Game of the Year. Given the Grey Cup record between the Bombers and Argos over the past several years, the Bombers are due for a Grey Cup win. All important hands are on deck including the 2022 CFL MOP - our Zach Collaros. Big questions - who is the better team - who has the most desire to win - who will execute best in the biggest game of the year?
The 48-Primer is here....
https://www.bluebombers.com/2022/11/18/48-hour-primer-109th-grey-cup/
In: No Changes
Out: No Changes
Blue Bomber Depth Chart...
https://twitter.com/Wpg_BlueBombers/status/1593989978828115969/photo/1
This is our game! Let's Go Bombers!
We left late yesterday from Calgary and are in Moosejaw now. Today is a SPA day and Casino day and first thing after breakfast tomorrow my gang of 2 head to the stadium (wives staying back in the hotel and getting another day at the SPA). We have full winter gear on and ready for whatever happens. Our hosts will pick us up at their offices tomorrow morning - take us for a lunch and then we all head to the game. I should have asked where we are seating but I know it is on the home side (they are long time season ticket holders). So the mix is 2 Bomber Fans and 6 Rider Fans - all long time friends and business associates.
We were going to head back to Calgary post game but given the time frames involved we decided to overnight back in Moosejaw and then head back to Calgary on Monday morning early.
To all Bomber fans attending the game....bring it loud and proud...and thank you for being the best fans in the CFL!!
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on November 19, 2022, 05:52:00 PM
To all Bomber fans attending the game....bring it loud and proud...and thank you for being the best fans in the CFL!!
YES SIR Look for GOLD MEMBER behind todays TSN panel.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on November 19, 2022, 05:58:00 PM
YES SIR Look for GOLD MEMBER behind todays TSN panel.
Looking for you Goldie!!!
Foxcroft is the head official for the Grey Cup
LFG
Been watching the Saturday grey cup, and I must say, Lapo definitely adds another dimension to the TSN coverage. His breakdown and explanation of basic run plays with the Regina women?s team walking through it then showing Argo and bomber highlights of them executing the same run plays brings a much needed and appreciated element to the broadcast.
It?s good to see the various players from the past make guest appearances, but these educational segments are exactly what TSN and the CFL should be running to educate the fan base. Well done Lapo, your explanations are fantastic I just don?t get why your teams couldn?t win for you as he definitely knows his Playbook
Quote from: The Zipp on November 19, 2022, 08:39:16 PM
Foxcroft is the head official for the Grey Cup
Ugh...not First-Down Foxcroft?! What happened to Proulx? He always scores better than Foxcroft. Did they think it was unfair Proulx gets it every single year? Ugh. Well, it cold be worse, it cold be Valesi or (now defunct) Murphy.
I'm predicting a big air game. We'll still run, and run creatively, but it'll be harder than the WDF. Muamba is no slouch. Some hoggie will be tasked with bulldozing him, or it'll look like the '19 WDF where Solly shutdown our run game. No McManis, that hurts them. Their DL doesn't scare me. But Zach needs 100% protection. One sack or tackle and he's done.
Is this the first game this entire year where there was no depth chart change for us?? I can't recall one: so many injuries and tweaks.
Quite surprised Houston didn't get on. Rough on him. Find a way to get that kid a ring? MBT is going to pick on Lawrence. Maybe BA can help out strong side.
We'll need to limit TOR run game or life will be very hard. I don't think TOR will lean too heavily on the run, but if it works they'll use it to open up the pass. TOR will NOT try to be a run-mostly team (unless they are up in the 4th).
E gad, really, he scores higher, in what aspects?? I don?t have a preference to any ref, umpire etc, they all do a decent enough job and all take turns at whiffing on calls, it?s a tough job. Why the nickname first down foxCroft??
Just saw on TSN that the Houston INT from that diving catch was the #1 play of the year. And we're benching the guy for the GC! Sheesh
Quote from: TecnoGenius on November 20, 2022, 02:03:29 AM
Just saw on TSN that the Houston INT from that diving catch was the #1 play of the year. And we're benching the guy for the GC! Sheesh
It?s not like he made the interception, had the receiver caught the ball like any receiver should, that plays a TD, and maybe that?s why he?s on the sideline as that play was more fluke than anything
Officially Grey Cup day! We are the Blue Bombers and we will prevail!
Will be tough to win vs the Argos but I do expect both teams will try to run the ball much more often given the cold conditions and Collaros ankle. The Argos are a very good running team with Harris and Oulette combo. The Bombers will lose the game if they can't stop the run.
The temp in Regina looks ok, but looks like it?ll be a gusty wind.
I watched last years grey cup last night and we certainly didn't dominate that game. Wind was a factor - Sergio as perfect...Zach wasn't spectacular by any means. We made plays when we needed to and hamilton made mistakes. I wouldn't be surprised if todays game was similar.
Biggest worries:
Kicking
Stopping the run
Zach's health
I see Keion Adams is a GTD, hope he does play as he has been a benefit to the rotation at end.
If we can stop the run we should win. Make MBT throw the ball.
Quote from: dd on November 20, 2022, 02:00:16 AM
E gad, really, he scores higher, in what aspects?? I don?t have a preference to any ref, umpire etc, they all do a decent enough job and all take turns at whiffing on calls, it?s a tough job. Why the nickname first down foxCroft??
I'd like to know as well. Anyone?
m.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on November 20, 2022, 01:47:34 AM
Ugh...not First-Down Foxcroft?! What happened to Proulx? He always scores better than Foxcroft. Did they think it was unfair Proulx gets it every single year? Ugh. Well, it cold be worse, it cold be Valesi or (now defunct) Murphy.
Ugh! Makes me think the fix is in.
Defensive end Keion Adams has been downgraded to OUT. Defensive tackle Ricky Walker has been added to the active roster.
Starting to get a bit nervous...
Quote from: The Zipp on November 20, 2022, 09:02:16 PM
Defensive end Keion Adams has been downgraded to OUT. Defensive tackle Ricky Walker has been added to the active roster.
I guess that helps defend inside running but no rotation for our DE's. We'll see more 34 type defences with Gauthier, Briggs and Cole possibly seeing reps.
Quote from: The Zipp on November 20, 2022, 09:30:00 PM
Starting to get a bit nervous...
You panic every game. I remain unconcerned
No turnovers and keep zach upright, then we win this going away.
Game on! Go Blue!
Quote from: bluengold204 on November 20, 2022, 09:42:44 PM
You panic every game. I remain unconcerned
I do get butterflies...this is a game the Bombers should win
The pre game band sucks
Kate is great.
Quote from: DM83 on November 20, 2022, 10:13:56 PM
The pre game band sucks
I don't hate them. Probably better than the halftime show. Glenn prob wants to interview them
Quote from: The Zipp on November 20, 2022, 10:14:44 PM
I don't hate them. Probably better than the halftime show. Glenn prob wants to interview them
Ugh. I wonder if he ever rewatched his Keith Urban interview and cringed like I did.
With the way Bombers played during this regular season I'm feeling good.
Winning the coin toss is a great start.
Focus! That's going to be the key. I want all Blue Bomber fans to be fully focused on the game rather than being passed out drunk in some snowbank. So stay off the sauce.
I've had my pregame meal of rotini with marinara sauce and mushrooms to give me the slow release energy I'm going to need to maintain my focus for four quarters.
:)
Squeaker for Boris...
Grey cup jeffcoat is a beast
We needed that turnover to change the momentum, it was all argos, our offense has got to get on track and move the ball and generate some points on this series
Come on buck.
Let's try something a bit new on 2nd and 4
Not a great throw
I really hope Zach gets it together...the rust is off now....cmon MOP lets light it up in the 2nd
Collaros not looking himself
Quote from: bluengold204 on November 20, 2022, 11:12:51 PM
Collaros not looking himself
Looking like last years grey cup Zach...slow start
Thank god Bethel-Thompson has missed some throws or we?d already be in a decent hole.
And apparently there isn?t much wind which means our kicking game has potentially left 3 points on the board because if we had Medlock or Castillo, we probably try a 50 yarder instead of punt in the first quarter.
Our kicking game hurts, they went for a fg at 42 and got three. We had to to punt at the 43.
There is Bomber football. Not sure what Buck was thinking having Prokup come in on first down but it all paid off
Hardrick moved early on the TD...
Quote from: Tehedra on November 20, 2022, 11:22:22 PM
Our kicking game hurts, they went for a fg at 42 and got three. We had to to punt at the 43.
Shaky for sure
Very close to offside on Hardrick..
But no call so TD...grinches...
Definite procedure call , not sure how the ref and lineman missed it, but we ll take the non call
Lol, that?s why MOS is the coach and I sit on my couch (well, one of them), that kick barely had the distance. He probably wouldn?t have had the distance on the 50 yarder.
Very good fg from leggio to put us up by three
Our secondary was a tad soft toward the end.
Well Leggs and defence had a great first half....a little more air on his balls and Schoen has two tds....he had the defender best...ahhhhhhhh....game of inches...Zach eat a snickers and let's do it in the 2nd half!!!!
I?ll take that lead into the half.
Wow are there a ton of empty seats from the league?s best fans.
I guess the empty seats are due to stubblejumpers thinking the greenies would be there and buying tickets early (very early) and then reality set in and they couldn't unload them..
MBT is singing the halftime show ??
Who in the *@#$ are these on the halftime show.
Is this. The worst ever?
Ok the. Racing dogs would be way better. This is the worst.
Quote from: Knocker42 on November 21, 2022, 12:02:30 AM
I guess the empty seats are due to stubblejumpers thinking the greenies would be there and buying tickets early (very early) and then reality set in and they couldn't unload them..
That?s too bad they couldn?t unload them but they could have then donated them to Regina youth football vs have no one go, some little football players would have loved to have been at that stadium for the game live
Leggs kickoff are always short with Tor fielding the ball at the 20 yard line, the last kickoff the Tor player caught it on the 25, with the return they were at their 47 yard line. Leggs has been kicking them like this all season. That will need to improve for next year, can't keep giving teams great starting field position.
Defence has come to play - too soft on the Argos last possession
Not bucks best play calling IMO - maybe he is seeing something and the guys aren't executing ??
Zach has looked off - I don't think it's the ankle, he looked a bit off last game too - colder weather not his friend?
We shouldn't lose but this game is close enough and anything can happen...if we get up 14 points I think we lock it down. Not sure we can get up that much though.
How many crap songs are these guys gonna sing???
Horseman. I thought the same thing.
The defense. Seems to have. Befuddled Macleod. Zac has missed a couple of. Big throws and almost intercepted twice.
On the second play of the game? They ran a dive, ht if Zac would have kep t he or the option back. Had nobody covering the sweep or pitch to the back. Maybe. We will see. That second half.
Kind of shocked there are not a lot of screen passes, but both defenses do swarm to the ball..
Quote from: The Zipp on November 21, 2022, 12:14:57 AM
How many crap songs are these guys gonna sing???
That is some disgustingly bad "entertainment" right there.
Too many,,,.
?.that was painful. CFL, that sucked.I have muted it, switched to NFL, and finally turned it all off.
Sure hope the Bombers were not listening to that crap. They will all be puking.
Well that explains why I ve never heard of any of the half time guys......they suck!!!
I know they were stuck to get someone, but really, that?s the best you could get???
Not a good start to the second half.
Terrible punt
That was the worst possible start to the half. Let?s go boys!
Bombers still watching the halftime show.
Shake it off and play our game...
Worst punt of the year and they get a decent return and boom, we re down 4. Our offense has got to get going !!!
Poor punt by Leggs, Tor kicker is kicking to our 3 yard line, Leggs can only kickoff to the 20, instant field position. Tor has come out here in the 3rd quarter and is bringing it, buckle up blue Bomber fans.
Ellingson is absolutely invisible tonight. We ll be looking to replace him this off season.
Prokup for MVP?
Quote from: Tiger on November 21, 2022, 12:46:44 AM
Prokup for MVP?
I was thinking about the awards. The only one standing out to me at this point is Schoen.
Dialling up a defensive TD here
Why the hell do they keep kicking it short resulting in possession at or beyond the 40 yard line.
Gray got dog walked
Quote from: Knocker42 on November 21, 2022, 12:02:30 AM
I guess the empty seats are due to stubblejumpers thinking the greenies would be there and buying tickets early (very early) and then reality set in and they couldn't unload them..
The odd thing is that most people kept the prices the same, like $1000 per. If they had lowered them, they would have pulled in local people.
Hopefully Buck can do something to counter the pressure on Zach.
Quote from: elder on November 21, 2022, 01:01:50 AM
Hopefully Buck can do something to counter the pressure on Zach.
Yeah. Have time adjustments I?d have to give the Argos so far.
Quote from: kronic on November 21, 2022, 01:03:48 AM
Yeah. Have time adjustments I?d have to give the Argos so far.
Agreed for half time adjustments but we still have this
Grant is amazing
I don't think prukop held the ball correctly on the convert
Well fans were saying it all season. Missed converts could cost us the Cuo and it just might!
It?s near Xmas right?
Please send us a place kicker
Quote from: Tehedra on November 21, 2022, 01:06:05 AM
Agreed for half time adjustments but we still have this
Agreed on THAT!
Grant absolutely breaks the Argos backs!!!
What a bone headed play by Thomas!!! You gotta play smarter than that
Why????
Bad call.
You have a MOP qb and you make your 3rd stringer throw
Char Kelly show?
That is on Buck...
Just absolutely ridiculous to put prukop in and have him throw
Collaros is not a cold weather qb. Missing open guys all night. He looks really uncomfortable
We need to make a stop on D, it's not a safe lead by all means.
He trips over his own feet. No way that should be over turned.
C'mon D. >:(
Dang!
Missed convert
Our missed convert is going to hurt.... we should have 24 this is going to come down to that point
@#$%& LEGGS as of now this is all on YOU!!!!
getting very nervous about this
Collaros has been terrible
It looks like that's it.
Collaros is injured. He can not push off his back foot causing his throws to be terrible.
Still, had the game in control until that terrible call to have Prukop throw it deep.
expect Argos to put a heavy dose of Harris and Oullette
Quote from: The Zipp on November 21, 2022, 01:37:45 AM
Collaros has been terrible
He hasn?t been great, but have to give some credit to the Argos D. They?re better than I gave them credit for.
Still not over. Hold ?em to 3 boys.
Sorry, but we all knew Leggs bleep ups would cost us...and in the GC it's the difference....now INT #2 I'm on Zach....
Defence has to do it and so it now!
We need a freaking INT
That's game... good season all, three peat won't be in the cards unfortunately. Hope everyone enjoys the office season.
Leggs will win this! If nor Grant. Go!
Wow
Man, we?ve had almost every break in this game. If we don?t win, we really don?t deserve it.
Blocked fg!!!
That's it.
That will be it
Still an awesome run we?ve had.
How did that happen?
@#$%&-@ .....LEGGS...100% bull...3 missed singles in two weeks...
If we had Castillo still we are GC Dynasty
It's really easy to dislike Toronto.
I am disappointed in the outcome of this game, like everyone else on this board. But... congratulations to Toronto. They pulled it out when it mattered most.
Thanks, Winnipeg, for a great season minus the last 60 seconds of the final game!
After the worst 4th quarter in maybe 3 seasons it still comes down to a game we should have won. When was the last time 2 consecutive field goals were blocked?
The only guy on Toronto I?m happy for is Dinwiddie.
Unfortunately, Toronto was just the better team today. Collaros injury was the difference IMO.
Well time for AH to strut around now, I'm not even watching the post game stuff. I have say ZC did not play well, but neither did Leggs, that missed extra point after Grant's TD cost us.
The play call on the Prukop interception and Legghio cost us this game.
Better luck next year.
Nope this is 100% on LEGGS!
I?m proud of this team sucks to have collards hurt at the wrong time. Still felt they did decent.
It's unfortunate the Liegghio will bear the brunt on most of this loss. No guarantee we'd have won if it went to OT but that's the way some will feel.
Didn't like the play for Prukop to throw deep. Pass maybe but bad decision with the call and poorly executed throw. Kudos to Argos defence pulling out a win.
It was one heck of a season and a though way to lose. Collaros didn't have his best game and that may have been due to his foot injury. He was missing open receivers unfortunately.
Ironic losing 6 Grey Cup games to the Argos.
Leggs cost us the win streak and he cost us the Grey Cup. No sugar coating it. Let's find ourselves a real kicker.
Congrats to T.O congrats to Henoc..congrats AH33 wow props 3 straight! Congrats Dinwidie. .
LEGGS man work hard this offseason, let this emotion make you better...
Quote from: BLUEBOMBER on November 21, 2022, 01:58:27 AM
Leggs cost us the win streak and he cost us the Grey Cup. No sugar coating it. Let's find ourselves a real kicker.
Giving up the long punt return. Giving up the Prukop int. Giving up the Collaros int. Having our last FG blocked.
Yeah right.
It's going to be a long off season listening to this.
Collaros looked fine to me. Our offense struggled tonight though. Argos ate us alive by blitzing hardricks side and we didn?t adjust for it. Repeated sacks from that side of the field. Argos played better than us, simple as that.
And we ALL knew if it came down to the kicking game, we lose this ball game. So no surprise at all. i guess the only surprise is it got blocked before he missed it
Legs definitely gonna find a truck load of manure on his driveway when he gets home
At the end of the day inches make the difference..but players have to do what players are paid to do...T.O ayed really good...but regardless we should have faced off in OT...sorry there is no excuse for missed PAT...the blocked FG was a baller play, T.O deserves that..yes we made other mistakes as did they.....but you can. NOT miss PATS...thats a guaranteed point, and absolutely no excuse zero zilch, maybe we lose in OT, but 100% LEGGS cost us a dynasty
Great game, two good teams and another great year of CFL ball.
Sign as many players as possible and same coaches please
Quote from: Horseman on November 21, 2022, 01:55:21 AM
Well time for AH to strut around now,
Congrats to Andrew Harris for this third consecutive Grey Cup win.
Plus Zac was awful, as was hardwick.
Bombers earned the loss. They were the worst team, but give Toronto another five minutes and they probably would have found a way to lose it.
Great for Dinwiddie, Muamba, and Andrew.
Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on November 21, 2022, 02:14:47 AM
At the end of the day inches make the difference..but players have to do what players are paid to do...T.O ayed really good...but regardless we should have faced off in OT...sorry there is no excuse for missed PAT...the blocked FG was a baller play, T.O deserves that..yes we made other mistakes as did they.....but you can. NOT miss PATS...thats a guaranteed point, and absolutely no excuse zero zilch, maybe we lose in OT, but 100% LEGGS cost us a dynasty
Agree 100%. Very hard fought game, wish it could have come down to over time, but you?re 100% right, losing the opportunity because we missed the point after, brutal. And his kickoffs are always 20 yds short so we give up field position right off the bat. We HAVE to address that and that means getting another kicker in to do the job, but we ve been saying that since preseason. Hopefully now they make the change
Really happy for Dinwiddie. I heard in the pregame 8 of his 9 coaches bailed on him to start the year. In your face losers, turns out dinwiddie wasn?t the problem, you guys were!!!
Wow, just saw chad Kelly post game interview, super intense dude!!!
OL was run over most of the night. BO20 ran well but missed a number of blocks. Not sure why Purkup was in there throwing a bomb. ZC8 was off most of the night.
We couldn?t pickup Toronto?s blitz and Collaros was pressure most of the night. Had he had time, different outcome altogether. Our offensive woes were a result of poor o line play
Gray and Hardrick had bad games in pass blocking.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on November 21, 2022, 03:54:52 AM
Gray and Hardrick had bad games in pass blocking.
The Argos' pass rush was ferocious pretty much all game. Same with the blitz packages.
Pierce made no adjustments to any of that whatsoever. Why was there no play action?
All in all, a very forgettable game if you ask me. The most exciting play was Grant's punt return.
The half-time show stunk, too.
Overall it looked like the Bombers didn't take thr Argos seriously enough to play better... sad..o
Hope this doesnt lead to another 20+ year drought.
Quote from: DM83 on November 21, 2022, 02:17:56 AM
Plus Zac was awful, as was hardwick.
Bombers earned the loss. They were the worst team, but give Toronto another five minutes and they probably would have found a way to lose it.
Great for Dinwiddie, Muamba, and Andrew.
I thought you stopped watching to watch the NFL before the half
Brady was our best player on offence and on that last second and 5 I was yelling "run the ball". Instead a pass knockdown and we kick from 47....still makeable however the Argos made a play and we were denied a 3rd straight Cup. We were moving the ball well on the ground on that last drive after we blocked their FG attempt....we'll never know and instead we get to spend the off season wondering what could have been.
The turning point was Bethel Thompson getting injured and Kelly taking them down the field the way he did....especially on that 2nd and 15 conversion where he escaped the pressure and ran for 20.
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on November 21, 2022, 11:18:46 AM
Brady was our best player on offence and on that last second and 5 I was yelling "run the ball". Instead a pass knockdown and we kick from 47....still makeable however the Argos made a play and we were denied a 3rd straight Cup. We were moving the ball well on the ground on that last drive after we blocked their FG attempt....we'll never know and instead we get to spend the off season wondering what could have been.
The turning point was Bethel Thompson getting injured and Kelly taking them down the field the way he did....especially on that 2nd and 15 conversion where he escaped the pressure and ran for 20.
We just did not prepare for QB runs and we got burned by one. In fairness, why would we. The chances of MBT running were slim and none, and no one in the CFL had any film on Kelly to know what he was capable of.
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on November 21, 2022, 11:18:46 AM
Brady was our best player on offence and on that last second and 5 I was yelling "run the ball". Instead a pass knockdown and we kick from 47....still makeable however the Argos made a play and we were denied a 3rd straight Cup. We were moving the ball well on the ground on that last drive after we blocked their FG attempt....we'll never know and instead we get to spend the off season wondering what could have been.
The turning point was Bethel Thompson getting injured and Kelly taking them down the field the way he did....especially on that 2nd and 15 conversion where he escaped the pressure and ran for 20.
I think some of Kelly's success had to do with JJ94 injury. Walker had Kelly but couldn't wrap him up. CS90 had a very good game with 6 DTs and 1 sack. Thomas and Lawson, missing in action expect for a roughing penalty.
To me what i think was a big issue was Collaris's injury.,,, not because it hampered him physically but but because of the distractions it caused. Because of all the media attention, instead of focusing on beating the argos, his focus was on being able to play versus what he had to do to win. The execution of the offence was weak.and not being able to practice as part of the routine as may have affected this.,
A secondary factor was play calling I cant understand the use of Prukop. His strength is in running on second and less than 4. Having him throw deep balls into double coverage was a complete failure. When he saw the coverage he needed to tuck the ball and make as much yards as he could. Putting Zac in 2nd and long was a recipe for problems.
Quote from: Pigskin on November 21, 2022, 02:08:39 PM
I think some of Kelly's success had to do with JJ94 injury. Walker had Kelly but couldn't wrap him up. CS90 had a very good game with 6 DTs and 1 sack. Thomas and Lawson, missing in action expect for a roughing penalty.
The interior of our DL was not great all year. Depth at DE was never really addressed. That seemed clear in TC and from day one. Injuries to Taylor, Houston and Wilson just added other problems to modify our overall defensive plans.
You can't always find the next Richardson or Jeffcoat to add to a roster but we didn't seem to be looking. That bothered me all year.
Regardless we had a great season and came within a blocker FG of a possible win.
Quote from: Blue In BC on November 21, 2022, 03:45:31 PM
The interior of our DL was not great all year. Depth at DE was never really addressed. That seemed clear in TC and from day one. Injuries to Taylor, Houston and Wilson just added other problems to modify our overall defensive plans.
You can't always find the next Richardson or Jeffcoat to add to a roster but we didn't seem to be looking. That bothered me all year.
Regardless we had a great season and came within a blocker FG of a possible win.
Let's not forget Hansen.
Quote from: Pigskin on November 21, 2022, 03:53:36 PM
Let's not forget Hansen.
I didn't and he added some depth but not really enough IMO. He was best on ST's and we missed him there after his injury.
I don't know who we will lose on the front 7 in free agency and / or by choice. Hopefully we can improve the depth of our DI's next TC.
Sayles, Walker, Thomas and Lawson are all potential free agents. Most of our secondary and LB's as well.
Free agency and adjusting to new SMS hits to re-sign some players means there will be changes. The who and where will be the thing to watch.
Quote from: Blue In BC on November 21, 2022, 03:45:31 PM
The interior of our DL was not great all year. Depth at DE was never really addressed. That seemed clear in TC and from day one. Injuries to Taylor, Houston and Wilson just added other problems to modify our overall defensive plans.
You can't always find the next Richardson or Jeffcoat to add to a roster but we didn't seem to be looking. That bothered me all year.
Regardless we had a great season and came within a blocker FG of a possible win.
Agreed, the depth of the D-line was sadly exposed yesterday, after Jeffcoat went down the cupboard was bare and there was no one left to replace him or to give Willie a break. Chad Kelly may not have been given the time to accomplish anything yesterday if the D-line was kept fresh through rotation as it was in 2019 and 2021.
It has been a looming roster issue all season, they lost Stove and Kongbo in the off-season and did not find adequate replacements, then they lost Hansen and Jeffcoat for much of the season, they tried Mack and Wilcots who only made an impact in the last game he played, before being traded to the Ti-Cats. They brought in Adams from Sask. who has yet to show he belongs and was unable to even dress today, It's a fail in the personnel dept. but an area that can definitely be upgraded in the off-season. On a positive note Lawson and Sayles established themselves well this season and should definitely be brought back next season as key pieces.
I guess Prukop throwing was a tendency breaker.
I think Buck got a little ahead of himself this came, and got caught.
This was a game to "Keep It Simple".
We got a little too fancy at times, and going 2 and out too many times.
The D was good, until Kelly got in and they had no answer.
ST was good, TD return, blocked FG... a little loose on a few covers, but generally good.
The O, sorry, but I think the blame is on the entire O, top to bottom. The Oline, did they get some bad sushi last night? Hardrick whiffing completely on that scak cannot happen. You take the inside guy, every lineman lives by that. Should BO20 have picked him up? Maybe. But you cannot depend on that. We gave up the fewest sacks on the year, and 4 in the GC.
Was Zach injured to the point of changing the gameplan enough that we were not properly prepared or adjusted? We will never know, because MOS would never through Zach or Buck under the bus.
But that's my take. Zach needed more straight drop backs with jumbo team blocking and fast reads to 88, 83, 82, 2... with dump offs to 20 if everyone is covered. 20 on first down, drop back on 2nd.
Not a complex game plan...
Pierce went too deep into his playbook last night on a few occasions, IMO. And at really inopportune times.
Quote from: theaardvark on November 21, 2022, 05:06:06 PM
I guess Prukop throwing was a tendency breaker.
I think Buck got a little ahead of himself this came, and got caught.
This was a game to "Keep It Simple".
We got a little too fancy at times, and going 2 and out too many times.
The D was good, until Kelly got in and they had no answer.
ST was good, TD return, blocked FG... a little loose on a few covers, but generally good.
The O, sorry, but I think the blame is on the entire O, top to bottom. The Oline, did they get some bad sushi last night? Hardrick whiffing completely on that scak cannot happen. You take the inside guy, every lineman lives by that. Should BO20 have picked him up? Maybe. But you cannot depend on that. We gave up the fewest sacks on the year, and 4 in the GC.
Was Zach injured to the point of changing the gameplan enough that we were not properly prepared or adjusted? We will never know, because MOS would never through Zach or Buck under the bus.
But that's my take. Zach needed more straight drop backs with jumbo team blocking and fast reads to 88, 83, 82, 2... with dump offs to 20 if everyone is covered. 20 on first down, drop back on 2nd.
Not a complex game plan...
Jumbo team was out there quite regularly, this is a page Buck borrowed from the Ti-Cat playbook that was rarely seen last season. This setup reduces the receiver group by one, meaning better protection but fewer targets downfield and with the tendency to look for longer passes that Zach embraces, it's more difficult to get open against Zone defences. Woli, Demski and Bailey were not utilized effectively on short to mid range patterns, these 3 players should have been difference makers. I would suggest Buck go back to what served served them so well in the past, home runs work well against weaker teams but a D like the Argos with a strong pass rush aren't going to allow enough time for longer routes to develop.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 21, 2022, 06:16:43 PM
Jumbo team was out there quite regularly, this is a page Buck borrowed from the Ti-Cat playbook that was rarely seen last season. This setup reduces the receiver group by one, meaning better protection but fewer targets downfield and with the tendency to look for longer passes that Zach embraces, it's more difficult to get open against Zone defences. Woli, Demski and Bailey were not utilized effectively on short to mid range patterns, these 3 players should have been difference makers. I would suggest Buck go back to what served served them so well in the past, home runs work well against weaker teams but a D like the Argos with a strong pass rush aren't going to allow enough time for longer routes to develop.
I think the Jumbo was used primarily for running plays... I think it would have been better utilized for passing...
Quick hitters, checkdown to B, there are so many plays that we did not use. Have to wonder if Zach's ankle precluded a lot of quick passes. Does his injury mean he has to set up better? Is there a lack of strength in his stance because the plant foot is weak?
We will never know what influenced the playcalling, but I really think that the injury influenced the play calling (and personnel packages), and I think that this is a learning experience for Buck in dealing with these things and coming up with an effective solution. He certainly has found out what won't work... I think the O floundering comes down to an inexperienced OC in a new situation.
Again, not placing the blame on anyone, it was a team loss. Just suggesting that this loss isn't as bad if we manage to learn from it for next time.
Quote from: theaardvark on November 21, 2022, 06:47:43 PM
I think the Jumbo was used primarily for running plays... I think it would have been better utilized for passing...
Quick hitters, checkdown to B, there are so many plays that we did not use. Have to wonder if Zach's ankle precluded a lot of quick passes. Does his injury mean he has to set up better? Is there a lack of strength in his stance because the plant foot is weak?
We will never know what influenced the playcalling, but I really think that the injury influenced the play calling (and personnel packages), and I think that this is a learning experience for Buck in dealing with these things and coming up with an effective solution. He certainly has found out what won't work... I think the O floundering comes down to an inexperienced OC in a new situation.
Again, not placing the blame on anyone, it was a team loss. Just suggesting that this loss isn't as bad if we manage to learn from it for next time.
All true.
Here's another one that may have hurt us. MBT getting injured causing Kelly to enter the game. It's possible MBT also drives for a TD but normally forcing the # 2 QB into the game is a good thing for the defence. I doubt MBT runs 20 yards for a 1st down. He may have found an open receiver or been forced to try a FG attempt.
That score was the difference in the game.
Quote from: Blue In BC on November 21, 2022, 07:37:05 PM
All true.
Here's another one that may have hurt us. MBT getting injured causing Kelly to enter the game. It's possible MBT also drives for a TD but normally forcing the # 2 QB into the game is a good thing for the defence. I doubt MBT runs 20 yards for a 1st down. He may have found an open receiver or been forced to try a FG attempt.
That score was the difference in the game.
The team was holding MBT to minimal damage. They weren't ready to Kelly, who is a dynamically different QB to MBT. Hall usually makes those adjustments, but somehow was slow to correct.
You might say, the QB getting injured might have been the best thing for the Argos. The team rallies behind the backup...
Finally back in Calgary from the game (and more to the point Moosejaw). I was with two of our Saskatchewan clients and sit with them. There were Bomber fans around us and even two Argo fans. My only comment of value was that it was a great game to watch - a great place to watch a game and great company all around where we sit. I am disappointed naturally however I am confident we will retool and be back next year.
It is always a great year to be a Bomber Fan! Now back to work for the balance of the year before heading off to warmer climates for a long winter break. Taking 3 weeks vacation down to Belize in Jan but have internet access so will keep on top of things.
Quote from: theaardvark on November 21, 2022, 07:55:24 PM
The team was holding MBT to minimal damage. They weren't ready to Kelly, who is a dynamically different QB to MBT. Hall usually makes those adjustments, but somehow was slow to correct.
You might say, the QB getting injured might have been the best thing for the Argos. The team rallies behind the backup...
JJ94 getting hurt didn't help. He was having a pretty good game.
Quote from: Pigskin on November 21, 2022, 10:34:15 PM
JJ94 getting hurt didn't help. He was having a pretty good game.
yeah he might have gotten to Kelly for the sack instead of a 20 yard pickup and critical first down! Walker had him but Kelly to his credit was elusive as hell and more explosive than MBT. .
I want to give credit to Dave Foxgrove and his entire reffing crew in the GC game. They did a tremendous job as there were no iffy calls, all the penalties called were correct and fair, there was not one call that made anyone question it. Congrats to them for the great job. Plus, after sleeping on the game, I have to say Tor was the slightly better team yesterday and earned that win, congrats to the Argos. For the Bombers, flush the result and start working now for next year.
Quote from: Foxhound on November 19, 2022, 03:10:40 AMI'm worried. The Toronto Argonauts have never lost a Grey Cup Game to the Winnipeg Blue Bombers:
11 December 1937 - Winnipeg 3 at Toronto 4
10 December 1938 - Winnipeg 7 at Toronto 30
1 December 1945 - Winnipeg 0 at Toronto 35
30 November 1946 - Winnipeg 6 at Toronto 28
29 November 1947 - Winnipeg 9 at Toronto 10
25 November 1950 - Winnipeg 0 at Toronto 13
But the Argonauts this year won't have home field advantage. Will this be the critical factor jeopardizing their win streak?
???
So the Bombers had to wait a whopping 72 years for a chance to make it right and what did they do?
20 November 2022 - Winnipeg 23 Toronto 24 at Regina
They made it worse despite the change of venue!
>:(
Face it. The Argos have the number of the Bombers at Grey Cup time. When they want to win the Cup, it's the Bombers that they call.
Either that or just too many Bomber fans got too deep into the cups and lost focus on the only Cup that truly mattered:
Quote from: Foxhound on November 20, 2022, 10:42:16 PMFocus! That's going to be the key. I want all Blue Bomber fans to be fully focused on the game rather than being passed out drunk in some snowbank. So stay off the sauce.
Sad.
:-[
Quote from: Horseman on November 22, 2022, 01:24:37 AM
I want to give credit to Dave Foxgrove and his entire reffing crew in the GC game. They did a tremendous job as there were no iffy calls, all the penalties called were correct and fair, there was not one call that made anyone question it. Congrats to them for the great job. Plus, after sleeping on the game, I have to say Tor was the slightly better team yesterday and earned that win, congrats to the Argos. For the Bombers, flush the result and start working now for next year.
There?s nothing like the sting of defeat to motivate you. 2023 will be our year
Quote from: Horseman on November 22, 2022, 01:24:37 AM
I want to give credit to Dave Foxgrove and his entire reffing crew in the GC game. They did a tremendous job as there were no iffy calls, all the penalties called were correct and fair, there was not one call that made anyone question it. Congrats to them for the great job. Plus, after sleeping on the game, I have to say Tor was the slightly better team yesterday and earned that win, congrats to the Argos. For the Bombers, flush the result and start working now for next year.
They did earn the win. They even lost their starting qb for the final quarter but still managed to win it with their greenhorn backup. And it's not like they snuck up on everybody. They had a solid year.
Totally agree on the reffing too.
Quote from: bomb squad on November 22, 2022, 04:17:04 AM
They did earn the win. They even lost their starting qb for the final quarter but still managed to win it with their greenhorn backup. And it's not like they snuck up on everybody. They had a solid year.
Totally agree on the reffing too.
Not sure "losing their starting QB was a negative... fresh legs, more dynamic (but until then unproven) QB that we had no film on... nor had probably practiced for... I think the QB change actually gave them the win. We had MBT figured out and pinned down most of the game...
But getting the "W", regardless of how, is earning it...
The empty seats at the game was an embarrassment rider fans. Seriously, there were a lots of empty seats because disgruntled rider fans wanted to make a point to management. It was horrible. That?s all I can say !
I don't know.If they were making a point to management. I think they thought that riders were going to be in the grey cup and couldn't unload their.tickets
Lots of empty seats, just as many on Stubhub at face plus the weeks before... I don't think there were many "walk ups" for a frigid GC game.
What is surprising is that after not being able to sell them, they did not use them. After tossing $400+ away, why not just go?
I don't think paying for tickets and then not using them is a signal being sent to the team...
Quote from: theaardvark on November 23, 2022, 05:12:35 AM
Lots of empty seats, just as many on Stubhub at face plus the weeks before... I don't think there were many "walk ups" for a frigid GC game.
What is surprising is that after not being able to sell them, they did not use them. After tossing $400+ away, why not just go?
I don't think paying for tickets and then not using them is a signal being sent to the team...
It was
sold out. They tried to re-sell their tickets, and since they couldn't they just didn't show up. There were a few tickets for sale that weren't re-sell during the weeks leading up to the game, but the stadium was essentially sold out.
They just stayed home and watched the game. They call themselves the best fans, and yet they stayed home on a day that was not all that cold. I was there !
I didn't get a chance, due to all the travel and then a big work week, to do my rewatch(es) and big play breakdown of the GC game until now. Ya, and a little bit of "don't want to watch it again" feelings, too. But I did, and there's lots that stands out. It was actually a game of surprising plays, and even a lot of good stuff from our team. Here's my final breakdown:
2Q9:15 Ellingson clutch 2nd down conversion on the too-many-men-TOR play: this is some superb coaching and execution: watch the replay, Ellingson goes scramble rules but they've pre-planned that he'll fake going deep and Ellingson goes completely blind and the instant he turns to look at Zach the ball is on its way for the falling-rail pass. We didn't see that in-season, this was something new, and it was beautiful.
2Q1:06 Demski 15 yards on 1st down with half YAC and beats Muamba and many others in the open field. Great play design and call, and superb execution by Demski. Best O play of the game? These are the plays we needed all night, and mostly didn't get.
3Q10:15 Zach magic with 6 on 6 and pressure city and great scramble-awareness by Schoen. Best Zach play of the game. But even though it's fun, it's a product of a bad O scheme, poor OL protection, and no heat outlet for Zach.
3Q5:38 Brady's best run of the night on the draw. Another great one at 4Q8:08 on 2nd&4.
3Q0:00 Clements plus Sayles make the huge 2nd&2 stop on AH. Best defensive play of the game? That's one hard stop to make.
4Q14:50 Might be Grant's best return TD ever, Argos left and right, real close in, dodging them all like they're standing still, working the perfect path through, where a slight miscalculation gets him tackled.
4Q13:22 Another great Sayles play stuffing AJ at the LoS, otherwise it's a big AJ romp. Beautiful block-shedding a square tackle.
4Q11:26 Prukop throwing an INT: horrific decision by Prukop. I'm pretty sure he has the mandate to run unless the WR is wide open. Instead he throws into what's effectively double coverage, and he horribly underthrows because he doesn't have an arm like Zach. If he puts 5 more yards on that, our guy has a step and catches it over his shoulder and it might be a TD. I would say blame Buck, but I'm sure Prukop was under strict instructions to be smart.
4Q6:11 Pretty sure that blindside block by TOR on Cadwallader during Leake's big return is a foul. Forceful hit back to Argo deadline. Seems to have rattled his brains, too. The game starts to fall apart. You notice who saved the day again? Gauthier: the king of the kick return saves. Dude always anticipates an escape and picks the perfect angle. In any event, we didn't take Leake seriously and he burned us with our awful lane setup. To think that Parker was thaaaaat close to stopping him at zero yards.
4Q5:52 Willie has to do his once-a-game offsides. To be fair, I watched the frames and that RT was starting to lean back at exactly the same time, but his movement wasn't enough to trigger an IP before Willy was deep enough. I feel Willie may have been suckered there. However, he needs to be more aware and watch the ball, not the RT.
4Q5:37 Kelly's game-winning run for 19. If Willie hadn't taken the offsides then he likely doesn't make a first down, but who knows. Biggie and whatever DBs were free were playing too far back expecting a pass. Clements was the spy for AJ, so I don't blame him. But we all know Kelly is a young, running QB so why aren't we spying him? Why did we have Biggie vacate like that on a running QB?
4Q3:44 Why is only Parker tasked with sealing the edge on AJ's TD? What is Hall doing with our LBs? Everyone knows it's a run play on 1st and we stuff the box for a gap run with no contain? Heck, Kelly could have probably run that himself. Embarrassing breakdown at every level.
4Q2:58 Zach's INT: he didn't see Muamba drop back. Not sure TOR ever used that scheme before so Zach probably thought (because of film study) no one would be there. Zach gets tricked every once in a while, and this was a bad time to get tricked. However, in a GC he needs to make those reads and spot what the MIKE is doing. Not like Muamba is a lithe, skinny wallflower that can go unnoticed. And why are we going for a 22 yard pass on 1st&10 with 3 minutes to go? Tons of time to play Bomber ball, and TOR was giving up a ton of space for the under passes.
4Q2:07 Nick Hallett's FG block is sublime. He almost had it on the previous PAT. He had 1/10s longer this time, or he was 1/10s faster, and he gives us the extra life we don't deserve. Just like we play "Leggs looked wide left" on his blocked kick, Bede looked wide right on his. Maybe you can't tell squat about "wide" on these blocks. Might just be optical illusions.
4Q0:56 Zach's pass knocked down by Edwards. This was a critical play and we severely botch it. Buck doesn't think Brady can get us 4 (we can sneak for the extra 1) if we put the heavy package in? We're already in FG range. Why not run it? Ok, so you're passing now, why is Zach staring down intended Demski? TOR obviously has film studied our hot route and we have nothing in the bag of tricks to mix things up? Greg was more open with less heat on that side, but he's crossing at 10 yards out when we only need 5. If he routes out 10 then hustles back for a quick pass to make 5, we have 1st down. Also, Zach could have pump-faked the jumpers. Or why not go deep there? It's cover zero, man coverage, Zach's favorite. Why not do a corner or post to Schoen or Demski? So many things here and we go for the easily defended play and TOR showed us the box-heavy look so we knew there was contain that could pass-knockdown. If anyone is to blame here, it's Buck.
4Q0:52 Blocked FG. This is 100% on Boudreau and Sayles. This FG must be made or we lose the game. There is no concern whatsoever for stopping Banks from returning. We must make a FG or rouge. So why do we have 5 OL in and then Sayles off the LT? Sayles!? We dressed 7 hoggies. Why don't we have Dobson on that left side making sure no one gets through. What does Sayles know about stopping kick-rushers? Who decided this formation? Heads should roll. If a real hoggie is off Bryant's left arm, we make that FG.
To make matters worse, Sayles is the slowest off his mark on the snap, and he thinks he needs to block some imaginary ghost to his left and tries to arm-bar the massive DL who is putting his whole life in that one moment. All the other hoggies are blocking the correct guys, and doing it well, because TOR overloaded the left side.
Techno Overview:
It was a sloppy game by both sides. Yes, it was a lot colder than the thermometer said (I was there). But nearly everything we saw was lacklustre.
TOR out-physicalled us, out coached us, out playcalled us, out-hungered us, out LoS'd us. Not by a ton, but by enough that they got a few extra downs, a few extra yards, a few extra defensive stops, a few extra knockdowns and INTs than we did. I don't think they were the better team, but they were the better team that day.
If Bede had made more FGs (missing 3!) and TOR had taken less penalties, they would have creamed us. We really played that poorly compared to them.
The game was even on "breaks" and "luck". Every time we got a gimmee, they'd get a similar one later. Every time someone scored, the other would score back. No one ever really pulled ahead and put their stamp on the game.
All of WPG's worst fears almost came to pass: that the GC would be decided on a Leggs FG. Perhaps it's better that we'll never know if that FG was going to go in. In my heart, I think he makes it (flags were blowing to the right at that moment, so any slight-left would be correct). And then our D may have gotten a 45s stop if they learned to account for the running QB.
But after a complete rewatch I realize that it was our coaches and coordinators that let us down. Buck was very vanilla (ex-the Prukop pass) and not making good decisions. Hall didn't prep our guys for the possibility of Kelly, and had horrible schemes on the AJ TDs. Letting teams run in TDs on us in the post-season? Unheard of. We don't do that. Make 'em pass it. Boudreau's bad scheme on the final gasp was the final nail in the coffin. How much all of this was due to input on MOS, who knows. But the buck stops with him.
As for Leggs, you can't blame him. The other kicker blew 9 points, I think all 3 from 36? That's basically the same as PAT distance. Leggs blew 2 PAT plus the blocked FG. This isn't on Leggs. Even if we went to OT, 50/50 chance TOR pulls it out anyway.
The saving grace is this may go down as a "classic" GC. Sitting back and trying to detach yourself as a WPG fan, you can see how that 4th Q was wild, exciting, nail-biting, and very entertaining. TOR fans (all 16 of them) must be ecstatic and will watch this as many times as I did the 2019 GC. So in that sense I'm glad for the CFL. But it is painful as we sleep-walked our way to the big sure-thing threepeat.
Now I look forward to revenge in 2023.
Thanks Techno....agree with pretty every thing you posted there. I also thought the turning point was Kelly coming in because MBT wasn't having a great game and was his inconsistent self.....Kelly comes in and moves the ball. We had no film on him whatsoever and he took advantage of it. Also didn't help that JJ was out to help contain him either. Toronto seemed to be finding ways to keep us in the game and yet we allowed them to block a game winning field goal to end the game!
I agree I think we should have run the ball on that 2nd and a sort 5. It would likely have gotten us closer even if we didn't make it and then there's always Prukop to come in on a third down short yardage play.....which we've made all season. That would have also used up most of the clock and allowed us to kick with only seconds on the clock. Perhaps we needed to be more patient there and trust in what had been successful all season.
For the sake of argument lets say we make that kick and go up by 2....there's still 44 seconds on the clock and plenty of time for the Argos to counter with their own FG shot.....
However.....it didn't happen and yes Toronto was the better team on this day as were their coaches. They made two plays more than we did with the pass knockdown AND the blocked FG back to back.