Blue Bombers Forum

The Extra Point => Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum => Topic started by: KINGCHARLES on November 21, 2022, 11:11:37 PM



Title: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: KINGCHARLES on November 21, 2022, 11:11:37 PM
Does anyone have a list of potential free agents for 2023?


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pigskin on November 22, 2022, 03:21:29 AM
Apparently, the Bombers have already signed a number of FAs. I would think they will be announced soon.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on November 22, 2022, 01:14:16 PM
Here's the list: https://3downnation.com/2022/11/22/willie-jefferson-headlines-winnipeg-blue-bombers-free-agent-list/


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: blue_or_die on November 22, 2022, 01:46:16 PM
Even though our annual FA thread is always entertaining, I know better than to check it before the end of January since it's largely speculative (in the sense of not knowing who has a deal done at a moment's notice, who's working on a deal at the time, etc.). It's the CFL so 75% of players are FAs right now and a huge chunk of them will be locked up soon.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 22, 2022, 01:58:53 PM
Bomber Free Agents according to 3Down Nation:

Quarterback

Dakota Prukop (A)

Running back

None

Fullback

Mike Miller (N)

Receiver

Rasheed Bailey (A)
Nic Demski (N)
Greg Ellingson (A)
Janarion Grant (A)

Offensive line

Stanley Bryant (A)
Michael Couture (N)
Jermarcus Hardrick (A)
Patrick Neufeld (N)

Defensive line

Keion Adams (A)
Jackson Jeffcoat (A)
Willie Jefferson (A)
Casey Sayles (A)
Jake Thomas (N)

Linebacker

Adam Bighill (A)
Jesse Briggs (N)
Shayne Gauthier (N)
Les Maruo (G)
Kyrie Wilson (A)

Defensive back

Alden Darby (A)
Desmond Lawrence (A)
Mercy Maston (A)
Winston Rose (A)
Nick Taylor (A)

Kicker

None

Long snapper

Mike Benson (N)

A number of players finished the season on the practice roster, including American receiver Jaivon Heiligh, Global receiver Timothy Knuettel, American receiver Greg McCrae, Canadian receiver Luke McMillan, American offensive lineman Eric Lofton, American offensive lineman Tyler Witt, American linebacker DeJaun Cooper, Global defensive back Souleymane Karamoko, Canadian defensive back Cedric Lavigne, American defensive back Donald Rutledge Jr., and American kicker Ali Mourtada. As such, they are currently free agents.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: theaardvark on November 22, 2022, 04:39:22 PM
While we might get "Lawler'd" on a couple players, I fear retirement more than defection in this offseason. 

Maybe losing the GC and having "unfinished business" as a rallying cry, we might have a better off season resigning players...


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on November 22, 2022, 05:17:14 PM
While we might get "Lawler'd" on a couple players, I fear retirement more than defection in this offseason. 

Maybe losing the GC and having "unfinished business" as a rallying cry, we might have a better off season resigning players...

Oh god, not unfinished business again!

Players who I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they retired:
Greg Ellingson
Stanley Bryant
Patrick Neufeld
Jake Thomas
Mercy Maston
Mike Miller
Mike Benson
Nick Taylor

Players who are probably worth less than their current contract:
Winston Rose
Jackson Jeffcoat

Players who probably need raises in order to stay:
Janarion Grant
Rasheed Bailey
Shayne Gauthier


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Stretch on November 22, 2022, 06:15:27 PM
Maybe losing the GC and having "unfinished business" as a rallying cry, we might have a better off season resigning players...

I hope our marketing department doesn't dig that one up. Didn't go so well last time.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pigskin on November 22, 2022, 08:07:48 PM
Oh god, not unfinished business again!

Players who I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they retired:
Greg Ellingson
Stanley Bryant
Patrick Neufeld
Jake Thomas
Mercy Maston
Mike Miller
Mike Benson
Nick Taylor

Players who are probably worth less than their current contract:
Winston Rose
Jackson Jeffcoat

Players who probably need raises in order to stay:
Janarion Grant
Rasheed Bailey
Shayne Gauthier

I think Bryant, Neufled, Benson and Miller, stay another year. Neufled and Benson both were very healthy this year.

Rose had a tough season but hearing he had some foot issues for most of the season. JJ missed far too many games. JT95 was another player that had a tough year.

Gauthier, Grant and Bailey will all get a bump in pay.

ND10 is in for a long-term deal, and CS90 will also get a nice bump in pay. GC game 6 DTs and 1 sack.

SC90 had a very good year with 36 DTs, 6 sacks, and 2 FF. Add on another 9 DTs and 1 sack in the playoffs.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 22, 2022, 08:48:35 PM
Please scrap the Unfinished Business thing. I did not work before it will not work again. Brings up to many disappointments. Dumb idea.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pigskin on November 23, 2022, 10:52:47 PM
Maruo quietly had a pretty decent season. 21 tackles. 14DTs  7STs. Good global fine.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: the paw on November 24, 2022, 01:50:24 AM
Oh god, not unfinished business again!

Players who I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they retired:
Greg Ellingson
Stanley Bryant
Patrick Neufeld
Jake Thomas
Mercy Maston
Mike Miller
Mike Benson
Nick Taylor

Players who are probably worth less than their current contract:
Winston Rose
Jackson Jeffcoat

Players who probably need raises in order to stay:
Janarion Grant
Rasheed Bailey
Shayne Gauthier

In your first grouping, I think the WBB should move on from Ellingson, he just wasn't healthy enough this year.  I think Neufeld probably plays again, and I would put Bryant's odds on retirement at 50-50.  I think the club will move on from Jake Thomas.  With the "part-time" starter tweak to the ratio, I can see the Bombers platooning Lawson with Ricky Walker at DT and saving a few shekels. the others will either retire or simply not offered contracts.

I agree that Rose has not looked as good this year as in previous years.  I think he might get into camp, but they might also let him walk.  With the return of Houston and the emergence of Parker and Lawrence, he will be in tough to stick.  I disagree on Jeffcoat.  I think he is highly effective when he plays, and I am sure he will be back.  I don't know about his contract leverage, but I don't think he will have to take a haircut. 

I love Janarion Grant, but I don't think returners get big dollars unless they can play on offence, and that hasn't happened yet.  I expect him back.  I don't know if Bailey needs a huge raise, but I could see him getting a larger role in the offence if they move on from Ellingson.  Gauthier wasn't expensive to start with, so a decent raise should still make him affordable. 


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Big Daddy on November 24, 2022, 02:38:36 AM
I'm a bit surprised at the feeling in here of moving on from Ellingson.  Do people forget how he played in the first third of the season?  Yes he was injured for quite some time, but his salary against the cap is mitigated as a result. 

I know, I wouldn't want to stifle the opportunity of another to keep someone for the first few games only to lose them to injury.  In my mind, it really depends on the nature of the injury or injuries, how likely it is to occur again or be a hindrance moving forward, and the player's effort to rehab, etc. 

If this was a freak injury, and he is likely to be back full strength and not questionable, based on how he made us forget about the loss of Lawler (and he most certainly did that), I would want him back for sure.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: the paw on November 24, 2022, 03:30:31 AM
I'm a bit surprised at the feeling in here of moving on from Ellingson.  Do people forget how he played in the first third of the season?  Yes he was injured for quite some time, but his salary against the cap is mitigated as a result. 

I know, I wouldn't want to stifle the opportunity of another to keep someone for the first few games only to lose them to injury.  In my mind, it really depends on the nature of the injury or injuries, how likely it is to occur again or be a hindrance moving forward, and the player's effort to rehab, etc. 

If this was a freak injury, and he is likely to be back full strength and not questionable, based on how he made us forget about the loss of Lawler (and he most certainly did that), I would want him back for sure.

I loved Ellingson's start to the season.  But he turns 34 next month, and he played less than half the season with a recurring hip injury.  He also missed 4/14 games in 2021.  Those are all bad signs.

If Schoen was coming back, then I might be more willing to roll the dice.  But Schoen is going to get an NFL offer, and the offence will need a proven and  reliable #1/#2 receiver to go with Demski.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: dd on November 24, 2022, 03:36:52 AM
Times up on ellingson, he ll be hurt for a portion of next season as well. We need someone  who doesn?t get hurt as much and can produce at a high level, there will be lots available in free agency


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: buckzumhoff on November 24, 2022, 04:00:21 AM
Id keep him another year. Id keep as many or all receivers. We got McRae . Agodosi Bailey Demski. Wolitarsky. And Shoen if he stays


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pigskin on November 24, 2022, 04:10:55 AM
Id keep him another year. Id keep as many or all receivers. We got McRae . Agodosi Bailey Demski. Wolitarsky. And Shoen if he stays

That's if we can sign Bailey.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: theaardvark on November 24, 2022, 01:41:07 PM
Shoen has announced he is exploring NFL options... 

No surprise, wish him luck... and if not, a speedy return home here...


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 24, 2022, 04:24:27 PM
I'm a bit surprised at the feeling in here of moving on from Ellingson.  Do people forget how he played in the first third of the season?  Yes he was injured for quite some time, but his salary against the cap is mitigated as a result. 

I know, I wouldn't want to stifle the opportunity of another to keep someone for the first few games only to lose them to injury.  In my mind, it really depends on the nature of the injury or injuries, how likely it is to occur again or be a hindrance moving forward, and the player's effort to rehab, etc. 

If this was a freak injury, and he is likely to be back full strength and not questionable, based on how he made us forget about the loss of Lawler (and he most certainly did that), I would want him back for sure.

I'm fine with Ellingson returning for another year, I wasn't keen on his initial signing but he convinced me he was still a top level CFL receiver with his play this past season.  If the Bomber staff and Zach want him back, it's good to go. Can never blame a player for getting injured, but on the bright side he'll be fresh for next season and he can't ask for a pay increase.  Schoen wouldn't have had nearly as many receptions as he did had Ellingson remained healthy.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Blue In BC on November 24, 2022, 05:22:21 PM
Shoen has announced he is exploring NFL options... 

No surprise, wish him luck... and if not, a speedy return home here...

Yeah, he deserves a shot in the NFL. He's a quality receiver. That said we've seen other top CFL receivers get TC offers and not many have made it past TC.  Not sure why that happens but the NFL is hit and miss on the signings of top CFL players.

What determines landing that spot is finding the right team / situation and / or getting some up front money. Otherwise he may bounce around various PR's all of 2023.

At best we won't see him back until LD if he returns at all.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on November 24, 2022, 05:26:08 PM
We will need two high caliber receivers next year.

Schoen will be in the NFL
Ellingson is too broken..IMO

Those two need to be replaced and are basically our #1 and #2 receiver, so we need a quality #1 and #2 to replace them with.

IMO Demski is still great in his roll, Bailey if he comes back is good in his roll, and while it's an important role he IMO cannot fill a #1 or #2 receiver spot he is a grit guy, Woli is perfect where he is BOO is a great project but not ready to bump Woli or Demski yet, Mc Crea showed flashes but ids a gadget player, ditto to Grant as a receiver. Agadosi showed very well, but has some major injury/durability concerns.

Not sure who hits FA but we need a Lawler caliber plus one more higher end guy or we roll with a gamble on Ellingson again if the price is right for the number 2, and if a new guy or Agadusi earns it over him then it's a great problem to have.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: dd on November 24, 2022, 05:29:54 PM
not sure if shoen will make the NFL, there's lots of competition down south. Ellingson was invisible when he came back from his injury, we need impact recievers and I'd be going after Lawler again to see if he wants to take a run at the Grey Cup next year, he won't be doing that in edmonton.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Blue In BC on November 24, 2022, 05:31:40 PM
We will need two high caliber receivers next year.

Schoen will be in the NFL
Ellingson is too broken..IMO

Those two need to be replaced and are basically our #1 and #2 receiver, so we need a quality #1 and #2 to replace them with.

IMO Demski is still great in his roll, Bailey if he comes back is good in his roll, and while it's an important role he IMO cannot fill a #1 or #2 receiver spot he is a grit guy, Woli is perfect where he is BOO is a great project but not ready to bump Woli or Demski yet, Mc Crea showed flashes but ids a gadget player, ditto to Grant as a receiver. Agadosi showed very well, but has some major injury/durability concerns.

Not sure who hits FA but we need a Lawler caliber plus one more higher end guy or we roll with a gamble on Ellingson again if the price is right for the number 2, and if a new guy or Agadusi earns it over him then it's a great problem to have.

There will be some good players available but signing free agents can be very expensive. Would love Lawler back but he's not going to come cheap. Some of the players on our roster are going to get raises. Collaros has already and Demski among others will get more.

No telling how much is left to sign any free agents. Depends on who we lose and how it balances out cost versus need.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: buckzumhoff on November 24, 2022, 05:32:47 PM
With Shoen going then should be easy to sign the others.dont want other teams signing them im sure some team will offer more money good to sign them early


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Blue In BC on November 25, 2022, 03:32:01 PM
With Shoen going then should be easy to sign the others.dont want other teams signing them im sure some team will offer more money good to sign them early

Why? Schoen would have been on an ELC deal. He performed at an all star level. We can't replace him with a veteran at that low SMS hit. In that sense it will have zero impact in freeing up money elsewhere across the roster.

If you meant not re-signing Ellingson that might free up enough SMS to sign an equivalent receiver in the same price range.

Can't recall how much the SMS goes up in 2023. However IIRC the ELC level goes up $5K-$10K which will take a bite out of SMS elsewhere. The Global players also get more and a player like Hansen will be free market price.

So something has to give. Where that will be starts with who retires ( saving SMS ) or the team chooses to not re-sign or negotiates lower deals with some players.

We'll get a pretty good idea of the direction the team is taking not too far in the future. Some $$$ info will be available and we can compare what went up or down.



Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Jesse on November 25, 2022, 03:58:04 PM
Probably one FA signing and one rookie - just like this past year.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: theaardvark on November 25, 2022, 10:19:24 PM
I don't think we will have an issue at WR, we won't need to break the bank on a "proven" CFL vet.  Agudosi is still under contract, and our scouts have been very good at finding the next one.  And, no doubt, there will be another Ellingson we pick up... might even be Ellingson.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Donny C on November 25, 2022, 10:32:40 PM
While we might get "Lawler'd" on a couple players, I fear retirement more than defection in this offseason. 

Maybe losing the GC and having "unfinished business" as a rallying cry, we might have a better off season resigning players...

I expect many to re-sign and I will say why in my upcoming article.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Blue In BC on November 25, 2022, 11:31:32 PM
I don't think we will have an issue at WR, we won't need to break the bank on a "proven" CFL vet.  Agudosi is still under contract, and our scouts have been very good at finding the next one.  And, no doubt, there will be another Ellingson we pick up... might even be Ellingson.

Agudosi has played less than 2 complete games before another injury. He could be a good receiver but it's not quite certain yet. He'll be 29 before next TC. Not necessarily that either of those will be issues.

But before you jump on the bandwagon of how good our scouts are finding the next one, consider how many were looked at in TC and beyond in 2021 and 2022 that are long gone. Grant and McCrae both had to start at receiver for a few games this year.

We could find the next Schoen in TC or he might return for 2023.  Or we could have a revolving door as we had 2017-2019 seasons.

Bomber culture may bring free agents to Winnipeg so that's a distinct advantage.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pete on November 26, 2022, 12:47:00 AM
Our culture doesn't seem to mean we attract free agents. Last year we got Ellingson only after we were turned down again by Burnam. We were also looking for a quality db and only we're able to sign glass later in free agency. I do believe it helps in retaining players
As always it comes down to money.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 26, 2022, 01:07:34 AM
Our culture doesn't seem to mean we attract free agents. Last year we got Ellingson only after we were turned down again by Burnam. We were also looking for a quality db and only we're able to sign glass later in free agency. I do believe it helps in retaining players
As always it comes down to money.

Cash counts but a great culture and the chance of winning it all is attractive too, for veteran's testing F.A..



Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: the paw on November 26, 2022, 02:42:18 AM
Probably one FA signing and one rookie - just like this past year.

This makes sense.

I looked at all the potential receivers going to free agency (recognizing that many of them will re-sign with their respective teams.  I ruled out guys who were in the twilight of their career (Burnham, Arceneaux, Darvin Adams, etc.). Then I weeded out guys who have zero chance of making it to free agency (Tim White, Dunbar, Eugene Lewis, Begelton, etc.). I then ruled out guys who I wouldn't want here (Duke Williams, Shaq Evans, Kamar Jorden, etc.)

Of what was left, I could see see 4 names that might possibly shake loose in free agency, could produce at a level comparable to Ellingson, and would not break the bank. 

1.  Kenny Lawler - He may want out of Edmonton after this year, and after the injury will not command the same crazy pricing.  Jones will try to reduce his salary for sure, and if he has to move, he may entertain the possibility of returning here.

2.  Reggie White - I think the Als will sign Lewis, and they will give Philpott a greater role in the offence.  if they also keep Weineke they may choose to keep Cole Speiker rather than hang on to Lewis.

3.  Jake Weineke - same as above, but Touchdown Jake didn't find the end zone too often this year, they may keep White and allow Jake to hit the market.

4.  Davarius Daniels - Gittens is going to continue to be the man in the Big Smoke.  If the Argos splash out big dollars for Bo Levi, they may want to save a little money here and keep Cam Phillips and Ambles over Daniels.

None of these options is super likely, but I think these are the kind of guys we would be on the lookout for. 


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Blue In BC on November 26, 2022, 01:22:02 PM
This makes sense.

I looked at all the potential receivers going to free agency (recognizing that many of them will re-sign with their respective teams.  I ruled out guys who were in the twilight of their career (Burnham, Arceneaux, Darvin Adams, etc.). Then I weeded out guys who have zero chance of making it to free agency (Tim White, Dunbar, Eugene Lewis, Begelton, etc.). I then ruled out guys who I wouldn't want here (Duke Williams, Shaq Evans, Kamar Jorden, etc.)

Of what was left, I could see see 4 names that might possibly shake loose in free agency, could produce at a level comparable to Ellingson, and would not break the bank. 

1.  Kenny Lawler - He may want out of Edmonton after this year, and after the injury will not command the same crazy pricing.  Jones will try to reduce his salary for sure, and if he has to move, he may entertain the possibility of returning here.

2.  Reggie White - I think the Als will sign Lewis, and they will give Philpott a greater role in the offence.  if they also keep Weineke they may choose to keep Cole Speiker rather than hang on to Lewis.

3.  Jake Weineke - same as above, but Touchdown Jake didn't find the end zone too often this year, they may keep White and allow Jake to hit the market.

4.  Davarius Daniels - Gittens is going to continue to be the man in the Big Smoke.  If the Argos splash out big dollars for Bo Levi, they may want to save a little money here and keep Cam Phillips and Ambles over Daniels.

None of these options is super likely, but I think these are the kind of guys we would be on the lookout for. 

Nobody would complain if we got Lawler back. However he was earning $300K in Edmonton. He may still end up as one of the top 3 paid receivers in the CFL. I don't know where I'd draw the line on thinking he's unaffordable. That's a factor of how much he gets and where we have to give up another player or players as a result.

We're going to need to increase salaries for Demski and Bailey already, so it's a tough financial decision in the receiving corps.

If we can keep them ( I expect we will ) and convince Schoen to return we'd be in good shape.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Jesse on November 26, 2022, 02:34:34 PM
This makes sense.

I looked at all the potential receivers going to free agency (recognizing that many of them will re-sign with their respective teams.  I ruled out guys who were in the twilight of their career (Burnham, Arceneaux, Darvin Adams, etc.). Then I weeded out guys who have zero chance of making it to free agency (Tim White, Dunbar, Eugene Lewis, Begelton, etc.). I then ruled out guys who I wouldn't want here (Duke Williams, Shaq Evans, Kamar Jorden, etc.)

Of what was left, I could see see 4 names that might possibly shake loose in free agency, could produce at a level comparable to Ellingson, and would not break the bank. 

1.  Kenny Lawler - He may want out of Edmonton after this year, and after the injury will not command the same crazy pricing.  Jones will try to reduce his salary for sure, and if he has to move, he may entertain the possibility of returning here.

2.  Reggie White - I think the Als will sign Lewis, and they will give Philpott a greater role in the offence.  if they also keep Weineke they may choose to keep Cole Speiker rather than hang on to Lewis.

3.  Jake Weineke - same as above, but Touchdown Jake didn't find the end zone too often this year, they may keep White and allow Jake to hit the market.

4.  Davarius Daniels - Gittens is going to continue to be the man in the Big Smoke.  If the Argos splash out big dollars for Bo Levi, they may want to save a little money here and keep Cam Phillips and Ambles over Daniels.

None of these options is super likely, but I think these are the kind of guys we would be on the lookout for. 

I am expecting Schoen to return at some point - though he's the type of person who seems to fins a way.

Lawler is still going to command big money. He had multiple ridiculous offers last year and will get them again. It's up to him whether he wants to take the highest amount possible or come back into the fold. But we'll be offering 100k less than other offers, at least.

Daniels is probably playing with Bo next season - wherever that may be.

White and Weineke are interesting. White is in a position where he might break out and outperform his next  contract.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: the paw on November 26, 2022, 03:01:10 PM
I am expecting Schoen to return at some point - though he's the type of person who seems to fins a way.

Lawler is still going to command big money. He had multiple ridiculous offers last year and will get them again. It's up to him whether he wants to take the highest amount possible or come back into the fold. But we'll be offering 100k less than other offers, at least.

Daniels is probably playing with Bo next season - wherever that may be.

White and Weineke are interesting. White is in a position where he might break out and outperform his next  contract.

I think Schoen's situation is comparable to Zylstra.  He had great production in the CFL and is young.  I think that he will find a way to stick, at least on a PR.  He may end up back in the CFL, but I don't think it will be in 2023.

I think Lawler's last contract was a bit of a perfect storm.  Jones was desperate for a long, tall receiver, and he was coming into camp with no starting QB on his SMS.  BC had Rourke on a ridiculously cheap contract, which gave them unusual latitude in the cap.  These two bidding each other up got to Lawler's unsustainable $300k.  I would say that now that the Elks have signed Cornelius to a longer term deal and Jones has (or should) realize he has other holes to fill on his roster, his offer to Lawler will be more in the $200k range.  As for BC, I am assuming Rourke goes to the NFL, and that BC will have to spend a normal amount on QBs this year.  Plus, almost their entire offensive line are coming up for contracts.  They also don't really have a need with the dominance of Rhymes and the emergence of Hatcher.  $200k may still be too pricey for the Bombers, but I think Lawler will end up in that vicinity.  I could be wrong though....


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Jesse on November 26, 2022, 03:50:36 PM
I think Schoen's situation is comparable to Zylstra.  He had great production in the CFL and is young.  I think that he will find a way to stick, at least on a PR.  He may end up back in the CFL, but I don't think it will be in 2023.

I think Lawler's last contract was a bit of a perfect storm.  Jones was desperate for a long, tall receiver, and he was coming into camp with no starting QB on his SMS.  BC had Rourke on a ridiculously cheap contract, which gave them unusual latitude in the cap.  These two bidding each other up got to Lawler's unsustainable $300k.  I would say that now that the Elks have signed Cornelius to a longer term deal and Jones has (or should) realize he has other holes to fill on his roster, his offer to Lawler will be more in the $200k range.  As for BC, I am assuming Rourke goes to the NFL, and that BC will have to spend a normal amount on QBs this year.  Plus, almost their entire offensive line are coming up for contracts.  They also don't really have a need with the dominance of Rhymes and the emergence of Hatcher.  $200k may still be too pricey for the Bombers, but I think Lawler will end up in that vicinity.  I could be wrong though....

Schoen isn't THAT young though. He'll be 27 when next year's NFL season starts which is a couple years older than Zylstra's attempt.

I can see him being gone for half the season and being a late cut.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on November 26, 2022, 04:53:08 PM
I'd be surprised if Schoen doesn't make it in the NFL....he has a winning caliber personality to go with his skill set plus he is durable, albeit he may have missed a game or two at the end of the season.   He made some good receptions in the GC along with a TD reception,    A few throws by Zach were off or he may have had a few more big receptions,

He is a quality player with leadership attributes which will take him a long way in his career.    If for whatever reason he doesn't make it in the NFL he would likely want to return to Winnipeg however it's not always a slam dunk due to salary cap issues.....as much as I'd dearly love to see him back in Blue and Gold I can't see it happening.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pete on November 26, 2022, 05:00:46 PM
Another free agent wide reciever i think would be worth a look is Derel Walker. His lack of production last year may be partialy due to the team he was on.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Blue In BC on November 26, 2022, 05:07:11 PM
Another free agent wide reciever i think would be worth a look is Derel Walker. His lack of production last year may be partialy due to the team he was on.

He's another of the receivers that may be in the top 3 - 4 best paid receivers. Talent yes but might not be affordable. Would certainly not be opposed to speaking with his agent if he reaches free agency.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on November 26, 2022, 05:15:42 PM
He's another of the receivers that may be in the top 3 - 4 best paid receivers. Talent yes but might not be affordable. Would certainly not be opposed to speaking with his agent if he reaches free agency.
I'm not convinced he's the type of team first guy the Bombers are looking for.....yes he has ability but not sure he fits in with the FIFO culture of the team?   I could be wrong about that as it's only my impression of him


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 26, 2022, 05:49:36 PM
Do not forget Schoen already tried making the NFL and failed. Do not know how many teams tried him out but he could not even scratch the surface down there.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: the paw on November 26, 2022, 06:56:09 PM
Do not forget Schoen already tried making the NFL and failed. Do not know how many teams tried him out but he could not even scratch the surface down there.

He made the practice roster 4x with 3 teams, although only for short stints.  But CFL game film is a better credential than a couple of practices.  Plus, he improved his game up here, learning to be a pro among other things.  I'm not saying he's a mortal lock, but his odds are better now I think.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Jesse on November 26, 2022, 06:56:26 PM
Do not forget Schoen already tried making the NFL and failed. Do not know how many teams tried him out but he could not even scratch the surface down there.

Everyone who's ever come to the CFL took their NFL shot first - doesn't matter in the slightest.

The hurdle for Shoen will be his age.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: the paw on November 26, 2022, 06:59:46 PM
Another free agent wide reciever i think would be worth a look is Derel Walker. His lack of production last year may be partialy due to the team he was on.

I was advocating for the Bombers to take a look at Walker before last year, using much the same logic.  But I think his malaise kind of continued this year, even though guys like Mitchell and Marshall were showing well.  There is a chance he could return to form, but its too risky IMHO.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Blue In BC on November 26, 2022, 07:04:42 PM
I'm not convinced he's the type of team first guy the Bombers are looking for.....yes he has ability but not sure he fits in with the FIFO culture of the team?   I could be wrong about that as it's only my impression of him

I agree with your comments but would still consider speaking with his agent and the player to discuss $$$$ and any concerns. I don't expect to see him as a Bomber but it is a remote possibiliy.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: dizzycamper on November 26, 2022, 07:09:37 PM
I agree with your comments but would still consider speaking with his agent and the player to discuss $$$$ and any concerns. I don't expect to see him as a Bomber but it is a remote possibiliy.

If the Bombers look for import receivers, I'd hope they look at Lawler first... Other than Lawler, 3 guys I like are Reggie White Jr (Alouettes), Steven Dunbar Jr. (Tiger Cats) and last DaVaris Daniels (Argos)..


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pete on November 26, 2022, 07:51:04 PM
The competition for top recievers is going to be heavy  (expensive). Look at Saskatchewan they will be looking to replace Williams. Evans and possible moore. Ottawa needs help. If Edmonton doesnt resign Lawler they will also be in the market. Also with the xfl and usfl there may be less rookies avaiable


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Jesse on November 26, 2022, 08:21:06 PM
I was advocating for the Bombers to take a look at Walker before last year, using much the same logic.  But I think his malaise kind of continued this year, even though guys like Mitchell and Marshall were showing well.  There is a chance he could return to form, but its too risky IMHO.

What does "return to form" even look like?

He had his big season with prime Mike Reilly in 2016. Does anyone expect him to return to that?


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: the paw on November 26, 2022, 08:45:52 PM
What does "return to form" even look like?

He had his big season with prime Mike Reilly in 2016. Does anyone expect him to return to that?

I don't think he gets back to 1500 yds again.  But for 5 years you could basically count on him for 1000-1200 yds and 7-8 TDs over a full season.

The crap show with Elizondo was his lowest point.  He rebounded a little this past season in terms of yds, but TDs are way down.  He just hasn't looked confident out there.

I could see him coming here and putting up 1100 yds and 6 TDs for a reasonable price.  He's a few years younger than Ellingson, and at least for the moment seems more durable.

All the same, I'm not sure I would roll the dice.  But that is what I meant by return to form.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: the paw on November 26, 2022, 08:49:33 PM
The competition for top recievers is going to be heavy  (expensive). Look at Saskatchewan they will be looking to replace Williams. Evans and possible moore. Ottawa needs help. If Edmonton doesnt resign Lawler they will also be in the market. Also with the xfl and usfl there may be less rookies avaiable

I like Kyran Moore and think the Riders would be nuts to give up on him.  But he's the wrong receiver for the Bombers needs.  Demski and Bailey run the routes Moore is best at.  Moore doesn't track the deep throw well, he's more of a short pass and YAC guy.  So I don't think he would be a good fit to replace Schoen.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Jesse on November 26, 2022, 09:17:35 PM
I don't think he gets back to 1500 yds again.  But for 5 years you could basically count on him for 1000-1200 yds and 7-8 TDs over a full season.

That?s just not true.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: dd on November 26, 2022, 09:30:49 PM
Hard no to Walker....he had one good year 6 seasons ago and has never regained that productivity. He wouldn't even make our starting lineup this year


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: the paw on November 26, 2022, 09:34:43 PM
That?s just not true.

2015 = 1100 and 6 TDs
2016 = 1589 and 10 TDs
2017 = 634 yds and 2 TDs over 8 games.
2018 = 875 yds and 8 TDs over 11 games
2019 = 1040 yds and 6 TDs

For the mathematically challenged, 634 over 8 games converts to over 1300 yds in a full season.  875 over 11 games converts to well over 1300 yds in a full season.

Don't like the conversion of partial seasons?  Add those yds up and divide by 5.  It still comes out to 1000 yds per season.

Stop playing silly bugger.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 27, 2022, 05:27:45 PM
I was advocating for the Bombers to take a look at Walker before last year, using much the same logic.  But I think his malaise kind of continued this year, even though guys like Mitchell and Marshall were showing well.  There is a chance he could return to form, but its too risky IMHO.

I think Walker would be a decent option at the right price, he definitely perked up once Lawler went down with injury and the Elks brought in a couple of decent import receivers that are younger and cheaper.  I think he finally realized if he doesn't produce and improve his engagement, he will be replaced with a cheaper import.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Blue In BC on November 29, 2022, 01:53:46 PM
Always interesting to see who gets re-signed in what order. One decision often leads to an answer elsewhere one way or another. To some degree there is always a 1st come, 1st served as SMS is planned out.

Not everyone that deserves a raise is going to fit the plan.

I'd like to see some answers / signings with a few more of our Canadians at the top of my list of importance. Not discounting key imports but the roster starts with our Canadians.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: blue_gold_84 on November 29, 2022, 02:01:03 PM
2015 = 1100 and 6 TDs
2016 = 1589 and 10 TDs
2017 = 634 yds and 2 TDs over 8 games.
2018 = 875 yds and 8 TDs over 11 games
2019 = 1040 yds and 6 TDs

For the mathematically challenged, 634 over 8 games converts to over 1300 yds in a full season.  875 over 11 games converts to well over 1300 yds in a full season.

Don't like the conversion of partial seasons?  Add those yds up and divide by 5.  It still comes out to 1000 yds per season.

Stop playing silly bugger.

Pretty hilarious comment considering you chose to omit his 2021 and 2022 stat lines.

The Bombers can do better than an aging Derel Walker.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 29, 2022, 02:27:25 PM
Pretty hilarious comment considering you chose to omit his 2021 and 2022 stat lines.

The Bombers can do better than an aging Derel Walker.
I agree I do not think Walker can be a fit here.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: the paw on November 29, 2022, 02:34:35 PM
Pretty hilarious comment considering you chose to omit his 2021 and 2022 stat lines.

The Bombers can do better than an aging Derel Walker.

Try to follow the thread of conversation.  The discussion was about whether Walker, after two down seasons, could return to form.  Someone asked what a return to form would look like and I mentioned his strong 5 year run.  Someone said that wasn't true, and I provided the data.  Q.e.d.

If you are going to weigh in, at least read the thread...


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: theaardvark on November 29, 2022, 03:22:21 PM
Ellingson was a great add in, for the price and leadership.  I don't think any of the other aging vets out there will be his combination of leadership and talent, most seem to be me-me-me hotdogs, talent, sure, but leadership/mentorship, no.

Lawler is certainly worth another big paycheck, and we won't be in the bidding for him...

We will lose some players again to the NFL, my concern is there may be some players, either current or potential, that are going to "stay home" and play in one of the new leagues.  I don't think we will be hurt by this as much as some teams will, but I can see it stunting the growth that we've been used to recently.  As much as the CFL gets NFL eyes on a player, XFL/USFL through nothing other than exposure and proximity, will get more.  I can see players foregoing the CFL bigger potential paychecks and longer career for that dream of an NFL shot.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pete on November 29, 2022, 04:52:40 PM
Ellingson was great in the first half of the season but once he got hurt wasnt the same. I was dissappoined in the playoff games where I was hoping his exxperience and talent would make a difference, Im not sure we resign him as we may want to use the $ towards a top younger reciever, (unless we can sign him for a lower cap hit)


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Blue In BC on November 29, 2022, 05:32:17 PM
Nice start. 3 of the big guns signed since the Grey Cup.  About 1every 3 days. Keep up the good work Walters.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pete on December 01, 2022, 11:06:41 PM
I don't normally like Chris Jones, but have to say I admire that he makes the decision to release players early to give them a better chance to resign elsewhere or make other plans.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Blue In BC on December 02, 2022, 01:31:59 PM
I don't normally like Chris Jones, but have to say I admire that he makes the decision to release players early to give them a better chance to resign elsewhere or make other plans.

What about when he makes 6 or more roster changes every week during the season? He's a putz.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pete on December 02, 2022, 02:10:58 PM
Like I said I'm not a fan either, but he's honest with his players if they are not in his plans.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: theaardvark on December 02, 2022, 04:00:23 PM
I don't normally like Chris Jones, but have to say I admire that he makes the decision to release players early to give them a better chance to resign elsewhere or make other plans.

Did he?  This was for the players sake?  Sheldon and Lussier-South were not pending FA's..

The releases put Jones in the news, again, when nothing else is going on.  By making these releases, he is positioning himself in a different way than other GMs.  He has declared to other GM's his interests and telegraphed his moves, for what advantage? 

There are reasons GM's "play their cards close to their chest".  Sure, if you are avoiding a roster bonus situation on a player you do not intend to continue with, you release early.  Otherwise, unless that player has requested out, this move does not strengthen a GM's position.  You can leave these guys on the roster for the FA day scramble, or release them early so other teams can decide their action on them at their leisure.

Sorry, can't see this as a smart move, and as far as "doing it for the players", I'm sure every player is just waiting for the call that the worst team in the league is not interested in going forward with you, so they are letting you go to pursue other opportunities.  Great news...


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: the paw on December 02, 2022, 06:16:15 PM
I don't normally like Chris Jones, but have to say I admire that he makes the decision to release players early to give them a better chance to resign elsewhere or make other plans.

I don't think he is being generous or kind, I think he is following a strategy.

By releasing guys he has no plans for, he sends a signal to pending free agents that there are positions open.  Also, if other teams bite on any of the released players they diminish their budget for free agency and lessen his competition for other players he might be interested in. 

For example, if a team signs Decoud (probably the only player on that list with tread left on the tires) then that team will be one less bidder for any other long, lean cornerback that hits free agency. 

It does work to the player's advantage as well, so it is a win-win way to go. 


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 02, 2022, 06:34:13 PM
Like I said I'm not a fan either, but he's honest with his players if they are not in his plans.

I may be the only person that likes Jones honesty and the colour he brings to the CFL, he took on a difficult situation and he gives players an opportunity to prove they can play when others won't.  In the long-term he's proved his methods work and his judgement is sound, we'll see if the Elks improve next season or continue to flounder.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Jesse on December 02, 2022, 06:55:45 PM
I may be the only person that likes Jones honesty and the colour he brings to the CFL, he took on a difficult situation and he gives players an opportunity to prove they can play when others won't.  In the long-term he's proved his methods work and his judgement is sound, we'll see if the Elks improve next season or continue to flounder.

Honestly didn't hear one word about him all season. I completely forget most of the time who the Elks coach is.

Seems to only make headlines when he's winning.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pigskin on December 02, 2022, 08:18:38 PM
We are getting a little off topic with all the talk about Jones. Let's try and keep this about the Bombers free agents or possible free agents.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pete on December 02, 2022, 08:52:09 PM
Of our free agents who do you think may not get resigned -unless they accept a substantial pay cut. My thoughts are:
Nick Taylor ,,,going to be 35... we have a number of younger options,,parker,lawrence, holms, houston
Jeffcoat  ..we're paying a lot of money for someone who seems injured a lot  (sonce 2018 never played more than 12 games and often when he does play isnt 100%)
Hardrick..  injuries again starting to increase as he gets older as does his effectiveness
Ellingson  ..will be 34 , I thought he was great in the first half of the year until injuries hit

We do need to get younger


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: M.O.A.B. on December 02, 2022, 08:57:08 PM
I think we'll move on from Ellingson.

Hardrick will retire as a Bomber but not yet this year.

Jeffcoat, I'm not sure. He's not that young at 31 and did not complete a full-season.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 02, 2022, 09:01:36 PM
I think we'll move on from Ellingson.

Hardrick will retire as a Bomber but not yet this year.

Jeffcoat, I'm not sure. He's not that young at 31 and did not complete a full-season.

Jeffcoat can still play at a high level, re-watched the G.C. last night and he was harassing MBT repeatedly throughout the first half.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pete on December 02, 2022, 09:23:53 PM
Jeffcoat can still play at a high level, re-watched the G.C. last night and he was harassing MBT repeatedly throughout the first half.
then in the second half he was injured and we had to play short handed..one of the key abilities is availability


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Jesse on December 03, 2022, 12:21:52 PM
I certainly don't expect Nick Taylor back at this point in his life/career.

Hardrick is a virtual lock to return, imo. Walters has to have an eye on the future with our OL, of course.

I don't know what to do with Jeffcoat. For what it's worth, Jon Hodge has said multiple times to expect him to re-sign shortly.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Sec223 on December 03, 2022, 01:53:43 PM
I certainly don't expect Nick Taylor back at this point in his life/career.

Hardrick is a virtual lock to return, imo. Walters has to have an eye on the future with our OL, of course.

I don't know what to do with Jeffcoat. For what it's worth, Jon Hodge has said multiple times to expect him to re-sign shortly.

Bombers need a beast in the middle to free up  pass rushers. This is  probably be the last year having the "band" all together. Always need to be injecting youth and making the tough decisions.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: buckzumhoff on December 03, 2022, 03:13:53 PM
Eingson is good we just didnt throw to him. Need to air the ball out more often. Need to sign Demski and like to see another good running back on the team.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 03, 2022, 03:31:15 PM
then in the second half he was injured and we had to play short handed..one of the key abilities is availability

Jeffcoat actually went down in the 4th Q so he only missed the last 10 minutes.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pete on December 03, 2022, 06:27:28 PM
Jeffcoat actually went down in the 4th Q so he only missed the last 10 minutes.
which is where we lost the game


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pigskin on December 03, 2022, 07:25:33 PM
I really liked GE2 play in the first half of the season. But he has been injuries a lot the past two seasons, and he will be 34 next season. At $175K, he is a big?


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: dd on December 03, 2022, 09:20:22 PM
Holy smokes, there a lot of blame to go around, but a player getting injured is not the reason we lost. We couldn?t handle the blitz from hardricks side of the line, so it?s blocking scheme, and lack of adjustments that cost us this game. Collaros had zero time to throw so our offensive production suffered terribly. But saying we lost because someone got hurt and it?s his fault he got hurt, c mon man, that?s ridiculous.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: DM83 on December 04, 2022, 09:58:02 AM
Not really.  When did Toronto do anything? When Jeffcoat was out.  At first I didn?t think it matters, we rotated guys in, all the time.  However in hindsight, Jeffcoat being out, and. The argos running wild seemed to have an efect.

We need a real convert kicker. Lol!


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: Pete on December 04, 2022, 07:30:13 PM
Holy smokes, there a lot of blame to go around, but a player getting injured is not the reason we lost. We couldn?t handle the blitz from hardricks side of the line, so it?s blocking scheme, and lack of adjustments that cost us this game. Collaros had zero time to throw so our offensive production suffered terribly. But saying we lost because someone got hurt and it?s his fault he got hurt, c mon man, that?s ridiculous.
We were;nt talking about whose fault it was,, rather about Jeffcoats worth to the team when hes injured so often. and the effect it has on the team throughout the year. The grey cup was just another example of that. Can we afford to tie up 175k ? Hes a great player when healthy but his paycheck should reflect his susceptability to injury


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: the paw on December 04, 2022, 08:27:07 PM
We were;nt talking about whose fault it was,, rather about Jeffcoats worth to the team when hes injured so often. and the effect it has on the team throughout the year. The grey cup was just another example of that. Can we afford to tie up 175k ? Hes a great player when healthy but his paycheck should reflect his susceptability to injury

Should it though?  If a player gets a 6 game injury, the club gets SMS relief, so that's not an issue.

You need reliable players in your line up.  It isn't useful to have a key player on and off your roster simply because you got a discount.  If a player is a consistent bandaid (and I'm not saying that's the case with Jeffcoat) then the decision is whether to move on or not, not how cheap we can get him.

Having said that, no one can guarantee availability, there is always a chance of injury for any player.  But I think you have to pay a player their value and assume they are going to be there most of the time.


Title: Re: Potential Bombers free agents 2023
Post by: dd on December 04, 2022, 11:08:57 PM
Not really.  When did Toronto do anything? When Jeffcoat was out.  At first I didn?t think it matters, we rotated guys in, all the time.  However in hindsight, Jeffcoat being out, and. The argos running wild seemed to have an efect.

We need a real convert kicker. Lol!
Exactly. You can have every player in your lineup stay 100% healthy, but if you can't kick reliably in this league, you ain't winning. Don't worry about who got hurt, just worry about who didn't do their job, and injury didn't have anything to do with his misses.