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Author Topic: Other Team Cuts and Transactions.  (Read 170142 times)
DM83
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« Reply #180 on: June 24, 2019, 10:56:46 AM »

I think JSK benefitted by. Having Bighill on  the field...and now he starts the season hurt. 
Matthews? What's with him?  Two good practices, and then in the tub?
Fenner in the cormer?  Huh!?m he got beat by ten yards on that one play?

Two concerns that are no big deal, but are concerns.
Should be a beautiful. Day for a game on Thursday.  Two teams that played good football
Go Blue!
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #181 on: June 24, 2019, 11:56:47 AM »

Aards' sentiment is right.

No, it isn't.

This organization drafted and developed Chungh. The ROI after four seasons is pretty much zero since he opted to sign with another team. Experienced NAT talent and depth on the O-line is invaluable in this league. Losing Chungh for exactly nothing is a significant loss no matter how you slice it. Having Gray in the fold is extremely fortunate but that doesn't change the fact.

It's been one game against a basically trash BC Lions team, anyway. Let's see how the real competition measures up to this team's reworked O-line before concluding anything. It's way, way too early to make any predictions or speculation.

Your comparison to Harris is also not reasonable. O-linemen rarely "light it up" compared to a tailback; it's apples and oranges.
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kkc60
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« Reply #182 on: June 24, 2019, 12:25:35 PM »

Aards' sentiment is right.  I look at it more like this: did the player leave WPG and instantly light it up in the new city?  That would be a "bad loss".  So far none of our departed-FAs have lit it up anywhere.  Sure, that could change, but so far letting our FAs go seems like a good call, and certainly not something we should panic over anymore.

The opposite would be the AH33 BC scenario... BC let him go in FA, and Harris instantly starts lighting it up all year in WPG.  Now that would be a "bad FA loss", and that should cause much gnashing of teeth for BC.

As for Gray/Chungh, keep in mind almost everyone here thought Gray would be benched until labor day in order to be eased into the position.  But injuries dictated Gray was thrown into the fire.  And he's certainly proved able to cope.  Is Gray > Chungh?  Probably not.  But is he in the ballpark?  Certainly.  Is he half the price, you bet!  Winning all-round.

And the flipside of the FA losses, is what did we gain in FA?  If we lost zero "light it up" players, and we gained even one, we are sitting pretty.  I think we'll have a couple/few FAs prove to be "light it up" players in short order.  As an aside, JSK has the best chance of becoming a great success post-WPG, and I could see his loss stinging a bit down the road.


You see, the issue here though is if we approached Matthew's like Aards did our guys who signed elsewhere, Matthew's isn't a light it up guy. He hasn't played the one game theres been this season.

Also, keep in mind of the players we lost, all but 3 were backups. Aards mentioned Wild and LaFrance.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #183 on: June 24, 2019, 02:17:25 PM »

No, it isn't.

This organization drafted and developed Chungh. The ROI after four seasons is pretty much zero since he opted to sign with another team. Experienced NAT talent and depth on the O-line is invaluable in this league. Losing Chungh for exactly nothing is a significant loss no matter how you slice it. Having Gray in the fold is extremely fortunate but that doesn't change the fact.

It's been one game against a basically trash BC Lions team, anyway. Let's see how the real competition measures up to this team's reworked O-line before concluding anything. It's way, way too early to make any predictions or speculation.

Your comparison to Harris is also not reasonable. O-linemen rarely "light it up" compared to a tailback; it's apples and oranges.

Chungh came out of CIS and played 4 years without being eased into anything.  We got full value from that pick, including Walters getting him to sign one extension.  That pick gets 100%.  I love the fact that Chungh got mega buck from BC to play at home, and wish him well there.  He will find soon enough that home is one thing, but a solid team is quite another... 

Having spent a pick and invested time in Gray, a guy with NFL pedigree that Chungh did not, and being able to get him onto the team mid season to get a feel for things means he was better able to slot right in now.  He will do fine, or better.  If he has lapses it will be from returning to the CFL game, making it second nature through reptiition after spending time in the 4 down league.   It certainly won't be because of his size or talent.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #184 on: June 24, 2019, 03:02:52 PM »

No, it isn't.

This organization drafted and developed Chungh. The ROI after four seasons is pretty much zero since he opted to sign with another team. Experienced NAT talent and depth on the O-line is invaluable in this league. Losing Chungh for exactly nothing is a significant loss no matter how you slice it. Having Gray in the fold is extremely fortunate but that doesn't change the fact.

It's been one game against a basically trash BC Lions team, anyway. Let's see how the real competition measures up to this team's reworked O-line before concluding anything. It's way, way too early to make any predictions or speculation.

Your comparison to Harris is also not reasonable. O-linemen rarely "light it up" compared to a tailback; it's apples and oranges.

Ditto JSK, I find it disappointing they let him walk away and had to go back to starting all over again with Wilson over something like $20k extra when he publicly stated he wanted to stay in Wpg. alongside Biggie.  JSK was the perfect example of a player developing from scratch and within 2 years becoming a major contributor which is ideal for player development and continuity, I only wish they could have gotten at least 4 more years of excellent service from him.  His current injury status is is a freak thing that could happen to any player, it's a blip that means nothing.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #185 on: June 24, 2019, 03:12:12 PM »

Chungh came out of CIS and played 4 years without being eased into anything.  We got full value from that pick, including Walters getting him to sign one extension.  That pick gets 100%.  I love the fact that Chungh got mega buck from BC to play at home, and wish him well there.  He will find soon enough that home is one thing, but a solid team is quite another... 

Having spent a pick and invested time in Gray, a guy with NFL pedigree that Chungh did not, and being able to get him onto the team mid season to get a feel for things means he was better able to slot right in now.  He will do fine, or better.  If he has lapses it will be from returning to the CFL game, making it second nature through reptiition after spending time in the 4 down league.   It certainly won't be because of his size or talent.

It's certainly fortuitous for the team Gray didn't stick down south and decided to play in the CFL and his potential is undoubtedly high. However, that has nothing at all to do with losing Chungh via free agency. I mean, good on him for getting paid handsomely to return home and play there. That's irrelevant, though. His "value" to this team has ended, so I don't know what you're trying to say. A loss is a loss and he qualifies as such no matter how you feel compelled to spin it.
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rubanski
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« Reply #186 on: June 24, 2019, 03:14:40 PM »

I'm with Ardsy here. We got tremendous value out of the Chungh draft pick. Started immediately, and one all star season. We were probably paying him less than he was worth.

JSK would also have been making less than he was worth last year. Sure, it sucks to have to develop Wilson now, but you can't pay everyone market value. So? We're spending big bucks at MLB and counting on Biggie's tremendous talent and leadership to make it happen in the LB core.
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rubanski
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« Reply #187 on: June 24, 2019, 03:18:33 PM »

It's certainly fortuitous for the team Gray didn't stick down south and decided to play in the CFL and his potential is undoubtedly high. However, that has nothing at all to do with losing Chungh via free agency. I mean, good on him for getting paid handsomely to return home and play there. That's irrelevant, though. His "value" to this team has ended, so I don't know what you're trying to say. A loss is a loss and he qualifies as such no matter how you feel compelled to spin it.

Sort of. There's limited SMS dollars to spend. (This is hypothetical, so have some patience) If cutting Chungh means we have money for Chris Matthews, there's big value in the dollars saved.

This team had a couple turnkey, ready to roll OL and has struggled mightily to unearth impact receivers.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #188 on: June 24, 2019, 03:22:50 PM »

Wilson was here last year and is proving he is game ready. To me one year on the PR is plenty of time to learn the Canadian game, the system, and position.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #189 on: June 24, 2019, 03:24:42 PM »

Sort of. There's limited SMS dollars to spend. (This is hypothetical, so have some patience) If cutting Chungh means we have money for Chris Matthews, there's big value in the dollars saved.

This team had a couple turnkey, ready to roll OL and has struggled mightily to unearth impact receivers.

I couldn't agree more. The organization has done very well drafting NAT talent, particularly on the O-line. On the other hand, its inability to source high end receiver talent has been detrimental.

Obviously, the team couldn't have been able to retain Chungh at his current rate of pay and add an impact receiving talent like Matthews. The SMS means hard decisions have to be made and there are many moving parts in play. What I'm saying is this, though: losing a player you've drafted and developed for nothing is a loss. Fortunately, the right moves were made to hopefully mitigate that loss and continue that development mantra on the O-line, as well as address a need at a different position (WR in this case).
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#forthew
#gotthew

No drought about it.
Still can't fix stupid. Can't quarantine it, either.
the paw
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« Reply #190 on: June 24, 2019, 03:34:52 PM »

It's certainly fortuitous for the team Gray didn't stick down south and decided to play in the CFL and his potential is undoubtedly high. However, that has nothing at all to do with losing Chungh via free agency. I mean, good on him for getting paid handsomely to return home and play there. That's irrelevant, though. His "value" to this team has ended, so I don't know what you're trying to say. A loss is a loss and he qualifies as such no matter how you feel compelled to spin it.

You are absolutely correct when you say that a loss is a loss, and losing Chung is ungood.  That loss may be mitigated if there is an adequate replacement. It is way too early to say that Gray has filled that hole successfully.

But I would disagree with your earlier post that implied the ROI for Chung was inadequate.  That is a comment to the efficacy of the draft pick, and implies an expectation that we should be able to retain all our top performers.  I don't find that realistic.  All you are ever guaranteed out of a draft pick is his first three years of service, and in this case we got four.  Not only that, but we got 4 years of a starter, he didn't take two years to get up to speed.  So our ROI has been excellent IMHO, and our failure to retain him just gets classified as unfortunate, but a reality of SMS football.  
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Pigskin
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« Reply #191 on: June 24, 2019, 04:43:46 PM »

The other thing is loosing Chungh, and the Goose in the same year probably had a lot to do with who picked first in the draft.
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kkc60
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« Reply #192 on: June 24, 2019, 05:01:40 PM »

I'm with Ardsy here. We got tremendous value out of the Chungh draft pick. Started immediately, and one all star season. We were probably paying him less than he was worth.

JSK would also have been making less than he was worth last year. Sure, it sucks to have to develop Wilson now, but you can't pay everyone market value. So? We're spending big bucks at MLB and counting on Biggie's tremendous talent and leadership to make it happen in the LB core.
Chungh doesn't bug me only because, again, linemen are seldom worth 250k especially interior linemen.

As for JSK, if it was really a difference of 20k I mean, come on. You pay that extra 20k. It's actually kinda funny, Wilson is 2 years older than JSK.
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kkc60
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« Reply #193 on: June 24, 2019, 05:03:24 PM »

The other thing is loosing Chungh, and the Goose in the same year probably had a lot to do with who picked first in the draft.
Huh? We always had picks 4 and 5.
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booch
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« Reply #194 on: June 24, 2019, 05:59:25 PM »

Yeah the pricetag for Chungh makes no sense in a cap world...if he was a lockdown Left Tackle..well then yeah pay it

Wilson tho, he is more athletic than JSK...AND WAYYY faster as we seen in running down Burnham, also the Bomber Brass most likely knew all about JSK recovery and that he wouldn't be ready for start of season, so since had in house replacement in Wilson whom they were high on before JSK, probably didnt see value of putting more money into a guy that wouldn't be ready, as he probably wouldnt have been 6 gamed, hence no money savings
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