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Author Topic: Mike O'Shea  (Read 21426 times)
BigBomberFan
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« Reply #75 on: September 01, 2020, 01:32:49 AM »

O'Shea won the Grey Cup. To me, it doesn't matter how long or why, he had succeeded where others in this organization had failed for the last three or so decades. He's wearing the ring and could likely care less about what someone is writing about him on a message board. The joy that was brought to the city last year was just incredible.
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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #76 on: September 02, 2020, 03:16:09 AM »

TBurgess pathetic attitude to MOS belongs on the other forum. Much more appropriate their.
Agree
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #77 on: September 02, 2020, 01:22:20 PM »

Pathetic for having a differing opinion? I don't think that pathetic means what you think it does.
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« Reply #78 on: September 02, 2020, 04:40:31 PM »

Remember.....everyone here is entitled to an opinion provided it does not contravene the Code of Conduct.

People have made their views known on this subject so let's not continue to pile on.  Thanks.
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PloenFan
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« Reply #79 on: September 03, 2020, 12:45:40 AM »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Winnipeg_Blue_Bombers_head_coaches

Coach O'Shea is quietly piling up the wins.

If I'm reading this right:
- he is now second in Bomber coaching wins behind Bud Grant.
- he needs one more Grey Cup win  to match Mike Riley and Reg Threlfall and three more to tie Bud Grant.
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New_Earth_Mud
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« Reply #80 on: September 03, 2020, 01:46:04 AM »

Ill admit the first few years i wazent impressed with with MOS, Walters or Miller.

But now i think im not so impressed with the talent of the team as much how the team came together. These guys put together a team of players that just had the will to go win.

You can have the best Coaches or a GM or whatever..... but sometimes you just cant beat that team that is just ready to win. Its in the fight.

So what im saying is.....  we might not have had the best talent in the league ... but when it counted ... i will say without any doubt MOS,Walters and Miller played a huge part in the way the team played to bring them a Cup.

Tburg can yap all he wants.

BUt when you build a team for years. Then loose your starting QB. Bring in a new guy and go wIn a Cup.

You have to respect the coaching.
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« Reply #81 on: September 03, 2020, 01:49:39 AM »

Ill admit the first few years i wazent impressed with with MOS, Walters or Miller.

But now i think im not so impressed with the talent of the team as much how the team came together. These guys put together a team of players that just had the will to go win.

You can have the best Coaches or a GM or whatever..... but sometimes you just cant beat that team that is just ready to win. Its in the fight.

So what im saying is.....  we might not have had the best talent in the league ... but when it counted ... i will say without any doubt MOS,Walters and Miller played a huge part in the way the team played to bring them a Cup.

Tburg can yap all he wants.

BUt when you build a team for years. Then loose your starting QB. Bring in a new guy and go wIn a Cup.

You have to respect the coaching.
well done Muddy well said
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« Reply #82 on: September 03, 2020, 03:32:26 AM »

Mike O'Shea was hired in December 2013.  The 2013 team was coached by Tim Burke and quarterbacked by Justin Golz, Max Hall and Jason Boltus. 

That team went 3 and 15 in 2013.  They lost 10 of their first 12 games and 9 of those losses would be considered blow outs by most people.

That is the team Mike O'Shea inherited.

His first two seasons were losing seasons but from 2015 to 2019 they were all winning record seasons culminating with the Grey Cup win in 2019.

In addition, when he joined the Bombers he was a rookie head coach.  While some may have wanted the team to progress faster, O'Shea took time to build a team of players he wanted and that he believed would succeed....that is players who were skilled and committed to the program in Winnipeg.  He drew in players that wanted to be here.

It may have taken longer than some liked, but it proved to be a strategy that resulted in success and winning the ultimate prize.  Only time will tell if his strategy is sustainable but, IMHO, he is proving himself to be one of the better head coaches Winnipeg has had in it's long football history.

To diminish his accomplishments would be unfair, arguably untrue and overly critical.  He has done well.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 03:34:08 AM by ModAdmin » Logged

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GCn19
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« Reply #83 on: September 03, 2020, 06:39:27 PM »

I think that saying his initial couple seasons means anything now is ridiculous. He has vastly improved since then and his past record is completely irrelevant to today. The fact of the matter is that as of today he is easily one of the top coaches in the CFL, if not the top coach, and he has the Grey Cup ring to prove it.

It's like saying Anthony Calvillo was an average QB because he was a backup/fringe starter until he went to Montreal. Coaches improve, players improve, and football is a what have you done for me lately business.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #84 on: September 03, 2020, 08:29:20 PM »

Ignoring parts of O'Shea's career is just juicing his stats. He owns the first two seasons the same as he owns the great playoff run last year. It's not like rookie HC's can't turn bad teams around, Khari Jones did it in 1 year.

MOS wasn't the only HC to lose his starting QB in 2019. Steinauer, a rookie HC, lost his starting QB and still coached his team to the best record in the CFL. Craig Dickenson, a rookie HC, lost his starting QB and coached his team to the 2nd best record in the league. Both coaches lost their starting QB's before MOS lost his and both went into the playoffs with inexperienced starters. MOS coached the Bombers to 4th overall, 3rd in the West, and didn't have to use an inexperienced QB in the playoffs. I've said it over and over, the trade that gave us a legit starting QB going into the playoffs was the difference maker between one and done again and a Grey Cup victory, yet some want to give MOS all the credit.

O'Shea is 2nd in wins because he's 2nd in games coached. 8 other Bomber coaches, from Grant forward, would have had more wins if they had  GM's who stuck by them as long as Walters has stuck by MOS. Most of our previous GM's would have fired MOS after his 2nd season in a row out of the playoffs. I don't know of any past GM's, Bombers or not, who would have given MOS 5 years to get a single playoff win.

MOS is a much better coach than when he started. Even so, his regular season records are pedestrian. One 2nd, 3 3rds in the West and 2 missed playoffs. Our first taste of playoff success came in 2018, his 5th season, and it was a single win. In 2019, we were the best team in the playoffs after coming 4th overall in the league. One playoff run, even if it's a Grey Cup win, doesn't equal a great coach.  I have him at 6th best of the Bomber coaches since the 50's. Pretty good among a bunch of bad coaches. I don't know where I'd rank MOS against all the CFL HC's since the 50's, but it wouldn't be near the top 10 and you need to at least be in that conversation to be considered among the great HC's.
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« Reply #85 on: September 04, 2020, 04:21:05 AM »

Ignoring parts of O'Shea's career is just juicing his stats. He owns the first two seasons the same as he owns the great playoff run last year. It's not like rookie HC's can't turn bad teams around, Khari Jones did it in 1 year.

MOS wasn't the only HC to lose his starting QB in 2019. Steinauer, a rookie HC, lost his starting QB and still coached his team to the best record in the CFL. Craig Dickenson, a rookie HC, lost his starting QB and coached his team to the 2nd best record in the league. Both coaches lost their starting QB's before MOS lost his and both went into the playoffs with inexperienced starters. MOS coached the Bombers to 4th overall, 3rd in the West, and didn't have to use an inexperienced QB in the playoffs. I've said it over and over, the trade that gave us a legit starting QB going into the playoffs was the difference maker between one and done again and a Grey Cup victory, yet some want to give MOS all the credit.

O'Shea is 2nd in wins because he's 2nd in games coached. 8 other Bomber coaches, from Grant forward, would have had more wins if they had  GM's who stuck by them as long as Walters has stuck by MOS. Most of our previous GM's would have fired MOS after his 2nd season in a row out of the playoffs. I don't know of any past GM's, Bombers or not, who would have given MOS 5 years to get a single playoff win.

MOS is a much better coach than when he started. Even so, his regular season records are pedestrian. One 2nd, 3 3rds in the West and 2 missed playoffs. Our first taste of playoff success came in 2018, his 5th season, and it was a single win. In 2019, we were the best team in the playoffs after coming 4th overall in the league. One playoff run, even if it's a Grey Cup win, doesn't equal a great coach.  I have him at 6th best of the Bomber coaches since the 50's. Pretty good among a bunch of bad coaches. I don't know where I'd rank MOS against all the CFL HC's since the 50's, but it wouldn't be near the top 10 and you need to at least be in that conversation to be considered among the great HC's.

You are entitled to your views and opinions.  But, very few people here have said M.O. should be categorized as a great head coach.  Most have complimented him for bringing raising the team from a very poor performance in 2013 when he started, to winning a Grey Cup in 2019.  You may not like the rate of progress but he did what, seemingly, the GM, President and others considered a good job over those years by bringing in players who were talented, winners and wanted to be in Winnipeg.  That is the thought that initiated this thread, most seem to agree and you seem to be one of few who want to challenge that.  O'Shea has been here for 6 seasons where football has actually been played.  And he took over a lack luster team and led it to a Grey Cup.  The label "great head coach" may or may not happen but he has done the job he was paid to do so far.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #86 on: September 04, 2020, 09:37:58 AM »

MOS is a much better coach than when he started. Even so, his regular season records are pedestrian.

In my humble opinion, I think our 2019 season record didn't represent the caliber of team we had.  And I think SSK's season didn't represent the caliber of team they had.  I think WPG should have been +2 (maybe +3) on the year because we basically lost 2 games in nearly impossible ways by trying to play the odds / play safe against vastly inferior teams (@MTL, @TOR).  In a normal world, those games don't end like that.  Yes, Milt says a loss is a loss, but those games really should have been ours.  That would have put us tied with SSK, and if we had pulled out that one close loss to them, we might have been 1st in the W.  Even grabbing just 1 of those embarrassing losses would have given us 2nd in W and home WSF.

Yes, many won't agree with me, but that's how I feel.  That's why I knew we'd be strong into the playoffs, because we really were, in reality but not on paper, the #1 or #2 team in the league, not #4.  The playoff run proved that.  No team had a chance and our D held everyone to basically zero points.  Look at the WDF... we held the #1 in the W team to zero TDs.  Zero TDs.  When's the last time you saw a divisional final with zero TDs by the higher ranked team?  Never, probably.

TB, I'm fine with you opinion and your facts are overwhelmingly correct, no problem there; but like others point out, your spin is a bid odd for a WPG fan celebrating a cup win.  I wonder, though, what are your thoughts on Hall then?  Great DC, or was he just lucky?  (Coming from Hall's #1 fan.)  If you're hard on MOS, not sure where you'll go with Hall.  I don't remember if you were a Hall hater or lover in the old 2018 Hall threads (sorry)...
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #87 on: September 04, 2020, 01:34:03 PM »

I too complement MOS on having a great playoff run last year. I'm very happy with the Grey Cup win after all these years. I don't think I'm being hard on MOS. I think I'm being realistic about his tenure so far and I think that the facts support my opinion. I'm not the one who is spinning anything. Just following the facts.

Just for Tecno cuz he asked: I'm not a huge Hall fan, but he had a great year last year. The Bombers gave him 11 starting imports and a couple of DI's and he molded them into one of the best defences in the league. He confused opposition QB's and his bend, don't break, worked to a T in the playoffs. I'll be very interested to see how his D looks next year. Will it be as stout as last year or go back to bend and break? (FTR: I like an attacking defence better)
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« Reply #88 on: September 04, 2020, 01:49:14 PM »

I too complement MOS on having a great playoff run last year. I'm very happy with the Grey Cup win after all these years. I don't think I'm being hard on MOS. I think I'm being realistic about his tenure so far and I think that the facts support my opinion. I'm not the one who is spinning anything. Just following the facts.

Just for Tecno cuz he asked: I'm not a huge Hall fan, but he had a great year last year. The Bombers gave him 11 starting imports and a couple of DI's and he molded them into one of the best defences in the league. He confused opposition QB's and his bend, don't break, worked to a T in the playoffs. I'll be very interested to see how his D looks next year. Will it be as stout as last year or go back to bend and break? (FTR: I like an attacking defence better)

I agree on Hall with the caveat that I think his defensive system is tailor made for cold weather playoff football. His defences, imo, will always appear pedestrian in the heat of summer when players fatigue in the heat and passing games are executing at a high level...but I don't think there is a better cold weather system going. You need to be extremely efficient passing to beat his defence because he takes the run game out of the equation and that's hard to do in November in Canada.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #89 on: September 08, 2020, 10:02:29 AM »

Just for Tecno cuz he asked: I'm not a huge Hall fan, but he had a great year last year. The Bombers gave him 11 starting imports and a couple of DI's and he molded them into one of the best defences in the league. He confused opposition QB's and his bend, don't break, worked to a T in the playoffs. I'll be very interested to see how his D looks next year. Will it be as stout as last year or go back to bend and break? (FTR: I like an attacking defence better)

Yes, I was thinking about the IMPs on D.  We basically had what could be an NFL D: almost all IMPs.  However, every team has the option of tweaking their ratio like that, if they hire the right NATs...  Let's not scoff at Kongbo or Fatboi though, they were both stout in the playoffs.  Maybe not huge stats, but watch the line play, they made their impact.

Hall sometimes confused me too, even when rewatching a play a few times!  Cheesy  Sometimes it's impossible to guess who will come and who will drop back.  Just as impossible is guessing how many are actually coming.  I can just imagine how much hell that is for QBs.

Attacking D?  What do you mean?  Our GC D wasn't "attacking" enough for you?  Or do you mean attacking the routes and getting takeaways?  Funny how our regular season takeaways, while good, weren't as good as our peak turnover years.  But I take out lessening reliance on the turnover as a sign of strength: not needing fancy pants plays to win games.  Or do you mean more blitzes?  Hmm, again you'd have to separate regular from post-season to analyze.  Let me know what you mean by attacking and I can better respond.

GCn19: maybe.  Our D had some great games in the heat too.  But you might be right as we really lit up in the last 4 (overall) games; all chilly games.  To me the only real blemishes on our D were the early games when we were still getting comfortable and still trying to slot in the best players, and the awful TOR & MTL losses which I think were purely a function of lax/prevent-D play calling (and really bad luck).

After watching the last 4 games a zillion and one times, I can honestly say that we haven't had such a great D in nearly 30 years.  It is a supreme thrill to sit and watch them make play after play, over and over.
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