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Author Topic: Mike O'Shea  (Read 21422 times)
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« on: August 20, 2020, 04:20:26 AM »

Mike O'Shea has been the subject of both criticism and praise by Bomber fans and un-fans over the years he has been in Winnipeg.

Just want to say that his tenure thus far has been successful in building a Grey Cup winner, creating a team of players that loves him and loves playing in front of Blue Bomber fans, who entices players to want to play for the Bombers and who is arguably the greatest supporter of the CFL in the league.

Given all of this, we can expect continued success for several years to come IMHO.  The average tenure of a head coach is 4 to 5 years so the patience exercised to see Mike's success was wise and rewarding.  A big shout out to Mike O'Shea for the work he has done to bring a Grey Cup back to Winnipeg.
#Bombersforthewinin2021
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2020, 06:14:54 AM »

You bet!  MOS is the keystone, even more so than KW.  Not only does he get the best from players, but he picks and supports the best coordinators.  I'm sure it's a ton of MOS that led to the retention of Hall and Lapo.  Especially Hall, as many called for his head over the years.  And keeping Lapo for just "one more year" was quite a coup.

I'm in the camp of never having disparaged MOS.  I remember crowds at IGF actually calling for his head.  I just shook my head.

If we ever get back to Bomber ball, MOS could turn into one of our all-time great coaches, especially if he gets us another cup in the next 3 years.  Me, I'll be satisfied with defining HC "success" as just beating CGY in the standings and/or playoffs year after year.
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2020, 10:36:20 AM »

One thing I want to emphasize is that O'Shea, McManus and Walters are pals.  Many years ago, when all three were at the end of their careers as players or already retired, I saw them and others out socially.  They were certainly a clear relaxed relationship,,as they were what could be commonly characterized, " out with the boys."

I don't know how Wade fit in, but, together they have formed a pretty good operational /management team.
I can only imagine their personal way of doing things and philosophies meshed.

After a few years, it resulted in success.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2020, 12:49:29 PM »

I still don't like O'Shea.
We're just slightly above .500 with him at HC over his 7 year tenure.
It took him 6 years to win a playoff game.
He's now 1 game above .500 in the playoffs because he won 3 last year. 
His best regular season finish is 2nd in the West and that only happened once.
We were 3rd in the West, 4th in the league last year, one win better than Montreal under a rookie HC
Our Grey Cup win was much like the way the Stamps beat us in 2001, came from 3rd in the West to beat the #1 team. 
If we hadn't won a playoff game last year, I think he would have been fired. If he'd only won 1 playoff game he might have been fired.
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2020, 03:03:04 PM »

I still don't like O'Shea.
We're just slightly above .500 with him at HC over his 7 year tenure.
It took him 6 years to win a playoff game.
He's now 1 game above .500 in the playoffs because he won 3 last year. 
His best regular season finish is 2nd in the West and that only happened once.
We were 3rd in the West, 4th in the league last year, one win better than Montreal under a rookie HC
Our Grey Cup win was much like the way the Stamps beat us in 2001, came from 3rd in the West to beat the #1 team. 
If we hadn't won a playoff game last year, I think he would have been fired. If he'd only won 1 playoff game he might have been fired.

Lol.
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2020, 04:19:27 PM »

We won a grey cup for the first time in 3 decades.

- All past criticisms were entirely fair and warranted
- All past sins are completely forgiven now with the championship
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2020, 04:29:46 PM »

We won a grey cup for the first time in 3 decades.

- All past criticisms were entirely fair and warranted
- All past sins are completely forgiven now with the championship

As they say, " what have you done for us lately ". Well he won the Grey Cup and built an entertaining team that was becoming more successful year to year.

Previous learning curve or not, he has us where we want to be today. Our 2020 team roster was looking pretty good. How things look going into 2021 became more complicated with this season being cancelled.
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2020, 04:49:08 PM »

Lol.
What an insightful post!  Roll Eyes It's this kind of in depth analysis that keeps me coming back here.  Grin
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 07:06:35 PM by TBURGESS » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2020, 04:50:38 PM »

I still don't like O'Shea.
We're just slightly above .500 with him at HC over his 7 year tenure.
It took him 6 years to win a playoff game.
He's now 1 game above .500 in the playoffs because he won 3 last year. 
His best regular season finish is 2nd in the West and that only happened once.
We were 3rd in the West, 4th in the league last year, one win better than Montreal under a rookie HC
Our Grey Cup win was much like the way the Stamps beat us in 2001, came from 3rd in the West to beat the #1 team. 
If we hadn't won a playoff game last year, I think he would have been fired. If he'd only won 1 playoff game he might have been fired.
LMAO  There is no pleasing you mr powers!
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2020, 05:44:10 PM »

LMAO  There is no pleasing you mr powers!
Not true, I'm very pleased about the GC win.
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2020, 06:50:53 PM »

He  also stopped wearing shorts
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2020, 08:14:02 PM »

What an insightful post!  Roll Eyes It's this kind of in depth analysis that keeps me coming back here.  Grin

Sometimes you just have to laugh. We've already been over this a handful of times. If you look at his record over the last three or four years it's substantially better than barely above .500. The rest of your post is trying to present facts in the most negative light possible (he's over .500 in the playoffs but...).

He won the Grey Cup. That's good. You can dislike the most successful coach the organization has had in three decades if you want, but it's a pretty stupid opinion. Some folks will just never be happy and you're apparently one of them.
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2020, 09:53:03 PM »

Sometimes you just have to laugh. We've already been over this a handful of times. If you look at his record over the last three or four years it's substantially better than barely above .500. The rest of your post is trying to present facts in the most negative light possible (he's over .500 in the playoffs but...).

He won the Grey Cup. That's good. You can dislike the most successful coach the organization has had in three decades if you want, but it's a pretty stupid opinion. Some folks will just never be happy and you're apparently one of them.
Slow clap Gold hat Slow clap!
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2020, 10:37:23 PM »

Man I can?t even believe we re having this conversation, talk about ungrateful.

Forget his wins and losses/playoff record, he had such a stinking mess to cleanup, it took years to do, years. We went through OC, DC and ST coaches before we got it right. MOS made his share of rookie coaching mistakes, but we re beyond that now.

We are now a well respected organization and opponents know they are going to get both barrels when they play us. The team loves MOS and play their hearts out for him. The Bombers were so much better and played with so much more intensity than the ticats last year in the grey cup it was embarrassing for them.

Kudos MOS and here?s hoping we get through this covid crap and get back to business next season!!
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2020, 11:39:47 PM »

When Mr. O'Shea was announced as our coach, I figured he'd instill that hard-nosed brand of football from his playing days.
No longer are we a 'free space on the bingo card' - teams actually don't like to play us now !
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« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2020, 02:51:56 AM »

He didn't have the greatest start and he can be stubborn but he also learned and got better. There is no one in the CFL I would want more right now to be HC.
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2020, 03:51:26 AM »

I still don't like O'Shea.
We're just slightly above .500 with him at HC over his 7 year tenure.
It took him 6 years to win a playoff game.
He's now 1 game above .500 in the playoffs because he won 3 last year. 
His best regular season finish is 2nd in the West and that only happened once.
We were 3rd in the West, 4th in the league last year, one win better than Montreal under a rookie HC
Our Grey Cup win was much like the way the Stamps beat us in 2001, came from 3rd in the West to beat the #1 team. 
If we hadn't won a playoff game last year, I think he would have been fired. If he'd only won 1 playoff game he might have been fired.
You are wrong.  He turned this team around, brought stability, success and respect back to this club.  Wow.

The anti MOS and Hall movement on this forum over the last 3 year by some was about as nauseating as it gets.

Great coach!

He didn't have the greatest start and he can be stubborn but he also learned and got better. There is no one in the CFL I would want more right now to be HC.

Sums it up nicely.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 03:59:57 AM by pjrocksmb » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2020, 09:32:57 AM »

TB is 100% right on the facts.  No argument.  However, that doesn't define what MOS now means to this club.

TB: don't you agree it was likely that 2020 Bombers were going to have a great record and go deep in the playoffs, had there been a normal season?  I do.  MOS finally has the team where he wants it, and we all get the covid shaft.  Argh.

MOS has grown a lot.  When our QB and D were lousy (pre-Nichols for one, pre-Bighill for the other) WPG was the "trick play" team.  We also relied on the risky turnover play by our D.  There's the still the residual of the "trick play" paradigm when the commentators commentate on our games.  Even in the 2019 playoffs and GC the color guys would mention it.  Funny, because I think we did all of 1 or 2 trick plays in the entire 2019.  But in '14-'17 we did trick plays all the time on ST and O.  We had to or we had no hope.  It was high risk, high reward -- or a loss.

Slowly, piece by piece, MOS (with KW) built a team modelled after 2010-2019 CGY.  Very few tricks.  Just hard-nosed straight-laced football.  Just beat teams by the book.  Sure, Lapo would come up with wacky X/O's, but instead of high-risk, they were mostly low-risk, mostly run plays and short passes.  But very little you'd call "tricks".

The difference in MOS, the players, and the play calls from early MOS to now is astounding.  (I have the early-MOS years on PVR and I watch them once in a while.)

I think they out-CGY'd CGY in 2019, and if we can resemble the 2019 team in 2021, and if the CFL isn't a whole new world, we can probably carry the momentum.
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2020, 12:25:32 PM »

I expect we'd have been a middle of the road team again this season if there were one and it could go to lousy if Collaros got injured again and he's always injured. No Streveler to bail us out this year either. That's what we've been under MOS. A middle of the road team that had a great playoff run last year. We were not the dominant team that the fans like to think we were in 2019. We were just dominant in the playoffs.

Walters deserves more of the credit than he gets IMO. Without the last minute Collaros trade, we're one and done in the playoffs again last year. PLAP deserves more of the credit too. His boring, low risk offence put points on the board when it mattered despite having to use 3 different starting QB's.

MOS is way better now than when we first hired him. He's learned a lot over 7 years. He's still well down the list of best Bomber HC's IMO.
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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2020, 12:52:54 PM »

No question that Lapo, Hall and Walters deserve much of the credit for the success, at least as much as O'Shea. 

Where I would differ with TBurg is that I believe the 2019 Bombers were not middle of the road, they were a championship caliber team whose starting QB went MIA half way through the year.  But agree that without the trade for Collaros, it likely ends dismally.

The 2020 team was shaping up nicely, but there were still some major unanswered questions:  would Collaros hold up, can we transition to a new OC, can the secondary be reconstructed to account for Sayles and Rose?  We could have been anywhere from middle of the pack to top dog. 

I am a fan of the culture O'Shea has built, it is clear it helps to attract players. 

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« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2020, 12:56:19 PM »

Agree he is better and has learned a-lot in the past few years. Anyway you spin it. I think if the stamps bounced us in the playoffs. We would be have a new coach. Mgt couldn't keep telling fans, "wait to next year".
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« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2020, 01:37:24 PM »

I expect we'd have been a middle of the road team again this season if there were one and it could go to lousy if Collaros got injured again and he's always injured. No Streveler to bail us out this year either. That's what we've been under MOS. A middle of the road team that had a great playoff run last year. We were not the dominant team that the fans like to think we were in 2019. We were just dominant in the playoffs.

Walters deserves more of the credit than he gets IMO. Without the last minute Collaros trade, we're one and done in the playoffs again last year. PLAP deserves more of the credit too. His boring, low risk offence put points on the board when it mattered despite having to use 3 different starting QB's.

MOS is way better now than when we first hired him. He's learned a lot over 7 years. He's still well down the list of best Bomber HC's IMO.

How far down?

He's got 1 Grey Cup and a .519 winning percentage. That's a better win percentage than every coach after Dave Richie (1999 - 2004). Of course Dave doesn't have the Grey Cup. Want to find a coach with a better win percentage and Grey Cup win? You have to go all the way back to Mike Reilly (1987-1990, .556, 2 GCs) and Cal Murphy (1983-1986, .659, 1 GC).

He ranks 2nd all time in the franchise's head coaching wins next to only Bud Grant. As much as you wanted to paint his playoff winning percentage in a bad light, it's actually 4th best in franchise history looking at the modern era onward (Jan 1958 to today). He has a better playoff winning percentage than Mike Reilly.

Factually, he's an easy case for top 5, and not an unreasonable case for top 3. Certainly the most successful head coach we've had in 20 years and to find someone who's done significantly better you have to go back 30.

Those are just the straight facts.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 01:48:40 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2020, 05:42:01 PM »

I'd put O'Shea at 6th in the Bomber HC list, behind Bud Grant, Ray Jauch, Cal Murphy, Mike Riley and Dave Richie (In chronological order). I watched most of those teams to come to my conclusion. (I only saw the tail end of the Bud Grant era and I was young at the time, but his GC wins speak for themselves.)

Stats, especially cherry picked stats, don't tell the whole story.

MOS is 2nd in wins because he's 2nd in games coached. Most of our coaches didn't last more than a couple of years. Even the good ones only lasted 4 or 5 years. O'Shea has 7 years. Richie is only 4 wins behind him and he only had 4.5 years behind the bench.

It's not about raw number of wins anyway. O'Shea is 9th in win percent in your 'modern era' starting in '58. All 5 of my choices have better winning %'s than MOS. 3 of them have better playoff win %. Two have more GC's and Cal ties him at 1.

O'Shea's playoff win % went from 16% in 2018 to 57% last year. That's indicative of one great playoff run, not an overall great playoff coach.

Quite frankly, Doug Berry got more out of sub par talent than MOS ever did. MOS got better at the same pace as the players and coaches got better. He likely asked for the players he wanted, but it's Walters job to get them and fit them in the SMS. He stuck by under performing coaches and players longer than he should. He was rewarded with a magical playoff run last year.
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« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2020, 09:12:38 PM »

Cherry picked stats? They were the most logical ones to look at when evaluating the success of a head coach. They were: winning percentage, playoff winning percentage, games won and championship wins. Nothing "cherry picked". What else is more important and tells a more complete story? Hint: there isn't any.

Coaching for a longer length of time should be seen as an achievement and not an asterix. Dave Richie was fired because he started the 2004 season 2-5 and was last in the West division. He would have kept coaching if we'd let him, but we didn't, because the results weren't there. You mentioned Doug Berry. He finished with a 27-26-1 record and had no longevity because players don't like getting screamed at from golf carts forever.

I get you don't like O'Shea for whatever reason, that's fine. But I stand by the stats that he's easily a top 5 coach and most neutral observers can at least see why a case could be made for top 3.
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« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2020, 10:16:53 PM »

Cherry picked stats? They were the most logical ones to look at when evaluating the success of a head coach. They were: winning percentage, playoff winning percentage, games won and championship wins. Nothing "cherry picked". What else would is more important that tells a more complete story? Hint: there isn't any.

Coaching for a longer length of time should be seen as an achievement and not an asterix. Dave Richie was fired because he started the 2004 season 2-5 and was last in the West division. He would have kept coaching if we'd let him, but we didn't, because the results weren't there. You mentioned Doug Berry. He finished with a 27-26-1 record and had no longevity because players don't like getting screamed at from golf carts forever.

I get you don't like O'Shea for whatever reason, that's fine. But I stand by the stats that he's easily a top 5 coach and most neutral observers can at least see why a case could be made for top 3.


Excellent post.  I loved Dave and I love MOS. 

We would have been a very good ball club this year.
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« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2020, 04:57:05 AM »

Quite frankly, Doug Berry got more out of sub par talent than MOS ever did. MOS got better at the same pace as the players and coaches got better. He likely asked for the players he wanted, but it's Walters job to get them and fit them in the SMS. He stuck by under performing coaches and players longer than he should. He was rewarded with a magical playoff run last year.

Again, you're looking at the past.  Did MOS do that in 2019?  Nope.  MOS was ruthless with underperformers last year.  Look at the quick dumping or benching of Matthews, Hume, Gaitor, Fenner, Hecht, Rios, etc. -- and the ultimate non-loyalty move of going with Collaros over Strev and McGuire.  It's even more remarkable because many of those guys were playing good ball.  But MOS was quick to put "even better" on the field.  Heck, at times I thought MOS was insane as he was benching guys right when it looked like they were really starting to shine: e.g. Fenner, Gaitor.

(And don't say he was too loyal to Hecht and played him too long... that was a ratio thing.)

Nope, MOS made none of the "loyalty mistakes" in 2019 that he did in prior years.  KW kept hauling the talent in all year and MOS kept tweaking the lineup until it was perfection.  And our D certainly was perfection by the post-season.

Like I said, MOS learned and now has it pretty nailed down.  I think he listened to all his (constructive) critics and criticism over these years and took it all to heart.  That plus emulating "the CGY method" created the best Bomber team we've had in 20+ years, IMHO.

If CFL returns to normal, I would wager you that MOS will be in your top-3 WFC coaches before he moves on.
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« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2020, 01:21:57 PM »

Again, you're looking at the past.  Did MOS do that in 2019?  Nope.  MOS was ruthless with underperformers last year.  Look at the quick dumping or benching of Matthews, Hume, Gaitor, Fenner, Hecht, Rios, etc. -- and the ultimate non-loyalty move of going with Collaros over Strev and McGuire.  It's even more remarkable because many of those guys were playing good ball.  But MOS was quick to put "even better" on the field.  Heck, at times I thought MOS was insane as he was benching guys right when it looked like they were really starting to shine: e.g. Fenner, Gaitor.

(And don't say he was too loyal to Hecht and played him too long... that was a ratio thing.)

Nope, MOS made none of the "loyalty mistakes" in 2019 that he did in prior years.  KW kept hauling the talent in all year and MOS kept tweaking the lineup until it was perfection.  And our D certainly was perfection by the post-season.

Like I said, MOS learned and now has it pretty nailed down.  I think he listened to all his (constructive) critics and criticism over these years and took it all to heart.  That plus emulating "the CGY method" created the best Bomber team we've had in 20+ years, IMHO.

If CFL returns to normal, I would wager you that MOS will be in your top-3 WFC coaches before he moves on.
I'm looking at MOS's entire career, not just last year. That's how you properly assess a career. If you're arguing that MOS had a good year last year, then I agree. If the argument is that MOS is a great coach, then I don't.

Last year was the first time that they didn't just go with the guys that had been with the team for the entire year. They actually kept bringing players in until the final day, which is one of the big reasons that they turned the corner in the playoffs. Notice that I'm saying they, not MOS, because it's Walters who brought them in.

MOS went with Collaros when Streveler got injured. McGuire didn't have a single start under his belt. That's not the ultimate non-loyalty move. It's the only move to make if you want to win. MOS wouldn't have won any playoff games and would likely have been fired if he didn't make that move.

Cherry picked stats? They were the most logical ones to look at when evaluating the success of a head coach. They were: winning percentage, playoff winning percentage, games won and championship wins. Nothing "cherry picked". What else is more important and tells a more complete story? Hint: there isn't any.

Coaching for a longer length of time should be seen as an achievement and not an asterix. Dave Richie was fired because he started the 2004 season 2-5 and was last in the West division. He would have kept coaching if we'd let him, but we didn't, because the results weren't there. You mentioned Doug Berry. He finished with a 27-26-1 record and had no longevity because players don't like getting screamed at from golf carts forever.

I get you don't like O'Shea for whatever reason, that's fine. But I stand by the stats that he's easily a top 5 coach and most neutral observers can at least see why a case could be made for top 3.
The raw, non cherry picked stats with some context:

Winning % - MOS is 9th in the modern era.

Playoff Win % - MOS is 4th after last year's 3 wins. He was 16% before that which was the worst playoff record of any bomber HC.

I'd expect that the 2nd most games coached would equal the 2nd most wins. There would be something terribly wrong if that wasn't true. It speaks to management having MOS' back more than MOS having a great coaching career.

MOS has 2 missed playoffs, 3 3rds and a 2nd on his resume. That doesn't speak of dominant teams.

Now you know the story behind the stats.
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« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2020, 02:33:50 PM »

I'm looking at MOS's entire career, not just last year. That's how you properly assess a career. If you're arguing that MOS had a good year last year, then I agree. If the argument is that MOS is a great coach, then I don't.

Last year was the first time that they didn't just go with the guys that had been with the team for the entire year. They actually kept bringing players in until the final day, which is one of the big reasons that they turned the corner in the playoffs. Notice that I'm saying they, not MOS, because it's Walters who brought them in.

MOS went with Collaros when Streveler got injured. McGuire didn't have a single start under his belt. That's not the ultimate non-loyalty move. It's the only move to make if you want to win. MOS wouldn't have won any playoff games and would likely have been fired if he didn't make that move.
The raw, non cherry picked stats with some context:

Winning % - MOS is 9th in the modern era.

Playoff Win % - MOS is 4th after last year's 3 wins. He was 16% before that which was the worst playoff record of any bomber HC.

I'd expect that the 2nd most games coached would equal the 2nd most wins. There would be something terribly wrong if that wasn't true. It speaks to management having MOS' back more than MOS having a great coaching career.

MOS has 2 missed playoffs, 3 3rds and a 2nd on his resume. That doesn't speak of dominant teams.

Now you know the story behind the stats.

Lol, "the story behind the stats". Whenever someone has to say that, they're doing their best to discredit raw stats. You might think he's not a good coach, but the fact is he's accomplished more than any Bomber coach in 30 years. The only other guys of note that won Grey Cups are: Bud Grant (4), Mike Reilly (2), Cal Murphy (1) and Mike O'Shea (1).

That's a pretty good list to be on. And by the way, your bias is showing big time when you want to credit Walters for all the good stuff. Grant, Reilly and Murphy all had really good teams to work with too. But their GMs don't get all the credit, right? You need good coaching and managing to be successful in any professional sport.
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« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2020, 04:33:25 PM »

I'm not discrediting the stats. I'm explaining them.

I'm not giving Walters credit for everything. I'm giving him credit for bringing in the players and fitting them in under the SMS, because that's his job. I'm not giving credit to any of the other HC's for their GM work either.

We're not that much apart actually. Your love and bias for MOS puts him at 4th based on his Grey Cup win. My bias and hate puts him at 6th based on everything, including the Grey Cup win.
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« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2020, 05:43:03 AM »

I'd guess during the season KW doesn't make too many acquisition moves without major consultation with MOS and the appropriate coord.  I bet MOS points out positional weaknesses and maybe even potential candidates and KW makes it happen.

KW doesn't just suddenly bring in a Maston or a Taylor for no reason and tell MOS to play them.

My point about placing more emphasis on 2019 is that I think the choices and methodology we saw in 2019 is MOS.  It wasn't the aberration: it's the cumulative result of all his years of growth and study.  You make it sound like 2020 could have been another 2014 MOS.  I'm saying that's impossible.  One thing you notice studying MOS and KW is that it's +1 every single year.  I think they are brilliant at it.
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« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2020, 01:48:25 PM »

Walters and MOS work together to bring in players. I doubt it's all one or the other, but once the decision is made, it's all on Walters to get it done. It was Walters on the phone the last day trades were allowed that got the Collaros trade together.

My point is that 2014 MOS and 2019 MOS are the same coach. All parts of his coaching career need to be taken into account when one decides on how good a coach he is.

Last season was much like most MOS seasons. Some good, some bad resulting in 4th overall, which is slightly above average. The Colloros trade was the difference between one and done in the playoffs and the Grey Cup. The Grey Cup run is the difference between MOS' current god like status and being fired for 1 playoff win in 7 seasons. 6 years of average to below average +1 2nd place finish and 1 brilliant playoff run doesn't equal great in my mind. If he does it again next year, then I'll change my mind.
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« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2020, 10:04:08 PM »

Walters and MOS work together to bring in players. I doubt it's all one or the other, but once the decision is made, it's all on Walters to get it done. It was Walters on the phone the last day trades were allowed that got the Collaros trade together.

My point is that 2014 MOS and 2019 MOS are the same coach. All parts of his coaching career need to be taken into account when one decides on how good a coach he is.

Last season was much like most MOS seasons. Some good, some bad resulting in 4th overall, which is slightly above average. The Colloros trade was the difference between one and done in the playoffs and the Grey Cup. The Grey Cup run is the difference between MOS' current god like status and being fired for 1 playoff win in 7 seasons. 6 years of average to below average +1 2nd place finish and 1 brilliant playoff run doesn't equal great in my mind. If he does it again next year, then I'll change my mind.

If you had made the assertion earlier that Mike O'Shea has not accomplished enough to be considered a great coach yet, I doubt you would have got nearly as much opposition. But that's not how you were spinning it.

I think he's proven to be a very good coach. It took him a some time to get there, but so what. The management believed in him and their patience was rewarded. Sure, he may have been fired if he was one and done. That's the nature of pro sports. I guarantee though, he would have been signed by another team to a long term contract just as soon as legally possible. That's based on his results, grey cup or no grey cup, or however you want to spin it.
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« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2020, 11:38:18 PM »

Walters is the hero.  He. Got Colaros.
Oshea as the head coach is to manage the coaches/game plan promote the team philosophy and create a positive environment.

He enabled his coordinator's, took the flack public ally, and aaa former player, knew to let the leaders lead. He made in clear from day one it was the players team and they were the ones who earned the victories. Veteran players stepped up and lead.

By the end of the season all components came together.
Cudos is to Miller.

Some people watch things happen,
Some people wonder what happened
Winners make things happen.  The last one applies to Miller and Walters. Lapo, O'Shea, Andrew, and Bighill.n those last two players rarely lost a one on one battle.  Andrew literally willed yardage to be gained.
Lots of fun to watch excellence, attitude and execution perform.
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« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2020, 01:59:45 AM »

O'Shea has grown immensely since his rookie HC season. This process took time but he's done something no other HC here has done since the late, great Cal Murphy in the early 90s: four straight winning seasons and playoff berths, coming off a championship run - ending the league's longest drought.

How is that not anything but a great achievement? Moreover, pro sports are about "what you've done lately" and not "what you did or didn't do four or five years ago." Sure, look at this whole picture but recency matters.
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« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2020, 02:04:42 AM »

Agreed. Stuff that happened 5 years ago is totally irrelevant. He's created a clubhouse that's a desired destination and a work ethic amongst the players in that locker room that is second to none in the league.
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« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2020, 03:18:57 AM »

Walters is the hero.  He. Got Colaros.
Oshea as the head coach is to manage the coaches/game plan promote the team philosophy and create a positive environment.

He enabled his coordinator's, took the flack public ally, and aaa former player, knew to let the leaders lead. He made in clear from day one it was the players team and they were the ones who earned the victories. Veteran players stepped up and lead.

By the end of the season all components came together.
Cudos is to Miller.

Some people watch things happen,
Some people wonder what happened
Winners make things happen.  The last one applies to Miller and Walters. Lapo, O'Shea, Andrew, and Bighill.n those last two players rarely lost a one on one battle.  Andrew literally willed yardage to be gained.
Lots of fun to watch excellence, attitude and execution perform.

Here's the thing....you don't know who initiated the request for Collaros, Harris or Bighill.  It COULD have been Mike O'Shea and Walters made the arrangements.  Equal kudos go to O'Shea, Walters, Miller, LaPolice, all of who probably had a hand in these signings. 

Equally true is that the coaching staff, headed by Mike O'Shea, molded the talent and coached the final run to, and winning, the Grey Cup.
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« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2020, 08:47:42 AM »

The Grey Cup run is the difference between MOS' current god like status and being fired for 1 playoff win in 7 seasons. 6 years of average to below average +1 2nd place finish and 1 brilliant playoff run doesn't equal great in my mind. If he does it again next year, then I'll change my mind.

Fair enough.  We're going to hold you to that!!
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« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2020, 06:57:20 PM »

MOS has gotten better every year. He is no longer standing back and letting his ***. Coaches run the show. MOS is stepping in when needed and making moves. On top of that the players respect him. He is not only a coach but only of the best LB's that has played in the CFL. In my view you don't just become a HC over night.

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« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2020, 07:29:02 PM »

O'Shea has grown immensely since his rookie HC season. This process took time but he's done something no other HC here has done since the late, great Cal Murphy in the early 90s: four straight winning seasons and playoff berths, coming off a championship run - ending the league's longest drought.

How is that not anything but a great achievement? Moreover, pro sports are about "what you've done lately" and not "what you did or didn't do four or five years ago." Sure, look at this whole picture but recency matters.

Exactly. The guy is 44 - 28 (.611) in the last four seasons.
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« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2020, 07:36:59 PM »

Exactly. The guy is 44 - 28 (.611) in the last four seasons.

With a 4-3 record (.571) in the playoffs, currently riding a three-game win streak with a Grey Cup as icing on the cake. 2016 through 2019 has been very successful for him, even if the first two post-seasons went poorly.

Amazing what getting hot at the right time can do not only for a team but a head coach's statistics.
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« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2020, 01:29:53 PM »

Here's the thing....you don't know who initiated the request for Collaros, Harris or Bighill.  It COULD have been Mike O'Shea and Walters made the arrangements.  Equal kudos go to O'Shea, Walters, Miller, LaPolice, all of who probably had a hand in these signings. 

Equally true is that the coaching staff, headed by Mike O'Shea, molded the talent and coached the final run to, and winning, the Grey Cup.
It might have been MOS and it might not have been, yet folks want to give him all the credit. I agree that the 4 guys you mentioned likely have a hand in all the decisions. I'd say that that talent level was built by all of them plus the scouts and Richie Hall.

Collaros starting wasn't a great coaching decision and it might have been PLAP's choice anyway, because MOS isn't exactly a offensive genius. If Streveler hadn't gotten injured, we may never have seen Collaros at all. It's one of the big changes that was forced on MOS by injury that turned out to be great and it led to the grey cup that people are using to elevate MOS' stature as a coach.

We got Bighill because 'he who must not be named'/'Double Dooch' took his signing bonus and retired. That gave us SMS room that no other team, especially BC, had in May 2018. It was a no brainer to go after Bighill, not a great MOS, et all decision. A board member got him a non-football job to sweeten the deal when he re-signed.

You can't simply look at the last 4 games and declare MOS a great coach. You have to look at his entire career. Both the good and the bad. You have to look at the decisions he made vs the ones that were forced on him. You have to look at if he elevated average talent or if he's only good with great talent. You have to look at how many years it took him to learn his job. How many years it took to get a playoff win. How many 2nd's, 3rd's and out of the playoffs in the west. You have to decide if last year is the new normal or is it the outlier.
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« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2020, 01:40:30 PM »

It might have been MOS and it might not have been, yet folks want to give him all the credit. I agree that the 4 guys you mentioned likely have a hand in all the decisions. I'd say that that talent level was built by all of them plus the scouts and Richie Hall.

Collaros starting wasn't a great coaching decision and it might have been PLAP's choice anyway, because MOS isn't exactly a offensive genius. If Streveler hadn't gotten injured, we may never have seen Collaros at all. It's one of the big changes that was forced on MOS by injury that turned out to be great and it led to the grey cup that people are using to elevate MOS' stature as a coach.

We got Bighill because 'he who must not be named'/'Double Dooch' took his signing bonus and retired. That gave us SMS room that no other team, especially BC, had in May 2018. It was a no brainer to go after Bighill, not a great MOS, et all decision. A board member got him a non-football job to sweeten the deal when he re-signed.

You can't simply look at the last 4 games and declare MOS a great coach. You have to look at his entire career. Both the good and the bad. You have to look at the decisions he made vs the ones that were forced on him. You have to look at if he elevated average talent or if he's only good with great talent. You have to look at how many years it took him to learn his job. How many years it took to get a playoff win. How many 2nd's, 3rd's and out of the playoffs in the west. You have to decide if last year is the new normal or is it the outlier.

You are intentionally downplaying the O'Shea connection for Adam Bighill. Adam has said it a few times that O'Shea was one of the big reasons Bighill decided to come here. Obviously we needed cap space to sign him (like any team would, plus a motivated GM, etc.) but not sure the deal would have got done without Mike.

Here's one article about O'Shea's importance:

O'Shea was the special teams co-ordinator for Toronto at the time and his Argonauts had just played the Lions late in the season. After the game, O'Shea walked over to Bighill.

"He came up and said, 'Hey, I really respect the way you play the game. You're a great football player and just kind of keep doing what you're doing,"' Bighill recalled

"It's kind of every year we played each other, we definitely made time to talk, say hello and catch up. So that's where that respect (for O'Shea) kind of started."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/bombers-adam-bighill-1.4677305
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« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2020, 04:47:42 PM »

I have read all the MOS banter and the Golden Hat is clearly winning this debate! Congrats Golden Hat.
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« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2020, 07:07:10 PM »

That is a. Nice hat!
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« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2020, 07:31:51 PM »

You are intentionally downplaying the O'Shea connection for Adam Bighill. Adam has said it a few times that O'Shea was one of the big reasons Bighill decided to come here. Obviously we needed cap space to sign him (like any team would, plus a motivated GM, etc.) but not sure the deal would have got done without Mike.

Here's one article about O'Shea's importance:

O'Shea was the special teams co-ordinator for Toronto at the time and his Argonauts had just played the Lions late in the season. After the game, O'Shea walked over to Bighill.

"He came up and said, 'Hey, I really respect the way you play the game. You're a great football player and just kind of keep doing what you're doing,"' Bighill recalled

"It's kind of every year we played each other, we definitely made time to talk, say hello and catch up. So that's where that respect (for O'Shea) kind of started."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/bombers-adam-bighill-1.4677305

Nicely done. It's almost too easy sometimes. Grin

And FWIW, the last four years have been the new normal. You know, based on that shiny .611 winning percentage since 2016.
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« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2020, 12:41:40 PM »

If we don't have the money, it doesn't matter if Bighill likes or dislikes MOS.

If the new normal is the last 4 years then we're a slightly above average team that got lucky one playoff season.
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« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2020, 03:05:55 PM »

Got lucky... LOL Cheesy

Man, it never ends.
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« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2020, 03:34:30 PM »

If we don't have the money, it doesn't matter if Bighill likes or dislikes MOS.

If the new normal is the last 4 years then we're a slightly above average team that got lucky one playoff season.

You don't win 4 consecutive, tough games at the end of the season, including the league championship because you are "lucky".  Makes zero sense.

What does make sense is the fact you have the talent and coaching to pull that off.
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« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2020, 04:23:51 PM »

We had a good football team in 2019. Lost in all this banter, is we lost our starting Qb and had to bring in another, who some had written off as dead and laughed at us for bringing in ZC.

 Also lost in all this, is the impact our D line and pressure had on unravelling Evans in the GC. To me, the turning point for us was when we signed Willie Jefferson and got immediate impact/pressure/plays on defense.

We had a good team that got on a roll at the right time of the year. I don't think it was luck, although we had to have some bounces go our way, but moreso perserverence. This team rallied around the injury to Nichols and used it as motivation, along with the Andrew Harris snubbing, and used it to 'stick it to them' as voiced by Harris in his GC MVP speech.
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« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2020, 05:37:00 PM »

The change at Safety was also another big move the MOS made late in the year. This shored up a big problem for D.
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« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2020, 07:30:58 PM »

If we don't have the money, it doesn't matter if Bighill likes or dislikes MOS.

If the new normal is the last 4 years then we're a slightly above average team that got lucky one playoff season.

44-28 is not luck. And looking at the playoffs only, O'Shea and the rest of the organization has been trending upwards since 2014. It's about as clear as it could be:

2014 - missed playoffs
2015 - missed playoffs
2016 - lost division semi-final
2017 - lost division semi-final
2018 - lost division final
2019 - won Grey Cup

If you wanted to graph it, it would be a steady line graph going upwards in a 45 degree angle. That's not the way "luck" looks. It is what steady and continuous improvement looks like though.

If you want an example of luck, because lucky wins do happen (especially in the CFL) you can look to the Toronto Argonauts:

2014 - Missed playoffs
2015 - lost division semi-final
2016 - missed playoffs
2017 - won Grey Cup
2018 - missed playoffs
2019 - missed playoffs

The Argos graph looks very different. You can see that. I can see that. Everyone can see that.
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« Reply #51 on: August 26, 2020, 09:50:57 PM »

It?s funny, I always wondered what TBurg would be like after we won a championship and if he would continue to play the always-negative-character on here, or if he could let go of the whole contrarian MO thing.

Shine on, you diamond
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« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2020, 12:40:46 AM »

Somewhere, Aardsy is blushing.
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« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2020, 06:54:38 AM »

Somewhere, Aardsy is blushing.

Ya, where is Aards.  I need some new gear, so I'll stop in his store sometime in the next while and ask.
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« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2020, 10:06:40 AM »

Certainly, OShea was a great football player, and now he, Walters and Wade have transitioned into a great management team.  The players put it together, and. Voila, official CFL champions.  They proved it! We all should be happy!
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« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2020, 01:33:24 PM »

44-28 is not luck. And looking at the playoffs only, O'Shea and the rest of the organization has been trending upwards since 2014. It's about as clear as it could be:

2014 - missed playoffs
2015 - missed playoffs
2016 - lost division semi-final
2017 - lost division semi-final
2018 - lost division final
2019 - won Grey Cup

If you wanted to graph it, it would be a steady line graph going upwards in a 45 degree angle. That's not the way "luck" looks. It is what steady and continuous improvement looks like though.
2014 - No playoffs - 7-11
2015 - No playoffs- 5-13
2016 - One and done - 11-7 (3rdW,3rdOA)
2017 - One and done - 12-6 (2ndW, Tied for 2ndOA)
2018 - One and one - 10-8 (3rdW, 4thOA)
2019 - 3 and 0 - 11-7(3rdW, 4thOA)

It's not steady improvement each year. Neither our playoff record, nor our standings are 45 degree angle graphs. Last year was the first time we were better than one and done in the playoffs. 2017 We were tied for 2nd overall with Edmonton, then we fell back to 4th overall for the last 2 years. 2019 is clearly the outlier (Better word than Lucky, my bad) on the playoff graph.
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« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2020, 01:45:12 PM »

2014 - No playoffs - 7-11
2015 - No playoffs- 5-13
2016 - One and done - 11-7 (3rdW,3rdOA)
2017 - One and done - 12-6 (2ndW, Tied for 2ndOA)
2018 - One and one - 10-8 (3rdW, 4thOA)
2019 - 3 and 0 - 11-7(3rdW, 4thOA)

It's not steady improvement each year. Neither our playoff record, nor our standings are 45 degree angle graphs. Last year was the first time we were better than one and done in the playoffs. 2017 We were tied for 2nd overall with Edmonton, then we fell back to 4th overall for the last 2 years. 2019 is clearly the outlier (Better word than Lucky, my bad) on the playoff graph.

No it?s not. We won the WSF in Regina in 2018.

We went from no playoffs for the first two years, to One-and-done for the next two, to winning one playoff game the next, to winning three playoff games the next, culminating in the championship. That?s an overall improvement in playoff success with no regressions.
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« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2020, 02:50:32 PM »

2014 - No playoffs - 7-11
2015 - No playoffs- 5-13
2016 - One and done - 11-7 (3rdW,3rdOA)
2017 - One and done - 12-6 (2ndW, Tied for 2ndOA)
2018 - One and one - 10-8 (3rdW, 4thOA)
2019 - 3 and 0 - 11-7(3rdW, 4thOA)

It's not steady improvement each year. Neither our playoff record, nor our standings are 45 degree angle graphs. Last year was the first time we were better than one and done in the playoffs. 2017 We were tied for 2nd overall with Edmonton, then we fell back to 4th overall for the last 2 years. 2019 is clearly the outlier (Better word than Lucky, my bad) on the playoff graph.

Umm no, incorrect. Not one and done in 2018. I can put it another way it you like.

2016 - lost west semi
2017 - lost west semi
2018 - won west semi, lost west final
2019 - won west semi, won west final, won Grey Cup

That's literally stepping stone progress.
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« Reply #58 on: August 27, 2020, 03:00:09 PM »

No it?s not. We won the WSF in Regina in 2018.

We went from no playoffs for the first two years, to One-and-done for the next two, to winning one playoff game the next, to winning three playoff games the next, culminating in the championship. That?s an overall improvement in playoff success with no regressions.
Our first playoff success was one and one in 2018. Playoff wins in MOS's tenure: 0,0,0,0,1,3 (Graph it). You can call that overall improvement in playoff success if you want, but I see it as 4 years of failure, followed by 1 and 1 and single great playoff run.
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« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2020, 03:01:43 PM »

One and one in 2018 is correct. Playoff wins in MOS's tenure: 0,0,0,0,1,3 (Graph it). You can call that overall improvement in playoff success if you want, but I see it as 4 years of failure, followed by 1 and 1 and single great playoff run.

You can't define not winning a playoff game and winning a playoff game and losing a second playoff game as "one and done". This is the CFL - you only have to win two or three games to win the thing.
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« Reply #60 on: August 27, 2020, 03:02:51 PM »

You can't define not winning a playoff game and winning a playoff game and losing a second playoff game as "one and done". This is the CFL - you only have to win two or three games to win the thing.
One and one is not equal to one and done.
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« Reply #61 on: August 27, 2020, 03:07:25 PM »

One and one is not equal to one and done.

my bad - you dropped the d. In any event, there's a clear progression of playoff success since 2016 whether you can see the forest for the trees or not. I will also add that the only real bad playoff game we have ever played under O'Shea was the 2017 west semi-final (ironically our best season).
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« Reply #62 on: August 27, 2020, 03:53:52 PM »

Our first playoff success was one and one in 2018. Playoff wins in MOS's tenure: 0,0,0,0,1,3 (Graph it). You can call that overall improvement in playoff success if you want, but I see it as 4 years of failure, followed by 1 and 1 and single great playoff run.

You do know that making the playoffs > not making the playoffs, right? Although of course you're going to say that "only playoff WINS count and nothing else matters" because it allows you to put more zeros in your posts.
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« Reply #63 on: August 27, 2020, 05:00:58 PM »

You do know that making the playoffs > not making the playoffs, right? Although of course you're going to say that "only playoff WINS count and nothing else matters" because it allows you to put more zeros in your posts.

Sure but you do know the 6 of the 9 teams make the playoffs and the east usually has 2 of them?

Just making the playoffs is not a high mark. Advancing is the goal.
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« Reply #64 on: August 27, 2020, 06:26:18 PM »

Sure but you do know the 6 of the 9 teams make the playoffs and the east usually has 2 of them?

Just making the playoffs is not a high mark. Advancing is the goal.

Yep, and we went from a garbage fire in 2013 to being a garbage fire during 2014 and 2015 as we rebuilt, then making the playoffs, then winning in the playoffs, then winning the grey cup. That is advancing. Check.
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« Reply #65 on: August 27, 2020, 06:27:14 PM »

Sure but you do know the 6 of the 9 teams make the playoffs and the east usually has 2 of them?

Just making the playoffs is not a high mark. Advancing is the goal.

Making the playoffs is not a high mark but it's still crucial. I mean, you can't make it to the big dance without first punching your ticket to it. And yes, advancing is a goal and that's something the team managed to do last season. While it took longer than I'm sure most of us wanted, they still did it and downplaying it serves no purpose.

It's ludicrous to suggest the Bombers got lucky last November and does an incredibly large disservice to the entire team, from management staff, to the coaches, to the players. Imagine walking up to a player or coach of that team and saying "Nice win and all but you guys got lucky."

It's totally baffling that we're here, nine months after the Bombers finally ended the longest active championship drought in the CFL, debating the act of going over the team's record with an overly fine toothcomb, trying to justify a seemingly irrational dislike for the head coach.

"What have you done lately?" That's one of the most important questions to ask of a team. And in this case, the Winnipeg Blue Bombers are the defending champions coming off a pretty dominant playoff run. Dissecting all the rest from months or years previous is just being needlessly nitpicky and it does nothing but undermine what they accomplished in November of last year.

Yep, and we went from a garbage fire in 2013 to being a garbage fire during 2014 and 2015 as we rebuilt, then making the playoffs, then winning in the playoffs, then winning the grey cup. That is advancing. Check.

No lies detected.
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« Reply #66 on: August 27, 2020, 06:29:37 PM »

The change at Safety was also another big move the MOS made late in the year. This shored up a big problem for D.

Definitely, the successful insertion of Maston and Nick Taylor also paid huge dividends, the D came together at just the right time.  All that is secondary to the signing of Collaros at the trade deadline, under a half-crippled Streveler the Bombers would never have gotten by Calgary in the WSF.  Hail Walters and Pinball for making the impossible, possible.
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« Reply #67 on: August 27, 2020, 06:38:29 PM »

Making the playoffs is not a high mark but it's still crucial. I mean, you can't make it to the big dance without first punching your ticket to it. And yes, advancing is a goal and that's something the team managed to do last season. While it took longer than I'm sure most of us wanted, they still did it and downplaying it serves no purpose.

It's ludicrous to suggest the Bombers got lucky last November and does an incredibly large disservice to the entire team, from management staff, to the coaches, to the players. Imagine walking up to a player or coach of that team and saying "Nice win and all but you guys got lucky."

It's totally baffling that we're here, nine months after the Bombers finally ended the longest active championship drought in the CFL, debating the act of going over the team's record with an overly fine toothcomb, trying to justify a seemingly irrational dislike for the head coach.

"What have you done lately?" That's one of the most important questions to ask of a team. And in this case, the Winnipeg Blue Bombers are the defending champions coming off a pretty dominant playoff run. Dissecting all the rest from months or years previous is just being needlessly nitpicky and it does nothing but undermine what they accomplished in November of last year.

No lies detected.

Luck always has something to do with success in the playoffs. Usually that revolves around team health.

In 2017 and 2018 we had bad luck with several key players injured going into the playoffs. In 2019 we were nearly totally healthy in the back half of the season. Players like Maston and Taylor came available.

We were able to trade for Collaros. That was a combination of need to with Nichols on the shelf Streveler hobbling and him being available from Toronto.

No disrespect intended to our coaches but our opponents were a little less fortunate with their injury / replacement situations.

That's part of the game but I'd be lying if I didn't see how that worked in our favor.
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« Reply #68 on: August 27, 2020, 08:04:21 PM »

Luck always has something to do with success in the playoffs. Usually that revolves around team health.

In 2017 and 2018 we had bad luck with several key players injured going into the playoffs. In 2019 we were nearly totally healthy in the back half of the season. Players like Maston and Taylor came available.

We were able to trade for Collaros. That was a combination of need to with Nichols on the shelf Streveler hobbling and him being available from Toronto.

No disrespect intended to our coaches but our opponents were a little less fortunate with their injury / replacement situations.

That's part of the game but I'd be lying if I didn't see how that worked in our favor.

Luck is not a tangible metric but you're not wrong. Fortuitous and fortunate events certainly help a playoff run. Team health/roster intactness certainly plays a major role, too.

That being said, does this not apply to every team just the same as this one? For once, though, it worked out for the Bombers and now they're champs.

However, it still doesn't negate the quality O'Shea has established for himself as a head coach. Wink
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« Reply #69 on: August 27, 2020, 08:20:55 PM »

Luck is not a tangible metric but you're not wrong. Fortuitous and fortunate events certainly help a playoff run. Team health/roster intactness certainly plays a major role, too.

That being said, does this not apply to every team just the same as this one? For once, though, it worked out for the Bombers and now they're champs.

However, it still doesn't negate the quality O'Shea has established for himself as a head coach. Wink

I think that's what I was saying. Including some changes we decided to make and were not forced to make by management and coaches. IE: Maston and Taylor were astute additions.

O'Shea has become a better coach over his tenure. Hindsight is great though. We could have changed coaches back in 2017 and been worse off or better off. No way to tell. Like players, it's who was available at any given moment in time.
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« Reply #70 on: August 27, 2020, 08:25:09 PM »

While the US battles civil unrest and injustices to people of colour, and the world battles covid, back here in hillbilly world, we re arguing whether Mike O'Shea is a good coach, and yet we make fun of rider fans?!? Seriously folks!!!

Give it a rest already , the answer is obvious.
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« Reply #71 on: August 28, 2020, 04:05:50 AM »

While the US battles civil unrest and injustices to people of colour, and the world battles covid, back here in hillbilly world, we re arguing whether mike o shea is a good coach, and yet we make fun of rider fans?!? Seriously folks!!!

Give it a rest already , the answer is obvious.

Hillbilly World. Where do you live.
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« Reply #72 on: August 28, 2020, 05:16:15 AM »

While the US battles civil unrest and injustices to people of colour, and the world battles covid, back here in hillbilly world, we re arguing whether mike o shea is a good coach, and yet we make fun of rider fans?!? Seriously folks!!!

Give it a rest already , the answer is obvious and those who continue to argue are either stupid, bored or both.

It never ceases to amaze me that people feel the need to purposefully come on a thread that they have no interest in, or that upsets them, and tell people to stop talking.  How many times do we have to go over this with everyone?  If you don't like the thread topic, don't read it!  Easy peasy and it saves you a ton of time to boot.  Holy smokes, if people want to talk about something, from the high brow all the way down to what color Strev's underpants were in the GC, let them.

And "don't talk about MOS, because racism" has got to be one of the silliest things I've ever read on this forum.  Don't promote cancel culture.

Luck always has something to do with success in the playoffs. Usually that revolves around team health.

Oh for sure, but the health-luck bug bit us bad in previous years, so did that mean BC/EDM/CGY didn't deserve their playoff wins over us?  I remember some key players getting injured at the worst possible times really hurting our playoff chances.  Like Leggett.

Then again, we did pretty good for a team that lost our superbly-performing star QB for the season.  That's no small hurdle to overcome.

And I would also posit that Strev played better hurt than healthy.  Maybe the pain and meds made him just plain crazy.  Come playoff time he was the only 1st-team player hurt.  Well, except for Couture.  But massive credit to our OL squad not skipping a beat with Speller.  Deep at NAT OL usually == deep in the playoffs.

Definitely, the successful insertion of Maston and Nick Taylor also paid huge dividends, the D came together at just the right time.

Yes.  Overshadowed in all our great O play and our great DL play were some amazing DB (and LB) knockdowns, knockouts and reception-denyings.  Often the commentary guys would miss it completely, or only recognize it right before commercial and barely say anything.

Things like Jones16 TD-saving knockout on HAM-Jones.  Sayles comeback-stopping knockout on CGY at the GL on 3rd & 1 from the 10.  Taylor's dancing-moves one-on-one batdowns on deep throws where he is on the WR like glue and turns well in time to avoid DPI.  (Provide more!)

We spend years watching CGY DBs doing that stuff on us all game long and then their O making every catch.  Finally we are that team that knocks down half the passes and our O makes the hard catches.  You have no idea how much pleasure our D brought me in 2019.  I probably concentrate more on the astounding DB/LB plays in the playoff run than I do our O.  (And I'm not minimizing our DL play, as it probably won the games for us, I'm just shining a much-deserved light on our CGY-caliber DB play.)
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« Reply #73 on: August 28, 2020, 01:04:40 PM »

We absolutely deserved our wins. The difference between winning is often making 2 or 3 big plays that become turning points. In the playoff run there were plays made by both the offense and the defense that made the difference.

Every team goes though 20 games before the playoffs. You come to the dance with the depth that got you there. Every team has injuries and is a different team than the day 1 roster.
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« Reply #74 on: August 28, 2020, 01:19:29 PM »

You do know that making the playoffs > not making the playoffs, right? Although of course you're going to say that "only playoff WINS count and nothing else matters" because it allows you to put more zeros in your posts.
You know that 2nd and 3rd both get you into the same game, right? You know 2nd is better than 3rd right? You know that 2nd means a home game? You know MOS has only managed a single home playoff game in his career?

I don't have an irrational hate for MOS. I have a rational desire to look at his entire career instead of just last years playoffs to decide how good he is. I understand there is both good and bad. I see no value in glossing over the bad or in trying to make the stats look better or worse. We've all made our points now. I'm happy to let it go. Cheers!
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« Reply #75 on: September 01, 2020, 01:32:49 AM »

O'Shea won the Grey Cup. To me, it doesn't matter how long or why, he had succeeded where others in this organization had failed for the last three or so decades. He's wearing the ring and could likely care less about what someone is writing about him on a message board. The joy that was brought to the city last year was just incredible.
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« Reply #76 on: September 02, 2020, 03:16:09 AM »

TBurgess pathetic attitude to MOS belongs on the other forum. Much more appropriate their.
Agree
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« Reply #77 on: September 02, 2020, 01:22:20 PM »

Pathetic for having a differing opinion? I don't think that pathetic means what you think it does.
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« Reply #78 on: September 02, 2020, 04:40:31 PM »

Remember.....everyone here is entitled to an opinion provided it does not contravene the Code of Conduct.

People have made their views known on this subject so let's not continue to pile on.  Thanks.
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« Reply #79 on: September 03, 2020, 12:45:40 AM »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Winnipeg_Blue_Bombers_head_coaches

Coach O'Shea is quietly piling up the wins.

If I'm reading this right:
- he is now second in Bomber coaching wins behind Bud Grant.
- he needs one more Grey Cup win  to match Mike Riley and Reg Threlfall and three more to tie Bud Grant.
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« Reply #80 on: September 03, 2020, 01:46:04 AM »

Ill admit the first few years i wazent impressed with with MOS, Walters or Miller.

But now i think im not so impressed with the talent of the team as much how the team came together. These guys put together a team of players that just had the will to go win.

You can have the best Coaches or a GM or whatever..... but sometimes you just cant beat that team that is just ready to win. Its in the fight.

So what im saying is.....  we might not have had the best talent in the league ... but when it counted ... i will say without any doubt MOS,Walters and Miller played a huge part in the way the team played to bring them a Cup.

Tburg can yap all he wants.

BUt when you build a team for years. Then loose your starting QB. Bring in a new guy and go wIn a Cup.

You have to respect the coaching.
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« Reply #81 on: September 03, 2020, 01:49:39 AM »

Ill admit the first few years i wazent impressed with with MOS, Walters or Miller.

But now i think im not so impressed with the talent of the team as much how the team came together. These guys put together a team of players that just had the will to go win.

You can have the best Coaches or a GM or whatever..... but sometimes you just cant beat that team that is just ready to win. Its in the fight.

So what im saying is.....  we might not have had the best talent in the league ... but when it counted ... i will say without any doubt MOS,Walters and Miller played a huge part in the way the team played to bring them a Cup.

Tburg can yap all he wants.

BUt when you build a team for years. Then loose your starting QB. Bring in a new guy and go wIn a Cup.

You have to respect the coaching.
well done Muddy well said
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« Reply #82 on: September 03, 2020, 03:32:26 AM »

Mike O'Shea was hired in December 2013.  The 2013 team was coached by Tim Burke and quarterbacked by Justin Golz, Max Hall and Jason Boltus. 

That team went 3 and 15 in 2013.  They lost 10 of their first 12 games and 9 of those losses would be considered blow outs by most people.

That is the team Mike O'Shea inherited.

His first two seasons were losing seasons but from 2015 to 2019 they were all winning record seasons culminating with the Grey Cup win in 2019.

In addition, when he joined the Bombers he was a rookie head coach.  While some may have wanted the team to progress faster, O'Shea took time to build a team of players he wanted and that he believed would succeed....that is players who were skilled and committed to the program in Winnipeg.  He drew in players that wanted to be here.

It may have taken longer than some liked, but it proved to be a strategy that resulted in success and winning the ultimate prize.  Only time will tell if his strategy is sustainable but, IMHO, he is proving himself to be one of the better head coaches Winnipeg has had in it's long football history.

To diminish his accomplishments would be unfair, arguably untrue and overly critical.  He has done well.
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« Reply #83 on: September 03, 2020, 06:39:27 PM »

I think that saying his initial couple seasons means anything now is ridiculous. He has vastly improved since then and his past record is completely irrelevant to today. The fact of the matter is that as of today he is easily one of the top coaches in the CFL, if not the top coach, and he has the Grey Cup ring to prove it.

It's like saying Anthony Calvillo was an average QB because he was a backup/fringe starter until he went to Montreal. Coaches improve, players improve, and football is a what have you done for me lately business.
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« Reply #84 on: September 03, 2020, 08:29:20 PM »

Ignoring parts of O'Shea's career is just juicing his stats. He owns the first two seasons the same as he owns the great playoff run last year. It's not like rookie HC's can't turn bad teams around, Khari Jones did it in 1 year.

MOS wasn't the only HC to lose his starting QB in 2019. Steinauer, a rookie HC, lost his starting QB and still coached his team to the best record in the CFL. Craig Dickenson, a rookie HC, lost his starting QB and coached his team to the 2nd best record in the league. Both coaches lost their starting QB's before MOS lost his and both went into the playoffs with inexperienced starters. MOS coached the Bombers to 4th overall, 3rd in the West, and didn't have to use an inexperienced QB in the playoffs. I've said it over and over, the trade that gave us a legit starting QB going into the playoffs was the difference maker between one and done again and a Grey Cup victory, yet some want to give MOS all the credit.

O'Shea is 2nd in wins because he's 2nd in games coached. 8 other Bomber coaches, from Grant forward, would have had more wins if they had  GM's who stuck by them as long as Walters has stuck by MOS. Most of our previous GM's would have fired MOS after his 2nd season in a row out of the playoffs. I don't know of any past GM's, Bombers or not, who would have given MOS 5 years to get a single playoff win.

MOS is a much better coach than when he started. Even so, his regular season records are pedestrian. One 2nd, 3 3rds in the West and 2 missed playoffs. Our first taste of playoff success came in 2018, his 5th season, and it was a single win. In 2019, we were the best team in the playoffs after coming 4th overall in the league. One playoff run, even if it's a Grey Cup win, doesn't equal a great coach.  I have him at 6th best of the Bomber coaches since the 50's. Pretty good among a bunch of bad coaches. I don't know where I'd rank MOS against all the CFL HC's since the 50's, but it wouldn't be near the top 10 and you need to at least be in that conversation to be considered among the great HC's.
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« Reply #85 on: September 04, 2020, 04:21:05 AM »

Ignoring parts of O'Shea's career is just juicing his stats. He owns the first two seasons the same as he owns the great playoff run last year. It's not like rookie HC's can't turn bad teams around, Khari Jones did it in 1 year.

MOS wasn't the only HC to lose his starting QB in 2019. Steinauer, a rookie HC, lost his starting QB and still coached his team to the best record in the CFL. Craig Dickenson, a rookie HC, lost his starting QB and coached his team to the 2nd best record in the league. Both coaches lost their starting QB's before MOS lost his and both went into the playoffs with inexperienced starters. MOS coached the Bombers to 4th overall, 3rd in the West, and didn't have to use an inexperienced QB in the playoffs. I've said it over and over, the trade that gave us a legit starting QB going into the playoffs was the difference maker between one and done again and a Grey Cup victory, yet some want to give MOS all the credit.

O'Shea is 2nd in wins because he's 2nd in games coached. 8 other Bomber coaches, from Grant forward, would have had more wins if they had  GM's who stuck by them as long as Walters has stuck by MOS. Most of our previous GM's would have fired MOS after his 2nd season in a row out of the playoffs. I don't know of any past GM's, Bombers or not, who would have given MOS 5 years to get a single playoff win.

MOS is a much better coach than when he started. Even so, his regular season records are pedestrian. One 2nd, 3 3rds in the West and 2 missed playoffs. Our first taste of playoff success came in 2018, his 5th season, and it was a single win. In 2019, we were the best team in the playoffs after coming 4th overall in the league. One playoff run, even if it's a Grey Cup win, doesn't equal a great coach.  I have him at 6th best of the Bomber coaches since the 50's. Pretty good among a bunch of bad coaches. I don't know where I'd rank MOS against all the CFL HC's since the 50's, but it wouldn't be near the top 10 and you need to at least be in that conversation to be considered among the great HC's.

You are entitled to your views and opinions.  But, very few people here have said M.O. should be categorized as a great head coach.  Most have complimented him for bringing raising the team from a very poor performance in 2013 when he started, to winning a Grey Cup in 2019.  You may not like the rate of progress but he did what, seemingly, the GM, President and others considered a good job over those years by bringing in players who were talented, winners and wanted to be in Winnipeg.  That is the thought that initiated this thread, most seem to agree and you seem to be one of few who want to challenge that.  O'Shea has been here for 6 seasons where football has actually been played.  And he took over a lack luster team and led it to a Grey Cup.  The label "great head coach" may or may not happen but he has done the job he was paid to do so far.
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« Reply #86 on: September 04, 2020, 09:37:58 AM »

MOS is a much better coach than when he started. Even so, his regular season records are pedestrian.

In my humble opinion, I think our 2019 season record didn't represent the caliber of team we had.  And I think SSK's season didn't represent the caliber of team they had.  I think WPG should have been +2 (maybe +3) on the year because we basically lost 2 games in nearly impossible ways by trying to play the odds / play safe against vastly inferior teams (@MTL, @TOR).  In a normal world, those games don't end like that.  Yes, Milt says a loss is a loss, but those games really should have been ours.  That would have put us tied with SSK, and if we had pulled out that one close loss to them, we might have been 1st in the W.  Even grabbing just 1 of those embarrassing losses would have given us 2nd in W and home WSF.

Yes, many won't agree with me, but that's how I feel.  That's why I knew we'd be strong into the playoffs, because we really were, in reality but not on paper, the #1 or #2 team in the league, not #4.  The playoff run proved that.  No team had a chance and our D held everyone to basically zero points.  Look at the WDF... we held the #1 in the W team to zero TDs.  Zero TDs.  When's the last time you saw a divisional final with zero TDs by the higher ranked team?  Never, probably.

TB, I'm fine with you opinion and your facts are overwhelmingly correct, no problem there; but like others point out, your spin is a bid odd for a WPG fan celebrating a cup win.  I wonder, though, what are your thoughts on Hall then?  Great DC, or was he just lucky?  (Coming from Hall's #1 fan.)  If you're hard on MOS, not sure where you'll go with Hall.  I don't remember if you were a Hall hater or lover in the old 2018 Hall threads (sorry)...
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« Reply #87 on: September 04, 2020, 01:34:03 PM »

I too complement MOS on having a great playoff run last year. I'm very happy with the Grey Cup win after all these years. I don't think I'm being hard on MOS. I think I'm being realistic about his tenure so far and I think that the facts support my opinion. I'm not the one who is spinning anything. Just following the facts.

Just for Tecno cuz he asked: I'm not a huge Hall fan, but he had a great year last year. The Bombers gave him 11 starting imports and a couple of DI's and he molded them into one of the best defences in the league. He confused opposition QB's and his bend, don't break, worked to a T in the playoffs. I'll be very interested to see how his D looks next year. Will it be as stout as last year or go back to bend and break? (FTR: I like an attacking defence better)
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« Reply #88 on: September 04, 2020, 01:49:14 PM »

I too complement MOS on having a great playoff run last year. I'm very happy with the Grey Cup win after all these years. I don't think I'm being hard on MOS. I think I'm being realistic about his tenure so far and I think that the facts support my opinion. I'm not the one who is spinning anything. Just following the facts.

Just for Tecno cuz he asked: I'm not a huge Hall fan, but he had a great year last year. The Bombers gave him 11 starting imports and a couple of DI's and he molded them into one of the best defences in the league. He confused opposition QB's and his bend, don't break, worked to a T in the playoffs. I'll be very interested to see how his D looks next year. Will it be as stout as last year or go back to bend and break? (FTR: I like an attacking defence better)

I agree on Hall with the caveat that I think his defensive system is tailor made for cold weather playoff football. His defences, imo, will always appear pedestrian in the heat of summer when players fatigue in the heat and passing games are executing at a high level...but I don't think there is a better cold weather system going. You need to be extremely efficient passing to beat his defence because he takes the run game out of the equation and that's hard to do in November in Canada.
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« Reply #89 on: September 08, 2020, 10:02:29 AM »

Just for Tecno cuz he asked: I'm not a huge Hall fan, but he had a great year last year. The Bombers gave him 11 starting imports and a couple of DI's and he molded them into one of the best defences in the league. He confused opposition QB's and his bend, don't break, worked to a T in the playoffs. I'll be very interested to see how his D looks next year. Will it be as stout as last year or go back to bend and break? (FTR: I like an attacking defence better)

Yes, I was thinking about the IMPs on D.  We basically had what could be an NFL D: almost all IMPs.  However, every team has the option of tweaking their ratio like that, if they hire the right NATs...  Let's not scoff at Kongbo or Fatboi though, they were both stout in the playoffs.  Maybe not huge stats, but watch the line play, they made their impact.

Hall sometimes confused me too, even when rewatching a play a few times!  Cheesy  Sometimes it's impossible to guess who will come and who will drop back.  Just as impossible is guessing how many are actually coming.  I can just imagine how much hell that is for QBs.

Attacking D?  What do you mean?  Our GC D wasn't "attacking" enough for you?  Or do you mean attacking the routes and getting takeaways?  Funny how our regular season takeaways, while good, weren't as good as our peak turnover years.  But I take out lessening reliance on the turnover as a sign of strength: not needing fancy pants plays to win games.  Or do you mean more blitzes?  Hmm, again you'd have to separate regular from post-season to analyze.  Let me know what you mean by attacking and I can better respond.

GCn19: maybe.  Our D had some great games in the heat too.  But you might be right as we really lit up in the last 4 (overall) games; all chilly games.  To me the only real blemishes on our D were the early games when we were still getting comfortable and still trying to slot in the best players, and the awful TOR & MTL losses which I think were purely a function of lax/prevent-D play calling (and really bad luck).

After watching the last 4 games a zillion and one times, I can honestly say that we haven't had such a great D in nearly 30 years.  It is a supreme thrill to sit and watch them make play after play, over and over.
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« Reply #90 on: September 08, 2020, 10:25:30 AM »

WPG    1964    1    14    1    .094    5th in West

BC    1975    5    5    0    .500    5th in West 
BC    1976    5    9    2    .375    4th in West 

TOR    2008    0    8    0    .000    3rd in East

How awful these coaches must have been!

They are respectively, Bud Grant, Cal Murphy and Don Matthews.
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« Reply #91 on: September 08, 2020, 12:39:28 PM »

Yes, I was thinking about the IMPs on D.  We basically had what could be an NFL D: almost all IMPs.  However, every team has the option of tweaking their ratio like that, if they hire the right NATs...  Let's not scoff at Kongbo or Fatboi though, they were both stout in the playoffs.  Maybe not huge stats, but watch the line play, they made their impact.

Hall sometimes confused me too, even when rewatching a play a few times!  Cheesy  Sometimes it's impossible to guess who will come and who will drop back.  Just as impossible is guessing how many are actually coming.  I can just imagine how much hell that is for QBs.

Attacking D?  What do you mean?  Our GC D wasn't "attacking" enough for you?  Or do you mean attacking the routes and getting takeaways?  Funny how our regular season takeaways, while good, weren't as good as our peak turnover years.  But I take out lessening reliance on the turnover as a sign of strength: not needing fancy pants plays to win games.  Or do you mean more blitzes?  Hmm, again you'd have to separate regular from post-season to analyze.  Let me know what you mean by attacking and I can better respond.

GCn19: maybe.  Our D had some great games in the heat too.  But you might be right as we really lit up in the last 4 (overall) games; all chilly games.  To me the only real blemishes on our D were the early games when we were still getting comfortable and still trying to slot in the best players, and the awful TOR & MTL losses which I think were purely a function of lax/prevent-D play calling (and really bad luck).

After watching the last 4 games a zillion and one times, I can honestly say that we haven't had such a great D in nearly 30 years.  It is a supreme thrill to sit and watch them make play after play, over and over.



Just because most of our players on D were Americans, doesn't make it an NFL D. This D turned the corner the day MOS decided JH was out and Alexander was in at Safety. Until then the D was up and down like a rollercoaster.

In 2001, 2007, and 2011, all years we went to the Grey Cup we had very good D's.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 02:20:22 PM by Pigskin » Logged

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GCn19
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« Reply #92 on: September 09, 2020, 11:09:33 AM »

Yes, I was thinking about the IMPs on D.  We basically had what could be an NFL D: almost all IMPs.  However, every team has the option of tweaking their ratio like that, if they hire the right NATs...  Let's not scoff at Kongbo or Fatboi though, they were both stout in the playoffs.  Maybe not huge stats, but watch the line play, they made their impact.

Hall sometimes confused me too, even when rewatching a play a few times!  Cheesy  Sometimes it's impossible to guess who will come and who will drop back.  Just as impossible is guessing how many are actually coming.  I can just imagine how much hell that is for QBs.

Attacking D?  What do you mean?  Our GC D wasn't "attacking" enough for you?  Or do you mean attacking the routes and getting takeaways?  Funny how our regular season takeaways, while good, weren't as good as our peak turnover years.  But I take out lessening reliance on the turnover as a sign of strength: not needing fancy pants plays to win games.  Or do you mean more blitzes?  Hmm, again you'd have to separate regular from post-season to analyze.  Let me know what you mean by attacking and I can better respond.

GCn19: maybe.  Our D had some great games in the heat too.  But you might be right as we really lit up in the last 4 (overall) games; all chilly games.  To me the only real blemishes on our D were the early games when we were still getting comfortable and still trying to slot in the best players, and the awful TOR & MTL losses which I think were purely a function of lax/prevent-D play calling (and really bad luck).

After watching the last 4 games a zillion and one times, I can honestly say that we haven't had such a great D in nearly 30 years.  It is a supreme thrill to sit and watch them make play after play, over and over.


I did not mean to imply that our D was useless in the summer, just that from personnel down to scheme the Bombers built a defence that would perform at its best in the cold weather games. Did that mean being prone to the explosion play during the July heat...yea...but full credit to our GM and coaches for seeing past that.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #93 on: September 09, 2020, 11:51:00 PM »


Just because most of our players on D were Americans, doesn't make it an NFL D. This D turned the corner the day MOS decided JH was out and Alexander was in at Safety. Until then the D was up and down like a rollercoaster.

In 2001, 2007, and 2011, all years we went to the Grey Cup we had very good D's.

FWIR, those D's were very good, but usually in 1 or 2 aspects.  I don't recall a D, except maybe 1990, that was monster in all positions.  In the past it was usually the DBs that would be the weak(er) point.

In 2019 we had one of the best DL ever, an exceptional LB corps to equal any of the past, and a CGY-at-their-peak level of DB talent.  We had it all.  The funny thing is we may not have had the best players in each position (except DE), but we certainly had the best team with superb communication and coordination, and an awesome scheme/DC.

Take 2011 for example: massively strong DL, decent LBs, decent DBs.

Again, this is just my opinion.
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #94 on: September 09, 2020, 11:59:16 PM »

FWIR, those D's were very good, but usually in 1 or 2 aspects.  I don't recall a D, except maybe 1990, that was monster in all positions.  In the past it was usually the DBs that would be the weak(er) point.

In 2019 we had one of the best DL ever, an exceptional LB corps to equal any of the past, and a CGY-at-their-peak level of DB talent.  We had it all.  The funny thing is we may not have had the best players in each position (except DE), but we certainly had the best team with superb communication and coordination, and an awesome scheme/DC.

Take 2011 for example: massively strong DL, decent LBs, decent DBs.

Again, this is just my opinion.


I would rate our 2011 secondary as ?massively strong? instead of ?decent? IMO.

LBs I think we?re Lobendahn, Marcellus Bowman and Clint Kent was our SAM (I think?) which is probably a little better than just decent.

I?m just rambling about the past here...
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« Reply #95 on: September 10, 2020, 01:27:15 AM »

That Swaggerville Defense of 2011 was dominant across the board and a primary reason for that team having the season it did. The loss of Lobendahn was significant, IMO.

That secondary, though? It was spectacular: Jovon Johnson (MODP*, AS) AKA the CEO of Swaggerville, Jonathan Hefney (AS), Ian Logan (AS), Alex Suber, Brandon Stewart. These five combined for 253 tackles, 23 INTs (4 for TDs), 5 fumbles, and 2 QB sacks. That's a pretty savage stat line, not to mention the All-Star nods.

* Johnson's MODP award was the first by a defensive back
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #96 on: September 10, 2020, 09:30:14 AM »

I stand corrected on 2011.  I forgot about most of those DBs.  I guess I was thinking 2007.  Anyhow, so the 2011 "weak link" on D was the LB corps, whilst still good, were overshadowed by the DL/DBs.

All those DBs bg84 mentions all sound to us now as memorable "big" names.  But some/most weren't that "big" at the time, were they?  Which gets me thinking about our 2019 D... how many will go on in the CFL to become "big" names.  And by "big" I mean well-known outside of our team (think Willie, Bighill).

I think Alexander, Maston, Sayles, Rose and even Jones#16 may go on to monster CFL careers (assuming the NFL guys come back to CFL).  Which sucks a bit because that means keeping them all on one team will become (expensively) impossible.  (Taylor was good too but might need to grow another year.)
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Tiger
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« Reply #97 on: September 25, 2020, 12:24:18 AM »

We won the Grey Cup.  

Hard to argue for success.

We are still Grey Cup champions this year because there are no games!

Enjoy it.

We are now in the middle of a huge cluster. Who knows what happens next.

At least enjoy the Grey Cup Champion status and it is fertile ground d for teasing rider fans.
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Tiger
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« Reply #98 on: September 25, 2020, 01:28:46 AM »

We won the Grey Cup.  

Hard to argue for success.

We are still Grey Cup champions this year because there are no games!

Enjoy it.

We are now in the middle of a huge cluster. Who knows what happens next.

At least enjoy the Grey Cup Champion status and it is fertile ground d for teasing rider fans.
Hear Hear Tiger
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #99 on: September 25, 2020, 01:30:49 AM »

That Swaggerville Defense of 2011 was dominant across the board and a primary reason for that team having the season it did. The loss of Lobendahn was significant, IMO.

That secondary, though? It was spectacular: Jovon Johnson (MODP*, AS) AKA the CEO of Swaggerville, Jonathan Hefney (AS), Ian Logan (AS), Alex Suber, Brandon Stewart. These five combined for 253 tackles, 23 INTs (4 for TDs), 5 fumbles, and 2 QB sacks. That's a pretty savage stat line, not to mention the All-Star nods.

* Johnson's MODP award was the first by a defensive back
nice job!
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Leroy Brown
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« Reply #100 on: October 13, 2020, 12:56:55 AM »

We won the Grey Cup.  

Hard to argue for success.

We are still Grey Cup champions this year because there are no games!

Enjoy it.

We are now in the middle of a huge cluster. Who knows what happens next.

At least enjoy the Grey Cup Champion status and it is fertile ground d for teasing rider fans.

Wade should spend about $10,000 per for big diamond encrusted chain medallions with the W logo for 2020, then in 2021 he can add the belt buckle.
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« Reply #101 on: October 16, 2020, 01:13:34 AM »

Mike O'Shea hasn't finished building his legacy yet. He will when he retires have secured the position as the Bombers' second winningest, second best and second most beloved coach of all-time after the legendary Bud Grant.

 Smiley

« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 03:04:23 PM by Foxhound » Logged

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Leroy Brown
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« Reply #102 on: October 17, 2020, 10:43:30 PM »

Mike O'Shea hasn't finished building his legacy yet. He will when he retires have secured the position as the Bombers' second winningest, best and beloved coach of all-time after the legendary Bud Grant. Smiley

It's not like he hasn't been given a good chance to get the job done.

Bombers have had many good coaches. MOS down the list when it comes to most beloved. Cal Murphy would be my pick.
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