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Author Topic: 2020 Free Agents  (Read 69754 times)
blue_or_die
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« Reply #360 on: February 06, 2020, 04:52:08 PM »

No.  You start with 7 starting NATs.  But if 1 of those 7 gets injured, you start subbing in FAKENATs.  You could end the game with 0 realNATs on the field!  I'd love to see Ambrosie's head pop off then!  If you always still had 7 NATs on the field, there'd be no room for abuse and no one would be complaining at all and Ambrosie wouldn't have had to threaten the HC's like he did.

You had a non-cavalier response as usual Tecno, lol, but I will just respond to this one snippet because it's the tell-all.

Are you sure about this? It doesn't make sense and would ruin the ratio and be abused....I guess that's everyone's concern, but I just don't understand if that's absolutely the case.

It would make far more sense to have to start seven "real Nats" and three 3/4 yr vets (or 3 more real Nats), and then if one gets injured, replace them with another real Nat, another 3/4 yr vet, or an American non-vet but then displace another American non-vet for another real Nat or 3/4 yr vet.

The rules should (but maybe don't?) ensure there are both min seven Nats playing and min 3 3/4 yr vets (or other real Nats) playing. It would also be ridiculous to allow only three of these 3/4 yr vets to be the designated vets in a game, because teams who employ more longer tenured vets should be rewarded with roster flexibility, just as teams with a wealth of Nats should be rewarded with flexibility.

The core concept of this rule change, I thought, was to add protection and incentive for American players to be coveted, rewarded, and have staying power, just like we do with Nats, to slow down the instant slashing of loyal players for cheap young talent to an extent. They shouldn't come at the expense of one another.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 04:54:12 PM by blue_or_die » Logged

107th Grey Cup champs and WE ARE LIT
Nic16
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« Reply #361 on: February 06, 2020, 08:11:17 PM »

Or possibly they have a line on TJ Jones and are going that route as the free-agent wr signee...so having 2 national back-ups behind 3 starters would be the smart thing

I forgot about him, but definitely another option...and Winnipeg born!
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #362 on: February 07, 2020, 07:57:22 AM »

Are you sure about this? It doesn't make sense and would ruin the ratio and be abused....I guess that's everyone's concern, but I just don't understand if that's absolutely the case.

Here's a source to ponder:
https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/cfl/winnipeg-bluebombers/cfl-nfl-window-situation-still-not-resolved-but-there-are-ongoing-talks-between-two-leagues

It's pretty black and white in that article:
"If a Canadian player gets hurt during a game, teams will be allowed to sub in a nationalized American in his place."
-- Wyman

Of course, Wyman may be wrong, but I've seen snippets from KW and the CFL that basically say the same thing.  Note, a "nationalized American" (my FAKENAT) doesn't have to be "designated" (my DEFANAT), it can be any of the Americans who fit the new 3/4-year qualification.

Further:
"There is already much speculation that teams will try to manipulate the new rules, faking injuries in order to get more Americans on the field, but Walters said that was addressed on Wednesday."
- Wyman

"That will be on the league to monitor and I assure you, for the integrity of the game, it was stressed by (Commissioner) Randy (Ambrosie) that that won't be accepted. That sort of behaviour and tactics will not be tolerated."
- Walters

I don't 100% trust Wyman to get it right, but I do trust KW 100% to get it right.  There's a better KW article out there that this Wyman article is based on, but I can't see to find the right google-fu at the moment.

If there wasn't a way to abuse it to replace NATs with IMPs, no one, especially KW and Ambrosie, would be mentioning any of these things!

It would make far more sense to have to start seven "real Nats" and three 3/4 yr vets (or 3 more real Nats), and then if one gets injured, replace them with another real Nat, another 3/4 yr vet[...]

That is precisely the case.  You have gotten it 100% correct right there, as long as your "them" means both "NAT and DEFENAT".

or an American non-vet but then displace another American non-vet for another real Nat or 3/4 yr vet.

I'm pretty sure this is also the case.  Just as before (with 7 NATs), you can shuffle the NAT/DEFENATs around if you want to, as long as you always have 7NAT + 3DEFENAT.  The "new bit" is what happens on injury... you can put a FAKENAT in for one of the 7 NATs.

I'd say forget about the subbing and shuffling, it only complicates the scenario.  The shuffling should/will continue as it always has, and you can always go over the 7 NAT requirement and field 8 or 12 realNATs if you really want to.  Just like before, the big thing will be do you have that magic minimum 10 on field at all times, plus the new injury rules.

The rules should (but maybe don't?) ensure there are both min seven Nats playing and min 3 3/4 yr vets (or other real Nats) playing. It would also be ridiculous to allow only three of these 3/4 yr vets to be the designated vets in a game, because teams who employ more longer tenured vets should be rewarded with roster flexibility, just as teams with a wealth of Nats should be rewarded with flexibility.

You're not reading what I said about 2 (TWO!!) new classes: all the 3/4-year vets are magically in the new FAKENAT class.  They don't have to be designated anything.  They just become FAKENATs by simply being 3/4-year vets.  You pick a subset of of those FAKENATs, 3 players you designate each game to be the DEFANAT.  Those are the "starting 3" or "always-on-the-field 3".  Those 3 spots must then always be NAT or DEFANAT if none are injured.  Upon injury to any of those 10, you can sub in any FAKENAT.  But no young-IMPs or DIs.

Yes, you can shuffle the positions around, sub in, whatever, but you must maintain the 7+3 just as you used to have to maintain the 7.

The core concept of this rule change, I thought, was to add protection and incentive for American players to be coveted, rewarded, and have staying power, just like we do with Nats, to slow down the instant slashing of loyal players for cheap young talent to an extent. They shouldn't come at the expense of one another.

Wyman says something similar in that article.  And it does, because every team MUST keep around 3 3/4-year vets.  Before a team could have gone all-ELC IMP if they wanted to.  Of course, it's all very silly because every team already has/had 3 3/4-vets on the field all the time anyhow.

But now you have to account for injuries and the fact you can get more IMPs on the field if a NAT gets injured.  If you signed more good, but not great, IMP vets at oft-injured positions and dressed them as your DIs, then as your NATs get injured you can put in more FAKENATs, and thus have less than 7 real Canadians on the field.  Ok, so perhaps you'll never fake-injure yourself to 0 NATs (only 4 DIs), but you could whittle it down to 3!

Interestingly, this makes keeping someone like Chris Matthews around more attractive instead of dropping him for young Lucky and Grant (like we did).  Matthews could have come in the few times Demski and Woli got injured in-game.  It also might make a vet IMP RB more attractive for us (a NAT RB team), as you could sub in a Sutton or Madu if AH33 gets injured.  Of course, that only helps you that game... the next week you'd have to drag the injured AH33 out on field for 1 play to get re-injured so you could put the IMP RB back in...

Not to sound "cavalier" again, I really am just trying to help because it blew my brains until I grokked it, but you basically have it figured out except for the subbing convolution which is neither here nor there, and the fact there's really 2 new classes being created here.

There is one tiny point I'm not positive on but am pretty sure because it's the only thing that makes sense: that a realNAT can sub in for a DEFANAT (injured or not).  Based on historical CFL ratios, you always can put in an extra NAT anywhere, so I don't see why they'd make it so only FAKENATs could sub in for DEFANAT...  But I haven't seen it written in stone yet.  God help us if Ambrosie has made it so only FAKENATs can fill in for DEFANATs!  That would put FAKENATs at a big premium and you'd definitely dress more vets as DIs.
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Never go full Rider!
TBURGESS
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« Reply #363 on: February 07, 2020, 03:29:18 PM »

In an effort to understand, I read Tecs's source. It has a bit of what he's saying, but not all of it.

There are now Nationalized Americans (3/4 Years, NA's from now on) who can come on for anyone who gets injured (NI or IMP).
Injuries can happen in game or in warm-up after the roster is set, so you could replace an injured NI with an NA even before the game starts.

Then I read: https://3downnation.com/2020/01/08/cflpa-sends-memo-to-players-detailing-changes-to-cba/

Quote
Teams will be eligible to name as National Starters a maximum of three (3) Players per game who have become National Players by virtue of the Amended definition of National, i.e. Americans who have played with the same C.F.L. team for three (3) consecutive years or who have played four (4) years in the C.F.L. These three (3) players only apply to the starter ratio, and not to the roster allocation.

In the event of a game injury to any of the Club?s ten (10) National Starters, the injured player(s) can be replaced by either a National or any other American on the roster who qualifies under the Amended definition of National above.

You can replace an NA with another NA or with an NI, so you don't need to carry backup NA's for each NA starter. For example: You could designate both OT's as NA's and back them up with another NA. That player would also be able to back up the NAT OL. You could simply carry a backup NI OL who would serve the same purpose.

One thing that no one has mentioned yet... Backup NA's are also DI's. They can replace any import.
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Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.
3rdand1.5
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« Reply #364 on: February 07, 2020, 08:04:12 PM »

So...hypothetically speaking if we played Sask. again in the West final (based on 2019 roster);
Hecht could get injured with a "tweaked ankle" in warm-up and Alexander/Fenner could fill in
Thomas could go down with a "badly bruised rib" in the 1st series and Nevis could go in
We could start Neufeld at RT and in the 3rd series he has a "bad back spasm" and Hardrick (who was dressed but not a designated starter) goes in in his place

These fake nat's all meet criteria and my understanding of the rules is they qualify, so this would be allowed? Essentaily putting the best roster we can on the field within the rules (Chris Jones style bending) and it would be allowed. Possibly after the game and after our expected victory with that roster Ambrosie "could" threaten the "wrath of god" but by then we are in the cup and it's a moot point....Did I get that correct?

If so IT WILL be abused!
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Ridermania
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« Reply #365 on: February 07, 2020, 09:53:27 PM »

The Saskatchewan Roughriders have signed receiver Shaq Evans to a one-year contract extension through the 2020 season.

Evans recorded 72 catches for a team-leading 1,334 yards and five touchdowns last year. His first 1,000-yard season while displaying the potential to be a long-term No. 1 target in the CFL.

He was a pending free agent but prior to leaving Regina after the season was over, Evans met face-to-face with Riders' general manager Jeremy O'Day.

The @shaq_evans1 deal is in the 175-200K range, depending on bonuses achieved.
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ModAdmin
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Blue Bombers and Fans


« Reply #366 on: February 07, 2020, 11:45:06 PM »

CFL Retweeted
Toronto Argonauts
@TorontoArgos
45m
Also released:

DL Linden Gaydosh
WR Jimmy Ralph
K/P Zack Medeiros
QB James Franklin
QB Dakota Prukop
DB Trumaine Washington
RB Chris Rainey
DB Kevin Fogg
DB Jonathan Mincy
 K/P Donald De La Haye
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"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." - John Wooden
kkc60
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« Reply #367 on: February 08, 2020, 12:03:53 AM »

CFL Retweeted
Toronto Argonauts
@TorontoArgos
45m
Also released:

DL Linden Gaydosh
WR Jimmy Ralph
K/P Zack Medeiros
QB James Franklin
QB Dakota Prukop
DB Trumaine Washington
RB Chris Rainey
DB Kevin Fogg
DB Jonathan Mincy
 K/P Donald De La Haye
No
Maybe
No
No
Maybe
No
No
Yes
No
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The Zipp
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Who gives a flying Buck...


« Reply #368 on: February 08, 2020, 12:10:27 AM »

CFL Retweeted
Toronto Argonauts
@TorontoArgos
45m
Also released:

DL Linden Gaydosh
WR Jimmy Ralph
K/P Zack Medeiros
QB James Franklin
QB Dakota Prukop
DB Trumaine Washington
RB Chris Rainey
DB Kevin Fogg
DB Jonathan Mincy
 K/P Donald De La Haye

And Tyler Holmes and Sean McEwen
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blue girl
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« Reply #369 on: February 08, 2020, 12:44:54 AM »

CFL Retweeted
Toronto Argonauts
@TorontoArgos
45m
Also released:

DL Linden Gaydosh
WR Jimmy Ralph
K/P Zack Medeiros
QB James Franklin
QB Dakota Prukop
DB Trumaine Washington
RB Chris Rainey
DB Kevin Fogg
DB Jonathan Mincy
 K/P Donald De La Haye
I'd go after Mincy. The rest no.
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GOLDMEMBER
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R.I.P. BLUE BONGER


« Reply #370 on: February 08, 2020, 01:14:48 AM »

I'd go after Mincy. The rest no.
same
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #371 on: February 08, 2020, 07:21:05 AM »

In an effort to understand, I read Tecs's source. It has a bit of what he's saying, but not all of it.

There are now Nationalized Americans (3/4 Years, NA's from now on) who can come on for anyone who gets injured (NI or IMP).
Injuries can happen in game or in warm-up after the roster is set, so you could replace an injured NI with an NA even before the game starts.

Then I read: https://3downnation.com/2020/01/08/cflpa-sends-memo-to-players-detailing-changes-to-cba/

You can replace an NA with another NA or with an NI, so you don't need to carry backup NA's for each NA starter. For example: You could designate both OT's as NA's and back them up with another NA. That player would also be able to back up the NAT OL. You could simply carry a backup NI OL who would serve the same purpose.

One thing that no one has mentioned yet... Backup NA's are also DI's. They can replace any import.

You are 100% correct on all points.  The "NAs" (FAKENATs) who you dress as DIs can essentially sub in for anyone.  That's the same as realNATs.  Yes, injury can be pregame.

Yes, you don't need backups for every (or even any) DEFANATs ("DNAs" by your terms).  However, since IMPs are almost always better than NATs, and especially if you have an eye towards cheating, you will want DEFANATs (and realNATs) to always be replaced by a vet IMP (NA/FAKENAT) when possible.  I think aging vet IMPs will be kept around as DIs longer under these new rules... Guys like Wild, Arcenaux, Matthews, just became a lot more useful.

I mentioned DI's quite a bit, just use the "highlight all" search function with "DI" in your browser and look at my post.  It did become more clear to me as I went on that your FAKENATs should be DIs for optimal IMP-stacking.  If your DIs are ELC IMPs you lose all of this flexibility.  So if it's me, even without a mind towards cheating, I'm "starting" all my ELC/young IMPs and DI'ing all of my vet FAKENATs (excluding the 3 DEFANATs that must start, of course).

So...hypothetically speaking if we played Sask. again in the West final (based on 2019 roster);
Hecht could get injured with a "tweaked ankle" in warm-up and Alexander/Fenner could fill in
Thomas could go down with a "badly bruised rib" in the 1st series and Nevis could go in
We could start Neufeld at RT and in the 3rd series he has a "bad back spasm" and Hardrick (who was dressed but not a designated starter) goes in in his place


These fake nat's all meet criteria and my understanding of the rules is they qualify, so this would be allowed? Essentaily putting the best roster we can on the field within the rules (Chris Jones style bending) and it would be allowed. Possibly after the game and after our expected victory with that roster Ambrosie "could" threaten the "wrath of god" but by then we are in the cup and it's a moot point....Did I get that correct?

If so IT WILL be abused!

Yes yes and yes!  You nailed it.  Now you see the major problem and why Ambrosie has to resort to threats.  He has set up what might result in an untenable and laughable situation.

Like your example, can you imagine the 2020 GC and we roster Hecht at FS who then does a convincing "oblique injury" in warm-up and we get to play Alexander (who we DI'd) at FS and have only 6 Canadians on the field all game?!?!  Can you imagine?  Or SSK is in the GC (God forbid) and Hurl is dressed at MLB and gets hurt and Solly comes in and plays the whole game?  Imagine if a team does this for 2 players in that GC!?

Maybe Ambrosie can punish and chastise during the regular season... but what do you do after those shenanigans in the GC??  Is he going to take their GC away??  The pressure to exploit this is going to be insane, even if just for that one game.

Paging Chris Jones, where is Chris Jones...
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Never go full Rider!
Ridermania
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« Reply #372 on: February 08, 2020, 04:27:18 PM »

The Calgary Stampeders have signed national offensive lineman and Calgary native Sean McEwen to a two-year contract.

The 26-year-old was one of 12 players the Argos released on Friday, ahead of free agency opening on Tuesday, Feb. 11 at noon ET.
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Ridermania
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« Reply #373 on: February 08, 2020, 04:29:08 PM »

Farhan Lalji

@FarhanLaljiTSN
Hearing #BCLions are making a strong push to sign DE Micah Johnson & that there is mutual interest.
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Blue72
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« Reply #374 on: February 09, 2020, 02:55:28 PM »

Does anyone know if the bombers brought in anyone to talk to or were in contact anyone last week?
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