Report: Walters, Goveia and McManus sign extentions

[TecnoGenius]

Yah I don't see any cost savings, due to the cap management will be paid the same as they were last season and the OC whoever they are will have to accept around the same amount Buck was paid.  Question is, how much of the pie did O'Shea swallow last season?  Is he now making more than his boss?

There has to be a cost savings.  Did you listen to all the interviews and chatter by MOS and KW?  Read between the lines.  The main sticking point on all of this was $$.  They all wanted more, and CFL didn't increase the coach SMS.  So how did they finally convince all 3 (plus MOS last year) to stay when they all wanted more $$?  They gave them more $$.  Where did the more $$ come from?  Had to shed it elsewhere (Buck).

The key is was Buck still under contract into 2024?  I think so?  So here's what had to happen to make all of this work... Buck to SSK must be a done deal and he gave his notice, then The Mafia has their OC lined up -- someone cheap or in-house -- so then WM knows he can bump up KW/Ted/Danny (mostly KW) and so makes the final deal.  (Note: just me guessing!)

The interesting part is: did Buck want or not want to take a HC job?  In other words, was he "nudged" out in order to free up the $$ to keep KW?  If Buck was still under contract into 2024, and he wanted to stay OC... do we likely lose KW??  Interesting things to ponder, and we may never know.

Proof of my theory will be if Buck is announced HC of SSK and a low level guy (read: cheap$$) becomes WPG OC.  Then come 2026 it all blows up because everyone will want more $$.  But who cares about 2026.

[theaardvark]

There has to be a cost savings.  Did you listen to all the interviews and chatter by MOS and KW?  Read between the lines.  The main sticking point on all of this was $$.  They all wanted more, and CFL didn't increase the coach SMS.  So how did they finally convince all 3 (plus MOS last year) to stay when they all wanted more $$?  They gave them more $$.  Where did the more $$ come from?  Had to shed it elsewhere (Buck).

The key is was Buck still under contract into 2024?  I think so?  So here's what had to happen to make all of this work... Buck to SSK must be a done deal and he gave his notice, then The Mafia has their OC lined up -- someone cheap or in-house -- so then WM knows he can bump up KW/Ted/Danny (mostly KW) and so makes the final deal.  (Note: just me guessing!)

The interesting part is: did Buck want or not want to take a HC job?  In other words, was he "nudged" out in order to free up the $$ to keep KW?  If Buck was still under contract into 2024, and he wanted to stay OC... do we likely lose KW??  Interesting things to ponder, and we may never know.

Proof of my theory will be if Buck is announced HC of SSK and a low level guy (read: cheap$$) becomes WPG OC.  Then come 2026 it all blows up because everyone will want more $$.  But who cares about 2026.

You forgot the "All of this is purely my speculation" part...

If there wasn't an $SMS increase, and there aren't any GM openings in the league, why would Walters and company expect a raise?

[TecnoGenius]

You forgot the "All of this is purely my speculation" part...

If there wasn't an $SMS increase, and there aren't any GM openings in the league, why would Walters and company expect a raise?

Because MOS said so.  His end-of-season wrap-up presser made it pretty clear.  KW's last presser a few weeks back also made him look prickly at the constraints of the SMS.  I think everyone was getting ornery at the lack of pay raises in this massive inflationary environment.  I don't think I've ever seen KW so tetchy.

I have no idea what KW though "plan B" was.  It could have even been a "more $$ or I retire", or "more $$ or I'll walk and wait a year when many teams will be canning their GMs".  Or maybe he slots in somewhere as an advisor for a season.  Who knows.  All I know is there is no way KW didn't get a pay increase in this deal.  And since we were spending to the coach cap$$, the money had to come at someone's expense.

All speculation, but give me another possible explanation?  Tell me where the $$ came from... or tell me with a straight face mucho prickly KW who MOS says "deserves a pay raise" didn't get more money.

[Jesse]

Because MOS said so.  His end-of-season wrap-up presser made it pretty clear.  KW's last presser a few weeks back also made him look prickly at the constraints of the SMS.  I think everyone was getting ornery at the lack of pay raises in this massive inflationary environment.  I don't think I've ever seen KW so tetchy.

I have no idea what KW though "plan B" was.  It could have even been a "more $$ or I retire", or "more $$ or I'll walk and wait a year when many teams will be canning their GMs".  Or maybe he slots in somewhere as an advisor for a season.  Who knows.  All I know is there is no way KW didn't get a pay increase in this deal.  And since we were spending to the coach cap$$, the money had to come at someone's expense.

All speculation, but give me another possible explanation?  Tell me where the $$ came from... or tell me with a straight face mucho prickly KW who MOS says "deserves a pay raise" didn't get more money.

I don't even know what you're theory is, you're just talking around what happened.

All three re-signed. And not only was there no additional money, there was less money, as MOS received a raise on his deal. So the three just came to some kind of reasonable split over the pie that was allotted to them.

The difference between what Buck was making and what a new coach is going to cost doesn't equal raises for three GMs. All that happened was negotiation between two parties: one side who has performed their jobs well and would like to be paid accordingly and the other side, hamstrung by cap restraints but strengthened knowing there were no available job opening across the league for them to leave to.

[TecnoGenius]

All three re-signed. And not only was there no additional money, there was less money, as MOS received a raise on his deal. So the three just came to some kind of reasonable split over the pie that was allotted to them.

The difference between what Buck was making and what a new coach is going to cost doesn't equal raises for three GMs. All that happened was negotiation between two parties: one side who has performed their jobs well and would like to be paid accordingly and the other side, hamstrung by cap restraints but strengthened knowing there were no available job opening across the league for them to leave to.

So you're saying KW possibly took a pay cut?  Hogwash.  There's no way either of the 3 took a cut.  None.  KW would have walked before signing at a loss.

What did Buck make in his 3rd year as OC?  I have no idea what good OC's make.  $300k?  If we give a young upstart from within a promotion we can probably get him to OC in year 1 for $125k just to get his foot in the door.  (A short contract or a laddered one might be proof of this.)

Danny probably was happy with the status quo, or a COLA raise.  Ted gets $50k bump from the Buck savings, and KW gets the rest (at least $100k raise).  I bet $80-$120k raise was more than enough to keep KW.  You can adjust the apportionment as you see fit, but you get the general idea.

If we sign a superstar OC like Lapo @$300k in a few days/weeks, then that's proof I'm dead wrong.

I think this is all proof that the coach cap$ is working as intended... it forces the hot teams to shed superstar talent because eventually the status quo demands more than the sms$ allows.  Something had to give, and this time it was Buck.  It allows bad teams to share in the wealth of talent rather than it being hoarded by the "rich" teams (i.e. WPG).

The other effect is it forces teams to take chances on upstarts and nobodies, and to give the "young'ns" a shot they likely wouldn't have in a non-SMS world.

It may suck for us, but it may also be better for the CFL.  That's the hope, anyway.  And we can still get lucky that, whatever upstart becomes OC, he is wildly successful out of the gate.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

So you're saying KW possibly took a pay cut?  Hogwash.  There's no way either of the 3 took a cut.  None.  KW would have walked before signing at a loss.

What did Buck make in his 3rd year as OC?  I have no idea what good OC's make.  $300k?  If we give a young upstart from within a promotion we can probably get him to OC in year 1 for $125k just to get his foot in the door.  (A short contract or a laddered one might be proof of this.)

Danny probably was happy with the status quo, or a COLA raise.  Ted gets $50k bump from the Buck savings, and KW gets the rest (at least $100k raise).  I bet $80-$120k raise was more than enough to keep KW.  You can adjust the apportionment as you see fit, but you get the general idea.

If we sign a superstar OC like Lapo @$300k in a few days/weeks, then that's proof I'm dead wrong.

I think this is all proof that the coach cap$ is working as intended... it forces the hot teams to shed superstar talent because eventually the status quo demands more than the sms$ allows.  Something had to give, and this time it was Buck.  It allows bad teams to share in the wealth of talent rather than it being hoarded by the "rich" teams (i.e. WPG).

The other effect is it forces teams to take chances on upstarts and nobodies, and to give the "young'ns" a shot they likely wouldn't have in a non-SMS world.

It may suck for us, but it may also be better for the CFL.  That's the hope, anyway.  And we can still get lucky that, whatever upstart becomes OC, he is wildly successful out of the gate.

Not necessarily a paycut, but likely no increase for any of the 3.  The entire management group was paid within the operations cap this past year without exceeding it, so far nothing has changed, so theoretically all concerned will earn the same amount in 2024-26, unless the cap is altered.

I think your estimate of $300k for an O.C. may be much higher than their actual pay, that's more likely to be in the low ball park of what a CFL HC receives, all speculation of course, as we have no data on coaches salaries.  The football operations cap is set at $2 million which includes salaries for General managers, coaches, scouts, equipment people and video personnel, so test the math.  I believe Wade Miller is exempt.

[Big Daddy]

If Wade Miller is exempt, why can't we find some stupid loophole making KW his Vice President and Danny Mac KW's secretary?!

[TecnoGenius]

I think your estimate of $300k for an O.C. may be much higher than their actual pay, that's more likely to be in the low ball park of what a CFL HC receives

I thought we sometimes did get reports and/or whisper numbers for HC/OC/DC's across the league?  Strange, but while I can recall numbers for HC's, I can't recall hearing about what OC/DCs were making.

It's got to be $200k for a seasoned/good OC/DC.  Maybe the league-best can make $300k?  OCs probably make more than DCs.  Maybe you can get a rookie OC within the ranks to do OC for $100k-$125k until they prove themselves?

I have no idea, maybe someone here knows better based on past reports for other teams?  It would be handy to have some ballpark idea of what all these positions are paid.

[GOLDMEMBER]

Anyone know if LaPo's family is still based in Wpg. or did he move them to Ottawa?

Lapo moved to Ottawa last I heard. He sold real estate here.