Blue Bombers Forum

The Extra Point => Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum => Topic started by: theaardvark on December 21, 2022, 04:23:16 PM

Title: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: theaardvark on December 21, 2022, 04:23:16 PM
And so it starts...

Good luck to the lad, he deserves a shot, but come home soon...
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on December 21, 2022, 04:43:29 PM
Yeah, I wish him well but would certainly like him to be back in Winnipeg. Can't fault the lure of NFL money and playing in his own country. He'll be a star in the CFL though.

He has a workout with the Cardinals as well.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: the paw on December 21, 2022, 05:35:01 PM
I noticed Ford got a workout as well. 
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blue_or_die on December 21, 2022, 05:40:08 PM
Zero surprise.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on December 21, 2022, 05:46:28 PM
Not a surprise....still a little disappointing.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on December 21, 2022, 05:55:20 PM
Do not like to here this but inevitable. This league annoys me sometimes.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blue_gold_84 on December 21, 2022, 05:56:00 PM
Glad to see him get a shot in the NFL.

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on December 21, 2022, 05:55:20 PM
Do not like to here this but inevitable. This league annoys me sometimes.

What? ???
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: the paw on December 21, 2022, 07:38:30 PM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on December 21, 2022, 05:55:20 PM
Do not like to here this but inevitable. This league annoys me sometimes.

No need to get depressed until someone actually signs.  remember, Nichols and Rose ended up coming back, maybe Schoen will too....
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on December 21, 2022, 07:46:15 PM
Quote from: the paw on December 21, 2022, 07:38:30 PM
No need to get depressed until someone actually signs.  remember, Nichols and Rose ended up coming back, maybe Schoen will too....

I think the problem with fluid rosters is an issue. Not much of that really relates to losing players to the NFL. The CFL only loses about 6 or so each year. A few more get tryouts but not NFL deals.

The 1 year contracts for vets usually see about 60 players change teams in free agency.

I understand why these options are provided in the CBA but I can't say they don't create fan concerns.

If it was up to me I'd eliminate the NFL option window. It's not attracting a large number of better talent IMO which was part of the original premise.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blue_gold_84 on December 21, 2022, 07:48:14 PM
He worked out with the Vikings on Monday and the Cardinals yesterday.

I expect he'll get other workout offers from other team in the new year but until he's offered a contract, he remains a Blue Bomber.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: dd on December 21, 2022, 09:51:21 PM
He ll get tons of workouts but I doubt he signs and will be back with us next year. Time will tell
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on December 21, 2022, 10:28:00 PM
I?ll cross my fingers but I?m sure he will head to the money. CFL is annoying sometimes because for whatever reason good players don?t stick around. I mean our scouts found the guy after he toiled to no end and he was blessed with a MOP QB and championship level club. After one measly year could be poof gone. It sucks.

I just hope he is back! We need him.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blue_gold_84 on December 22, 2022, 12:10:02 AM
Good players go where the money is, which is the NFL. It's just an unfortunate symptom of being right next to the world's football factory, where every player wants to make it to the big show above all else.

I do wish him well in his NFL aspirations but I'd much rather see him back in blue and gold in 2023. He's just so fun to watch and is such an asset on offense.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Sec223 on December 22, 2022, 11:40:41 AM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on December 21, 2022, 05:55:20 PM
Do not like to here this but inevitable. This league annoys me sometimes.

That's the down fall of being a feeder league. I'm not expecting him to make it however he was a long shot to make it here.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on December 22, 2022, 03:34:21 PM
Quote from: Sec223 on December 22, 2022, 11:40:41 AM
That's the down fall of being a feeder league. I'm not expecting him to make it however he was a long shot to make it here.

I'm not sure if I agree with either of those points.

Like I said we only see 6 - 12 CFL players + 2 - 3 draft draft choices try to get an NFL deal each season. Even less than that stick beyond NFL TC's. I don't think that qualifies the CFL as a feeder league.

Bombers opened 2022 TC with 2 open starting roles at receiver. Adams to Ottawa and Lawler to Edmonton. IIRC we also had released Nelson as a depth player. In normal times a rookie player earning a starting role is difficult if the previous starters are returning. In 2022, we had rookies looking to win one spot. Ellingson was essentially a lock to take one open spot.

Like every rookie in any TC, skill and work ethic move you up the depth chart.

It's a little like draft choices success / failure. We wonder why a skilled player doesn't succeed in the NFL and while others that seem lesser hang on or have great careers.

In theory, Schoen is good enough to play in the NFL IMO. He needs the right team / opportunity to come forward.

The problem for the Bombers might be that we do not have a total resolution until NFL TC's make roster decisions.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Pete on December 22, 2022, 03:47:37 PM
One of the  issues has been the increase in size of the nfl practice rosters. Going from 10 pre  2020 to now 16. Thats an additional 192 positions. While its still not of lot of cflers who make it, still has an impact especially on signing players such as Dalton, Desjarlais, Streveler, and more.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on December 22, 2022, 04:11:59 PM
Quote from: Pete on December 22, 2022, 03:47:37 PM
One of the  issues has been the increase in size of the nfl practice rosters. Going from 10 pre  2020 to now 16. Thats an additional 192 positions. While its still not of lot of cflers who make it, still has an impact especially on signing players such as Dalton, Desjarlais, Streveler, and more.

Fair enough, it does create more opportunities and may have more impact over time. The XFL or USFL might start drawing some players. Exposure in the US market and competitive salaries to CFL ELC's with shorter seasons might draw some PR players that were in development mode?

I'm waiting to see if any of those surface in the spring leagues.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 22, 2022, 04:28:23 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on December 22, 2022, 04:11:59 PM
Fair enough, it does create more opportunities and may have more impact over time. The XFL or USFL might start drawing some players. Exposure in the US market and competitive salaries to CFL ELC's with shorter seasons might draw some PR players that were in development mode?

I'm waiting to see if any of those surface in the spring leagues.

One thing in the Bombers favour, Dalton mentioned he spent 2 years sitting on his couch waiting for an opportunity to play football, that might weigh heavily on his mind given the choice to continue waiting or to play football at a high level in the CFL and thrive.  He's a smart enough guy to realize with his multiple engineering degrees he will find monetary success once his playing days are over.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on December 22, 2022, 04:57:38 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 22, 2022, 04:28:23 PM
One thing in the Bombers favour, Dalton mentioned he spent 2 years sitting on his couch waiting for an opportunity to play football, that might weigh heavily on his mind given the choice to continue waiting or to play football at a high level in the CFL and thrive.  He's a smart enough guy to realize with his multiple engineering degrees he will find monetary success once his playing days are over.

Sure. LOL. Any of those pay $700K usd for an active roster role or the lure of that? Can't blame any player for chasing the dream whether he has multiple degrees or none. Even NFL PR money could be worth multiple CFL seasons.

I have no idea what offers he might receive or consider. He has until Feb 12th to decide or see how things work out.

Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: theaardvark on December 22, 2022, 05:02:29 PM
I think the dig on Dalton is that he is not fast off the line in 4 down ball, which makes him a perfect player for the waggle, because the top end is not an issue.

If that part of his play improves, then maybe he can make it down there.  Or if he has an OC that knows how to use him.

There is no doubt about his ability to catch and turn upfield.  Or his desire / drive / work ethic.

I truly hope he makes it back here for TC, or at least for the season start.  But if he sticks, well on him, and our scouts / coaches for giving him that shot.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blue_gold_84 on December 22, 2022, 05:06:23 PM
I agree on his lethality up here being heavily reliant on the waggle. Not to say that's a criticism of his game or skillset, to be sure - he's a prototypical CFL receiver who has the tools to light this league on fire going forward.

I just don't know if burst speed off the LOS - something that's very important in the NFL - is something that can be learned. It seems like you either have it or you don't.

Has anyone heard how his workouts have gone thus far?
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on December 22, 2022, 05:06:53 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on December 22, 2022, 05:02:29 PM
I think the dig on Dalton is that he is not fast off the line in 4 down ball, which makes him a perfect player for the waggle, because the top end is not an issue.

If that part of his play improves, then maybe he can make it down there.  Or if he has an OC that knows how to use him.

There is no doubt about his ability to catch and turn upfield.  Or his desire / drive / work ethic.

I truly hope he makes it back here for TC, or at least for the season start.  But if he sticks, well on him, and our scouts / coaches for giving him that shot.

I've heard that. It all sounds valid and may be why he didn't stick in the NFL without the waggle and one yard advantage.

That said, every NFL team doesn't have quality depth. Not every NFL team has the same offensive game plan and strengths.  Schoen can make difficult catches in traffic and break tackles. So he doesn't need to make a roster as a starter or he needs an OC that knows how to use him as you mentioned.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 22, 2022, 06:12:44 PM
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on December 22, 2022, 05:06:23 PM
I agree on his lethality up here being heavily reliant on the waggle. Not to say that's a criticism of his game or skillset, to be sure - he's a prototypical CFL receiver who has the tools to light this league on fire going forward.

I just don't know if burst speed off the LOS - something that's very important in the NFL - is something that can be learned. It seems like you either have it or you don't.

Has anyone heard how his workouts have gone thus far?

His height might also hamper him, he looks taller but he's only 6'-1".  When you come down to his measurable they are all average which could turn NFL teams off.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 22, 2022, 06:29:56 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on December 22, 2022, 04:57:38 PM
Sure. LOL. Any of those pay $700K usd for an active roster role or the lure of that? Can't blame any player for chasing the dream whether he has multiple degrees or none. Even NFL PR money could be worth multiple CFL seasons.

I have no idea what offers he might receive or consider. He has until Feb 12th to decide or see how things work out.

If Schoen wants to accept PR money and contribute nothing on the field, you have a point.  Of course the bigger payday is a draw for all, but if he realizes he wants to have fun playing football instead of waiting for a chance that may never materialize as Bighill decided, that might influence his decision.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on December 22, 2022, 06:41:15 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 22, 2022, 06:29:56 PM
If Schoen wants to accept PR money and contribute nothing on the field, you have a point.  Of course the bigger payday is a draw for all, but if he realizes he wants to have fun playing football instead of waiting for a chance that may never materialize as Bighill decided, that might influence his decision.

Like any player on a PR you are potentially 1 play in 1 game injury from making the AR as at least a back up. We all understand players want to play but even PR is not a bad gig for very good money.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 22, 2022, 07:15:01 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on December 22, 2022, 06:41:15 PM
Like any player on a PR you are potentially 1 play in 1 game injury from making the AR as at least a back up. We all understand players want to play but even PR is not a bad gig for very good money.

I think the NFL depth chart is deeper than that, for example the Vikings currently have 3 WR on their PR all waiting for their opportunity to play behind the 7 they have listed on their active and reserve rosters.  It's an extreme long-shot to ever set foot on an NFL field on game day, as the TV show "Hard Knocks" illustrates. 

Very good money equates to $207,000 USD for 18 weeks spent on the practice squad and his opportunity to earn even that is only a few short years, he has the potential to eclipse those overall earnings with a long-term CFL career if money was his main objective, which I suspect isn't the case.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on December 22, 2022, 08:19:13 PM
some in depth and interesting takes on Dalton's chances of cracking an NFL roster.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on December 22, 2022, 09:22:12 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 22, 2022, 07:15:01 PM
I think the NFL depth chart is deeper than that, for example the Vikings currently have 3 WR on their PR all waiting for their opportunity to play behind the 7 they have listed on their active and reserve rosters.  It's an extreme long-shot to ever set foot on an NFL field on game day, as the TV show "Hard Knocks" illustrates. 

Very good money equates to $207,000 USD for 18 weeks spent on the practice squad and his opportunity to earn even that is only a few short years, he has the potential to eclipse those overall earnings with a long-term CFL career if money was his main objective, which I suspect isn't the case.

NFL rosters are bigger but lots of players are injured during the course of their season. Same as in the CFL. Bombers lost every starting receiver and some back ups except Schoen for part of 2022.

$207K USD for 2 years is over $500K Cad and even the top receivers have a tough time earning that much. Players can move up and down the PR as well and / or be replaced outright. That happens in the CFL as well. Cuts, trades are always going on.

Players on PR's in all leagues often are expected to be most likely to replace a certain need ( injured player role ).  Don't know a lot about the Vikings in particular but starters may be approaching free agency and some PR players may or may not be asked back.

Rosters are fluid in the off season. That's a judgment a player has to make when signing with a given team. Changes in coaching and / or rosters impacts choices at times. CFL players doing that in their option year is probably more difficult than an actual free agent looking at an NFL team after their season is complete.

An additional note about Schoen is that he seems to be a very good blocker and that can't be underestimated either.

The reality is that several teams have expressed an interest in working him out. More than just 1 or 2. That increases his chances.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: ModAdmin on January 18, 2023, 02:27:38 AM
Still a ways to go but I am leaning toward the return of Dalton Schoen to the Bombers in 2023.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on January 18, 2023, 11:42:48 AM
Quote from: ModAdmin on January 18, 2023, 02:27:38 AM
Still a ways to go but I am leaning toward the return of Dalton Schoen to the Bombers in 2023.

Not allowing myself to think about it.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on January 18, 2023, 01:45:10 PM
Dalton was great for us but was particularly effective during scramble rules. With Collaros there were a ton of those opportunities. In the NFL you can't make a living off of that so he needs to win with route running, size and/or speed and I'm not sure he's capable of that.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on January 18, 2023, 03:31:40 PM
Quote from: ModAdmin on January 18, 2023, 02:27:38 AM
Still a ways to go but I am leaning toward the return of Dalton Schoen to the Bombers in 2023.
I hope your leaning is correct!
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 18, 2023, 03:41:44 PM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on January 18, 2023, 03:31:40 PM
I hope your leaning is correct!
;)
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: BLUEBOMBER on January 18, 2023, 05:18:09 PM
It's a pity that many CFL players get poached by the NFL if they have 1 or 2 good seasons up here.  It's the nature of sports I guess...
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 18, 2023, 05:37:24 PM
Quote from: BLUEBOMBER on January 18, 2023, 05:18:09 PM
It's a pity that many CFL players get poached by the NFL if they have 1 or 2 good seasons up here.  It's the nature of sports I guess...

....and they usually don't go on to accomplish anything noteworthy in the NFL, their playing careers become easily forgotten.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: DM83 on January 18, 2023, 06:51:39 PM
Their football careers may dry up, but making half a million a yr., and hanging out with the guys, sure beats working!
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 19, 2023, 12:55:55 AM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 18, 2023, 05:37:24 PM
....and they usually don't go on to accomplish anything noteworthy in the NFL, their playing careers become easily forgotten.

Zylstra has entered the chat.  (And Walker, and Duke, and ...)

I too think that Schoen doesn't really fit the mold of what the NFL wants.  He's not super fast, nor super big.  He doesn't lay out for balls.  His routes are so-so+.  What he does have is an incredible nose for the ball, football IQ of what the QB needs at that moment, a great sense of the coverage and its weakness, and great scramble rules instincts.  And good hands.  And like Bailey, he can take a hit and hang on.

We shouldn't rule out the possibility that he also has some special chemistry with Zach that he might not necessarily have with another team/QB.  Ellingson also had that great chemistry with Zach before his early-season injury.  Ellingson looked like he did 6 years ago.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on January 19, 2023, 01:17:46 AM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 19, 2023, 12:55:55 AM
Zylstra has entered the chat.  (And Walker, and Duke, and ...)

I too think that Schoen doesn't really fit the mold of what the NFL wants.  He's not super fast, nor super big.  He doesn't lay out for balls.  His routes are so-so+.  What he does have is an incredible nose for the ball, football IQ of what the QB needs at that moment, a great sense of the coverage and its weakness, and great scramble rules instincts.  And good hands.  And like Bailey, he can take a hit and hang on.

We shouldn't rule out the possibility that he also has some special chemistry with Zach that he might not necessarily have with another team/QB.  Ellingson also had that great chemistry with Zach before his early-season injury.  Ellingson looked like he did 6 years ago.

I agree but he is a better route runner than you describe. He is actually a great route runner for CFL standards and needs.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: theaardvark on January 19, 2023, 03:53:37 AM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 18, 2023, 05:37:24 PM
....and they usually don't go on to accomplish anything noteworthy in the NFL, their playing careers become easily forgotten.

Alex Singleton says "Hi"
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 19, 2023, 09:44:25 AM
Quote from: theaardvark on January 19, 2023, 03:53:37 AM
Alex Singleton says "Hi"

Has Singleton petered out in the NFL now?  It was 2 or 4 years back I was watching him start a few NFL games and was looking very good indeed.  Busting up O's and the NFL commentators were loathe to give him cred and/or mention the CFL in a positive light.

Too bad he didn't stay in the CFL, I think he could have eventually gotten as good as Solly.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on January 19, 2023, 11:52:06 AM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 19, 2023, 09:44:25 AM
Has Singleton petered out in the NFL now?  It was 2 or 4 years back I was watching him start a few NFL games and was looking very good indeed.  Busting up O's and the NFL commentators were loathe to give him cred and/or mention the CFL in a positive light.

Too bad he didn't stay in the CFL, I think he could have eventually gotten as good as Solly.


He has not petered out at all. He would be a one man wrecking crew if he was still here.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on January 19, 2023, 02:38:00 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 19, 2023, 09:44:25 AM
Has Singleton petered out in the NFL now?  It was 2 or 4 years back I was watching him start a few NFL games and was looking very good indeed.  Busting up O's and the NFL commentators were loathe to give him cred and/or mention the CFL in a positive light.

Too bad he didn't stay in the CFL, I think he could have eventually gotten as good as Solly.

not at all in fact he has carved out quite a nice year with the Denver Broncos I believe.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 19, 2023, 03:40:23 PM
Remember Cameron Wake who used to play for BC and also excelled in the NFL?   He was also a freak of nature in a Willie Jefferson kind of way
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on January 19, 2023, 04:20:54 PM
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on January 19, 2023, 03:40:23 PM
Remember Cameron Wake who used to play for BC and also excelled in the NFL?   He was also a freak of nature in a Willie Jefferson kind of way

Best defensive player we've probably ever seen in the CFL. He was unstoppable.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Pigskin on January 19, 2023, 04:24:45 PM
Dalton may not be as effective without the running start he gets in the CFL.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 19, 2023, 06:17:26 PM
Quote from: Pigskin on January 19, 2023, 04:24:45 PM
Dalton may not be as effective with out the run start he gets in the CFL.

There's no doubt in my mind the waggle benefits his skillset immensely. He's a prototypical CFL receiver, IMO.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Horseman on January 19, 2023, 08:56:30 PM
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 19, 2023, 06:17:26 PM
There's no doubt in my mind the waggle benefits his skillset immensely. He's a prototypical CFL receiver, IMO.

Yes, I agree the waggle helps Dalton get separation from the DB as he is moving at full speed at the snap of the ball, not so in the NFL.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: dd on January 21, 2023, 03:03:40 AM
Quote from: Jesse on January 19, 2023, 04:20:54 PM
Best defensive player we've probably ever seen in the CFL. He was unstoppable.
Hands down.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on January 21, 2023, 02:06:16 PM
No news on Schoen may be good news for the Bombers. While I wish him well in his NFL efforts, I'd be pleased to see him return to the Bombers in 2023. Sort of waiting for the shoe to drop or not to drop over the next few weeks. No idea what will happen.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on January 21, 2023, 03:29:05 PM
Maybe that is why there has not been a Demski announcement they are waiting to see what happens to Schoen first?
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on January 21, 2023, 04:12:27 PM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on January 21, 2023, 03:29:05 PM
Maybe that is why there has not been a Demski announcement they are waiting to see what happens to Schoen first?

I don't think there is any connection in those two issues. Demski is potential free agent # 1 for the Bombers. That fact he's also a starting Canadian just makes that even more critical. If Schoen does does return he's still under contract for 2023. They might try to extend him but that's a different issue overall.


Demski may have been re-signed already and not announced. Announcements are a PR thing and don't necessarily get done in real time when they happen. However, as the free agency period gets closer we'll see more activity around the league. In that sense what happens with Schoen is beyond the teams direct control.

I can't imagine he won't return or even think about not returning. Pay him accordingly. Sounds simple enough.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 21, 2023, 07:57:13 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on January 21, 2023, 04:12:27 PM
I don't think there is any connection in those two issues. Demski is potential free agent # 1 for the Bombers. That fact he's also a starting Canadian just makes that even more critical. If Schoen does does return he's still under contract for 2023. They might try to extend him but that's a different issue overall.


Demski may have been re-signed already and not announced. Announcements are a PR thing and don't necessarily get done in real time when they happen. However, as the free agency period gets closer we'll see more activity around the league. In that sense what happens with Schoen is beyond the teams direct control.

I can't imagine he won't return or even think about not returning. Pay him accordingly. Sounds simple enough.

I suspect the signing of Ellingson may be tied in with Schoen's availability, if he latches on with an NFL team they bring Ellingson back, if he doesn't I can see them moving on from him.  I think it's important to provide Collaros with  receivers he clearly favours as they're already on the same page and don't have to be reprogrammed, it's the easy solution.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on January 21, 2023, 08:46:41 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on January 21, 2023, 04:12:27 PM
I don't think there is any connection in those two issues. Demski is potential free agent # 1 for the Bombers. That fact he's also a starting Canadian just makes that even more critical. If Schoen does does return he's still under contract for 2023. They might try to extend him but that's a different issue overall.


Demski may have been re-signed already and not announced. Announcements are a PR thing and don't necessarily get done in real time when they happen. However, as the free agency period gets closer we'll see more activity around the league. In that sense what happens with Schoen is beyond the teams direct control.

I can't imagine he won't return or even think about not returning. Pay him accordingly. Sounds simple enough.

I am just searching for answers why Demski is not signed and announced yet?
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blueandgoldguy on January 21, 2023, 08:55:12 PM
I have been hearing that Demski is already signed and they are just waiting to make an announcement to the press.  They tend to stagger these announcements over several days or weeks so each signee has their time in the limelight so to speak as opposed to announcing several recent signings on the same day.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: bwiser on January 25, 2023, 12:05:21 AM
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on January 21, 2023, 08:55:12 PM
I have been hearing that Demski is already signed and they are just waiting to make an announcement to the press.  They tend to stagger these announcements over several days or weeks so each signee has their time in the limelight so to speak as opposed to announcing several recent signings on the same day.
I think you are right. Mitchell signed with Hamilton today so maybe the Bombers want to announce on a day that is quieter in the CFL.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 25, 2023, 03:54:26 PM
Quote from: bwiser on January 25, 2023, 12:05:21 AM
I think you are right. Mitchell signed with Hamilton today so maybe the Bombers want to announce on a day that is quieter in the CFL.
Lets hope....we can't simply assume his signing is a fait accompli albeit I really believe he wants to remain a Bomber
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: the paw on January 25, 2023, 05:18:41 PM
Shaq Evans getting no love from Riders.  If Schoen signs in the NFL is Evans a consideration?
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on January 25, 2023, 06:39:53 PM
Quote from: the paw on January 25, 2023, 05:18:41 PM
Shaq Evans getting no love from Riders.  If Schoen signs in the NFL is Evans a consideration?
I am on the fence about him. Was it him or Fajardo? Or both? Plus correct me if I am wrong but he was injured a lot last couple years?
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 25, 2023, 07:37:59 PM
Quote from: the paw on January 25, 2023, 05:18:41 PM
Shaq Evans getting no love from Riders.  If Schoen signs in the NFL is Evans a consideration?

Hope not, he's a grumpy malcontent.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: the paw on January 25, 2023, 09:42:02 PM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on January 25, 2023, 06:39:53 PM
I am on the fence about him. Was it him or Fajardo? Or both? Plus correct me if I am wrong but he was injured a lot last couple years?

He was injured in 2021 and missed half the year.  He didn't look entirely comfortable in 2022, but he would have had close to a 1000 yd season if he hadn't had a mid season injury.  I put down part of the dip to Fajardos uselessness, but part of it was Shaqs confidence.

He put up 1300 yards in 2019, and he won't be super expensive.  Who knows if he stays health though.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on January 25, 2023, 10:43:09 PM
Quote from: the paw on January 25, 2023, 09:42:02 PM
He was injured in 2021 and missed half the year.  He didn't look entirely comfortable in 2022, but he would have had close to a 1000 yd season if he hadn't had a mid season injury.  I put down part of the dip to Fajardos uselessness, but part of it was Shaqs confidence.

He put up 1300 yards in 2019, and he won't be super expensive.  Who knows if he stays health though.
Not sure 2019 was a long long time ago!
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: gobombersgo on January 26, 2023, 01:30:50 AM
If Schoen does come back to the Bombers does the team renegotiate his contract for 2023?
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: the paw on January 26, 2023, 02:39:39 AM
Quote from: gobombersgo on January 26, 2023, 01:30:50 AM
If Schoen does come back to the Bombers does the team renegotiate his contract for 2023?

Not really.  I think what they typically would do is leave the 2023 contract as is, and extend him for extra years at a higher salary.  But they can give a signing bonus for the extension, and make it payable in 2023, so it has the same effect as a new contract.

I think they do it this way to avoid opening contracts midway after a good season.  Of course its a double standard, because teams don't hesitate to restructure when they want a guy to take a haircut.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 26, 2023, 04:35:25 PM
He tried out for quite a few teams....you'd have thought by now he would have an offer on the table or perhaps not.    As much as I want him to succeed personally the Bomber fan in me would be overjoyed should he return to our locker room.....hopefully with a decent contract or signing bonus as he so deserves it!!
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Pete on January 26, 2023, 04:47:48 PM
I think it would be very beneficial if we were to renogiate his contract to give him 3 years say at 150k.
while it would likely mean an extra 65-85k this year it gives us a chance to have him with collaris for the length of his contract It would  lessen the impact over the last 2 years where if he went to free agency he'd likely be closer to 200k.
So either way the dollars would be close but wed have him signed. Added benifet for the last two years would be cap savings of 25-50k each year
From Shoens point of view he gets paid right away.

                                                                                     yr 1     yr2   yr3  
Scenario 1 extend ..(asssuming hes at approx 75k now) = 75K +  175   + 175  =425k

Scenario 2 renegotiate =150+150+150 =450k

Scenario 3  wait til contract expires and he goes to free agency= 75+ 200K+200k=475
the problem with #3 is it may not be with the bombers for yrs 2&3
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 26, 2023, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: Pete on January 26, 2023, 04:47:48 PM
I think it would be very beneficial if we were to renogiate his contract to give him 3 years say at 150k.
while it would likely mean an extra 65-85k this year it gives us a chance to have him with collaris for the length of his contract It would  lessen the impact over the last 2 years where if he went to free agency he'd likely be closer to 200k.
So either way the dollars would be close but wed have him signed. Added benifet for the last two years would be cap savings of 25-50k each year
From Shoens point of view he gets paid right away.

                                                                                     yr 1     yr2   yr3  
Scenario 1 extend ..(asssuming hes at approx 75k now) = 75K +  175   + 175  =425k

Scenario 2 renegotiate =150+150+150 =450k

Scenario 3  wait til contract expires and he goes to free agency= 75+ 200K+200k=475
the problem with #3 is it may not be with the bombers for yrs 2&3

This is what the Elks did recently with Dillon Mitchell who showed up last July, they threw away his rookie contract after playing 8 games and signed him to a 2 year deal at $150K/yr. at the duration of last season.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: pjrocksmb on January 27, 2023, 02:12:07 AM
Blank cheque
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Pigskin on January 27, 2023, 03:41:05 AM
Blank cheques are what kills teams. If we were ever going to write a BC, it would have been last year for Lawler. Didn't happen, and it won't happen this year. 
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 27, 2023, 04:59:20 AM
Quote from: Pete on January 26, 2023, 04:47:48 PM
I think it would be very beneficial if we were to renogiate his contract to give him 3 years say at 150k.

I don't think you give a 2nd year IMP $150; not even the ROY.  There may have been other factors that made him look better than he might perform in, say, 2023.  Many of his TDs were on scramble panics.  You can't count on those each game.  And teams might adjust.

Need to also ask: How good were his routes?  His speed?  % made contested catches?  Circus catches?

I think you bump him up for 2023 as a reward, but you can save the "big money" contract for 2024 when he's shown he's a baller for 2 straight seasons.

If we decide to pay NAT uber-vet Demski $200, then I'm not sure how you justify $150 for Schoen.  And if you pay Schoen $150, you'll have vet Bailey flipping out he's only earning <$150.

We're going to run out of money for the WR/SB corps.  Paying Demski $200 might mean we have to lose Ellingson and Bailey just so we can field some 1st/2nd year "nobody" IMPs on ELC(ish) to stay in-budget.  I really don't see how we'll afford any vet "FA splash" guy at all in 2023.  I think we roll with who we have and fill any departures with ELC IMPs and ELC DPs.  And that's ok.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: ModAdmin on January 27, 2023, 05:28:51 AM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 27, 2023, 04:59:20 AM
I don't think you give a 2nd year IMP $150; not even the ROY.  There may have been other factors that made him look better than he might perform in, say, 2023.  Many of his TDs were on scramble panics.  You can't count on those each game.  And teams might adjust.

Need to also ask: How good were his routes?  His speed?  % made contested catches?  Circus catches?

I think you bump him up for 2023 as a reward, but you can save the "big money" contract for 2024 when he's shown he's a baller for 2 straight seasons.

If we decide to pay NAT uber-vet Demski $200, then I'm not sure how you justify $150 for Schoen. 
And if you pay Schoen $150, you'll have vet Bailey flipping out he's only earning <$150.

We're going to run out of money for the WR/SB corps.  Paying Demski $200 might mean we have to lose Ellingson and Bailey just so we can field some 1st/2nd year "nobody" IMPs on ELC(ish) to stay in-budget.  I really don't see how we'll afford any vet "FA splash" guy at all in 2023.  I think we roll with who we have and fill any departures with ELC IMPs and ELC DPs.  And that's ok.


I dunno about your "questions" Tecno.  Facts are...

Schoen led the league in...

He was #1 in Receiving - 1441 yards
He played 18 games plus playoffs
He led the league in average yards per catch - 20.6 yards
He led the league in TD's with 16
He was ROY

That is his results and pretty much says it all.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 27, 2023, 05:57:06 AM
Quote from: ModAdmin on January 27, 2023, 05:28:51 AM
I dunno about your "questions" Tecno.  Facts are...

Schoen led the league in...

He was #1 in Receiving - 1441 yards
He played 18 games plus playoffs
He led the league in average yards per catch - 20.6 yards
He led the league in TD's with 16
He was ROY

That is his results and pretty much says it all.
If we don't ante up assuming we have the opportunity....some other team will.    I don't think it was a fluke last season scramble routes or not.....
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 27, 2023, 07:43:56 AM
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on January 27, 2023, 05:57:06 AM
If we don't ante up assuming we have the opportunity....some other team will.    I don't think it was a fluke last season scramble routes or not.....

Not true.  He's on IMP ELC, I do believe, and I also do believe that IMP ELC is mandated 2 years.  No?  He can go NFL (or other *FL) or quit.  He cannot just up and go to another CFL team.

That said (assuming I'm correct and not getting confused with DPs), it doesn't mean we can't reward him for his production, past and future.  But 150k??  I still think that's wacky for a 2nd year.

And I'm not saying Schoen is only winning on scramble.  I love the kid and he has huge talent.  But he's no Lawler.  He's young and will probably do great things as he develops.  But from what I've seen, I wouldn't in any way bet that he'll be the next Stegall.  It's mostly for the reason that how he does it seems unconventional: and "unconventional" doesn't always mean long term massive success.  Sometimes it spells the opposite.

Quote from: ModAdmin on January 27, 2023, 05:28:51 AM
Schoen led the league in...

He was #1 in Receiving - 1441 yards
He played 18 games plus playoffs
He led the league in average yards per catch - 20.6 yards
He led the league in TD's with 16
He was ROY

Ya ya.  I know.  But you must admit his style of getting all those stats was a bit unconventional.  He just never felt to me like a "normal" receiver.  I don't know, maybe I have to rewatch the season focussing on Schoen.  He was always like the magical kid, magically in the right place at the right time.

You think KW ponies up $150 for him?  Wouldn't that be approx double his 2022 ELC $$?

I will reiterate: no opponent team said "we must stop Schoen".  It was Demski.  Maybe Demski being such a threat is why Schoen was open so much?  Now, in 2023, maybe D's will say "we must stop Schoen"; but they didn't in 2022.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Sec223 on January 27, 2023, 12:18:39 PM
Many of his yards were ad lib routes that are more of a CFL thing not NFL.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: bunker on January 27, 2023, 01:28:40 PM
I think Schoen is legit and a bargain even at 150,000. He has great hands and rarely drops anything. He has underrated speed and is a legitimate deep threat. He is very smart, learned the playbook quickly, and gained ZC?s trust.  He did a lot of his damage while Ellingson was out, a situation where he was likely getting a lot of attention from defences. Also a good blocker. And the most under rated ability is availability. He does not seem to get injured. Many other elite CFL receivers were out for extended periods of time.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 27, 2023, 01:56:30 PM
The mental gymnastics some posters demonstrate on this forum... Comical.

Schoen is a phenom and will terrorize this league for a long time. And he'll be remunerated accordingly.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on January 27, 2023, 02:30:44 PM
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 27, 2023, 01:56:30 PM
The mental gymnastics some posters demonstrate on this forum... Comical.

Schoen is a phenom and will terrorize this league for a long time. And he'll be remunerated accordingly.

There is a legit question about his contract this year, though. I think it's pretty standard to play out the deal and then re-sign for larger on the subsequent contract, no?
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Pigskin on January 27, 2023, 03:05:06 PM
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 27, 2023, 01:56:30 PM
The mental gymnastics some posters demonstrate on this forum... Comical.

Schoen is a phenom and will terrorize this league for a long time. And he'll be remunerated accordingly.

Agree.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Pigskin on January 27, 2023, 03:08:48 PM
Quote from: Jesse on January 27, 2023, 02:30:44 PM
There is a legit question about his contract this year, though. I think it's pretty standard to play out the deal and then re-sign for larger on the subsequent contract, no?

He should play out this deal and then re-sign. However, I think the Bombers will bump up his contract this year, and then try to extend him for 2024 and 2025.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: theaardvark on January 27, 2023, 03:35:39 PM
If he does not get an NFL sniff, then we need to extend him... Give him $125/150 this year (by adding a signing bonus to the extension), and then $175k-200k for the next 2 years (some guaranteed).

That sounds fair to both parties, and gives him a good salary going into his prime contract area, with 4 years of CFL stats under his belt, he will be able to write his own ticket if he keeps up the good work.  If the league catches up to him, then he's had 3 years of above average salary.

 
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 27, 2023, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: Jesse on January 27, 2023, 02:30:44 PM
There is a legit question about his contract this year, though. I think it's pretty standard to play out the deal and then re-sign for larger on the subsequent contract, no?

I agree. But I think the answer is pretty clear. Based on his 2022 production, one could make the case for him getting a bonus or something similar to tack onto his 2023 salary. At the very least, IMO. He made history as a rookie both with this franchise and the league. That's remarkably significant and he checks off every box in terms of his tangibles and intangibles as a player and teammate. I'm not sure what's feasible, both in terms of contract particulars and the Bombers' SMS implications for 2023, but it could be a good faith gesture on the part of the organization to at least open a dialogue regarding a restructured 2023 contract and potentially extending him beyond this upcoming season.

In terms of extending him, one could also make the case in doing so with an increased salary and bonuses based on what he's done and his performance going forward. Again, how that could shake out depends on multiple factors but the team has clearly found a exceptional gem and potential franchise receiver, so making the investment in his future with the team seems pragmatic.

I don't think this particular situation is one in which you let his rookie contract play out based on what I've stated above.

Quote from: Pigskin on January 27, 2023, 03:08:48 PM
He should play out this deal and then re-sign. However, I think the Bombers will bump up his contract this year, and then try to extend him for 2024 and 2025.

Agreed. Even bumping him up through 2024 with a restructured 2023 salary/incentives just seems like the reasonable thing to do. I trust Walters' judgment in working out the details and doing what's best for the team and for Schoen.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on January 27, 2023, 03:59:33 PM
I like the idea of extending him and adding a signing bonus for this year - but I guess it depends on what out cap looks like.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: theaardvark on January 27, 2023, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: Jesse on January 27, 2023, 03:59:33 PM
I like the idea of extending him and adding a signing bonus for this year - but I guess it depends on what out cap looks like.

Schoen was the top receiver in the league last year, as a rookie. 

This is a player you work the cap around, not one that you let get away because of the cap...  unless he won't extend (no extension, no 2023 bump).  In that case, he bets on himself having a great sophomore year, and going after Lawler numbers.  But, should the league figure him out, and/or he gets injured, you can lose betting on yourself.  Safe bet is to get a safe, comfortable deal... takes away the upside, sure, but eliminates the downside... especially now with guaranteed money.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on January 27, 2023, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on January 27, 2023, 04:03:21 PM
Schoen was the top receiver in the league last year, as a rookie. 

This is a player you work the cap around, not one that you let get away because of the cap...  unless he won't extend (no extension, no 2023 bump).  In that case, he bets on himself having a great sophomore year, and going after Lawler numbers.  But, should the league figure him out, and/or he gets injured, you can lose betting on yourself.  Safe bet is to get a safe, comfortable deal... takes away the upside, sure, but eliminates the downside... especially now with guaranteed money.

We have a lot of players to "work the cap around" that have already been signed. It just depends, is all.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 27, 2023, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 27, 2023, 07:43:56 AM
Not true.  He's on IMP ELC, I do believe, and I also do believe that IMP ELC is mandated 2 years.  No?  He can go NFL (or other *FL) or quit.  He cannot just up and go to another CFL team.

That said (assuming I'm correct and not getting confused with DPs), it doesn't mean we can't reward him for his production, past and future.  But 150k??  I still think that's wacky for a 2nd year.

And I'm not saying Schoen is only winning on scramble.  I love the kid and he has huge talent.  But he's no Lawler.  He's young and will probably do great things as he develops.  But from what I've seen, I wouldn't in any way bet that he'll be the next Stegall.  It's mostly for the reason that how he does it seems unconventional: and "unconventional" doesn't always mean long term massive success.  Sometimes it spells the opposite.

Ya ya.  I know.  But you must admit his style of getting all those stats was a bit unconventional.  He just never felt to me like a "normal" receiver.  I don't know, maybe I have to rewatch the season focussing on Schoen.  He was always like the magical kid, magically in the right place at the right time.

You think KW ponies up $150 for him?  Wouldn't that be approx double his 2022 ELC $$?

I will reiterate: no opponent team said "we must stop Schoen".  It was Demski.  Maybe Demski being such a threat is why Schoen was open so much?  Now, in 2023, maybe D's will say "we must stop Schoen"; but they didn't in 2022.

What made our offence better last season was a better balance between run and pass.   In years past we had Harris and if teams stopped Harris we usually ended up losing.   Last season we had Demski with 10 TDs and Dalton with 16.    When Ellingson started the season he was on his way to leading the league in passing yardage and when he was hurt Dalton suddenly became more available and he has a nose for the end zone.   our passing and running were well balanced and Brady made a 1000 yards on top of it. 

Schoen's blocking is also a factor and as for becoming a Milt Stegall well there was only ever one like him....albeit he never won a championship either.  The intangibles are his exceptional intelligence and team first attitudes.....plus he's durable.    I don't often disagree with you Techno but imho, we should do whatever it takes to sign him because he's a winner and a team first guy who incidentally happened to lead the league in passing yardage and TDs in his first season!!   He's also clutch!    
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 27, 2023, 04:41:34 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 27, 2023, 07:43:56 AM
Not true.  He's on IMP ELC, I do believe, and I also do believe that IMP ELC is mandated 2 years.  No?  He can go NFL (or other *FL) or quit.  He cannot just up and go to another CFL team.

That said (assuming I'm correct and not getting confused with DPs), it doesn't mean we can't reward him for his production, past and future.  But 150k??  I still think that's wacky for a 2nd year.

And I'm not saying Schoen is only winning on scramble.  I love the kid and he has huge talent.  But he's no Lawler.  He's young and will probably do great things as he develops.  But from what I've seen, I wouldn't in any way bet that he'll be the next Stegall.  It's mostly for the reason that how he does it seems unconventional: and "unconventional" doesn't always mean long term massive success.  Sometimes it spells the opposite.

Ya ya.  I know.  But you must admit his style of getting all those stats was a bit unconventional.  He just never felt to me like a "normal" receiver.  I don't know, maybe I have to rewatch the season focussing on Schoen.  He was always like the magical kid, magically in the right place at the right time.

You think KW ponies up $150 for him?  Wouldn't that be approx double his 2022 ELC $$?

I will reiterate: no opponent team said "we must stop Schoen".  It was Demski.  Maybe Demski being such a threat is why Schoen was open so much?  Now, in 2023, maybe D's will say "we must stop Schoen"; but they didn't in 2022.


Scramble rules are legitimate, Zach is not a QB that sits in the pocket patiently looking through his progressions unless he has all day.  He's going to look at 1 or 2 reads and either throw the ball or move the pocket, rollout and wing it. 

Schoen came to the right place, perhaps he wouldn't be as successful in another system with a different QB, but who really cares?  $150K is a good bump, it'll show him respect and they can deal with a bigger number when that contract expires.  Fact is if Ellingson stayed healthy half those balls would have been going to him and Schoen wouldn't have put up such high numbers.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on January 27, 2023, 05:19:24 PM
In theory I wouldn't mind seeing Schoen with an extension and a significant raise. The issue is what does that cost us elsewhere across the roster. Now if we choose to give him Ellingson money and start Aguodosi, than that's a financial trade off. Agudosi must still be on an ELC.

OTOH we could give that extra money ( from Ellingson ) to Demski while switching Agudosi onto the roster.

Bottom line is that we can't give Demski, Schoen and Bailey all large raises even if we want to. The money has to come from somewhere and where that could be is not clear.

We might save a little SMS allowing Couture to hit free agency with Eli on a lower SMS deal. How much lower is a question mark though. Bryant, Hardrick and Neufeld all got new contracts. So I don't see any large savings there is at all.

Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on January 27, 2023, 05:35:45 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on January 27, 2023, 05:19:24 PM
In theory I wouldn't mind seeing Schoen with an extension and a significant raise. The issue is what does that cost us elsewhere across the roster. Now if we choose to give him Ellingson money and start Aguodosi, than that's a financial trade off. Agudosi must still be on an ELC.

OTOH we could give that extra money ( from Ellingson ) to Demski while switching Agudosi onto the roster.

Bottom line is that we can't give Demski, Schoen and Bailey all large raises even if we want to. The money has to come from somewhere and where that could be is not clear.

We might save a little SMS allowing Couture to hit free agency with Eli on a lower SMS deal. How much lower is a question mark though. Bryant, Hardrick and Neufeld all got new contracts. So I don't see any large savings there is at all.



I'd keep Schoen on the ELC unless he wants to sign for two more years beyond this upcoming season -even then, not 100% sure I would. We've got lots of big contracts. They need to be offset with cheaper deals that overperform and that's what Schoen's deal does. We would also be paying Schoen at peak value. This time next year he may not be quite so on top of the world, and if he is, then you just back up the truck like you'd have to this year.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 27, 2023, 06:12:57 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on January 27, 2023, 05:19:24 PM
In theory I wouldn't mind seeing Schoen with an extension and a significant raise. The issue is what does that cost us elsewhere across the roster. Now if we choose to give him Ellingson money and start Aguodosi, than that's a financial trade off. Agudosi must still be on an ELC.

OTOH we could give that extra money ( from Ellingson ) to Demski while switching Agudosi onto the roster.

Bottom line is that we can't give Demski, Schoen and Bailey all large raises even if we want to. The money has to come from somewhere and where that could be is not clear.

We might save a little SMS allowing Couture to hit free agency with Eli on a lower SMS deal. How much lower is a question mark though. Bryant, Hardrick and Neufeld all got new contracts. So I don't see any large savings there is at all.

As useful as Bailey is, I don't see him getting a big raise, maybe a $10K bump but that's about it, I think he'd end up a 3rd or 4th receiver on most teams.  He may well move on to improve his payday. 
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2023, 07:15:48 PM
I would like us to be proactive and sign him even if we have to renegotiate current year. Over the past few years we've tried to sign top recievers with limited s uccess. The price is only going to get higher. We'd likely wait to see what this year's free agency brings to recievers position as there are a number of decent ones
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 28, 2023, 04:42:34 AM
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 27, 2023, 05:35:45 PM
I'd keep Schoen on the ELC unless he wants to sign for two more years beyond this upcoming season -even then, not 100% sure I would. We've got lots of big contracts. They need to be offset with cheaper deals that overperform and that's what Schoen's deal does. We would also be paying Schoen at peak value. This time next year he may not be quite so on top of the world, and if he is, then you just back up the truck like you'd have to this year.

Yes, that's what I was saying.  If he's on 2yr ELC (and no one said he isn't), and if NFL doesn't care about him, then why bump him at all.  And why massive-bump him to top-10% pay in the league?  Ya, feelz, yada yada.  I like the idea of a small bump and/or bonuses.  I like the idea of promising him more in the future.  If he stays on his trajectory he probably will earn $180 in his year 3.  Why not $120 (all in) in year 2, and $180 year 3, and probably over $200 in year 4?

Look at Bailey... I bet he was on the ELC for his first 2 years.  I bet Lawler was close to it too (even though he didn't rookie with us).  Ya, Schoen>Bailey, but $150 for Schoen in year 2 is going to make a lot of present and future IMP ELCs a bit miffed.  Can anyone think of another year 2 ELC guy on any team that has been offered big money in year 2??  Excluding Rourke, as a QB is a different situation.

At the end of the day, I don't think Schoen will ever be Lawler, nor she he earn as much.  Lawler has level-upped to crazy level and makes catches I've never once seen Schoen make.  They are completely different receivers, completely different styles, that can't even be compared.  It doesn't mean Schoen can't be a long-term great for us.  He can certainly be a league-wide top-5 receiver for many years.  But to bump him up to crazy money in year 2 when even Lawler and other greats didn't get treated like that??

Lastly, I'm trying to think of a CFL player in the last decade to compare Schoen to... I'm drawing blanks.  Who had this kid's style?  Surely there must be someone.  I was thinking Cahoon, but Cahoon would often make Lawler/Dressler circus catches.  Schoen is unique.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 28, 2023, 04:49:26 AM
Quote from: bunker on January 27, 2023, 01:28:40 PM
I think Schoen is legit and a bargain even at 150,000. He has great hands and rarely drops anything. He has underrated speed and is a legitimate deep threat. He is very smart, learned the playbook quickly, and gained ZC?s trust.  He did a lot of his damage while Ellingson was out, a situation where he was likely getting a lot of attention from defences. Also a good blocker. And the most under rated ability is availability. He does not seem to get injured. Many other elite CFL receivers were out for extended periods of time.

All great points.  All totally true.  He provides a unique skillset that isn't necessarily a traditional one.  Other WR/SB aspects I think are still up in the air, and I'm not surprised you left them out.  It's not bashing the kid to look at what he clearly excels at vs what he may be working on (or even bad at).

I would love to see the NFL report brief on what they think of Schoen... I bet that would confirm a lot of what I'm/we're saying.  I guarantee you there's enough "bad" on that report to tell us why 10 NFL teams haven't made him a $1M offer yet.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Pete on January 28, 2023, 05:53:03 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 28, 2023, 04:42:34 AM
Yes, that's what I was saying.  If he's on 2yr ELC (and no one said he isn't), and if NFL doesn't care about him, then why bump him at all.  And why massive-bump him to top-10% pay in the league?  Ya, feelz, yada yada.  I like the idea of a small bump and/or bonuses.  I like the idea of promising him more in the future.  If he stays on his trajectory he probably will earn $180 in his year 3.  Why not $120 (all in) in year 2, and $180 year 3, and probably over $200 in year 4?

Look at Bailey... I bet he was on the ELC for his first 2 years.  I bet Lawler was close to it too (even though he didn't rookie with us).  Ya, Schoen>Bailey, but $150 for Schoen in year 2 is going to make a lot of present and future IMP ELCs a bit miffed.  Can anyone think of another year 2 ELC guy on any team that has been offered big money in year 2??  Excluding Rourke, as a QB is a different situation.

At the end of the day, I don't think Schoen will ever be Lawler, nor she he earn as much.  Lawler has level-upped to crazy level and makes catches I've never once seen Schoen make.  They are completely different receivers, completely different styles, that can't even be compared.  It doesn't mean Schoen can't be a long-term great for us.  He can certainly be a league-wide top-5 receiver for many years.  But to bump him up to crazy money in year 2 when even Lawler and other greats didn't get treated like that??

Lastly, I'm trying to think of a CFL player in the last decade to compare Schoen to... I'm drawing blanks.  Who had this kid's style?  Surely there must be someone.  I was thinking Cahoon, but Cahoon would often make Lawler/Dressler circus catches.  Schoen is unique.

the only reciever I can remember doing as well in rookie year was Derek walker in Edmonton however the salary landscape has changed especially with the signings Ly of Lawler , Williams and Whitehead. As mentioned above EDM Mitchell recently had his 2nd yr contract redone with an extension. We will get a better idea this free agency as to whats trending and have a better feel as to whether we need to act now re Schoen
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Pigskin on January 28, 2023, 05:59:54 PM
Rookie Season Stats.

Lawler:  637 yards  4TDs  14.8 Avg.  174 YAC, longest 54 yards longest.

Schoen:  1441 yards  16TDs  20.6 Avg. 368 YAC, 81 yards longest.

Schoen also has one more TD then Lawler in 2 less seasons. So, this is why you give him a pay increase this season, and sign him to an extension for 2024 plus.

The kid makes plays. The type of receiver you want here for a long time.  
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on January 28, 2023, 06:15:19 PM
Maybe the Blue Bombers are waiting because they want to announce Demski and Schoen signings at the same time?

You would think if Schoen caught on we would of heard by now correct?
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Pete on January 28, 2023, 06:17:51 PM
Schoen is signed for 2023 so not a rush to resign before free agency starts
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 29, 2023, 05:02:56 PM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on January 28, 2023, 06:15:19 PM
Maybe the Blue Bombers are waiting because they want to announce Demski and Schoen signings at the same time?

You would think if Schoen caught on we would of heard by now correct?
Thats what I was thinking....it's almost February and the FA window is just around the corner. 
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on January 29, 2023, 07:55:33 PM
The suspense is killing me though.

To many bad memories of many years gone by and losing key free agents prior to MOS arrival.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GCn19 on January 30, 2023, 02:24:39 PM
Schoen is on a rookie deal. IF he doesn't go NFL, then we start talking midway through the season about an extension when we have a better idea of what kind of cap space we have created. The ONLY way I extend him now is if he gets a weak sauce NFL TCF contract offer and Walters feels bumping him now would sway him to return instead of taking it.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: theaardvark on January 30, 2023, 04:47:07 PM
Quote from: GCn19 on January 30, 2023, 02:24:39 PM
Schoen is on a rookie deal. IF he doesn't go NFL, then we start talking midway through the season about an extension when we have a better idea of what kind of cap space we have created. The ONLY way I extend him now is if he gets a weak sauce NFL TCF contract offer and Walters feels bumping him now would sway him to return instead of taking it.

No way ANY player getting even a sniff of NFL interest signs/stays in the CFL.  Even if it is just TCF.  Because a PR spot pays more than starting in the CFL, and a roster spot, well...

I anticipate he will get a futures offer, and will get his release.  And, if things don't pan out, I can see him as a late add to the roster in time for the playoffs...  and I hope he doesn't make NFL oriented training changes that hurt his CFL game...
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on January 31, 2023, 11:15:39 AM
Quote from: theaardvark on January 30, 2023, 04:47:07 PM
No way ANY player getting even a sniff of NFL interest signs/stays in the CFL.  Even if it is just TCF.  Because a PR spot pays more than starting in the CFL, and a roster spot, well...

I anticipate he will get a futures offer, and will get his release.  And, if things don't pan out, I can see him as a late add to the roster in time for the playoffs...  and I hope he doesn't make NFL oriented training changes that hurt his CFL game...

It does happen for older guys if they've been through the NFL ringer before and know when they're not being given a fair opportunity.

Could be that's where Scheon is at.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: theaardvark on January 31, 2023, 04:48:22 PM
Quote from: Jesse on January 31, 2023, 11:15:39 AM
It does happen for older guys if they've been through the NFL ringer before and know when they're not being given a fair opportunity.

Could be that's where Scheon is at.

He's been on 3 practice rosters in 2 years.  He's 26 years old.  Not sure he fits the "older guys who've been through the NFL ringer before"

As to  "and know when they're not being given a fair opportunity", I think that his time in the CFL gives him some additional credit when coaches/scouts look at him.  Instead of a "What have you done" unproven PR guy, he now has a "ROY, led the league in yardage" asterix beside his name on a PR/DC.  He no longer has to prove what he can do, he is now in the spot of having to show what he can do in the NFL.  A completely different place on a roster, he's not going to have a lot of PR competition with his pedigree in pro football.  Yes, it was in the CFL, but most coaches know that the CFL is the 2nd best league in the world, and give it some respect.  At least as much or more than USFL or XFL gets...
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 31, 2023, 05:57:21 PM
I'm all for pumping a player's tires, especially after the season he had, but there's no need to oversell or overstate anything here.

Considering he hasn't received an offer yet after a handful of looks and workouts, I wouldn't say time is on his side - either in terms of his age (roughly the league average of the NFL) or the window closing in two weeks. Not even a futures contract thus far is telling, IMO.

He absolutely has to prove himself - same as any other opportunity. Just because he had a phenomenal and historic 2022 season doesn't change that reality. Professional football is a business and there numerous eyes watching his every move to determine the risk/reward factor as it relates to offering a contract. NFL personnel tasked with assessing talent will look at everything, anyway. That's their main focus. And to be blunt: I can't imagine most, if any, put more stock than they should into CFL stats/production. Nor should we.

Remember: receivers are a dime a dozen in the NFL, so the odds don't appear to be working out in his favour. It doesn't seem like his 2022 campaign has changed anyone's mind just yet. That could change but the clock is ticking.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: theaardvark on January 31, 2023, 08:31:42 PM
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 31, 2023, 05:57:21 PM
I'm all for pumping a player's tires, especially after the season he had, but there's no need to oversell or overstate anything here.

Considering he hasn't received an offer yet after a handful of looks and workouts, I wouldn't say time is on his side - either in terms of his age (roughly the league average of the NFL) or the window closing in two weeks. Not even a futures contract thus far is telling, IMO.

He absolutely has to prove himself - same as any other opportunity. Just because he had a phenomenal and historic 2022 season doesn't change that reality. Professional football is a business and there numerous eyes watching his every move to determine the risk/reward factor as it relates to offering a contract. NFL personnel tasked with assessing talent will look at everything, anyway. That's their main focus. And to be blunt: I can't imagine most, if any, put more stock than they should into CFL stats/production. Nor should we.

Remember: receivers are a dime a dozen in the NFL, so the odds don't appear to be working out in his favour. It doesn't seem like his 2022 campaign has changed anyone's mind just yet. That could change but the clock is ticking.

There was a guy that had a special 2022 season (although he missed half of it) and got an NFL contract... even though he had not even got a sniff from the NFL after college...
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on February 01, 2023, 01:05:48 AM
Quote from: theaardvark on January 31, 2023, 08:31:42 PM
There was a guy that had a special 2022 season (although he missed half of it) and got an NFL contract... even though he had not even got a sniff from the NFL after college...

But Schoen did get a sniff. That's the point.

Everyone knows who he is and has a scouting report already. If they go to the CFL tape and see the same guy he was before...they're not going to give him another shot.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 01, 2023, 05:19:25 AM
Compare with Chris Matthews.  That's the last time we saw a rookie WR sensation like Schoen.  After lighting up 2012, he left for the NFL early in the 2013 season, and did ok and even made it to the SuperBowl (though I think he was filling in for a late-season injury?).  But then he loses the SuperBowl and kind of falls off everyone's radar.  Comes back to a pathetic attempt at reviving a CFL career.

What would have happened to Matthews had he stayed in the CFL instead?  Maybe he has a great, long, all-star career in WPG and/or other CFL teams?  Maybe he'd still be playing.

So was it worth it for him to go to the NFL?  Maybe?  A couple of years of PR, and some starts, and a SB loss.  Do they really make *that* much money for that to make a full decade career in the CFL as a superstar unattractive?  I don't know the $$ involved with his starts and SB loss, but maybe in this case it wasn't the massive boon he would have thought?  Now, if he gets $1M just for starting in the SB, I guess that changes the equation.  I just don't know.

Maybe Schoen can learn from looking at what has happened to his WR NFL-bound peers over their entire careers.  Especially since at this point it looks like the best he'll do is bouncing around PRs.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 01, 2023, 01:26:35 PM
Someone should probably read up on Matthews' football career a bit better. ::)

Quote from: Jesse on February 01, 2023, 01:05:48 AM
But Schoen did get a sniff. That's the point.

Everyone knows who he is and has a scouting report already. If they go to the CFL tape and see the same guy he was before...they're not going to give him another shot.

Exactly. The comparison to Rourke is also ridiculous; a QB is not a WR.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on February 01, 2023, 01:41:27 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 01, 2023, 05:19:25 AM
Compare with Chris Matthews.  That's the last time we saw a rookie WR sensation like Schoen.  After lighting up 2012, he left for the NFL early in the 2013 season, and did ok and even made it to the SuperBowl (though I think he was filling in for a late-season injury?).  But then he loses the SuperBowl and kind of falls off everyone's radar.  Comes back to a pathetic attempt at reviving a CFL career.

What would have happened to Matthews had he stayed in the CFL instead?  Maybe he has a great, long, all-star career in WPG and/or other CFL teams?  Maybe he'd still be playing.

So was it worth it for him to go to the NFL?  Maybe?  A couple of years of PR, and some starts, and a SB loss.  Do they really make *that* much money for that to make a full decade career in the CFL as a superstar unattractive?  I don't know the $$ involved with his starts and SB loss, but maybe in this case it wasn't the massive boon he would have thought?  Now, if he gets $1M just for starting in the SB, I guess that changes the equation.  I just don't know.

Maybe Schoen can learn from looking at what has happened to his WR NFL-bound peers over their entire careers.  Especially since at this point it looks like the best he'll do is bouncing around PRs.


Plenty of recent examples of CFL receivers carving out good careers in the NFL. No, they are not all stars. But they hang around, play depth roles and make millions over the course of a few years. Not the mention the NFL connections that may lead to increased opportunities in their post-playing careers.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 03, 2023, 06:27:08 AM
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 01, 2023, 01:26:35 PM
Someone should probably read up on Matthews' football career a bit better. ::)

Uh, oh sagacious one, what exactly did I get wrong?  I looked at his stats and he had a good 1-2 years clearly in a dressed-as-relief role (not starting), or at best a starter in a Woli-type 5th-read role (avg 10yds or so per game in '15).

So if you dress but aren't a starter, do you still make the big bucks??  What does a starting 5th read WR make?  You answered none of my questions.  And clearly he spent many weeks of those years on the PR.  And if Strev/Rourke sitting on PRs are looking at $700k, then surely a WR on the PR would make far less?
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on February 03, 2023, 01:49:49 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 03, 2023, 06:27:08 AM
Uh, oh sagacious one, what exactly did I get wrong?  I looked at his stats and he had a good 1-2 years clearly in a dressed-as-relief role (not starting), or at best a starter in a Woli-type 5th-read role (avg 10yds or so per game in '15).

So if you dress but aren't a starter, do you still make the big bucks??  What does a starting 5th read WR make?  You answered none of my questions.  And clearly he spent many weeks of those years on the PR.  And if Strev/Rourke sitting on PRs are looking at $700k, then surely a WR on the PR would make far less?


NFL ELC's are over $700K. So whether you're a QB or a WR it's the same money for the minimum level. Rourke may have a higher level deal and more guarantees but the bottom rung of NFL contracts is why CFL players are interested.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: DM83 on February 03, 2023, 02:56:21 PM
Interesting concept. Take an  NFL practice roster for lots of money and not play too much vs. play in Canada for 75% of the American dollar, but play, and in retirement, a foothold on a professional career..

Shoen is at a crossroads.  He is one of those great athletes, who for some reason is not a tight end or fast enough to be considered a starting WR in the NFL.  As well there are probably a hundred guys like him.  Not fast enough to be a WR or big enough to be a TE.

Some teams are employing the back out of the backfield as a receiver.  I think those teams will compete for the Super Bowl.
(Why? well defensively in the NFL  traditionally, the MLB covers the back in Man to man.)

In the CFL, the coaches, have realized that paying a couple more tougher DBs in a LB role helps solve that problem.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Pigskin on February 03, 2023, 03:15:09 PM
It would be nice to have Schoen and Demski signed for the next three years, with Zac.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: DM83 on February 03, 2023, 05:16:44 PM
Agreed
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: theaardvark on February 03, 2023, 05:24:07 PM
When does the futures contract window in the NFL close? 

If Schoen does not get an NFL offer, I wonder if Walters manages to sign him to a 2yr extension (3 years total) with guaranteed money on the back end.  If he does, Schoen will have the NFL window again next year...

There is no doubt that he has the stuff to be a star CFL player for many years to come.  Extending him will come down to whether he wants to "bet on himself" and try FA next year, or take guaranteed money with a great team he is comfortable on...  Lawler, Marcus Sayles, even Darby chased the extra dollars... didn't work out great for them except in the bank account.

 
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on February 03, 2023, 06:31:46 PM
I would find it profoundly odd if Demski not resigning here especially with Zach locked down and a returning Buck as OC. I sure he owns a house here in his home town and his net take home salary would exceed going to other places.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on February 03, 2023, 08:16:42 PM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on February 03, 2023, 06:31:46 PM
I would find it profoundly odd if Demski not resigning here especially with Zach locked down and a returning Buck as OC. I sure he owns a house here in his home town and his net take home salary would exceed going to other places.

Not only is it cheaper for him to stay, I don't know if I see a team offering him more than we do. I think we hold him in the highest regard.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on February 03, 2023, 08:39:02 PM
Quote from: Jesse on February 03, 2023, 08:16:42 PM
Not only is it cheaper for him to stay, I don't know if I see a team offering him more than we do. I think we hold him in the highest regard.
Yup Walters must know the fan base is starting to lose there **** now! :-\
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 03, 2023, 10:57:03 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 03, 2023, 01:49:49 PM
NFL ELC's are over $700K. So whether you're a QB or a WR it's the same money for the minimum level. Rourke may have a higher level deal and more guarantees but the bottom rung of NFL contracts is why CFL players are interested.

Oh, I didn't know all dressed NFL players make at least $700k.  I would have guessed it would be based on position, supply/demand, and/oor merit.

If Matthews was raking in $700k/year those years he was dressing for games, then ya, it makes sense to leave for the NFL if you can get 1-3 years dressing, and you still get the hope of being a league top-5 and earning bazillions.

So then the question for Schoen would become: would he dress like Matthews did or just sit on PR, which certainly doesn't pay too much more than being a top-3 CFL receiver.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: theaardvark on February 03, 2023, 11:50:58 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 03, 2023, 10:57:03 PM
Oh, I didn't know all dressed NFL players make at least $700k.  I would have guessed it would be based on position, supply/demand, and/oor merit.

If Matthews was raking in $700k/year those years he was dressing for games, then ya, it makes sense to leave for the NFL if you can get 1-3 years dressing, and you still get the hope of being a league top-5 and earning bazillions.

So then the question for Schoen would become: would he dress like Matthews did or just sit on PR, which certainly doesn't pay too much more than being a top-3 CFL receiver.


"The minimum weekly wage for players with two or fewer NFL seasons is $11,500, or $207,000 for an 18-week stint on the practice squad."

That's $US, or just under a million $CAN... ;)
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Foxhound on February 04, 2023, 02:24:18 AM
And less taxes.

:(

Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 04, 2023, 03:59:18 AM
Quote from: theaardvark on February 03, 2023, 11:50:58 PM
"The minimum weekly wage for players with two or fewer NFL seasons is $11,500, or $207,000 for an 18-week stint on the practice squad."

That's $US, or just under a million $CAN... ;)

Players rarely sit on the PR for a full year, most of them are on and off it like a yoyo.  Nothing much happening for Schoen, he'll be fortunate if he gets a PR spot at this point IMO.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on February 04, 2023, 01:18:58 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 04, 2023, 03:59:18 AM
Players rarely sit on the PR for a full year, most of them are on and off it like a yoyo.  Nothing much happening for Schoen, he'll be fortunate if he gets a PR spot at this point IMO.

True enough but being on a PR for only 4 or 5 games is as much as a CFL ELC deal and the chance to earn more.

Schoen is down to the last 4 or so days to get an NFL contract.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on February 08, 2023, 06:43:57 PM
What day is the final day for NFL window?
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Sec223 on February 08, 2023, 06:52:05 PM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on February 08, 2023, 06:43:57 PM
What day is the final day for NFL window?

Feb 14 ?
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on February 08, 2023, 07:19:43 PM
Quote from: Sec223 on February 08, 2023, 06:52:05 PM
Feb 14 ?
1 week to go..
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on February 09, 2023, 01:51:46 PM
I posted comments earlier that the NFL window closed on Feb 8th, so I think Schoen will be back. Free agency starts on Feb 14th but both the NFL option and tampering period seemed to close a week earlier.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Pete on February 09, 2023, 02:28:35 PM
From what I've read the window is open til Feb 14th, Feb 8th was the 2022 date

Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: the paw on February 09, 2023, 02:31:43 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 09, 2023, 01:51:46 PM
I posted comments earlier that the NFL window closed on Feb 8th, so I think Schoen will be back. Free agency starts on Feb 14th but both the NFL option and tampering period seemed to close a week earlier.
.

It was my impression that the time between the close of legal tampering and start of free agency was 48 hours.  

I believe free agency starts on the 14th, so I would imagine the legal tampering period ends on or about the 12th.  
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 09, 2023, 02:35:07 PM
Whatever the date is, I can't and don't see Schoen getting a contract offer from a NFL team. I think if there had been sufficient interest, he'd have been offered something already.

Lawler and Schoen on the same field is going to be bonkers.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 09, 2023, 03:35:14 PM
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 09, 2023, 02:35:07 PM
Whatever the date is, I can't and don't see Schoen getting a contract offer from a NFL team. I think if there had been sufficient interest, he'd have been offered something already.

Lawler and Schoen on the same field is going to be bonkers.
throw in Demski and Agudosi and who do you key on?   Zach must be smiling at the prospect
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on February 09, 2023, 04:43:52 PM
Quote from: Pete on February 09, 2023, 02:28:35 PM
From what I've read the window is open til Feb 14th, Feb 8th was the 2022 date



You are correct I was in error. It changed for 2023 as you indicated.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: LXTSN on February 09, 2023, 04:46:55 PM
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on February 09, 2023, 03:35:14 PM
throw in Demski and Agudosi and who do you key on?   Zach must be smiling at the prospect
Woli-Lawler-Demski-Schoen-Agudosi is just unfair!
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 10, 2023, 03:52:01 AM
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on February 09, 2023, 03:35:14 PM
throw in Demski and Agudosi and who do you key on?   Zach must be smiling at the prospect

Don't sleep on Woli.  With all the attention the superstars will get, Woli is gonna be wide open flying down the rail a whack ton.

Quote from: LXTSN on February 09, 2023, 04:46:55 PM
Woli-Lawler-Demski-Schoen-Agudosi is just unfair!

That it is.  Best receiver corps in the CFL in maybe a decade.  And with an OL and QB that can get the job done... look out!
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: theaardvark on February 10, 2023, 04:57:51 AM
Having a great receiving corps is one thing, having an Oline that can protect a QB who can actually throw to them is quite another. We have all three...
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Sec223 on February 10, 2023, 11:24:40 AM
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on February 09, 2023, 03:35:14 PM
throw in Demski and Agudosi and who do you key on?   Zach must be smiling at the prospect
Never mind Zach smiling. BO must be vibrating. Go ahead do everything you can to stop the pass :)
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Stretch on February 10, 2023, 12:00:59 PM
Quote from: Sec223 on February 10, 2023, 11:24:40 AM
Never mind Zach smiling. BO must be vibrating. Go ahead do everything you can to stop the pass :)

Don't forget about Buck. I'm sure he's rubbing his hands together in anticipation.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: pjrocksmb on February 10, 2023, 12:29:15 PM
Goody goody gumdrops
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 10, 2023, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on February 10, 2023, 04:57:51 AM
Having a great receiving corps is one thing, having an Oline that can protect a QB who can actually throw to them is quite another. We have all three...

Don't forget the tailback. Oliveira had an awesome 2022 season and that was after a slow start.

This 2023 offense is going to be scary. Scary good for us, scary bad for opponents. ;D
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: theaardvark on February 10, 2023, 03:05:36 PM
If you have an offense that is on the field most of the time, then the defense gets better because they are well rested...

I can see us winning TOP most games, and this is a sure handed bunch, so turnover battle should also be in our favour. 

This is going to be an exciting year...


It is interesting to look at the Bomber alumni that have signed elsewhere, the SMS$ they have eaten up, and the fact that in many ways, the 2023 Bombers may be better than the 2022 Bombers...

Too early for awarding GM of the Year? ;)
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 10, 2023, 04:33:32 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on February 10, 2023, 03:05:36 PM
If you have an offense that is on the field most of the time, then the defense gets better because they are well rested...

I can see us winning TOP most games, and this is a sure handed bunch, so turnover battle should also be in our favour. 

This is going to be an exciting year...


Too early for awarding GM of the Year? ;)

Doesn't always work that way, a very good offence can score quickly and often, I could see them winning games but losing TOP like they did in Edmonton last season.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: pjrocksmb on February 10, 2023, 08:24:13 PM
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 10, 2023, 02:00:41 PM
Don't forget the tailback. Oliveira had an awesome 2022 season and that was after a slow start.

This 2023 offense is going to be scary. Scary good for us, scary bad for opponents. ;D
Agree and BO will have a career year.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 11, 2023, 01:54:30 AM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 10, 2023, 04:33:32 PM
Doesn't always work that way, a very good offence can score quickly and often, I could see them winning games but losing TOP like they did in Edmonton last season.

I don't know, MOS has morphed into a staunch TOP, keep-the-rock HC over his tenure.  Even moreso in the last 4 years.  Fast-scoring, tempo-O, and D-scoring without an eye towards holding that rock cost us games when we were decent in '15-'17.  Clock control is now a major factor in the MOS gameplan and we almost always do major clock bleed when we're ahead, even in the 1st half.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 11, 2023, 03:49:04 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 11, 2023, 01:54:30 AM
I don't know, MOS has morphed into a staunch TOP, keep-the-rock HC over his tenure.  Even moreso in the last 4 years.  Fast-scoring, tempo-O, and D-scoring without an eye towards holding that rock cost us games when we were decent in '15-'17.  Clock control is now a major factor in the MOS gameplan and we almost always do major clock bleed when we're ahead, even in the 1st half.

agree....when you have a RB that thrives late in games like a AH or now, a BO....you can control the game in the 4th quarter when you have the lead.....with the weapons we have on offence we can do both....score quickly when needed and then close out the game with ball control
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 11, 2023, 06:31:53 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 11, 2023, 01:54:30 AM
I don't know, MOS has morphed into a staunch TOP, keep-the-rock HC over his tenure.  Even moreso in the last 4 years.  Fast-scoring, tempo-O, and D-scoring without an eye towards holding that rock cost us games when we were decent in '15-'17.  Clock control is now a major factor in the MOS gameplan and we almost always do major clock bleed when we're ahead, even in the 1st half.


I think ideally Zach doesn't like to screw around with ball control offence, the first BC game last year is the best example I can think of, he likes to score often and score fast.  It may be contrary to O'Shea plans but he is also not going to stick his nose in Buck's business and tell them to play conservatively.   What you described probably applies more to tight defensive battles, which used to be the Bombers forte, but is no longer their preferred method of winning.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Pete on February 11, 2023, 08:12:26 PM
One area Zac and the offence can improve is in getting the ball out faster. Zac likes to improvise but against good man to man defences he runs out of time
Against Toronto we needed to have more quick timing plays to mitigate the rush




Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on February 11, 2023, 11:45:48 PM
Quote from: Pete on February 11, 2023, 08:12:26 PM
One area Zac and the offence can improve is in getting the ball out faster. Zac likes to improvise but against good man to man defences he runs out of time
Against Toronto we needed to have more quick timing plays to mitigate the rush






Yes and no. Our biggest plays come from Zach extending the play.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 11, 2023, 11:55:03 PM
Quote from: Jesse on February 11, 2023, 11:45:48 PM
Yes and no. Our biggest plays come from Zach extending the play.

His ability to move the pocket and use hit feet has given the offense a significant advantage in terms of keeping defenders honest and extending plays.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on February 12, 2023, 04:11:16 PM
Quote from: Pete on February 11, 2023, 08:12:26 PM
One area Zac and the offence can improve is in getting the ball out faster. Zac likes to improvise but against good man to man defences he runs out of time
Against Toronto we needed to have more quick timing plays to mitigate the rush





I believe he was limited in the GC which explains a lot of what went down in that game.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Pete on February 12, 2023, 04:31:41 PM
Not saying that he should stop doing what makes him successful, but against certain defences having more more quick hitting plays would be useful

Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 12, 2023, 05:42:06 PM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on February 12, 2023, 04:11:16 PM
I believe he was limited in the GC which explains a lot of what went down in that game.
albeit he insisted he was ok....I believe he was hampered although TO defences well against him.    He didn't have much time all game....maybe 10 years down the road when Zach is retired he may come out and tell us exactly how he was on that day
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 12, 2023, 09:01:01 PM
Alright, the NFL window closes on Feb. 14th, we should be hearing Schoen's status before the end of the week.  I suspect Walters is reworking his deal.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: theaardvark on February 13, 2023, 12:51:09 AM
If the NFL was smart, they'd bring in the waggle, its one of the most exciting non-special teams differences between the league. 

If they ever did that, Schoen lands an NFL deal immediately...

Thank goodness the NFL is dumb.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Blue In BC on February 13, 2023, 01:29:49 AM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 12, 2023, 09:01:01 PM
Alright, the NFL window closes on Feb. 14th, we should be hearing Schoen's status before the end of the week.  I suspect Walters is reworking his deal.

Why would he do that instead of using any SMS money to upgrade the roster elsewhere? If he money left over then he can consider re-working Schoen's deal.

We still need to sign a # 3 QB and possibly a couple of depth players in free agency. I don't think there are any good DL left that are affordable.

I'm not against Schoen getting more money but it's not the current priority.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 13, 2023, 04:01:30 AM
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 13, 2023, 01:29:49 AM
Why would he do that instead of using any SMS money to upgrade the roster elsewhere? If he money left over then he can consider re-working Schoen's deal.

We still need to sign a # 3 QB and possibly a couple of depth players in free agency. I don't think there are any good DL left that are affordable.

I'm not against Schoen getting more money but it's not the current priority.

If Walters can lock him for multiple season past next season it would be prudent to do so.  Always a possibility he takes another shot at the NFL again next year anyway.  Elks signed Dillon Mitchell to a 2 year extension at $150K per, so the precedent has already been set.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GCn19 on February 13, 2023, 01:12:12 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 13, 2023, 01:29:49 AM
Why would he do that instead of using any SMS money to upgrade the roster elsewhere? If he money left over then he can consider re-working Schoen's deal.

We still need to sign a # 3 QB and possibly a couple of depth players in free agency. I don't think there are any good DL left that are affordable.

I'm not against Schoen getting more money but it's not the current priority.

I am sure that re-upping Schoen will become a priority at some point this season, but agree we are not at that point right now. We will likely look to extend him with a healthy raise sometime this season to keep future cap hit down on a multi-year deal. It's the smart move.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 15, 2023, 01:09:13 AM
So the NFL window is now closed and AFAWK he didn't get an offer?  Can I stop holding my breath now??
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on February 15, 2023, 01:10:40 AM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 15, 2023, 01:09:13 AM
So the NFL window is now closed and AFAWK he didn't get an offer?  Can I stop holding my breath now??

no
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on February 15, 2023, 11:47:48 AM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on February 15, 2023, 01:10:40 AM
no

Yes.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 15, 2023, 01:59:41 PM
Schoen will be back this season.

This receiving corps is going to be scary good.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 15, 2023, 07:20:19 PM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on February 15, 2023, 01:10:40 AM
no

Quote from: Jesse on February 15, 2023, 11:47:48 AM
Yes.

You guys sound like my wife!  :o
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on February 15, 2023, 09:05:42 PM
Quote from: Jesse on February 15, 2023, 11:47:48 AM
Yes.
I was joking Tecno can always breathe. :P
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 22, 2023, 07:02:37 PM
Has Schoen agreed to come back yet?  Can't find anything on the Bomber website mentioning this and don't recall hearing an interview with him about his return.   Usually the Bombers will create an event from every scrap of good news they can conjure to create good vibes, perhaps they're still in the process of negotiating an extension with him.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on February 22, 2023, 07:04:31 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 22, 2023, 07:02:37 PM
Has Schoen agreed to come back yet?  Can't find anything on the Bomber website mentioning this and don't recall hearing an interview with him about his return.   Usually the Bombers will create an event from every scrap of good news they can conjure to create good vibes, perhaps they're still in the process of negotiating an extension with him.

He has, yes.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on February 22, 2023, 07:04:39 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 22, 2023, 07:02:37 PM
Has Schoen agreed to come back yet?  Can't find anything on the Bomber website mentioning this and don't recall hearing an interview with him about his return.   Usually the Bombers will create an event from every scrap of good news they can conjure to create good vibes, perhaps they're still in the process of negotiating an extension with him.

He has.

There was an interview/article with Ed Tait and he posted a video on IG this week.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 22, 2023, 08:02:34 PM
Quote from: Jesse on February 22, 2023, 07:04:39 PM
He has.

There was an interview/article with Ed Tait and he posted a video on IG this week.

Thanks, what is "IG"?
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Jesse on February 22, 2023, 08:18:54 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 22, 2023, 08:02:34 PM
Thanks, what is "IG"?

Instagram.

Just a 20 second video on how he was excited to return and was already working out.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: blueraid on February 22, 2023, 09:13:56 PM
The talent on our receiving corps is.....let's just say very substantial...Will there be enough balls thrown to go around and keep everyone happy...???I'm sure Zack has a smile a mile wide with what Walters has provided him....Envy of the league I'd say ....With Bailey coming back for another year, he gives us a tremendous blocking asset as well as his receiving prowess...Schoen is going to have another big year as well as Demski ..... and that should give us a very good chance at another Cup appearance in 23'....AND with a different outcome than the last go around...
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 23, 2023, 03:44:40 AM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 22, 2023, 08:02:34 PM
Thanks, what is "IG"?

It's a field.  We all go to it 10+ times a year.

;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Foxhound on June 10, 2023, 02:38:06 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 23, 2023, 03:44:40 AMIt's a field.  We all go to it 10+ times a year.

I wish they'd gone to Dalton Schoen on the field more often yesterday....

:(
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: KINGCHARLES on June 10, 2023, 04:10:56 PM
Quote from: blueraid on February 22, 2023, 09:13:56 PM
The talent on our receiving corps is.....let's just say very substantial...Will there be enough balls thrown to go around and keep everyone happy...???I'm sure Zack has a smile a mile wide with what Walters has provided him....Envy of the league I'd say ....With Bailey coming back for another year, he gives us a tremendous blocking asset as well as his receiving prowess...Schoen is going to have another big year as well as Demski ..... and that should give us a very good chance at another Cup appearance in 23'....AND with a different outcome than the last go around...

People love stats, thing is the CFL's new and improved stats department is absolute ducking trash right now, i've been apart of amateur football programs that are more transparent.
That being said, Collaros after the 1st quarter last night was on pace to break Dunigans single game passing yardage record. Even Doug Brown on CJOB who is more defensive minded joked that Collaros was on pace for a 13,000 yard season with a few hundred TD's.
Also with the mindset of "not enough balls to go around" that's 100% a  fan perspective, we judge based on stats, we thrive on stats, we expect stats. O'Shea and his winning culture, his team, his FIFO mentality culture only cares about 1 stat and that's going 1-0 each week.

Random stats that are amazing for us from last night from what we can only temporarily see:
Collaros 354 yrds and 3 TD's ....without Lawler in the lineup....projects to 6,372 yards and 54 TD's over an 18 game season.
Brady Oliveira, thought i saw him at 116 yards rushing (currently shows 106 but think 116 is accurate) and 58 yards receiving and 1 TD... projects to 2088 yrds rushing, 18 TD's and 1044 yrds receiving.
Demski 113 yards receiving 1 TD...projects to 2034 yards and 18 TD's.
Schoen and Wolitarsky both over 55.5 yards receiving = on pace for over 1,000 yards.
This is only week 1, the offence is only learning what they are capable of. By week 5 or 6 this will be potentially one of the most lethal offences ever.

Defensively stats wise... 3 sacks, 6 turnovers.
who had the sacks? Jefferson 2 and Haba?
Looking at play by play it looks like Jeffcoat only played the 1st quarter and that Haba may have had aprox 3 tackles and a sack in place of him.
Either way Jefferson is on pace for 36 sacks and about 60 Knockdowns.. Haba is on pace for 18 sacks (I didn't even know who he was until his sack).
Houston is on pace for 36 interceptions (lol).
Holm and Lawrence were competing with Jefferson for most knockdowns in the game, the 3 of them must have had their hands on at least 2-3 balls each.
Bighill probably had 4-6 tackles.
If the secondary improves on their play week to week, Rose and Parker may have a tough time returning which is an amazing problem to have.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: theaardvark on June 10, 2023, 07:42:46 PM
Only week one, but.

It was against the team generally considered to be the #2 favourite behind the WBB to win the GC...

So, the rest of the games should be easier...
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on June 10, 2023, 10:46:33 PM
Quote from: Foxhound on June 10, 2023, 02:38:06 PM
I wish they'd gone to Dalton Schoen on the field more often yesterday....

I need to confirm, but I think they were double-teaming or at least FS-leaning on Schoen.  With no Lawler they are assuming Schoen is our best SB, as the stats would show.  I think that's what helped to open up Demski and even Bailey.

When Lawler comes back, Schoen should see a lot more looks.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: DM83 on June 13, 2023, 02:43:36 PM
He looked slower.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 13, 2023, 03:36:56 PM
Quote from: Foxhound on June 10, 2023, 02:38:06 PM
I wish they'd gone to Dalton Schoen on the field more often yesterday....

:(

I rewatched the game last night and Schoen received a fair amount of targets going 5/60 yds., plus he dropped his first and a few other passes were knocked down.  With the addition of Lawler and Zach spreading the ball around more equitably I expect his stats will fall off quite a bit this year as he will receive more attention.  He still runs every route at 100%.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Foxhound on June 14, 2023, 06:47:30 PM
Quote from: DM83 on June 13, 2023, 02:43:36 PMHe looked slower.

I see that Schoen didn't practice yesterday due to an ankle problem. He also missed the first one or two practices last week with an ankle(?) problem. Hopefully the rest will enable him to be 100% on Friday at Mosaic.

:-\

Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: TecnoGenius on June 14, 2023, 07:20:39 PM
Quote from: Foxhound on June 14, 2023, 06:47:30 PM
I see that Schoen didn't practice yesterday due to an ankle problem. He also missed the first one or two practices last week with an ankle(?) problem. Hopefully the rest will enable him to be 100% on Friday at Mosaic.

Watch Schoen after every play, especially receptions/tackles.  He always walks away from a play like he's tweaked his ankle.  I'm talking like every time.  All last season and this season first game too.  Hobbles a bit and has a strained look on his face.  He never walks away looking 100% comfortable.

I have no idea if this is just his schtick, or if it's just his face/gait, or if he's always in a bit of pain.  If the latter, then I fully expect him to play his normal game in week 2.  He strikes me as a semi-Strevie: just keep on truckin', pain be damned.  I'm weird in that I always study faces/gait when players walk away from tackles... it's a great way to spot issues, even when they're trying to hide them.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 14, 2023, 11:53:59 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 14, 2023, 07:20:39 PM
Watch Schoen after every play, especially receptions/tackles.  He always walks away from a play like he's tweaked his ankle.  I'm talking like every time.  All last season and this season first game too.  Hobbles a bit and has a strained look on his face.  He never walks away looking 100% comfortable.

I have no idea if this is just his schtick, or if it's just his face/gait, or if he's always in a bit of pain.  If the latter, then I fully expect him to play his normal game in week 2.  He strikes me as a semi-Strevie: just keep on truckin', pain be damned.  I'm weird in that I always study faces/gait when players walk away from tackles... it's a great way to spot issues, even when they're trying to hide them.


Schoen took some pretty good licks last game, the league-wide strategy to contain him this season might be to beat the snot out of him.
Title: Re: Dalton Schoen working our for Vikes...
Post by: DM83 on June 15, 2023, 03:14:50 PM
Them Thar ankles suck when they get twisted.