Stamps at Elks GDT Sat 600PM CT

[Pete]

I think the Elks coaching staff is nuts to mess with the success MBT has finally brought them after so many losses, they'll make a quick reversal if Ford loses to the Bombers again.  Have to watch out for their running game, currently building a 3-headed monster that could be hard to contain.

They need to see if Ford is the qb of the future.If they don't play him he goes to free agency. 

[Jesse]

They need to see if Ford is the qb of the future.If they don't play him he goes to free agency. 

This is a good point too.

[Big Daddy]

Ya, b4l is right on this one, half this forum wanted EDM to start Ford instead of MBT while EDM was losing.  We can go back and prove it!  To toot my own horn, I said stick with MBT!  (toot toot!)  I don't think Ford will be GC-winning material for several years, if ever.  Give him enough games and good Ds will figure him out and destroy him.  (He would/does make a great #2 though!)

MBT is basically the epitome of a traditional CFL pocket passer, like most of the recent greats (Zach, BLM, Ray).  He's unafraid to gun it (ya, gets some INTs), and a bit crazy so he'll stay in the pocket and take hits to deliver the ball.  He's not perfect, but he's proven he can get you to, and win a cup.

I'm curious why you mention Zach as an example of a traditional CFL pocket passer.  I know he will stand and take the hit, but he isn't like Ray in his late years standing and throwing, not yet anyway.  I've always seen Zach as someone that breaks loose and throws on the fly, sometimes in mid-air, often not planted at all, and making precision passes in the process on the move.

Am I way off on that?

[dd]

Zach reminds me more of Tommy Clements than Ricky Ray. Man, the Bombers were awesome back in the TC era!!

[Big Daddy]

Zach reminds me more of Tommy Clements than Ricky Ray. Man, the Bombers were awesome back in the TC era!!

They were awesome back in the TC era.  But they are more awesome now if you are comparing TC to ZC, to be honest.

And I agree - Zach doesn't resemble later Ricky, more comparable to Tommy.  Maybe even the great Matt D!

[TecnoGenius]

I'm curious why you mention Zach as an example of a traditional CFL pocket passer.  I know he will stand and take the hit

Ya, I guess Zach can't be seen as a pure pocket passer, but he is more of a Ray/BLM than a Ford/VAJ.

So I guess we need to make a spectrum of "pocketiness".  So I'll adjust my POV to Zach being much closer in pocketiness to Ray than to Ford.

Zach is nearly as "pockety" now as BLM/MBT.

Yes, Zach used to be more mobile, but even then he was a scrambler to buy time to still throw.  He was never a run-first Ford/Crum, or even a run-often VAJ/Rourke.  Heck, he is even more pockety than Mike Reilly.  And by "run" I mean running past the LoS, not just wheeling out to buy time to pass.

but he isn't like Ray in his late years standing and throwing, not yet anyway. 

I'd place the stress on your addendum: "not yet anyway".  Every season Zach becomes more Ray and less Reilly.  And that's normal seeing his age and history.  Will he ever be fully-Ray, immovable from the pocket?  Nah, probably not.

Maybe that's why I worded it "traditional CFL pocket passer", because the best ones in that mold weren't pure pocket passers, they were pocket-mostly passers.  And that is what probably typifies the best CFL QBs of the last decade.  Ray then becomes the anomaly, an extreme used to make a point / comparison.

[Big Daddy]

Ya, I guess Zach can't be seen as a pure pocket passer, but he is more of a Ray/BLM than a Ford/VAJ.

So I guess we need to make a spectrum of "pocketiness".  So I'll adjust my POV to Zach being much closer in pocketiness to Ray than to Ford.

Zach is nearly as "pockety" now as BLM/MBT.

Yes, Zach used to be more mobile, but even then he was a scrambler to buy time to still throw.  He was never a run-first Ford/Crum, or even a run-often VAJ/Rourke.  Heck, he is even more pockety than Mike Reilly.  And by "run" I mean running past the LoS, not just wheeling out to buy time to pass.

I'd place the stress on your addendum: "not yet anyway".  Every season Zach becomes more Ray and less Reilly.  And that's normal seeing his age and history.  Will he ever be fully-Ray, immovable from the pocket?  Nah, probably not.

Maybe that's why I worded it "traditional CFL pocket passer", because the best ones in that mold weren't pure pocket passers, they were pocket-mostly passers.  And that is what probably typifies the best CFL QBs of the last decade.  Ray then becomes the anomaly, an extreme used to make a point / comparison.

Great clarification, that's exactly what I was wondering.  I think part of the confusion for me is the definition of running past LoS as defining being "pockety" as I agree, Zach doesn't do that a ton (thankfully with his history) but he evades tackles a lot by leaving the pocket to extend plays.

And again I agree - he privy winky won't become a pure pocket passer like later Ray or Calvillo.  For now I still see him as way more mobile and thus further away from either of them and more in keeping with the run and gun young'uns in the league.  At least for now.

[Jesse]

I'm curious why you mention Zach as an example of a traditional CFL pocket passer.  I know he will stand and take the hit, but he isn't like Ray in his late years standing and throwing, not yet anyway.  I've always seen Zach as someone that breaks loose and throws on the fly, sometimes in mid-air, often not planted at all, and making precision passes in the process on the move.

Am I way off on that?

It sounds like you're talking about younger Zach, to be honest.

He used to look like Tommy Clements 2.0 but he doesn't play like that anymore. You see it in flashes, but it's not central to his game anymore.

[theaardvark]

They need to see if Ford is the qb of the future.If they don't play him he goes to free agency. 

Maybe with Rourke getting his ridiculous deal, the idea of a Nat QB has become less odd.

Maybe the owner wants a marketing tool as well.