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Author Topic: Blue Bombers add two to roster - February 28, 2020  (Read 6698 times)
blue_or_die
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« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2020, 07:09:15 PM »

Yes, safety is the easiest position to fill. That's not to say you won't suffer if you under service it (Hecht) or benefit if you over service it (Alexander). If Walters feels we have a sufficient wealth at DB and have the ratio set then we can afford to use our best DB to make a huge impact at such a position and truly live up to the name of said position. Last year we did because we had Kongbo, as well as Rose and Sayles. This year we have lost those guys.

I'm bullish on Jones and think he will be boundary CB. I'm thinking J. Johnson at BHB perhaps Alexander does in fact stay at safety, although I'd prefer to have Alexander at BHB and JJ at field half back. Taylor is kind of a wild card but could play the remaining HB or CB slots. Looking like it's possible to have a rookie at field corner which isn't the worst thing in the wake of losing top end talent to the NFL, provided we have 4 of the 5 DB positions as solid knowns (plus Maston at SAM, of course).
« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 07:12:09 PM by blue_or_die » Logged

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booch
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« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2020, 07:19:40 PM »

The best player in the secondary is never going to be the safety. It has nothing to do with what posters are specifically saying. Keeping in mind there are posters here that have actually played in the CFL.

It has to do more ( for my point ) with watching the CFL for over 60 years. I'd suggest that is also the view of the many long term CFL viewers etc.

It's why teams accept the safety as the least area of concern in the secondary and why marginal starters like Hecht start there backed up up D. Jones in 2019. Yes it's where they try to hide a Canadian in the ratio. You don't do that if it's where it will cause you the most harm.

Eliminate the ratio and I'd suggest every team would be starting an import given a choice.

I always have to take what Walters says with a grain of salt.

As I said IMO Alexander might be our best DB at the moment. That could change during TC. But if he turns out to be our best DB then safety is not where he should be playing.

Our secondary developed to be very good in the last 1/3 of the season. The Canadian rotation on the DL improvement allowed us to deploy Alexander to replace the weakest link at that point in time ( Hecht ).

It could be debated that earlier in the year Fenner at CB was the most harmful in the secondary. In 2018 it was K. Fogg at CB.



Yes safety is the easiest spot to fill, bar none, unless yhou run some exotic type defense where you use a free and strong safety and move another DB around to match man to man with a teams best guy much like we used to do with Bolden, then he should have good cover skills

But generally in a CFL defense you need a guy with quickness, ability to read a play and and flow to the ball...be it over the top help, or to collapse down on a run..95% of time thats his role..over the top help in double coverages, and run support

I also agree Alexander at safety is a nice luxury if you can do that, but is a waste of probably one of the better more experienced DB's on our roster.

Even though Waltyer's said what he said, I would hope Hallett or Exume both get every opportunity to show they can manage that position as a defense with a National safety and a young run plugging DT (ala last years find in Richardson) would serve us better than at moment a rotation of Jake and Griffiths.

Further to the safety thing, why do you think a lot of times in past, teams have had a converted receiever morph into a safety?...it's not a tough spot to play..you just need athleticism and a brain in your head
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2020, 07:29:12 PM »

If we find a solution to our Canadian starting / rotating on defense ( probably on the DL ) then we have the luxury of an import at safety.

I'm hoping that Griffith shows enough to be able to rotate on the DL with Thomas. However I suppose we could see other players rotating in such as Briggs at WIL.

Neither of those options gives me much confidence at the moment. Not much to go on with Griffiths and he may not even make the roster.

Obviously like many posters I'm hoping Hallett or Exume win the role at safety. That resolves may issues and creates more options on defensive rotation situations. I agree with Booch that would serve us better than a Canadian rotation at DT. At least until we see what Griffiths shows in TC.

Finding and adding another top rookie DB gives us other options if necessary.

Once we decide the ratio aspect we'll have a better understanding of what choices we have in the secondary.

Since several of the vets we have can play several positions it's not easy to predict what today's plan would look like. Add in ratio questions and rookie finds and it just makes something that will be interesting in TC as well as dynamic.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 09:09:40 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2020, 09:08:04 PM »

I also agree Alexander at safety is a nice luxury if you can do that, but is a waste of probably one of the better more experienced DB's on our roster.

I don't know... Having monster Alexander at FS in the GC yielded huge (critical?) dividends.  Just off the top of my head: INT on HAMs first pass set the tone of Tabby demoralization and gave us instant field position advantage.

Yes, everyone always says hide the lacklustre NAT at FS.  But it sure was amazing to see what Alexander could do back there...

If you've found the winning formula, why change it?  Get another decent NAT DL and keep rotating with Fatboi.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 08:13:58 AM by TecnoGenius » Logged

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booch
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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2020, 09:10:57 PM »

I don't know... Having monster Alexander at FS in the GC yielded huge (critical?) dividends.  Just off the top of my head: INT on HAMs first pass set the tone of Tabby demoralization and gave us instant field position advantage; and huge hit on Evans when he was running left on 2nd & long to stop their drive.  He also helped stuff Sutton and Addison runs in the middle a couple/few times.  Every single time he laid on hellacious hits.

Yes, everyone always says hide the lacklustre NAT at FS.  But it sure was amazing to see what Alexander could do back there...

If you've found the winning formula, why change it?  Get another decent NAT DL and keep rotating with Fatboi.


Yeah he had a strong game...no questioning that, but the int was basically being in the right spot on a deflected over throw, not due to a unbelievable cover play
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2020, 09:14:02 PM »

I don't know... Having monster Alexander at FS in the GC yielded huge (critical?) dividends.  Just off the top of my head: INT on HAMs first pass set the tone of Tabby demoralization and gave us instant field position advantage; and huge hit on Evans when he was running left on 2nd & long to stop their drive.  He also helped stuff Sutton and Addison runs in the middle a couple/few times.  Every single time he laid on hellacious hits.

Yes, everyone always says hide the lacklustre NAT at FS.  But it sure was amazing to see what Alexander could do back there...

If you've found the winning formula, why change it?  Get another decent NAT DL and keep rotating with Fatboi.


We've covered the WHY in detail. That includes the fact we may not have or find a decent NAT DL.

M. Jones has only started a few games and he may become great or may struggle as a full time starter.

Taylor has limited experience as well.

We no longer have Sayles or W. Rose who were part of the winning formula. That's the issue at the moment.

Maybe 1 or both return by TC ( unlikely ) but things will change as we approach TC.

Maybe we sign somebody like Jonathan Rose or equivalent to resolve 1 CB position.  Maybe M. Jones is the real deal or some new rookie will be found in TC.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 09:16:42 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2020, 09:39:47 PM »

Maybe we sign somebody like Jonathan Rose or equivalent to resolve 1 CB position.  Maybe M. Jones is the real deal or some new rookie will be found in TC.

After Jones#16's astoundingly good 4(?) starts, I actually have zero doubt he's the real deal.  It makes losing Rose/Sayles slightly less painful.

Besides, I think the Mafia has become a master at finding DB talent late in the season.  In fact, getting amazing DBs late in the season might be part of our strategy (cheaper than paying top talents all year).
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booch
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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2020, 09:46:27 PM »

After Jones#16's astoundingly good 4(?) starts, I actually have zero doubt he's the real deal.  It makes losing Rose/Sayles slightly less painful.

Besides, I think the Mafia has become a master at finding DB talent late in the season.  In fact, getting amazing DBs late in the season might be part of our strategy (cheaper than paying top talents all year).


Coaches were very high on Jones all year, and actually I was kinda shocked he never grabbed a spot right outta camp but we went with the vet in Fenner...plus he's an accomplished returner too, so he has nice value on a roster
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2020, 10:49:12 PM »

I was impressed with M. Jones play and have high hopes he'll be a stud in 2020. That said he's started 4 games and only been on the roster for 7? There will be more film on him and he might struggle a bit early in the 2020 campaign.

1st year DB's tend to get better in their 2nd season so I have no real reason to think he won't follow that pattern.

Losing Rose and Sayles is going to be an adjustment. So overall we'll see how things shape up in the secondary. We do have some very good talent and up and comers.

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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2020, 02:54:30 PM »

Coaches were very high on Jones all year, and actually I was kinda shocked he never grabbed a spot right outta camp but we went with the vet in Fenner...plus he's an accomplished returner too, so he has nice value on a roster

Must have been pre-season Jones fumbled a punt around the 5 yard line and turned over the ball, that was all she wrote, after that never saw much of him for a couple of months.
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GCn19
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2020, 03:23:12 PM »

I don't know... Having monster Alexander at FS in the GC yielded huge (critical?) dividends.  Just off the top of my head: INT on HAMs first pass set the tone of Tabby demoralization and gave us instant field position advantage.

Yes, everyone always says hide the lacklustre NAT at FS.  But it sure was amazing to see what Alexander could do back there...

If you've found the winning formula, why change it?  Get another decent NAT DL and keep rotating with Fatboi.


Alexander is a huge asset at S, no doubt about it, but S is probably the easiest position to recruit or promote someone else at. I only say that because Alexander is very good in the secondary where recruitment is tougher. Personally, I don't have much faith in the Thomas/Griffith tandem on the DL and would much prefer we utilize a NAT at S. I am among the many that would love to see Exume or someone else steal the S job. However, I do really like BA there so if that's whats best then let's do it.
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booch
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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2020, 03:29:21 PM »

Must have been pre-season Jones fumbled a punt around the 5 yard line and turned over the ball, that was all she wrote, after that never saw much of him for a couple of months.
Yup...but fact they kept him around all season...says volumes...earned his way back
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2020, 04:45:53 PM »

Yup...but fact they kept him around all season...says volumes...earned his way back

Hard to say but that's an interesting point. I took that a little differently for a few reasons.

1. They may have wanted to get Grant on the roster as our punt returner.
2. I don't remember the exact sequence but MOS / Hall probably wanted to get Humes and then Rios on the roster. Humes had been around for most of 2018 and Rios might have initially ranked higher in TC.
3. Some times a few more weeks on the PR is beneficial to rookies and their learning curve.

Either way Jones came on big in the play offs and could be a dominant player this season.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2020, 05:00:52 PM »

Hard to say but that's an interesting point. I took that a little differently for a few reasons.

1. They may have wanted to get Grant on the roster as our punt returner.
2. I don't remember the exact sequence but MOS / Hall probably wanted to get Humes and then Rios on the roster. Humes had been around for most of 2018 and Rios might have initially ranked higher in TC.
3. Some times a few more weeks on the PR is beneficial to rookies and their learning curve.

Either way Jones came on big in the play offs and could be a dominant player this season.

It looks like they have given up on Rios, I think that's a mistake as he has the potential and athletic tools to become a solid DB once he gets past the rookie mistake phase.  I expect him to re-emerge elsewhere this season.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2020, 05:24:34 PM »

It looks like they have given up on Rios, I think that's a mistake as he has the potential and athletic tools to become a solid DB once he gets past the rookie mistake phase.  I expect him to re-emerge elsewhere this season.

It's hard to say. There may have more to his release than on off field issues. I'm not trying to say there is something " bad " about him.

However he may have had more difficulty in understanding the playbook or taking instructions from coaches than others for example.

Maybe some technique / footwork habits in college were harder for him to break.

Aside from speed or raw athletic talent there are so many other factors that determine whether a player sticks or not.

That's not intended to paint a negative picture of him or any other player that is released. It's just the business reality is that there is always a " next " that may be perceived as greater upside.

He made some plays. He made some mistakes. Happens to every DB. Ultimately he may not have been willing to accept a PR role and teams can't always retain players on 1 game IR.

He might show up elsewhere during TC but there are dozens of other choices teams have. Overall it is a bit surprising that we have no DB's from the PR returning. Add to that the loss of Rose, Sayles, Fenner, D. Jones, Hecht and Gaitor from the SAM and DB group we're going to see some new faces.

That's not necessarily a bad thing but different than we've seen in recent seasons.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 05:26:58 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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