DEs Stop Gut Runs

[TecnoGenius]

This season I've noticed that a lot of up-the-gut runs are getting stuffed by DEs crashing down from the edge behind the LoS.  I'm not sure if it's a particularly new idea, but I don't recall it being as prevalent.  Our scheme falls victim to it too, hampering Brady's success.

It occurs on an A-gap or B-gap run play.  One or both DEs are usually allowed to go straight at the QB (allowing them to pass rush because there's no pass).  The OT will often just jam the DE, or is coming around to run block / road grade.

The idea is the free DE will choose pass rush, and thus be out of the play.  Or they are wide enough that they can't crash on the RB fast enough.  Play action and/or RPO can help trick the DEs.

The main problem is that RBs these days often like to wait for blocks to set up (the oft-heard "RB has patience" thing).  This gives the DE time to get to the RB before he hits the hole.  And even if the RB gets past the LoS, the DE can often get to them before they get momentum and stop them from behind.

Most every team does this.  Strangely, we don't really do this.  Willy cannot/will not do this or it'll ruin his no-injury streak.  But even our other DEs don't do it, because I don't think we scheme for it.

The advantage to the scheme is you don't need to stuff every hole (like we do).  And you can't get washed and double-teamed by hoggies.  It's just one guy on one guy.  And it doesn't let the big powerful backs get momentum, because you're catching them mostly waiting stationary.

The disadvantage is if you guess wrong that's one less hole stuffed.  Or the RB can just hit a hole immediately and the DE is then out of the play in a useless position.  But these days the "patient RB" is more common than the instant hole-hitter (IMHO).

Anyhow, just something I noticed league-wide.  And I notice we get beaten by it a lot.  And I've noticed our D doesn't really do this at all, at least not on purpose as a main scheme.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

What you seem to be taking about is what you'd call a pursuit tackle or backside tackle.

Defensive ends and blitzing linebackers have been doing this since the start of modern football.

[TecnoGenius]

What you seem to be taking about is what you'd call a pursuit tackle or backside tackle.

Defensive ends and blitzing linebackers have been doing this since the start of modern football.

Ya, thanks for the nomenclature!  But I don't recall it working so well in the CFL as it has been lately.  So many of the Brady stuffs are by DEs getting him from the side/behind.

10 years ago we didn't have as much of the "patient RB" thing.  I don't recall Cornish being particularly patient.  He just hit whatever was there instantly and kept those little feet tap dancing and no one could stop him.  Or Sheets.

I think the patient RB thing started around AH33 and Messam.  But I could be misremembering.

Often times now there's a schemed slow-hole-hit where the interior OL will keep the RB directly behind them, but untackled through the wall, and he counts to 2 or something and then hits the C gap... and all of the DL and LBs have already crashed the box and he's wide open.  But if a DE got penetration or left free (often on the non-target side), he can ruin that plan super quick.

The crashing DE pursuit tackle is useless if the RB is already through the hole.  I swear there's some correlation between slower hole setups prevalent these days and RBs getting "pursuit tackled".

[BLUEBOMBER]

Teams are adjusting.. BB needs to adjust how they use Brady as well.

[TecnoGenius]

We need to find a way to stop Oullette from doing what he did much of the LDC: faking a gut run, hiding behind the interior, then bouncing it outside once the DEs have been sealed into the box.

We had zero answer for it and he got big yards on every single one (as did the rookie).  Our DBs and even LBers had a hard time once he was in space with speed.  We need to stop him in the box.

So the pursuit tackle this thread was about is exactly what we need.  Because if you catch Oullette when he's just standing there behind the C hiding for 2 seconds then he's easy to bring down (and for a loss!).

Has SSK found a "WPG D cheat code" by noticing how our DEs never rush straight up towards the QB, but instead do so much gap cancelling, sitting and waiting in contain, and waiting for a batdown try?

I hope our DC(s) are working on this problem.  Lane blocking and contain are good, but if your DE gets pinned every single time, and no one else near the line is the edge contain, then SSK will continue with this play and it's an easy TD every time.  I don't know about you, but I want to make opponents "earn" the TD with a pass, not get an "easy" TD with zero risk just handing it off.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

He's not "faking" a middle run.

On an inside zone or power run the running back's first read is the designed gap (A-gap, B-gap, whatever). If the hole isn't there because the defense has filled it, the back will press the line of scrimmage for a half second to hold the linebackers and keep the blocking scheme intact.

If nothing opens up, the back can bounce the run to the outside, essentially abandoning the original gap and aiming for the edge.

Running backs have three options when thar happens and the hole isn't there:

Bang, hit the play-side gap anyway.
Bend, cut back against the grain if the backside opens.
Bounce, take it outside if the edge is available.

What we didn't do a great job of at times is last week is with our backside containment. Vaughters blew a couple of them but he wasn't the only one. We clean that up tomorrow and some of that ground success goes away. On the TD for example, AJ chose to bend. He's not really a big threat to bounce but he's got good vision and the containment still needs to be there.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

He's not "faking" a middle run.

On an inside zone or power run the running back's first read is the designed gap (A-gap, B-gap, whatever). If the hole isn't there because the defense has filled it, the back will press the line of scrimmage for a half second to hold the linebackers and keep the blocking scheme intact.

If nothing opens up, the back can bounce the run to the outside, essentially abandoning the original gap and aiming for the edge.

Running backs have three options when thar happens and the hole isn't there:

Bang, hit the play-side gap anyway.
Bend, cut back against the grain if the backside opens.
Bounce, take it outside if the edge is available.

What we didn't do a great job of at times is last week is with our backside containment. Vaughters blew a couple of them but he wasn't the only one. We clean that up tomorrow and some of that ground success goes away. On the TD for example, AJ chose to bend. He's not really a big threat to bounce but he's got good vision and the containment still needs to be there.

Oullette has turned his career around, if it wasn't for Andrew Harris he'd be long gone IMO.

[The Zipp]

He's not "faking" a middle run.

On an inside zone or power run the running back's first read is the designed gap (A-gap, B-gap, whatever). If the hole isn't there because the defense has filled it, the back will press the line of scrimmage for a half second to hold the linebackers and keep the blocking scheme intact.

If nothing opens up, the back can bounce the run to the outside, essentially abandoning the original gap and aiming for the edge.

Running backs have three options when thar happens and the hole isn't there:

Bang, hit the play-side gap anyway.
Bend, cut back against the grain if the backside opens.
Bounce, take it outside if the edge is available.

What we didn't do a great job of at times is last week is with our backside containment. Vaughters blew a couple of them but he wasn't the only one. We clean that up tomorrow and some of that ground success goes away. On the TD for example, AJ chose to bend. He's not really a big threat to bounce but he's got good vision and the containment still needs to be there.

we missed Kramdi on those runs - his return should help

[TecnoGenius]

He's not "faking" a middle run.

Thanks for the details, that's handy info.

However, what if you're an OC and you KNOW a team is going to play gap-cancel + lane-block (because you have the best short pass game in the league)?  What if you KNOW the D rarely blitzes, especially from the edge.

Then all you have to do to get big rush yards is get the DE to commit to the box so the OT (or extra OL/TE/FB) can seal him in.

This is what it looked like to me.  A specific design to counter exactly what it is our D tries to do against Trevor.  And a plus for that theory is that Oullette doesn't seem to be even trying to find a gap hole.  He doesn't look like Brady does when hitting the OL to find the hole!

Another plus is that I guarantee that SSK can open any hole they want against our DTs, any time they want.  But then they will only have a normal gut run and probably get stopped by our very good LB run stop.

The counter to it would be our DEs need to ignore gap cancel and make sure they remain outside the widest OL.  Then the gap the DE would have taken needs to be filled by a LBer (because otherwise the RB can just take the now open B/C gap).

Or we need edge run/pass blitzing by a DB or LB so we can remain outside.  There's probably many other things that would stop this, too.  Like if we could get a DE in the backfield to pursuit tackle -- but I don't see how our DEs could do that, since they never do.

If we allow those 2 RBs to do this outside stuff against us again all day, I'll be quite miffed.