2023 Free Agency Transactions - Blue Bombers
Opens at 12 noon ET February 14, 2023
Blue Bomber player announcements and discussions will be in this thread. CFL Free Agency chart follows...
https://www.cfl.ca/fa23
Confirmed - Blue Bombers sign Kenny Lawler to a two-year contract.
Quote from: ModAdmin on February 14, 2023, 04:26:38 PM
Confirmed - Blue Bombers sign Kenny Lawler to a two-year contract.
Love it. ;D
Dave Naylor
@TSNDaveNaylor
?
Follow
Can confirm Schoen will be a member of @Wpg_BlueBombers this season. Big win retaining the league?s leading receiver and rookie of the year. #Bombers
Schoen and Lawler as 1a and 1b, Demski as #3, and a combination of Woli, BOLO, Agadosi, Mc Crea, and a fresh crop of rookies to fill out the #4 through #6 spots....looks good
Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on February 14, 2023, 05:08:01 PM
Schoen and Lawler as 1a and 1b, Demski as #3, and a combination of Woli, BOLO, Agadosi, Mc Crea, and a fresh crop of rookies to fill out the #4 through #6 spots....looks good
Don't forget Grant as backup in a pinch if needed. No superstar rec but knows the system and we know he's got the wheels. Good to have.
Quote from: blue_or_die on February 14, 2023, 05:42:27 PM
Don't forget Grant as backup in a pinch if needed. No superstar rec but knows the system and we know he's got the wheels. Good to have.
Send him deep to clear out the shorter stuff.
Ed Tait
@EdTaitWFC
1m
Dalton Schoen's NFL window has closed and he'll be back to the @Wpg_BlueBombers
Dakota Prukop headed to the USFL.
Quote from: blue_or_die on February 14, 2023, 05:42:27 PM
Don't forget Grant as backup in a pinch if needed. No superstar rec but knows the system and we know he's got the wheels. Good to have.
Ah yes, sorry and Grant
What was the name of that tall drink of water, who played one game and tore up his knee? Hows he doing?
Quote from: DM83 on February 14, 2023, 07:21:36 PM
What was the name of that tall drink of water, who played one game and tore up his knee? Hows he doing?
Carlton Agudosi?
Bombers might pick up some back up / depth players at the right price today? I still like Justin Herman as a good ST player.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 15, 2023, 02:15:31 PM
Bombers might pick up some back up / depth players at the right price today? I still like Justin Herman as a good ST player.
Are you talking about Justin Herdman?
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 15, 2023, 02:15:31 PM
Bombers might pick up some back up / depth players at the right price today? I still like Justin Herman as a good ST player.
Hell aren't both Herdman's equally good special teams players and....Winnipeg boys?
Quote from: KINGCHARLES on February 15, 2023, 04:06:10 PM
Hell aren't both Herdman's equally good special teams players and....Winnipeg boys?
Jordan has had problems with injuries and hasn't played much lately. Justin had 10 St last season. Both pretty solid when healthy.
Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on February 14, 2023, 05:08:01 PM
Schoen and Lawler as 1a and 1b, Demski as #3, and a combination of Woli, BOLO, Agadosi, Mc Crea, and a fresh crop of rookies to fill out the #4 through #6 spots....looks good
Man its so exciting that our team has the league leading WR's from the last 2 seasons on the same team. I feel like Schoen, and Lawler are going to be the deeper threat/scramble targets and Demski, Woli, Agudosi and BOLO will be more of the possesion/1st down targets. I completely forgot about McCrae, he was a very surprising and exciting dual threat RB last year, i hope we can fully utilize his potential in our loaded offence.
Craziest thing is I'm fully anticipating Brady O to have a huge breakout year this year and be even more like a young Andrew Harris out of the backfield. Im basically expecting him to improve on his rushing abilities and catching more passes out of the backfield.
Y'all wanna know something kinda mindblowing .... since the 2017 season the Bombers have been the highest scoring or 2nd highest scoring team every season. Theres a couple key factors there. Buck Pierce and that OL.
I would like for us to bring in Sankey and have the option for a 3/4 or 4/3 defense. If Wilson or Bighill go down we would be ok and if a DT shows up at TC all the better. Briggs or Gauthier we not bad but it made a difference when they were in. Also it could give Bighill a rest during games as age is starting to get up there, BC went 3/4 with Bighill and it worked out pretty good.
Quote from: Blue72 on February 15, 2023, 04:26:15 PM
I would like for us to bring in Sankey and have the option for a 3/4 or 4/3 defense. If Wilson or Bighill go down we would be ok and if a DT shows up at TC all the better. Briggs or Gauthier we not bad but it made a difference when they were in. Also it could give Bighill a rest during games as age is starting to get up there, BC went 3/4 with Bighill and it worked out pretty good.
First of all, Sankey is not that good. He racks up a bunch of tackles because the Rider defence was alwayson the field facing the run.
Second, he's not back with the Riders because he undeservedly wants to be the highest paid american LB - he ain't coming back to be behind Bighill (the highest paid american LB).
Third, he signed with the XFL.
Sankey reportedly turned down a $160K offer from the Riders. No way he was on the Bombers' radar - for a number of reasons.
Quote from: Blue72 on February 15, 2023, 04:26:15 PM
I would like for us to bring in Sankey and have the option for a 3/4 or 4/3 defense.
Sankey would probably be good here, but our roster plan doesn't allow $$ for high quality LB backups. If we take an injury there we use our depth (and/or NATs), and can always hit the emergency-panic phones for any couch guys who didn't get any FA offers.
On the plus side, Bighill and his stretch program basically never get injured (at least not to the "sidelined" extent). I love Biggie, and you gotta hand it to him for being on the most SMS-friendly contract for an all-star LBer. Truly a team-first guy. He deserves another ring...
I wonder if the Bombers are looking at a player like Davon Coleman.
Or Mike Moore , who can also play de.
Quote from: KINGCHARLES on February 15, 2023, 04:17:58 PM
Man its so exciting that our team has the league leading WR's from the last 2 seasons on the same team. I feel like Schoen, and Lawler are going to be the deeper threat/scramble targets and Demski, Woli, Agudosi and BOLO will be more of the possesion/1st down targets. I completely forgot about McCrae, he was a very surprising and exciting dual threat RB last year, i hope we can fully utilize his potential in our loaded offence.
Craziest thing is I'm fully anticipating Brady O to have a huge breakout year this year and be even more like a young Andrew Harris out of the backfield. Im basically expecting him to improve on his rushing abilities and catching more passes out of the backfield.
Y'all wanna know something kinda mindblowing .... since the 2017 season the Bombers have been the highest scoring or 2nd highest scoring team every season. Theres a couple key factors there. Buck Pierce and that OL.
There's a number of factors that make a good offense-strong recieving corps, great O line, strong running game, decent game plan, but the KEY factor for our offense scoring big points, is the guy under centre. Without Collaros, our offense takes a big hit, he continually makes plays when nothing is there, so ya , kudos to pierce and OL, but without ZC we'd be no where near tops in the league offensively.
Quote from: Pete on February 15, 2023, 11:20:00 PM
Or Mike Moore , who can also play de.
Mike Moore had a very good season.
No rumours of any Bomber acquisitions for depth players?
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 16, 2023, 07:16:40 PM
No rumours of any Bomber acquisitions for depth players?
We're waiting for the dregs. We've blown the wad. The only way we get more FA vets is if they've exhausted all other options and they can have no choice but to accept our lowball offer.
The rest is up to the scouts and some miracle IMP ELCs. I wonder who they have dialled up?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 17, 2023, 05:18:38 AM
We're waiting for the dregs. We've blown the wad. The only way we get more FA vets is if they've exhausted all other options and they can have no choice but to accept our lowball offer.
The rest is up to the scouts and some miracle IMP ELCs. I wonder who they have dialled up?
Several points:
1. Teams never spend all their SMS by this time.
2. There is always a contingency left to be able sin players that come available during TC and the season.
3. The SMS is fluid and and will change before and during TC.
I'm not expecting to be looking for or signing a $150K + player but we might find some depth players in the $$85K - #115K. That could result in changes to our DI's for example.
My rough count of remaining free agents is about 65. Many of those are on the wrong side of 33 years old and may be either out of the CFL or too expensive. Bombers don't need another DB or OL free agent so that really reduces the number falling into any interest. Can't see any DL that would interest us financially.
That said, Deion Adams could be re-signed if there is no or very little signing bonus. I thought he showed enough to get an invite to TC.
I'd think a receiver or LB might be somewhere we might think about but slim groups one way or another. I've always liked M. Awe and he could be an upgrade to Clements.
Could be another 10-15 players committing somewhere today including the spring leagues. So it's close to now or never, bottom of the barrel?
I think the biggest factor in any other additions will be character. Walters and O'Shea won't be picking up bargain guys that are problem children. They will possibly take a depth guy with heart that can play ST and wants to contribute any way he can. They won't be taking on guys that are hot heads or take penalties.
I think this years draft might have a player or two that make the roster, as well as previous draft picks coming to camp... we pick 8, 15, 26, 35, etc... all our picks this year, albeit 2nd last each round for our success...
Quote from: theaardvark on February 17, 2023, 04:23:07 PM
I think the biggest factor in any other additions will be character. Walters and O'Shea won't be picking up bargain guys that are problem children. They will possibly take a depth guy with heart that can play ST and wants to contribute any way he can. They won't be taking on guys that are hot heads or take penalties.
I think this years draft might have a player or two that make the roster, as well as previous draft picks coming to camp... we pick 8, 15, 26, 35, etc... all our picks this year, albeit 2nd last each round for our success...
I agree but we're not entirely sure what players are like on other rosters. We may see a given talent level but won't always know how they are as team mates. Other players may know that and our management probably know that, so no doubt they make good decisions on that basis.
Each year a few new draft choices make at least the PR. As the roster improves each year, it's more difficult to see where opportunity exists for a new player to push a veteran. IMO it will almost take an injury to see many Canadian rookies immediately make the AR.
No doubt we draft an OL but he'll start on the PR or go back to University for another year. If there is a DE that we draft that shows well there could be a chance to eliminate the need for an import as a DE DI? Roster size, ratio and positional needs are always a juggling act.
Potential injuries in TC change the odds a bit but there don't look to be many holes to fill.
Blue Bombers agree to terms with American WR Bailey on one-year contract
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/rasheed-bailey-agrees-to-terms-winnipeg-blue-bombers-on-one-year-deal-1.1920653
Well, it took time, but its nice that Showtime Sheed is back. I didn't think it would happen, but I guess Mr. Walters found a way to fit him in the budget. Have to wonder if the difference between Prukop and a QB3 on an ELC was the difference...
Quote from: Freebird on February 17, 2023, 06:12:54 PM
Blue Bombers agree to terms with American WR Bailey on one-year contract
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/rasheed-bailey-agrees-to-terms-winnipeg-blue-bombers-on-one-year-deal-1.1920653
Awesome!
Reports indicate he took less money to stay with the Blue Bombers.
Bomber will have a lot of headway when it comes to the playbook since most of our guys are now signed.
2023 is gonna be exciting.
Lol!
OK so someone tell me what area "wanting?"
What a great signing!!
Quote from: Freebird on February 17, 2023, 06:12:54 PM
Blue Bombers agree to terms with American WR Bailey on one-year contract
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/rasheed-bailey-agrees-to-terms-winnipeg-blue-bombers-on-one-year-deal-1.1920653
He must have discovered that the grass is not always that greener.
Not the signing that we've been waiting for but this guy should be competition for Leggs punting:
https://www.betweenthegoalposts.com/post/cfl-winnipeg-blue-bombers-sign-devin-anctil
Have to wonder whether using a DI spot for a P is being used instead of G because we have such good Global players already... and a P on an ELC is going to be very cheap...
Good signing, if he can punt as well or better than Leggs, Leggs can concentrate on K.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 23, 2023, 02:33:46 PM
Have to wonder whether using a DI spot for a P is being used instead of G because we have such good Global players already... and a P on an ELC is going to be very cheap...
Good signing, if he can punt as well or better than Leggs, Leggs can concentrate on K.
Agreed. I think it's unsustainable to ask him to do both duties
If this helps his kicking then we are looking good!
I'm not in favor of using a DI spot for a kicker/punter unless the guy can do all 3 kick job like Medlock. It's a waste of roster spot imo.
For me in order of preference ...
Ideal...
- Canadian doing all three
- American (DI) doing all three
- Combo of Canadian kicker / punter
These are waste of a roster spot
- Combo of Canadian and American kicker / punter
- Combo of American kicker / punter
Quote from: M.O.A.B. on February 23, 2023, 03:02:28 PM
I'm not in favor of using a DI spot for a kicker/punter unless the guy can do all 3 kick job like Medlock. It's a waste of roster spot imo.
For me in order of preference ...
Ideal...
- Canadian doing all three
- American (DI) doing all three
- Combo of Canadian kicker / punter
These are waste of a roster spot
- Combo of Canadian and American kicker / punter
- Combo of American kicker / punter
Yeah it's a tough sell to use a DI spot for a kicker unless he does all kicking duties and excels at each. I'd still be looking for a very good global kicker to compete. We have a few good global players so that becomes a possible issue, but it's the direction I'd choose. That's if we choose to roster 2 kickers.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 23, 2023, 03:20:21 PM
Yeah it's a tough sell to use a DI spot for a kicker unless he does all kicking duties and excels at each. I'd still be looking for a very good global kicker to compete. We have a few good global players so that becomes a possible issue, but it's the direction I'd choose. That's if we choose to roster 2 kickers.
Yeah.
Makes it seem as if this is purely a move to push Leggs, and not a candidate that could realistically replace him - regardless of how well he does.
But the Bombers do unexpected things with their special teams at times.
I hope this new kicker can hammer the ball deep on kickoffs as Leggs didn't kick the ball deep giving the opposition good field position every time.
Quote from: Jesse on February 23, 2023, 03:27:54 PM
Yeah.
Makes it seem as if this is purely a move to push Leggs, and not a candidate that could realistically replace him - regardless of how well he does.
But the Bombers do unexpected things with their special teams at times.
It's never a bad idea to sign talent, and putting a kid like this on the PR as insurance until he develops as an asset is okay. But realistically, this can only be seen as "pushing" Legghio in an indirect sense. We are happy with Legghio's punting, so the question is whether there is a placekicker who can push him. If the right placekicker comes along, then having another punter in the back pocket opens up possibilities.
I think at the end of the day, we are just going to end up being patient with Legghio, and I'm okay with that.
Quote from: LXTSN on February 23, 2023, 02:13:34 PM
Not the signing that we've been waiting for but this guy should be competition for Leggs punting:
https://www.betweenthegoalposts.com/post/cfl-winnipeg-blue-bombers-sign-devin-anctil
He must have been a teammate of Schoen at some point as he played at KSU from 2016-2019.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 23, 2023, 05:20:16 PM
He must have been a teammate of Schoen at some point as he played at KSU from 2016-2019.
Yes:
Robert Dalton@RougeDalts
#Bombers have signed P Devin Anctil. From Kansas State. Teammate of Dalton Schoen.
Weird, when I searched for that tweet, another one came up from 2019...
Greg Woods@GregWWoods
Oct 5, 2019
Baylor 31, K-State 12. Final.
? Offense was bad, save for Dalton Schoen
? Devin Anctil was excellent
? Defense gave up big plays
Lot more to unpack from this one. Story coming.
The interesting thing about Devin Anctil is he also an experienced holder. I could not think of why we did not sign a PK instead of. P until I thought of this. Then again he was also a PK in Community College. I guess we will see.
Quote from: Tiger on February 24, 2023, 05:02:40 AM
The interesting thing about Devin Anctil is he also an experienced holder. I could not think of why we did not sign a PK instead of. P until I thought of this. Then again he was also a PK in Community College. I guess we will see.
Prukop was holding last year... always makes sense to have a dedicated holder, and who better than a dedicated punter. A guy who is already working with the LS, and would just be standing on the sidelines otherwise.
I guess Leggs could hold for himself... there is the whole rule for dropkicking...
Quote from: theaardvark on February 24, 2023, 04:45:09 PM
Prukop was holding last year... always makes sense to have a dedicated holder, and who better than a dedicated punter. A guy who is already working with the LS, and would just be standing on the sidelines otherwise.
I guess Leggs could hold for himself... there is the whole rule for dropkicking...
Again, IMO we'd be hard pressed to use a DI spot for a punter. All the complaints about Liegghio were about PK both in accuracy and depth. While I think we need to continue to let him develop, adding a punter is neither a +/- to that issue.
Last year we retained Mourtada on the PR. Barring injury that's currently where I'd expect this new punter to be at the end of TC.
The preference would still be to add a global kicker of some sort to reside on our PR. It would be easier to activate him within the ratio if an injury happened.
Also the preference would be for a # 3 QB to be the holder in the event we need to do some sort of fake.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 24, 2023, 05:21:22 PM
Again, IMO we'd be hard pressed to use a DI spot for a punter. All the complaints about Liegghio were about PK both in accuracy and depth. While I think we need to continue to let him develop, adding a punter is neither a +/- to that issue.
Last year we retained Mourtada on the PR. Barring injury that's currently where I'd expect this new punter to be at the end of TC.
The preference would still be to add a global kicker of some sort to reside on our PR. It would be easier to activate him within the ratio if an injury happened.
Also the preference would be for a # 3 QB to be the holder in the event we need to do some sort of fake.
With a K that is a NAT, and Globals for what would usually be 2 DI positions (DE and LB), I have no issue with using a DI on a P/holder, especially is Prukop does not return.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 24, 2023, 05:21:22 PM
Again, IMO we'd be hard pressed to use a DI spot for a punter. All the complaints about Liegghio were about PK both in accuracy and depth. While I think we need to continue to let him develop, adding a punter is neither a +/- to that issue.
Ya, I have no idea what people are smoking. We were hard pressed to waste a DI spot on the league's best K/P with Meddie! No way we waste a DI on just a P! (And also being a H doesn't change that.)
Maybe the goal is to have him coach up Leggs with some P tips? Or maybe just to keep Leggs from getting complacent (read: realizing we have nobody we could possibly replace him with).
An IMP P-only is virtually useless in the CFL.
Next
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2023, 06:32:55 PM
Ya, I have no idea what people are smoking. We were hard pressed to waste a DI spot on the league's best K/P with Meddie! No way we waste a DI on just a P! (And also being a H doesn't change that.)
Maybe the goal is to have him coach up Leggs with some P tips? Or maybe just to keep Leggs from getting complacent (read: realizing we have nobody we could possibly replace him with).
An IMP P-only is virtually useless in the CFL.
Next
You do understand a roster needs to be managed as a whole, right?
We have one of the better DI DE's in the league in Hansen. Except, he isn't a DI, he's a GLB.
Many teams use their GLB spot for a P.
Our roster with a DE and P taking up a DI and a GLB is nothing unusual. The fact they are reversed as compared to what other teams do makes no never mind.
Having actual feildable skill players in GLB spots give you the roster flexibility to have a DI P.
And, having a dedicated P tqakes a huge load off Leggs, letting him get his K role nailed down. He's a more than capable P, and should he need to do both in the future, great. But in the meantime...
Quote from: theaardvark on February 24, 2023, 06:11:46 PM
With a K that is a NAT, and Globals for what would usually be 2 DI positions (DE and LB), I have no issue with using a DI on a P/holder, especially is Prukop does not return.
I don't know that Maruo is better than Clements ( or another import LB ) to not use a DI spot for a LB. Maruo did well in 2022 so that's something to watch in TC. However at this point, I don't see him just filling that role.
Great to have Hansen back but again, we used a DI spot for a DE ( Wilcots ) and a DT throughout the season.
I expect a bunch of rookie DE's and DT's in TC, so it's all TBD. Noting that a DE is going to see a lot more reps than a punter if the offence is clicking.
Expectation is that we use DI spots for a Returner, a DT, a DB and one player to be determined. I'd almost bet money it isn't for an import punter.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2023, 06:32:55 PM
Ya, I have no idea what people are smoking. We were hard pressed to waste a DI spot on the league's best K/P with Meddie! No way we waste a DI on just a P! (And also being a H doesn't change that.)
Maybe the goal is to have him coach up Leggs with some P tips? Or maybe just to keep Leggs from getting complacent (read: realizing we have nobody we could possibly replace him with).
An IMP P-only is virtually useless in the CFL.
Next
That depends on if it would help Leggs kick field goals and converts at a high percentage.
There's not a lot of guys that take on both roles so if we can go from 80% to 90% that would be a huge thing for us. Plus it would improve our punting at the same time.
It's not ideal but it would probably make more of an impact over having one more LB or DE on the active roster.
Quote from: LXTSN on February 24, 2023, 08:34:46 PM
That depends on if it would help Leggs kick field goals and converts at a high percentage.
There's not a lot of guys that take on both roles so if we can go from 80% to 90% that would be a huge thing for us. Plus it would improve our punting at the same time.
It's not ideal but it would probably make more of an impact over having one more LB or DE on the active roster.
I'd disagree. We had Mourtada on the PR all of 2022. He had a stronger leg for kick offs and punting. His directional kicking was not as good but we choose to not activate him even once.
There seems to be a rush for Liegghio to be flawless in only his 2nd season as the full time kicker. In any case having him not punt is no guarantee that his other kicking improves. That should tell you something. We didn't add other import kickers to our PR in 2022 that I recall. That also tells us something.
I'm also not convinced that our shorter K/O's were not by design at times for our coverage team. It didn't always work out but that's a conversation with the ST coach.
Quote from: LXTSN on February 24, 2023, 08:34:46 PM
That depends on if it would help Leggs kick field goals and converts at a high percentage.
It's not ideal but it would probably make more of an impact over having one more LB or DE on the active roster.
Why would it, though?
I thought Leggs was pretty good at P. He was very good directionally, and good at not outkicking the coverage. At worst you could say his P distance was a tiny bit under what we would have liked.
So we take away the duty he's good at (P) so he can play the stuff he's weaker-ish at (PAT,FG)? Is "he can concentrate more" really a thing? Or is this just hope.
I'm with BinBC... except I would bet
actual big money we don't DI a pure-P.
As for "more impact", our DEs (and DTs) are always getting tired and/or dinged up and we need the rotation if we get behind on ToP. Fresh DL totally beats out a maybe-5-punts-a-game IMP P.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2023, 09:22:39 PM
Why would it, though?
I thought Leggs was pretty good at P. He was very good directionally, and good at not outkicking the coverage. At worst you could say his P distance was a tiny bit under what we would have liked.
So we take away the duty he's good at (P) so he can play the stuff he's weaker-ish at (PAT,FG)? Is "he can concentrate more" really a thing? Or is this just hope.
I'm with BinBC... except I would bet actual big money we don't DI a pure-P.
As for "more impact", our DEs (and DTs) are always getting tired and/or dinged up and we need the rotation if we get behind on ToP. Fresh DL totally beats out a maybe-5-punts-a-game IMP P.
It's completely just hope. But this time of year we do a lot of "hoping" on this board!
My point would be that IF this helps Leggs kick field goals at a top 3 percentage in the league, I would rather sacrifice one DI spot for a punter.
Ultimately neither of us know if it will help him, but it does seem like every other team in the league has a seperate punter and kicker. If that's our weak point and this might help, let's give it a shot right?
Bombers were very impressive in being able to retain most of their roster before free agency. Might have been one of the best years in recent memory. There only about 50 potential free agents left. I'd guess 10-15 will retire one way or another. Slim pickens. A few decent players but those are becoming SMS casualties.
CFL Headlines
@CFL_Headlines
1h
Bombers' GM Kyle Walters promises 'legit competition' for kicker Marc Liegghio in training camp: The Winnipeg Blue Bombers plan to have plenty of kickers in training camp following the inconsistent performance of Marc Liegghio during? https://3downnation.com/2023/02/28/bombers-gm-kyle-walters-promises-legit-competition-for-kicker-marc-liegghio-in-training-camp/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
via @3DownNation
Quote from: ModAdmin on February 28, 2023, 06:49:43 PM
CFL Headlines
@CFL_Headlines
1h
Bombers' GM Kyle Walters promises 'legit competition' for kicker Marc Liegghio in training camp: The Winnipeg Blue Bombers plan to have plenty of kickers in training camp following the inconsistent performance of Marc Liegghio during? https://3downnation.com/2023/02/28/bombers-gm-kyle-walters-promises-legit-competition-for-kicker-marc-liegghio-in-training-camp/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
via @3DownNation
Sure, good idea if we can find someone better than Crapigna and Mourtada that we had in 2021 and 2022. Obviously either a Canadian or Global kicker of some sort would be best option.
Leggs, has had two seasons and this winter to reflect and train for 2023 season. Consistency was one of his biggest problems. Leg strength is the other. Two years of development have be put into Leggs, I hope this year is the year he turns the corner.
Quote from: ModAdmin on February 28, 2023, 06:49:43 PM
CFL Headlines
@CFL_Headlines
1h
Bombers' GM Kyle Walters promises 'legit competition' for kicker Marc Liegghio in training camp: The Winnipeg Blue Bombers plan to have plenty of kickers in training camp following the inconsistent performance of Marc Liegghio during? https://3downnation.com/2023/02/28/bombers-gm-kyle-walters-promises-legit-competition-for-kicker-marc-liegghio-in-training-camp/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
via @3DownNation
Walters firmly understands the situation and will bring players in and address the situation vs stay with the status quo and 'hope' things change. He'll get er done.
At the start of thier careers...
Leggs went from 62.5% to 82.1%
Paredes went from 77.8% to 93%
Kickers get better as time goes by and they learn the pro game.
Doesn't mean he shouldn't be challenged or even replaced.
But he is trending the right way, and no doubt will continue his progress.
Especially if he has someone doing the punting.
Ards.... I love you as a fan.
How does a kicker learn the "pro" game?
All he does is a physical act/ 1-2-3 kick.
He doesn't get touched, the goal posts don't move.
I don't buy that the fans scared him by cheering or booing. I mean its a mechanic, same skill repeated over and over.
He's been doin it since he was ten years old.
Quote from: DM83 on March 06, 2023, 07:44:38 PM
Ards.... I love you as a fan.
How does a kicker learn the "pro" game?
All he does is a physical act/ 1-2-3 kick.
He doesn't get touched, the goal posts don't move.
I don't buy that the fans scared him by cheering or booing. I mean its a mechanic, same skill repeated over and over.
He's been doin it since he was ten years old.
Exactly, the physical part can be mastered. It's the mental part. The pressure of kicking in front of thousands of people with the entire season riding on it. That's what is meant by learning the pro game. Being ready to make the big kick at the right time.
Similar to how in B-Ball people can make free throws in an empty gym or in college but put them in front of a bunch of screaming fans on national TV and suddenly the percentages drop.
Quote from: DM83 on March 06, 2023, 07:44:38 PM
Ards.... I love you as a fan.
How does a kicker learn the "pro" game?
All he does is a physical act/ 1-2-3 kick.
He doesn't get touched, the goal posts don't move.
I don't buy that the fans scared him by cheering or booing. I mean its a mechanic, same skill repeated over and over.
He's been doin it since he was ten years old.
You think he was rushed by the same level of player when he was 10?
Punters/kickers do more than just 1 2 3... they have to do it as close to defenders as they can, and still get the kick away.
Did you watch the game where he sidestepped a rusher who had broken through while he was about to punt? Same thing happened when he was 10, right?
And the pressure is more than just people making noise...
Every position in football has challenges as you rise up the levels.
Yikes.
what it comes down to for a kicker is..Is there a better option than Legghio considering:
1. Free agency didn't have a better kicker available
2. The cfl draft doesn't appear to have a viable option available
3. Do we want to take away an import off the game day roster, that is if a decent kicker is even available, he would have to be significantly better to make this an option. The reason Lirim Hajrullahu is still hanging around the nfl is that there seems to be a shortage ..look at Dallas's Brett Mahers performance in the playoffs.
4. the other option is a global player, but they tend to be mainly punters
Right now Legghio seems to be the best bet.
Quote from: DM83 on March 06, 2023, 07:44:38 PM
Ards.... I love you as a fan.
How does a kicker learn the "pro" game?
All he does is a physical act/ 1-2-3 kick.
He doesn't get touched, the goal posts don't move.
I don't buy that the fans scared him by cheering or booing. I mean its a mechanic, same skill repeated over and over.
He's been doin it since he was ten years old.
I first picked up a golf club when I was 5, yet I somehow still don't get a hole in one every time.
I would definitely give Legghio another year specifically because he's Canadian and the other roster benefits that brings. However, field goals are one thing but he has to make the PATs. Eventually the team dynamic starts to suffer if you can't make those. Professional kicking is mostly mental and some guys have it and some don't. Unfortunately, you can't really know until you try. The reality is Legghio can kick 5000 PATs in practice and it really doesn't matter - it's not the same as a game and it's not the same as a Grey Cup. His evaluation starts week 1.
Quote from: Jesse on March 07, 2023, 11:47:35 AM
I first picked up a gold club when I was 5, yet I somehow still don't get a hole in one every time.
Agree, kickers are going to miss. No kicker is perfect. Leg strength is the issue for me.
Leggs kickoff are not deep, he kicks it to around the 20 and then with a return the other team starts around their 40+ yard line. This gives them good field position right off the bat, if you doubt me watch this year on his KO and mentally note what yard line the other team catches the ball at.
Quote from: Horseman on March 07, 2023, 02:49:38 PM
Leggs kickoff are not deep, he kicks it to around the 20 and then with a return the other team starts around their 40+ yard line. This gives them good field position right off the bat, if you doubt me watch this year on his KO and mentally note what yard line the other team catches the ball at.
I mean, he kicked a 55-yard field goal last year so it's not like leg strength is a huge issue. His kickoffs are shorter than some but this is a league where you can start on the 40 yard line anyway half the time. Leg strength is certainly not the main concern, I don't think. Net punting/kicking are more important than how far the ball travels in the air.
Quote from: Horseman on March 07, 2023, 02:49:38 PM
Leggs kickoff are not deep, he kicks it to around the 20 and then with a return the other team starts around their 40+ yard line. This gives them good field position right off the bat, if you doubt me watch this year on his KO and mentally note what yard line the other team catches the ball at.
Dead middle average in the league, 5th in KO avg yards at 63.9. 4th if you remove Vedvick who had 20 KO's. Same in punting, dead centre, 5th. Not the best, not the worst.
Not sure what the "net" averages are, CFL.CA does not list those, maybe Statsjunkie has a source for that info.
MOS is a ST genius, and he doesn't care about statistics. He wants guys that can execute his gameplan, and if Leggs wasn't doing that. he'd have been replaced.
I think Leggs made a dramatic improvement in his sophomore year, and will continue his improvement.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on March 07, 2023, 03:00:23 PM
I mean, he kicked a 55-yard field goal last year so it's not like leg strength is a huge issue. His kickoffs are shorter than some but this is a league where you can start on the 40 yard line anyway half the time. Leg strength is certainly not the main concern, I don't think. Net punting/kicking are more important than how far the ball travels in the air.
One long FG means nothing, he could have had a 30 km breeze at this back, which I suspect he did as that was the only +50 yd. FG he made.
I don't really care about kick off length, and his net punting results are strong.
The question is about place kicking. I don't care so much about 55 yd field goals. I want a guy who is highly accurate at up to 40-42 yards, and at least has a chance up to 50. You can work within those parameters. Which is why the converts are so concerning, they seem to indicate an occasional lack of focus.
Quote from: the paw on March 07, 2023, 05:56:58 PM
I don't really care about kick off length, and his net punting results are strong.
The question is about place kicking. I don't care so much about 55 yd field goals. I want a guy who is highly accurate at up to 40-42 yards, and at least has a chance up to 50. You can work within those parameters. Which is why the converts are so concerning, they seem to indicate an occasional lack of focus.
This is the angle I agree with.
Leggs has got the strength just need time to pull it all together which will be a combo of his physical and mental prep
He will be ok this year is my bet, not great not perfect but pretty darn good. I also predict plenty of over criticism and panic if he misses a few, especially early.
Leggs seems to have an off game every once in a while. 16 of 20 games last year, he was perfect.
Week 5 3-5
Week 10 1-3
Week 19 1-4
Week 21 1-2
81.8% FG kicking.
Missed 8 of 67 PA attempts.
88.1% PA attempts.
Will he get better year 3? All indications point to yes...
Quote from: theaardvark on March 09, 2023, 03:30:28 PM
Leggs seems to have an off game every once in a while. 16 of 20 games last year, he was perfect.
Week 5 3-5
Week 10 1-3
Week 19 1-4
Week 21 1-2
81.8% FG kicking.
Missed 8 of 67 PA attempts.
88.1% PA attempts.
Will he get better year 3? All indications point to yes...
"Perfect" as in both FGs and converts?
Quote from: blue_or_die on March 09, 2023, 06:28:37 PM
"Perfect" as in both FGs and converts?
Nope. He had 11 (out of 20) games where he was 100% on field goals and extra points.
If you break out the two playoff games separately, he was:
4 for 6 FGs
3 for 6 PAT
His punting average in the Grey Cup was the lowest in all games played in 2022 at 39.1
Seriously, just go for 2 on PATs all season long. Just abandon the Leggs PAT. If he's missing about half, then the math should be in our favor. I bet we can get to 60% on 2pt PATs if we really work on it.
Let Leggs concentrate on the "money" 40-55 yd FGs. If we are at the 20-25 YL on O, just gamble on 3rd down. Clearly that's Legg's danger zone.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 09, 2023, 07:40:32 PM
Seriously, just go for 2 on PATs all season long. Just abandon the Leggs PAT. If he's missing about half, then the math should be in our favor. I bet we can get to 60% on 2pt PATs if we really work on it.
Let Leggs concentrate on the "money" 40-55 yd FGs. If we are at the 20-25 YL on O, just gamble on 3rd down. Clearly that's Legg's danger zone.
He missed 5 of 56 PAT's. Let's stick to the facts and not go into lemming mode.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 09, 2023, 07:40:32 PM
Seriously, just go for 2 on PATs all season long. Just abandon the Leggs PAT. If he's missing about half, then the math should be in our favor. I bet we can get to 60% on 2pt PATs if we really work on it.
Let Leggs concentrate on the "money" 40-55 yd FGs. If we are at the 20-25 YL on O, just gamble on 3rd down. Clearly that's Legg's danger zone.
Go for 2 all the time hard pass
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on March 09, 2023, 07:20:21 PM
Nope. He had 11 (out of 20) games where he was 100% on field goals and extra points.
If you break out the two playoff games separately, he was:
4 for 6 FGs
3 for 6 PAT
His punting average in the Grey Cup was the lowest in all games played in 2022 at 39.1
thats the legs i remember!! When its playoff time, its time to perform. 67% on FG and 50% on PAT and a 39 yd punt average....that's just plain gross!!
Just as an aside.
Touch football has the option on converts
I point from the five
2 points from the ten.
Think about it. A de cent team should score on the majority.
With our offense I would live to see us go for two pts
Quote from: DM83 on March 12, 2023, 02:53:46 AM
Just as an aside.
Touch football has the option on converts
I point from the five
2 points from the ten.
Think about it. A de cent team should score on the majority.
With our offense I would live to see us go for two pts
It's proven that going for one is a high percentage play, while going for 2 is an option at times, because it's generally a lower percentage option won't see us or majority of teams trying it as much as some would like.
When on occasion going to 2 makes sense because of the point differential, yup go. Otherwise pass.
Additionally I like teams going to 2 on occasion to practice the plays live or try something new.
Wow, the free agent market turned stone cold dead so quickly, has to be concerning for those left without contracts knowing they are one step away from the end of their football careers. At this point any offer from one of the new leagues might buy them a year or two extension, but I doubt they ever show up in the CFL again.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 12, 2023, 03:08:26 PM
Wow, the free agent market turned stone cold dead so quickly, has to be concerning for those left without contracts knowing they are one step away from the end of their football careers. At this point any offer from one of the new leagues might buy them a year or two extension, but I doubt they ever show up in the CFL again.
There are about 48 free agents left. Many are long time veterans on the downside of their careers. Free agency is a bit of a 1st come 1st served market place as SMS is spent. As mentioned it may push some of these players towards the USFL or XFL. Others could be taking big pay cuts and role reduction to re-sign in the CFL as TC approaches. Several may be moving past their careers in football.
On one hand it's sad to see some very good players come to the end but rosters are transitional. Good luck going forward for these players that put it on the line.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 12, 2023, 03:08:26 PM
Wow, the free agent market turned stone cold dead so quickly, has to be concerning for those left without contracts knowing they are one step away from the end of their football careers. At this point any offer from one of the new leagues might buy them a year or two extension, but I doubt they ever show up in the CFL again.
I think the "legal tampering" window has made actual free agency much more efficient. Teams go into free agency basically known which big free agents are leaving and which top ones they have attracted. Then the dominoes fall pretty quickly as teams move to various positional Plan B's. A few hard cases hold out to see if they can get their number, but by then the market has re-set and it's time for a chat with Mr. Reality. I don't blame veterans who set a number and won't play for less, I think everyone has their own sense of what makes it worthwhile. Nothing wrong with walking away when you feel the time is right.
Quote from: pjrocksmb on March 12, 2023, 03:52:18 AM
It's proven that going for one is a high percentage play, while going for 2 is an option at times, because it's generally a lower percentage option won't see us or majority of teams trying it as much as some would like.
I can't remember what year it was (probably 4-5 ago) that (I think) DT (who was on TSN doing those animations) ran the numbers and said the numbers proved teams should always go for 2. Around the same time CGY and HAM started going for 2 a whack ton. The insiders may have talked about it as well, and the booth guys.
It was kind of the buzz for a couple of weeks that year.
If "CFL wide" (i.e. all averages) show going for 2 can make sense, then imagine how those numbers calc out when your kicker misses PATs like I miss the bullseye at darts. Add in the fact that your O is one of the best in the CFL (especially in red zone) and... should be a no-brainer for our team!!
And CGY was doing it with rarely-misses-PAT Parades!!
Quote from: the paw on March 12, 2023, 05:30:50 PM
I think the "legal tampering" window has made actual free agency much more efficient. Teams go into free agency basically known which big free agents are leaving and which top ones they have attracted. Then the dominoes fall pretty quickly as teams move to various positional Plan B's. A few hard cases hold out to see if they can get their number, but by then the market has re-set and it's time for a chat with Mr. Reality. I don't blame veterans who set a number and won't play for less, I think everyone has their own sense of what makes it worthwhile. Nothing wrong with walking away when you feel the time is right.
I agree completely. If something isn't worth the time and health investment in your mind then walking away is not a bad option. A few years ago, I did the same with one of my small businesses. Profitable, and efficient it just didn't generate the money I felt I needed to make in order to justify the time investment. I handed it over to a young man I was employing and he got his start in business and I walked away. Sometimes, you have to place a value on time and quality of life over money and I absolutely don't blame any football player who puts a minimum price tag on that.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 13, 2023, 05:48:42 AM
I can't remember what year it was (probably 4-5 ago) that (I think) DT (who was on TSN doing those animations) ran the numbers and said the numbers proved teams should always go for 2. Around the same time CGY and HAM started going for 2 a whack ton. The insiders may have talked about it as well, and the booth guys.
It was kind of the buzz for a couple of weeks that year.
If "CFL wide" (i.e. all averages) show going for 2 can make sense, then imagine how those numbers calc out when your kicker misses PATs like I miss the bullseye at darts. Add in the fact that your O is one of the best in the CFL (especially in red zone) and... should be a no-brainer for our team!!
And CGY was doing it with rarely-misses-PAT Parades!!
Going for 2 is a risk/reward scenario that statistically has seemed worth doing. The key concern that I can see is, missing a convert, whether a 1 or 2 point try, means changing the dynamic of the score. By pacing along at 7 pet TD, you keep the score need to catch up more consistent.
That said, until the 4th quarter, it should be 100% about scoring the absolute most points possible, and if you hit on 50% of 2 pt conversions, that is equal to the best you can do kicking. If you can squeak that to 60%, you are in plus territory, and if it falls to 40%, that's equal to 80% PAT conversion.
But I can see that taking away a PAT responsibility from a K might go against MOS's philosophy. Kinda undercuts your confidence. Unless they have a 2pt conversion specialist group on the team that converts well over 50% and he can tell his K that it is in the teams best interest to go for the most points on average, sticking with the slightly less productive overall, but more consistently productive single, whilst getting your K more live game reps to keep his foot in the game makes sense.
Quote from: theaardvark on March 13, 2023, 02:32:45 PM
But I can see that taking away a PAT responsibility from a K might go against MOS's philosophy. Kinda undercuts your confidence.
We've seen MOS's philosophy change over the years as the reality of his roster changed.
When Meddy was here, his philosophy was just get within 50 yards so we could go for the 7 to 57 yard FG attempt. Because Money would get us those 3 most of the time. Clearly that is no longer the philosophy since Meddy left.
Our K is worse, and our O is better than the years we had Meddy. Either Leggs starts kicking 99% of PAT, or we must examine the option of being a goes-for-2 team.
The only downside I can see to 2PAT is you give away a lot of your redzone playbook to get 2 vs saving them to get 6. So you need a massive redzone playbook so teams can't just defend your 3-5 go-to plays.
Because I have faith Leggs will improve, I'm not saying we should do this. I'm just saying that all you Leggs-bashers touting his crap PAT % then need to realize that a 2PAT philosophy might make sense. I wouldn't be upset if in week 1 we see this change. And more 3rd down gambling on the good side of C.