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Author Topic: Matt Nichols injured and out for the rest of the season  (Read 74489 times)
TBURGESS
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« Reply #630 on: September 28, 2019, 02:12:47 PM »

Nichols wouldn't have won any of the games that Streveler lost.

We got the big lead in Montreal because we ran a Streveler based offence for the first time. We went back to the Nichols based offence in the second half and frittered the win away.

Nichols wouldn't have gotten out of the pocket anywhere near as often as Streveler did against Hamilton. Likely more sacks, more throw aways, and more short passes to Harris for no first downs.

It doesn't take 8 years to learn to throw the deep ball (Nichols didn't throw a good deep ball until this year). Ricky Ray did it in year 1. We don't have a deep ball offence anyway. Even when we had Nichols, we only threw deep once or twice a game. You gotta do it more often to get good at it.

The whole team got beat last night, not just the QB.
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The Zipp
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« Reply #631 on: September 28, 2019, 02:17:42 PM »

Nichols wouldn't have won any of the games that Streveler lost.

We got the big lead in Montreal because we ran a Streveler based offence for the first time. We went back to the Nichols based offence in the second half and frittered the win away.

Nichols wouldn't have gotten out of the pocket anywhere near as often as Streveler did against Hamilton. Likely more sacks, more throw aways, and more short passes to Harris for no first downs.

It doesn't take 8 years to learn to throw the deep ball (Nichols didn't throw a good deep ball until this year). Ricky Ray did it in year 1. We don't have a deep ball offence anyway. Even when we had Nichols, we only threw deep once or twice a game. You gotta do it more often to get good at it.

The whole team got beat last night, not just the QB.


Having been at the game yesterday I do disagree a bit...there were open receivers and Strev panicked and missed them...Adams and Demski were wide open a few times. Nichols is just better at seeing the field and reading defences - he just is cause he has more experience.  One or two connections on those and it could be a different game with respect to momentum. 

But yes the team got their butts kicked by a better coached, more talented squad.  Hamilton is very, very good
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #632 on: September 28, 2019, 02:25:30 PM »

Having been at the game yesterday I do disagree a bit...there were open receivers and Strev panicked and missed them...Adams and Demski were wide open a few times. Nichols is just better at seeing the field and reading defences - he just is cause he has more experience.  One or two connections on those and it could be a different game with respect to momentum. 

But yes the team got their butts kicked by a better coached, more talented squad.  Hamilton is very, very good
I can't see the all 24 from my TV, so I'll take your word for it that there are open receivers that Streveler didn't see. Just cuz they're open doesn't mean that they are the #1 or #2 read. Experience or not, with Hamilton's pressure last night, I doubt any QB gets to their #3 read.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #633 on: September 28, 2019, 02:32:52 PM »

You can't use speculation to prop up absolute statements.
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lenny
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« Reply #634 on: September 28, 2019, 02:46:08 PM »

Having been at the game yesterday I do disagree a bit...there were open receivers and Strev panicked and missed them...Adams and Demski were wide open a few times. Nichols is just better at seeing the field and reading defences - he just is cause he has more experience.  One or two connections on those and it could be a different game with respect to momentum. 

But yes the team got their butts kicked by a better coached, more talented squad.  Hamilton is very, very good

I guess you have to look at how Matt did the last time we played the Ti-Cats? The 3 INTs and 15 points on the board with a passing efficiency of 57.44 for Matt. Strev had a passing efficiency of 81.85 in this game. To your point about the Ti-Cats. Yeah they're good but they lost to Montreal, Sask. and Calgary. They barely beat BC twice (35-34 and 13-10) and they barely and almost lost to Edmonton last week(30-27) with a stinker back up. I think this illustrates the problem is more with the Bombers than it is lauding a team which has it's own achilles heel. Their D pass defence isn't much better than the Bombers which is crappy 6th and T-Cats 5th as before the last game. The same D which Matt himself couldn't penetrate let alone Strev. Pass protection? Strev was sacked 5 times yesterday and their guy only once i.e., pressure D. Totally absent. That rookie QB had all day to pick apart the secondary as bad as it already is.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 02:55:25 PM by lenny » Logged
blue girl
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« Reply #635 on: September 28, 2019, 08:02:22 PM »

Bob Irving said on the post game show that when they asked O'Shea about bringing in another QB on the pregame show he emphatically said that they wouldn't. I was also at the game and noticed receivers open downfield but either Streveler couldn't see them or he's afraid to throw the ball deep.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #636 on: September 29, 2019, 03:40:38 AM »

Bob Irving said on the post game show that when they asked O'Shea about bringing in another QB on the pregame show he emphatically said that they wouldn't. I was also at the game and noticed receivers open downfield but either Streveler couldn't see them or he's afraid to throw the ball deep.

or, option 3, the primary target was open as well and he delivered the ball to the primary target as the play was called for him...

I show completions of 21, 24, 23, 19, 18, and 17 yards, and 8 more throws of 10+ yards, defended (knocked down) passes of 24 and 33 yards, and another completion of 24 yards, as well as 2 more shorter passes, nullified by a holding penalty... given the protection he was getting I think those numbers aren't that bad...

however, there were still 9 targets to Harris, 6 completions for a total of 34 yds, 24 yards were YAC, which translates to screen passes or at/near the line of scrimmage...
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blue girl
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« Reply #637 on: September 29, 2019, 04:13:42 AM »

or, option 3, the primary target was open as well and he delivered the ball to the primary target as the play was called for him...

I show completions of 21, 24, 23, 19, 18, and 17 yards, and 8 more throws of 10+ yards, defended (knocked down) passes of 24 and 33 yards, and another completion of 24 yards, as well as 2 more shorter passes, nullified by a holding penalty... given the protection he was getting I think those numbers aren't that bad...

however, there were still 9 targets to Harris, 6 completions for a total of 34 yds, 24 yards were YAC, which translates to screen passes or at/near the line of scrimmage...
But I wasn't the only one to see it though. A couple of times he either held on to the ball and got a couple of yards or threw a short pass and people around me were shouting that there was a receiver open downfield. I get that it's different up in the stands than it is on tv. That's why I wonder if he just doesn't see the receiver downfield.
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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #638 on: September 29, 2019, 04:17:05 AM »

Nichols wouldn't have won any of the games that Streveler lost.

We got the big lead in Montreal because we ran a Streveler based offence for the first time. We went back to the Nichols based offence in the second half and frittered the win away.

Nichols wouldn't have gotten out of the pocket anywhere near as often as Streveler did against Hamilton. Likely more sacks, more throw aways, and more short passes to Harris for no first downs.

It doesn't take 8 years to learn to throw the deep ball (Nichols didn't throw a good deep ball until this year). Ricky Ray did it in year 1. We don't have a deep ball offence anyway. Even when we had Nichols, we only threw deep once or twice a game. You gotta do it more often to get good at it.

The whole team got beat last night, not just the QB.


disagree with most, your anti Nichol's bias is pretty evident here

But I wasn't the only one to see it though. A couple of times he either held on to the ball and got a couple of yards or threw a short pass and people around me were shouting that there was a receiver open downfield. I get that it's different up in the stands than it is on tv. That's why I wonder if he just doesn't see the receiver downfield.

he was struggling with reads and quick decisions agree, he needs more time or just doesn't process the game fast enough or both
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #639 on: September 29, 2019, 05:58:30 AM »

But I wasn't the only one to see it though. A couple of times he either held on to the ball and got a couple of yards or threw a short pass and people around me were shouting that there was a receiver open downfield. I get that it's different up in the stands than it is on tv. That's why I wonder if he just doesn't see the receiver downfield.

it's hard to capture it all whether you're in the stands or watching on TV but for sure those at the game can see so much more than those of us at home... I didn't think he looked comfortable for the majority of the game... I think it was in part due to the pressure Hamilton was getting and due to the a different strategy, or whatever you want to call it, on how he was being used...

it looked to be a focused effort to keep him in the pocket... no roll outs... limited running... I don't know if that was Streveler, or, if it was something that came from the coaches... but he didn't look like his usual self, at least not to me... maybe it was just the vibe created by learning that Nichols is actually done for the year???

needless to say we at home only get a small glimpse of what all is actually happening on the field... I would love to have access to game film that gave you a complete overview of the entire play/field for each play... but even if that were available, without knowing what play was called or what the expectation from that play is, it would still be impossible to know if Streveler is missing these guys are if he is actually adhering to the designed progression and throwing to right receiver or not...

I think play calling by Lapo has a lot to do with both Streveler's and Nichols' success, or lack there of at times... and for that matter, our receivers as well... it seems to be a bit of a recurring theme as far as overall results regardless of the players inserted... at least I think so...
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #640 on: September 29, 2019, 06:01:29 AM »

or, option 3, the primary target was open as well and he delivered the ball to the primary target as the play was called for him...

I show completions of 21, 24, 23, 19, 18, and 17 yards, and 8 more throws of 10+ yards

All those yards you list are mid-range, which he does seem to be getting very good at.  We're talking deep attempts to keep the DBs honest.  Like 35+ yards.  Like the ones Matt was throwing every game...

Either Lapo has Strev leashed and says "no deep balls" even if the decoys receivers are wide open, or Strev isn't progressing through his reads.  There were times Strev had enough time hang in and make some deep passes, and guys were open, but he is either barred from throwing them, or he doesn't see them, or he's scared.  I don't think he's scared.

But I wasn't the only one to see it though. A couple of times he either held on to the ball and got a couple of yards or threw a short pass and people around me were shouting that there was a receiver open downfield. I get that it's different up in the stands than it is on tv. That's why I wonder if he just doesn't see the receiver downfield.

I spotted numerous instances on the TSN broadcast where you can clearly see deep receivers open.  Many times HAM DBs just stopped covering the deep and wide guys.  Come to think of it, he didn't throw wide much either, especially field side.  Most of his plays are kept in a tight box in the flat.  That really allows D's to cheat up on us, and it hinders our run game.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #641 on: September 29, 2019, 06:07:40 AM »

yeah but were aren't a deep throwing team regardless, even on a good day we aren't going to see but 1 or 2 of those plays being called... plus, a lot of that hinges on the quality of the protection the O line is providing... I didn't feel like we got very good line play in this game... plus, our O line guys really looked gassed for the majority of the game, which generally results in you seeing more holding calls like we did...

like I said in another thread, outside of the first series by both the offense and the defense the whole team's performance left a bad taste in my mouth...
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