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Author Topic: CFL Draft - Top Rated Picks  (Read 3707 times)
Blue In BC
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« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2021, 05:40:17 PM »

I think it's you who are clearly missing the point:  players are recruited by what they did at the next highest level before the pros and at a specific position;  but some to lots of Canadian players don't get the chance to compete at their position because of the huge amount of bias and favortism by CFL decision makers towards American players - which has been made more prevalent by CFL roster rule changes to allow more American players.  It is blatant and obvious favortism/bias (at QB, D-half and at other CFL times at tailback, MLB, CB, OT). The very best Canadian O-Line talent from college ball almost always gets a CFL shot, though mostly at interior O-line.

Players are given a chance to try-out for a specific team and specific position by the football people in charge - players don't get to just show up and try-out or compete on their own accord or because they are Canadian.

Bias? Persecution complex is more like it.  If you'd been paying attention to the CFL over the past decades you'd know that.

US has better college programs, better coaches, training regimes, competition level. More specifically it has many more players to draw from due to population.
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Blue Guess Who
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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2021, 05:43:19 PM »

That's not true. Many NAT players are drafted based on their athleticism and the coaches plan to convert them to another position.

 Sure, happens a bit;  and some guys who are top athletes and smart football players can adapt or maybe do OK on special teams.

 But, aside from Brad Sinopoli, give me a list of top Canadian CFL players who made such a significant position (and not tackle to guard or D-half to safety) switch and have been real impact players - from the last decade or two if you wish.  And then we can compare it to the list of CFL all-star Canadians who played their natural, college ball position in the CFL.

 Wally in BC thought Andrew Harris should be moved to safety or slotback when first there because he couldn't see or stomach a Canadian (out of Junior ball to boot) playing tailback for him.
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GCn19
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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2021, 05:49:51 PM »

Sure, happens a bit;  and some guys who are top athletes and smart football players can adapt or maybe do OK on special teams.

 But, aside from Brad Sinopoli, give me a list of top Canadian CFL players who made such a significant position (and not tackle to guard or D-half to safety) switch and have been real impact players - from the last decade or two if you wish.  And then we can compare it to the list of CFL all-star Canadians who played their natural, college ball position in the CFL.

 Wally in BC thought Andrew Harris should be moved to safety or slotback when first there because he couldn't see or stomach a Canadian (out of Junior ball to boot) playing tailback for him.

Kind of a red herring, out of position is out of position. Surely your don't expect me to compile a list of guys who went from DB to OL. Of course they will be going to a similar position to their body size. There have been guys make the move from OL to DL and receiver to DB....are they impactful moves...no...it's a way to roster them for their ST abilities while providing a need. If they don't make the move successfully they are replaced. Naturally it would be every teams preference to play guys at their natural positions, but if you have an athlete sometimes you move them so that you get full value.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 05:51:31 PM by GCn19 » Logged

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Blue Guess Who
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« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2021, 05:51:32 PM »

Bias? Persecution complex is more like it.  If you'd been paying attention to the CFL over the past decades you'd know that.

US has better college programs, better coaches, training regimes, competition level. More specifically it has many more players to draw from due to population.

Yep - everybody gets that the US has a bigger population than Canada and produces more football players.  That is trotted out as some conclusive proof of something every time on this topic (along with a bunch of other cliches).

 I'm not talking about joe average football player or  "numbers games"  or stuff like that.  Talking about the cream of the crop of the Canadian football talent pool that should be getting a CFL look at all positions.   If you'd been paying attention, you might have noticed that Andrew Harris is the best tailback in the CFL of the past 5 to 10 years even (and before him it  was Cornish) - clearly better than all/any American backs of the period.  There was a CFL period where basically zero Canadians got a shot to start at tailback in the CFL.  And that was all because of the attitudes of those making CFL personnel decisions - and THAT - who makes the decisions, is what is most mis-understood on this subject;  as everybody gets the USA is bigger than Canada.
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Blue Guess Who
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« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2021, 05:55:04 PM »

Kind of a red herring, out of position is out of position. Surely your don't expect me to compile a list of guys who went from DB to OL. Of course they will be going to a similar position to their body size. There have been guys make the move from OL to DL and receiver to DB....are they impactful moves...no...it's a way to roster them for their ST abilities while providing a need. If they don't make the move successfully they are replaced. Naturally it would be every teams preference to play guys at their natural positions, but if you have an athlete sometimes you move them so that you get full value.

 No;  i was hoping you could make a list of Canadian players who have gotten serious CFL chances to try-out at D-half, QB, corner, S-OLB in the past few years even.  Pretty short lists ?
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2021, 05:55:46 PM »

Yep - everybody gets that the US has a bigger population than Canada and produces more football players.  That is trotted out as some conclusive proof of something every time on this topic (along with a bunch of other cliches).

 I'm not talking about joe average football player or  "numbers games"  or stuff like that.  Talking about the cream of the crop of the Canadian football talent pool that should be getting a CFL look at all positions.   If you'd been paying attention, you might have noticed that Andrew Harris is the best tailback in the CFL of the past 5 to 10 years even (and before him it  was Cornish) - clearly better than all/any American backs of the period.  There was a CFL period where basically zero Canadians got a shot to start at tailback in the CFL.  And that was all because of the attitudes of those making CFL personnel decisions - and THAT - who makes the decisions, is what is most mis-understood on this subject;  as everybody gets the USA is bigger than Canada.

You're grasping at straws. Reality is reality. If I can look at 100 American players or 10 Canadian players the odds of finding a better American is obvious.

In the 50's and 60's there were a ton of Canadian RB's starting in the CFL.
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GCn19
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« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2021, 05:57:02 PM »

Yep - everybody gets that the US has a bigger population than Canada and produces more football players.  That is trotted out as some conclusive proof of something every time on this topic (along with a bunch of other cliches).

 I'm not talking about joe average football player or  "numbers games"  or stuff like that.  Talking about the cream of the crop of the Canadian football talent pool that should be getting a CFL look at all positions.   If you'd been paying attention, you might have noticed that Andrew Harris is the best tailback in the CFL of the past 5 to 10 years even (and before him it  was Cornish) - clearly better than all/any American backs of the period.  There was a CFL period where basically zero Canadians got a shot to start at tailback in the CFL.  And that was all because of the attitudes of those making CFL personnel decisions - and THAT - who makes the decisions, is what is most mis-understood on this subject;  as everybody gets the USA is bigger than Canada.

Cornish and Harris are certainly examples of NATs that were dominant at traditionally IMP positions but for every one of those there are many high draft picks who just can't beat out an IMP for a position but hold value to the team. I don't think there is any doubt that high NAT draft picks can compete with NATs at a position but if you look at the list of all stars at skill positions you will see a list heavily dominated by IMPs...and so it should be....their is a vast difference in the size of the pool of players available.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2021, 05:57:41 PM »

No;  i was hoping you could make a list of Canadian players who have gotten serious CFL chances to try-out at D-half, QB, corner, S-OLB in the past few years even.  Pretty short lists ?

And we keep telling you why and you keeping ignoring what we're telling you. Anyway. LB's: O'Shea, C.Judge, Lokombo, Ackie to name a few.

Thanks for playing. Smiley
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GCn19
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« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2021, 06:03:18 PM »

No;  i was hoping you could make a list of Canadian players who have gotten serious CFL chances to try-out at D-half, QB, corner, S-OLB in the past few years even.  Pretty short lists ?

Short lists for sure because there just are not many available that can play at a CFL level. That's just fact. Are there bound to be outliers like Judge or Ackie, sure there are but teams would rather go searching in a deep pool than go looking for a needle in a haystack. I'm certainly not suggesting there are no NATs that can play at an equal level to some IMPs at skill positions, I'm just saying I understand why we don't see more of them. The reason, imo, is because in a cash strapped league you have to make the very best of your recruitment expenses and it is far more budget friendly to look at 100 IMPS at skill positions to find 10 capable of playing at a high level in the CFL than it is to look at 1000 NATs to find one. They are just more pro ready because they come from vastly superior football coaching, training, and competition levels.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 06:16:33 PM by GCn19 » Logged

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Blue Guess Who
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« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2021, 06:13:04 PM »

Cornish and Harris are certainly examples of NATs that were dominant at traditionally IMP positions but for every one of those there are many high draft picks who just can't beat out an IMP for a position but hold value to the team. I don't think there is any doubt that high NAT draft picks can compete with NATs at a position but if you look at the list of all stars at skill positions you will see a list heavily dominated by IMPs...and so it should be....their is a vast difference in the size of the pool of players available.

 But this discussion morphed from a poster suggesting that top notch Canadian cornerback talents up this draft (Rene, St Juste, Leonard) shouldn't get a look at their position in the CFL.  They might pan out to be top CFL CB talents, just like Cornish & Harris turned out to be top CFL RBs after they were given the chance - that's the point - a real chance to compete at your position, and not be written-off because you are Canadian.
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Blue Guess Who
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« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2021, 06:17:35 PM »

And we keep telling you why and you keeping ignoring what we're telling you. Anyway. LB's: O'Shea, C.Judge, Lokombo, Ackie to name a few.

Thanks for playing. Smiley


 S-OLB is now more of an extra DB in the CFL game;  Canadians basically don't get to try-out there in the CFL now, just like they don't at D-half or QB.

 Anybody can name examples of Canadians playing all positions in CFL history.  The Als started 3 Canadians at LB in a season in the more recent past.

 I'm talking about the current CFL.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2021, 06:18:38 PM »

But this discussion morphed from a poster suggesting that top notch Canadian cornerback talents up this draft (Rene, St Juste, Leonard) shouldn't get a look at their position in the CFL.  They might pan out to be top CFL CB talents, just like Cornish & Harris turned out to be top CFL RBs after they were given the chance - that's the point - a real chance to compete at your position, and not be written-off because you are Canadian.

Two words: Derek Jones.

More words: Couldn't really cut it at DHB or safety either. They aren't written off they get beat out in TC.
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GCn19
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« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2021, 06:18:48 PM »

But this discussion morphed from a poster suggesting that top notch Canadian cornerback talents up this draft (Rene, St Juste, Leonard) shouldn't get a look at their position in the CFL.  They might pan out to be top CFL CB talents, just like Cornish & Harris turned out to be top CFL RBs after they were given the chance - that's the point - a real chance to compete at your position, and not be written-off because you are Canadian.

The  very high end guys in the draft will almost always get a chance to compete for their positions. However, just because they are highly ranked in Canadian college doesn't necessarily mean they can beat an IMP. That's just the fact of the matter.
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Blue Guess Who
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« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2021, 06:46:54 PM »

The  very high end guys in the draft will almost always get a chance to compete for their positions. However, just because they are highly ranked in Canadian college doesn't necessarily mean they can beat an IMP. That's just the fact of the matter.

 Agreed - top Canadian players are not not necessarily going to beat out an IMP for playing time/job;  and especially so if they don't even get the chance to compete in a CFL TC.
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Blue Guess Who
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« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2021, 12:20:44 AM »

Amen Ogbongbemiga 6'1" 235. Best D player in the draft. Says he wants his shot at the NFL. Which mite be good for Winnipeg this year $$$. Give him his shot in the NFL and bring him back in a year or two. 

D Joseph: 6'3" 265. Best DL in the Draft. Carbon copy to JK2. Had a breakout year this year. He will probably give the NFL a shot.

M Diallo: 6'4" 305. This is a big boy that can stop the run. Could be the future replacement for Jake.

Jevon Holland is as good as Mapletron, so he's probably heading to the NFL.

There is a large group of OL's but we really don't need another OL right now. Sage Doxtater 6'7" 330 this is one big man.


 CFL Combines lists announced.

 Gives a clearer picture of which U Sports prospects are up for this draft - as over 100 players were reported to have deferred to next draft because of the lost 2020 season.

 Pretty decent crop of U Sports LB and O-line prospects it seems;  also leading U Sports receiver from 2019 - Will Corby (U of T) is going to the Combine

 Some local products to consider: Bisons' CanWest all-star DBs Shae Weekes (went down to US college ball Bimidji State for last season but no season due to Covid;  also made U Sport all-Canadian at D-half) and Arjay Shelley (6-4 corner);  CanWest all-star RB & returner - Mike Ritchott from the Bisons;  LB Austin Delaroque - Mayville State and from Warren

 Still likely to be a NCAA prospect heavy draft - with a number of those draftable still able to return for another year of US college ball.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2021, 01:45:18 AM by Blue Guess Who » Logged
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