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The Extra Point => Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Tiger on August 08, 2022, 04:55:39 AM

Title: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Tiger on August 08, 2022, 04:55:39 AM
I am feeling pretty good about our team that said it never hurts to take shard look. 

For example, Schoen may get a hard look from the NFL very soon if he keeps playing the way he is, some players are getting older and some may move on for a better contract.

I think the more serious consideration is that other teams will be looking to upgrade this year.  We will have to keep our eyes open and be entertained at how Chris Jones will be in full action!

First cuts are August 16, then 23rd, then 30.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: ModAdmin on August 08, 2022, 05:21:43 AM
Given the current climate of the CFL with the rising number of free agents each year, teams are not going to stand pat even if they are a top tier team.

They are always going to be looking for the next Dalton Shoen or a plethora of other players in the league who, at the end of the season, are going to explore their options with  other CFL or NFL teams. 
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: DM83 on August 08, 2022, 05:43:30 AM
Why is the name of this post " chris Jones Goes Tasmanian Devil?"

Every team will entertain new players at NFL cut down day. Weird topic.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 08, 2022, 01:50:22 PM
However, last year?s move to a three-game preseason coincided with a new approach. That will continue for this year as there will be cuts following each week of the preseason, first from 90 to 85, then to 80, and finally to the final 53-man roster. Here are the dates of those deadlines for 2022:

    Tuesday, August 16: cut from 90 to 85
    Tuesday, August 23: cut from 85 to 80
    Tuesday, August 30: cut from 80 to 53


Teams will be looking at some cuts to fill out PR lists.

When does the CFL increase our PR back to 17? Must be around the beginning of September.

NOTE: The XFL starts their TC at the end of January so CFL teams may want to get a jump on some candidates to have a look see.




Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 08, 2022, 03:20:36 PM
I can't clearly recall the last time the Bombers brought in an unknown NFL cut mid-season, can't be Travis Bond?  If anyone has better recall please enlighten me with a few names.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 08, 2022, 03:47:19 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 08, 2022, 03:20:36 PM
I can't clearly recall the last time the Bombers brought in an unknown NFL cut mid-season, can't be Travis Bond?  If anyone has better recall please enlighten me with a few names.

The team brings in unknown NFL cuts every season. It's not usually to see them added to the AR, it's for the PR and emergency need due to injury. It's a chance to determine whether to bring them back to TC the next season.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: blue_gold_84 on August 08, 2022, 04:23:31 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 08, 2022, 03:20:36 PM
I can't clearly recall the last time the Bombers brought in an unknown NFL cut mid-season, can't be Travis Bond?  If anyone has better recall please enlighten me with a few names.

Travis Bond doesn't fit any of that criteria. He was signed by the Bombers in March 2016 as a free agent.

I can't recall an "unknown" NFL cut mid-season brought in by this team in recent memory, but Rose is the most recent NFL cut that comes to mind.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Tiger on August 08, 2022, 04:53:26 PM
Quote from: DM83 on August 08, 2022, 05:43:30 AM
Why is the name of this post " chris Jones Goes Tasmanian Devil?"

Every team will entertain new players at NFL cut down day. Weird topic.

Simply because Jones is changing players more than the Winnipeg weather forecast.  Either he is brilliant or  loco. Why not do this before the regular season instead of having one big training camp?
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: DM83 on August 08, 2022, 06:01:59 PM
Let's. Start a poll

LOCO.         BRILLIANT
   I
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: theaardvark on August 08, 2022, 06:35:13 PM
If you think that McManus and Goveia have their feet up and are sitting back and enjoying the success the team is having, and are NOT looking under every rock, or at every NFL cut or even potential cut, they you are sorely mistaken. 

There is an SMS, yo can't just sign anyone you want at any time (sorry, Mr. Jones is gonna get fried by SMS this year, especially if he picks up a QB)

We have lost more and better players in the last few years than most teams have signed, and yet, 9-0.  Lose a Lawler, gain a Shoen.  Lose a Medlock, bring in a Castillo, and develop a Liegghio.  On, and on, and on...

McManus and Goveia need to get included in the Mafia as reasons for the success of the team... yes Walters is the final decision of signing anyone, but they make sure he has a full plate and pipeline.

Some teams are forced to overpay and/or sign talent that may or may not ever work in the CFL.  The Bombers took the time to build it right, create the culture that attracts players, and retains them.  Sustainable success.  Jones wants to sweep into town, make a bunch of off the board moves, play players out of position, overpay stars that he can't utilize (Lawler should be doing much better, had he had a QB, maybe like Arbuckle).  Of all the moves (and I think he will set a roster record, if he doesn't already hold it), the only one that seems to have worked is the Manny show...

NFL cuts don't come cheap. although late in the year, prorated contracts might be.  But again, the Elks have small chance of offering the big attraction for NFL cuts, post season money.  Post season money, especially the GC bonus, could equal the rest of the year on a prorated deal.  So most players worth signing for this year are going to look at teams with playoff potential.

Might Jones pick up some scraps that no one else wants?  Sure.  Might they add to his team next year?  Maybe.  But he's short on roster spots, and short on cash.  So if any CFL stars that are getting NFL sniffs come back north, he's the last place any of them would sign. 

Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 08, 2022, 06:41:12 PM
Quote from: DM83 on August 08, 2022, 06:01:59 PM
Let's. Start a poll

LOCO.         BRILLIANT
   I

Loco. 2
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Pigskin on August 08, 2022, 06:44:03 PM
So what what do we need if when the NFL starts cutting players?
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 08, 2022, 06:44:39 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on August 08, 2022, 06:35:13 PM
If you think that McManus and Goveia have their feet up and are sitting back and enjoying the success the team is having, and are NOT looking under every rock, or at every NFL cut or even potential cut, they you are sorely mistaken. 

There is an SMS, yo can't just sign anyone you want at any time (sorry, Mr. Jones is gonna get fried by SMS this year, especially if he picks up a QB)

We have lost more and better players in the last few years than most teams have signed, and yet, 9-0.  Lose a Lawler, gain a Shoen.  Lose a Medlock, bring in a Castillo, and develop a Liegghio.  On, and on, and on...

McManus and Goveia need to get included in the Mafia as reasons for the success of the team... yes Walters is the final decision of signing anyone, but they make sure he has a full plate and pipeline.

Some teams are forced to overpay and/or sign talent that may or may not ever work in the CFL.  The Bombers took the time to build it right, create the culture that attracts players, and retains them.  Sustainable success.  Jones wants to sweep into town, make a bunch of off the board moves, play players out of position, overpay stars that he can't utilize (Lawler should be doing much better, had he had a QB, maybe like Arbuckle).  Of all the moves (and I think he will set a roster record, if he doesn't already hold it), the only one that seems to have worked is the Manny show...

NFL cuts don't come cheap. although late in the year, prorated contracts might be.  But again, the Elks have small chance of offering the big attraction for NFL cuts, post season money.  Post season money, especially the GC bonus, could equal the rest of the year on a prorated deal.  So most players worth signing for this year are going to look at teams with playoff potential.

Might Jones pick up some scraps that no one else wants?  Sure.  Might they add to his team next year?  Maybe.  But he's short on roster spots, and short on cash.  So if any CFL stars that are getting NFL sniffs come back north, he's the last place any of them would sign. 



Most NFL cuts do come cheap. Generally they are non drafted, late drafted or veterans beyond their best before dates.

In a few cases ex -CFL players or previous CFL drafts are making their way back to Canada. A few of those may come at a higher cost.

Players like Kongbo and Rose didn't get ELC's returning to the CFL.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: theaardvark on August 08, 2022, 06:52:44 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 08, 2022, 06:44:39 PM
Most NFL cuts do come cheap. Generally they are non drafted, late drafted or veterans beyond their best before dates.

In a few cases ex -CFL players or previous CFL drafts are making their way back to Canada. A few of those may come at a higher cost.

Players like Kongbo and Rose didn't get ELC's returning to the CFL.

Yes, players that have never done anything in the CFL and are cut from NFL squads come cheap... last chance as it were... I was referring to players that have CFL pedigree that can immediately add to a team.  Kongbo, Rose, Bighill, Muamba... guys out there who might get cut or decide they can't wait around for another call, like Alford, Lirim, Dejarlais, Kalinic, Deadmon.. none of these players will be in Jones' budget, nor will Jones' team be on their radar...

Here is Jones' head of scouting...  from the Elk's website... not awe inspiring.


Sammy Gahagan
DIRECTOR OF US SCOUTING

NEED TO KNOW:

    Part of Chris Jones? scouting staff while in Saskatchewan.
    Previous experience as a player agent.
    Based in Daytona Beach Shores, Florida.

FOOTBALL OPERATIONS HISTORY

    2022-present: Edmonton Elks (CFL) | Director of US Scouting
    2021: Montreal Alouettes (CFL) | Special Asst. to GM / Scout
    2020: B.C. Lions (CFL) | Southeast Regional Scout
    2017-19: Saskatchewan Roughriders (CFL) | Scout
    2004-09: Lindenwood University (NCAA Div. II) | Director of Football Operations

Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 08, 2022, 06:53:59 PM
Quote from: Pigskin on August 08, 2022, 06:44:03 PM
So what what do we need if when the NFL starts cutting players?

Not an easy question to answer at any time. It can change immediately this week if we have any new serious injuries.

The question is where are we least deep, including our IR lists and when are those on our IR possibly returning? We have PR players and rookie players on our AR that have not had significant time playing aside from ST's.

If we have an injury at LB, that might be a concern. Wilson is not likely back for awhile and we don't know what Cole can do if needed to step in. There is no other LB on our PR.

Somewhat ditto at receiver. McKnight has been with the team and Harrison hasn't had an offensive snap IIRC.

The reality is who has been on the radar and interested in coming to Canada. There is no immediate need at the moment, so position is moot.

One question we might consider is where are the biggest non QB SMS hits that we feel might reach free agency, intentionally or otherwise?. A need to re-shuffle SMS happens every off season. Teams look to get younger, faster, stronger and less expensive.

Just a guess but IMO we'd look at the biggest pool. That would probably be DB's and receivers as futures.





Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 08, 2022, 06:57:08 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on August 08, 2022, 06:52:44 PM
Yes, players that have never done anything in the CFL and are cut from NFL squads come cheap... last chance as it were... I was referring to players that have CFL pedigree that can immediately add to a team.  Kongbo, Rose, Bighill, Muamba... guys out there who might get cut or decide they can't wait around for another call, like Alford, Lirim, Dejarlais, Kalinic, Deadmon.. none of these players will be in Jones' budget, nor will Jones' team be on their radar...

Here is Jones' head of scouting...  from the Elk's website... not awe inspiring.


Sammy Gahagan
DIRECTOR OF US SCOUTING

NEED TO KNOW:

    Part of Chris Jones? scouting staff while in Saskatchewan.
    Previous experience as a player agent.
    Based in Daytona Beach Shores, Florida.

FOOTBALL OPERATIONS HISTORY

    2022-present: Edmonton Elks (CFL) | Director of US Scouting
    2021: Montreal Alouettes (CFL) | Special Asst. to GM / Scout
    2020: B.C. Lions (CFL) | Southeast Regional Scout
    2017-19: Saskatchewan Roughriders (CFL) | Scout
    2004-09: Lindenwood University (NCAA Div. II) | Director of Football Operations



Obviously the Canadian players will command a higher salary. One because of nationality and two because they have 2+ years of CFL experience at a high level.

Alford would be welcomed back in Winnipeg but he's a 1 year CFL guy and he's not coming back as a highest paid CFL DB.

Does a returning player sign a 1 year deal to play the last 6 or so games or does he sign a 2 year deal? Noting that a 2 year deal still allows an NFL option for veterans.

IF and it's a big IF: Desjarlais would be of the most importance / significance to re-sign in Winnipeg. He's got a long future and Canadian OL are gold.

Various players may or may not be released and / or not released at the same time. Teams have to hedge their bets on where to spend SMS late in the season. You can't wait around to re-sign Desjarlais who may make an NFL roster, if Alford becomes a free agent tomorrow as an example.

Discussions will be held with agents and decisions made as to SMS cost and need fit.

Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: theaardvark on August 08, 2022, 07:05:35 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 08, 2022, 06:57:08 PM
Obviously the Canadian players will command a higher salary. One because of nationality and two because they have 2+ years of CFL experience at a high level.

Alford would be welcomed back in Winnipeg but he's a 1 year CFL guy and he's not coming back as a top paid CFL DB.

Any Nat CFL player demands a premium, NFL cut or not... so, as you say, it is obvious they will get more.  Again, out of Jone's budget.

If Alford returns he can write his ticket, and will not be signing an ELC, even here.  He will be on a CFL roster at a premium, and sure, he could be a top paid DB, especially if a team has a long term injury to a position he can just slot into, because they will be saving the injured player's salary and can afford to pay top price for a proven guy.  And while he has but 1 year of CFL experience, he has proven his talent and worth. 
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 08, 2022, 07:10:15 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on August 08, 2022, 07:05:35 PM
Any Nat CFL player demands a premium, NFL cut or not... so, as you say, it is obvious they will get more.  Again, out of Jone's budget.

If Alford returns he can write his ticket, and will not be signing an ELC, even here.  He will be on a CFL roster at a premium, and sure, he could be a top paid DB, especially if a team has a long term injury to a position he can just slot into, because they will be saving the injured player's salary and can afford to pay top price for a proven guy.  And while he has but 1 year of CFL experience, he has proven his talent and worth. 

Jones can always start trimming older higher paid vets and might be doing that soon anyway. I'd wouldn't rule out that happening. For that matter he might consider cutting Lawler in order to sign someone like Desjarlais. IIRC Lawler only signed a 1 year deal. From a ratio and SMS point of view, giving Desjarlais $200K would be a better deal for the Elks. Of course I'm not suggesting he wouldn't get similar money from other teams and the Elks might be at the bottom of his destination list. Just an example.

I wasn't suggesting Alford would only get an ELC deal but I'm not sure if his limited time in the CFL gets him into the highest paid category.

No way to determine what Alford returning might have in mind. He might want to try the NFL in 2023 so a 1 year deal with a team likely going to the playoffs would get 1st looks. Winnipeg fits the bill in all boxes for him.

At this point he could make an NFL roster or even after possibly getting cut, could continue to seek NFL opportunities.

All that said it's not as black and white as being able to write his own ticket.  Many receivers get deals at $200K+ but I think DB's generally fall into the $150K range with only a few at over $200K.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: DM83 on August 08, 2022, 07:52:55 PM
DNs a re a dime a dozen.
If Alford needs a place to play for a couple months, what he is paid wouldn't be a consideration, if he's going back down to the NFL.

If I were him, I would come back here, play. For a month and of course return to the NFL., if he doesn't stick.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: bwiser on August 08, 2022, 08:06:28 PM
Quote from: Pigskin on August 08, 2022, 06:44:03 PM
So what what do we need if when the NFL starts cutting players?
I would be looking for a couple o linemen to develop. The Bombers need a plan for when Bryant and Hardrick retire which could come as early as next season. I would also be looking for receivers in case Shoen leaves or Ellingson retires.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 08, 2022, 08:42:10 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 08, 2022, 07:10:15 PM
Jones can always start trimming older higher paid vets and might be doing that soon anyway. I'd wouldn't rule out that happening. For that matter he might consider cutting Lawler in order to sign someone like Desjarlais. IIRC Lawler only signed a 1 year deal. From a ratio and SMS point of view, giving Desjarlais $200K would be a better deal for the Elks. Of course I'm not suggesting he wouldn't get similar money from other teams and the Elks might be at the bottom of his destination list. Just an example.

I wasn't suggesting Alford would only get an ELC deal but I'm not sure if his limited time in the CFL gets him into the highest paid category.

No way to determine what Alford returning might have in mind. He might want to try the NFL in 2023 so a 1 year deal with a team likely going to the playoffs would get 1st looks. Winnipeg fits the bill in all boxes for him.

At this point he could make an NFL roster or even after possibly getting cut, could continue to seek NFL opportunities.

All that said it's not as black and white as being able to write his own ticket.  Many receivers get deals at $200K+ but I think DB's generally fall into the $150K range with only a few at over $200K.

I doubt there is a D back in the CFL making $150k never mind $200k.  The secondary is the bargain basement of the league, with most experienced vets making between $100-$120k, that's why they load up on them every T.C., great bargains can be found.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 08, 2022, 08:52:39 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 08, 2022, 08:42:10 PM
I doubt there is a D back in the CFL making $150k never mind $200k.  The secondary is the bargain basement of the league, with most experienced vets making between $100-$120k, that's why they load up on them every T.C., great bargains can be found.

I think there are a few DB's that were making that much recently. But like you said not many hit that level. It's really the exception than the rule. I'd peg Alford in the $110K-$120K IMO.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Pete on August 08, 2022, 08:56:43 PM
Quote from: Pigskin on August 08, 2022, 06:44:03 PM
So what what do we need if when the NFL starts cutting players?
OL we need to have replacement insurance for Bryant Hardwick
DL Mack and Wilcox havent impressed, we miss Kongbo
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Tiger on August 08, 2022, 09:11:06 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on August 08, 2022, 06:35:13 PM
If you think that McManus and Goveia have their feet up and are sitting back and enjoying the success the team is having, and are NOT looking under every rock, or at every NFL cut or even potential cut, they you are sorely mistaken. 

There is an SMS, yo can't just sign anyone you want at any time (sorry, Mr. Jones is gonna get fried by SMS this year, especially if he picks up a QB)

We have lost more and better players in the last few years than most teams have signed, and yet, 9-0.  Lose a Lawler, gain a Shoen.  Lose a Medlock, bring in a Castillo, and develop a Liegghio.  On, and on, and on...

McManus and Goveia need to get included in the Mafia as reasons for the success of the team... yes Walters is the final decision of signing anyone, but they make sure he has a full plate and pipeline.

Some teams are forced to overpay and/or sign talent that may or may not ever work in the CFL.  The Bombers took the time to build it right, create the culture that attracts players, and retains them.  Sustainable success.  Jones wants to sweep into town, make a bunch of off the board moves, play players out of position, overpay stars that he can't utilize (Lawler should be doing much better, had he had a QB, maybe like Arbuckle).  Of all the moves (and I think he will set a roster record, if he doesn't already hold it), the only one that seems to have worked is the Manny show...

NFL cuts don't come cheap. although late in the year, prorated contracts might be.  But again, the Elks have small chance of offering the big attraction for NFL cuts, post season money.  Post season money, especially the GC bonus, could equal the rest of the year on a prorated deal.  So most players worth signing for this year are going to look at teams with playoff potential.

Might Jones pick up some scraps that no one else wants?  Sure.  Might they add to his team next year?  Maybe.  But he's short on roster spots, and short on cash.  So if any CFL stars that are getting NFL sniffs come back north, he's the last place any of them would sign. 

on point as always.

My concern is losing players to age, injury and better contracts. Butler, Jefferson, Bighill and Jeffcoat are the big ones.


Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 08, 2022, 10:07:42 PM
Quote from: Tiger on August 08, 2022, 09:11:06 PM


on point as always.

My concern is losing players to age, injury and better contracts. Butler, Jefferson, Bighill and Jeffcoat are the big ones.




Who did you mean when you said Butler?

As we heard today, Bighill missed practice today. They may be giving him a vet day but he has a shoulder issue and they may sit him until after the bye.

It shows how quickly roster needs can become. I'd think Clements would move over to MLB and Cole would end up at WIL. If Briggs can dress he might be the WIL in this situation.

Whether any of that comes to pass is all a TBD. It is why I thought adding another NFL cut at LB to the PR might be something we'd like to do.


Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 08, 2022, 10:57:47 PM
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on August 08, 2022, 04:23:31 PM
Travis Bond doesn't fit any of that criteria. He was signed by the Bombers in March 2016 as a free agent.

I can't recall an "unknown" NFL cut mid-season brought in by this team in recent memory, but Rose is the most recent NFL cut that comes to mind.

Nobody can come up with any recent names because for the most part I believe the Bombers no longer bring in mid-season NFL cuts unless they're reclaiming their own, like Rose and Kongbo.  Back in the day they used to partake in annual airlifts of NFL bodies in an attempt to get their season back on track, but that was before the current regime came along.  O'Shea and Walters seem to stick with the players they brought to TC throughout the season, rewarding those who put in the work with opportunities to play as they become available.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: theaardvark on August 08, 2022, 11:15:36 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 08, 2022, 07:10:15 PM
Jones can always start trimming older higher paid vets and might be doing that soon anyway. I'd wouldn't rule out that happening. For that matter he might consider cutting Lawler in order to sign someone like Desjarlais. IIRC Lawler only signed a 1 year deal. From a ratio and SMS point of view, giving Desjarlais $200K would be a better deal for the Elks. Of course I'm not suggesting he wouldn't get similar money from other teams and the Elks might be at the bottom of his destination list. Just an example.

I wasn't suggesting Alford would only get an ELC deal but I'm not sure if his limited time in the CFL gets him into the highest paid category.

No way to determine what Alford returning might have in mind. He might want to try the NFL in 2023 so a 1 year deal with a team likely going to the playoffs would get 1st looks. Winnipeg fits the bill in all boxes for him.

At this point he could make an NFL roster or even after possibly getting cut, could continue to seek NFL opportunities.

All that said it's not as black and white as being able to write his own ticket.  Many receivers get deals at $200K+ but I think DB's generally fall into the $150K range with only a few at over $200K.

Dejarlais gets more with any team that has Playoff potential... and doesn't have to play for Jones, who, to sign him just cut some solid but higher paid vets (which Dejarlais would be one of)

If Jones cuts Lawler (by far his best player) for salary reasons, Jones loses the ability to sign anyone of quality, period.

If Alford returns, its not just his 2021 season he gets considered on, but the fact that he signed an NFL deal as well.  So yeah, he's a top DB talent, and could take another shot in the NFL window if he has a good rest of a season in the CFL wherever he lands, should he get cut.  But he will be in the top paid DB'S should he return, and not interested in showcasing his talents in the circus that the Elks are.

Jones is the architect of his own demise, and has constructed a roster that will attract the Duron Carters of the world, malcontents and square pegs that other teams might trade to him for players he can't afford.  Lawler likely won't be cut, but could be traded... for some spare parts and some "might turn into somethings"...

Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 09, 2022, 01:44:06 AM
Quote from: theaardvark on August 08, 2022, 11:15:36 PM
Dejarlais gets more with any team that has Playoff potential... and doesn't have to play for Jones, who, to sign him just cut some solid but higher paid vets (which Dejarlais would be one of)

If Jones cuts Lawler (by far his best player) for salary reasons, Jones loses the ability to sign anyone of quality, period.

If Alford returns, its not just his 2021 season he gets considered on, but the fact that he signed an NFL deal as well.  So yeah, he's a top DB talent, and could take another shot in the NFL window if he has a good rest of a season in the CFL wherever he lands, should he get cut.  But he will be in the top paid DB'S should he return, and not interested in showcasing his talents in the circus that the Elks are.

Jones is the architect of his own demise, and has constructed a roster that will attract the Duron Carters of the world, malcontents and square pegs that other teams might trade to him for players he can't afford.  Lawler likely won't be cut, but could be traded... for some spare parts and some "might turn into somethings"...



Kongo and Rose signed NFL deals and returned to the CFL without making an NFL roster. Receiver,  Lenius got cut the 2nd day of TC in the NFL. Getting an NFL offer doesn't mean that much if you don't at least make a PR list for awhile.

Take it with a grain of salt. The NFL tryout means nothing if he's released outright. The only thing that matters is his work in the CFL.

I can't see any team trading for Lawler at his salary even for the balance of the season.

Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Tiger on August 09, 2022, 02:35:03 AM
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 08, 2022, 10:07:42 PM
Who did you mean when you said Butler?

Ugh

Bryant. Love spellcheck
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: TecnoGenius on August 09, 2022, 07:18:57 AM
Quote from: bwiser on August 08, 2022, 08:06:28 PM
I would be looking for a couple o linemen to develop. The Bombers need a plan for when Bryant and Hardrick retire which could come as early as next season. I would also be looking for receivers in case Shoen leaves or Ellingson retires.

I would hope KW has sat down with our 2 O tackles and made sure they've lined up a staggered retirement.  I actually think Bryant will retire first.  He's already done it all.  What is left?  Play until you hurt too much and don't have fun anymore.  Yoshi always strikes me as still wanting to go for it.  And Yoshi hasn't gotten MOP-OL yet... because he's always up against Bryant!

Quote from: Pigskin on August 08, 2022, 06:44:03 PM
So what what do we need if when the NFL starts cutting players?

I think we need precisely what we all thought we needed week 1: a 90% place kicker, and a Carey-like RB.  I think we're happy with our K and RB progression.  It's gone better than we expected.  BUT to be honest it may not be good enough to win playoffs and GCs against a strong BC and not-quite-flailing-this-year CGY.

So if our scouts have eyes on a K and RB down south, maybe we go for it.  It dawned on me that we've been setting our team up for the option that we could go IMP RB if we really needed to.  Not saying we will, but it can't be completely ruled out.  I don't think we do this as a regular-season thing, but I could see a late-season/playoff rental thing.

We could keep running with and dev'ing BO/JA and Leggs next regular season.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: theaardvark on August 09, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 09, 2022, 07:18:57 AM
I would hope KW has sat down with our 2 O tackles and made sure they've lined up a staggered retirement.  I actually think Bryant will retire first.  He's already done it all.  What is left?  Play until you hurt too much and don't have fun anymore.  Yoshi always strikes me as still wanting to go for it.  And Yoshi hasn't gotten MOP-OL yet... because he's always up against Bryant!

I think we need precisely what we all thought we needed week 1: a 90% place kicker, and a Carey-like RB.  I think we're happy with our K and RB progression.  It's gone better than we expected.  BUT to be honest it may not be good enough to win playoffs and GCs against a strong BC and not-quite-flailing-this-year CGY.

So if our scouts have eyes on a K and RB down south, maybe we go for it.  It dawned on me that we've been setting our team up for the option that we could go IMP RB if we really needed to.  Not saying we will, but it can't be completely ruled out.  I don't think we do this as a regular-season thing, but I could see a late-season/playoff rental thing.

We could keep running with and dev'ing BO/JA and Leggs next regular season.


Retirement all depends on what you have coming.  If you are moving into a career where you make as much of more than you do playing football, the transitionbefore you injure yourself becomes easier.  See: Goossen. 

But if you have no post playing career lined up, or will be starting at an entry level job on career 2, then you squeeze every moment and every penny out of your CFL career.  Especially when you are at the top of the payscale at your position.

Walters/O'Shea would never let one of these guys play past their best before date, and risk getting seriously injured.  And you can bet we have had contingency OT's lined up every year, not just in case of retirement, but in case of injury.  So I have no worries about transition.  Even should they retire at the same time.  We will be OK.

If we can improve on our PR OT, K and RB situation, sure... I can see that happening.  But I can't see any roster moves (barring injury), really.  Maybe we bring in a guy who goes on the 1 game.  But, at this time, with this crew and this record, the AR is set...

Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: pjrocksmb on August 09, 2022, 04:41:06 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 09, 2022, 07:18:57 AM
I think we need precisely what we all thought we needed week 1: a 90% place kicker, and a Carey-like RB.  I think we're happy with our K and RB progression.  It's gone better than we expected.  BUT to be honest it may not be good enough to win playoffs and GCs against a strong BC and not-quite-flailing-this-year CGY.

So if our scouts have eyes on a K and RB down south, maybe we go for it.  It dawned on me that we've been setting our team up for the option that we could go IMP RB if we really needed to.  Not saying we will, but it can't be completely ruled out.  I don't think we do this as a regular-season thing, but I could see a late-season/playoff rental thing.

We could keep running with and dev'ing BO/JA and Leggs next regular season.


Disagree, IMO we have 2 good Canadian backs and a decent Import RB to boot.  Leggs will do just fine.  Part of learning is making mistakes.  His big leg and excellent punting will be very important when the weather turns.

Both of these positions started slow and have slowly improved! Sky is the limit for their development.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 09, 2022, 04:43:58 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on August 09, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Retirement all depends on what you have coming.  If you are moving into a career where you make as much of more than you do playing football, the transitionbefore you injure yourself becomes easier.  See: Goossen. 

But if you have no post playing career lined up, or will be starting at an entry level job on career 2, then you squeeze every moment and every penny out of your CFL career.  Especially when you are at the top of the payscale at your position.

Walters/O'Shea would never let one of these guys play past their best before date, and risk getting seriously injured.  And you can bet we have had contingency OT's lined up every year, not just in case of retirement, but in case of injury.  So I have no worries about transition.  Even should they retire at the same time.  We will be OK.

If we can improve on our PR OT, K and RB situation, sure... I can see that happening.  But I can't see any roster moves (barring injury), really.  Maybe we bring in a guy who goes on the 1 game.  But, at this time, with this crew and this record, the AR is set...



Disagree once again.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: theaardvark on August 09, 2022, 05:32:16 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 09, 2022, 04:43:58 PM
Disagree once again.

I wouldn't expect anything else...
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 09, 2022, 05:32:49 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 09, 2022, 07:18:57 AM
I would hope KW has sat down with our 2 O tackles and made sure they've lined up a staggered retirement.  I actually think Bryant will retire first.  He's already done it all.  What is left?  Play until you hurt too much and don't have fun anymore.  Yoshi always strikes me as still wanting to go for it.  And Yoshi hasn't gotten MOP-OL yet... because he's always up against Bryant!

I think we need precisely what we all thought we needed week 1: a 90% place kicker, and a Carey-like RB.  I think we're happy with our K and RB progression.  It's gone better than we expected.  BUT to be honest it may not be good enough to win playoffs and GCs against a strong BC and not-quite-flailing-this-year CGY.

So if our scouts have eyes on a K and RB down south, maybe we go for it.  It dawned on me that we've been setting our team up for the option that we could go IMP RB if we really needed to.  Not saying we will, but it can't be completely ruled out.  I don't think we do this as a regular-season thing, but I could see a late-season/playoff rental thing.

We could keep running with and dev'ing BO/JA and Leggs next regular season.


I don't see these two positions as priorities for improvement at this time, both running back and kicker are rounding into form nicely and backups are already in house.  If anything I think scouting will use NFL cuts to prospect for next years TC, which usually means plenty of receivers and DB's.  They have to look at who they are likely to lose in the off-season to F.A. and NFL.  Potentially Schoen, Nichols, Demski, Sayles, Wilson, any of which could be looking for substantial pay increases.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: DM83 on August 09, 2022, 05:44:52 PM
Demski ain't going anywhere he's a Winnioeg guy. Schoen isn't he signed for a second year? He is NFL capable. Not sure he has the speed to unseat any rookies the NFL drafts.  But he has talent. And being a special teams guy down may be his desire?  NOT.  He is in the perfect spot.  Guaranteed job, a raise playing for a championship caliber organization.  Where he will be the face of the franchise next year.m who could leave that?
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Pigskin on August 09, 2022, 05:49:35 PM
DS83 will get some interest this winter. He came to the CFL to work on his skill set and improve his game. Whether he can make an NFL roster is the 64 dollar question. But he could do like Strev. and hanging around long enough to make himself a good sum of money.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 09, 2022, 06:01:34 PM
Quote from: DM83 on August 09, 2022, 05:44:52 PM
Demski ain't going anywhere he's a Winnioeg guy. Schoen isn't he signed for a second year? He is NFL capable. Not sure he has the speed to unseat any rookies the NFL drafts.  But he has talent. And being a special teams guy down may be his desire?  NOT.  He is in the perfect spot.  Guaranteed job, a raise playing for a championship caliber organization.  Where he will be the face of the franchise next year.m who could leave that?

I'm not saying Schoen will make an NFL roster, as I don't believe he will, but the urge for him to pursue the NFL option is probably already hardwired into his brain.  If he stayed in the CFL he could build a great career as Ellingson has, I just don't think he's going to choose that option.  The great Zylstra has accumulated 36 catches in 4 NFL seasons, but at least he can be proud of the amount of money he's been paid.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 09, 2022, 07:47:16 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on August 09, 2022, 05:32:16 PM
I wouldn't expect anything else...

You live in a fantasy world where you feel a need to speculate and conspiracy theories. You're free to make them but don't expect many of to agree with you. I see at least two others that disagree with your assessment.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: blue_gold_84 on August 09, 2022, 07:50:36 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 09, 2022, 07:47:16 PM
You live in a fantasy world where you feel a need to speculate and conspiracy theories. You're free to make them but don't expect many of to agree with you. I see at least two others that disagree with your assessment.

Make it three. ;D
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 09, 2022, 07:54:37 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 09, 2022, 06:01:34 PM
I'm not saying Schoen will make an NFL roster, as I don't believe he will, but the urge for him to pursue the NFL option is probably already hardwired into his brain.  If he stayed in the CFL he could build a great career as Ellingson has, I just don't think he's going to choose that option.  The great Zylstra has accumulated 36 catches in 4 NFL seasons, but at least he can be proud of the amount of money he's been paid.

Schoen could get an NFL offer for TC. His only risk is a CFL ELC contract. So yes he could look for that opportunity. OTOH he's been in 4 different NFL cities and he may have decided it's better to show 2 seasons in the CFL before making another attempt.

Demski is 28 years old and the NFL draft has a bunch of draft choices every year. I don't see him even thinking about the NFL. Going to free agency if his contract is expiring he might use free agency to maximize his new deal. I don't see him leaving Winnipeg.

Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 09, 2022, 08:57:45 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 09, 2022, 07:54:37 PM
Schoen could get an NFL offer for TC. His only risk is a CFL ELC contract. So yes he could look for that opportunity. OTOH he's been in 4 different NFL cities and he may have decided it's better to show 2 seasons in the CFL before making another attempt.

Demski is 28 years old and the NFL draft has a bunch of draft choices every year. I don't see him even thinking about the NFL. Going to free agency if his contract is expiring he might use free agency to maximize his new deal. I don't see him leaving Winnipeg.

I don't think Demski is NFL bound either, but the Bombers are going to have to pony up a lot more cash next season to reflect his true value to the team.  I'm sure Walters will  get it done but it's going to effect the budget as he's moved up in value and will probably become their most expensive offensive weapon at around $200k/season.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on August 09, 2022, 09:26:40 PM
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on August 09, 2022, 07:50:36 PM
Make it three. ;D
four
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 09, 2022, 10:29:22 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 09, 2022, 08:57:45 PM
I don't think Demski is NFL bound either, but the Bombers are going to have to pony up a lot more cash next season to reflect his true value to the team.  I'm sure Walters will  get it done but it's going to effect the budget as he's moved up in value and will probably become their most expensive offensive weapon at around $200k/season.

As a top player and a Canadian he's certainly going to attract attention from most teams. $200K sounds about right and I agree he'll get if from Winnipeg. What it does to the rest of the spend on the SMS is unpredictable.

We don't know which players will be lost to NFL, free agency or long term injury to veterans later in the season.

It's the same problem every off season. Who did we lose or gain and how much money is left available to increase salary for our own potential free agents. Our list should be shorter than going in 2022 but it will feature some critical players.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: TecnoGenius on August 11, 2022, 05:39:13 AM
Quote from: DM83 on August 09, 2022, 05:44:52 PM
Demski ain't going anywhere he's a Winnioeg guy.

Before AH I would have instantly agreed with you.  Now, I wouldn't be surprised by anything.  But, yes, the best fit for Demski is here in WPG and we will probably pay him what he's worth, which ironically will be even higher if he has a superb remainder of the season/playoffs.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: TecnoGenius on August 11, 2022, 05:41:34 AM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 09, 2022, 05:32:49 PM
I don't see these two positions as priorities for improvement at this time, both running back and kicker are rounding into form nicely and backups are already in house.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't bet we make moves on K/RB, but I also wouldn't be surprised if we do.  Surely KW has a couple of surprises up his sleeve before post-season -- whether forced or not, and whether he knows them at the moment or not!
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: DM83 on August 11, 2022, 03:16:05 PM
Mcfee
Alexander

Those two guys would provide problems for opposing coordinators.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 11, 2022, 03:24:06 PM
Quote from: DM83 on August 11, 2022, 03:16:05 PM
Mcfee
Alexander

Those two guys would provide problems for opposing coordinators.

Who is McFee?
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: GCn19 on August 11, 2022, 03:24:08 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 11, 2022, 05:41:34 AM
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't bet we make moves on K/RB, but I also wouldn't be surprised if we do.  Surely KW has a couple of surprises up his sleeve before post-season -- whether forced or not, and whether he knows them at the moment or not!


I'm pretty sure any surprised we see will come in the form of players returning to us, or former CFLer being signed by us, from the NFL Alford/Desjarlais or a receiver cut are our most likely signings to put us over the top.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: DM83 on August 11, 2022, 03:41:35 PM
McFee ? maybe it's my lack of memory kicking in.  I thought that was the name of the American RB that we have used at RB/SB.

I would use him on the same route Brady ran on the seam or an out and up out of the backfield.......just based on traditional coverage assignments historically used by defensive coordinator's. In that Linebackers on certain formations have the first RB out of the backfield. Certainly on trips, this could be a match-up.

Whatever the guys name is (lol! Sorry) he is faster than Olivera.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Horseman on August 11, 2022, 03:49:01 PM
I believe you meant McCrea
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: M.O.A.B. on August 11, 2022, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: Horseman on August 11, 2022, 03:49:01 PM
I believe you meant McCrea

McCrae?
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 11, 2022, 04:08:51 PM
Quote from: DM83 on August 11, 2022, 03:41:35 PM
McFee ? maybe it's my lack of memory kicking in.  I thought that was the name of the American RB that we have used at RB/SB.

I would use him on the same route Brady ran on the seam or an out and up out of the backfield.......just based on traditional coverage assignments historically used by defensive coordinator's. In that Linebackers on certain formations have the first RB out of the backfield. Certainly on trips, this could be a match-up.

Whatever the guys name is (lol! Sorry) he is faster than Olivera.

Yes it's McCrae. The catch every week is the ratio. McCrae hasn't seen the field for a couple of weeks IIRC. He's been on the AR but not getting reps. Now that Demski is back McCrae may not be a DI and that would allow him to be the extra non starting import to rotate into the offensive game plan.

That said, we've been using Grant on offence while Ellingson was out. If they decide to keep him as the extra import and not as a DI then McCrae won't see the field as a DI.

However Grant was on the field as a " starting receiver " and had 63 yards in 4 carries the last 2 weeks ( sweeps ) and almost nothing as a receiver. He wouldn't directly line up as a RB and I don't know they would put him in taking out a receiver now. Almost a dead giveaway as a sweep coming.

The same might be said if McCrae comes in as a RB, the defence would suspect him to " run " predictably.

All in all I'm not sure who is the extra import or how they would use him based on my comments above. This is not to suggest McCrae might have some talent. I just see the ratio and use of DI's coming into play.

IMO I'd make him the extra non starting import. Having the flexibility with our run game is more useful than a need in our passing game. Oliveria did well against the Als last week but not great. A different style with McCrae might be interesting.

Also Augustine is nicked and didn't see reps last game and may not this week. He didn't practice much this week either. McCrae would be the # 2 RB based on that thought?



Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: theaardvark on August 11, 2022, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 11, 2022, 05:39:13 AM
Before AH I would have instantly agreed with you.  Now, I wouldn't be surprised by anything.  But, yes, the best fit for Demski is here in WPG and we will probably pay him what he's worth, which ironically will be even higher if he has a superb remainder of the season/playoffs.


Huge difference in ND10 and AH33 situations.  ND is on the rise still, young and has a long career ahead.  And, should the team want to work him out before signing him to a big deal, no doubt he would be there at the appointed time.  So, no, the AH33 situation bears no resemblance to re-signing ND10.

Now, if you want to make a comparable that bring question as to whether the WFC can resign ND10, that would be Lawler.  If there is a team that covets ND10 the way EDM coveted Lawler, and was willing to make that kind of offer, I'm not sure Walters can compete.  He will have a set cap for ND10, and if ND10 wants to go elsewhere for additional $, there is nothing we can or will do about it, other than wish him well.

But I think, with playoff money, and his links to the community, its going to take a hefty premium to lure him away.  And should he get that, all the power to him, he deserves it.  But my preference is him finishing his career in Blue and Gold... like Bighill, or Jefferson..  
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 11, 2022, 04:15:47 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on August 11, 2022, 04:11:42 PM
Huge difference in ND20 and AH33 situations.  ND is on the rise still, young and has a long career ahead.  And, should the team want to work him out before signing him to a big deal, no doubt he would be there at the appointed time.  So, no, the AH33 situation bears no resemblance to re-signing ND20.

Now, if you want to make a comparabe that bring question as to whether the WFC can resign ND20, that would be Lawler.  If there is a team that covets ND20 the way EDM coveted Lawler, and was willing to make that kind of offer, I'm not sure Walters can compete.  He will have a set cap for ND20, and if ND20 wants to go elsewhere for additional $, there is nothing we can or will do about it, other than wish him well.

But I think, with playoff money, and his links to the community, its going to take a hefty premium to lure him away.  And should he get that, all the power to him, he deserves it.  But my preference is him finishing his career in Blue and Gold... like Bighill, or Jefferson..  

That's the catch alright. As a Canadian he's " more " valuable than Lawler IMO. No doubt his 1st choice will be Winnipeg but it only takes one other team to offer too much money to refuse.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: M.O.A.B. on August 11, 2022, 04:22:33 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on August 11, 2022, 04:11:42 PM
Huge difference in ND20 and AH33 situations.  ND is on the rise still, young and has a long career ahead.  And, should the team want to work him out before signing him to a big deal, no doubt he would be there at the appointed time.  So, no, the AH33 situation bears no resemblance to re-signing ND20.

Now, if you want to make a comparabe that bring question as to whether the WFC can resign ND20, that would be Lawler.  If there is a team that covets ND20 the way EDM coveted Lawler, and was willing to make that kind of offer, I'm not sure Walters can compete.  He will have a set cap for ND20, and if ND20 wants to go elsewhere for additional $, there is nothing we can or will do about it, other than wish him well.

But I think, with playoff money, and his links to the community, its going to take a hefty premium to lure him away.  And should he get that, all the power to him, he deserves it.  But my preference is him finishing his career in Blue and Gold... like Bighill, or Jefferson..  

who is ND20 ?
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: VictorRomano on August 11, 2022, 05:34:39 PM
Quote from: M.O.A.B. on August 11, 2022, 04:22:33 PM
who is ND20 ?

Nic Demski
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: M.O.A.B. on August 11, 2022, 05:35:40 PM
Quote from: VictorRomano on August 11, 2022, 05:34:39 PM
Nic Demski

He is not #20 though.  :P
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: theaardvark on August 11, 2022, 05:44:42 PM
Quote from: M.O.A.B. on August 11, 2022, 05:35:40 PM
He is not #20 though.  :P

Lol... you are correct sir... I've been typing BO20 and AH33 together for so long, I got ND10 confused.  Happens when you get this old.

I stand corrected...
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: TecnoGenius on August 12, 2022, 05:58:11 AM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 09, 2022, 07:18:57 AM
I think we need precisely what we all thought we needed week 1: a 90% place kicker, and a Carey-like RB.  I think we're happy with our K and RB progression.  It's gone better than we expected.  BUT to be honest it may not be good enough to win playoffs and GCs against a strong BC and not-quite-flailing-this-year CGY.

Bump.  We knew we were going to lose a game because of the place kicking.  Well, there it is.  A big message to KW to make moves for the post-season.  We can afford to give this to the Als.  Can't afford this nonsense in a playoff situation.

After that first miss should have played 3 down ball in OT.  Everyone knew he was going to get nervous and botch it.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 12, 2022, 01:25:37 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 12, 2022, 05:58:11 AM
Bump.  We knew we were going to lose a game because of the place kicking.  Well, there it is.  A big message to KW to make moves for the post-season.  We can afford to give this to the Als.  Can't afford this nonsense in a playoff situation.

After that first miss should have played 3 down ball in OT.  Everyone knew he was going to get nervous and botch it.


Wrong on all counts.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: theaardvark on August 12, 2022, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 12, 2022, 05:58:11 AM
Bump.  We knew we were going to lose a game because of the place kicking.  Well, there it is.  A big message to KW to make moves for the post-season.  We can afford to give this to the Als.  Can't afford this nonsense in a playoff situation.

After that first miss should have played 3 down ball in OT.  Everyone knew he was going to get nervous and botch it.


We did not lose *because* of the place kicking.  We were pu into a position where a kick needed to be made by the poor play of both out O and our D.  We should never have had the game on the line on the last play, or even been in overtime.

Yes, place kicking could have won the game for us, but it did not lose the game, that was a team effort.

As to airlifting in a PK, if Hajrullahu shakes loose, of course you recruit him.  Give Leggs another year or two under his tutelage on the K side of things, and continue in the P duties which he has done so well.   Other than Lirim, not sure there is another P/K out there that is worth airlifting in, except maybe Maher.  Funny thing, Lirim and Brett Maher are fighting for the P/K spot in Dallas... a fight Maher lost to Lirim in Winnipeg in 2014...
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 12, 2022, 05:14:12 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on August 12, 2022, 03:59:07 PM
We did not lose *because* of the place kicking.  We were pu into a position where a kick needed to be made by the poor play of both out O and our D.  We should never have had the game on the line on the last play, or even been in overtime.

Yes, place kicking could have won the game for us, but it did not lose the game, that was a team effort.

As to airlifting in a PK, if Hajrullahu shakes loose, of course you recruit him.  Give Leggs another year or two under his tutelage on the K side of things, and continue in the P duties which he has done so well.   Other than Lirim, not sure there is another P/K out there that is worth airlifting in, except maybe Maher.  Funny thing, Lirim and Brett Maher are fighting for the P/K spot in Dallas... a fight Maher lost to Lirim in Winnipeg in 2014...

I agree. Finding any new kicker is not like just looking in the phone book for a solution. We did that in 2021 and found Moutada.

There is also the SMS issue for players like Lirim H. or Maher. Give them a call when they choose to return to Canada. But it's not that easy. Liegghio has a future in Winnipeg.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 12, 2022, 05:34:31 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 12, 2022, 05:14:12 PM
I agree. Finding any new kicker is not like just looking in the phone book for a solution. We did that in 2021 and found Moutada.

There is also the SMS issue for players like Lirim H. or Maher. Give them a call when they choose to return to Canada. But it's not that easy. Liegghio has a future in Winnipeg.

Mourtada is the next F.G. kicker up if Leggs screws the pooch again, he's paid his dues and deserves the next shot, otherwise why waste his time by keeping him around on the PR living off peanuts. 
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: theaardvark on August 12, 2022, 06:20:24 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 12, 2022, 05:34:31 PM
Mourtada is the next F.G. kicker up if Leggs screws the pooch again, he's paid his dues and deserves the next shot, otherwise why waste his time by keeping him around on the PR living off peanuts. 

He has the chance each week to win the job from Leggs, based on performance, and to a degree, ratio/roster.  As to keeping him around on the PR "for peanuts", he's free to leave at any time.  But for some players, "peanuts" and a chance to be on a 2 time defending GC team that is 9-1, well, its worth it.  As to being the next one up, in case of injury, for sure.  But if the team is looking for a replacement due to performance, not sure Mourtada is a shoe in...
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: DM83 on August 12, 2022, 07:36:05 PM
Leggio and Mourtada, like Grey are incapeable of playing at a championship team level.  They would be average on loser teams where playing at a lower level of acceptance is , well,.... accepted.

These guys are and will excel at leading the Bombers to failure to achieve a third Grey Cup.
# 38 is also close to joining tha list.  He was the idiot offside. Additional,plays saw him no where near the play, loafing to the pile, and generally not involved.  Bye-bye.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: ModAdmin on August 12, 2022, 09:20:49 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on August 12, 2022, 03:59:07 PM
We did not lose *because* of the place kicking.  We were pu into a position where a kick needed to be made by the poor play of both out O and our D.  We should never have had the game on the line on the last play, or even been in overtime.

Yes, place kicking could have won the game for us, but it did not lose the game, that was a team effort.

As to airlifting in a PK, if Hajrullahu shakes loose, of course you recruit him.  Give Leggs another year or two under his tutelage on the K side of things, and continue in the P duties which he has done so well.   Other than Lirim, not sure there is another P/K out there that is worth airlifting in, except maybe Maher.  Funny thing, Lirim and Brett Maher are fighting for the P/K spot in Dallas... a fight Maher lost to Lirim in Winnipeg in 2014...

Playing the devil's advocate but one could argue the "team" put the Bombers - in the 4th quarter - in a position to win the game with a successful field goal.  In any event count me as a Liegghio supporter.  Still a believer he will continue to improve.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: pjrocksmb on August 12, 2022, 10:28:35 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 12, 2022, 01:25:37 PM
Wrong on all counts.
Agree, I don't agree with tecno's bumped post and his reply
Quote from: DM83 on August 12, 2022, 07:36:05 PM
Leggio and Mourtada, like Grey are incapeable of playing at a championship team level.  They would be average on loser teams where playing at a lower level of acceptance is , well,.... accepted.

These guys are and will excel at leading the Bombers to failure to achieve a third Grey Cup.
# 38 is also close to joining tha list.  He was the idiot offside. Additional,plays saw him no where near the play, loafing to the pile, and generally not involved.  Bye-bye.
While you are entitled to your opinion and thanks for sharing, I don't agree with a single thing here.  Leggs been decent this year, 38 been good to great
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: TecnoGenius on August 12, 2022, 10:38:19 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 12, 2022, 05:14:12 PM
I agree. Finding any new kicker is not like just looking in the phone book for a solution. We did that in 2021 and found Moutada.

Funny you use Ali as the example.  How quickly you forget: we did that a second time in 2021 and found Castillo that probably won the GC for us (5 FG and singles on KOs).  We did that because it was clear neither Ali nor Leggs would win the post-season for us.  KW isn't stupid.

You absolutely can airlift in a K at the last minute and have him be money in the playoffs.  We can keep Leggs around for more development as he's on an upward trajectory.  We really can have our cake and eat it too.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: pjrocksmb on August 12, 2022, 10:44:57 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 12, 2022, 10:38:19 PM
Funny you use Ali as the example.  How quickly you forget: we did that a second time in 2021 and found Castillo that probably won the GC for us (5 FG and singles on KOs).  We did that because it was clear neither Ali nor Leggs would win the post-season for us.  KW isn't stupid.

You absolutely can airlift in a K at the last minute and have him be money in the playoffs.  We can keep Leggs around for more development as he's on an upward trajectory.  We really can have our cake and eat it too.


Good cake is hard to find and expensive though lol
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 13, 2022, 03:30:51 AM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 12, 2022, 10:38:19 PM
Funny you use Ali as the example.  How quickly you forget: we did that a second time in 2021 and found Castillo that probably won the GC for us (5 FG and singles on KOs).  We did that because it was clear neither Ali nor Leggs would win the post-season for us.  KW isn't stupid.

You absolutely can airlift in a K at the last minute and have him be money in the playoffs.  We can keep Leggs around for more development as he's on an upward trajectory.  We really can have our cake and eat it too.


You just proved my point. Also a veteran CFL player isn't always available at any position a team might want to fill. A quality NFL player with no CFL experience does not guarantee he will be successful in the CFL.

You just like to make absurd suggestions not based on reality.

If Collaros gets injured in game 16 we'll just airlift another star QB. Yeah that will fly. NOT.

Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: TecnoGenius on August 13, 2022, 04:10:05 AM
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 13, 2022, 03:30:51 AM
You just like to make absurd suggestions not based on reality.

If Collaros gets injured in game 16 we'll just airlift another star QB. Yeah that will fly. NOT.

No who's not being realistic?  You know full well a QB airlift is nothing like a PK airlift.  The PK is the easiest piece to change or shuffle and the dude can start the week he gets off the plane.  Again, just see 2021 Castillo as an example.  Heck, even an NFL one can learn enough in a week.  (Not talking punter, just talking PK!! You could even keep Leggs doing KOs.)

We don't have to argue about it, we can just wait and see.  Come playoff time one of two things must happen:

1) Leggs has vastly improved and performs in critical situations (especially his nemesis: 32 yard kicks)
or
2) KW airlifts a new kicker (no, Ali isn't the answer)

That's it.  Winner buys the other guy a night at their stadium next time they're in town.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 13, 2022, 01:43:42 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 13, 2022, 04:10:05 AM
No who's not being realistic?  You know full well a QB airlift is nothing like a PK airlift.  The PK is the easiest piece to change or shuffle and the dude can start the week he gets off the plane.  Again, just see 2021 Castillo as an example.  Heck, even an NFL one can learn enough in a week.  (Not talking punter, just talking PK!! You could even keep Leggs doing KOs.)

We don't have to argue about it, we can just wait and see.  Come playoff time one of two things must happen:

1) Leggs has vastly improved and performs in critical situations (especially his nemesis: 32 yard kicks)
or
2) KW airlifts a new kicker (no, Ali isn't the answer)

That's it.  Winner buys the other guy a night at their stadium next time they're in town.


Kickers are the smallest part of any player pool. Every team in every league has more QB's on their rosters than kickers.

I agree Ali M is not the answer but then why didn't KW find a better one for the PR during the last 7 months?

I showed some math in the other string about confidence: 23 FG attempts and 26 converts. Missed 2 FG's and 2 converts as far as I can find. That's 91.8% success.

You want to call that a nemesis when we're also thinking the hold in regulation time might have been a problem for 1 of 2 misses?

Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: TecnoGenius on August 14, 2022, 04:06:21 AM
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 13, 2022, 01:43:42 PM
I showed some math in the other string about confidence: 23 FG attempts and 26 converts. Missed 2 FG's and 2 converts as far as I can find. That's 91.8% success.

Something is off with your math, or Waffler's.  From the other thread from Waffler:

QuoteHolders

Prukop:

FG 4 of 7, convert 12 of 13  80%

Mancusco:

FG 14 of 16, convert 13 of 16  84%

Clearly that's far under 90%.

And it's not the miss %, it's the fact he's gonna blow it when we get down to the 20 to win it and won't even hoof it out the EZ.

Are you telling me that, if it's the GC tomorrow and Leggs has to hit from the 20 with 0:00 on the clock or we lose, you wouldn't be sweating buckets with a nagging feeling we're gonna lose??  I know I'd be praying like mad, just like I was in the losing 37 kick in OT.

We had our fill of "pray" kicking in 2021.  KW doesn't "pray" going into the playoffs.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 14, 2022, 01:38:37 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 13, 2022, 04:10:05 AM
No who's not being realistic?  You know full well a QB airlift is nothing like a PK airlift.  The PK is the easiest piece to change or shuffle and the dude can start the week he gets off the plane.  Again, just see 2021 Castillo as an example.  Heck, even an NFL one can learn enough in a week.  (Not talking punter, just talking PK!! You could even keep Leggs doing KOs.)

We don't have to argue about it, we can just wait and see.  Come playoff time one of two things must happen:

1) Leggs has vastly improved and performs in critical situations (especially his nemesis: 32 yard kicks)
or
2) KW airlifts a new kicker (no, Ali isn't the answer)

That's it.  Winner buys the other guy a night at their stadium next time they're in town.


And yet that's what we did in 2019 when we acquired Collaros.

You're general premise is that we trade with a team out of the playoffs for a short term rental. I can't remember if it was you or other posters but in 2021 there were suggestions about trading for Ward.  Now it's back to trading for Castillo once the Elks are out of the playoffs.

May as well suggest trading to get Lawler back if we have a late season injury at receiver. Elks will be the 2nd team out of the playoff race by then.

That suggestion could be made about any player from the Redblacks or Elks at the end of the season.

Flat out absurd.
Title: Re: NFL Cuts - never say never? Chris Jones goes Tasmanian Devil?
Post by: Blue In BC on August 14, 2022, 01:42:31 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 14, 2022, 04:06:21 AM
Something is off with your math, or Waffler's.  From the other thread from Waffler:

Clearly that's far under 90%.

And it's not the miss %, it's the fact he's gonna blow it when we get down to the 20 to win it and won't even hoof it out the EZ.

Are you telling me that, if it's the GC tomorrow and Leggs has to hit from the 20 with 0:00 on the clock or we lose, you wouldn't be sweating buckets with a nagging feeling we're gonna lose??  I know I'd be praying like mad, just like I was in the losing 37 kick in OT.

We had our fill of "pray" kicking in 2021.  KW doesn't "pray" going into the playoffs.


No, I wouldn't be worrying about him making the kick anymore than any other kicker. Kicks get missed by every kicker in the league.

You're just too close to the ledge on this and so many other topics.

It appears that the CFL.CA stats weren't updated on the FG kicking when I quoted them. Now it shows 19 / 23 = 82.6% Both Bomber stats and CFL.CA show that now.  Which is still more than what Waffler showed? I don't believe he's missed 5 converts in 2022 either?