Bonus money applied to SMS

[TecnoGenius]

The salary management system is to manage salaries, to give teams a good idea on what they will have to spend on salaries.  Adding an undetermined amount of money to the SMS is the antithesis of what the SMS is.

If you want to think of bonus money being added to the 6GIR cap space being refunded to be re-spent on replacements is "adding an undetermined amount of money to the SMS" then by definition you must also believe that refunding just the 6GIR excluding bonus must also be "adding an undetermined amount of money to the SMS".  Because it is!  The bonuses are no more or less "undetermined" than the players' base salary!

It's not a straw man, it's simply pointing out that every argument you have offered against B in BC's thesis also directly applies against the existing 6GIR SMS relief framework!  You haven't offered anything unique to the bonus money situation other than, as B in BC noted, that "it's always been done this way".

Do you think that teams will even be able to find good to great players to replace their injured players if they have extra more money to pay them? Are there any $500K QB's out there just waiting for a CFL team to call in the off season for instance? I don't think so.

Now who's doing straw man.  Besides Kelly, who wouldn't even qualify anyhow because he's not on IR, no one is talking about QBs.  Our direct concrete situation right now, and that on other teams, is the bonus money paid to star Rs and DLs and DBs.  Sure, QBs would/should qualify under any 6GIR/bonus changes, but they aren't the focus in the here and now.

So QBs aside, yes, there are a ton of vet Rs, DLs and DBs "out there just waiting for a CFL team".  A ton.  There are every year.  It's the guys with a few years under their belt that get cut and no team picks up, often around 10 per team, every year.  On the "couch sitters" thread I literally listed like 50 that would fit into our immediate needs.

[TecnoGenius]

I wouldn't think the number of players with bonus's spend significant time on the 6 game IR. In that sense I don't think it would be a large amount to take into account in that way.

True.  It would be a great exercise if someone with a good grasp of Bomber salaries could list all the IR people right now along with our best guess as to what each one's bonus was.  We always see the huge stars getting bonuses, but do the middling or 3rd year guys ever get one too?

For instance, does a guy like Lawson get a signing bonus?  Lofton?

Again. It's not about the amount, it's about an odd exception which I don't believe was intended.

100%!  It evolved organically as players/teams worked out what was best for their players/teams.  No one at league HQ woke up one day and said "hey let's screw teams out of their bonus money on the SMS savings on 6GIR".

As I've pointed out, most teams don't even spend the entire SMS they have at year end. Giving them extra relief potentially just means there is more left.

I see no proof of this, or even chatter about it.  Until I see otherwise, I'll believe every team spends close to the cap.  Sure, they may leave $0-$100k in the pot for late-season last-minute pickups or injury coverage, but that isn't "we're poor", that's prudent planning for a GC run.  See: MTL 2023.

Using Lawler as an example again. Guesstimate his bonus was $90K. That's $5K per game for 18 games. If he misses 6 games on IR the SMS value is worth $30K. That's just slightly more than the Bombers over spent on the 2023 SMS.

I wouldn't look at it in terms of overage, as I don't think it's helpful to the argument.  I look at how the issue harms the on-field product and "show" in the here and now: and that is directly observable by the fact that right now we don't get that $30k-ish to spend on a quality vet R like we would if bonus was afforded SMS relief.  That means we field a <insert noname here> instead of <insert vet like Ellingson's name here>.

That is immediate, real world, and real impact that every fan can understand.  That is where the strength of the argument lies.

[TecnoGenius]

One of the talking points regarding this topic is the question of whether WPG is harder hit by 6GIR's this year than other teams.  Or, perhaps, harder hit compared to previous, "normal" years.

I've seen people arguing both sides here and on other threads.

I think now, after week 3, that WPG is hurting on the 6GIR more than every team, especially when you factor in talent level lost.  Our situation now that Schoen is out is like if Hollins and McInnis and Berryhill were all knocked out by week 3.  Actually, even that isn't close to our pain because McInnins is not a $225+ R like Lawler/Schoen are.

It's more like if EDM lost 2 Eugene Lewises.  We're talking league-top-5 paid Rs here.

We've been spoiled for so long with massive luck on the injury front.  Maybe other teams have been dealing with this rotten luck for years and we just didn't notice that much.  Looks like it's all catching up with us in 2024.

There certainly is no argument, though, that 2024 is certainly the worst injury year for WPG in a decade.

[Blue In BC]

True.  It would be a great exercise if someone with a good grasp of Bomber salaries could list all the IR people right now along with our best guess as to what each one's bonus was.  We always see the huge stars getting bonuses, but do the middling or 3rd year guys ever get one too?

For instance, does a guy like Lawson get a signing bonus?  Lofton?

100%!  It evolved organically as players/teams worked out what was best for their players/teams.  No one at league HQ woke up one day and said "hey let's screw teams out of their bonus money on the SMS savings on 6GIR".

I see no proof of this, or even chatter about it.  Until I see otherwise, I'll believe every team spends close to the cap.  Sure, they may leave $0-$100k in the pot for late-season last-minute pickups or injury coverage, but that isn't "we're poor", that's prudent planning for a GC run.  See: MTL 2023.

I wouldn't look at it in terms of overage, as I don't think it's helpful to the argument.  I look at how the issue harms the on-field product and "show" in the here and now: and that is directly observable by the fact that right now we don't get that $30k-ish to spend on a quality vet R like we would if bonus was afforded SMS relief.  That means we field a <insert noname here> instead of <insert vet like Ellingson's name here>.

That is immediate, real world, and real impact that every fan can understand.  That is where the strength of the argument lies.

I only meant that whatever money isn't spent during the season, teams use to re-sign their potential free agents before year end. Since only a few teams ever go over the SMS, then there is some nominal money left.

Bombers went over by $25K more or less but I suspect that was due to some of those bonus money's paid.

I doubt any team had significant SMS left since there would be no advantage in doing so. There is an advantage of using up whatever is left.

Picking up a veteran is difficult even if one exists. If you bring one in you may not be able to release him due to veteran cut down date.

If we brought in a veteran this week and Lawler didn't come off IR for another 6 weeks we'd be into that range. If Schoen is done for the season, that changes the math but it can be an issue.

To some degree it was part of the reason we didn't bring in Sankey in 2023 as depth. You still need to fit in the extra players into the SMS.

[theaardvark]

Does the league limit bonuses?  If you pay out too much bonus, you can actually be in a negative position when it comes to replacing the player with an ELC contract.

If there is not already, they should make it so that bonuses cannot exceed the contract - the current ELC, that way, any 6 game time is $SMS neutral with an ELC replacement...

[Blue In BC]

Does the league limit bonuses?  If you pay out too much bonus, you can actually be in a negative position when it comes to replacing the player with an ELC contract.

If there is not already, they should make it so that bonuses cannot exceed the contract - the current ELC, that way, any 6 game time is $SMS neutral with an ELC replacement...

I don't think there is a limit. Most veterans re-signing get some up front money. An ELC coming off his 1st deal might not get a significant raise and just gets $5K-$10K. Others like Schoen get a large raise and more up front guaranteed money.

An interesting question whether anyone gets more that leaves less to earn than the ELC.

Just a guess but I don't see teams doing that regardless of the contract level. IE: a contract worth $100K is not getting $80K up front. It would be bad business and a disincentive IMO.

[theaardvark]

I don't think there is a limit. Most veterans re-signing get some up front money. An ELC coming off his 1st deal might not get a significant raise and just gets $5K-$10K. Others like Schoen get a large raise and more up front guaranteed money.

An interesting question whether anyone gets more that leaves less to earn than the ELC.

Just a guess but I don't see teams doing that regardless of the contract level. IE: a contract worth $100K is not getting $80K up front. It would be bad business and a disincentive IMO.

But someone restructuring from $200k to $165k with a $110k bonus (which would net the same after tax in many states) would leave only $55k of $SMS.  Saves us $35k on the $SMS, but puts us negative should they get injured, even with an ELC replacing him.

[Blue In BC]

But someone restructuring from $200k to $165k with a $110k bonus (which would net the same after tax in many states) would leave only $55k of $SMS.  Saves us $35k on the $SMS, but puts us negative should they get injured, even with an ELC replacing him.

I get the math, I just don't think a team would do that. The other part of that would be the total time of the injury, to make that more of a factor I suppose.

[TecnoGenius]

Does the league limit bonuses?  If you pay out too much bonus, you can actually be in a negative position when it comes to replacing the player with an ELC contract.

Good question.  My hunch is the middling players often don't get a signing bonus at all, or just a tiny one.  And the top-$ players earn so much they can do $100-$150k bonus and still be earning a greater-than-ELC salary.

I have a question for you: can a player coming off ELC earn less than ELC?  Or is there some sort of league "minimum wage"?  I guess there has to be, or many ST NATs would have to play for $30k.

If there is not already, they should make it so that bonuses cannot exceed the contract - the current ELC, that way, any 6 game time is $SMS neutral with an ELC replacement...

Sounds great, but doesn't help one bit when you have your top 2 players making a combined $550k get injured in the same timespan.  Isn't that a full 1/10th of the cap?  Yes, it ensures you can replace Kenny & Schoen with ELCs... but ELCs do not replace Kenny & Schoen!  They take up space and lead to lost games.  That's doesn't help our on-field product or competitiveness.  Hence this entire thread...

[theaardvark]

Good question.  My hunch is the middling players often don't get a signing bonus at all, or just a tiny one.  And the top-$ players earn so much they can do $100-$150k bonus and still be earning a greater-than-ELC salary.

I have a question for you: can a player coming off ELC earn less than ELC?  Or is there some sort of league "minimum wage"?  I guess there has to be, or many ST NATs would have to play for $30k.

Sounds great, but doesn't help one bit when you have your top 2 players making a combined $550k get injured in the same timespan.  Isn't that a full 1/10th of the cap?  Yes, it ensures you can replace Kenny & Schoen with ELCs... but ELCs do not replace Kenny & Schoen!  They take up space and lead to lost games.  That's doesn't help our on-field product or competitiveness.  Hence this entire thread...

My point about bonuses not being greater than contract - ELC is not a competitive issue, but a cap issue, ensuing the body on the ar you are replacing a star with has a minimum cap space available.  Now, if you decide to "cheat" the $SMS by utilizing the tax break on bonuses, you run the risk of not having the $SMS to replace an injured layer with someone of equivalent value. 

We rolled the dice this year, and it looks like we lost big time.

[Blue In BC]

My point about bonuses not being greater than contract - ELC is not a competitive issue, but a cap issue, ensuing the body on the ar you are replacing a star with has a minimum cap space available.  Now, if you decide to "cheat" the $SMS by utilizing the tax break on bonuses, you run the risk of not having the $SMS to replace an injured layer with someone of equivalent value. 

We rolled the dice this year, and it looks like we lost big time.

Hard to say. If the balance of Schoen's deal was $100K, we'd gain $25K of SMS for the season. It's just guesstimate math at the moment. OTOH it means we lost $130K of SMS relief on the advance money if that's the breakdown.

Those are the breaks. Could we have believed we'd lose him for the season in game # 2? Yikes!!