WHITTLING DOWN THE LIST
The signing of Stanley Bryant this week strikes another name from the club's list of pending free agents. Here's a look at who remains unsigned heading into the market, which opens on February 14th:
*Indicates: Canadian
OFFENCE
Quarterbacks
Dakota Prukop
Running backs/Fullbacks
Mike Miller*
Receivers
Rasheed Bailey; Nic Demski*; Greg Ellingson; Janarion Grant[/s]
Offensive line
C Michael Couture*; RT Jermarcus Hardrick
DEFENCE
Defensive line
Jackson Jeffcoat; Casey Sayles; Keion Adams
Linebackers
Jesse Briggs*; Shayne Gauthier*; Les Maruo (Global)
Defensive backs
Alden Darby, Jr.; Nick Taylor; Mercy Maston
Specialists
KR Janarion Grant
https://www.bluebombers.com/2023/01/06/i-cant-think-of-being-anywhere-else-now/?fbclid=IwAR0ogQi-SHpkdX4VSmdtIwt4bgGZJM5Bwdp51vD3Y_l65yt6vTaLNlehkPY
The list has some key names that need to re-signed. I count 8 very important that I expect back. IMO 9 on the list may not be back due to a combination of injury history, age or SMS issue.
Several of those I would like back but you can't keep everybody and there is a roster transition every off season.
Yes please to, Prukop, Miller, Bailey, Demski, Grant, Hardrick, Guathier, Jeffcoat, Darby, and Sayles.
Love to have Courture back. But can we afford him.
Quote from: Pigskin on January 09, 2023, 05:26:42 PM
Yes please to, Prukop, Miller, Bailey, Demski, Grant, Hardrick, Guathier, Jeffcoat, Darby, and Sayles.
Love to have Courture back. But can we afford him.
You seem to be on the same track as me. I'd like Prukop and Miller back but could see changes there as possible. Couture will be an SMS issue / question. The SMS wallet has less and less available as money is spent either before or during the 1st few days of free agency.
Demski and Bailey will be getting more. The others more but not as potentially as large an increase.
How much will be left after that?
Quote from: Blue In BC on January 09, 2023, 05:20:21 PM
The list has some key names that need to re-signed. I count 8 very important that I expect back. IMO 9 on the list may not be back due to a combination of injury history, age or SMS issue.
Several of those I would like back but you can't keep everybody and there is a roster transition every off season.
I think Demski, Sayles and Hardrick are the only "must haves".
Jeffcoat, Bailey, Prukop and Grant would be good to have, and would be a bit of a hit to lose, but could be weathered.
Quote from: the paw on January 09, 2023, 06:11:24 PM
I think Demski, Sayles and Hardrick are the only "must haves".
Jeffcoat, Bailey, Prukop and Grant would be good to have, and would be a bit of a hit to lose, but could be weathered.
We had a hard enough time in 2022 with depth along the DL. Jeffcoat is among the critical needs. If we lose Schoen, then losing Bailey and Ellingson becomes an open problem at receiver.
The times that Grant missed games we struggled with field position and consistency. I think you may be under valuing his contribution.
Quote from: Blue In BC on January 09, 2023, 05:35:27 PM
You seem to be on the same track as me. I'd like Prukop and Miller back but could see changes there as possible. Couture will be an SMS issue / question. The SMS wallet has less and less available as money is spent either before or during the 1st few days of free agency.
Demski and Bailey will be getting more. The others more but not as potentially as large an increase.
How much will be left after that?
Demski and Bailey had pretty similar season stats. even though Nic missed 5 games. When it comes down to dollars Bailey is potentially replaceable, Demski is not.
I do not like the hold up on Demski. He is an absolute must.
I have no worries that Demski will sign here before FA, Bailey, I'm not so sure as his message seems very cryptic or maybe just a bargaining ploy. I like Prukop and would like to see him back, Jeffcoat is 32 years old and he has been injured the last 2 years, somewhat risky. I might be inclined to use his money on giving raises to Demski and Bailey. Grant should be relatively inexpensive and Miller should sign a 1 year deal.
Almost all those names are good players and would be missed
Gotta keep pushing to get them back
Team culture will benefit
I put priority on OL, DL and receiver
Quote from: Horseman on January 09, 2023, 10:11:01 PM
I have no worries that Demski will sign here before FA, Bailey, I'm not so sure as his message seems very cryptic or maybe just a bargaining ploy. I like Prukop and would like to see him back, Jeffcoat is 32 years old and he has been injured the last 2 years, somewhat risky. I might be inclined to use his money on giving raises to Demski and Bailey. Grant should be relatively inexpensive and Miller should sign a 1 year deal.
Grant is a top returner in the league and may not be as inexpensive as you think. I'm worried about Jefferson being injury prone as well but we've had a lot of trouble finding quality defensive ends. I wouldnt forget about sayles either as his numbers were decent
Quote from: Pete on January 10, 2023, 02:37:51 AM
Grant is a top returner in the league and may not be as inexpensive as you think. I'm worried about Jefferson being injury prone as well but we've had a lot of trouble finding quality defensive ends. I wouldnt forget about sayles either as his numbers were decent
Grant scored touchdowns in the WF and GC! He is a legitimate threat on special teams and it would be foolhardy to believe we can get by without him without losing some of the X-Factor he brings to every game
Quote from: Blue In BC on January 09, 2023, 07:57:46 PM
We had a hard enough time in 2022 with depth along the DL. Jeffcoat is among the critical needs. If we lose Schoen, then losing Bailey and Ellingson becomes an open problem at receiver.
The times that Grant missed games we struggled with field position and consistency. I think you may be under valuing his contribution.
I take your point, but philosophically I am of the school that a priority list that contains almost all the free agents isn't really prioritization. Of those 4 I listed as wants, I doubt we lose all of them, if we did it would be a bit of a challenge no doubt.
I love watching Grant, but the team can still function with a decent returner.
Watching the number of NFL workouts, I am thinking we are more likely to lose Ford than Schoen. But we won't know until we know I guess.
Quote from: the paw on January 10, 2023, 11:44:21 AM
I take your point, but philosophically I am of the school that a priority list that contains almost all the free agents isn't really prioritization. Of those 4 I listed as wants, I doubt we lose all of them, if we did it would be a bit of a challenge no doubt.
I love watching Grant, but the team can still function with a decent returner.
Thanks for your opinion on Ford and Scheon.
I agree with your take here.
Watching the number of NFL workouts, I am thinking we are more likely to lose Ford than Schoen. But we won't know until we know I guess.
I want Grant back but returners are easier to find than starters on DL and OL. They can also be developed. That said a player at Grant's level takes a couple years experience minimum to match.
Quote from: the paw on January 10, 2023, 11:44:21 AM
I take your point, but philosophically I am of the school that a priority list that contains almost all the free agents isn't really prioritization. Of those 4 I listed as wants, I doubt we lose all of them, if we did it would be a bit of a challenge no doubt.
I love watching Grant, but the team can still function with a decent returner.
Watching the number of NFL workouts, I am thinking we are more likely to lose Ford than Schoen. But we won't know until we know I guess.
I was only considering 8 as priorities with a number or reasons behind that thought.
In regard to considering Bailey as one of them is due to several years of struggling finding good receivers. Due to injuries in 2021 and 2022 we had Nelson, McKnight and McCrae as options. It wasn't until we found Lawler and Bailey we turned the corner and then found Schoen for 2022.
Potentially we may lose 3 of our import starting receivers. OTOH we may only lose 1 or 2 but that's still a big hit. Lots of time to see what happens yet and what happens in free agency including getting Lawler back ( probably not ) but it's possible.
Jeffcoat made Jefferson more effective and our DL overall. As I pointed out we went through a few PR players in replacement with little success.
SMS will obviously come into play for both those two players and IDK how that will unfold.
Quote from: pjrocksmb on January 10, 2023, 01:17:14 PM
I want Grant back but returners are easier to find than starters on DL and OL. They can also be developed. That said a player at Grant's level takes a couple years experience minimum to match.
I would rather bring back Grant over Couture if that's the debate.
Right now we are pretty stacked at OL with a bunch of guys waiting for their shot. We could lose Couture since we played well without him for most of the year.
Grant had the most return TD's in 2022 by a wide margin if you count the playoffs. He makes a bigger impact on our team than Couture in my opinion.
Quote from: LXTSN on January 10, 2023, 04:23:30 PM
I would rather bring back Grant over Couture if that's the debate.
Right now we are pretty stacked at OL with a bunch of guys waiting for their shot. We could lose Couture since we played well without him for most of the year.
Grant had the most return TD's in 2022 by a wide margin if you count the playoffs. He makes a bigger impact on our team than Couture in my opinion.
The catch is that Couture is the starter at center when he's healthy. Kolankowski played well and Couture is going to be a large SMS hit. On the positive side he's Canadian and those are always difficult to lose. Hard to dispute that center is not the more critical position though since he touches the ball on every offensive snap.
Grant is a top returner and his SMS hit is not going to be excessive IMO.
Realistically I expect to lose Couture regardless of what happens with Grant, but I'd be happy to see him back as well.
What kind of money will Grant require?
Quote from: pjrocksmb on January 11, 2023, 12:59:49 AM
What kind of money will Grant require?
I'm not sure. However, IMO returners don't command top CFL dollars unless they are also a player that can contribute more on offence or defence. IE: A receiver, RB or DB for example. Essentially Grant is seldom used on offence and is a specialist that is very good.
Just a guess but I'd think he might be a $100K player, maximum. Keep in mind we have starters including many Canadians making less than $100K. I don't see a bidding war within the CFL.
Quote from: the paw on January 10, 2023, 11:44:21 AM
I take your point, but philosophically I am of the school that a priority list that contains almost all the free agents isn't really prioritization. Of those 4 I listed as wants, I doubt we lose all of them, if we did it would be a bit of a challenge no doubt.
I love watching Grant, but the team can still function with a decent returner.
Watching the number of NFL workouts, I am thinking we are more likely to lose Ford than Schoen. But we won't know until we know I guess.
we may be losing both....Ford signed with Green Bay
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on January 11, 2023, 04:04:23 AM
we may be losing both....Ford signed with Green Bay
That would be extremely disappointing if he was able to stick around. Didn't even get an all star season out of the kid before he was able to take off. At least with Strevy, Alford,and Schoen, we got to see them at their best.
Gotta love this teams recruiting ability, though.
How many are actually signed but waiting on a slow press day ?
Quote from: Jesse on January 11, 2023, 11:54:10 AM
That would be extremely disappointing if he was able to stick around. Didn't even get an all star season out of the kid before he was able to take off. At least with Strevy, Alford,and Schoen, we got to see them at their best.
Gotta love this teams recruiting ability, though.
Our scout team has really found some exciting players in these past few years!
I wonder where we are at with Drew Desjarlais? He would be a huge upgrade at left guard in my opinion. We are still in good shape at OL so I'm sure we would be outbid, but he is one of the best in the league at what he does also!
Quote from: Blue In BC on January 10, 2023, 05:11:19 PM
The catch is that Couture is the starter at center when he's healthy. Kolankowski played well and Couture is going to be a large SMS hit. On the positive side he's Canadian and those are always difficult to lose. Hard to dispute that center is not the more critical position though since he touches the ball on every offensive snap.
Grant is a top returner and his SMS hit is not going to be excessive IMO.
Realistically I expect to lose Couture regardless of what happens with Grant, but I'd be happy to see him back as well.
Yep. I would agree that center is the more important position. He's involved in every offensive play and it's hard to find quality Canadians at OL.
However, I do recall Grant being injured for a little this year and some members of this forum getting pretty upset about not having a quality return game...
Quote from: LXTSN on January 11, 2023, 01:27:25 PM
Yep. I would agree that center is the more important position. He's involved in every offensive play and it's hard to find quality Canadians at OL.
However, I do recall Grant being injured for a little this year and some members of this forum getting pretty upset about not having a quality return game...
Grant gives us the X factor and come play off time it's crucial...,,last year was no exception and he scored in both playoff games. He also helps give us critical field position which we do miss when he's out of the lineup, Tough call on choosing between Grant and Couture as both are critical positions and are both elite.
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on January 11, 2023, 02:22:45 PM
Grant gives us the X factor and come play off time it's crucial...,,last year was no exception and he scored in both playoff games. He also helps give us critical field position which we do miss when he's out of the lineup, Tough call on choosing between Grant and Couture as both are critical positions and are both elite.
I expect Grant to be back. He's solid and he's been here for a number of seasons.
Quote from: Jesse on January 11, 2023, 11:54:10 AM
That would be extremely disappointing if he was able to stick around. Didn't even get an all star season out of the kid before he was able to take off. At least with Strevy, Alford,and Schoen, we got to see them at their best.
Gotta love this teams recruiting ability, though.
According to Walters Green Bay signed Ford based on outstanding combine numbers he put up at a camp in Buffalo two years ago, they hadn't even watched film of him and assumed he played a fair amount for the Bombers last season. This signing is based totally on trying to mold measurables into a football player, Ford was off their radar prior to posting those numbers, they had not even heard of him before as he played U Sports in Waterloo.
Ford looked great in the game(s?) he started. I think it was 1 game, but mabye it was 2-3? When Taylor got Nicked? ;)
Anyhow, Ford was stout and even though they tested him as the weak link, he held his own like a vet. I was quite impressed and I think we all expected to see him play more.
I think if you watched the Ford film you'd be happy, but perhaps worried there wasn't much of it.
Wild that the second drafted Ford got the first NFL sniff... did either of the Philpot twins get any tryouts?
Quote from: theaardvark on January 13, 2023, 05:25:53 PM
Wild that the second drafted Ford got the first NFL sniff... did either of the Philpot twins get any tryouts?
Good question. The less-injured Philpot certainly showed some great flashes, and over far more games than Ford.
Quote from: theaardvark on January 13, 2023, 05:25:53 PM
Wild that the second drafted Ford got the first NFL sniff... did either of the Philpot twins get any tryouts?
Not really. The NFL puts very little (zero) stock in where CFL teams draft players. NFL teams just look at his testing numbers (which were crazy good), age, height and weight and decided he was worth a look.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 14, 2023, 01:30:52 AM
Good question. The less-injured Philpot certainly showed some great flashes, and over far more games than Ford.
The Philpots did not put down the numbers Ford did in testing, NFL interest is based solely on his measurables, not on CFL game play.
The combine numbers that Ford put up were in a Buffalo camp... did his brother, or any other NATs participate in those kinds of camps?
Quote from: theaardvark on January 15, 2023, 03:49:25 PM
The combine numbers that Ford put up were in a Buffalo camp... did his brother, or any other NATs participate in those kinds of camps?
They attended the U of Buffalo pro day. 6 players were from U of Buffalo, and another 8 were from Buffalo area colleges. There were 4 Ontario USport players invited: the two Fords, Federico from Queens, and Deionte Knight from Western.
I think the Canadian invites are from geographically close campuses and done as a courtesy to pro scouts, to make their time more efficient. When you have a blue chipper like Duvernay-Tardif, he has the pull to hold a one man pro day.
There are rumours - repeat rumours - out there that suggest Demski is close to re-upping.
2. Word is there are more free-agent signings in the hopper for the Blue Bombers, but as it currently stands the club still has 16 pending free agents.
https://www.bluebombers.com/?p=465170
Another announcement would be nice. Doesn't seem to be a whole lot of players getting new deals quickly across the CFL. IIRC the potential free agent list was about 250 and of those 50 have been dealt with one way or another.
The list is smaller than last year. I'd expect perhaps 50 of those players to change teams or retire. So there is work to be done by each team. We're in a decent position but have something like 8 starters undecided. Need to sort that out before free agency hits. The team probably knows where they stand on each player.
Demski would fit into a lot of receiving corps down south. He's just a good football player.
Shoen would be a third down specialist, just not sure he would be as elusive on the smaller field.
Four players have been signed off the list from Jan 9th. Only a few must haves remaining:
Quarterback
Dakota Prukop (A)
Running back
None
Fullback
None
Receiver
Rasheed Bailey (A)
Nic Demski (N)
Greg Ellingson (A)
Janarion Grant (A)
Offensive line
Michael Couture (N)
Defensive line
Keion Adams (A)
Casey Sayles (A)
Linebacker
Jesse Briggs (N)
Les Maruo (G)
Defensive back
Alden Darby (A)
Mercy Maston (A)
Nick Taylor (A)
Kicker
None
Long snapper
None
Quote from: gobombersgo on January 26, 2023, 01:43:21 AM
Four players have been signed off the list from Jan 9th. Only a few must haves remaining:
Quarterback
Dakota Prukop (A)
Running back
None
Fullback
None
Receiver
Rasheed Bailey (A)
Nic Demski (N)
Greg Ellingson (A)
Janarion Grant (A)
Offensive line
Michael Couture (N)
Defensive line
Keion Adams (A)
Casey Sayles (A)
Linebacker
Jesse Briggs (N)
Les Maruo (G)
Defensive back
Alden Darby (A)
Mercy Maston (A)
Nick Taylor (A)
Kicker
None
Long snapper
None
Of the players remaining to be signed I would say Prukop, Demski and Grant are the biggest priorities. There are others I would like to see signed but may not be room include Bailey, Taylor and Sayles. I have a feeling the Bombers are going to let Couture walk. Matson and Taylor are coming off serious injuries and the Bombers may move on both of them. I don't see Ellingson returning.
Really want those receivers and Darby back.
Seems like Bailey and Darby are going to walk though.
Quote from: bwiser on January 26, 2023, 02:38:16 PM
Matson and Taylor are coming off serious injuries and the Bombers may move on both of them. I don't see Ellingson returning.
Our D was far weaker without Taylor. It's his first big injury and I would think we give him another chance, even though he is getting older. Maston is one of my faves, but he's had 2 big injuries in 2 years, getting older too, and we seem to be much better at finding SAM talent, so we might move on. It seems unfair to Maston, but we might not have much choice. Maybe we let him come to TC, and who knows...
Maston was the best of our very recent SAMs though. In the last 10 years at SAM I'd put #1 Moe Leggett, and #2 Maston, #3 Darby. Could Maston play another DB position?
Never forget, Taylor and Maston's arrival in 2019 was pivotal in pushing us over the edge into champion caliber. We owe both a lot.
Darby, would be another very nice signing for the Bombers. He is so versatile. And another player that can stay healthy.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 27, 2023, 04:32:20 AM
Our D was far weaker without Taylor. It's his first big injury and I would think we give him another chance, even though he is getting older. Maston is one of my faves, but he's had 2 big injuries in 2 years, getting older too, and we seem to be much better at finding SAM talent, so we might move on. It seems unfair to Maston, but we might not have much choice. Maybe we let him come to TC, and who knows...
Maston was the best of our very recent SAMs though. In the last 10 years at SAM I'd put #1 Moe Leggett, and #2 Maston, #3 Darby. Could Maston play another DB position?
Never forget, Taylor and Maston's arrival in 2019 was pivotal in pushing us over the edge into champion caliber. We owe both a lot.
You guys looked good no matter who played SLB. Good to see Kramdi get a start. Was great to see rookie SLBs like Dalke and Makonzo get starts for their teams.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 27, 2023, 04:32:20 AM
Our D was far weaker without Taylor. It's his first big injury and I would think we give him another chance, even though he is getting older. Maston is one of my faves, but he's had 2 big injuries in 2 years, getting older too, and we seem to be much better at finding SAM talent, so we might move on. It seems unfair to Maston, but we might not have much choice. Maybe we let him come to TC, and who knows...
Maston was the best of our very recent SAMs though. In the last 10 years at SAM I'd put #1 Moe Leggett, and #2 Maston, #3 Darby. Could Maston play another DB position?
Never forget, Taylor and Maston's arrival in 2019 was pivotal in pushing us over the edge into champion caliber. We owe both a lot.
I really like Taylor but he turns 35 in March. If his injury was an achilles he may not even be ready to participate by TC. I would rule him out but both those issues suggest he isn't re-signed. Lawrence, Parker and Holm are all expected back.
Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on January 27, 2023, 03:35:26 PM
You guys looked good no matter who played SLB. Good to see Kramdi get a start. Was great to see rookie SLBs like Dalke and Makonzo get starts for their teams.
You guys? Are you another team's fan? If so, welcome! Always good to hear opinions from across Canada. If you're a true bluer, then my apologies: welcome nonetheless :D
Yes, Kramdi looked pretty good. Almost never see NAT at SAM. We have very good NAT LBer depth.
Quote from: Blue In BC on January 27, 2023, 05:22:42 PM
I really like Taylor but he turns 35 in March. If his injury was an achilles he may not even be ready to participate by TC. I would rule him out but both those issues suggest he isn't re-signed. Lawrence, Parker and Holm are all expected back.
And Houston? I'd think (and hope) Houston was placed above the other 3. I sure hope Taylor is ready by TC if we are giving him another shot. But you're right: his injury was mid/late season. Darn, that sucks. But we usually don't "can" players who are still mid-injury...
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 28, 2023, 04:22:09 AM
You guys? Are you another team's fan? If so, welcome! Always good to hear opinions from across Canada. If you're a true bluer, then my apologies: welcome nonetheless :D
Yes, Kramdi looked pretty good. Almost never see NAT at SAM. We have very good NAT LBer depth.
And Houston? I'd think (and hope) Houston was placed above the other 3. I sure hope Taylor is ready by TC if we are giving him another shot. But you're right: his injury was mid/late season. Darn, that sucks. But we usually don't "can" players who are still mid-injury...
I expect Houston to be the starter at CB but it could become a TC battle against Lawrence. Generally expecting Parker to retain his spot inside at DHB. All of our DB's seem to be capable of playing multiple positions.
So clarity on ultimate decisions may evolve around recoveries from injuries in 2022 and any new nicks in TC. There are SMS issues as well so it's not entirely clear what they can do as opposed to want to do.
Injury, age, SMS and succession planning with the rookies from 2022. Last couple of seasons we've added some good talent and maybe we find the next Alford or Nichols that win a starting role coming out of TC?
I could be surprised that Taylor is both able to return by TC and wants to return. OTOH I think the Bombers have made one of those tough decisions to move on. Who decided what 1st IDK.
OK the clock is officially kicking on a couple of his key key element still out there especially Demski, Darby and Schoen!
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on February 01, 2023, 10:21:20 PM
OK the clock is officially kicking on a couple of his key key element still out there especially Demski, Darby and Schoen!
Schoen is already signed for 2023. Demski, Bailey, Darby, would be nice ASAP.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 01, 2023, 10:40:11 PM
Schoen is already signed for 2023. Demski, Bailey, Darby, would be nice ASAP.
After Demski, my next highest priority would be Casey Sayles.
Quote from: the paw on February 01, 2023, 11:33:05 PM
After Demski, my next highest priority would be Casey Sayles.
Sayles is important as you mentioned. OTOH replacing a DT might be easier than replacing a receiver like Bailey or a returner like Grant.
Either way the ranking isn't as important as getting most of these players to re-sign.
At the moment their are potential quality replacements for most positions but it's an SMS question as well if they reach free agency. I wouldn't mind getting Richardson back if he lowers his SMS hit.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 02, 2023, 12:13:30 AM
Sayles is important as you mentioned. OTOH replacing a DT might be easier than replacing a receiver like Bailey or a returner like Grant.
Either way the ranking isn't as important as getting most of these players to re-sign.
At the moment their are potential quality replacements for most positions but it's an SMS question as well if they reach free agency. I wouldn't mind getting Richardson back if he lowers his SMS hit.
Richardson is not an FA per CFL.ca FA list page.
I like Pete Robinson.
Quote from: the paw on February 01, 2023, 11:33:05 PM
After Demski, my next highest priority would be Casey Sayles.
Yes, Sayles had another very good year.
C'mon Walters sign Demski already!
Have to think the Demski re-signing is waiting for the perfect PR moment. He's our premiere signing. Hometown boy superstar.
I'm expecting a 3 year rich deal and a big press event to follow.
Quote from: blue_or_die on February 02, 2023, 12:44:11 PM
Have to think the Demski re-signing is waiting for the perfect PR moment. He's our premiere signing. Hometown boy superstar.
I'm expecting a 3 year rich deal and a big press event to follow.
when is the perfect PR moment? It is minus 30 outside.
Quote from: blue_or_die on February 02, 2023, 12:44:11 PM
Have to think the Demski re-signing is waiting for the perfect PR moment. He's our premiere signing. Hometown boy superstar.
I'm expecting a 3 year rich deal and a big press event to follow.
I'm not worried. But I'd like it announced sooner rather than later.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on February 02, 2023, 01:20:29 PM
when is the perfect PR moment? It is minus 30 outside.
Entirely possible he went on vacation and we'll do it once he's back.
I'm starting to get worried about losing Demski.
Demski will explore options in the tampering period, and Walters will roll out the chequebook between the tampering window and the FA start...
Or Demski signs somewhere for for more than the $225k a season Walters can pay...
Third option, Demski's as is outside Walters budget, and Collaros renegotiates his deal to add the $20k needed to sign Demski, knowing that it makes the $34k GC bonus a lot more likely...
We didn't miss the loss of Lawler all that much, I'm not saying we won't miss Demski, but Oleary Orange looked pretty good last year in that role... and we still have Wolitarski...
Is paying over 200k for a guy who gets 5-7 touches a game ( approx 70yds) a good investment? Hes also not in the top 50 recievers for yards per catch. I get that he brings an added dimension to the offence with his ablity tp run but in saying that in the western final and grey cup his running yards was less than 10 total. I cant see us going higher than 195k unless there is are bonuses for yards gained
I'd rather have Kurleigh Gittens Jr. If we get into 200k plus.
Crickets.
It was hard for me to accept losing Harris last year. It was harder to accept when Harris won his 3rd consecutive ring with Toronto.
It will be more harder if we lose Demski in free-agency. That could spell the split of Canadian Mafia.
Quote from: Pete on February 02, 2023, 05:38:35 PM
Is paying over 200k for a guy who gets 5-7 touches a game ( approx 70yds) a good investment? Hes also not in the top 50 recievers for yards per catch. I get that he brings an added dimension to the offence with his ablity tp run but in saying that in the western final and grey cup his running yards was less than 10 total. I cant see us going higher than 195k unless there is are bonuses for yards gained
Demski probably isn't the best pure receiver available this off-season as far as route running, but he is the most versatile, explosive and dynamic athletic playmaker available, and most importantly he fits the Bomber offence to a Tee.
ND10 had a very good year considering he missed 5 games. 772 yards receiving, another 151 yard rushing which is a 7.6 yard avg. But I can't see the bombers going over $225K.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 02, 2023, 07:35:13 PM
ND10 had a very good year considering he missed 5 games. 772 yards receiving, another 151 yard rushing which is a 7.6 yard avg. But I can't see the bombers going over $225K.
His most productive season by a considerable margin. I hope he re-ups with the Bombers at a reasonable price.
An OG just signed a 250k+ contract.
Adjust expectations.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 02, 2023, 07:35:13 PM
ND10 had a very good year considering he missed 5 games. 772 yards receiving, another 151 yard rushing which is a 7.6 yard avg. But I can't see the bombers going over $225K.
The issue is never what the Bombers are willing to pay, but rather what someone else is...
What it will take to keep him will be decided by how much Pinball (you can bet Harris is singing ND10's praises) is willing to spend, or HAM... or even SSK..
He is a ratio breaker and a dependable receiver with big play potential. He makes defensive co-ordinators have to scheme different when he is on the field.
I have no doubt he wants to stay here, and would give a home down discount to stay, but if another GM goes nuts wanting a piece of the Bombers legacy... we might not be able to compete.
Quote from: blue_or_die on February 02, 2023, 07:40:38 PM
An OG just signed a 250k+ contract.
Adjust expectations.
Potentially the best at his position coming from the NFL signed at 250.
Demski has never played a full season (averages 14). Never crossed 800 receiving yards. NI value is taking a hit moving forward with the "naturalized american" thing.
I don't think any other team puts more value on Nic than we do. We probably will pay him more than he would get on the open market, and it shouldn't be near 225.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 02, 2023, 06:53:24 PM
Demski probably isn't the best pure receiver available this off-season as far as route running, but he is the most versatile, explosive and dynamic athletic playmaker available, and most importantly he fits the Bomber offence to a Tee.
Demski would be an idiot to sign before gauging interest in the legal tampering period. He is 29 years old coming off his best receiving year by far, and an explosion of TDs. He has the potential to leverage this into a 3 year deal with some guaranteed money. He won't ever have a chance to maximize his earnings that is better than this. I would bet he wants to be here, but he is going to maximize his position by taking offers.
Quote from: the paw on February 02, 2023, 10:49:04 PM
Demski would be an idiot to sign before gauging interest in the legal tampering period. He is 29 years old coming off his best receiving year by far, and an explosion of TDs. He has the potential to leverage this into a 3 year deal with some guaranteed money. He won't ever have a chance to maximize his earnings that is better than this. I would bet he wants to be here, but he is going to maximize his position by taking offers.
Exactly my thoughts.
On a side note, I hope Walters has his eyes set on Lanier from Sask. I think he would fit in very nicely between the Jeff?s.
Quote from: blue_or_die on February 02, 2023, 07:40:38 PM
An OG just signed a 250k+ contract.
Adjust expectations.
I don't think I'd go very much over $200,000.
Re Demski. Bombers are in contact with him but no contract signed yet.
No time to panic yet?
Quote from: M.O.A.B. on February 03, 2023, 12:56:06 AM
Re Demski. Bombers are in contact with him but no contract signed yet.
No time to panic yet?
No point in hitting the panic button. He may check out his market value but that doesn't mean he doesn't re-sign.
I am a little surprised we haven't signed somebody on our potential list this week.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 03, 2023, 01:25:51 AM
No point in hitting the panic button. He may check out his market value but that doesn't mean he doesn't re-sign.
I am a little surprised we haven't signed somebody on our potential list this week.
At this point, players probably want to get to the tampering period before signing.
Quote from: Pete on February 02, 2023, 05:38:35 PM
Is paying over 200k for a guy who gets 5-7 touches a game ( approx 70yds) a good investment?
When all the other teams say the gameplan the whole D around one player, that's the player you want to retain.
It's kind of like Willie J: all the O's gameplan around that smoke. That's a game-breaker.
So, ya!!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 02, 2023, 06:53:24 PM
Demski probably isn't the best pure receiver available this off-season as far as route running, but he is the most versatile, explosive and dynamic athletic playmaker available, and most importantly he fits the Bomber offence to a Tee.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 02, 2023, 07:43:34 PM
He is a ratio breaker and a dependable receiver with big play potential. He makes defensive co-ordinators have to scheme different when he is on the field.
TLB and Aards know the score.
If we lose Demski
and Schoen this year, then we are basically a bare cupboard and our O won't move the ball...
Quote from: Nic16 on February 02, 2023, 11:11:23 PM
On a side note, I hope Walters has his eyes set on Lanier from Sask. I think he would fit in very nicely between the Jeff?s.
No idea on his status, but Lanier is like 1 of the 2 or 3 guys all the fans and radio pundits in SSK
didn't want to burn last season. I would think there's no way they let him go. Unless O'Day and the Green Mafia really are that dumb...
If he does go to FA and is reasonable $$ then we pull one of our famous ex-SSK castoff pickups. Those ex-greeners always work out well in blue & gold (Willie, Demski, Neuf, Hardrick, Dress, ...).
Anyone know what Demski's off-season job is? If it's more involved than personal training or selling cars it may help tie him to Wpg., also owing his own home would be an anchor more difficult to uproot.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 03, 2023, 06:38:17 AM
No idea on his status, but Lanier is like 1 of the 2 or 3 guys all the fans and radio pundits in SSK didn't want to burn last season. I would think there's no way they let him go. Unless O'Day and the Green Mafia really are that dumb...
If he does go to FA and is reasonable $$ then we pull one of our famous ex-SSK castoff pickups. Those ex-greeners always work out well in blue & gold (Willie, Demski, Neuf, Hardrick, Dress, ...).
The question is, does Lanier want to stay in SSK's dumpster fire. Sure, the EDM are the laughing stock right now as far as roster signings, and good luck making the roster at a high pay without blowing everyone off the field. But SSK has turmoil on the O, coaching and GM are in danger of being fired if they get off to a bad start, and they are my pick to pick first overall in 2024... do you want to be the best player on a losing team? And have zero shot at post season money?
He will hit the tampering period, get some lucrative offers from contenders, and *maybe* SSK can convince him to stay for big bucks... but i doubt it.
Not saying we sign him, we already have a lot of SMS committed to the DL, and we usually find guys to fit, so we don't have a "need". But another team definately will covet him and be able to make a better offer than SSK, unless ODay blows his SMS on him.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 03, 2023, 04:42:39 PM
Anyone know what Demski's off-season job is? If it's more involved than personal training or selling cars it may help tie him to Wpg., also owing his own home would be an anchor more difficult to uproot.
No doubt that the "home town discount" comes into play, as well as cashing nearly $100k in post season cheques the last three seasons. But that doesn't mean we can sign him for $150k... he will get offers, and we will have to be competitive. And I have no issue with that.
Looking at some teams like Toronto and Hamilton they seem to have a lot of free agents, I wonder if they don't have a number agreed to but aren't announcing them to throw other teams off.
Quote from: Pete on February 03, 2023, 05:05:16 PM
Looking at some teams like Toronto and Hamilton they seem to have a lot of free agents, I wonder if they don't have a number agreed to but aren't announcing them to throw other teams off.
The "tampering period" will quickly reveal those shenanigans, and might end up causing GM's problems if someone offers a player that is signed but unannounced a larger deal...
I can't see any GM doing this.
We have a team culture that encourages players to stay. Hence our re-signing rates. Other teams might not have that advantage. Some players may be looking to upgrade from their current situation to a team like the Bombers. And that's what the tampering week is for.
All that having a lot of unsigned players today mean is that that will have a lot more work to do during the post tampering/preFA days.
OK, Grant is back... Demski now, please...
So happy about Grant.
One of my favourites.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 03, 2023, 08:10:03 PM
OK, Grant is back... Demski now, please...
Agreed, Grant may have a bigger role in the receiving game if we don't get some experienced receivers in the lineup. Demski and Shoen if they sign will help solve that dilemma.
Grant is back?
Quote from: bwiser on February 03, 2023, 08:23:46 PM
Agreed, Grant may have a bigger role in the receiving game if we don't get some experienced receivers in the lineup. Demski and Shoen if they sign will help solve that dilemma.
I think the Bombers always promise to get him more involved in the O, but it never quite works out. Truth is it's hard to keep a dual role returner healthy, they're always getting banged up.
https://3downnation.com/2023/02/03/bombers-re-sign-record-setting-kick-returner-janarion-grant/
Problem with inserting Grant is he's good for certain gadget plays, but you tip your hand when you use him... plus, unless we are devoid of talent, I'd prefer to keep him fresh for returning.
As a backup in case of injury, sure. No issue with that.
Just keep him going the way we have been.
We are not going to be able to sign everyone:
Demski: Is a must for me. Home town boy with number of good years left.
Bailey: Had a very good year would love to see him back for a few more years.
Purkop: Best shortage guy in the league.
Sayles: Had another good year. Turning into a very good DT. $$
Couture: Very good C. We mite not have enough cap space to keep him.
Briggs: Long time Bombers, very dependable, but we mite have to get a little younger and cheaper.
Ellingson: Excellent receiver when he is healthy. Mite need his salary to keep Demski and Bailey.
Taylor: ?? Injury, age, $$.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 05, 2023, 07:15:32 PM
We are not going to be able to sign everyone:
Demski: Is a must for me. Home town boy with number of good years left.
Bailey: Had a very good year would love to see him back for a few more years.
Purkop: Best shortage guy in the league.
Sayles: Had another good year. Turning into a very good DT. $$
Couture: Very good C. We mite not have enough cap space to keep him.
Briggs: Long time Bombers, very dependable, but we mite have to get a little younger and cheaper.
Ellingson: Excellent receiver when he is healthy. Mite need his salary to keep Demski and Bailey.
Taylor: ?? Injury, age, $$.
Cross Demski off!
Demksi - New three year contract with the Bombers.
https://3downnation.com/2023/02/05/winnipeg-blue-bombers-re-sign-canadian-receiver-nic-demski/
Quote from: Pigskin on February 05, 2023, 07:15:32 PM
We are not going to be able to sign everyone:
Demski: Is a must for me. Home town boy with number of good years left.
Bailey: Had a very good year would love to see him back for a few more years.
Purkop: Best shortage guy in the league.
Sayles: Had another good year. Turning into a very good DT. $$
Couture: Very good C. We mite not have enough cap space to keep him.
Briggs: Long time Bombers, very dependable, but we mite have to get a little younger and cheaper.
Ellingson: Excellent receiver when he is healthy. Mite need his salary to keep Demski and Bailey.
Taylor: ?? Injury, age, $$.
Yeah, I'd like Bailey and Sayles back in particular but Prukop probably returns as well. I can see some demand for each of these players but find it hard to believe any other team is going to go nuts with big $$ to sign them. We should be competitive. There are a bunch of players in each category that other teams will start trying to re-sign with their own potential free agents.
Bailey and Prukop would be our next ones too sign, the others are not a required signing.
https://3downnation.com/2023/02/05/no-trade-needed-bombers-re-sign-db-alden-darby-jr/
Remaining Blue Bomber Free Agents as of February 5, 2023
OFFENCE
Quarterbacks
Dakota Prukop
Receivers
Rasheed Bailey; Greg Ellingson;
Offensive line
C Michael Couture*;
DEFENCE
Defensive line
Casey Sayles; Keion Adams
Linebackers
Jesse Briggs*; Les Maruo (Global)
Defensive backs
Nick Taylor; Mercy Maston
Just a thought - Ja'Gared Davis would look good in Blue and Gold.
Quote from: ModAdmin on February 06, 2023, 06:32:53 AM
Just a thought - Ja'Gared Davis would look good in Blue and Gold.
Hmmm, eeeeeehhh... I don't know. His always dancing between snaps in the middle of the GCs really irked me. Regular season, maybe. But not GC. And he didn't do much in those cups, either. I think his price tag will overshadow his performance.
It would be awesome to have Sayles back but you can't have everything. He'll probably get a nice raise with multiple FA offers. Bombers have, in recent years, not prioritized spending there so we're likely looking at another open camp competition at tackle.
8 days left, and we are looking pretty good. A few key signings left before FA starts. Nice work Mr. Walters.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 06, 2023, 01:58:14 PM
It would be awesome to have Sayles back but you can't have everything. He'll probably get a nice raise with multiple FA offers. Bombers have, in recent years, not prioritized spending there so we're likely looking at another open camp competition at tackle.
IDK that Sayles will get multiple offers. There are still over 20 DL listed as potential free agents. Lots to choose from.
Quote from: Jesse on February 02, 2023, 08:06:59 PM
Potentially the best at his position coming from the NFL signed at 250.
Demski has never played a full season (averages 14). Never crossed 800 receiving yards. NI value is taking a hit moving forward with the "naturalized american" thing.
I don't think any other team puts more value on Nic than we do. We probably will pay him more than he would get on the open market, and it shouldn't be near 225.
Best at his position, sure, but not best in a ratio-breaking position.
I don't expect the naturalized american thing to be a big deal until I see it in action (i.e., show that it has teeth and that the CFL is even accurately monitoring it).
All moot points now that he's signed, and it sounds like the "under" people should be happy with the ~190k number. My number was about 200 or a smidge more, so in my eyes this includes a hometown discount.
Happy timez for all in any case.
Quote from: blue_or_die on February 06, 2023, 09:06:50 PM
I don't expect the naturalized american thing to be a big deal until I see it in action (i.e., show that it has teeth and that the CFL is even accurately monitoring it).
I'm with you. Just thinking about the implications makes my brain hurt so much I'll just wait to see it in action. I really hope we're not in for a shock with drastic changes in who is on field most of the time... but it could be!!
If FAKENATs take over the field in a big way, it will greatly devalue guys like Demski and Woli. But, I trust that Walters has thought through the implications and is making the right decisions.
I could see Chris Jones going completely mental coming up with all the ways to game the system to field as many IMPs as possible at all times. Jones hates NATs and the ratio (IMHO).
Rumours out there that Michael Couture may sign with the arch nemesis - the Riders!
Quote from: ModAdmin on February 07, 2023, 06:16:25 AM
Rumours out there that Michael Couture may sign with the our arch nemesis - the Riders!
I could see that happening with the Riders actively looking to replace D.Clark.
The Riders have no choice if they want to improve that porous O-line. That likely means overpaying for him, too.
Quote from: ModAdmin on February 07, 2023, 06:16:25 AM
Rumours out there that Michael Couture may sign with the our arch nemesis - the Riders!
Maybe BC has no need for him or no budget to go after him, the Lions still have 3 of their own O-lineman heading to F.A. Chungh, Figueroa, Godber, all 3 could start in Sask..
It's probably the best place for him, tbh.
Quote from: ModAdmin on February 07, 2023, 06:16:25 AM
Rumours out there that Michael Couture may sign with the our arch nemesis - the Riders!
It'll be interesting to see Saskatchewan overpay for OL to build an offensive line that Cody Fajita needed.
Unofficial news but.......
Jeff Hamilton
@jeffkhamilton
18m
BREAKING: The Winnipeg Blue Bombers have agreed in principle to a two-year contract with receiver Kenny Lawler. Details unclear at this point. #wfp
So as it stand right now, we only need another DT and another receiver (maybe Agudosi) and we already have our staring lineup. Is it June yet?
Bombers are looking good.
Quote from: M.O.A.B. on February 07, 2023, 10:31:31 PM
So as it stand right now, we only need another DT and another receiver (maybe Agudosi) and we already have our staring lineup. Is it June yet?
I know everyone has Agudosi pencilled in as an affordable 5th starter, but I wonder if the guy will ever stay healthy. 3down just published the extensive list of free agent receivers, and I wonder if there might be some sneaky good deals we could afford.
I think Kyran Moore and Ryan Davis might be 2 young guys that would be interesting to add to the mix.
Quote from: the paw on February 08, 2023, 01:23:08 PM
I know everyone has Agudosi pencilled in as an affordable 5th starter, but I wonder if the guy will ever stay healthy. 3down just published the extensive list of free agent receivers, and I wonder if there might be some sneaky good deals we could afford.
I think Kyran Moore and Ryan Davis might be 2 young guys that would be interesting to add to the mix.
Agudosi is far from a lock but he did show promise in the 1 game he played. There will be about 12 pure rookies in TC showing up to compete for spots. Bombers might add a free agent with some CFL experience. A couple of other of our PR players might fall into the mix.
Too early to tell but offence is looking good with the least amount of issues to deal with at the moment.
Quote from: the paw on February 08, 2023, 01:23:08 PM
I know everyone has Agudosi pencilled in as an affordable 5th starter, but I wonder if the guy will ever stay healthy. 3down just published the extensive list of free agent receivers, and I wonder if there might be some sneaky good deals we could afford.
I think Kyran Moore and Ryan Davis might be 2 young guys that would be interesting to add to the mix.
I think we just have to go with guys on rookie contracts for any remaining contracts.
Time for the scouts to do their jobs too.
I really don't think a "sneaky" veteran signing is in the works. Our budget for Red corps is more than blown. Any others will be on ELC's... which is not a bad thing, who knows what you'll find. Lawler, Bailey both gave us good value on ELC's...
Quote from: the paw on February 08, 2023, 01:23:08 PM
I know everyone has Agudosi pencilled in as an affordable 5th starter, but I wonder if the guy will ever stay healthy. 3down just published the extensive list of free agent receivers, and I wonder if there might be some sneaky good deals we could afford.
I think Kyran Moore and Ryan Davis might be 2 young guys that would be interesting to add to the mix.
I think Moore is a very effective relief receiver in a sneaky Dressler way, team him up with a good a vet. QB and he could still cause some damage. I expect he will find a home in Ham., Ott., or Mtl. if Sask. lets him go.
Quote from: the paw on February 08, 2023, 01:23:08 PM
I know everyone has Agudosi pencilled in as an affordable 5th starter, but I wonder if the guy will ever stay healthy. 3down just published the extensive list of free agent receivers, and I wonder if there might be some sneaky good deals we could afford.
I think Kyran Moore and Ryan Davis might be 2 young guys that would be interesting to add to the mix.
I think both those guys are speedier, smaller receivers. I don?t think the Bombers really lean towards those guys.
Only a few days left to re-sign any of our veterans before free agency. IMO only Prukop and Sayles are still on our radar. Regardless that's 10 players from 2022 that might no longer be with the team. Previously we released Thompson and Rene. Ford left for NFL.
I guess that leaves some open spots to fill in TC or possibly once free agency begins.
Team generally looks pretty good.
I think the only area left to address is the interior D-line. The rest of the roster looks pretty stout.
Quote from: Jesse on February 08, 2023, 02:10:20 PM
I think we just have to go with guys on rookie contracts for any remaining contracts.
Time for the scouts to do their jobs too.
Yeah, Lawler was the ?sneaky FA.? Someone like Kieran Moore would have been great if we didn?t have a ?break the bank for a #1 rec? approach. But we?re done. And, there?s only one ball to go around and we have 3 superstar receivers.
Excited to see who the scouts find as a future receiver. Happy to pencil in Agudosi in in the meantime and if he gets injured, said random ELC American might get their shot (unless it?s O?Leary-Orange).
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 08, 2023, 05:19:34 PM
I think the only area left to address is the interior D-line. The rest of the roster looks pretty stout.
agreed other than stocking depth in areas like DB for example. A lot of fans still detest the kicker though. I remain on the fence with him still but it seems I have been on the fence on and off for 18+ months. When is a enough enough I am not sure at this time.
kicker definitely needs more competition. bringing back only Mourtada would be inexcusable
Quote from: kkc60 on February 08, 2023, 07:23:09 PM
kicker definitely needs more competition. bringing back only Mourtada would be inexcusable
Agree. Leggs is young and still has room to grow. But like all positions we need to bring in competition.
I would really like to hear what is happening with Purkop.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 08, 2023, 07:47:35 PM
I would really like to hear what is happening with Purkop.
Lions just agreed to a contract with Dom. Davis. That's one less possible destination for Prukop. That may be because he was not interested in moving or offers put forward. He may return to Winnipeg or he might be looking south to XFL or USFL.
Actually I wonder if we see some movement when free agency starts. The 3rd and 4th level players could be departing the CFL all together. Those leagues won't attract the better higher paid players but those coming off ELC's that were only depth players.
Aside from that there will be some players moving to new teams.
Quote from: kkc60 on February 08, 2023, 04:59:56 PM
I think both those guys are speedier, smaller receivers. I don?t think the Bombers really lean towards those guys.
I dunno. Aside from the somewhat dated example of Dressler, we signed that Ryan Smith about the same time. And more recently both McKnight and McRae got long looks and multiple chances from the Bombers. Both of them are 5'10", same as Davis and Moore (although a bit heavier than Davis and Moore).
Anyway, we are probably maxed out on the SMS and can't afford anything but league minimum at the spot, so I would be surprised if we could pull it off. I just think both of those guys have the skill set for those shallow, dragging routes across the middle that Bailey got a lot of his receptions from. Like Bailey, both of them would be decent at YAC as well. Oh well, wishful thinking....
Sayles just signed with Hamiton, at 200k according to Justin Dunk. Hard to believe they'd let Dunbar go and then pay that much for Sayles. Most here wouldn't have seen that price tag coming
Quote from: Pete on February 09, 2023, 12:32:33 AM
Sayles just signed with Hamiton, at 200k according to Justin Dunk. Hard to believe they'd let Dunbar go and then pay that much for Sayles. Most here wouldn't have seen that price tag coming
Myself included. I thought he was being overrated on here but I guess not.
Good for him.
Quote from: Pete on February 09, 2023, 12:32:33 AM
Sayles just signed with Hamiton, at 200k according to Justin Dunk. Hard to believe they'd let Dunbar go and then pay that much for Sayles. Most here wouldn't have seen that price tag coming
Wow, he did well, never thought he would ask for that much, but explains why Walters probably couldn't bring him back.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 09, 2023, 01:10:36 AM
Wow, he did well, never thought he would ask for that much, but explains why Walters probably couldn't bring him back.
His numbers were very comparable to Mike Rose and Micah Johnson. He has been durable, productive and improving. I can see why a team like Hamilton with an aging interior would value him highly.
Bring back Stove Richardson!
Quote from: the paw on February 08, 2023, 10:31:41 PM
I dunno. Aside from the somewhat dated example of Dressler, we signed that Ryan Smith about the same time. And more recently both McKnight and McRae got long looks and multiple chances from the Bombers. Both of them are 5'10", same as Davis and Moore (although a bit heavier than Davis and Moore).
Anyway, we are probably maxed out on the SMS and can't afford anything but league minimum at the spot, so I would be surprised if we could pull it off. I just think both of those guys have the skill set for those shallow, dragging routes across the middle that Bailey got a lot of his receptions from. Like Bailey, both of them would be decent at YAC as well. Oh well, wishful thinking....
Smith didn?t really pan out and Dressler was with a different OC and QB. McCrae is a burner, sure. But even with him we struggled to really find a role for him. McKnight too
Quote from: the paw on February 09, 2023, 01:25:31 AM
His numbers were very comparable to Mike Rose and Micah Johnson. He has been durable, productive and improving. I can see why a team like Hamilton with an aging interior would value him highly.
Yes, Sayles was very good for us. Now what is Mr. Walters Plan B.
Blue Bomber remaining Free Agents as of February 8, 2023
OFFENCE
Quarterbacks
Dakota Prukop
Receivers
Rasheed Bailey; Greg Ellingson
Offensive line
C Michael Couture*
DEFENCE
Defensive line
Keion Adams
Linebackers
Jesse Briggs*; Les Maruo (Global)
Defensive backs
Nick Taylor; Mercy Maston
Quote from: Pete on February 09, 2023, 12:32:33 AM
Sayles just signed with Hamiton, at 200k according to Justin Dunk. Hard to believe they'd let Dunbar go and then pay that much for Sayles. Most here wouldn't have seen that price tag coming
Holy giblets Batman! Sayles is
not a 200k player. Is the braintrust in HAM hitting the game-day smelling salts this early and heavily in the silly season?? I cannot fathom this move.
Uh, don't they have Laurent and Wynn?? I'd take Wynn over Sayles any day of the week (ignoring that he's a total nasty you know what -- "you don't do that!").
What is wrong with GMs in this league?? SMS going up $1M this year?? Insane
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 09, 2023, 06:08:12 AM
Holy giblets Batman! Sayles is not a 200k player. Is the braintrust in HAM hitting the game-day smelling salts this early and heavily in the silly season?? I cannot fathom this move.
Uh, don't they have Laurent and Wynn?? I'd take Wynn over Sayles any day of the week (ignoring that he's a total nasty you know what -- "you don't do that!").
What is wrong with GMs in this league?? SMS going up $1M this year?? Insane
It was expected and I'm not really surprised by the amount. Might be a touch high but not really. Interior defensive line play doesn't make headlines but is in some ways more important than the ends. The real question is whether our scouts can find yet another diamond there on an ELC.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 09, 2023, 06:08:12 AM
Holy giblets Batman! Sayles is not a 200k player. Is the braintrust in HAM hitting the game-day smelling salts this early and heavily in the silly season?? I cannot fathom this move.
Uh, don't they have Laurent and Wynn?? I'd take Wynn over Sayles any day of the week (ignoring that he's a total nasty you know what -- "you don't do that!").
What is wrong with GMs in this league?? SMS going up $1M this year?? Insane
Market paid 200k for him so he is worth close to that.
Silly to state that he not worth that as he is signed. I would suggest you evaluate his worth based on what his season brings. He is a very good player that contributed consistently for us and will be missed. I expect if healthy he will earn every dime.
Last few seasons GMs are paying premium for vets / impact players. They are worth what the market will pay.
Sorry to lose Sayles but $200K was more than I think we could afford after other new contracts. Can't keep everyone we'd like.
Did that change the decision on re-signing any of our remaining free agents not that he's no longer available? I haven't heard any other teams making offers on Bailey and I'd like him back.
OTOH, do we make one bigger type pick up in free agency? Lots of DL still available but many are older and high SMS cost in theory.
Quote from: pjrocksmb on February 09, 2023, 12:31:53 PM
Market paid 200k for him so he is worth close to that.
Silly to state that he not worth that as he is signed. I would suggest you evaluate his worth based on what his season brings. He is a very good player that contributed consistently for us and will be missed. I expect if healthy he will earn every dime.
Last few seasons GMs are paying premium for vets / impact players. They are worth what the market will pay.
Sorry but as arm chair GM's we can all have an opinion as to whether a player is worth x amount. Very few posters and even CFL/ 3dwn top free agents lists had Sayles listed very high. Perhaps Sask signing of Lanier and Edmonton signing Ceresna impacted the market.,but our opinion of his value doesn't have to be the same
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 09, 2023, 01:47:46 PM
Sorry to lose Sayles but $200K was more than I think we could afford after other new contracts. Can't keep everyone we'd like.
Did that change the decision on re-signing any of our remaining free agents not that he's no longer available? I haven't heard any other teams making offers on Bailey and I'd like him back.
OTOH, do we make one bigger type pick up in free agency? Lots of DL still available but many are older and high SMS cost in theory.
Certainly indicates an area of assistance needs to be the D-line, lost Sayles and may also lose Keion Adams, perhaps Walters will fill in with a F.A. star, F.A. leftovers, or bring in a ton of new bodies to compete in T.C..
Is interior DL a tough possition to fill in the CFL? We lost the stove last year and Sayles this year.
We seem to be a decent source for DL for the league.
Bombers still have Walker who I really like! Plus Adamson, Lawson and Thomas are all nationals.
Thomas obviously started and played decent.
Lawson played really well in my opinion in limited reps and is 24 years old.
Adamson is only 23 and hasn't played a minute in the league yet, but showed promise last season with the Bisons.
Let's see who our scouts pick up in the next couple of months!
There's a few good experience DTs out there. However the Bombers found Stove and Sayles. I am sure they feel they can find another good DT. Interesting fact, Drake Nevis has played 1 game since leaving the Bombers and Stove O games. Drake will be 34, but if he's healthy, he is a great against the run.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 09, 2023, 06:35:52 PM
There's a few good experience DTs out there. However the Bombers found Stove and Sayles. I am sure they feel they can find another good DT. Interesting fact, Drake Nevis has played 1 game since leaving the Bombers and Stove O games. Drake will be 34, but if he's healthy, he is a great against the run.
Drake hasn't played since 2021, he's probably retired.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 09, 2023, 07:01:51 PM
Drake hasn't played since 2021, he's probably retired.
Very well could be. But, if he is not I would kick his tires.
Quote from: pjrocksmb on February 09, 2023, 12:31:53 PM
Market paid 200k for him so he is worth close to that.
Yes, I agree. Worth it to
them. But he's not worth that to me or (it would seem) any other team.
Here's my main problem: neither Nevis nor Stove earned $200k when they departed WPG, did they? No one can argue that Nevis and Stove weren't better then Sayles.
And it still doesn't explain why HAM would do this with Wynn and Laurent, unless one of those isn't coming back.
And is Stove still under contract? I would guess he'd be starting as a star DT this season if he's finally out of the tub.
Quote from: LXTSN on February 09, 2023, 05:53:57 PM
Is interior DL a tough possition to fill in the CFL? We lost the stove last year and Sayles this year.
We seem to be a decent source for DL for the league.
You would think not (like SAM, haha). But, man, do the run-D stats really start to suffer when you don't have top DT talent. And it's a really hard position to eyeball and judge because most of their work is hidden in the scrum.
The big thing for me is can a DT shed the tackles, know where the ball is coming, and make the A or B-gap tackle. That is key. Nevis was DA MAN at that. The weaker guys can't shed those OL paws and RBs zoom right past them. Pass pressure is, for me, a distant second consideration.
Quote from: LXTSN on February 09, 2023, 05:53:57 PM
Bombers still have Walker who I really like! Plus Adamson, Lawson and Thomas are all nationals.
Thomas obviously started and played decent.
Lawson played really well in my opinion in limited reps and is 24 years old.
I'm glad we have Fatboi, as he stabilizes the shaky and ever-changing DT unit, and adds vet presence and certainly knowledge. Like you, I was also impressed with the little we saw of Walker and Lawson. Both made some pivotal (but, again, hard to see) plays last season. Are we good enough with them? No one knows. One would think there
must be some new faces being brought into TC...
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 10, 2023, 04:14:47 AM
Yes, I agree. Worth it to them. But he's not worth that to me or (it would seem) any other team.
Here's my main problem: neither Nevis nor Stove earned $200k when they departed WPG, did they? No one can argue that Nevis and Stove weren't better then Sayles.
And it still doesn't explain why HAM would do this with Wynn and Laurent, unless one of those isn't coming back.
And is Stove still under contract? I would guess he'd be starting as a star DT this season if he's finally out of the tub.
I can argue that point. Stove's best season was 25 tackles and 2 sacks. Since then he played half a season and then missed a season.
Casey Sayles has played 2 full seasons without missing a game. And each of those 2 seasons had better production than Stove's best. 28 tackles and 5 sacks, 36 tackles and 6 sacks. Not everything shows on the stat sheet, but what is there tells a tail of a more active DT making plays. And durability is an asset.
Hamilton is likely looking to replace Micah Johnson is both old and expensive. Laurent can only be a rotational or relief player at this point in his career, he is on strict load management if you want him to be effective. Sayles and Wynn, with Laurent in relief is going to be a very active interior with lots of push.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 10, 2023, 04:22:05 AM
You would think not (like SAM, haha). But, man, do the run-D stats really start to suffer when you don't have top DT talent. And it's a really hard position to eyeball and judge because most of their work is hidden in the scrum.
The big thing for me is can a DT shed the tackles, know where the ball is coming, and make the A or B-gap tackle. That is key. Nevis was DA MAN at that. The weaker guys can't shed those OL paws and RBs zoom right past them. Pass pressure is, for me, a distant second consideration.
I'm glad we have Fatboi, as he stabilizes the shaky and ever-changing DT unit, and adds vet presence and certainly knowledge. Like you, I was also impressed with the little we saw of Walker and Lawson. Both made some pivotal (but, again, hard to see) plays last season. Are we good enough with them? No one knows. One would think there must be some new faces being brought into TC...
Lawson is going to be a good Natl. replacement for Jake when he decides to hang em up. Not that impressed with Ricky Walker when he's played, but he will be going into his 3rd season with the team, so perhaps they see him as Sayles legitimate replacement.
Here is a good summary of where things stand - roster-wise - just prior to Free Agency (provided by Ed Tait...
DEFENCE
Defensive line
Under contract: DE Willie Jefferson, DE Jackson Jeffcoat, DT Jake Thomas*, DT Cam Lawson*, DT Ricky Walker, DE DeJuan Cooper, DE Thiadric Hansen (Global), DT Cole Adamson* (2022 CFL Draft pick)
Pending Blue Bomber free agents: DT Casey Sayles, DE Keion Adams
Linebackers
Under contract: Adam Bighill, Kyrie Wilson, Malik Clements, Brian Cole, Shayne Gauthier*, Tanner Cadwallader*
Pending Blue Bomber free agents: Jesse Briggs*, Les Maruo (G)
Secondary
Under contract: DB Deatrick Nichols, CB Winston Rose, S Brandon Alexander, DB/CB Desmond Lawrence, DB/CB Demerio Houston, Dime Alden Darby, Jr., DB Evan Holm, DB/CB Jamal Parker, S Nick Hallett*, S Noah Hallett *, DB Redha Kramdi*, DB Souleymane Karamoko (G), DB Cedrick Lavigne*, DB Deuce Wallace, DB Karon Delince, Jacob Janke*
Note: CB Tyrell Ford* has signed with the Green Bay Packers but remains under contract to the Blue Bombers should he be released
Pending Blue Bomber free agents: DB Nick Taylor, DB Mercy Maston
OFFENCE
Quarterbacks
Under contract: Zach Collaros, Dru Brown
Pending Blue Bomber free agent: Dakota Prukop
Receivers
Under contract: Nic Demski*, Drew Wolitarsky*, Dalton Schoen, Brendan O?Leary-Orange*, Janarion Grant, Carlton Agudosi, Tavaris Harrison, Jaivon Heiligh (late practice roster addition last year), Timothy Knuettel (Global, late practice roster addition last year).
'New' faces: Kenny Lawler (agreed in principle)
Pending Blue Bombers free agents: SB Rasheed Bailey, SB Greg Ellingson
Running backs/Fullbacks
Under contract: RB Brady Oliveira*, RB/SB Greg McCrae, RB Johnny Augustine*, FB Mike Miller*, FB Konner Burtenshaw*
Pending Blue Bomber free agents: none
Offensive line
Under contract: LT Stanley Bryant, RG Pat Neufeld*, RT Jermarcus Hardrick, G Geoff Gray*, G Chris Kolankowski*, G Liam Dobson*, OT Drew Richmond, Tui Eli* (returns after not playing in 2022), Tomoya Machino (G)
Pending Blue Bomber free agents: C Michael Couture*
SPECIALISTS
Under contract: P/PK Marc Liegghio*, LS Mike Benson*, KR Janarion Grant
Pending Blue Bomber free agents: none
3. One of the narratives occasionally stoked up since last fall, and especially after the one-point loss in the Grey Cup, is how the Blue Bombers have an aging roster staring at a championship window open for only so long. It?s valid, but some context is also needed here. Consider the list of projected Blue Bombers starters who are currently 30 and over:
LB Adam Bighill (34)
LT Stanley Bryant (36)
RT Jermarcus Hardrick (32)
G Pat Neufeld (34)
C Chris Kolankowski (31)
QB Zach Collaros (34)
Dime Alden Darby, Jr. (30)
DE Jackson Jeffcoat (32)
DE Willie Jefferson (32)
DT Jake Thomas (32)
LB Kyrie Wilson (30)
So, while we're doing this, here are the Blue Bombers projected starters currently under 30 years of age:
WR Carlton Agudosi (29)
S Brandon Alexander (29)
SB Nic Demski (29)
G Geoff Gray (28)
DB Demerio Houston (26)
DB Desmond Lawrence (28)
DB Deatrick Nichols (28)
RB Brady Oliveira (25)
CB Winston Rose (29)
WR Dalton Schoen (26)
WR Drew Wolitarsky (27)
WR Kenny Lawler (28)
DT Ricky Walker (26)
Nice mix of vets of younger players. I want at least one more cup in next three years and two home playoff games.
Quote from: the paw on February 10, 2023, 03:43:49 PM
I can argue that point. Stove's best season was 25 tackles and 2 sacks. Since then he played half a season and then missed a season.
And durability is an asset.
Yes, I should have qualified my statement. Stove is better than Sayles
when he's on the field. From a signing standpoint, Sayles was way better than Stove in '22 because Stove didn't see the field. So KW did the right thing in hindsight.
But surely you can't say that for the games where Stove was on the field we had a weaker run D than when Sayles was on the field...
Maybe the Bomber DT curse will follow Sayles and now Sayles will spend a year in the tub. Maybe it's our way of sabotaging other teams. :D :D :D
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 11, 2023, 01:42:26 AM
Yes, I should have qualified my statement. Stove is better than Sayles when he's on the field. From a signing standpoint, Sayles was way better than Stove in '22 because Stove didn't see the field. So KW did the right thing in hindsight.
But surely you can't say that for the games where Stove was on the field we had a weaker run D than when Sayles was on the field...
Maybe the Bomber DT curse will follow Sayles and now Sayles will spend a year in the tub. Maybe it's our way of sabotaging other teams. :D :D :D
No. Stoves best season, when he WAS on the field, was less than either of Sayles 2 seasons. Full stop.
Durability is just an additional reason Sayles got paid.
If you want to argue Stove is a better run stopper you can, but most CFL teams are looking for DTs that can play on both running downs and passing downs.
Quote from: the paw on February 11, 2023, 02:16:35 AM
If you want to argue Stove is a better run stopper you can, but most CFL teams are looking for DTs that can play on both running downs and passing downs.
You only have to look at the '21 season, and go read the forum posts (and most not from me). The parts of the season where Stove was missing and it was Sayles starting in his place our run D really sufferred. When Stove came back it was back to '19 run-D. I don't think many would dispute this. It was talked about on here a ton.
You make a good point though in that
maybe Sayles is a better complete package. Maybe. Sayles does have more speed and can reach the QB a bit more. So maybe he is the better pass rusher. However, I do remember Stove barrelling through the C & G's a few times to reach the QB for some big hits too.
It'll be interesting to see how Stove (and maybe even Nevis) has his season/career progress in 2023, compared to Sayles.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 12, 2023, 08:38:00 PM
You only have to look at the '21 season, and go read the forum posts (and most not from me). The parts of the season where Stove was missing and it was Sayles starting in his place our run D really sufferred. When Stove came back it was back to '19 run-D. I don't think many would dispute this. It was talked about on here a ton.
You make a good point though in that maybe Sayles is a better complete package. Maybe. Sayles does have more speed and can reach the QB a bit more. So maybe he is the better pass rusher. However, I do remember Stove barrelling through the C & G's a few times to reach the QB for some big hits too.
It'll be interesting to see how Stove (and maybe even Nevis) has his season/career progress in 2023, compared to Sayles.
To be fair Stove was gone for the first half of the season and I believe Sayles was just getting his feet wet in his rookie season.
Stove was good and reliable
Sayles slightly more versatile
I really like them both
Stove and Sayles were both good for different reasons imo. Is Sayles worth 200k per? I don't think so. However, I don't think any DT is. I would say 2020 Richardson was better than Sayles in 2021, but rookie seasons aside I don't think there is much question that Sayles is now having a better career. The number one reason DTs have short careers is because they prove to be unreliable injury wise. Richardson is dangerously close to receiving that unreliable sticker next to his name.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 10, 2023, 04:14:47 AM
Yes, I agree. Worth it to them. But he's not worth that to me or (it would seem) any other team.
Here's my main problem: neither Nevis nor Stove earned $200k when they departed WPG, did they? No one can argue that Nevis and Stove weren't better then Sayles.
And it still doesn't explain why HAM would do this with Wynn and Laurent, unless one of those isn't coming back.
And is Stove still under contract? I would guess he'd be starting as a star DT this season if he's finally out of the tub.
Laurent is not the player he used to be, and Wynn doesn't play NT. Micah had a great season and is likely looking to cash in as well. So that is Hamilton's reasoning in a nut shell. The market dictates what the prices will be. Right now DTs and receivers are at a premium. These things tend to cycle based on supply and demand.
Quote from: GCn19 on February 13, 2023, 01:00:07 PM
Stove and Sayles were both good for different reasons imo. Is Sayles worth 200k per? I don't think so. However, I don't think any DT is. I would say 2020 Richardson was better than Sayles in 2021, but rookie seasons aside I don't think there is much question that Sayles is now having a better career. The number one reason DTs have short careers is because they prove to be unreliable injury wise. Richardson is dangerously close to receiving that unreliable sticker next to his name.
This is kind of my point also. I see why we would overpay at this position when we've been able to find and develop talent at that position year after year.
We have a bright future at the position with Lawson and Adamson. Adamson did get 2 tackles and a sack in the home preseason game this year too.
1 day left and nothing happening in Bomber land. I was hoping we would sign Purkop over the weekend. Still hope there is time and money to sign Bailey. Maruo would be a nice global re-signing. DT still a ? Walker has been okay as a rotational player.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 13, 2023, 03:34:29 PM
1 day left and nothing happening in Bomber land. I was hoping we would sign Purkop over the weekend. Still hope there is time and money to sign Bailey. Maruo would be a nice global re-signing. DT still a ? Walker has been okay as a rotational player.
I wonder if the Bombers have lined up a young QB coming to camp who they think can replace Prukop as the 3rd down specialist. No idea who is on their radar.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 13, 2023, 03:34:29 PM
1 day left and nothing happening in Bomber land. I was hoping we would sign Purkop over the weekend. Still hope there is time and money to sign Bailey. Maruo would be a nice global re-signing. DT still a ? Walker has been okay as a rotational player.
I agree. Getting Prukop back wouldn't hurt. OTOH, a # 3 QB with a higher ceiling as a development player is not the worst situation either. No idea how much Prukop is on SMS but a rookie on an ELC would save some money.
Maruo was probably our 2nd best Global. I expect he is re-signed.
Bailey is a puzzle. It doesn't seem like other teams have made any offers and receivers are changing teams in large numbers. There are some opening with other teams but SMS may be a downfall. Ditto for the Bombers on being able to pay him.
At this point I don't see any help on the DL with potential free agents. Some talent but older and expensive. I don't see us making a move there.
If we choose to not re-sign Maruo and Briggs, I can see the chance of looking at adding a LB in free agency. Depending on hot the team feels about Cole, Cooper and Clements, perhaps we add a new LB as a DI. That might include replacing Clements if SMS overall is involved.
IE: A free agent that is better but costs a little more. SMS could be made up by by rookies on ELC's replacing Briggs, Maruo and Clements ( possibly ).
Now is there a candidate that fills the loss in depth both on defence and ST's at a SMS we can manage? I've always liked Awe but Clements isn't bad either.
Obviously there are many players a fan might want to add. However it comes down to SMS and a role which might be role player rather than a direct starter.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 13, 2023, 03:34:29 PM
1 day left and nothing happening in Bomber land. I was hoping we would sign Purkop over the weekend. Still hope there is time and money to sign Bailey. Maruo would be a nice global re-signing. DT still a ? Walker has been okay as a rotational player.
We can't buy our whole team in FA.
The scouts have to earn their checks too.
Quote from: Jesse on February 13, 2023, 05:12:09 PM
We can't buy our whole team in FA.
The scouts have to earn their checks too.
True enough and aside from the DL we're really looking for depth players. I'd say we were unsuccessful in 2022 finding that depth on the DL and are starting from scratch. Even Adams may not be returning although I didn't think he was doing doing badly.
We have a huge number of returning starters, and only a few depth positions to fill. our scouts should be more than capable of plugging any holes.
Prukop I can see wanting to try to get a starting role in USFL/XFL. He has enough talent to, and its probably better pay. Here, he's 3rd on the DC, and short yardage... so not a lot of chance to start and showcase his talent.
With Hansen under contract, I'm not sure if Mauro gets a deal, or if they draft a P/K for backup instead of Mortada. Even make a G our primary punter to allow Leggs to concentrate between the posts.
We are going to lose some talent, but most of which we have either signed or developed better quality players. Hate to see Bailey and Ellingson go, but there are only so many spots and so much $SMS to spend.
Sankey is an interesting variable. Not sure how many more years we can rely on Bighill playing at his level, Sankey would secure that spot for quite a while... but we can't see how we can have both...
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 13, 2023, 05:18:14 PM
True enough and aside from the DL we're really looking for depth players. I'd say we were unsuccessful in 2022 finding that depth on the DL and are starting from scratch. Even Adams may not be returning although I didn't think he was doing doing badly.
Can't remain status quo with the D-line, they dropped off last season and look to drop off even further with the loss of Sayles. They have to make some improvements in that department whether it comes from signing a vet. or new blood revealing itself in T.C.. Hopefully Walters has a plan.
Edit: According to the Ed Tait article published today, Ricky Walker is likely to become a starter to replace Sayles.
Kyle Walters is holding a media conference tomorrow February 14th at 12:30 pm CT regarding the Blue Bombers and Free Agency.
Quote from: ModAdmin on February 13, 2023, 05:53:25 PM
Kyle Walters is holding a media conference tomorrow February 14th at 12:30 pm CT regarding the Blue Bombers and Free Agency.
I wish he was holding this conference today to tells us were we are at with a couple of players.
Bombers have re-signed NAT LB Jesse Briggs.
Quote from: RyGuy13 on February 13, 2023, 06:38:08 PM
Bombers have re-signed NAT LB Jesse Briggs.
So far no retirements.
Quote from: RyGuy13 on February 13, 2023, 06:38:08 PM
Bombers have re-signed NAT LB Jesse Briggs.
JB had a tough year. 12 games 3DTs, 4 STs. compared to 2021 where he played in 13 games, 24 DTs, 5 STs, 1TD, 1 FF.
The KW comment on Bailey in the roster thread indicates we are offering Bailey a deal and it's just that he hasn't taken / negotiated what he wants yet. I'm happy we made an offer, as I think we're better with him.
But I think Bailey's heart might not be in it here anymore because he never seems to get "promoted" or "recognized" (my words, not anyone else's) as he feels he should. I get it, he's always kind of the forgotten IMP.
Lawler goes off to insane $$ and then comes back here for insane $$. Schoen blows up all records in his rookie year and leapfrogs Bailey. Ellingson was clearly Zach's darling before his '22 injury. Even the 5th-read guys like Agudosi and McCrae were making splashes some games.
Then there was the buzz in mid/late '22 about Bailey having a hissy fit. (True or not.)
So Bailey might want out to try for greener appreciation and recognition pastures with other teams. Whether he finds it or not remains to be seen.
The thing is, I think Bailey is great and a very important part of the O. He plays a style none of the other (current) guys do, and he certainly has talent. But it may be hard to recognize your limits and your place in the scheme when you see all these others guys who didn't "put in the time" like you did pole vault over you so quickly.
Could Bailey do more if Buck/Zach gave him more looks? Almost certainly. Just like D.Adams did when he went to OTT to be their #2-ish receiver. Bailey could go and be a solid #2 on another team (maybe OTT too), and he might prefer that recognition instead of staying here... especially if the $$ is the same or better.
Bailey does play an inportant role on thie team , the problem is its not the role he sees himself in. Rather than a solid support reciever your right he wants to be at least a number 2. My issue with him in that role is that he just doesnt get open enough. You very rarely see him create any seperation from the db. Most of his memorable catches tend to be where Zac throws him open low and away.
Farhan Lalji
@FarhanLaljiTSN
It appears that receivers Dalton Schoen & Kian Schaffer Baker will not be signing NFL deals. I suppose that could change in the next 12 hours, when the NFL window closes, but at this point they?re expected to back with #Bombers & #Riders respectively in 2023. @cflontsn
Well with Les signed, it's down to Bailey and Purkop. Mr. Walter's still hammering out deals with only a few hours left before FA begins.
I was expecting/hoping for a few more tweaks to the aging roster. Still might happen however.
Les be honest. Bailey is kind of forgettable as an American, at receiver, the. Guy has to be a difference maker. Bailey is a great blocker and team guy in the other things a football player on the field should be.
As noted, he isn?t the first option, and has anyone seen him run a pattern to get himself open? He?s more a zone guy, and a limited one at that.
In short, as many of his peers realize, if it?s a contract year, you need to post big stats, in case your own team doesn?t respect you. You need to make yourself known with other teams.
I would suspect if he leaves, he will go elsewhere and have a similar role, with a lousier team. If it was a sandlot game, would anyone pick him? Or would he be a next to last guy picked..
He should sign here, at least he has a role, and a solid organization.
Quote from: DM83 on February 14, 2023, 12:18:27 PM
Les be honest. Bailey is kind of forgettable as an American, at receiver, the. Guy has to be a difference maker. Bailey is a great blocker and team guy in the other things a football player on the field should be.
As noted, he isn?t the first option, and has anyone seen him run a pattern to get himself open? He?s more a zone guy, and a limited one at that.
In short, as many of his peers realize, if it?s a contract year, you need to post big stats, in case your own team doesn?t respect you. You need to make yourself known with other teams.
I would suspect if he leaves, he will go elsewhere and have a similar role, with a lousier team. If it was a sandlot game, would anyone pick him? Or would he be a next to last guy picked..
He should sign here, at least he has a role, and a solid organization.
Bailey was the 2nd most targeted receiver in Winnipeg. caught 63 of 95 passes thrown his way for 729 yards. 9 TD's and is hardly forgettable.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 14, 2023, 01:06:24 PM
Bailey was the 2nd most targeted receiver in Winnipeg. caught 63 of 95 passes thrown his way for 729 yards. 9 TD's and is hardly forgettable.
That stat is a bit misleading, when you look at targets per game, both Demski and Ellingson were targeted more frequently. Having said that 700 yds and 9 TDs is nothing to sneeze at, and his durability was a definite asset. Definitely not forgettable...
Bailey has been solid, with occasional brilliant plays woven in. He has been given the opportunity to be a top guy, just hasn't quite done it, yet.
Lawler, Schoen and Demski on the roster makes it even harder for Bailey to shine.
I can seem him seeking greener pastures, like Lucky did, in order to next level his game...
I like the dude, and we are stronger with him, but in the end, its what is best for the player that matters...
Agree that Bailey has been solid and we shouldn't forget that a great deal of his value was in clearing the way for others. He did more than his share of the heavy lifting so that others could get free.
John Hodge from 3downnation reporting there is a good chance QB Dakota Prukop will be back with the Bombers this season.
Quote from: Knocker42 on February 14, 2023, 02:42:53 PM
Agree that Bailey has been solid and we shouldn't forget that a great deal of his value was in clearing the way for others. He did more than his share of the heavy lifting so that others could get free.
Yup, under the radar as far as accolades go, but integral in the scheming. I'm sure Buck and Zach, and the rest of teh rec group would love to have him back.
But I really think someone is going to make him their "Lucky" guy...
Baily is a great piece but let's be honest in our core he is probably a 4th guy, how much is a 4th read guy really worth...sure he blocks among the best but we have other guys pretty good at that also. I think he is a contributor and on another team maybe he can be a 2a 2b type guy. He should probably be that and honestly we are probably not the best fit for him. If he comes back on a 4th read type contrcat that is great, but he should get more money elsewhere, that's just the reality in sports sometimes.
Quote from: RyGuy13 on February 14, 2023, 04:02:14 PM
John Hodge from 3downnation reporting there is a good chance QB Dakota Prukop will be back with the Bombers this season.
I wonder if Prukop has no interest trying out for one of the new leagues, or if they have no interest in QB's of his caliber. Other than Rutledge and Marino, I haven't heard of any other CFL player losses to these competitors.
I could see Sask making Bailey an offer, they have lost some receivers.
Dakota Prukop heading to the USFL according to Kyle Walters. Bombers will look for a new 3rd down QB.
Quote from: RyGuy13 on February 14, 2023, 05:53:06 PM
Dakota Prukop heading to the USFL according to Kyle Walters. Bombers will look for a new 3rd down QB.
Good for him, I guess.
Quote from: Jesse on February 14, 2023, 05:54:43 PM
Good for him, I guess.
He's probably hoping for a better chance to play actual QB.
The USFL can have him.
Quote from: RyGuy13 on February 14, 2023, 05:53:06 PM
Dakota Prukop heading to the USFL according to Kyle Walters. Bombers will look for a new 3rd down QB.
He wasn't free to explore the USFL until today. He may get a contract and he may not. So we'll see what happens with hi, However, we could sign another QB in the meantime, like O'Connor and he'll lose any offer that Winnipeg put on the table.
Still nothing recorded about Bailey or Adams.
Apparently no longer on Bomber radar: Maston, Taylor, Ellingson, Couture, Sayles and probably Prukop.
Quote from: RyGuy13 on February 14, 2023, 04:02:14 PM
John Hodge from 3downnation reporting there is a good chance QB Dakota Prukop will be back with the Bombers this season.
I guess John Hodge had his wires crossed on this one.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 14, 2023, 06:34:44 PM
I guess John Hodge had his wires crossed on this one.
USFL has already been filling rosters so he may not catch on down there.
Only about 97 potential free agents that haven't landed yet.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 14, 2023, 06:34:18 PM
Still nothing recorded about Bailey or Adams.
Apparently no longer on Bomber radar: Maston, Taylor, Ellingson, Couture, Sayles and probably Prukop.
Ellingson: Montreal
Couture: BC
Sayles: Hamilton
Purkop: USFL
Prukop is 3rd on the DC behind Brown, and our SY QB. So, I get it, there are better opportunities to play out there. And I wish him luck. It would be cool to see him tear up the USFL after being a #3 CFL QB... and a USFL gig is going to be closer to home and pay more.
Have to to whats best for you. now, next man up. O'Conner? Is there a UofM guy that might slot in?
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 14, 2023, 06:34:18 PM
Still nothing recorded about Bailey or Adams.
Apparently no longer on Bomber radar: Maston, Taylor, Ellingson, Couture, Sayles and probably Prukop.
Ellingson signed with MTL.
Sounds like Bailey is signing with the Stamps.
So, with Bailey to CGY, Prukop to USFL, Ellingson to MTL, that about finishes off the roster, right?
Keion Adams, Mercy Maston, Nic Taylor left on our board.
Rate the FA action, are we weaker, same or stronger than we ended the year?
The roster as it sits looks pretty darned good to me, and we still have no idea what is coming in camp. Do we have another Schoen coming in? Will one of the new DB's jump off the page? How have the injured rehabbed? Does Brown take the next step?
Being a betting favourite for the GC right now is good, lets hope that the horrible for betting odds come true.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 14, 2023, 08:07:28 PM
So, with Bailey to CGY, Prukop to USFL, Ellingson to MTL, that about finishes off the roster, right?
Keion Adams, Mercy Maston, Nic Taylor left on our board.
Rate the FA action, are we weaker, same or stronger than we ended the year?
The roster as it sits looks pretty darned good to me, and we still have no idea what is coming in camp. Do we have another Schoen coming in? Will one of the new DB's jump off the page? How have the injured rehabbed? Does Brown take the next step?
Being a betting favourite for the GC right now is good, lets hope that the horrible for betting odds come true.
We're weaker at the moment.
Adding Lawler is great but we lose Bailey and Ellingson.
Lost Couture but added Eli. Couture was the starter but Kolankowski was next up. Long term advantage, short term maybe?
No specific replacement for Sayles or Adams. So that's a TBD.
Losing Taylor and Maston was expected but depth hurt for the moment.
Aside from that the team is fairly intact overall.
Lawler and whoever (Agudosi, Mcrae or a rookie) is more dangerous than Ellingson and Bailey hence why we signed him
Sayles is a loss
Eli and Kolankowski offsets Couture
As for Maston and Taylor weve replaced their depth with Parker Holm and Lawrence who have all now had added experience so I count that as a plus
To me i think its a toss up over improvement but if we find an adequate repacement for sayles we will be better
Yes. Lawler is the best receiver in the league. Bailey and Ellingson are average at best. They both lack speed and we had too many similar players (possession receivers with limited speed but great route running and smarts) last year. Now we have a proper mix between blocking, route running and smarts (Schoen, Wolitarsky) along with deep threats (Lawler and Agudosi) and someone who just does a bit of everything (Demski).
Anyone who can't see that we've MASSIVELY improved in the receiving corps has hater-tinged glasses on. We probably have the best receivers in the league for Zack to throw to. IT's going to be fun to watch. Glad I have my tickets!
Quote from: Pete on February 14, 2023, 08:59:03 PM
Lawler and whoever (Agudosi, Mcrae or a rookie) is more dangerous than Ellingson and Bailey hence why we signed him
Sayles is a loss
Eli and Kolankowski offsets Couture
As for Maston and Taylor weve replaced their depth with Parker Holm and Lawrence who have all now had added experience so I count that as a plus
To me i think its a toss up over improvement but if we find an adequate repacement for sayles we will be better
We need a receiver. Could Adams make a return.
DT ?
Short yardage QB?
Quote from: Pigskin on February 14, 2023, 09:27:59 PM
We need a receiver. Could Adams make a return.
DT ?
Short yardage QB?
Certainly could use some backups, but I think the receiving core is set with Lawler, Schoen, Demski, Woli, BOLO and Agudosi.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 14, 2023, 08:36:06 PM
We're weaker at the moment.
Adding Lawler is great but we lose Bailey and Ellingson.
Lost Couture but added Eli. Couture was the starter but Kolankowski was next up. Long term advantage, short term maybe?
No specific replacement for Sayles or Adams. So that's a TBD.
Losing Taylor and Maston was expected but depth hurt for the moment.
Aside from that the team is fairly intact overall.
Kicker? :D
Dline needs some depth brought. Jeffcoat missed time with injury and Walker is unproven at best
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on February 14, 2023, 10:39:58 PM
Kicker? :D
I have no problem with Liegghio. It was his 1st year as a full time starter. Every TC we bring in competition but I don't expect a change. I imagine some posters will be complaining all TC and all season regardless of whether he improves or not.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 14, 2023, 10:00:23 PM
Certainly could use some backups, but I think the receiving core is set with Lawler, Schoen, Demski, Woli, BOLO and Agudosi.
For sure, would love to have kept Bailey but whatever, there?s only 1 football and we have more than enough quality receivers. Lawler makes a huge difference. We d have won the cup this year with him but will have to settle winning this year?s cup with him
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 14, 2023, 11:55:04 PM
I have no problem with Liegghio. It was his 1st year as a full time starter. Every TC we bring in competition but I don't expect a change. I imagine some posters will be complaining all TC and all season regardless of whether he improves or not.
After being a staunch supporter of his I am on the fence after last past season. I did not like his WSF and GC performances. It is between the ears with that guy.
Have the bombers signed McRae yet. Like to see him back. He's a very good receiver and a running back
Quote from: buckzumhoff on February 15, 2023, 12:51:03 AM
Have the bombers signed McRae yet. Like to see him back. He's a very good receiver and a running back
Not a FA, still under contract
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 14, 2023, 07:56:23 PM
Sounds like Bailey is signing with the Stamps.
Watching the Lawler interview he shout-outs Bailey big time (~10:00) saying he wants him back with WPG big time. Hopefully Bailey saw that before making his decision.
CGY signing Bailey would basically confirm Bailey is a good baller with plenty of life left. They might even increase his role vs WPG. I hope this one doesn't come back to bite us, especially since CGY probably got him "on sale". We must have really lowballed him :-\
Quote from: theaardvark on February 14, 2023, 08:07:28 PM
Keion Adams, Mercy Maston, Nic Taylor left on our board.
KW's interview already said Maston and Taylor are being let go. That probably means no offers on the table. If neither guy gets any offers anywhere, I would offer a "keep playing" lowball offer. Worst case is they get injured again and you recoup the SMS on the 6-game all season.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 14, 2023, 09:27:59 PM
We need a receiver. Could Adams make a return.
Could be. Rewatching the 1st 2 2022 games vs OTT I was sitting there thinking about that. If they put Darvin out to pasture and he still wants to play, you could do worse than having him around. And he'll qualify as FAKENAT as an old vet. He was making big plays in OTT before the whole team got disheartened. He especially did well with Masoli.
Quote from: buckzumhoff on February 15, 2023, 12:51:03 AM
Have the bombers signed McRae yet. Like to see him back. He's a very good receiver and a running back
I would have thought McCrae would be a gimmee if we don't sign Bailey. He knows the O and is dual-threat and may have potential. And is cheap.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 14, 2023, 08:36:06 PM
We're weaker at the moment.
Adding Lawler is great but we lose Bailey and Ellingson.
Lost Couture but added Eli. Couture was the starter but Kolankowski was next up. Long term advantage, short term maybe?
No specific replacement for Sayles or Adams. So that's a TBD.
Losing Taylor and Maston was expected but depth hurt for the moment.
Aside from that the team is fairly intact overall.
Other than Bailey, I don't see any of those as loses. And I certainly think our receiving core is as good or better than any of our last 3 Grey Cup runs.
Quote from: Jesse on February 15, 2023, 02:17:58 AM
Other than Bailey, I don't see any of those as loses. And I certainly think our receiving core is as good or better than any of our last 3 Grey Cup runs.
Nearly of those players were starters at the beginning of 2022. Experienced veterans. Go ahead and count the man games played as Bombers.
No doubt Lawler is better than Bailey but we don't really know what we have in Agudosi. Note that Lawler said he'd like to see Bailey return.
Sayles left for $200K? No immediate obvious replacement
Sayles 200 k way too much .no wonder they didn't sign him
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 14, 2023, 08:36:06 PM
We're weaker at the moment.
I think we're way stronger going into '23 than we were going into '22. No one is really going into TC injured this year. Our r. corps is vastly upgraded, no matter who takes the final IMP spot.
We're pretty set at DB, OL, WR, SB, QB, RB, DE, LB, ST... The only thing that remotely worries me is DT. I don't want to be weaker than last season at run-D. But I think the scouts will have another couple of surprises for us in TC.
The only pieces left are a SY QB, a DT (or 2), and that last WR/SB. That's basically it. Compared to previous years this is the "no worries" year. And the pieces we need are usually the easiest to fill.
Last year we were worried about so many things: BA hurt from day 1, could BO20 fill the shoes, could Schoen not suck like most IMP rookies, would Ellingson still have his mojo, would not having Kenny kill us, could Sayles compare to Stove, could Gray be a legit starter, would Prukop suck, would the new DBs be as good as Alford, would Rutledge be as good as Darby...
So many questions last off-season compared to this off-season. I'm not sure how you can compare the two. I'm not worried in the slightest.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 15, 2023, 03:12:40 AM
Nearly of those players were starters at the beginning of 2022. Experienced veterans. Go ahead and count the man games played as Bombers.
No doubt Lawler is better than Bailey but we don't really know what we have in Agudosi. Note that Lawler said he'd like to see Bailey return.
Sayles left for $200K? No immediate obvious replacement
All of Couture, Adams, Maston, and Taylor only played parts of the season.
We have in-house replacement for Couture and in the secondary. Walker is the next man up on the DL (much like Sayles before him).
I don't think we've downgraded anywhere.
Quote from: Jesse on February 15, 2023, 11:47:06 AM
All of Couture, Adams, Maston, and Taylor only played parts of the season.
We have in-house replacement for Couture and in the secondary. Walker is the next man up on the DL (much like Sayles before him).
I don't think we've downgraded anywhere.
Couture and Taylor were the starters when healthy. Obviously they missed a large part of the season. Couture today is still better than replacements.
Parker, Holm make be better than Taylor in the long run but a healthy Taylor was a top level DB.
Agudosi is a question mark that looked good 1 game. Hard to say he's an upgrade over Bailey or Ellingson.
Age, injury, up and coming players and SMS is why every team has to make business like decisions. I don't understand why you don't see a potential downgrade on defence in particular.
Note the key word being potential downgrade. We may find the next Schoen, Sayles or Alford in TC.
An interior D-line addition would be nice, IMO.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 15, 2023, 02:09:34 PM
Couture and Taylor were the starters when healthy. Obviously they missed a large part of the season. Couture today is still better than replacements.
Parker, Holm make be better than Taylor in the long run but a healthy Taylor was a top level DB.
Agudosi is a question mark that looked good 1 game. Hard to say he's an upgrade over Bailey or Ellingson.
Age, injury, up and coming players and SMS is why every team has to make business like decisions. I don't understand why you don't see a potential downgrade on defence in particular.
Note the key word being potential downgrade. We may find the next Schoen, Sayles or Alford in TC.
I think it is an open question whether Ricky Walker can replace Sayles without a drop off. So that is a potential downgrade. I don't think Adams was a significant contributor last year, so you can only really call that a change rather than a weakening. As far as Taylor and Maston, they weren't factors at all last year, so it doesn't make any sense to use them as a yardstick to measure whether we are stronger or weaker than last year. I suppose you can make an argument that our secondary might have been stronger in 2021, or 2019, but our secondary is just as strong as last year.
I think on offence, that it is fair to say Lawler is a significant upgrade over Ellingson (even though he was good when he played). I think Bailey'r replacement is the big question mark. I share your concern over Agudosi's small sample size. I think he is going to break our hearts. (he kind of reminds me of Titus Ryan from 2009 in that way). I don't think McCrae is a full-time starter in that spot, although he does have value as a Swiss Army knife. So that is the big question mark on offence. I think the drop off from Couture to Kolankowski was so small as to be insignificant. As they say, I would sure hate to have to live on the difference.
So I see only 2 question marks, with the added proviso that Leigghio is going to have to defend his placekicking job.
Quote from: the paw on February 15, 2023, 03:52:05 PM
I think it is an open question whether Ricky Walker can replace Sayles without a drop off. So that is a potential downgrade. I don't think Adams was a significant contributor last year, so you can only really call that a change rather than a weakening. As far as Taylor and Maston, they weren't factors at all last year, so it doesn't make any sense to use them as a yardstick to measure whether we are stronger or weaker than last year. I suppose you can make an argument that our secondary might have been stronger in 2021, or 2019, but our secondary is just as strong as last year.
I think on offence, that it is fair to say Lawler is a significant upgrade over Ellingson (even though he was good when he played). I think Bailey'r replacement is the big question mark. I share your concern over Agudosi's small sample size. I think he is going to break our hearts. (he kind of reminds me of Titus Ryan from 2009 in that way). I don't think McCrae is a full-time starter in that spot, although he does have value as a Swiss Army knife. So that is the big question mark on offence. I think the drop off from Couture to Kolankowski was so small as to be insignificant. As they say, I would sure hate to have to live on the difference.
So I see only 2 question marks, with the added proviso that Leigghio is going to have to defend his placekicking job.
A large part of my comment was that we've lost talented depth. Whether the 2nd year DB's are currently better than Taylor is somewhat of a question. Taylor was very good when he was healthy. He may have been more expensive a SMS hit but I'd say he was a very strong player in the secondary.
Same thing with Couture. Glad to have Eli back but Couture is still better than Kolankowski. So that's a downgrade made for SMS reasons.
I'm fine with the decisions made which were made for a combination of factors, largely financial.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 15, 2023, 04:52:07 PM
A large part of my comment was that we've lost talented depth. Whether the 2nd year DB's are currently better than Taylor is somewhat of a question. Taylor was very good when he was healthy. He may have been more expensive a SMS hit but I'd say he was a very strong player in the secondary.
Same thing with Couture. Glad to have Eli back but Couture is still better than Kolankowski. So that's a downgrade made for SMS reasons.
We are in a very strong position DB-wise compared to previous years where we always starting 1-2 rookies (read: crap-shoots). We'll have Holm and Parker going into year 2 and both looking decent (Parker could be full legit), and Houston will be back from injury (will be year 3 and was looking very fine). Add BA, Rose, Nichols, and even Darby and we don't have a single weak spot and have at least 1 non-rookie as depth.
Add in a probable new scout find wunderkind and we're sitting pretty.
P.S. You're bang-on about Taylor's capability, and I want him back, but the newer guys will do a good job and get better over the season. The only concern I would have is if it's Holm at Taylor's spot. I'm not sold on Holm, but he's not bad per se. I think we roll with Parker and Houston, with Holm as depth.
Couture better than Ko-man? I thought so too, but when Ko-man stepped in and played all those games I didn't notice any drop off at C.... except maybe that left A-gap with Gray. If that's more a C problem then that would make good proof. In any event, they patched that up by late season. My point is, I doubt we'll miss a beat with Ko-man at C and Couture gone, just like we all said "Chungh who" after much off-season panic and then 3 games without him.
Here are the remaining Blue Bomber Free Agency as of February 18, 2023.
Bomber free agents:
Defensive line
Keion Adams (A)
Defensive back
Mercy Maston (A)
Nick Taylor (A)
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 15, 2023, 07:00:11 PM
We are in a very strong position DB-wise compared to previous years where we always starting 1-2 rookies (read: crap-shoots). We'll have Holm and Parker going into year 2 and both looking decent (Parker could be full legit), and Houston will be back from injury (will be year 3 and was looking very fine). Add BA, Rose, Nichols, and even Darby and we don't have a single weak spot and have at least 1 non-rookie as depth.
Add in a probable new scout find wunderkind and we're sitting pretty.
P.S. You're bang-on about Taylor's capability, and I want him back, but the newer guys will do a good job and get better over the season. The only concern I would have is if it's Holm at Taylor's spot. I'm not sold on Holm, but he's not bad per se. I think we roll with Parker and Houston, with Holm as depth.
Couture better than Ko-man? I thought so too, but when Ko-man stepped in and played all those games I didn't notice any drop off at C.... except maybe that left A-gap with Gray. If that's more a C problem then that would make good proof. In any event, they patched that up by late season. My point is, I doubt we'll miss a beat with Ko-man at C and Couture gone, just like we all said "Chungh who" after much off-season panic and then 3 games without him.
I also think Parker will replace Taylor. While I'm expecting Houston at CB, I'm not quite sure where Lawrence fits in. He's a good player but Holm is very fast and probably better on ST's and can return kicks.
It's a long season and someone is always nicked a little so we'll see multiple combinations. As you suggested we might find a rookie that ends up as a star.
IIRC Couture started in the playoffs. IMO that makes him the better player but Kolankowski is not bad and will improve as well.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 18, 2023, 08:57:02 PM
IIRC Couture started in the playoffs. IMO that makes him the better player but Kolankowski is not bad and will improve as well.
Pretty sure Ko-man got banged up in one of the last 3 games? Looked pretty bad? Going by memory here. It made putting Couture in there easier, as otherwise you need to weigh recent game "hot hand" experience vs (rusty, still healing) vet presence. I'm not sure you pull the trigger on Couture in that case... probably, but it's not a sure thing.
Ko-man really did look good most of the season... UNLESS he's to blame for Gray's A-gap problem.
It's just like when The Goose left suddenly: Couture stepped in and it was basically a drop-in replacement with no drop-off. Ko-man felt like basically the same scenario. Couture has the edge, but it's so slight by week 5 we won't notice any difference or loss. We're winning bigly by saving the dough on Couture and slotting in Ko-man. (Not to diminish Couture's work, I was a big fan.)