, or that the non-guaranteed status of their contracts makes them expendable/replaceable, just saying their talent level makes them less likely to kill each other in a football play.  Yes, some will still get injured, but not nearly the way they would with CFL rules and NFL talent.

That said, using CFL rules in the XFL "spring league" would be exciting, and again, less dangerous than using them with NFL level talent.  Might make the XFL more marketable. 

You don't need to play XFL teams against CFL teams ever to have a merger. I'd much prefer a "strategic alliance" that declares certain sharing of resources and opportunities.  If they mirror our 9 teams in US cities, we could swap a few players, coaches, and the like.  Would be an interesting way to change INT player recruitment, giving CFL teams certain cachements, based on their XFL affiliate. CFL could potentially use the southern facilities for spring mini camps, especially if the leagues share a rule set.

There are a lot of ways to "venture" that make both leagues stronger without making either one lose its identity.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #244 on: May 09, 2021, 01:43:51 PM »

the only resource they could share that makes any sense is money... they will never share players, coaches, etc... it's all about money, money to save one league and the opportunity to make more by the other...
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BLUEBOMBER
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« Reply #245 on: May 09, 2021, 03:54:56 PM »

I believe the the CFL wants TV, merchandise, sponsorship money from the U.S. market and the XFL wants credibility, stability and already established Canadian teams.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #246 on: May 09, 2021, 04:27:52 PM »

I believe the the CFL wants TV, merchandise, sponsorship money from the U.S. market and the XFL wants credibility, stability and already established Canadian teams.

Yes but the question is how do you put that puzzle together. Another question is why would the CFL have any interest in a 1 partial season XFL that has only played about 6-8 games?
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bluebeard
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« Reply #247 on: May 09, 2021, 08:47:27 PM »

For me, this always has been an exercise to get an American TV contract.  Americans want to see American cities play And the Networks want this also but they require stability and more cities involved.  They do not want to see the same teams over and over again.  For these reasons enter the CFL...18 teams are not the 32 team NFL but are adequate for what the networks require.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #248 on: May 10, 2021, 12:54:20 PM »

For me, this always has been an exercise to get an American TV contract.  Americans want to see American cities play And the Networks want this also but they require stability and more cities involved.  They do not want to see the same teams over and over again.  For these reasons enter the CFL...18 teams are not the 32 team NFL but are adequate for what the networks require.

In a spring league it would be easier for the XFL to add additional teams in the USA. They wouldn't have to change rules, ratio or field size to sync into the CFL. While the CFL adds history / stability do we really believe Americans want to watch a game in Regina for example?

Anyone know the value of the previous XFL tv contract?
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bluebeard
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« Reply #249 on: May 10, 2021, 03:44:20 PM »

Yes I do.  Regina may be small but now they have a stadium that has rabbit fans, looks good on the TV screen and has atmosphere.  Not to tear down other cities such as Vancouver or TO but fans sit on their hands.  Terrible atmosphere for a football game and no wonder they stay away in droves.  Do you really think that American fans care or know if it is Regina, Ottawa or Hamilton?  What they don't know about Canadian Cities would fill volumes.
What about Green Bay...smaller then Regina.  Your argument holds absolutely no water.
Do you really think that American football players know anything about the size of Canadian Cities or anything about them...TO being the exception as they see them on TV for other sports such as baseball.
The TV screen does not say anything about Canadian Cities...size or culture.  All it sees is screaming fans and good or bad football.

How many more times do leagues in America. outside the NFL, fold because they do not have the trust of stability of fans or TV networks?  They need,  for several years, big brother TV networks to carry them and not run when rating fall.

End of rant.
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the paw
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« Reply #250 on: May 10, 2021, 03:59:04 PM »

In a spring league it would be easier for the XFL to add additional teams in the USA. They wouldn't have to change rules, ratio or field size to sync into the CFL. While the CFL adds history / stability do we really believe Americans want to watch a game in Regina for example?

Anyone know the value of the previous XFL tv contract?

Zero.  the networks weren't paying them anything.

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2019/05/07/xfl-espn-fox-abc-fs1-tv-rights-television-rights-broadcast

There was a story from a media rights "expert" circulating awhile back that suggest a CFL/XFL merger could command a $100 million media deal.  First off, it was lazy valuation, I think they just took the existing CFL TV deal value and doubled it because there would be twice as many teams.  Secondly, even if it were true, there would be twice as many teams to split it, so there would be no net gain for existing CFL clubs. 

I think the XFL started hot with its first few weeks of ratings, but eventually settled in at around 500k viewers per game, which is comparable to CFL viewership on TSN.  Except that's in a network media market at least 10 times larger.   I don't know if there are a bunch of American advertisers dying to get their ads in front of Cdn viewers, or Cdn advertisers who want to get into pockets of the US market, but they will have to show those advertisers exist before I would be willing to gamble the future of the league on it. 
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #251 on: May 10, 2021, 04:31:28 PM »

Yes I do.  Regina may be small but now they have a stadium that has rabbit fans, looks good on the TV screen and has atmosphere.  Not to tear down other cities such as Vancouver or TO but fans sit on their hands.  Terrible atmosphere for a football game and no wonder they stay away in droves.  Do you really think that American fans care or know if it is Regina, Ottawa or Hamilton?  What they don't know about Canadian Cities would fill volumes.
What about Green Bay...smaller then Regina.  Your argument holds absolutely no water.
Do you really think that American football players know anything about the size of Canadian Cities or anything about them...TO being the exception as they see them on TV for other sports such as baseball.
The TV screen does not say anything about Canadian Cities...size or culture.  All it sees is screaming fans and good or bad football.

How many more times do leagues in America. outside the NFL, fold because they do not have the trust of stability of fans or TV networks?  They need,  for several years, big brother TV networks to carry them and not run when rating fall.

End of rant.

Using Regina was a rhetorical suggestion. IIRC the XFL viewership was declining week to week when all teams were USA based.

Can't disagree some Canadian cities have much more interesting fan support than others.

I don't see how viewership goes up by adding Canadian cities in the mix at some level. Apparently the XFL wasn't getting any TV revenue in 2020.

Obviously the players just want to play but that doesn't change the interest in fans watching on TV.

Half the players in the CFL are Americans and if the interest was greater by fans they'd have some sort of broadcast in the USA.

Ironically it's the argument used to promote the CFL in Europe by adding Global players. We might be adding some talented players from other countries but was that the primary goal?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 04:52:38 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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Blue In BC
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« Reply #252 on: May 10, 2021, 04:36:36 PM »

Zero.  the networks weren't paying them anything.

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2019/05/07/xfl-espn-fox-abc-fs1-tv-rights-television-rights-broadcast

There was a story from a media rights "expert" circulating awhile back that suggest a CFL/XFL merger could command a $100 million media deal.  First off, it was lazy valuation, I think they just took the existing CFL TV deal value and doubled it because there would be twice as many teams.  Secondly, even if it were true, there would be twice as many teams to split it, so there would be no net gain for existing CFL clubs. 

I think the XFL started hot with its first few weeks of ratings, but eventually settled in at around 500k viewers per game, which is comparable to CFL viewership on TSN.  Except that's in a network media market at least 10 times larger.   I don't know if there are a bunch of American advertisers dying to get their ads in front of Cdn viewers, or Cdn advertisers who want to get into pockets of the US market, but they will have to show those advertisers exist before I would be willing to gamble the future of the league on it. 

I agree and saw the doubling of revenue against doubling of teams involved as well. The revenue expectation was optimistic as you mentioned.

American advertisers could have an interest in Canadian customers but they don't need the XFL for that. That's something that could be negotiated directly with TSN. Canadians use many many many American products too.

Canadian advertisers getting in front of American customers? Maybe but Americans already have access to Canadian programs and products already.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 04:41:39 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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bluebeard
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« Reply #253 on: May 10, 2021, 04:41:54 PM »

Yes, I realize this.  This was because previous leagues like the AAFL and XFL folded.  I think that the Networks said, prove to me that you will be in business by the end of the season and we will talk about next season.  This is my take only.

Enter the CFL for stability.  They (XFL) have all ready talked to Fox but I do not know the outcome.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #254 on: May 10, 2021, 04:50:14 PM »

Yes, I realize this.  This was because previous leagues like the AAFL and XFL folded.  I think that the Networks said, prove to me that you will be in business by the end of the season and we will talk about next season.  This is my take only.

Enter the CFL for stability.  They (XFL) have all ready talked to Fox but I do not know the outcome.

Fair enough. I'm not in love with the idea of a CFL change to a spring league. OTOH if it got our games broadcast in the USA and got teams more revenue, I could live with that. But it's the CFL that has the stability and 50% American players.

The CFL doesn't need the XFL if that's what is the gating issue to get American broadcast.

TSN has exclusive rights IIRC. That said even nominal revenue for American rights could be beneficial to the CFL and TSN.

I'd float the idea to American broadcasters a 2021 broadcast of Canadian games as a test. That's if we could get an American network and TSN to get on board with that idea.

Clearly this idea must have been thought of many times in the last 50 years. No buyers yet.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 04:55:56 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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