Blue Bombers Forum

The Extra Point => Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Austin85 on June 26, 2022, 06:24:15 AM

Title: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Austin85 on June 26, 2022, 06:24:15 AM
Bombers better be prepared for this team, they are much improved.
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: ModAdmin on June 26, 2022, 06:48:42 AM
Tonight the Argos defense could not cover the Lions receivers.  Too often Lions receivers were wide open and Argos coverage was loose.  Certainly O'Rourke looked good but the Argo defence was burned time after time.  Won't be as easy with the Bombers but I agree the Bombers will have to step up to the challenge.
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: BLUEBOMBER on June 26, 2022, 08:28:37 AM
The Lions beat the Argos easily even without Burnham and Butler.  There were a number of other Lions that are getting banged up but overall, it looks like ORourke is willing to gamble big to get the big yards.  If we can rattle him early on and rush him into making some bad throws, then intercept some of his passes, we could possibly come out on top.  The Argos did look like a very tired team.  Who set the schedule so that the Argos have to start a game at 7 pm Western time?  This is 10 pm Eastern time and no doubt many players are already sleepy at the start time.
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: Jockitch on June 26, 2022, 12:29:56 PM
This Qb., for the Lions, Rourke seems certainly the real deal. Quite a decent arm, good feet, mobility and seemingly a terrific IQ for read and react.
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: M.O.A.B. on June 26, 2022, 12:32:58 PM
He is a very good QB and has quick release. Although he went up against 2 bad defenses.

But surely he will be a tough match-up for the Bombers D in next next week.
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: prairiegirl on June 26, 2022, 01:42:47 PM
I think we are in big trouble against BC and mainly because of the schedule. Play in Toronto Monday and then BC Saturday. Lots of travelling, little time for practice and if Toronto hits like they did in the first half we may have some really bad banged up players
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: dd on June 26, 2022, 01:45:47 PM
It?s going to be very tough to beat the Lions. Our secondary is going to have their hands full with Rourke and their receiving corps, and Butler is going to run rampant on our front 7.
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: CrazyCanuck89 on June 26, 2022, 02:32:21 PM
Quote from: M.O.A.B. on June 26, 2022, 12:32:58 PM
He is a very good QB and has quick release. Although he went up against 2 bad defenses.

But surely he will be a tough match-up for the Bombers D in next next week.

Argo's have a very good defense, the problem is they went up against the best offense in the CFL right now.  Even when they pressured Rourke, he shook it off, took the hit, or he took off with his feet.
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: TBURGESS on June 26, 2022, 03:16:33 PM
The Lions look scary good, but we won't know how good until they play a top tier team.

Edmonton hung with Regina and Calgary after getting blown out by BC. Toronto beat Montreal who beat Regina.

The offence is the best in the league by a huge margin & defence has only allowed 18 points in two games.

Toronto tried to bully them. Hardest hitting game this year. Didn't work. BC lost Burn-em and Butler and still scored 24 points in the second half. They lost Lokombo on defence and still shut Toronto out in the second half.

It'll be interesting to see how they play on the road on a short week, but based on the first two games they're 1 or 1A in the league.
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: The Zipp on June 26, 2022, 03:17:23 PM
Lions have improved their o-line and surrounded Rourke with some decent weapons.  They have designed a playbook that gets the ball out quickly and the guy has a great arm and is playing very confident       .  He is going to have some tough games but it looks like his team and him are making the game "easier" for him. 
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: Horseman on June 26, 2022, 03:37:05 PM
Rourke throws a very nice ball with a tight spiral, I watched the entire game and he did not throw one lame duck pass. All of his passes were crisp and on a rope to the receivers even in tight coverage. Rourke set a record for most passing yards by a Canadian QB in last nights game, 436 yards, beating Gerry Dattilio's old record.
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: The Zipp on June 26, 2022, 03:39:58 PM
Quote from: Horseman on June 26, 2022, 03:37:05 PM
Rourke throws a very nice ball with a tight spiral, I watched the entire game and he did not throw one lame duck pass. All of his passes were crisp and on a rope to the receivers even in tight coverage. Rourke set a record for most passing yards by a Canadian QB in last nights game, 436 yards, beating Gerry Dattilio's old record.

Young man's game and this kid can throw it.  He will get NFL looks if this continues. 
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on June 26, 2022, 04:05:01 PM
Quote from: The Zipp on June 26, 2022, 03:39:58 PM
Young man's game and this kid can throw it.  He will get NFL looks if this continues. 
I'm curious about what they're paying him at the moment?   They signed a lot of good players and I'm thinking his salary perhaps allowed them some flexibility with cap space?   At this point of the season he's the talk of the CFL despite a few teams who remain undefeated which includes only us and the Stamps.
Having said that it's a looong season....
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: Blue In BC on June 26, 2022, 04:10:08 PM
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on June 26, 2022, 04:05:01 PM
I'm curious about what they're paying him at the moment?   They signed a lot of good players and I'm thinking his salary perhaps allowed them some flexibility with cap space?   At this point of the season he's the talk of the CFL despite a few teams who remain undefeated which includes only us and the Stamps.
Having said that it's a looong season....

He's still on his ELC contract so he's not making much. There are probably some # 2 QB's in the league making more at the moment. Whether the Lions have cap space to give him a better deal I don't know.

His salary did allow the Lions to spend SMS elsewhere. Essentially the opposite of when they signed Reilly and couldn't sign good players around him.
People thinking he'll get a look from an NFL team is premature. It's a small sample and their are a bunch of ranked QB's in the NFL draft each year.

Rourke was drafted in 2020 so he could be on the last year of his current deal. I'm not aware of any extension or re-negotiation yet? Something for the Lions to contemplate soon.
Title: Nathan Rourke
Post by: bomb squad on June 26, 2022, 04:21:58 PM
Wow. I'm fired up about this guy. How can you not be if your a Canadian sports fan! Very impressive so far and very exciting. This could be a huge opportunity for the BC Lions and the league to catch lightning in a bottle. The next game will be the big test. If he plays the close to the same way on the road in Ottawa, look out. If that doesn't get the turnstiles spinning again in Vancouver, nothing will.
Title: Re: Nathan Rourke
Post by: Blue In BC on June 26, 2022, 04:35:03 PM
No kidding. I'm optimistic that he'll continue to do well at least in the short term. He has all the tools. At the very least he's been extremely entertaining and Lions fans are starting to come out more than in recent seasons. That's good news for Vancouver and the CFL.

Vancouver needs to have success in order for the CFL to do well and build on recent seasons.

If they win in Ottawa maybe we see 40K at home against the Bombers.
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 26, 2022, 05:02:59 PM
Quote from: ModAdmin on June 26, 2022, 06:48:42 AM
Tonight the Argos defense could not cover the Lions receivers.  Too often Lions receivers were wide open and Argos coverage was loose.  Certainly O'Rourke looked good but the Argo defence was burned time after time.  Won't be as easy with the Bombers but I agree the Bombers will have to step up to the challenge.

Bombers get 3 shots at BC this season, if the Lions want to claim the top rung, they will have to defeat the best team.
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: bluebeard on June 26, 2022, 05:16:30 PM
mmmmm...I'm eating crow now.  Never thought that BC would be as good as they are.  Will it make a difference playing on the road and in the elements??  No dome and perfect conditions.  We have to handle them and put Rourke on his back side a few times.  He has had it way to easy.  BC goes to Ottawa next I believe.  Should be a better test for them and will show us if they are for real.
Title: Re: Nathan Rourke
Post by: Pigskin on June 26, 2022, 05:49:46 PM
I can't believe people didn't see the talent this kid had last year.
Title: Re: Nathan Rourke
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 26, 2022, 06:50:46 PM
Quote from: Pigskin on June 26, 2022, 05:49:46 PM
I can't believe people didn't see the talent this kid had last year.

A couple of good late season games last year don't mean much, he's opening eyes this year by continuing to do very well.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: the paw on June 26, 2022, 08:27:31 PM
It?s not just that Rourke is playing great (which he is), but he rejigs their whole ratio.  His National status allows them to start 3 imports on the OL, which fixes their biggest problem from last year.

The fact that they have 2 studs at LB and went out and acquired Canadian assets at DE, means they play 3 on defence, which really lets them load up on offence.

That receiving corps is scary.  Cottoy is a beast, and the other 4 are all threats as well.  Speed, size, hands, jump balls, the can do it all.  Their RB went down, but they have 2 more on the PR, and it turns out Their fullback is a Mackie truck.  Who knew?

BC always has good DBs, and the LBs are very good.  If their defensive line has found their mojo, this team has all the elements to compete for first. 
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on June 26, 2022, 08:32:02 PM
He is the real deal and so are the Lions. I have them at #1 in the league. Showdown coming up with us soon to see who?s who in the zoo
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 27, 2022, 02:28:15 AM
Quote from: dd on June 26, 2022, 08:32:02 PM
He is the real deal and so are the Lions. I have them at #1 in the league. Showdown coming up with us soon to see who?s who in the zoo

It won't hurt the Bombers to lose an early season game to the Lions to get them riled up for a rematch, better than losing a late season game anyway. Week #19 will be the test, by week #21 they may both be resting players for the playoffs.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Stats Junkie on June 27, 2022, 04:05:54 AM
Rourke is the real deal. I had a feeling he would do well but not this well. It is still early in the season.

There have been a number of busted coverages that he has taken advantage of.

On the Cottoy TD, Rourke did a pump with Cottoy at the 20 and hit him at the 1 for the TD. Cottoy was the only player outside the hashmarks when Rourke did the pump. Most QBs would have made the throw at that point and let Cottoy run it in.

On the post game show they talked about Rourke's contract which allows the Lions to surround him with talent. $85k was number thrown out.

Mackie got a lot of attention on the post game show as well. He mentioned the support he got from teammates who told the OC not to change the offence too much for Mackie.

There seems to be a good culture in BC this year, very similar to Winnipeg. Personal stats are fine, but all that really matters is the win each week.
Title: Re: Nathan Rourke
Post by: ModAdmin on June 27, 2022, 04:24:45 AM
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 26, 2022, 04:35:03 PM
No kidding. I'm optimistic that he'll continue to do well at least in the short term. He has all the tools. At the very least he's been extremely entertaining and Lions fans are starting to come out more than in recent seasons. That's good news for Vancouver and the CFL.

Vancouver needs to have success in order for the CFL to do well and build on recent seasons.

If they win in Ottawa maybe we see 40K at home against the Bombers.

The rout against Edmonton gave Lions fans enough to stimulate increased interest.  34,082 attended that game.  BC looked unbeatable. The fans were entertained.

Next game against the Argos drew a measly 14,006.  Guess Lions fans are not yet convinced/entertained enough although it's hard to fathom.  Hopefully the next few home games for the Lions will see the renewed interest.
Title: Re: Nathan Rourke
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on June 27, 2022, 04:47:23 AM
Quote from: ModAdmin on June 27, 2022, 04:24:45 AM
The rout against Edmonton gave Lions fans enough to stimulate increased interest.  34,082 attended that game.  BC looked unbeatable. The fans were entertained.

Next game against the Argos drew a measly 14,006.  Guess Lions fans are not yet convinced/entertained enough although it's hard to fathom.  Hopefully the next few home games for the Lions will see the renewed interest.
wow 14,000 guess gotta bring in Neil Young now!
Title: Re: Nathan Rourke
Post by: TecnoGenius on June 27, 2022, 06:14:53 AM
Quote from: Pigskin on June 26, 2022, 05:49:46 PM
I can't believe people didn't see the talent this kid had last year.

He underwhelmed a couple of times.  And once teams got some film they started eating him alive.

However, he has a great zippy throwing style and he doesn't pause for beans once he makes his decision.  Real hard to defend against that.  He leads the receiver well and/or hits him dead on, and even though he has heat on every ball his style seems eminently catchable... not a single receiver whiffed on those heaters.  It actually was quite astounding.

Now teams have 2 full games of film on him.  Can they crack the nut?  The youngsters often look unbeatable until the teams adjust to the film.

At this moment Rourke looks better than Fajardo did on his first 2 real starts.  I still doubt Cody can be a top QB.  Could Rourke be a future superstar??  I wouldn't bet against it.

But let's see how some real, competent, West teams fare against Rourke & Lions first.  We'll see if he's the real deal or if he turns into an INT machine and starts looking worse than Cody.

Personally, I hope he does well.  Fun to watch.  Good story.  Good for the league.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Tiger on June 27, 2022, 12:25:02 PM
Rourke did a lot of small things well and was very intelligent/efficient with his actions.  That said no one has rattled and pressured him.  Even if you now have film it is hard to game plan good decision making.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on June 27, 2022, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: ModAdmin on June 27, 2022, 04:24:45 AM
The rout against Edmonton gave Lions fans enough to stimulate increased interest.  34,082 attended that game.  BC looked unbeatable. The fans were entertained.

Next game against the Argos drew a measly 14,006.  Guess Lions fans are not yet convinced/entertained enough although it's hard to fathom.  Hopefully the next few home games for the Lions will see the renewed interest.

The crowd did look very small against the Argos. Part of that is the Argos are not a great draw. The other thing is that good weather finally arrived and fans were anxious to enjoy other things.

We'll see whether the dominating result of that game and the away game increase the interest. Bombers should be a great draw for a crowd.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: CrazyCanuck89 on June 27, 2022, 02:15:23 PM
Quote from: Tiger on June 27, 2022, 12:25:02 PM
Rourke did a lot of small things well and was very intelligent/efficient with his actions.  That said no one has rattled and pressured him.  Even if you now have film it is hard to game plan good decision making.

Toronto did try to rattle and pressure him.  The problem is he can can take off and run, throw to his check down or take the hit.  They talked about Rourke's opinion on taking hits.  He views it as relax your muscles, take the hit and you won't get injured.  Same thing applies to studies done on car crashes.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on June 27, 2022, 02:47:44 PM
It has only been two games so it is a small sample size, but so far so good for him.

I have a couple things I want to see from him;

-How is he in weather, can he make the beautiful throws outside a dome with wind, rain snow etc.
-How does he handle adversity, let's be honest so far he has not had any adversity it's been rainbows and lollipops. Adversity hits all QB's eventually

As mentioned teams have two games of film now, but he looked good in week one and better in week two, I am really excited to see how he looks against Ott nest week.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 27, 2022, 03:03:21 PM
I now wonder if Mike Reilly recognized the talent Rourke possessed last season and saw the writing on the wall regarding his own future.  It's too bad, Reilly could still do well if he signed with the right team, but his contract expectations would probably need to take a major hit. 
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: CrazyCanuck89 on June 27, 2022, 03:50:31 PM
Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on June 27, 2022, 02:47:44 PM
It has only been two games so it is a small sample size, but so far so good for him.

I have a couple things I want to see from him;

-How is he in weather, can he make the beautiful throws outside a dome with wind, rain snow etc.
-How does he handle adversity, let's be honest so far he has not had any adversity it's been rainbows and lollipops. Adversity hits all QB's eventually

As mentioned teams have two games of film now, but he looked good in week one and better in week two, I am really excited to see how he looks against Ott nest week.


We saw how he handled adversity last year.  First game of the season, he suppose to start, then come game time Reilly was starting, then Rourke, then Reilly again, then Rourke.  He had a bad first quarter, then in the second quarter he came out threw a long bomb to Whitehead.   Even the panel had thought that Reilly should have been playing these mental games.  Come second half the Lions march back and almost beat the Riders, while Rourke threw another TD in the process.

The kid is cool as a cucumber.  Even in college when he lost his starting job for a couple of games, he didn't let it get him down, he worked hard and took it back.

His accuracy is better than alot of the starting QBs in this league.  He has greater mobility than everyother starter.  He's not afraid to take a hit.  He was left in on short yardage.  Last offseason, he worked with a Kinesiologist to help him throw the ball harder.  You see it in his throws this year, zipping it into tight windows.

It's not just him.  Their current Oline is run blocking, like the Bombers Oline of last year.  People can blame Olivera and Augustine all they want, but the Oline isn't getting the job done.

I fee bad for Bombers defense, the Lions are going to carve them up.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on June 27, 2022, 04:02:25 PM
Interesting start to the year for BC. Rourke looks great as do the rest of the Lions but I think I want to see a little bit more. He beat a confused Edmonton team in their first game and then took advantage of a pretty questionable effort by Toronto. Full credit to the Lions, they look a lot better than next year, but we'll have to see what's what when they get in a close game.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: gordo on June 27, 2022, 04:18:15 PM
Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on June 27, 2022, 03:50:31 PM

I fee bad for Bombers defense, the Lions are going to carve them up.

I don't think so.  After a slow couple of games with key pieces missing (Jeffcoat and Rose who shouldn't have been playing) the Bombers defence rounded into form against Hamilton especially in the second half.

Rourke feasted on a couple of bad defensive teams and so far hasn't faced a defence like the Bombers will present.  Especially the pressure that Jefferson and Jeffcoat will unleash. 

But for sure will be an interesting match up and a test for both sides.  My money is on the Bombers bringing the kid back to earth.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on June 27, 2022, 04:30:38 PM
Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on June 27, 2022, 03:50:31 PM
We saw how he handled adversity last year.  First game of the season, he suppose to start, then come game time Reilly was starting, then Rourke, then Reilly again, then Rourke.  He had a bad first quarter, then in the second quarter he came out threw a long bomb to Whitehead.   Even the panel had thought that Reilly should have been playing these mental games.  Come second half the Lions march back and almost beat the Riders, while Rourke threw another TD in the process.

The kid is cool as a cucumber.  Even in college when he lost his starting job for a couple of games, he didn't let it get him down, he worked hard and took it back.

His accuracy is better than alot of the starting QBs in this league.  He has greater mobility than everyother starter.  He's not afraid to take a hit.  He was left in on short yardage.  Last offseason, he worked with a Kinesiologist to help him throw the ball harder.  You see it in his throws this year, zipping it into tight windows.

It's not just him.  Their current Oline is run blocking, like the Bombers Oline of last year.  People can blame Olivera and Augustine all they want, but the Oline isn't getting the job done.

I fee bad for Bombers defense, the Lions are going to carve them up.

He looks like he be a very good QB.

Coming in and off the bench without film as he did last year while nice odesn't mean too much as many, many QB;s have done that.
Even more have have faced adversity/succeeded at the college level.
As you mentioned his accuracy and zip look very good, I am very curious to see him play outside a dome.
Don't know his mobilty is the best as you claim but he can move.
I fully agree our o-line is not playing as well as it should be

Hopefully Rourke can keep growing and become a star in the CFL for many years....if nothing else even after only two games (even if he was out the rest of the year) he will get a nice payday next year!
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on June 27, 2022, 04:45:24 PM
Season opener included a concert that was a big draw, and the whole thing was well promoted.  Not sure what happened game two... somehow they dropped the ball in keeping th hype.. I guess a bye week and good weather did not help...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 27, 2022, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on June 27, 2022, 03:50:31 PM
We saw how he handled adversity last year.  First game of the season, he suppose to start, then come game time Reilly was starting, then Rourke, then Reilly again, then Rourke.  He had a bad first quarter, then in the second quarter he came out threw a long bomb to Whitehead.   Even the panel had thought that Reilly should have been playing these mental games.  Come second half the Lions march back and almost beat the Riders, while Rourke threw another TD in the process.



I fee bad for Bombers defense, the Lions are going to carve them up.

I can't see it, the Bomber secondary will contest all passes as long as they're all sharp (c'mon Rose), unlike the Argos who allowed Rourke to play pitch and catch with uncovered receivers.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on June 28, 2022, 02:58:12 AM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 27, 2022, 04:49:23 PM
I can't see it, the Bomber secondary will contest all passes as long as they're all sharp (c'mon Rose), unlike the Argos who allowed Rourke to play pitch and catch with uncovered receivers.
^this
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on June 28, 2022, 03:56:06 AM
Burnham to the 6 game...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Top Gun on June 28, 2022, 04:20:27 AM
Lions have the best receivers and rb in the league.... if Rourke continues to play well and coaching does a great job then lions are the team to beat.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on June 28, 2022, 06:54:57 AM
Quote from: Top Gun on June 28, 2022, 04:20:27 AM
Lions have the best receivers and rb in the league.... if Rourke continues to play well and coaching does a great job then lions are the team to beat.

Best RB?  Recency bias.  He had great stats for 1.5 games after being so-so every other season.  I expect him to be lucky if he ends  the season in the top 3.  Who's really the best?  Dunno yet.  But not ours!!

Same with the Lions.  2 games against the crappiest teams in the league with a bye in between doesn't mean beans.  I bet they finish top 5, but probably not top 3.  They'll be lucky to make it out of the semi-finals.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Jesse on June 28, 2022, 12:24:08 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 28, 2022, 06:54:57 AM
Best RB?  Recency bias.  He had great stats for 1.5 games after being so-so every other season.  I expect him to be lucky if he ends  the season in the top 3.  Who's really the best?  Dunno yet.  But not ours!!

Same with the Lions.  2 games against the crappiest teams in the league with a bye in between doesn't mean beans.  I bet they finish top 5, but probably not top 3.  They'll be lucky to make it out of the semi-finals.


Definitely recency bias, but also maybe true.

AH isn't the best anymore and Stanback is out.

The field is wide open for someone to grab top spot and Butler has had the best start.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on June 28, 2022, 01:56:15 PM
Burnham out, Butler and Lokombo questionable... coming on 4 days rest against a much improved OTT team coming off a bye.  An Ott team that is very motivated by back to back losses close to us.   

Yes, Rourke orchestrated two dominating wins against very weak teams.  At home.  With a bye in the middle.

Not downplaying his talent, he has shown he can read, and throws a nice ball.  But he is going to face an actual test this week.  We will see. 

I'm not betting he wins...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Pigskin on June 28, 2022, 01:56:39 PM
Antwi is having a pretty good year so far. Nice replacement for StanbacK.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GCn19 on June 28, 2022, 04:13:26 PM
Rourke has played outstanding in his first two games. However, I am not ready to anoint him the next great thing. Not yet. We must see how he handles adversity as a starter, it's different as a backup, and right now teams have limited tape on him. I am sure that there will be a deep dive into his tendencies etc. by DCs that will make life tougher for him. Case in point Cody Fajardo, who in 2019 looked outstanding his first 5 games, until a big drop off came when defences figured him out. I suspect that Rourke will have a long and successful career, I also expect his performances to go up and down this season as he matures.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: the.inkster on June 29, 2022, 04:51:51 PM
Quote from: the paw on June 26, 2022, 08:27:31 PM
It?s not just that Rourke is playing great (which he is), but he rejigs their whole ratio.  His National status allows them to start 3 imports on the OL, which fixes their biggest problem from last year.

The fact that they have 2 studs at LB and went out and acquired Canadian assets at DE, means they play 3 on defence, which really lets them load up on offence.

That receiving corps is scary.  Cottoy is a beast, and the other 4 are all threats as well.  Speed, size, hands, jump balls, the can do it all.  Their RB went down, but they have 2 more on the PR, and it turns out Their fullback is a Mackie truck.  Who knew?

BC always has good DBs, and the LBs are very good.  If their defensive line has found their mojo, this team has all the elements to compete for first. 

Coming in late to the conversation here.
Did something in the rules change regarding QBs at the ratio? It was my understanding that Canadian QBs don't actually count as a national.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on June 29, 2022, 05:10:41 PM
Quote from: the.inkster on June 29, 2022, 04:51:51 PM
Coming in late to the conversation here.
Did something in the rules change regarding QBs at the ratio? It was my understanding that Canadian QBs don't actually count as a national.

They count against the ratio if they are the starter. Otherwise still designated as QB's overall. You could have 3 Canadian QB's but that doesn't lower the roster minimum requirement for other Canadian players.

So a team starting a Canadian QB is a little like being able to starter a ratio breaking player like a RB for example. While that's true we're seeing some top Canadians in positions we weren't seeing a decade ago. More LB's and DB's starting. More Canadian RB's getting bigger roles etc etc.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: the.inkster on June 29, 2022, 05:34:36 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 29, 2022, 05:10:41 PM
They count against the ratio if they are the starter. Otherwise still designated as QB's overall. You could have 3 Canadian QB's but that doesn't lower the roster minimum requirement for other Canadian players.

So a team starting a Canadian QB is a little like being able to starter a ratio breaking player like a RB for example. While that's true we're seeing some top Canadians in positions we weren't seeing a decade ago. More LB's and DB's starting. More Canadian RB's getting bigger roles etc etc.

Ah, thanks for the clarification
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GCn19 on June 29, 2022, 05:37:30 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 29, 2022, 05:10:41 PM
They count against the ratio if they are the starter. Otherwise still designated as QB's overall. You could have 3 Canadian QB's but that doesn't lower the roster minimum requirement for other Canadian players.

So a team starting a Canadian QB is a little like being able to starter a ratio breaking player like a RB for example. While that's true we're seeing some top Canadians in positions we weren't seeing a decade ago. More LB's and DB's starting. More Canadian RB's getting bigger roles etc etc.

Not sure that is correct. When Brandon Bridge started for the Riders they were not able to reduce their NAT starter component because he was a NAT. Maybe the rules have changed since then, but I know for sure that at that time there was much discussion about how a NAT QB starting should be a ratio buster but isn't. To my knowledge, the rule was that you designate 2 roster players as QB and nationality doesn't matter, and then you must make up the 20 rostered NATs and 7 starters from the remaining of the roster.  I will freely admit that I am just going off memory here and a few articles that I googled surrounding Brandon Bridge not being counted as one of the 7 NAT starters. Maybe things changed or I am just plain wrong though. Never did a deep dive into it.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TBURGESS on June 29, 2022, 05:40:06 PM
QuoteA National quarterback will be considered one of a Club?s starting National Players as long as he remains on the field at the quarterback position.
- From the CFLPA collective agreement 2019. (I can't find the latest one, but I'm assuming it's the same.)
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GCn19 on June 29, 2022, 05:44:48 PM
Quote from: TBURGESS on June 29, 2022, 05:40:06 PM
- From the CFLPA collective agreement 2019. (I can't find the latest one, but I'm assuming it's the same.)

Thanks TB. Guess that's what I get for reading ancient articles about Brandon Bridge. Oddly enough the BC depth chart still shows 7 starting NATs besides Rourke so they could have gone 3 IMP OL either way. No doubt that Rourke being a NAT gives them a ton of flex to their starting NATs though.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on June 29, 2022, 07:43:34 PM
The Lions also have O'Connor listed as their # 2 QB which maintains that ratio idea if there is an in game injury. Whether he'd go into the game or Pipkin is not guaranteed and the game situation might decide who goes in.

All that said whether a QB or another position Canadian is a starter is just an interesting conversation. It's just that a QB happens so less often but a few are making CFL rosters these days. We might see somebody like Ford get a chance to show his stuff too.

Good to see any young QB doing well. Being Canadian is a bonus.

EDIT: I see the Bombers that were the only team to not have a chance drafting Rourke due to not having a 1st round pick in 2020. Rourke was picked before their 1st pick. That pick was away trading for Collaros. That got us 2 Grey Cup victories. Can't complain about that. lol
Title: Re: BC Lions
Post by: Point of attack on June 30, 2022, 12:15:21 AM
Quote from: Jockitch on June 26, 2022, 12:29:56 PM
This Qb., for the Lions, Rourke seems certainly the real deal. Quite a decent arm, good feet, mobility and seemingly a terrific IQ for read and react.

Ask yourself how often a rookie QB at almost any level, can show the kind of confidence and most importantly the poise shown by Rourke. With his IQ and athleticism, it would be pretty surprising if this guy isn?t already a star in this league . Yes you have to acknowledge he?s played against pretty mediocre D but this guy just checks so many boxes.
He?s great for the league for sure.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on June 30, 2022, 01:15:20 AM
Quote from: Point of attack on June 30, 2022, 12:15:21 AM
Ask yourself how often a rookie QB at almost any level, can show the kind of confidence and most importantly the poise shown by Rourke. With his IQ and athleticism, it would be pretty surprising if this guy isn?t already a star in this league . Yes you have to acknowledge he?s played against pretty mediocre D but this guy just checks so many boxes.
He?s great for the league for sure.

QB's like Arbuckle and Evans played extremely well against good teams when the starter was injured. Now not so much.

Let's not nominate him for the hall of fame yet. He's going to face better defences and will need to show poise under pressure from players like Jeffcoat and Jefferson. Secondary's that will contest passes and not leave receivers open by 5+ yards like the Argos did.

A good start for Rourke to build on.

I'm not disputing Rourke played very well and showed high football IQ.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on June 30, 2022, 01:38:04 AM
Rourke has had a really easy time of it. A couple home games against bad teams that had an even worse effort on the night they played. I would hold off before making too many assumptions just yet.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on June 30, 2022, 02:59:55 AM
No one is nominating him or anointing him for anything. The kid has gotten off to a tremendous start and let?s leave it st that. Why are people so negative and always have to bring up the ya buts??? Will he have ups and downs?? For sure. Get pressure from better defenses, absolutely. Has he had the best start of ANY Qb in the league. Yes. Good for him. And He?s Canadian, better yet.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on June 30, 2022, 01:05:07 PM
Quote from: dd on June 30, 2022, 02:59:55 AM
No one is nominating him or anointing him for anything. The kid has gotten off to a tremendous start and let?s leave it st that. Why are people so negative and always have to bring up the ya buts??? Will he have ups and downs?? For sure. Get pressure from better defenses, absolutely. Has he had the best start of ANY Qb in the league. Yes. Good for him. And He?s Canadian, better yet.

I don't think people or me are being negative. We're just pointing out the opposite where people get carried away in any players early success. Already talk about getting an NFL opportunity for example.

There is an interesting conversation about Rourke and the NFL. It speaks on rookie ELC contracts and how the NFL compares CFL QB's against American draft prospects.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on June 30, 2022, 03:25:13 PM
Rourke is not a Rookie, he was with the team last year, and got reps...

Yes, he is young, green and has had a surprisingly good debut at undisputed starter against some admittedly weak teams at home.  Will this continue once he hits the road against better teams?   Even after this week, he will have faced teams with a total of 1 win in 8 games (that one win was Tor eeking out a 1 point win on a missed FG by MTL).

These teams were not a test for a team at home.

Facing Ottawa in OTT will be a bit of a test, but still a Ofer team.

Next week comes his real test.  At home, 10 days rest against the undefeated defending 2 time GC champs coming off 5 days rest.  So, everything that could be in his favour in facing a real opponent is there, this is his best chance to prove something.  Not saying there are excuses if the Bombers lose this one, but this schedule is screwed...  TOR on the 4th, BC on the 9th?  Short turnaround, on the road both ends of the country?   Wondering if Osh keeps them in TOR and flies direct to BC, or flies to BC after the TOR game and practices out there (guessing option 2)

Not sure if Rourke signed a 2 or 3 year ELC, but I'm sure there is either a mid-season "Wilder" renegotiation and even then, he has the NFL window should any of 32 teams come knocking...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on June 30, 2022, 03:28:06 PM
In all my years of being a CFL fan I've never seen any rookie QB make a splash like Rourke....period!    Kind of similar to Cale Makar with the Avalanche who won the Norris trophy at 23 and the MVP of the SC finals.    Yes it's only two games....and yes he played against the Elks and the Argos yet the fact remains his stats are off the charts.   Somehow I don't think it's a fluke or he just played very bad teams.....we play him 3 times this season so we will see how he evolves.   If he continues to improve BC will definitely be a contender with that arsenal of offensive weapons they have.    It's refreshing to see Canadian talent at this position.   Right now he's left off where he finished last season and he's on pace this year for perhaps a record breaking season.   This is just what the CFL needs especially in BC where attendance has been very poor.   I'm excited for him and the league.    
Having said that we all know it's a loooong season and much can happen....however if any team wins the Cup other than my beloved Bombers, I hope it's BC!
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on June 30, 2022, 03:35:49 PM
Not a Rookie, but this is his first year as starter.

Mitchell came in the same way... Maier looked like a vet starter when pressed into duty when Mitchell couldn't start... just to name a couple actual rookies in their debuts  Again, not sure these discussions happen if BC face WPG or SSK, or HAM on the road game one...  getting served up the EDM Dysfunctions off the hop, and then the MBT meltdown crew was pretty fortunate scheduling.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: CrazyCanuck89 on June 30, 2022, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 30, 2022, 01:05:07 PM
I don't think people or me are being negative. We're just pointing out the opposite where people get carried away in any players early success. Already talk about getting an NFL opportunity for example.

There is an interesting conversation about Rourke and the NFL. It speaks on rookie ELC contracts and how the NFL compares CFL QB's against American draft prospects.

No one is getting carried away.  The Argos have a very good defense and Rourke made them look like a highschool team.  Chris Jones is a defensive genius and yet he couldn't figure Rourke out.

People are excited about Rourke, because he has decent size, mobility, can read a defense, doesn't lock onto his first read and can take a hit and shake it off.  He even worked on learning to throw the ball on him in the offseason.

I had to remind Rider's fans that he did put up almost 200 years and two TDs against them in his first game and he only really played two quarters,because him and Reilly were splitting time.

The kid oozes confidence and his teamates are feeding off of it.  As a starting QB in any league, you keep your foot on the gas.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blue_or_die on June 30, 2022, 04:07:27 PM
Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on June 30, 2022, 03:48:51 PM
No one is getting carried away.  The Argos have a very good defense and Rourke made them look like a highschool team.  Chris Jones is a defensive genius and yet he couldn't figure Rourke out.

People are excited about Rourke, because he has decent size, mobility, can read a defense, doesn't lock onto his first read and can take a hit and shake it off.  He even worked on learning to throw the ball on him in the offseason.

I had to remind Rider's fans that he did put up almost 200 years and two TDs against them in his first game and he only really played two quarters,because him and Reilly were splitting time.

The kid oozes confidence and his teamates are feeding off of it.  As a starting QB in any league, you keep your foot on the gas.

I'm going to need to see more of the Argos D this year and Chris Jones' decision-making this year before I'd draw either of those conclusions.

Everything you said is true but it remains to be seen if they're true consistently. It's fair to want to see more games before getting carried away.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on June 30, 2022, 06:30:20 PM
Elks are saying Tre Ford is starting at QB. Looking forward to seeing how he does. Highly regarded coming out of college.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on June 30, 2022, 07:29:13 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 30, 2022, 06:30:20 PM
Elks are saying Tre Ford is starting at QB. Looking forward to seeing how he does. Highly regarded coming out of college.

They also put Nelson as starting at FS last game.  He was in for maybe 3-4 plays before that changed... Jones has a very fluid idea of "starter"
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 30, 2022, 07:51:14 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 30, 2022, 06:30:20 PM
Elks are saying Tre Ford is starting at QB. Looking forward to seeing how he does. Highly regarded coming out of college.

I don't know why Jones would do this, maybe it's just a gesture to Canada Day and he will quickly pull Ford from the game.  The Elks at least have a slight chance of beating Hamilton with Arbuckle, throwing a rookie QB in his first game to the Ti-Cat D, they stand no chance.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on June 30, 2022, 08:31:50 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 30, 2022, 07:51:14 PM
I don't know why Jones would do this, maybe it's just a gesture to Canada Day and he will quickly pull Ford from the game.  The Elks at least have a chance of beating Hamilton with Arbuckle starting, throwing a rookie QB in his first game to the Ti-Cat D, they stand no chance.

I don't know but I'd like to see Ford get a chance.  Many fans have wanted to see Canadian QB's getting a fair chance and we're starting to see more of that in recent years.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 30, 2022, 10:06:16 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 30, 2022, 08:31:50 PM
I don't know but I'd like to see Ford get a chance.  Many fans have wanted to see Canadian QB's getting a fair chance and we're starting to see more of that in recent years.

Sure, but bring him in at the end of the game if the score is lopsided either way, you don't throw him into the fire when your team is off to a 0-3 start.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on June 30, 2022, 10:09:11 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 30, 2022, 10:06:16 PM
Sure, but bring him in at the end of the game if the score is lopsided either way, you don't throw him into the fire when your team is off to a 0-3 start.

I agree but Jones is a nut. Ford might see the 1st series and then switch to Arbuckle or Locksley.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on June 30, 2022, 10:14:19 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 30, 2022, 01:05:07 PM
I don't think people or me are being negative. We're just pointing out the opposite where people get carried away in any players early success. Already talk about getting an NFL opportunity for example.

There is an interesting conversation about Rourke and the NFL. It speaks on rookie ELC contracts and how the NFL compares CFL QB's against American draft prospects.
I for one am glad he?s having success as really he?s by far the biggest surprise and highlight this year. Lots of players signed for more money this season?-hello mr Lawler!!! And have done squat to earn that pay cheque, which commonly happens. Still, glad Rourke is ripping it up and keep it up!!

Agree the NFL talks are very premature at this point. Let?s just enjoy the moment and let things unfold as they will
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on June 30, 2022, 10:19:37 PM
Quote from: dd on June 30, 2022, 10:14:19 PM
I for one am glad he?s having success as really he?s by far the biggest surprise and highlight this year. Lots of players signed for more money this season?-hello mr Lawler!!! And have done squat to earn that pay cheque, which commonly happens. Still, glad Rourke is ripping it up and keep it up!!

Agree the NFL talks are very premature at this point. Let?s just enjoy the moment and let things unfold as they will

I'm looking forward to watching Rourke play against the Redblacks. Also wanting to see if he Redblacks are as tough defensively as they looked against the Bombers.

Lots of potential injuries for both teams so not sure who will play and who won't. Obviously Lions lost Burnham but several starters are questionable.

Lawler has played well in Edmonton but the team is not very good. He is the highest targeted receiver in the CFL and had the most receptions.

Lions appear to be a much better team than in 2021.

A good QB surrounded by a good team around him has a good chance to succeed. On a bad team things might not look as good but the QB always takes the heat.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 30, 2022, 11:42:37 PM
Interesting that Bo Lokombo is listed as one of the starting LB's after being knocked out cold in the Argo game just 5 days ago.  The players need to stand up for their own personal safety as the CFL, the CFLPA, and team doctors only pay lip-service to CTE, and in reality don't give a crap.

A friend of my son was concussed while mountain biking this past week, although he did not lose consciousness, the brain specialist advised 4-6 weeks before he could resume vigorous riding and that was only after a final checkup.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on July 01, 2022, 12:17:20 AM
It?s the dark ugly truth about professional sports....they all say they have concussion protocols but in reality, it?s all about winning and teams couldn?t care less if you?re a vegetable year?s down the line. The league has got to mandate and enforce recovery protocols done by independent third party not team doctors.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: pjrocksmb on July 03, 2022, 01:55:04 AM
He is good but shown his weakness.  I love his play and yes we need to be ready.  Simply put we bring the heat and we are ok.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on July 03, 2022, 05:15:06 AM
Quote from: pjrocksmb on July 03, 2022, 01:55:04 AM
He is good but shown his weakness.  I love his play and yes we need to be ready.  Simply put we bring the heat and we are ok.
yes he has many weaknesses....like averaging over 350 yards passing in 3 games with 2 interceptions and 9 TDs.   Oh and he's 4th in rushing averaging over 12 YPC with two TDs and 180 yards...,which is more than our two RBs combined! He leads the league in efficiency at 135%!!   He has been hit hard and shakes it off and doesn't seem to get rattled easily.
I'm still looking for his weaknesses and I'm sure the Bombers will be as well.    Seriously this guy has been nothing short of a phenom and you're  talking about his weaknesses??

Yeah, I'm sure he has some....like maybe brunettes or pistachio ice cream....or maybe Miss Vickie's....or puppies!   
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: pjrocksmb on July 03, 2022, 05:18:04 AM
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on July 03, 2022, 05:15:06 AM
yes he has many weaknesses....like averaging over 350 yards passing in 3 games with 2 interceptions and 9 TDs.   Oh and he's 4th in rushing averaging over 12 YPC with two TDs and 180 yards...,which is more than our two RBs combined! He leads the league in efficiency at 135%!!   He has been hit hard and shakes it off and doesn't seem to get rattled easily.
I'm still looking for his weaknesses and I'm sure the Bombers will be as well.    Seriously this guy has been nothing short of a phenom and you're  talking about his weaknesses??

Yeah, I'm sure he has some....like maybe brunettes or pistachio ice cream....or maybe Miss Vickie's....or puppies!  
Good qb that can be beat and will make mistakes

Wee bit of a band wagon post there

You may have noticed how I said he was a good qb and I loved his play.  I am very impressed with his play.

In the last game he got rattled a few times when under pressure.  Our DL and LBs could easily rattle him, he could easily light us up.   Ding ding.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on July 03, 2022, 05:39:24 AM
Quote from: pjrocksmb on July 03, 2022, 05:18:04 AM
Good qb that can be beat and will make mistakes

Wee bit of a band wagon post there

You may have noticed how I said he was a good qb and I loved his play.  I am very impressed with his play.

In the last game he got rattled a few times when under pressure.  Our DL and LBs could easily rattle him, he could easily light us up.   Ding ding.
read the stats man....bandwagon post??    Right now there's none close to him....he's on pace for a record breaking season for a CANADIAN QB!!   Will he have ups and downs?   Most likely however he's got more up than down.   Even Zach has thrown 2 picks but only has 3 TDs.   Nathan has 9!   I've been watching football for 62 years and have never ever seen any QB let alone a Canadian QB....not even Russ Jackson (who was superlative)....have this kind of success!!
You casually downplay this by saying we'll pressure him and be ok.   I think all 3 teams that have played him tried that and how did that work out? You're so **** sure and then call me a bit of a "bandwagon" poster!
EVERY QB has some weakness but my point is about his tremendous upside despite showing us some of his weaknesses.       
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on July 03, 2022, 12:26:11 PM
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on July 03, 2022, 05:39:24 AM
read the stats man....bandwagon post??    Right now there's none close to him....he's on pace for a record breaking season for a CANADIAN QB!!   Will he have ups and downs?   Most likely however he's got more up than down.   Even Zach has thrown 2 picks but only has 3 TDs.   Nathan has 9!   I've been watching football for 62 years and have never ever seen any QB let alone a Canadian QB....not even Russ Jackson (who was superlative)....have this kind of success!!
You casually downplay this by saying we'll pressure him and be ok.   I think all 3 teams that have played him tried that and how did that work out? You're so **** sure and then call me a bit of a "bandwagon" poster!
EVERY QB has some weakness but my point is about his tremendous upside despite showing us some of his weaknesses.       

Linc speaks the truth. Ding ding. 8)
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on July 03, 2022, 02:48:40 PM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 03, 2022, 12:26:11 PM
Linc speaks the truth. Ding ding. 8)
Thanks Goldie....I try not to diss other posters and respect their opinions despite not always agreeing with them.   There are many posters on here that have superior technical knowledge of the game and I will never be at their level.   However, being a Bomber fan for 62 years I have observed and followed this team through the good years and the bad ones and have opinions based on this obsessive fandom.   I'm certainly no self proclaimed expert and perhaps my perspective is permanently tinted B&G, however despite this, I try to remain objective.   
I'm excited for BC and hope their fandom is revived by having Nathan Rourke in their fold.  I also hope he continues to be successful and he gets even better.    How exciting would that be for this league?! The overall health of the CFL will benefit from this.   As for franchises like the Argos.....well their lack of fan support concerns me and I also hope AH can be instrumental in attracting more bums in seats albeit schools still out(until he can prove otherwise) on his career longevity.   However, when he is motivated, he can still be a force, despite his 35 years. I hope he has a good game against us win or lose. 

We are missing a lot of key people and despite MOS's "next man up" mantra, losing them now, at the toughest part of our schedule, is going to impact us negatively.....especially Nic Demski who is sooooo under rated.

PJR has a penchant for dismissing other opinions meanwhile  elevating his own as being infallible and expert.   I usually ignore him but on occasion I have to say something.....albeit I highly doubt it will ever make him think to change his dismissive style of interaction with fellow posters.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on July 03, 2022, 03:06:25 PM
His dismissive condescending holier than thou style alienates a lot of us to the point where we don?t participate in the discussion at all.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Tiger on July 03, 2022, 04:16:18 PM
I am blown away by Rourke?s success.  Numbers are startling, and Burnham is injured.  It was nice of him to throw the two int?s to show he is human.  I am very impressed by his ability to read D and adjust. He is making very good decisions and that is hard to game plan against.

One question:  is it just me or does Rourke read and do better against zone defence?

No weaknesses? I would disagree. He does not seem to have the strength and touch for the long ball which the WBB can exploit.

That said I realize this is a small body of work and overall BC is much overall improved (with their defence challenging Rourke?s accomplishments). Further Butler?s success is giving Rourke?s opportunities.

I look forward to playing BC. I think this will come down to our D line, especially Jefferson and Jeffcoat to stop the run, contain, and pressure against Rourke and BC run game. Offence will need to put up some more points and our use of zones may need to change.

Wish Rourke the best, but not against WBB.

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on July 03, 2022, 04:48:39 PM
Inexperience will show at times. Pressure from a front 7 against any QB causes mistakes and that's where the Bombers thrive. OTOH, if a QB can read the defence and make quick decisions he can beat enormous pressure. That's partially on him but his OL and RB must be able to give him that time.

Overall I think he can do well but I'm not so sure about his OL in spite of the 3 - 0 record.

Really impressed with what Rourke has done in his 1st 4 starts.

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bluebeard on July 03, 2022, 05:32:59 PM
I'm also impressed by Rourke's play but he does have a lot of weapons on offense to look at.  The one that really turns my crank is Ford in Edmonton.  He does not have the numerous weapons that Rourke has, or the offensive line.  He has to use his feet to escape the pressure., but he can get the job done.  I also forgot to mention that the BC defense gets the ball back quickly so that Rourke can get back on the field.

Two very promising Canadian QBs in the league.  This should make some of the American coaches take another look at USport QBs or Canadian QB in US college ball.  This is great for the CFL game
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 03, 2022, 07:49:02 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 03, 2022, 04:48:39 PM
Inexperience will show at times. Pressure from a front 7 against any QB causes mistakes and that's where the Bombers thrive. OTOH, if a QB can read the defence and make quick decisions he can beat enormous pressure. That's partially on him but his OL and RB must be able to give him that time.

Overall I think he can do well but I'm not so sure about his OL in spite of the 3 - 0 record.

Really impressed with what Rourke has done in his 1st 4 starts.

A number of Rourke's passes were deflected by the D-line in the game against the RB's, hopefully Jefferson and crew get their hands up in the passing lanes and cause a few intercepts.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: the paw on July 03, 2022, 10:43:36 PM
Rourke has been outstanding, but he?s not going to sustain this level of play for the whole year.  Running QBs always have defences on their back heels initially, until they either get dinged, or defences come up with specific strategies to defend them.  Having said that, he could cool off by 15% and still be in the conversation for MOP.

If Rourke keeps playing like this, two things will happen.  First, he will get an NFL shot.  Second, if the NFL doesn?t work out, his contract is going to leap to market value, and BC won?t be able to afford the arsenal of offensive weapons to surround him.  Neither of those helps us stop him this year, but at least he won?t upset the competitive balance of the league for long.  In the meantime, the boys are going to have to strap up and play BC tough.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TBURGESS on July 03, 2022, 10:49:12 PM
We haven't played a team with a win yet this year. On Monday, we play Toronto who has one win only because Montreal couldn't connect on a 21 yard FG.

BC has beaten a team with 1 win, Edmonton, but Edmonton's win was in the battle of the worst 2 teams in the league.

Next week is a huge game for both teams. A 4 point battle for first. Two good teams playing a good team for the first time this season. I can hardly wait.

Oh yah! I almost forgot. Bombers should be able to win tomorrow in a big way.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: pjrocksmb on July 04, 2022, 12:05:04 AM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 03, 2022, 07:49:02 PM
A number of Rourke's passes were deflected by the D-line in the game against the RB's, hopefully Jefferson and crew get their hands up in the passing lanes and cause a few intercepts.
Good game plan, likely to happen
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 03, 2022, 04:48:39 PM
Inexperience will show at times. Pressure from a front 7 against any QB causes mistakes and that's where the Bombers thrive. OTOH, if a QB can read the defence and make quick decisions he can beat enormous pressure. That's partially on him but his OL and RB must be able to give him that time.

Overall I think he can do well but I'm not so sure about his OL in spite of the 3 - 0 record.

Really impressed with what Rourke has done in his 1st 4 starts.


Agree
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on July 03, 2022, 05:39:24 AM
read the stats man....bandwagon post??    Right now there's none close to him....he's on pace for a record breaking season for a CANADIAN QB!!   Will he have ups and downs?   Most likely however he's got more up than down.   Even Zach has thrown 2 picks but only has 3 TDs.   Nathan has 9!   I've been watching football for 62 years and have never ever seen any QB let alone a Canadian QB....not even Russ Jackson (who was superlative)....have this kind of success!!
You casually downplay this by saying we'll pressure him and be ok.   I think all 3 teams that have played him tried that and how did that work out? You're so **** sure and then call me a bit of a "bandwagon" poster!
EVERY QB has some weakness but my point is about his tremendous upside despite showing us some of his weaknesses.      

Read my posts again, I'll say it again.  Love his play, impressed but him but last game he started to show some weakness and we can agree on one thing yes he will have his ups and downs.  His start to his career is nothing but spectacular and I hope he keeps it up.

My original post was to simply state that we have what looks like a good qb that can and will be beat.  Band wagon post was wrong, perhaps you had too much orange koolaid? lol, sorry for suggesting the band wagon thing, that wasn't a good fit for what you said.  A good d and right schemes can and will beat this guy.  Like I said he could roast us but I'm expecting the league and specifically our defense to figure him out.  The challenge is shutting him, the run game and all the great receivers at the same time.  The ding ding was to sound round 1 vs BC.  Will be great to find out if he can continue to dominate, moderates or we shut him down like we have done for 2 or 3 years straight for every other team and qb that we play.

And yes his stats are out of this world.  They are unlikely to continue on that same pace however but you never know.  If they do he is NFL bound and wouldn't that be cool.

However I strongly disagree with your one statement about their being no one close to him.  While from a stats perspective you are correct; stats don't always tell you the full story.  The quarterback position is one that will requires many years to show who can do it and who is going to be a star in the league.  Starting to say that someone's going to be that great based on a small sample size of games really doesn't carry any Merit in the way I look at football.  Everyone on here will remember how I take a long-term view of things;I don't look at what happens in one game or in a series of games to determine what I think about a team a coach or a player. Long-term success is all that matters.  Rourke is likely to have this in his future.  However it's not a guarantee and he will see a great deal of adversity in his career.   The announcers did talk about that and they wanted to see how he would do it with adversity.   I know Russ Jackson wanted to see the same; it's easy when you're riding a wave of success, let's see what you do after the opposite.  I wish him the best of luck he's a great a Rising Star but let's not get too carried away here is really my point.  The outcome I like to see the most is our defense Rock them but then he learns from it and continues to grow as a pro because I do want him to have success.  He is important to the success of the CFL and he will bring a great deal of attention to league if he does rip it up.  Having Ford do the same at the same time would blow my mind.  Love the CFL because of its Canadian players!!!!

I am am excited for the BC franchise to gain more success and fans.

Quote from: dd on July 03, 2022, 03:06:25 PM
His dismissive condescending holier than thou style alienates a lot of us to the point where we don?t participate in the discussion at all.
No need to take personal shots and I'll try to do the same.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 03, 2022, 12:26:11 PM
Linc speaks the truth. Ding ding. 8)
Please ignore my posts and I'll try to return the favour.
I used the ding ding as to ring the bell on the 1st match up between the clubs
Quote from: bluebeard on July 03, 2022, 05:32:59 PM
I'm also impressed by Rourke's play but he does have a lot of weapons on offense to look at.  The one that really turns my crank is Ford in Edmonton.  He does not have the numerous weapons that Rourke has, or the offensive line.  He has to use his feet to escape the pressure., but he can get the job done.  I also forgot to mention that the BC defense gets the ball back quickly so that Rourke can get back on the field.

Two very promising Canadian QBs in the league.  This should make some of the American coaches take another look at USport QBs or Canadian QB in US college ball.  This is great for the CFL game
Also equally impressed by Ford.  So exciting to have these two play well early.  But its still too early to make any concrete predictions on their future success (more so with Ford) Agree on this being great for league and will get us more attention
.
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on July 03, 2022, 02:48:40 PM
Thanks Goldie....I try not to diss other posters and respect their opinions despite not always agreeing with them.   There are many posters on here that have superior technical knowledge of the game and I will never be at their level.   However, being a Bomber fan for 62 years I have observed and followed this team through the good years and the bad ones and have opinions based on this obsessive fandom.   I'm certainly no self proclaimed expert and perhaps my perspective is permanently tinted B&G, however despite this, I try to remain objective.  
I'm excited for BC and hope their fandom is revived by having Nathan Rourke in their fold.  I also hope he continues to be successful and he gets even better.    How exciting would that be for this league?! The overall health of the CFL will benefit from this.   As for franchises like the Argos.....well their lack of fan support concerns me and I also hope AH can be instrumental in attracting more bums in seats albeit schools still out(until he can prove otherwise) on his career longevity.   However, when he is motivated, he can still be a force, despite his 35 years. I hope he has a good game against us win or lose. 

We are missing a lot of key people and despite MOS's "next man up" mantra, losing them now, at the toughest part of our schedule, is going to impact us negatively.....especially Nic Demski who is sooooo under rated.

PJR has a penchant for dismissing other opinions meanwhile  elevating his own as being infallible and expert.   I usually ignore him but on occasion I have to say something.....albeit I highly doubt it will ever make him think to change his dismissive style of interaction with fellow posters.
I apologize if my opinion came on too strong.  I will always give my opinion on here.  No expert on football but collectively through debate we certainly all learn and present our views.  I am as high on Rourke as likely you are but simply wanted to remind you and the forum that he is beatable.  That said I think we would have a great chance to beat him when healthy on D, right not hard to say with a few missing key guys.  Pretty nice to debate how good a Canadian QB is, we can both agree he's pretty special.  What's your view on Ford?
Quote from: the paw on July 03, 2022, 10:43:36 PM
Rourke has been outstanding, but he?s not going to sustain this level of play for the whole year.  Running QBs always have defences on their back heels initially, until they either get dinged, or defences come up with specific strategies to defend them.  Having said that, he could cool off by 15% and still be in the conversation for MOP.

If Rourke keeps playing like this, two things will happen.  First, he will get an NFL shot.  Second, if the NFL doesn?t work out, his contract is going to leap to market value, and BC won?t be able to afford the arsenal of offensive weapons to surround him.  Neither of those helps us stop him this year, but at least he won?t upset the competitive balance of the league for long.  In the meantime, the boys are going to have to strap up and play BC tough.
Agree all
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on July 04, 2022, 04:07:26 AM
Love the stir and excitement Rourke is causing around the league, hope he keeps going strong, it ll be great for youth football across Canada.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on July 04, 2022, 07:59:25 PM
Quote from: dd on July 04, 2022, 04:07:26 AM
Love the stir and excitement Rourke is causing around the league, hope he keeps going strong, it ll be great for youth football across Canada.
Exactly.....can't recall another time in the history of the CFL where two Canadian QBs started a game and both games were won?   This can only help the CFL in the long run.   
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: pjrocksmb on July 04, 2022, 09:00:14 PM
Quote from: dd on July 04, 2022, 04:07:26 AM
Love the stir and excitement Rourke is causing around the league, hope he keeps going strong, it ll be great for youth football across Canada.
100% agree
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on July 04, 2022, 07:59:25 PM
Exactly.....can't recall another time in the history of the CFL where two Canadian QBs started a game and both games were won?   This can only help the CFL in the long run.  
Agree, lets enjoy the run and keep arguing about how good they are ;)

Great place for the league to be in!
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on July 04, 2022, 10:16:30 PM
All of this could influence the 2023 draft as teams start looking at other Canadian QB's. Now that we've gone back to 3 QB's on a roster, teams can re-consider giving a Canadian QB a more serious view.  I don't know which QB's might be eligible in 2023 or beyond but interest level may be going up.

It's good for the CFL.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: pjrocksmb on July 04, 2022, 10:52:24 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 04, 2022, 10:16:30 PM
All of this could influence the 2023 draft as teams start looking at other Canadian QB's. Now that we've gone back to 3 QB's on a roster, teams can re-consider giving a Canadian QB a more serious view.  I don't know which QB's might be eligible in 2023 or beyond but interest level may be going up.

It's good for the CFL.

Will be great to follow this as I know many on here follow the draft closely.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: CrazyCanuck89 on July 05, 2022, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 04, 2022, 10:16:30 PM
All of this could influence the 2023 draft as teams start looking at other Canadian QB's. Now that we've gone back to 3 QB's on a roster, teams can re-consider giving a Canadian QB a more serious view.  I don't know which QB's might be eligible in 2023 or beyond but interest level may be going up.

It's good for the CFL.

Their is one at Penn St who might win the starting job there.

Nathan's brother at Ohio University.  Plus they recruited another Canadian QB.

Plus many other USPORTS QBs

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: M.O.A.B. on July 05, 2022, 03:02:31 PM
2022 NCAA Spring Rosters - 10 Cdn QB's :     
           
Keyshawn Dorsey - D2 Simon Fraser
Chad Owens Jr. - D1 Hawaii
Marcus Reeb - D3 Minnesota Morris
Kurtis Rourke - D1 Ohio
Karis Saplys - D2 William Jewell
Dylan Tabone - D1 Western Illinois
Quincy Vaughn - D1 North Dakota
Christian Veilleux - D1 Penn State
Callum Wither - D1 Ohio
Jack Zergiotis - D1 Connecticut
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on July 05, 2022, 04:05:40 PM
Quote from: M.O.A.B. on July 05, 2022, 03:02:31 PM
2022 NCAA Spring Rosters - 10 Cdn QB's :     
           
Keyshawn Dorsey - D2 Simon Fraser
Chad Owens Jr. - D1 Hawaii
Marcus Reeb - D3 Minnesota Morris
Kurtis Rourke - D1 Ohio
Karis Saplys - D2 William Jewell
Dylan Tabone - D1 Western Illinois
Quincy Vaughn - D1 North Dakota
Christian Veilleux - D1 Penn State
Callum Wither - D1 Ohio
Jack Zergiotis - D1 Connecticut

How many are in their final year and will be in the 2023 draft?
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: The Zipp on October 01, 2022, 05:03:10 PM
Dude is gonna be back for the playoffs...we need Toronto to beat BC next week
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on October 01, 2022, 05:11:21 PM
Quote from: The Zipp on October 01, 2022, 05:03:10 PM
Dude is gonna be back for the playoffs...we need Toronto to beat BC next week

I wouldn't count him available just yet.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Pigskin on October 01, 2022, 05:22:38 PM
We already beat BC in BC with Rourke as QB. We get him here on a cool to cold day with IG field sold out. The kid will have some problems.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on October 01, 2022, 05:42:31 PM
The emotional boost to BC if he came back would be huge!

Next week I expect bad VAJ to emerge, and I believe that we can clinch first next week, if they lose and we win??

Bigger concern for BC is if Burnham and Lucky are long term, couple that with Rourke out and that is some serious talent out for them!
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: The Zipp on October 13, 2022, 12:34:43 AM
Rourke is back at practice.  Video of him throwing...not running though
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: The Zipp on October 16, 2022, 02:37:19 AM
Sounds like he will be back for playoffs...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 16, 2022, 02:42:17 AM
Quote from: The Zipp on October 16, 2022, 02:37:19 AM
Sounds like he will be back for playoffs...
50/50

How is he performs is another. Home field needed for Rourkes sake if possible.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on October 16, 2022, 03:11:01 PM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on October 16, 2022, 02:42:17 AM
50/50

How is he performs is another. Home field needed for Rourkes sake if possible.

Lions will have to play in Winnipeg if they win the WSF at home against the Stamps.

There is still a possibility that the Lions finish 3rd. If they lose their last 2 games and the Stamps win their last 2 games then the Lions finish 3rd.

I can't see that happening but it's not a done deal yet.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Pigskin on October 16, 2022, 03:24:08 PM
Quote from: The Zipp on October 13, 2022, 12:34:43 AM
Rourke is back at practice.  Video of him throwing...not running though

He still has pain in his foot. So, if you can't run, you're a dead duck. On a cool/cold day in Winnipeg, he would feel the pain a lot more.

AH33 running at Argo practice, doesn't mean his upper body has healed enough to play in a game.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TBURGESS on October 16, 2022, 03:33:47 PM
Rourke can't run yet. He needs to be able to do that before he can start.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on October 16, 2022, 08:22:16 PM
Rourke coming back is a bad idea for BC, but more so for Rourke.

He has a bright career ahead of him.  Taking a risk coming back to helm a depleated team with little chance of success is far too high a risk / reward.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on October 16, 2022, 09:31:34 PM
I don?t think BC has little chance of success, if he?s back to normal, they beat Calgary easily and we ll have to play letter perfect football. They have a wicked return game, which will give him great field position, Butler is a beast running back and their D is decent. They have just as good a chance to win it as any one
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 16, 2022, 10:10:54 PM
Quote from: dd on October 16, 2022, 09:31:34 PM
I don?t think BC has little chance of success, if he?s back to normal, they beat Calgary easily and we ll have to play letter perfect football. They have a wicked return game, which will give him great field position, Butler is a beast running back and their D is decent. They have just as good a chance to win it as any one

They a very well constructed roster throughout. With or without Rourke they are most certainly a threat in the playoffs. No question about it.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bomb squad on October 16, 2022, 11:02:09 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on October 16, 2022, 08:22:16 PM
Rourke coming back is a bad idea for BC, but more so for Rourke.

He has a bright career ahead of him.  Taking a risk coming back to helm a depleated team with little chance of success is far too high a risk / reward.

Come on Aards. They're the 2nd best team in the league. Everybody's roster is depleted at this time of year. They'll likely clinch home field for the semi next week and will be able to rest players for the final regular season game. Not exactly set up for "little chance of success".
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 16, 2022, 11:16:28 PM
Quote from: bomb squad on October 16, 2022, 11:02:09 PM
Come on Aards. They're the 2nd best team in the league. Everybody's roster is depleted at this time of year. They'll likely clinch home field for the semi next week and will be able to rest players for the final regular season game. Not exactly set up for "little chance of success".
^ this. Right on the money. No blue n gold coloured glasses opinion here!
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bomb squad on October 16, 2022, 11:31:37 PM
This is how I see it going down for BC. They'll clinch next week against the Elks. They will play Rourke here in Wpg, but only a quarter tops. They'll see how he does with his injury. Adams will not play. If Rourke does ok, he will start in the semi. In not, it will be Adams. If Rourke does well, they will sell out the stadium for the semi. And I'm not talking lower deck only.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on October 16, 2022, 11:46:31 PM
Whatever game Rourke comes back, he ll start and play until he?s executing the offense well then they ll save him for their playoff run.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 16, 2022, 11:47:59 PM
Quote from: bomb squad on October 16, 2022, 11:31:37 PM
This is how I see it going down for BC. They'll clinch next week against the Elks. They will play Rourke here in Wpg, but only a quarter tops. They'll see how he does with his injury. Adams will not play. If Rourke does ok, he will start in the semi. In not, it will be Adams. If Rourke does well, they will sell out the stadium for the semi. And I'm not talking lower deck only.
wow how precise of you. Playing Rourke in the regular finale would be just plain dumb of BC. He may play in the Western semi final bit no earlier.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bomb squad on October 17, 2022, 02:24:14 AM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on October 16, 2022, 11:47:59 PM
wow how precise of you. Playing Rourke in the regular finale would be just plain dumb of BC. He may play in the Western semi final bit no earlier.

Well, I guess you can call BC plain dumb then. The report during yesterday's telecast was they're targeting his return for the final game in Wpg. Unless I heard wrong, but I don't think so.   
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 17, 2022, 02:28:17 AM
Quote from: bomb squad on October 17, 2022, 02:24:14 AM
Well, I guess you can call BC plain dumb then. The report during yesterday's telecast was they're targeting his return for the final game in Wpg. Unless I heard wrong, but I don't think so.   
fair enough, I guess BC wants to push it with Rourke.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on October 17, 2022, 02:54:27 AM
I m thinking they want him to shake off any rust he may have in a nothing game when the bombers will be resting some of their key personnel
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 17, 2022, 04:36:46 AM
Quote from: Pigskin on October 16, 2022, 03:24:08 PM
He still has pain in his foot. So, if you can't run, you're a dead duck. On a cool/cold day in Winnipeg, he would feel the pain a lot more.

Who does he think he is, Streveler?  :o :D :D :D

No one but Strevie can be Strevie.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Waffler on October 17, 2022, 01:22:43 PM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on October 17, 2022, 02:28:17 AM
fair enough, I guess BC wants to push it with Rourke.

This is exactly what they will do. They must think Rourke at whatever % is greater than Adams at 100%.

We will know a lot more this week, if he is able to practice again and what happens with that.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on October 17, 2022, 04:45:31 PM
Let's not forget Rourke is first and foremost a Canadian and has played in the "elements".    The guy borders on supernatural abilities and if he plays in the last game against us at home he will be a factor even if Zach plays.   Win or lose this last season regular game, we still play on Nov. 13 at home and a few weeks ago we thought for certain it was going to be against Calgary.   If Rourke is in that certainly tilts the tables in their favour.   He is THAT good!   
THAT being said, I still like our chances of playing for a 3rd consecutive Cup in Regina!
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on October 17, 2022, 04:53:03 PM
Quote from: bomb squad on October 16, 2022, 11:02:09 PM
Come on Aards. They're the 2nd best team in the league. Everybody's roster is depleted at this time of year. They'll likely clinch home field for the semi next week and will be able to rest players for the final regular season game. Not exactly set up for "little chance of success".

We voluntarily sat players and almost beat them.  They have a lot of injuries, and lost more in game.

If Rourke is 100%, and Burnham/Lucky are back, then BC is a contender.

If Rourke is 75%, he is at risk getting injured worse, either exacerbating current injury or suffering a new one because he cannot effectively evade tacklers.

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 18, 2022, 12:07:10 AM
Rourke is great, but remember we already beat him once on pretty even terms (they had Lucky but not Burnham I don't think?).  What Rourke does is turn a middling team (yes, middling, ex-WRs) into a contender.  But the rest of the team is still middling.

And Rourke is still in his first real "starting" year, and those QBs are always susceptible to wily DCs (see Dru's performance).

I am fully confident Hall can rip apart Rourke again in the WDF... if Rourke starts.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on October 18, 2022, 12:26:31 AM
I dunno if BC is middling. I don?t consider Rymes or Burnham middling receivers -they are elite. I don?t think Butler is a middling running back, he is a threat every time he carries the ball. I don?t think Williams is a middling returner , he burned us big last game. And Rourke is far from middling, if he?s 100% it is on and we ll have to play at a high level to beat them. Can?t afford no 3 interception or missed kicks game against them
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: pjrocksmb on October 18, 2022, 02:04:51 AM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 18, 2022, 12:07:10 AM
Rourke is great, but remember we already beat him once on pretty even terms (they had Lucky but not Burnham I don't think?).  What Rourke does is turn a middling team (yes, middling, ex-WRs) into a contender.  But the rest of the team is still middling.

And Rourke is still in his first real "starting" year, and those QBs are always susceptible to wily DCs (see Dru's performance).

I am fully confident Hall can rip apart Rourke again in the WDF... if Rourke starts.

Hall genius will destroy the competition.  All about execution by the players and limiting turn overs.  Our DL and OL are elite and if those two units play to their full potential, nobody can touch us.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on October 18, 2022, 03:50:44 AM
Quote from: pjrocksmb on October 18, 2022, 02:04:51 AM
Hall genius will destroy the competition.  All about execution by the players and limiting turn overs.  Our DL and OL are elite and if those two units play to their full potential, nobody can touch us.
I like your confidence, albeit somewhat misguided.  You said the same thing about the Riders and Cats last year and we escaped both of those games by the narrowest of margins....one in OT no less. 
I suggest the WF will be a similar dog fight whether we play BC or Calgary, although not beating us this year were in every game we played them down to the wire.   

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Waffler on October 18, 2022, 02:36:35 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on October 17, 2022, 04:53:03 PM

If Rourke is 75%, he is at risk getting injured worse, either exacerbating current injury or suffering a new one because he cannot effectively evade tacklers.


He just has to play more of a quick release game, adjust to what he CAN do and avoid hits. That said, he is young and in the heat of battle is likely to play sometimes on instinct.  I really think though he will be close to 100% by Nov 13. BC has to make it there first though and Calgary is not exactly chopped liver. They have 2 QB's they can win with also.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on October 18, 2022, 03:16:24 PM
Quote from: Waffler on October 18, 2022, 02:36:35 PM
He just has to play more of a quick release game, adjust to what he CAN do and avoid hits. That said, he is young and in the heat of battle is likely to play sometimes on instinct.  I really think though he will be close to 100% by Nov 13. BC has to make it there first though and Calgary is not exactly chopped liver. They have 2 QB's they can win with also.

They would need him to make it to Nov 13... and I don't see him at 75% before then.

Yes, he has a quick throw ability, but it was his scramble that set him apart.  If he has reduced mobility, DL pins its ears back, every WR is bumped in the 5 yard zone and he's done.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GCn19 on October 18, 2022, 04:02:07 PM
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on October 17, 2022, 04:45:31 PM
Let's not forget Rourke is first and foremost a Canadian and has played in the "elements".    The guy borders on supernatural abilities and if he plays in the last game against us at home he will be a factor even if Zach plays.   Win or lose this last season regular game, we still play on Nov. 13 at home and a few weeks ago we thought for certain it was going to be against Calgary.   If Rourke is in that certainly tilts the tables in their favour.   He is THAT good!   
THAT being said, I still like our chances of playing for a 3rd consecutive Cup in Regina!

We absolutely destroyed a superhot Rourke and BC Lions, and that is when he was 100% healthy in perfect weather. I see no reason to believe that he, or the Lions, can beat us at home in the WF. The only team that can beat the Bombers is the Bombers themselves.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GCn19 on October 18, 2022, 04:03:06 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 18, 2022, 12:07:10 AM
Rourke is great, but remember we already beat him once on pretty even terms (they had Lucky but not Burnham I don't think?).  What Rourke does is turn a middling team (yes, middling, ex-WRs) into a contender.  But the rest of the team is still middling.

And Rourke is still in his first real "starting" year, and those QBs are always susceptible to wily DCs (see Dru's performance).

I am fully confident Hall can rip apart Rourke again in the WDF... if Rourke starts.


QFT
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GCn19 on October 18, 2022, 04:07:01 PM
Quote from: Waffler on October 17, 2022, 01:22:43 PM
This is exactly what they will do. They must think Rourke at whatever % is greater than Adams at 100%.

We will know a lot more this week, if he is able to practice again and what happens with that.


I would think that Rourke at 75% is slightly better than Adams....but that isn't exactly all star level by any stretch of the imagination. I don't see a rookie QB, coming off a serious injury who is highly unlikely to be 100% being any more of a threat in the playoffs than any other QB we may face on our road to the 3peat.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 18, 2022, 05:10:57 PM
Quote from: pjrocksmb on October 18, 2022, 02:04:51 AM
Hall genius will destroy the competition.  All about execution by the players and limiting turn overs.  Our DL and OL are elite and if those two units play to their full potential, nobody can touch us.

This is pretty unrealistic, the O-line is solid but diminished from last year's version and Willie may be the only Bomber D-lineman that receives all-star votes this season, he might make the Western team but I doubt he's selected for the CFL all-star team this year.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blue_gold_84 on October 18, 2022, 07:37:17 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 18, 2022, 05:10:57 PM
This is pretty unrealistic, the O-line is solid but diminished from last year's version and Willie may be the only Bomber D-lineman that receives all-star votes this season, he might make the Western team but I doubt he's selected for the CFL all-star team this year.

As a unit, the D-line has remained pretty effective. They don't all need to be all-stars.

And Jefferson's stat line isn't all that different from last season.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 18, 2022, 08:14:25 PM
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on October 18, 2022, 07:37:17 PM
As a unit, the D-line has remained pretty effective. They don't all need to be all-stars.

And Jefferson's stat line isn't all that different from last season.

I'm going to disagree with you on this point, I think the D-line has shown significant slippage from last year, in run stopping and QB sacks, though most of it can be attributed to losing Richardson and Kongbo and the injuries to Jeffcoat and Hansen.

As for Willie, Shawn Lemon has had an outstanding season and outperformed him in a number of stat. categories this year, and will probably be rewarded as a nod to his lengthy CFL career.  I'd still take Willie over any DE in the league for his versatility and big play ability.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 18, 2022, 11:37:28 PM
Quote from: dd on October 18, 2022, 12:26:31 AM
I dunno if BC is middling. I don?t consider Rymes or Burnham middling receivers -they are elite. I don?t think Butler is a middling running back, he is a threat every time he carries the ball. I don?t think Williams is a middling returner , he burned us big last game. And Rourke is far from middling, if he?s 100% it is on and we ll have to play at a high level to beat them. Can?t afford no 3 interception or missed kicks game against them

But you could say the same thing about EDM.  Lawyler/Mitchell instead of Rhymes/Burnham.  Brown instead of Butler.  Salisbury vs T.Williams.  VAJ vs Corney.  But no one would say EDM is a great team.  Heck, even calling EDM "middling" is a stretch.

The only reason BC is in the shape they are in right now is because of Rourke blowing up every team (except us) for 40-60 points the first half of the season.  Then, like most mobile young QBs, he gets injured.

If Rourke plays, they look like a great team, but it's still just a middling team with a superb QB.  The proof is right in front of our eyes: just look at how BC does with VAJ starting!  I think he had one really good game, but still looked poor compared to Rourke.

That said, I think BC is on the way up, and probably will be a top-3 team next year, and not just because of QB play.  Campbell and their GM are making all the right moves.  They are building a very competent D.  But to say BC is "great" now is too much of a stretch because they are still in rebuild mode off of a horrific 2021 season (with many of the same players!).  I think when BC truly "arrives" we'll know it by them starting 3+ NAT OL like every other team.  (They are still using the "crutch" of a 3rd IMP OL.)

I get the sense Rourke & the BC out-performance (likely 2nd in W) took even Campbell/GM by surprise, and they are smart enough to try to capitalize right now with urgency to get to and win the GC.  In that sense I see BC starting Rourke in the WSF even if it injures him further, because they know they have an unexpected, legit shot at the cup... BUT only with Rourke.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 18, 2022, 11:39:55 PM
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on October 18, 2022, 03:50:44 AM
I like your confidence, albeit somewhat misguided.  You said the same thing about the Riders and Cats last year and we escaped both of those games by the narrowest of margins....one in OT no less. 
I suggest the WF will be a similar dog fight whether we play BC or Calgary, although not beating us this year were in every game we played them down to the wire.   

What does Milt say?  They won baby!  They won!  That's all that matters  ;D ;D ;D  "Close" didn't get SSK to the GC, did it.

I'm not confident in that we'll blow them up.  It probably will be a dogfight just like you say.  But what I am confident on is that we pull out the win.  Because if we play Bomber ball and the other team doesn't get insanely lucky our quality will beat their lack of it after 60 minutes.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 18, 2022, 11:45:34 PM
Quote from: GCn19 on October 18, 2022, 04:02:07 PM
We absolutely destroyed a superhot Rourke and BC Lions, and that is when he was 100% healthy in perfect weather. I see no reason to believe that he, or the Lions, can beat us at home in the WF. The only team that can beat the Bombers is the Bombers themselves.

Ya, the Rourke/BC "is the next Flutie or '78-'82 Eskimos" people all seem to forget the easy trouncing we put on Rourke/BC mid-season.  We shut that kid down big time.

It's not just Rourke vs our D, it's Maksymic vs Hall.  It's a battle of the brains as much as brawn.  My money is on Hall's brain.  Dude is my hero.  No matter how good Rourke is, he's still basically a 1st year starter and is susceptible to all the 1st year starter mistakes and confusion that Hall can induce.  All we'll need is our D to execute at a consistent level and keep their heads.  And for Zach to keep up with any scoring that even a great D can't stop.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: RebusRankin on October 19, 2022, 01:16:42 AM
So that injury is supposed to lay you up for 3-6 months and Rourke is going to play in 2? BC is lying or rushing him.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 19, 2022, 01:49:02 AM
Quote from: RebusRankin on October 19, 2022, 01:16:42 AM
So that injury is supposed to lay you up for 3-6 months and Rourke is going to play in 2? BC is lying or rushing him.
I cannot disagree with medical history.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 19, 2022, 03:46:06 AM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 18, 2022, 11:45:34 PM
Ya, the Rourke/BC "is the next Flutie or '78-'82 Eskimos" people all seem to forget the easy trouncing we put on Rourke/BC mid-season.  We shut that kid down big time.

It's not just Rourke vs our D, it's Maksymic vs Hall.  It's a battle of the brains as much as brawn.  My money is on Hall's brain.  Dude is my hero.  No matter how good Rourke is, he's still basically a 1st year starter and is susceptible to all the 1st year starter mistakes and confusion that Hall can induce.  All we'll need is our D to execute at a consistent level and keep their heads.  And for Zach to keep up with any scoring that even a great D can't stop.


In the Bombers most impressive wins this year including the early win over BC, it's been Zach and the offence that  lead the charge.  I listened to a CFL podcast this week with 4 panelists from around the CFL, and they all agreed that the Bomber offence is now the driving force in most of their victories, were as in 2019 and 2021 it was the defence doing most of the heavy lifting.  Have to give Buck credit, he's stepped out from behind LaPo's apron and made the offence much more explosive this season.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 19, 2022, 09:10:18 AM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 19, 2022, 03:46:06 AM
In the Bombers most impressive wins this year including the early win over BC, it's been Zach and the offence that  lead the charge.  I listened to a CFL podcast this week with 4 panelists from around the CFL, and they all agreed that the Bomber offence is now the driving force in most of their victories, were as in 2019 and 2021 it was the defence doing most of the heavy lifting.  Have to give Buck credit, he's stepped out from behind LaPo's apron and made the offence much more explosive this season.

Agree on all points.  Good points.  The fun part will be what if in playoffs/GC the defense plays (near) up to their '19-'21 level... If they can get to 80% 2021 and our O is clicking, other teams are doomed.

My hunch is we do it like we've done since '19, one phase will step up when one other is sputtering a bit.  But odds say the O shines.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on October 19, 2022, 04:31:51 PM
Lions want to extend Rourke before the end of the season. While that's a great idea I think it's against the CBA? I was under the impression that players in their 1st contracts cannot be re-negotiated?

Is that correct or just a myth?

Rourke showed a talent we haven't seen from a rookie QB in a long time. The catch is his injury and brief career as the Lions starter. While the injury isn't a long term injury issue, how do you determine his new value? He might play in the last regular season game but that would only be his 10th game.

Does Rourke wait until he sees if he gets any NFL offers from his NFL option window?

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 19, 2022, 04:56:52 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on October 19, 2022, 04:31:51 PM
Lions want to extend Rourke before the end of the season. While that's a great idea I think it's against the CBA? I was under the impression that players in their 1st contracts cannot be re-negotiated?

Is that correct or just a myth?

Rourke showed a talent we haven't seen from a rookie QB in a long time. The catch is his injury and brief career as the Lions starter. While the injury isn't a long term injury issue, how do you determine his new value? He might play in the last regular season game but that would only be his 10th game.

Does Rourke wait until he sees if he gets any NFL offers from his NFL option window?

If Rourke is willing to listen to offers, the Lions should pay him whatever they can afford to keep him in the CFL for at least 2-3 more years.  $500k per season isn't out of line IMO, it's not a gamble, he's proven what he can do.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on October 19, 2022, 05:15:50 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on October 19, 2022, 04:31:51 PM
Lions want to extend Rourke before the end of the season. While that's a great idea I think it's against the CBA? I was under the impression that players in their 1st contracts cannot be re-negotiated?

Is that correct or just a myth?

Rourke showed a talent we haven't seen from a rookie QB in a long time. The catch is his injury and brief career as the Lions starter. While the injury isn't a long term injury issue, how do you determine his new value? He might play in the last regular season game but that would only be his 10th game.

Does Rourke wait until he sees if he gets any NFL offers from his NFL option window?

Not sure, but isn't it "The Wilder Rule" that the contracts can be renegotiated mutually?

No reason a player can't be cut, and then re-signed to a longer/better deal if both parties agree...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on October 19, 2022, 06:02:36 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on October 19, 2022, 05:15:50 PM
Not sure, but isn't it "The Wilder Rule" that the contracts can be renegotiated mutually?

No reason a player can't be cut, and then re-signed to a longer/better deal if both parties agree...

No, I think the CBA dictates that the ELC's can't be re-negotiated. It had nothing to do with mutual agreement. At least that has been my understanding. It would prevent a 1st or 2nd year player doing that.

Yes there is a reason a player can't be cut and then re-signed to a longer deal. The league has to approve contracts and I don't think they'd accept using that kind of loophole.

All of that just creates roster instability with the SMS. In a word, chaos.

There is a post suggesting $500K is not unreasonable if it could be done. I think we had similar comments about new QB's like Arbuckle and even Fajardo after success in year 1. Rourke's 9 games were more impressive but it still shows a risk in an early determination.





Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 19, 2022, 06:38:15 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on October 19, 2022, 06:02:36 PM
No, I think the CBA dictates that the ELC's can't be re-negotiated. It had nothing to do with mutual agreement. At least that has been my understanding. It would prevent a 1st or 2nd year player doing that.

Yes there is a reason a player can't be cut and then re-signed to a longer deal. The league has to approve contracts and I don't think they'd accept using that kind of loophole.

All of that just creates roster instability with the SMS. In a word, chaos.

There is a post suggesting $500K is not unreasonable if it could be done. I think we had similar comments about new QB's like Arbuckle and even Fajardo after success in year 1. Rourke's 9 games were more impressive but it still shows a risk in an early determination.

I do believe it's happened before in rare circumstances, BC would be wise to rip up his current contract and renegotiate now if they can. Playing hardball with Rourke will just encourage him to exit stage left at the first opportunity.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on October 19, 2022, 09:12:23 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 19, 2022, 06:38:15 PM
I do believe it's happened before in rare circumstances, BC would be wise to rip up his current contract and renegotiate now if they can. Playing hardball with Rourke will just encourage him to exit stage left at the first opportunity.

Do you have an example? Or do you see something in the CBA that allows that to happen? I don't suggest playing hardball with him but I question whether teams can do that. The other question would be how much is the right amount to increase?

I'm not against teams being able to do this but I see the downside as well.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 19, 2022, 11:53:12 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on October 19, 2022, 09:12:23 PM
Do you have an example? Or do you see something in the CBA that allows that to happen? I don't suggest playing hardball with him but I question whether teams can do that. The other question would be how much is the right amount to increase?

I'm not against teams being able to do this but I see the downside as well.

It's been so long ago I could be wrong about this, but I believe Wally ripped up Jonathan Jennings contract going into the second year of his rookie contract after taking over the starting job from Travis Lulay.

Here it is:

"Jennings made $52,000 as a rookie last year and was slated to make $55,000 this season and $57,000 in 2017 under the terms of his original deal."

"The Lions? boss did give Jennings, 23, a significant boost in pay. According to TSN?s Farhan Lalji, the pivot originally from Columbus, Ohio has a base salary of $150,000 this coming season, followed by $175,000 in 2017 and $300,000 in 2018. There?s also up to $60,000 in bonuses each season, according to Lalji."

"The 24-year-old more than validated the faith shown in him by former coach Jeff Tedford during the quarterback?s first season with Wally Buono on the sidelines. Jennings threw for 5,226 yards, the third-highest total in franchise history, and started every game as a sophomore."

Quite amazing how quickly Jennings career came undun after a couple of good seasons in BC.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on October 20, 2022, 01:39:03 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 19, 2022, 11:53:12 PM
It's been so long ago I could be wrong about this, but I believe Wally ripped up Jonathan Jennings contract going into the second year of his rookie contract after taking over the starting job from Travis Lulay.

Here it is:

"Jennings made $52,000 as a rookie last year and was slated to make $55,000 this season and $57,000 in 2017 under the terms of his original deal."

"The Lions? boss did give Jennings, 23, a significant boost in pay. According to TSN?s Farhan Lalji, the pivot originally from Columbus, Ohio has a base salary of $150,000 this coming season, followed by $175,000 in 2017 and $300,000 in 2018. There?s also up to $60,000 in bonuses each season, according to Lalji."

"The 24-year-old more than validated the faith shown in him by former coach Jeff Tedford during the quarterback?s first season with Wally Buono on the sidelines. Jennings threw for 5,226 yards, the third-highest total in franchise history, and started every game as a sophomore."

Quite amazing how quickly Jennings career came undun after a couple of good seasons in BC.

I always thought that situation was in place more for Canadian players in order to allow for longer development times and overall ratio issues. Because we have to draft Canadians but not imports there is a different risk and cost associated potentially.

More and more Canadians are becoming starters much earlier in their careers, this may need to be changed. Rourke, Ford ( Elks ) and the Phipots come to mind. OTOH the ratio protects them from being replaced by equal imports on ELC's.

CFL ratio is a unique situation. Supply and demand always favours starting quality Canadians.

On one hand the rules should be the same for all players, but we have various mandates for Canadians, Imports and Globals.

In fact we had the same question come up about Hansen and the inability to increase his contact in 2022.

Interesting that Jennings was about to get a new deal during his ELC years. Didn't remember that until you mentioned it.

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TBURGESS on October 20, 2022, 01:41:19 PM
IIRC BC can't renegotiate Rourke's contract because he's on his first contract after being drafted. Canadian draft picks have special rules & the Lions asked the league for an out on this contract because he's worth way more than he's being paid.  
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on October 20, 2022, 01:44:22 PM
Quote from: TBURGESS on October 20, 2022, 01:41:19 PM
IIRC BC can't renegotiate Rourke's contract because he's on his first contract after being drafted. Canadian draft picks have special rules & the Lions asked the league for an out on this contract because he's worth way more than he's being paid.  

That's what I thought was in place for Canadians. It's an unusual situation that doesn't come up often.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on October 20, 2022, 04:09:09 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on October 20, 2022, 01:39:03 PM
I always thought that situation was in place more for Canadian players in order to allow for longer development times and overall ratio issues. Because we have to draft Canadians but not imports there is a different risk and cost associated potentially.

More and more Canadians are becoming starters much earlier in their careers, this may need to be changed. Rourke, Ford ( Elks ) and the Phipots come to mind. OTOH the ratio protects them from being replaced by equal imports on ELC's.

CFL ratio is a unique situation. Supply and demand always favours starting quality Canadians.

On one hand the rules should be the same for all players, but we have various mandates for Canadians, Imports and Globals.

In fact we had the same question come up about Hansen and the inability to increase his contact in 2022.

Interesting that Jennings was about to get a new deal during his ELC years. Didn't remember that until you mentioned it.



Hansen was a completely different issue.  Global players had a hard cap on their contracts, regardless what the term was, how long they'd player, or even what the team wanted to pay them.  Which was addressed in this CBA, so Hansen got a big raise, starting next year...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on October 20, 2022, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on October 20, 2022, 04:09:09 PM
Hansen was a completely different issue.  Global players had a hard cap on their contracts, regardless what the term was, how long they'd player, or even what the team wanted to pay them.  Which was addressed in this CBA, so Hansen got a big raise, starting next year...

The point being that somewhat different rules applied to different roster classifications within the CBA. Up until the new CBA which included the rule carried over to 2022, that the team was not allowed to pay him more even though they wanted to.

Hansen was drafted in 2019 and a free agent going into 2022. In that sense it was an even more unfair rule in the CBA, more than a 3rd year option for a Canadian player.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Jesse on October 20, 2022, 06:55:10 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on October 20, 2022, 04:09:09 PM
Hansen was a completely different issue.  Global players had a hard cap on their contracts, regardless what the term was, how long they'd player, or even what the team wanted to pay them.  Which was addressed in this CBA, so Hansen got a big raise, starting next year...

Same issue, I think we're just wondering if it's applied in this case.

I don't know if it's ever come up that a Canadian so vastly outplayed their starting contract and positional value in this way.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on October 20, 2022, 07:00:27 PM
Quote from: Jesse on October 20, 2022, 06:55:10 PM
Same issue, I think we're just wondering if it's applied in this case.

I don't know if it's ever come up that a Canadian so vastly outplayed their starting contract and positional value in this way.

Hansen was a free agent. Rourke will be in his last year of his contract. Not the same issue. CBA issues as I pointed out.

Muamba might have been a Canadian that became a starter in his 2nd year and earned a raise. Didn't happen then and I can't think of another example.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Jesse on October 20, 2022, 07:06:44 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on October 20, 2022, 07:00:27 PM
Hansen was a free agent. Rourke will be in his last year of his contract. Not the same issue. CBA issues as I pointed out.

Muamba might have been a Canadian that became a starter in his 2nd year and earned a raise. Didn't happen then and I can't think of another example.

Hansen, at the time, could not be paid more because of the CBA. So, I believe it to be the "same issue" just, does the CBA also stipulate that drafted Canadians are unable to renegotiate their first contracts?

You are way too technical sometimes.

Muamba is also a good example, but he was also making at least 90k, so the positional value discrepancy wasn't as large as a QB.

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on October 20, 2022, 07:35:00 PM
Quote from: Jesse on October 20, 2022, 07:06:44 PM
Hansen, at the time, could not be paid more because of the CBA. So, I believe it to be the "same issue" just, does the CBA also stipulate that drafted Canadians are unable to renegotiate their first contracts?

You are way too technical sometimes.

Muamba is also a good example, but he was also making at least 90k, so the positional value discrepancy wasn't as large as a QB.


The rules are technical. They aren't supposed to be iffy.  Free agent and a player under contract in an option year are not the same. A Canadian and a Global have different roster requirements and CBA contract issues.

While Muamba's discrepancy wasn't as great, IIRC he went from $90K to $200K although he spent some time in the NFL before his 2nd CFL contract. High draft choices can get more than ELC's but the term is still 3 years.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Jesse on October 20, 2022, 11:29:29 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on October 20, 2022, 07:35:00 PM
The rules are technical. They aren't supposed to be iffy.  Free agent and a player under contract in an option year are not the same. A Canadian and a Global have different roster requirements and CBA contract issues.

While Muamba's discrepancy wasn't as great, IIRC he went from $90K to $200K although he spent some time in the NFL before his 2nd CFL contract. High draft choices can get more than ELC's but the term is still 3 years.

Sure, but we're not lawyers. I have zero plans to ever read the CBA. We're just chatting.

So I'm gonna go ahead and say player not getting a raise is in the same circle of a venn diagram - despite the circumstances being different.

Again - zero to do with the rules involved - I was just saying it "was the same issue" of a player perhaps not being able to get a raise.

All that said - I still have no idea if a team is able to renegotiate a draft picks contract. I had always assumed that Rourke would get a raise if the NFL wasn't an option next year. Never even considered the possibility they couldn't.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on October 21, 2022, 01:13:23 PM
Lions are optimistic that Rourke will be available for the last regular season game. Quick recovery if that's true. He's a difference maker in their chances to playoff success.

Obviously the Bombers are going to be the favourites for the rest of the year but Calgary and Lions can't be overlooked.

One injury here or a bad bounce there can end a teams' season.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Sec227 on October 21, 2022, 02:25:26 PM
Personally. I don't think he gets a true true NFL shot next year. He'd be best to give it one more year up year. And try and duplicate the success he started with this year, and build on it. If he goes lights out again, and his age. More NFL looks will come for sure
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on October 21, 2022, 03:15:43 PM
If Rourke is available for the last game, on the road, against the Bombers, he will not be in top physical shape, and will have a lot of rust to shake off.

I don't like:

A: BC chances to win even if he plays,

B: Rourke's chances to complete the game uninjured.  Not just re-injuring his foot, but also other injuries that come from decreased mobility, not being in 100% shape... he is vulnerable to non contact injuries as well as contact one.

Depending on whether there are playoff ramifications of the game, I can't see any benefit to putting him in.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on October 21, 2022, 03:18:41 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on October 21, 2022, 03:15:43 PM
If Rourke is available for the last game, on the road, against the Bombers, he will not be in top physical shape, and will have a lot of rust to shake off.

I don't like:

A: BC chances to win even if he plays,

B: Rourke's chances to complete the game uninjured.  Not just re-injuring his foot, but also other injuries that come from decreased mobility, not being in 100% shape... he is vulnerable to non contact injuries as well as contact one.

Depending on whether there are playoff ramifications of the game, I can't see any benefit to putting him in.

The doctors will decide if there is additional risk to playing a week sooner.

You don't shake off the rust for the WSF by not playing the last regular season game. Waiting one more week for the play offs doesn't get you in better physical shape either.

He can't just magically show up to play the WDF and be back to where he was before the injury.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: The Zipp on October 24, 2022, 11:51:19 PM
Farhan Lalji says Nathan Rourke has been medically cleared to play. Usually, when players are medically cleared to play, there is no reason for them not to play. Which means we can probably expect to see Mr. Rourke again this season.

From Bob Irving
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 25, 2022, 12:02:06 AM
Quote from: The Zipp on October 24, 2022, 11:51:19 PM
Farhan Lalji says Nathan Rourke has been medically cleared to play. Usually, when players are medically cleared to play, there is no reason for them not to play. Which means we can probably expect to see Mr. Rourke again this season.

From Bob Irving
crazy. I guess it was not that severe.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: ModAdmin on October 25, 2022, 05:02:20 AM
There is that possibility they could be rushing him back.  Everything I read about the injury he suffered is that it take significant time to heal.  Yes, we have to trust the medical staff but it there has to be at least some risk in bringing him back this quickly.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 25, 2022, 07:06:52 AM
Quote from: The Zipp on October 24, 2022, 11:51:19 PM
Farhan Lalji says Nathan Rourke has been medically cleared to play. Usually, when players are medically cleared to play, there is no reason for them not to play. Which means we can probably expect to see Mr. Rourke again this season.

Medical staff: "Does it still hurt, Nathan?"
Rourke: "No, it feels like a million bucks!" (while ignoring the pain screaming in his head)

Once you get to a certain level, the "cleared to play" basically boils down to subjective feeling.  Players who want to play will lie.

Funny, contrast the approaches to injuries between Rourke & Cody... Remember the Glute-Bowl??  Bet Rourke doesn't turn his injury into an excuse or crutch.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Waffler on October 25, 2022, 12:44:30 PM
BC made it clear from the beginning he will come back if medically cleared. I think the franchise is under a lot of pressure. This is the first time attendance has gone up in 10 years there. They are not going to let that momentum go. Add to that they have a legitimate shot of winning it all. Of course Rourke plays.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blue_gold_84 on October 25, 2022, 02:08:56 PM
Quote from: ModAdmin on October 25, 2022, 05:02:20 AM
There is that possibility they could be rushing him back.  Everything I read about the injury he suffered is that it take significant time to heal.  Yes, we have to trust the medical staff but it there has to be at least some risk in bringing him back this quickly.

I have to think he's not 100% and throwing a football at practice is pretty different from live-fire game action. I honestly wonder what the threshold is in terms of mobility for clearing a player from a medical standpoint. If he plays in the West Semifinal, the Lions' O-line will need to have its best game by far to keep him clean.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Ducky on October 25, 2022, 03:18:49 PM
I expect Rourke will be heavily taped inside his shoe.  With extra taping outside.

He will undoubtedly have some uncomfortable moments but it will really hurt after the game and he has the tape off.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 25, 2022, 08:39:31 PM
Quote from: Waffler on October 25, 2022, 12:44:30 PM
BC made it clear from the beginning he will come back if medically cleared. I think the franchise is under a lot of pressure. This is the first time attendance has gone up in 10 years there. They are not going to let that momentum go. Add to that they have a legitimate shot of winning it all. Of course Rourke plays.

Ya, think of the publicity and ticket sales for the WSF with Rourke vs sans-Rourke!  That alone is worth trotting him out.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 25, 2022, 09:35:31 PM
Welp, he is playing as reported by TSN Farnham. Interesting to see how he does here in the Peg when it is 0 degrees outside.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bomb squad on October 25, 2022, 11:35:17 PM
Count me in as hoping he does well. Even though it?s against us. It would be a big bump for the league going into the playoffs.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on October 26, 2022, 03:35:16 PM
Its going to be a question of mobility.  Re-injury is easy with that kind of issue, but he's months out of practice, and doesn't have the legs he had to start the year right now.

WBB are going to have their ears pinned back.  Nothing to lose in losing the game, so its going to be a pinata game with Rourke if he plays.

Not saying that the WBB will *try* to injure Rourke, just saying they aren't going to treat him like glass.  They are going to play full speed, and he better be able to keep upright.

A minor tweak and he is either compromised or doesn't play in the WDF, or maybe even the WF if they make it there.  That's not a bad thing for us.

If he gets a full quarter, I'd be surprised.  Don't change your bets based on him playing the full game.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Sec227 on October 26, 2022, 03:59:24 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on October 26, 2022, 03:35:16 PM
Its going to be a question of mobility.  Re-injury is easy with that kind of issue, but he's months out of practice, and doesn't have the legs he had to start the year right now.

WBB are going to have their ears pinned back.  Nothing to lose in losing the game, so its going to be a pinata game with Rourke if he plays.

Not saying that the WBB will *try* to injure Rourke, just saying they aren't going to treat him like glass.  They are going to play full speed, and he better be able to keep upright.

A minor tweak and he is either compromised or doesn't play in the WDF, or maybe even the WF if they make it there.  That's not a bad thing for us.

If he gets a full quarter, I'd be surprised.  Don't change your bets based on him playing the full game.

This is exactly what I was thinking. One or 2 hard sacks, and that could be it again for the year.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Horseman on October 26, 2022, 04:09:13 PM
Quote from: bomb squad on October 25, 2022, 11:35:17 PM
Count me in as hoping he does well. Even though it?s against us. It would be a big bump for the league going into the playoffs.

NOPE...not hoping he does well!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: The Zipp on October 26, 2022, 05:57:23 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on October 26, 2022, 03:35:16 PM
Its going to be a question of mobility.  Re-injury is easy with that kind of issue, but he's months out of practice, and doesn't have the legs he had to start the year right now.

WBB are going to have their ears pinned back.  Nothing to lose in losing the game, so its going to be a pinata game with Rourke if he plays.

Not saying that the WBB will *try* to injure Rourke, just saying they aren't going to treat him like glass.  They are going to play full speed, and he better be able to keep upright.

A minor tweak and he is either compromised or doesn't play in the WDF, or maybe even the WF if they make it there.  That's not a bad thing for us.

If he gets a full quarter, I'd be surprised.  Don't change your bets based on him playing the full game.

Bc will be thinking the same about ZC.  One bad sack and crack to his head and we are heading into the final with Dru. 
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bomb squad on October 26, 2022, 05:58:02 PM
Quote from: Horseman on October 26, 2022, 04:09:13 PM
NOPE...not hoping he does well!!!!!!!!!

Just for this game and the semi. Totally ok with crushing him in the final.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 27, 2022, 12:22:02 AM
Quote from: bomb squad on October 26, 2022, 05:58:02 PM
Just for this game and the semi. Totally ok with crushing him in the final.
If he even makes it that far?.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 27, 2022, 01:02:00 AM
Quote from: Horseman on October 26, 2022, 04:09:13 PM
NOPE...not hoping he does well!!!!!!!!!

Ya, I want him to suck.  Don't want BC getting all the momo and morale going into the playoffs!  That's the mojo we need, not them!

I'm leery of playing too rough or trying too hard to lay the wood on any BC player because then we set up a "oh you want to play hardball" retaliation scenario.  Best if both teams take it really easy and we'll just see which team makes more deep plays.

If I was either team I'd seriously go to the other team and say: look, it's the pro-bowl, have fun and no one gets hurt.  Tell them we "let" them win in front of their fans with no injuries, so let us win in front of our fans with no injuries.

We want BC to get beat up in the WSF vs CGY, not in this game.

If someone starts whacking hard in this game, I expect the pad-popping to get out of control.  I don't want to see that.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Horseman on October 27, 2022, 02:35:05 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 27, 2022, 01:02:00 AM
Ya, I want him to suck.  Don't want BC getting all the momo and morale going into the playoffs!  That's the mojo we need, not them!

I'm leery of playing too rough or trying too hard to lay the wood on any BC player because then we set up a "oh you want to play hardball" retaliation scenario.  Best if both teams take it really easy and we'll just see which team makes more deep plays.

If I was either team I'd seriously go to the other team and say: look, it's the pro-bowl, have fun and no one gets hurt.  Tell them we "let" them win in front of their fans with no injuries, so let us win in front of our fans with no injuries.

We want BC to get beat up in the WSF vs CGY, not in this game.

If someone starts whacking hard in this game, I expect the pad-popping to get out of control.  I don't want to see that.


No way, No how, MOS will tell the team to go out and play with half an effort. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME, period, you cannot play any other way than full speed, as soon as you play to soft, THAT is when injuries will happen. Besides MOS and the players only know one way to play and that is hard nosed football and they would expect the same from BC.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Waffler on October 27, 2022, 03:03:51 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 27, 2022, 01:02:00 AM
We want BC to get beat up in the WSF vs CGY, not in this game.

I don't want to beat teams because someone got hurt. We should be able to beat the best if we want to stay champs. Let's do that.  The semi should be rough enough anyway. That's why you want first. I don't care a whit if we win this one or not.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 27, 2022, 10:46:23 PM
Quote from: Waffler on October 27, 2022, 03:03:51 PM
I don't want to beat teams because someone got hurt. We should be able to beat the best if we want to stay champs. Let's do that.  The semi should be rough enough anyway. That's why you want first. I don't a whit if we win this one or not.

But that's one of the main perks for winning #1 in division: the other 2 teams have to beat each other up in a SF before they reach you.  It's just a fact.

I don't wish injury on any player or team specifically, but am more than happy to watch them ding each other up right before they face us.  We've had to do it before, like in 2019 with Strevie getting his foot broken in the WSF.

We are injury-hampered this season, even going into the playoffs.  If the football gods even it out a bit for either the Lions/Stamps, I'm ok with that.  We also have to cross our fingers that in our remaining 3 games we can stay injury free.

We won the '21 GC against a team that lost their starting QB in the 1st Q... did that win still not make you happy?
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Waffler on October 27, 2022, 11:18:46 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 27, 2022, 10:46:23 PM

We won the '21 GC against a team that lost their starting QB in the 1st Q... did that win still not make you happy?


Of course I was happy! They went into the big game healthy at QB though and deeper than us.  Both our #1's started. Seems fair to me.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bomb squad on October 29, 2022, 05:52:12 PM
Opinions on Roarkes performance last night? I didn't know what to expect, but I thought he looked quite tentative. Just didn't look comfortable physically or mentally. I was thinking they probably should have left him in a couple more series if they really are serious about starting him next week. If I'm Campbell, I don't think I do start him next week.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Jesse on October 29, 2022, 07:21:38 PM
Quote from: bomb squad on October 29, 2022, 05:52:12 PM
Opinions on Roarkes performance last night? I didn't know what to expect, but I thought he looked quite tentative. Just didn't look comfortable physically or mentally. I was thinking they probably should have left him in a couple more series if they really are serious about starting him next week. If I'm Campbell, I don't think I do start him next week.

Looked bad and clearly isn?t healthy.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 29, 2022, 07:23:47 PM
He looked stiff and immobile to me. Nice guy though. Good Canadian kid just like ol Jake Fatboy Thomas.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Waffler on October 29, 2022, 09:23:46 PM
Too much being made about elevating his foot. It's precautionary against swelling. He is not 100% but I think healthy enough to be their best option right now. Plenty of guys are playing hurt, our team too. There is no tomorrow.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on October 29, 2022, 09:54:37 PM
Quote from: bomb squad on October 29, 2022, 05:52:12 PM
Opinions on Roarkes performance last night? I didn't know what to expect, but I thought he looked quite tentative. Just didn't look comfortable physically or mentally. I was thinking they probably should have left him in a couple more series if they really are serious about starting him next week. If I'm Campbell, I don't think I do start him next week.

Lions have no chance of winning with Adams so Rourke will start. Unless his ankle swells up like a watermelon after playing briefly last night.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 29, 2022, 11:05:57 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on October 29, 2022, 09:54:37 PM
Lions have no chance of winning with Adams so Rourke will start. Unless his ankle swells up like a watermelon after playing briefly last night.
yup Vag just does not have the football IQ. He does not see the field well to me and gets happy feet to early.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 30, 2022, 12:21:25 AM
Rourke's foot looked ok.   I was watching his movement with binocs.  He was mobile, though maybe not as much as we are used to.  His arm & head were a bit off, though.

Bomb squad is right: I thought they should have left him in a lot more.  Tons of clear rust.  Needed to work it out.  What's he going to do, work it out in the WSF??  CGY will eat him alive.  Unless he's faking so CGY under-prepares... guess he could be thinking 3 moves ahead.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Waffler on October 30, 2022, 12:18:02 PM
I'm thinking it was more a test of the ankle than anything else. So from that perspective it was a success. But, yes he was rusty. Still thinking it''s a last play winner in the semi.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TBURGESS on October 30, 2022, 02:19:03 PM
Rourke looked rusty as expected.

The two deep balls were both short, causing the receiver to slow down & allowing the DB to catch up to make the plays. He threw an easy out into the ground towards the end of his time on the field.

He wasn't moving as well as he used to either. Pre injury, he'd have easily outrun our DL & avoided the fumble.

I didn't see tentative. He was finding the right receiver on time, but he wasn't on target enough to be truly effective.


Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: J5V on October 30, 2022, 08:55:38 PM
Quote from: TBURGESS on October 30, 2022, 02:19:03 PM
Rourke looked rusty as expected.

The two deep balls were both short, causing the receiver to slow down & allowing the DB to catch up to make the plays. He threw an easy out into the ground towards the end of his time on the field.

He wasn't moving as well as he used to either. Pre injury, he'd have easily outrun our DL & avoided the fumble.

I didn't see tentative. He was finding the right receiver on time, but he wasn't on target enough to be truly effective.

Good observations but I don't know that I'd describe it as rust. That foot was busted up bad and is full of screws, pins, and a plate. No way he can play anywhere near 100% on that bad wheel. We touched him early and often and he was hurried the whole time he was in there. If he starts against Calgary they will go after him hard and he stands a very real chance of getting killed back there. Campbell is an idiot if he plays Rourke against Calgary. At least Adams is mobile and can get you something with his feet. 
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 30, 2022, 09:07:11 PM
Quote from: J5V on October 30, 2022, 08:55:38 PM
If he starts against Calgary they will go after him hard and he stands a very real chance of getting killed back there. Campbell is an idiot if he plays Rourke against Calgary. At least Adams is mobile and can get you something with his feet. 

But Rourke's reads and wind-up speed and arm strength and accuracy are so much better.  So the logical choice is to play Rourke but make him a pocket passer.  Play him like Ricky Ray or BLM.  They have a great OL with the 3 IMP advantage.  Tell him to just stay put and make his reads and great passes.  If no one is open, throw it away instead of scramble.  Do a couple of bootlegs to mix things up, but throw it away if any heat follows.

The big mistake would be to play Rourke like they played week 1 Rourke.  That is what will get him killed.  I'm not sure BC (or Rourke) is smart enough to figure this out.  But Campbell is no dummy, so maybe.

If they play VAJ for any length of time they can kiss the WSF goodbye.  Even worse, they won't grind down CGY before we have to face them.  I want a very close, rough game to bruise up both teams before the WDF.  If VAJ plays more than 2 quarters, it's going to be 45 to 10.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bluengold204 on October 30, 2022, 09:50:37 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 30, 2022, 09:07:11 PM
But Rourke's reads and wind-up speed and arm strength and accuracy are so much better.  So the logical choice is to play Rourke but make him a pocket passer.  Play him like Ricky Ray or BLM.  They have a great OL with the 3 IMP advantage.  Tell him to just stay put and make his reads and great passes.  If no one is open, throw it away instead of scramble.  Do a couple of bootlegs to mix things up, but throw it away if any heat follows.

The big mistake would be to play Rourke like they played week 1 Rourke.  That is what will get him killed.  I'm not sure BC (or Rourke) is smart enough to figure this out.  But Campbell is no dummy, so maybe.

If they play VAJ for any length of time they can kiss the WSF goodbye.  Even worse, they won't grind down CGY before we have to face them.  I want a very close, rough game to bruise up both teams before the WDF.  If VAJ plays more than 2 quarters, it's going to be 45 to 10.


They have beaten Calgary with VAJ not sure why you think it?s a slam dunk for Calgary
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on October 31, 2022, 01:28:01 AM
Calgary is definitely improving as every week goes by, but they played a dreadful Rider team, so they looked extra good last week, and BC played us, and it was Rourke's first reps in months. I don't think Rourke will be as sharp as he needs to be to beat the Stamps, and not sure if Burnham is going to be back in the lineup, but beating them isn't out of the question. Stamps have Carey, who is deadly as a runner, but Butler is no slouch either. It s going to be closer than most think
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 31, 2022, 01:38:39 AM
Quote from: dd on October 31, 2022, 01:28:01 AM
Calgary is definitely improving as every week goes by, but they played a dreadful Rider team, so they looked extra good last week, and BC played us, and it was Rourke's first reps in months. I don't think Rourke will be as sharp as he needs to be to beat the Stamps, and not sure if Burnham is going to be back in the lineup, but beating them isn't out of the question. Stamps have Carey, who is deadly as a runner, but Butler is no slouch either. It s going to be closer than most think
We can agree here.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: The Zipp on November 15, 2022, 04:20:36 PM
I don't Rourke has punched his golden ticket to the NFL...his showing in the playoffs wasn't stellar and that last drive where they chewed a bunch of clock cause he couldn't hear isn't going to show well.

If he wants to be a PR QB then there could be a spot for him if that is what he wants. 
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 15, 2022, 04:32:19 PM
Quote from: The Zipp on November 15, 2022, 04:20:36 PM
I don't Rourke has punched his golden ticket to the NFL...his showing in the playoffs wasn't stellar and that last drive where they chewed a bunch of clock cause he couldn't hear isn't going to show well.

If he wants to be a PR QB then there could be a spot for him if that is what he wants. 
I agree he has not shown enough. He will be back in BC.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on November 15, 2022, 04:52:50 PM
I don't think he could get tryouts south of the border, especially if his brother does well (by association).

Will he stick?  Maybe, maybe not.  Depends on his health at the time of the tryouts.

If he returns to BC for the final year of his ELC, you can bet it will be re-worked.

I'm all for showing emotion, but I'm sorry if crying in Burnham's arms dropped him a peg on my esteem list.  Don't want him going off the end like MBT when he doesn't get a call, but he seems a bit soft to me.  Might make his teammates protect him more... like they would a little sister... no offense to little sisters or protective big brothers, but that seems to me more the dynamic...and not a great one for a football team. 

No doubting his talent, and that his team has a reason to rally behind him.  Just wish he wasn't so weepy...  not my image of a football QB...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Jesse on November 15, 2022, 05:17:02 PM
Quote from: The Zipp on November 15, 2022, 04:20:36 PM
I don't Rourke has punched his golden ticket to the NFL...his showing in the playoffs wasn't stellar and that last drive where they chewed a bunch of clock cause he couldn't hear isn't going to show well.

If he wants to be a PR QB then there could be a spot for him if that is what he wants. 

Well, he's already got work outs scheduled for next week, so he did enough to create the interest.

Now he just has to perform.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blue_gold_84 on November 15, 2022, 05:37:52 PM
Quote from: Jesse on November 15, 2022, 05:17:02 PM
Well, he's already got work outs scheduled for next week, so he did enough to create the interest.

Now he just has to perform.

He'll land a PR spot down there at the very least. He's a raw talent with a ton of upside.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on November 15, 2022, 05:39:11 PM
Quote from: Jesse on November 15, 2022, 05:17:02 PM
Well, he's already got work outs scheduled for next week, so he did enough to create the interest.

Now he just has to perform.

Tough call. He may get some offers but unless he gets some signing bonus, it's just a chance in TC. Probability would look at a PR spot.

I wish him well but IMO he'd be better off with one more season in the CFL.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bomb squad on November 15, 2022, 05:59:36 PM
He?s got beautiful throwing mechanics, good zip, accuracy, mobility when healthy, and he?s young. Although he has shown he?s already good, we can also see he has plenty of room to grow. The question is how much? He?s got some stuff going for him right now. Lots of NFL teams are still searching for that star qb that they all need to be competitive. I don?t think he has anything to lose by trying out. But I think a team will have to show him some tangible vested interest for him to sign.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: J5V on November 15, 2022, 06:22:45 PM
He's good but is he NFL good? Not too sure about that.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Pigskin on November 15, 2022, 06:24:52 PM
Well, he is a lot better than CS was in his second year. CS has been down south for three years now.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: the paw on November 15, 2022, 06:26:07 PM
Quote from: bomb squad on November 15, 2022, 05:59:36 PM
He?s got beautiful throwing mechanics, good zip, accuracy, mobility when healthy, and he?s young. Although he has shown he?s already good, we can also see he has plenty of room to grow. The question is how much? He?s got some stuff going for him right now. Lots of NFL teams are still searching for that star qb that they all need to be competitive. I don?t think he has anything to lose by trying out. But I think a team will have to show him some tangible vested interest for him to sign.

He's scheduled to make $80k in the CFL next year, so he had absolutely nothing to loose by taking any NFL offer.  Even a PR spot would pay him more.  If it doesn't pan out, he will still have the leverage to come back and get a $400k contract in the CFL.

He won't improve his NFL interest by coming back for another year either.  Half a season was plenty to show consistency and his complete skill set.  Any NFL team that would be interested has enough data, and would prefer to develop him in their program rather than letting him gain more CFL experience.

The only hesitation might be a medical one, in terms of teams wanting to see if the foot is right.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on November 15, 2022, 07:02:34 PM
Farhan Lalji@FarhanLaljiTSN
Rourke & his reps wanted to take advantage of the @CFL
?s earlier window to begin @NFL
tryouts so that they can spread the workouts out more. The window opens Nov 21 & he has his first 2 teams scheduled for 21-22. More than 2 dozen teams have inquired. @CFLonTSN
?1/2

Farhan Lalji@FarhanLaljiTSN

@FarhanLaljiTSN
2/2 Rourke?s foot is healthy enough for him to throw. He won?t be expected to run a 40 or those type of drills. The situation he?s looking for is a realistic opportunity to compete for a #2 job & healthy guarantee of 1st year salary. Hope to have a NFL/CFL decision made by Jan
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bomb squad on November 15, 2022, 07:12:24 PM
Quote from: J5V on November 15, 2022, 06:22:45 PM
He's good but is he NFL good? Not too sure about that.

I think so. 20 years ago, his size may have been an issue, but that's changed (about time too). Otherwise, all things considered, yes, he is NFL good. You don't have to be a beast like Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson to be successful in the NFL. Look at guys like Mahomes and Wilson. Heinike has probably earned himself the starting job in Washington. Could Rourke be as good or better than him? You bet he could be.  
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on November 16, 2022, 12:45:39 AM
Quote from: theaardvark on November 15, 2022, 07:02:34 PM
Farhan Lalji@FarhanLaljiTSN
Rourke & his reps wanted to take advantage of the @CFL
?s earlier window to begin @NFL
tryouts so that they can spread the workouts out more. The window opens Nov 21 & he has his first 2 teams scheduled for 21-22. More than 2 dozen teams have inquired. @CFLonTSN
?1/2

Farhan Lalji@FarhanLaljiTSN

@FarhanLaljiTSN
2/2 Rourke?s foot is healthy enough for him to throw. He won?t be expected to run a 40 or those type of drills. The situation he?s looking for is a realistic opportunity to compete for a #2 job & healthy guarantee of 1st year salary. Hope to have a NFL/CFL decision made by Jan
Wow, good for him. I hope he catches on with some team
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: J5V on November 16, 2022, 01:14:57 AM
Quote from: Pigskin on November 15, 2022, 06:24:52 PM
Well, he is a lot better than CS was in his second year. CS has been down south for three years now.

Chris is a man. I have a hard time imagining Streveler sobbing about anything.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on November 16, 2022, 01:47:48 AM
Quote from: J5V on November 16, 2022, 01:14:57 AM
Chris is a man. I have a hard time imagining Streveler sobbing about anything.
Ya, that was ugly. Rourke has been thrust into the TSN spotlight because he?s Canadian and no doubt he loves the camera, but nobody is going to give a roaring rip about him and his passport down south. He better man up and quick
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on November 16, 2022, 05:36:23 AM
Quote from: Pigskin on November 15, 2022, 06:24:52 PM
Well, he is a lot better than CS was in his second year. CS has been down south for three years now.

The Strevie thing always did puzzle me.  I have no idea how he ever got a shot, and how he's survived down there.  But, unlike Rourke, Strevie was never designed to be a starter there.  I guess he found a nice niche.

Quote from: the paw on November 15, 2022, 06:26:07 PM
He won't improve his NFL interest by coming back for another year either.  Half a season was plenty to show consistency and his complete skill set.  Any NFL team that would be interested has enough data, and would prefer to develop him in their program rather than letting him gain more CFL experience.

But the NFL waited for 2 full seasons of on-off starts before they came to Strevie's door.  Why would they attack Rourke earlier than Strevie?  Because they think Rourke might be a legit NFL QB??

Here's the thing, guys: Hall destroyed Rourke in both "meaningful" games.  You don't think legit NFL players and DCs won't do the same?  Rourke looked mediocre at best, crappy at worst, in the WDF.  People still only have half a real season of film on him.  You don't think they'll learn his weaknesses soon enough?  And keep in mind Rourke looked unstoppable when he was surrounded by the best WR corps in the league...

I agree on so many fronts regarding Rourke's abilities.  But he's still a kid, still can't make the most consistent reads, still can get tricked by good DCs.

If the NFL bites on him, does this indicate that even the NFL is hard up for quality QBs for every team?
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blue_or_die on November 16, 2022, 10:28:03 AM
Quote from: dd on November 16, 2022, 01:47:48 AM
Ya, that was ugly. Rourke has been thrust into the TSN spotlight because he?s Canadian and no doubt he loves the camera, but nobody is going to give a roaring rip about him and his passport down south. He better man up and quick

You are such a geezer.

And yeah it?s a personal attack, but you deserve it.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: ichabod_crane on November 16, 2022, 11:26:57 AM
It will all depend if he gets a legitimate shot at the second stringer job. I am pretty sure BC would renegotiate his contract to at least 500k. Bouncing around nfl practice rosters won?t quite match that plus getting little reps. Long term he may be better off seasoning another year or two. Best of luck to him in any case.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: BlueInCgy on November 16, 2022, 01:06:54 PM
The amount of people harping on Rourke?s display of emotion is disappointing.  First off, he?s a kid who feels like he let his team down.  That certainly could be overwhelming.  And is he the first guy who cried after losing a championship?  Hardly.  Would it be better if he MBT?d Campbell and have his coordinators pull him away?  Or maybe go all Maas on some gear?  My point being is it?s a high emotion high stress situation and people are going to react.  It?s human nature.

I can just see the conversation now.  ?Remember that season where Rourke was on pace to decimate every QB stat known to man.?  ?You mean that guy that cried after losing the WDF.  He?s trash, hard pass.?
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on November 16, 2022, 01:22:10 PM
He is young and talented, shown he can compete at a high level, and regardless how he looked in the WF he put up eye watering stats over his shortened season. Apparently, he has had 2 dozen teams reach out to his camp and is starting visits on the first available window. I would think it would be very naive and biased to think he doesn't have a very, very solid chance to get some serious looks and offers. I wish him the best, I hope he gets a good payday and world class coaching.

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: the paw on November 16, 2022, 01:57:08 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on November 16, 2022, 05:36:23 AM
The Strevie thing always did puzzle me.  I have no idea how he ever got a shot, and how he's survived down there.  But, unlike Rourke, Strevie was never designed to be a starter there.  I guess he found a nice niche.

But the NFL waited for 2 full seasons of on-off starts before they came to Strevie's door.  Why would they attack Rourke earlier than Strevie?  Because they think Rourke might be a legit NFL QB??

Here's the thing, guys: Hall destroyed Rourke in both "meaningful" games.  You don't think legit NFL players and DCs won't do the same?  Rourke looked mediocre at best, crappy at worst, in the WDF.  People still only have half a real season of film on him.  You don't think they'll learn his weaknesses soon enough?  And keep in mind Rourke looked unstoppable when he was surrounded by the best WR corps in the league...

I agree on so many fronts regarding Rourke's abilities.  But he's still a kid, still can't make the most consistent reads, still can get tricked by good DCs.

If the NFL bites on him, does this indicate that even the NFL is hard up for quality QBs for every team?


Rourke put up essentially comparable numbers of attempts and completions in his 1.5 years as Streveler did in two full seasons.  So the data for evaluation is comparable.  Moreover, they are different animals.  Streveler is a running QB whom you hope can make the throws.  Rourke can make all the throws, and can also run.  Not as much of a power runner in short yardage, but he can gallop too.

The fact that Rourke didn?t have a perfect season does not detract from his accomplishments.  His completion percentage was amazing, and it wasn?t built on short screens.  He makes quick reads and gets the ball out FAST, with accuracy.  That?s the raw material that NFL QB coaches want to work with.

Yes, he had success with some of the best receivers in the CFL.  All the receivers he will be throwing to in the NFL will be better.  I love watching Burnham, Rhymes and Whitehead, but none of them stuck in the NFL.  So that?s a specious argument.

At the end of the day two thirds of NFL teams are interested.  The last Canadian who generated that kind of interest was a medical student offensive lineman who is currently sporting a Super Bowl ring.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Pigskin on November 16, 2022, 02:02:01 PM
Quote from: BlueInCgy on November 16, 2022, 01:06:54 PM
The amount of people harping on Rourke?s display of emotion is disappointing.  First off, he?s a kid who feels like he let his team down.  That certainly could be overwhelming.  And is he the first guy who cried after losing a championship?  Hardly.  Would it be better if he MBT?d Campbell and have his coordinators pull him away?  Or maybe go all Maas on some gear?  My point being is it?s a high emotion high stress situation and people are going to react.  It?s human nature.

I can just see the conversation now.  ?Remember that season where Rourke was on pace to decimate every QB stat known to man.?  ?You mean that guy that cried after losing the WDF.  He?s trash, hard pass.?

Agree totally. I can't believe people are trashing NR12 for showing emotion. Many athletes have shown that kind of emotion after losing a championship.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: PurpleReign on November 16, 2022, 02:12:58 PM
Rourke has interest from several teams in the NFL at the moment and will be showcasing his talent for them. His return to the Lions is in doubt.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Horseman on November 16, 2022, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: BlueInCgy on November 16, 2022, 01:06:54 PM
The amount of people harping on Rourke?s display of emotion is disappointing.  First off, he?s a kid who feels like he let his team down.  That certainly could be overwhelming.  And is he the first guy who cried after losing a championship?  Hardly.  Would it be better if he MBT?d Campbell and have his coordinators pull him away?  Or maybe go all Maas on some gear?  My point being is it?s a high emotion high stress situation and people are going to react.  It?s human nature.

I can just see the conversation now.  ?Remember that season where Rourke was on pace to decimate every QB stat known to man.?  ?You mean that guy that cried after losing the WDF.  He?s trash, hard pass.?

I personally have no problem with Rourke showing his emotions, it shows he cares and badly wants to win. I would rather have a guy like this on my team as opposed to someone who doesn't seem to care.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on November 16, 2022, 03:25:45 PM
Quote from: Horseman on November 16, 2022, 02:58:21 PM
I personally have no problem with Rourke showing his emotions, it shows he cares and badly wants to win. I would rather have a guy like this on my team as opposed to someone who doesn't seem to care.

You can show emotions without blubbering... I'd prefer PO's rather than weeping.  Not MBT PO'd, but upset.

I'm not sure how many other QB's we'd tolerate weeping openly...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Waffler on November 16, 2022, 03:26:30 PM
I think he stayed out to feel what it is like to win the west. Campbell was talking to him the whole time. Motivation for the future, no matter how much it hurt in the moment.  
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on November 16, 2022, 03:26:50 PM
I won't be surprised if Rourke gets an NFL offer. The catch is about signing bonus or guaranteed money of some sort. He needs to choose a team that gives him the best shot of not ending up riding the PR bench.



Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bomb squad on November 16, 2022, 03:32:17 PM
The crying: Let's not forget the camera and attention is on this guy constantly. I'm not sure any other player has faced nearly as much scrutiny in recent times. With that and his youth, I'm giving him a pass. I'm sure he's a little embarrassed about it himself after the fact. Let's move on.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blue_or_die on November 16, 2022, 03:43:00 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on November 16, 2022, 03:25:45 PM
You can show emotions without blubbering... I'd prefer PO's rather than weeping.  Not MBT PO'd, but upset.

I'm not sure how many other QB's we'd tolerate weeping openly...

If Collaros shed a tear, I would hope MOS would kick him to the curb immediately. We don't need a bunch of babies on our team, right
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Pete on November 16, 2022, 03:43:17 PM
I don't think Rourke accepts a practice roster spot, the maximum he would get I believe is around $350k . If I was BC I would offer him 3 yrs at $600k ..He's that important to their franchise and in fact the CFL

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on November 16, 2022, 03:55:14 PM
Quote from: Pete on November 16, 2022, 03:43:17 PM
I don't think Rourke accepts a practice roster spot, the maximum he would get I believe is around $350k . If I was BC I would offer him 3 yrs at $600k ..He's that important to their franchise and in fact the CFL



Players don't know whether they've made the roster until final cut down day. At that point he'll have missed the 1st 3rd of the CFL season. The rule on what players might get offered on an NFL PR is not something I know about. Technically any player can be one injury from being activated to game day roster.

There is still some question whether the CBA allows a Canadian player on an ELC to sign an extension etc. Assuming that can be done, I think $600K is excessive and any new contract would have progressive increased over the duration.

He's shown great talent but does he deserve to be the highest paid player in the league after 1/2 a season?

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 16, 2022, 04:10:05 PM
Quote from: Pete on November 16, 2022, 03:43:17 PM
I don't think Rourke accepts a practice roster spot, the maximum he would get I believe is around $350k . If I was BC I would offer him 3 yrs at $600k ..He's that important to their franchise and in fact the CFL

He's just stepped on the NFL Merry-go-round and he won't be coming back anytime soon, with so many interested teams.  He's a young unencumbered guy who lives and breaths football on another level, he's not going to short-change his potential based on on a limited financial offer when he sees no ceiling in sight, he has no reason not to bet all in on himself.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on November 16, 2022, 04:21:06 PM
20 teams interested, and if you've seen any NFL this year, QB talent is thin...

Rourke has a few tools that lend themselves to NFL ball.  If he can get the reads quick, his release and arm strength is enough to get him a leit roster spot. one hit from starting.

We may see him back eventually, but if I am BC, I'm not factoring him into 2023 with any certainty.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 16, 2022, 04:29:59 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on November 16, 2022, 04:21:06 PM
20 teams interested, and if you've seen any NFL this year, QB talent is thin...

Rourke has a few tools that lend themselves to NFL ball.  If he can get the reads quick, his release and arm strength is enough to get him a leit roster spot. one hit from starting.

We may see him back eventually, but if I am BC, I'm not factoring him into 2023 with any certainty.

If the Lions can't sign BLM as an instant fix they better get after Dane Evans lickity-split, he has the physical tools to make it work, but requires mental repairs to get the job done.  Plenty of shrinks available on the West Coast.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Waffler on November 16, 2022, 04:37:45 PM
He's getting an NFL offer. The only question is what the best offer will be.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: ModAdmin on November 16, 2022, 04:53:03 PM
Whether it is tears, frustration, anger, joy or disappointment, it is emotion.  Every player has it and reacts in their own way to different situations.  If you don't have it you are indifferent and shouldn't be in competitive sports.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Jesse on November 16, 2022, 04:53:11 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on November 16, 2022, 03:25:45 PM
You can show emotions without blubbering... I'd prefer PO's rather than weeping.  Not MBT PO'd, but upset.

I'm not sure how many other QB's we'd tolerate weeping openly...

He can express his emotions however he pleases and it's not up to us to tolerate or not.

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Pigskin on November 16, 2022, 05:30:04 PM
Quote from: ModAdmin on November 16, 2022, 04:53:03 PM
Whether it is tears, frustration, anger, joy or disappointment, it is emotion.  Every player has it and reacts in their own way to different situations.  If you don't have it you are indifferent and shouldn't be in competitive sports.

Nice I like it. Well said Mod.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TBURGESS on November 16, 2022, 05:46:06 PM
I don't see Rourke back in the CFL next year. He's on his first contract after being drafted which limits the money that BC can give him as per the CBA.

Booch says $280K USD for PR, which is more than Rourke can get from the Lions.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: the paw on November 16, 2022, 05:58:33 PM
Quote from: TBURGESS on November 16, 2022, 05:46:06 PM
I don't see Rourke back in the CFL next year. He's on his first contract after being drafted which limits the money that BC can give him as per the CBA.

Booch says $280K USD for PR, which is more than Rourke can get from the Lions.

For a player with less than 2 seasons, the minimum is $207,000 which would apply to Rourke.

A player with 2 seasons or more gets the equivalent of at least $277k.

https://www.marca.com/en/nfl/2022/09/03/63131ada268e3e09408b45cb.html
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blue_gold_84 on November 16, 2022, 06:00:18 PM
Quote from: blue_or_die on November 16, 2022, 03:43:00 PM
If Collaros shed a tear, I would hope MOS would kick him to the curb immediately. We don't need a bunch of babies on our team, right

Some short memories here. Richie Hall wept after the Bombers ended the drought three years ago and I can't recall anyone being so harsh about that display of emotions.

I guess it's different when it's one's own team - and thus, easier to be callous.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 16, 2022, 08:02:28 PM
It sounds like Rourke wants to be on a roster and won't settle for the NFL P.R., so the Lions still have hope of bringing him back.

Straight from the horse's mouth.

https://www.bclions.com/2022/11/15/season-wrap-up-nathan-rourke/
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on November 16, 2022, 09:48:23 PM
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on November 16, 2022, 06:00:18 PM
Some short memories here. Richie Hall wept after the Bombers ended the drought three years ago and I can't recall anyone being so harsh about that display of emotions.

I guess it's different when it's one's own team - and thus, easier to be callous.

Tears of joy are one thing... Rourke was not weeping for joy...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 16, 2022, 10:31:48 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on November 16, 2022, 09:48:23 PM
Tears of joy are one thing... Rourke was not weeping for joy...

He also wasn't crying over his own loss, he was disappointed he let vets. like Burnham down, thinking they may never get another chance to play in a G.C.. Listen to the interview before you judge.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Pigskin on November 16, 2022, 10:54:16 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on November 16, 2022, 09:48:23 PM
Tears of joy are one thing... Rourke was not weeping for joy...

And this is one of the problems we have in the world right now. We still have a few Neanderthals wondering around. 
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: J5V on November 16, 2022, 11:24:03 PM
When I was a kid we were taught that men/boys don't cry.  Women/girls cry. I realize times have changed.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on November 16, 2022, 11:53:14 PM
Quote from: BlueInCgy on November 16, 2022, 01:06:54 PM
The amount of people harping on Rourke?s display of emotion is disappointing.  First off, he?s a kid who feels like he let his team down.

Coach Orlando was crying in the 4th Q -- while the game was still on -- in the 2019 GC.  And crying big time afterwards in his speeches and pressers.  No one blasted him for that.  I noted it and poked fun at him, but not in a "you're accomplishments don't count" way, more in a "nya nya you tried to beat the Bombers" way.

I think very few people doubt that Coach O after the '19 GC loss was still a great coach, just as few people right now doubt that Rourke will be a great QB.

I'm fine with his crying.  I'm also fine with poking some fun at him for failing to beat our D.  Doesn't have to be either/or.  He's certainly not less of a man because he couldn't hold it in.

Quote from: Waffler on November 16, 2022, 03:26:30 PM
I think he stayed out to feel what it is like to win the west. Campbell was talking to him the whole time. Motivation for the future, no matter how much it hurt in the moment.  

Ya, he stayed out pretty long, as far as these things go.  That takes more courage than tucking tail and scampering off the field immediately like most losers do.

Hey, I remember AH staying out or coming back out onto the field after the '18 WDF loss in CGY and sitting on the bench alone with his head hanging down.  I'm pretty sure he was crying, too.  Never televised, but I was there live watching him right in front of me, this is after most of the Blue fans had left.  Maybe staying out and feeling more of the pain is the best way to motivate yourself for the future.  Certainly worked on AH: just look at the following year!
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on November 16, 2022, 11:57:25 PM
Quote from: the paw on November 16, 2022, 01:57:08 PM
Rourke put up essentially comparable numbers of attempts and completions in his 1.5 years as Streveler did in two full seasons.  So the data for evaluation is comparable.  Moreover, they are different animals.  Streveler is a running QB whom you hope can make the throws.  Rourke can make all the throws, and can also run.  Not as much of a power runner in short yardage, but he can gallop too.

But that was my whole point.  Strevie got his NFL looks precisely because he wasn't an every-down passer.  He fit a niche a couple of teams wanted, to recreate his WPG role.

Rourke will be looked at in the NFL in the same way any "normal" QB would.  That is a far higher bar to face than Strevie did!  Rourke has to look like the next Rodgers or Brady to win a spot.  Not the next <insert limited package running QB name here>.

Quote from: theaardvark on November 16, 2022, 04:21:06 PM
20 teams interested, and if you've seen any NFL this year, QB talent is thin...

THIS will be the deciding factor.  If NFL is as hard up for QB talent as the CFL is, the Rourke has a great shot.  If it was a normal NFL decade with gobs of promising QBs, then maybe not so much.

My question now is: How did the NFL scouts miss on Rourke at all? (i.e. 1-2 years ago)  None of this was apparent from his college ball or combine results??  BC clearly saw something.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 17, 2022, 12:25:08 AM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on November 16, 2022, 11:57:25 PM
But that was my whole point.  Strevie got his NFL looks precisely because he wasn't an every-down passer.  He fit a niche a couple of teams wanted, to recreate his WPG role.

Rourke will be looked at in the NFL in the same way any "normal" QB would.  That is a far higher bar to face than Strevie did!  Rourke has to look like the next Rodgers or Brady to win a spot.  Not the next <insert limited package running QB name here>.

THIS will be the deciding factor.  If NFL is as hard up for QB talent as the CFL is, the Rourke has a great shot.  If it was a normal NFL decade with gobs of promising QBs, then maybe not so much.

My question now is: How did the NFL scouts miss on Rourke at all? (i.e. 1-2 years ago)  None of this was apparent from his college ball or combine results??  BC clearly saw something.


No NFL team was willing to give Rourke a shot as a QB, they only wanted him if he would transition to another position.  Just because they're rich doesn't mean they're smart.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 17, 2022, 12:44:04 AM
Quote from: J5V on November 16, 2022, 11:24:03 PM
When I was a kid we were taught that men/boys don't cry.  Women/girls cry. I realize times have changed.
lol
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: J5V on November 17, 2022, 01:03:21 AM
Quote from: J5V
When I was a kid we were taught that men/boys don't cry.  Women/girls cry. I realize times have changed.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on November 17, 2022, 12:44:04 AM
lol
Yes, men seem to cry more than women now.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on November 17, 2022, 02:53:54 AM
So the guy has 2 NFL teams working him out in a week, more than 2 dozen others interested and he's crying because the team he's leaving to.pursue his nfl dream lost?!? Seems overly dramatic and somewhat superficial/fake to me. If you really cares about the Lions players, don't go to.the nfl and stay there and try and win a championship, leaving and crying because you lost and 'care so much' seems hypocritical to me.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: ModAdmin on November 17, 2022, 05:38:12 AM
Quote from: dd on November 17, 2022, 02:53:54 AM
So the guy has 2 NFL teams working him out in a week, more than 2 dozen others interested and he's crying because the team he's leaving to.pursue his nfl dream lost?!? Seems overly dramatic and somewhat superficial/fake to me. If you really cares about the Lions players, don't go to.the nfl and stay there and try and win a championship, leaving and crying because you lost and 'care so much' seems hypocritical to me.

If you put your heart and soul into helping the Lions get to the Grey Cup and miss out in the Western Final like Rourke did, you think his emotion is over dramatic and somewhat fake?  I think you have little understanding of compassion.  You don't know the guy and you suggest he's superficial and fake?  That says a lot about you, not him.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Sec223 on November 17, 2022, 10:32:36 AM
Almost time to shut down this topic ? Bigger things to discuss. Focus people focus LOL
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 17, 2022, 10:53:41 AM
Quote from: Sec223 on November 17, 2022, 10:32:36 AM
Almost time to shut down this topic ? Bigger things to discuss. Focus people focus LOL
I agree lets move on. Sick of hearing about the guy frankly.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Jesse on November 17, 2022, 12:13:08 PM
Quote from: Sec223 on November 17, 2022, 10:32:36 AM
Almost time to shut down this topic ? Bigger things to discuss. Focus people focus LOL

Jerks need to be called out and told they're wrong.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: CrazyCanuck89 on November 17, 2022, 01:47:24 PM
People make it seem like Rourke is the first football player to ever cry after a loss.  Go back and watch any playoff game in the NFL, CFL, NCAA, U Sports.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blue_gold_84 on November 17, 2022, 02:15:18 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on November 16, 2022, 09:48:23 PM
Tears of joy are one thing... Rourke was not weeping for joy...

So, easier to be callous. Got it.

A show of emotion is a show of emotion. Full stop.

Quote from: J5V on November 17, 2022, 01:03:21 AM
Yes, men seem to cry more than women now.

Nah.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Horseman on November 17, 2022, 03:09:21 PM
Quote from: dd on November 17, 2022, 02:53:54 AM
So the guy has 2 NFL teams working him out in a week, more than 2 dozen others interested and he's crying because the team he's leaving to.pursue his nfl dream lost?!? Seems overly dramatic and somewhat superficial/fake to me. If you really cares about the Lions players, don't go to.the nfl and stay there and try and win a championship, leaving and crying because you lost and 'care so much' seems hypocritical to me.

Maybe he was crying because he knows this was his only chance to win a GC for his teammates like Burnham as Rourke knows he will not be returning to the CFL next year. Maybe, no one will ever know.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on November 17, 2022, 03:35:05 PM
Quote from: Pigskin on November 16, 2022, 10:54:16 PM
And this is one of the problems we have in the world right now. We still have a few Neanderthals wondering around. 

My point was in reaction to someone equating Rourke's tears of disappointment to Richard Harris' tears of joy.  I was pointing out they are far from equivalent.

Call me a neanderthal, for watching a sport where elite athletes in peak physical condition try to inflict as much damage to each other as physically possible with narrow confines of legal / illegal hits.  And then question why I would find that a young man who is supposed to lead his team breaking down in tears doesn't quite fit the paradigm.  Sure, emotion is important in sport, but weakness is deadly.  Sorry if i take the tears as weakness, and that I think he should have sucked it up, took it, and said "We will get them next time".  Not sure you inspire your team by turning on the waterworks.  There are far superior ways in the game of football to lead a team, and to declare you have "unfinished business", than weeping openly.

Not sure I have ever seen it before, and definately not to the level shown last Sunday.  Yes, he's still a kid, yes, it was a huge disappointment.  But this is a man's game.  Yup, a neanderthal's game.

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: the paw on November 17, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on November 17, 2022, 03:35:05 PM
My point was in reaction to someone equating Rourke's tears of disappointment to Richard Harris' tears of joy.  I was pointing out they are far from equivalent.

Call me a neanderthal, for watching a sport where elite athletes in peak physical condition try to inflict as much damage to each other as physically possible with narrow confines of legal / illegal hits.  And then question why I would find that a young man who is supposed to lead his team breaking down in tears doesn't quite fit the paradigm.  Sure, emotion is important in sport, but weakness is deadly.  Sorry if i take the tears as weakness, and that I think he should have sucked it up, took it, and said "We will get them next time".  Not sure you inspire your team by turning on the waterworks.  There are far superior ways in the game of football to lead a team, and to declare you have "unfinished business", than weeping openly.

Not sure I have ever seen it before, and definately not to the level shown last Sunday.  Yes, he's still a kid, yes, it was a huge disappointment.  But this is a man's game.  Yup, a neanderthal's game.



This has been another episode of Doubling Down on Stupid Arguments....
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on November 17, 2022, 04:34:00 PM
Those who scoff at men crying are somewhat  "lacking" in terms of character and empathy.    Crying is an emotion and it's a universal sign of strength of character.   Rourke felt he let his teammate down and for me this speaks of his tremendous leadership ability.   He will someday be a great QB (barring injury) either in the NFL or the CFL.    He's a winner and a warrior and I wish him the best of luck in pursuing his dream!   Full stop!
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Jesse on November 17, 2022, 04:36:42 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on November 17, 2022, 03:35:05 PM
My point was in reaction to someone equating Rourke's tears of disappointment to Richard Harris' tears of joy.  I was pointing out they are far from equivalent.

Call me a neanderthal, for watching a sport where elite athletes in peak physical condition try to inflict as much damage to each other as physically possible with narrow confines of legal / illegal hits.  And then question why I would find that a young man who is supposed to lead his team breaking down in tears doesn't quite fit the paradigm.  Sure, emotion is important in sport, but weakness is deadly.  Sorry if i take the tears as weakness, and that I think he should have sucked it up, took it, and said "We will get them next time".  Not sure you inspire your team by turning on the waterworks.  There are far superior ways in the game of football to lead a team, and to declare you have "unfinished business", than weeping openly.

Not sure I have ever seen it before, and definately not to the level shown last Sunday.  Yes, he's still a kid, yes, it was a huge disappointment.  But this is a man's game.  Yup, a neanderthal's game.



The guy was the best QB in the league over the first half of the year. You wouldn't watch the game because it was too cold out.

I have full faith in his ability to play the game and his emotions after the season has concluded have zero impact on his abilities.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: ModAdmin on November 17, 2022, 04:44:05 PM
Let's bring the topic back to Nathan Rourke - his talent, accomplishments and potential future.

The back and forth on his emotions has been exhausted. This will keep the thread open for now.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on November 18, 2022, 12:20:50 AM
Quote from: Horseman on November 17, 2022, 03:09:21 PM
Maybe he was crying because he knows this was his only chance to win a GC for his teammates like Burnham as Rourke knows he will not be returning to the CFL next year. Maybe, no one will ever know.
Ya there is that angle, that this was the team that gave him his first professional opportunity to show the world what he can do and he would have like to repay them with a trip to the grey cup. Ya I can see that
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on November 18, 2022, 09:42:10 PM
If he's back in the CFL in 2023 he'll be a force to reckon with, that's for sure. Fun player to watch with all the talent he has. He's still inexperienced but will continue to improve. Obviously NFL money would hard to turn down, although a PR spot is somewhat of a risk over CFL starting QB money. If he decides to stay in the NFL I hope he picks the right opportunity where he might get on an AR sooner than later.

Realistically that's easier said than done. There will be a number of teams taking QB's in the 1st and 2nd rounds.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: ModAdmin on January 06, 2023, 04:02:42 AM
CFL News
@CFL_News

2h
.@FarhanLaljiTSN
the go-to source for all things Rourke, has reported that the Canadian-born quarterback has already received multiple offers that include guaranteed money, with annual salary of at least US $700,000. - @TheRealJJAdams
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 06, 2023, 05:01:44 AM
Quote from: ModAdmin on January 06, 2023, 04:02:42 AM
the go-to source for all things Rourke, has reported that the Canadian-born quarterback has already received multiple offers that include guaranteed money, with annual salary of at least US $700,000. - @TheRealJJAdams

Well, that's that then.  ;D  Don't have to worry about BC next year.   :D  We should breeze to another West Div championship.

P.S. Isn't $700k rather paltry for an extremely promising young QB (...that can throw...) in the NFL?
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bluengold204 on January 06, 2023, 01:02:33 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 06, 2023, 05:01:44 AM
Well, that's that then.  ;D  Don't have to worry about BC next year.   :D  We should breeze to another West Div championship.

P.S. Isn't $700k rather paltry for an extremely promising young QB (...that can throw...) in the NFL?


It?s league minimum.  I wouldn?t expect anything more, guy had half a season in the CFL he?s not gonna be offered big money.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on January 06, 2023, 01:05:54 PM
Quote from: ModAdmin on January 06, 2023, 04:02:42 AM
CFL News
@CFL_News

2h
.@FarhanLaljiTSN
the go-to source for all things Rourke, has reported that the Canadian-born quarterback has already received multiple offers that include guaranteed money, with annual salary of at least US $700,000. - @TheRealJJAdams


Guaranteed money will land him in the NFL in 2023. Good for him but bad for the CFL losing his talent.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: the paw on January 06, 2023, 01:37:47 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 06, 2023, 05:01:44 AM
Well, that's that then.  ;D  Don't have to worry about BC next year.   :D  We should breeze to another West Div championship.

P.S. Isn't $700k rather paltry for an extremely promising young QB (...that can throw...) in the NFL?


There are at least 21 QBs in the NFL making less than $700k

https://overthecap.com/position

Its not starter money, but its double what Streveler is making in his third year.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on January 06, 2023, 02:11:36 PM
Quote from: the paw on January 06, 2023, 01:37:47 PM
There are at least 21 QBs in the NFL making less than $700k

https://overthecap.com/position

Its not starter money, but its double what Streveler is making in his third year.

$700K is for players on active roster and / or have that guarantee in their deal. Streveler was on a PR for most of the season as were many of the others in the link. PR money can also have some guaranteed money and could still pay more than good CFL contracts.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: the paw on January 06, 2023, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on January 06, 2023, 02:11:36 PM
$700K is for players on active roster and / or have that guarantee in their deal. Streveler was on a PR for most of the season as were many of the others in the link. PR money can also have some guaranteed money and could still pay more than good CFL contracts.

Agreed.  My point was that by guaranteeing the $700k, the club is clearly stating they expect him to make the active roster.  So he is seen as a more than marginal prospect, which is pretty good for an undrafted player.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on January 06, 2023, 04:24:14 PM
Quote from: the paw on January 06, 2023, 04:07:47 PM
Agreed.  My point was that by guaranteeing the $700k, the club is clearly stating they expect him to make the active roster.  So he is seen as a more than marginal prospect, which is pretty good for an undrafted player.

Sounds very good for him. I wonder which team lands him. In some cases he could actually have an opportunity to really compete for # 1 or # 2. In other cases he'll be a development player initially. That's the not the worst thing for him to spend season 1 learning the NFL ropes while earning very good money ( by CFL stds ).

We could hear early next week once the window opens for him to sign a deal.

He had a workout with the Vikings and that could be a place for a real chance to move up the depth chart quickly. That's just a guess on my part.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bomb squad on January 06, 2023, 04:51:47 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on January 06, 2023, 04:24:14 PM
Sounds very good for him. I wonder which team lands him. In some cases he could actually have an opportunity to really compete for # 1 or # 2. In other cases he'll be a development player initially. That's the not the worst thing for him to spend season 1 learning the NFL ropes while earning very good money ( by CFL stds ).

We could hear early next week once the window opens for him to sign a deal.

He had a workout with the Vikings and that could be a place for a real chance to move up the depth chart quickly. That's just a guess on my part.

Cousins looks to have a solid hold on the starter's job for quite some time to come and he's very durable to boot. If I was him, I would go where the starter isn't so solid.

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Jesse on January 06, 2023, 05:05:28 PM
You also want someplace that has weapons around you and isn't a complete dumpster fire. That'll bounce you out real quick.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on January 06, 2023, 05:41:56 PM
Quote from: bomb squad on January 06, 2023, 04:51:47 PM
Cousins looks to have a solid hold on the starter's job for quite some time to come and he's very durable to boot. If I was him, I would go where the starter isn't so solid.



Could be but he's also a 34 year old QB and making a lot more than $700K. In any case I already mentioned that would allow him to move up the depth chart more quickly than some other teams.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on January 06, 2023, 05:47:05 PM
Quote from: bomb squad on January 06, 2023, 04:51:47 PM
Cousins looks to have a solid hold on the starter's job for quite some time to come and he's very durable to boot. If I was him, I would go where the starter isn't so solid.



Yes but Cousins is also a 34 year old QB and making a lot more than $700K. The real question is could he move ahead of Mullens as the # 2 in 2023. I have no real expectation that Rourke will be the # 1 QB for any team in 2023. IMO he's looking for a chance to win the # 2 spot.

The Vikings may or may not be his best bet, that remains to be seen I suppose.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bomb squad on January 06, 2023, 07:16:46 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on January 06, 2023, 05:41:56 PM
Could be but he's also a 34 year old QB and making a lot more than $700K. In any case I already mentioned that would allow him to move up the depth chart more quickly than some other teams.

I hear you. But I would still be surprised if he signs with the Vikings for the reasons I mentioned.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on January 06, 2023, 10:45:52 PM
I doubt he'll ever be back in the CFL. He's 10x the prospect Streveler was and Strevy has managed to stay.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 07, 2023, 12:30:58 AM
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 06, 2023, 10:45:52 PM
I doubt he'll ever be back in the CFL. He's 10x the prospect Streveler was and Strevy has managed to stay.

But Strev wasn't signed to be a "normal #1 QB" in the NFL.  He was signed to be Strev.  Shocking, but it's worked for him.

Rourke has to prove he can be an every-down, every-game legit #1.  Yes, he might pull it off, but then again, BLM in his prime couldn't land a job in the NFL... Is Rourke better than BLM in his prime??

Who's the last CFL QB to make it as a #1 in the NFL?  Flutie?  Moon?  You have to go back quite a ways (based on my memory).  Better yet, who's the last NAT CFL QB to make it as a #1 in the NFL?  ... No one.

If after 1 year on AR @$700k he gets relegated to a PR for $350k, then it might become attractive for him to come back up and start for $600k (yes, exchange rate, mumble mumble).  Even if he makes the same or less, at least in the CFL he'll be starting, making good film, and be a superstar hero.  That counts for something.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: ichabod_crane on January 07, 2023, 12:40:56 AM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 07, 2023, 12:30:58 AM
But Strev wasn't signed to be a "normal #1 QB" in the NFL.  He was signed to be Strev.  Shocking, but it's worked for him.

Rourke has to prove he can be an every-down, every-game legit #1.  Yes, he might pull it off, but then again, BLM in his prime couldn't land a job in the NFL... Is Rourke better than BLM in his prime??

Who's the last CFL QB to make it as a #1 in the NFL?  Flutie?  Moon?  You have to go back quite a ways (based on my memory).  Better yet, who's the last NAT CFL QB to make it as a #1 in the NFL?  ... No one.

If after 1 year on AR @$700k he gets relegated to a PR for $350k, then it might become attractive for him to come back up and start for $600k (yes, exchange rate, mumble mumble).  Even if he makes the same or less, at least in the CFL he'll be starting, making good film, and be a superstar hero.  That counts for something.



Jeff Garcia eventually became a #1 with San Francisco, but not right off the bat. Can?t recall any other cfl qb in the last 20 years getting a legitimate shot even at the #2 spot in the nfl.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bomb squad on January 07, 2023, 02:17:30 AM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 07, 2023, 12:30:58 AM
But Strev wasn't signed to be a "normal #1 QB" in the NFL.  He was signed to be Strev.  Shocking, but it's worked for him.

Rourke has to prove he can be an every-down, every-game legit #1.  Yes, he might pull it off, but then again, BLM in his prime couldn't land a job in the NFL... Is Rourke better than BLM in his prime??

Who's the last CFL QB to make it as a #1 in the NFL?  Flutie?  Moon?  You have to go back quite a ways (based on my memory).  Better yet, who's the last NAT CFL QB to make it as a #1 in the NFL?  ... No one.

If after 1 year on AR @$700k he gets relegated to a PR for $350k, then it might become attractive for him to come back up and start for $600k (yes, exchange rate, mumble mumble).  Even if he makes the same or less, at least in the CFL he'll be starting, making good film, and be a superstar hero.  That counts for something.


Yes, he will have to prove himself to land a #1 and it remains to be seen if he will or if he will even get the chance to. As to BLM, as good as he was, he didn't have the same impact as Rourke did, even considering the short timeframe. The hype was off the charts. Bo did not get the same interest and opportunity as Rourke is getting now. Nathan got their attention, Bo didn't. Fair or not fair.

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on January 07, 2023, 04:28:04 PM
Quote from: bomb squad on January 07, 2023, 02:17:30 AM
Yes, he will have to prove himself to land a #1 and it remains to be seen if he will or if he will even get the chance to. As to BLM, as good as he was, he didn't have the same impact as Rourke did, even considering the short timeframe. The hype was off the charts. Bo did not get the same interest and opportunity as Rourke is getting now. Nathan got their attention, Bo didn't. Fair or not fair.



Hype will only go so far for so long. I'm not saying he didn't deserve the hype, but that in itself is just a brief glimpse of his potential. BLM had a more extensive career with success and it still didn't end up with a good NFL offer.

So it comes down getting a chance to compete on a team that is struggling at the QB position where a real opening exists. If the team has good talent on offence then a new QB could do well. OTOH on a bad team he could get the hook quickly even if he was not the cause.

How would Rourke have looked in Ottawa for example?

I'm not sure why NFL teams he will consider or be the best fit.

He was going to the Bengals for a workout and I'd think that wouldn't be a great opportunity other than becoming the # 2 QB. Burrows is only 26 and considered one of he best in the NFL. He could be their starter for a long time as an example.

I guess it's point of view / perspective on what defines the best opportunity. Playing time or developing within a good system.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on January 07, 2023, 04:40:32 PM
In case this wasn't posted earlier. Rourke will have had looks from 9 teams shortly and more in the near future.  I think he's had looks from the top 4 or 5 rankings as best opportunity.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjOi6Pi_7X8AhWXFzQIHa-6DfEQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2F3downnation.com%2F2022%2F12%2F04%2Franking-every-possible-nfl-landing-spot-for-nathan-rourke%2F&usg=AOvVaw0FwgGMhyc-IoXau37l2OgJ
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 07, 2023, 09:27:32 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on January 07, 2023, 04:28:04 PM
Hype will only go so far for so long. I'm not saying he didn't deserve the hype, but that in itself is just a brief glimpse of his potential. BLM had a more extensive career with success and it still didn't end up with a good NFL offer.

So it comes down getting a chance to compete on a team that is struggling at the QB position where a real opening exists. If the team has good talent on offence then a new QB could do well. OTOH on a bad team he could get the hook quickly even if he was not the cause.

How would Rourke have looked in Ottawa for example?

I'm not sure why NFL teams he will consider or be the best fit.

He was going to the Bengals for a workout and I'd think that wouldn't be a great opportunity other than becoming the # 2 QB. Burrows is only 26 and considered one of he best in the NFL. He could be their starter for a long time as an example.

I guess it's point of view / perspective on what defines the best opportunity. Playing time or developing within a good system.

It wouldn't hurt Rourke's development to be #2 on a decent team, rather than #1 on a bad team.  He has lot's of time to work his way up the ladder and find his place.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on January 07, 2023, 10:08:30 PM
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 07, 2023, 09:27:32 PM
It wouldn't hurt Rourke's development to be #2 on a decent team, rather than #1 on a bad team.  He has lot's of time to work his way up the ladder and find his place.

That's what I'm thinking. The catch is that bad team could be drafting a QB in the 1st round. That will happen after he signs somewhere so there is a bit of a gamble in his choice.

Vegas was another team that he had a workout. They don't look very good today. Could be another destination for him.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 08, 2023, 05:07:28 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 07, 2023, 12:30:58 AM
But Strev wasn't signed to be a "normal #1 QB" in the NFL.  He was signed to be Strev.  Shocking, but it's worked for him.

Rourke has to prove he can be an every-down, every-game legit #1.  Yes, he might pull it off, but then again, BLM in his prime couldn't land a job in the NFL... Is Rourke better than BLM in his prime??

Who's the last CFL QB to make it as a #1 in the NFL?  Flutie?  Moon?  You have to go back quite a ways (based on my memory).  Better yet, who's the last NAT CFL QB to make it as a #1 in the NFL?  ... No one.

If after 1 year on AR @$700k he gets relegated to a PR for $350k, then it might become attractive for him to come back up and start for $600k (yes, exchange rate, mumble mumble).  Even if he makes the same or less, at least in the CFL he'll be starting, making good film, and be a superstar hero.  That counts for something.

To my recollection there has never been a Canadian QB in the NFL who was a starter.   Russ Jackson was the exception and he might have made it down there as a starter.   How many Canadian QBs have been perennial starters in the CFL let alone the NFL?   Russ Jackson so yeah Rourke was exceptional and even on one leg he fought back hard against us in the Western final.   
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: the paw on January 08, 2023, 05:33:57 PM
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on January 08, 2023, 05:07:28 PM
To my recollection there has never been a Canadian QB in the NFL who was a starter.   Russ Jackson was the exception and he might have made it down there as a starter.   How many Canadian QBs have been perennial starters in the CFL let alone the NFL?   Russ Jackson so yeah Rourke was exceptional and even on one leg he fought back hard against us in the Western final.   

Mark Rypien had a long NFL career, and was the primary starter for at least 5 seasons.  Jesse Palmer started 3 games out of the 5 years he played in the NFL.

As for Canadian starters in the CFL, in addition to Russ Jackson, Gerry Datillio was starting quality.  Greg Vavra was a marginal starter for a few years.  A more comprehensive list can be found at:

https://boxscorenews.com/missing-in-action-canadianborn-quarterbacks-p68559-90.htm
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 09, 2023, 04:45:38 PM
Quote from: the paw on January 08, 2023, 05:33:57 PM
Mark Rypien had a long NFL career, and was the primary starter for at least 5 seasons.  Jesse Palmer started 3 games out of the 5 years he played in the NFL.

As for Canadian starters in the CFL, in addition to Russ Jackson, Gerry Datillio was starting quality.  Greg Vavra was a marginal starter for a few years.  A more comprehensive list can be found at:

https://boxscorenews.com/missing-in-action-canadianborn-quarterbacks-p68559-90.htm
Thanks for the update....so Rypien was a legit perennial starter.....and the rest had short appearances.    Russ Jackson was memorable and I was quite young when he was in his prime.    He was athletic and smart and could throw the ball on the run and from the pocket.   What's also memorable was that he never missed a game due to injury and was the only player to win both the Schenley for MOP and MOC.
https://cfhof.ca/members/russ-jackson/
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Horseman on January 09, 2023, 10:12:24 PM
I loved Russ Jackson as a player and he is even a better person.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on January 09, 2023, 10:30:11 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 07, 2023, 12:30:58 AM
But Strev wasn't signed to be a "normal #1 QB" in the NFL.  He was signed to be Strev.  Shocking, but it's worked for him.

Rourke has to prove he can be an every-down, every-game legit #1.  Yes, he might pull it off, but then again, BLM in his prime couldn't land a job in the NFL... Is Rourke better than BLM in his prime??

Who's the last CFL QB to make it as a #1 in the NFL?  Flutie?  Moon?  You have to go back quite a ways (based on my memory).  Better yet, who's the last NAT CFL QB to make it as a #1 in the NFL?  ... No one.

If after 1 year on AR @$700k he gets relegated to a PR for $350k, then it might become attractive for him to come back up and start for $600k (yes, exchange rate, mumble mumble).  Even if he makes the same or less, at least in the CFL he'll be starting, making good film, and be a superstar hero.  That counts for something.


Streveler was always signed as a "normal" QB in the NFL. Running QBs are surging in that league right now. They used to be a gimmick and now they're more common than your standard drop back prospect.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 10, 2023, 03:16:09 AM
This....

https://3downnation.com/2023/01/09/new-york-jets-re-sign-former-cfl-qb-chris-streveler/
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on January 11, 2023, 03:41:11 PM
Rourke has a work out with the Browns. That's about 12 teams that have expressed interest to date. It's anybody's guess how many offers he'll get or what he chooses to do. The only certainty is that he's not going to be in the CFL in 2023.

Impressive. Hopefully he lands on a good team that gives him some exposure on the field without putting too much on his shoulders too early. I'd hate to see him land on a bad team with a poor surrounding cast.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: ModAdmin on January 12, 2023, 04:21:17 AM
Farhan Lalji
@FarhanLaljiTSN
2h
Nathan Rourke's workout tour concluded today in Cleveland. He visited 12 teams, a majority have made offers, several with meaningful guarantees. Rourke has been in regular contact with #BCLions throughout the process. A decision is imminent, I expect by the weekend. @TSN_Sports
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 12, 2023, 07:16:42 AM
Quote from: ModAdmin on January 12, 2023, 04:21:17 AM
Nathan Rourke?s workout tour concluded today in Cleveland. He visited 12 teams, a majority have made offers, several with meaningful guarantees. Rourke has been in regular contact with #BCLions throughout the process. A decision is imminent, I expect by the weekend. @TSN_Sports

Is it possible BC could outbid the NFL?  Or get within 100-200k so Rourke can justify staying?  Hey, crazier things have happened.  Remember the Rocket (ya, no SMS, yada yada).
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on January 12, 2023, 12:58:05 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 12, 2023, 07:16:42 AM
Is it possible BC could outbid the NFL?  Or get within 100-200k so Rourke can justify staying?  Hey, crazier things have happened.  Remember the Rocket (ya, no SMS, yada yada).


Not really. NFL minimum ELC is over $700K usd and he might get more than that. He might also see some NFL playoff money or potentially Super Bowl money.  What he might actually be guaranteed regarding chances to actually play is going to depend on where he signs.

I didn't realize that the Browns were his last workout. So he may be making a decision very quickly?
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on January 12, 2023, 01:02:49 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 12, 2023, 07:16:42 AM
Is it possible BC could outbid the NFL?  Or get within 100-200k so Rourke can justify staying?  Hey, crazier things have happened.  Remember the Rocket (ya, no SMS, yada yada).


$750,000 USD = Just over $1,000,000 CDN

CFL Team Salary Cap in 2023 = $5,510,000 CDN


...What do you think?
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Jesse on January 12, 2023, 03:07:36 PM
Quote from: Blue In BC on January 12, 2023, 12:58:05 PM
Not really. NFL minimum ELC is over $700K usd and he might get more than that. He might also see some NFL playoff money or potentially Super Bowl money.  What he might actually be guaranteed regarding chances to actually play is going to depend on where he signs.

I didn't realize that the Browns were his last workout. So he may be making a decision very quickly?

It has been suggested that we'll know by the weekend.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 12, 2023, 03:26:18 PM
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 12, 2023, 01:02:49 PM
$750,000 USD = Just over $1,000,000 CDN

CFL Team Salary Cap in 2023 = $5,510,000 CDN


...What do you think?
Gone to the NFL....several teams have offered "significant guarantees" according to Farhan.    He was making entry level wages last year which allowed BC to bolster their lineup.   Meanwhile Nathan played lights out and was on pace to shatter every CFL QB stat in existence until.....well we'll never ever know will we.

Good luck Nathan and stay healthy so we can follow your progress in the NFL....whenever and wherever you find your team
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 12, 2023, 04:53:36 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 12, 2023, 07:16:42 AM
Is it possible BC could outbid the NFL?  Or get within 100-200k so Rourke can justify staying?  Hey, crazier things have happened.  Remember the Rocket (ya, no SMS, yada yada).


Not likely, why would he sidestep a career path that could potentially earn him $35-40 million/yr. if he becomes a starter?
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Sec227 on January 12, 2023, 04:53:43 PM
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 12, 2023, 01:02:49 PM
$750,000 USD = Just over $1,000,000 CDN

CFL Team Salary Cap in 2023 = $5,510,000 CDN


...What do you think?

Unfortunate reality. I wish him the best. And I hope he gets meaningful reps in. I definitely will root for him!
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on January 12, 2023, 08:35:03 PM
Copied from posts over at Lionbackers. The Notes are my comments.


I have never seen a clear explanation of how the Lions would be able to sign Roarke to a lucrative contract given the cost-controlled framework for first contracts for nationals in the CBA.

Section 9.02 of the 2019 CBA states that "All Nationals will be required to sign a minimum 2 + 1 first contract and follow the salary grid at outlined below". The salary for years 1 and 2 are determined based on draft position, with some modest optional bonus and housing amounts. The third "option" year salary is negotiable but can only be maximum 10% higher than year 2.

I am assuming that the new CBA follows the same structure.

Since year 3 is an option year, does that mean that the Lions could choose not to exercise the option and then be free to sign Roarke to a more lucrative contract? Or are they expecting the league to change the rules to allow them to make a better offer? Or do they think Roarke would come back at $85,000 CDN for 2023?

I think making an exception in the CBA for national quarterbacks would be justified based on the salary differential between QBs and other positions.


I've never seen a direct answer to your question but every indication is that first contracts can be torn up if an extension is signed before the contract expires. Farhan suggests the Lions are offering Rourke $600,000-plus for this year, likely with similar numbers for any following years. Even with an extension, Rourke would still be free to check out NFL offers after the 2023 season.

Rules are made to be broken. If Rourke is willing to play for the Lions in 2023, then Lions should ignore the rules, sign Rourke for what he is worth as a starting CFL QB, then appeal to the CFL for an exemption after the fact.

Notes:

1. It's not entirely clear whether a contact can be torn up and totally ignore the current rules. IE: Pay him the big money and apply for an exemption afterwards as suggested in the last copied comment from the Lions sight.

2. I know Rourke looked really good before his injury but does that really justify paying him $600K+ as either the highest or 2nd highest salary for a CFL QB / Player? Based on what we've read about the new CBA, he could sign a 7 year contract and still be eligible to leave at the end of any season. Something is just wrong with that idea IMO.

3. Regardless, money aside there is more to signing in the NFL than just the money aspect.

I'd like to see him back in the CFL but there has to be a line drawn somewhere IMO.

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 12, 2023, 10:20:07 PM
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 12, 2023, 01:02:49 PM
$750,000 USD = Just over $1,000,000 CDN

CFL Team Salary Cap in 2023 = $5,510,000 CDN

...What do you think?

I think if Hervey could pay Mike Reilly $750k 4 years ago that BC (if they really wanted to) could afford $850k now (inflation and all) for Rourke.  $850k gets you close to the base NFL offer...

Ya, BC was dumb to pay $750k and they'd be dumb to do what I'm suggesting.  I'm just pointing out how it is possible a team could tempt a top QB to stay up north.  Especially if said QB was very loyal to Canada and the CFL.  I'm not saying this is the case, but it's not outside the realm of possibilities.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TBURGESS on January 12, 2023, 10:34:07 PM
I've been having the same argument on that other site.

Naylor was tweeting a while back about the CFLPA and the CFL being on board with allowing the Lions to offer Rourke more than the mandatory $85K that's in the CBA. Contract 101: You can't ignore the clause in the CBA, but if both sides of a contract sign off, in writing, on changing a clause, then that clause can be changed. My guess is that the contract clause was changed last year when the Lions asked the league to be able to pay more in the 2nd year of the contract. The league said no, but maybe they signed off on allowing an offer in the 3rd year.

QuoteSection 9.02 Length of First Contracts (starting in 2020)
(a) National Players
All Nationals will be required to sign a minimum 2 + 1 first contract and follow the salary grid at outlined below:
...
1st Year - Max. - Min. Salary $65,000
2nd Year 3rd Year - Max. - Min. Salary $65,000
Option year base salary to be negotiated - not to exceed 10% more than the 2nd year base salary.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: BlueInCgy on January 12, 2023, 11:17:30 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 12, 2023, 10:20:07 PM
I think if Hervey could pay Mike Reilly $750k 4 years ago that BC (if they really wanted to) could afford $850k now (inflation and all) for Rourke.  $850k gets you close to the base NFL offer...

Ya, BC was dumb to pay $750k and they'd be dumb to do what I'm suggesting.  I'm just pointing out how it is possible a team could tempt a top QB to stay up north.  Especially if said QB was very loyal to Canada and the CFL.  I'm not saying this is the case, but it's not outside the realm of possibilities.


The goal is to get to the NFL.  Why anyone would take 20% less than the lowest they would get in the NFL for an absolutely maxed out offer in the CFL, and then be stuck behind a salary cap limited Oline with salary cap limited receivers is nowhere in the realm of sound business or career decisions.  Why people are so enthralled with the idea that the CFL is a competitive position to the NFL is beyond me.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on January 13, 2023, 12:14:00 AM
Quote from: BlueInCgy on January 12, 2023, 11:17:30 PM
The goal is to get to the NFL.  Why anyone would take 20% less than the lowest they would get in the NFL for an absolutely maxed out offer in the CFL, and then be stuck behind a salary cap limited Oline with salary cap limited receivers is nowhere in the realm of sound business or career decisions.  Why people are so enthralled with the idea that the CFL is a competitive position to the NFL is beyond me.

You can gut your roster by paying a QB $700K ( Reilly ) or a receiver $300K ( Lawler ). The Lions said they spent the rest of the 2022 SMS by extending Whyte. If they have to offer Rourke a $500K-$600K increase over 2022, what does that do to the rest of the SMS across the roster?

Also the idea of bending / breaking / changing the rules to create an exception for any player is bad idea IMO. What's next, giving the Redblacks an extra $1M of SMS in order for them to be more competitive?

Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: the paw on January 13, 2023, 12:38:08 AM
I don't think there has been a single player since the days of Tom Cousineau, Rocket Ishmail and David Overstreet who can legitimately say they chose the  CFL over a viable NFL shot, and that it was better for their careers.

The hard, cold fact is that players come to the CFL when they make the assessment that they have shot their shot, that they do not have a realistic likelihood of catching on to an NFL roster (or for younger guys that they need to build game film and develop).  It doesn't matter whether you are talking about Milt Stegall, Dave Dickenson, Henry Burris or Ricky Williams. 

There are a lot of very good athletes who are very happy that they made the decision to settle in to a successful CFL career rather than bounce from PR to waivers to PR with an endless succession of NFL clubs.  The light bulb goes on sooner for some guys than others, but to a man, they shoot their shot before they make that decision. 

The exception that proves the rule might be that Matt Sewell kid, who was drafted high by the Argos, but signed in the NFL and then got homesick and asked to be released so he could come play in Toronto.  But he was a bit of a bust in the CFL as well, so that might be the flake factor.....
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 13, 2023, 05:07:23 AM
Quote from: BlueInCgy on January 12, 2023, 11:17:30 PM
The goal is to get to the NFL.  Why anyone would take 20% less than the lowest they would get in the NFL for an absolutely maxed out offer in the CFL, and then be stuck behind a salary cap limited Oline with salary cap limited receivers is nowhere in the realm of sound business or career decisions.

To play and get film and get the cheers from the crowd and be the #1 guy and make a name for yourself and win GCs.  Will that happen for Rourke in the NFL?  To be honest, I'd be shocked if he ever started more than a couple games in the NFL (as an injury replacement only).  The odds of a NAT "making it" in the NFL are astronomical.

Quote from: Blue In BC on January 13, 2023, 12:14:00 AM
Also the idea of bending / breaking / changing the rules to create an exception for any player is bad idea IMO. What's next, giving the Redblacks an extra $1M of SMS in order for them to be more competitive?

I didn't say anything about exceptions.  Just the idea that some (stupid) GM could pay him enough to keep him out of the NFL.  Of course it'll hurt the team: see BC 2019.

Quote from: the paw on January 13, 2023, 12:38:08 AM
The hard, cold fact is that players come to the CFL when they make the assessment that they have shot their shot, that they do not have a realistic likelihood of catching on to an NFL roster (or for younger guys that they need to build game film and develop).  It doesn't matter whether you are talking about Milt Stegall, Dave Dickenson, Henry Burris or Ricky Williams. 
...
There are a lot of very good athletes who are very happy that they made the decision to settle in to a successful CFL career rather than bounce from PR to waivers to PR with an endless succession of NFL clubs.  The light bulb goes on sooner for some guys than others, but to a man, they shoot their shot before they make that decision. 

Exactly.  I would say Rourke does "not have a realistic likelihood of catching on to an NFL roster" and he's a "younger guy that they need to build game film and develop".

The situation is unique, unlike say Strevie, because Strevie was looking at $100-$175k in the CFL vs way more in the NFL, especially when he starts games.  And if Strevie had proven starter-worthy he would have been $700us+ -- lots more to go down for.  Rourke is looking at $650ca here (though it might take another year) or $700us down there where he'll languish on the PR like Strevie does.

Only if Rourke thinks he can start in the NFL in a few years and make millions a year would/should he completely shun the CFL.  Does he think that?  I guess all 20-somethings think they are God, so, it is possible.  Doubt it happens, though.  More likely is the NFL chews him up and spits him out and we see him back north in 2.5 years trying to make up lost ground.

In the meantime, BC will suck with VAJ or Mr No-name as #1.  Good for us in WPG.  Not good for Lions' attendance.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TBURGESS on January 13, 2023, 03:11:31 PM
Rourke's season last years film was enough for 12 NFL teams to give him a try out.

Rourke has a skill set that is hugely better than Streveler.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: the paw on January 13, 2023, 04:07:16 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 13, 2023, 05:07:23 AM


Exactly.  I would say Rourke does "not have a realistic likelihood of catching on to an NFL roster" and he's a "younger guy that they need to build game film and develop".



This is where I think you are flat out wrong.  Rourke was dominating the CFL last year, and he got 12 workouts and multiple offers.  He doesn't need more film, and he's developed pretty much as far as he can in the CFL.  His numbers were off the hook.   Rourke is definitely going to make a 53 man roster.  And if he misjudges who he signs with in terms of opportunity, the minute they list him on waivers one of the other 11 teams will snap him up.

I don't know if he ever becomes an NFL starter.  Losing him is a loss for the CFL.  But there is no upside for him to stay in the CFL.  None.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 13, 2023, 04:13:02 PM
Quote from: TBURGESS on January 13, 2023, 03:11:31 PM
Rourke's season last years film was enough for 12 NFL teams to give him a try out.

Rourke has a skill set that is hugely better than Streveler.
As much as I love Streveler, I would have to agree.   Rourkes passing ability and decision making skills are superior to Strev no question.   Strev has enormous running skills and runs like an angry fullback and with speed!   His leadership skills and ability to motivate his teammates are also on par with Rourke but it is Rourke's quick and accurate arm coupled with his quick thinking that is the difference.    Size does matter though when it comes to QBs playing in the NFL and Rourke isn't that big compared to Strev.    He would the perfect fit for the CFL and not as much for the NFL imho.  
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Jesse on January 13, 2023, 04:50:58 PM
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on January 13, 2023, 04:13:02 PM
As much as I love Streveler, I would have to agree.   Rourkes passing ability and decision making skills are superior to Strev no question.   Strev has enormous running skills and runs like an angry fullback and with speed!   His leadership skills and ability to motivate his teammates are also on par with Rourke but it is Rourke's quick and accurate arm coupled with his quick thinking that is the difference.    Size does matter though when it comes to QBs playing in the NFL and Rourke isn't that big compared to Strev.    He would the perfect fit for the CFL and not as much for the NFL imho.  

Contrary to common believe, Strev is not a big guy (by football standards).

He's listed as 6'1", 215. Rourke is 6'2", 210.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on January 13, 2023, 05:19:22 PM
Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 12, 2023, 07:16:42 AM
Is it possible BC could outbid the NFL?  Or get within 100-200k so Rourke can justify staying?  Hey, crazier things have happened.  Remember the Rocket (ya, no SMS, yada yada).


No.  Just no.

The reason for taking an NFL spot, 3rd string or even PR, is to work your way to starter.  He's done all he can here.  Now he takes the next step to being an NFL starter making 20 million a year or more...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on January 13, 2023, 05:22:58 PM
Not only has Rourke taken 12 tryouts (who knows if more were interested), but many have opportunities for advancement, either declared or hinted at.  And many have offered cash guarantees.  So, no, there is no way he returns to the CFL any time soon... I'd say it takes him a minimum of 3 years to exhaust his opportunity, and probably longer...

I don't care what his passport is, his talent will determine whether he sticks in the NFL or not.   Will be interestesting to see if his brother comes through the CFL too, or gets an immediate look...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: The Zipp on January 15, 2023, 05:39:17 PM
Signing with the Jags...will get a chance to learn and he will get a shot if T Law gets hurt
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: ModAdmin on January 15, 2023, 05:48:15 PM
Farhan Lalji
@FarhanLaljiTSN
14m
Nathan Rourke has agreed to a deal with the Jacksonville Jaguars. @TSN_Sports @SportsCentre @NFLCanada

https://3downnation.com/2023/01/15/canadian-qb-nathan-rourke-signs-with-jacksonville-jaguars/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blueraid on January 15, 2023, 06:19:26 PM
Certainly was brief in the CFL.....thought he might stick around and season a bit more BUT the draw of the dollars is always paramount in pro sports....Good luck to him and I hope he does better than being a perrenial backup like Streve has become....Rourke's absence as the leo's pivot makes life for the Bombers a little easier when we play them ;)
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: ModAdmin on January 15, 2023, 06:40:53 PM
Rourke, Burnham and Purifoy departures will be significant loses for BC.  Expect them to be active in free agency.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on January 15, 2023, 07:34:57 PM
"CFL was an unforseen detour"...  WTH?

https://twitter.com/nathan_rourke/status/1614692883898183680
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TBURGESS on January 15, 2023, 08:04:08 PM
Congrats to Rourke. Hope he does well in the NFL.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: The Zipp on January 15, 2023, 08:49:06 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on January 15, 2023, 07:34:57 PM
"CFL was an unforseen detour"...  WTH?

https://twitter.com/nathan_rourke/status/1614692883898183680

His goal was to play in the NFL - prob was for most of not all QB's at one point in their lives...for Rourke it is still alive. 

Just how it is...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: ModAdmin on January 15, 2023, 09:34:27 PM
Quote from: The Zipp on January 15, 2023, 08:49:06 PM
His goal was to play in the NFL - prob was for most of not all QB's at one point in their lives...for Rourke it is still alive. 

Just how it is...

He could have chosen his words better.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Pete on January 15, 2023, 09:54:34 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on January 15, 2023, 07:34:57 PM
"CFL was an unforseen detour"...  WTH?

https://twitter.com/nathan_rourke/status/1614692883898183680
a little bit out of context he also talks about how great the experiance in cfl and how it helped him grow as a professional and was neccessary in order to reach the nfl
www.cbc.ca/sports/football/nfl/nathan-rourke-jacksonville-jaguars-1.6714877
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 15, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
I think it was inevitable as his play was the talk of the CFL and the NFL corporation took notice too and are not keen on any competition from the CFL when it comes to star players.....he was going to make a roster and it looks like he was more or less able to do this on his terms....something Chris Streveler was unable to accomplish.

Time will tell if he gets to play meaningful minutes right off the hop and if he does I'm fairly certain he will excel and make an immediate impact.   It's in his genes to do so....

Congratulations Nathan....it was the NFL's gain and the CFL's loss but for me it was never in doubt that he'd be snapped up by the No Fun League!
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 16, 2023, 04:05:46 AM
Rourke is great, and great for a rookie, for sure.  But he's not NFL starter material right now.  He just isn't.  If they start him in his 1st year he'll get eaten alive by middling to good D's.  Just like WPG ate him alive every time we played him.

The best hope for him is he gets to be a solid #2, doesn't really have to start, maybe takes some garbage time snaps.  He needs to learn more and get better on the IQ front.  He has all the physical qualities, that I certainly wouldn't deny, but can he learn to be great?  Maybe.

But I would bet heavily he'll be back in the CFL by 2026.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Pigskin on January 16, 2023, 04:47:24 AM
Rourke isn't going to be the starting QB in Jacksonville for awhile. Right now there trying to develop Trevor Lawrence. He also had a pretty good season. 4113 yards passing, 25 TDs, 8 Ints.   
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on January 16, 2023, 01:30:19 PM
Do any of you guys watch the NFL? He is never going to supplant Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville without some significant injures to Lawrence. What he wants is a good spot to be the legitimate number two QB for a couple years while trying to earn an opportunity to be a starter elsewhere. He might not have been at a stellar program but he did play Div 1 ball in the NCAA for three years and all those guys want to play in the NFL.

I'm sure that release was also written for an American audience in mind more so than the CFL one. He doesn't plan to be back, I am sure.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Jesse on January 16, 2023, 01:41:53 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on January 15, 2023, 07:34:57 PM
"CFL was an unforseen detour"...  WTH?

https://twitter.com/nathan_rourke/status/1614692883898183680

Jumped out for me too.

Did not like it at  all.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 16, 2023, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: Jesse on January 16, 2023, 01:41:53 PM
Jumped out for me too.

Did not like it at  all.

Poor wording, IMO.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on January 16, 2023, 03:14:42 PM
Sad to see  him leave the CFL but it's certainly understandable. Look forward to seeing him play when he gets a chance. Good luck for a long and successful career.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: the paw on January 16, 2023, 03:21:36 PM
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 16, 2023, 01:30:19 PM
Do any of you guys watch the NFL? He is never going to supplant Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville without some significant injures to Lawrence. What he wants is a good spot to be the legitimate number two QB for a couple years while trying to earn an opportunity to be a starter elsewhere. He might not have been at a stellar program but he did play Div 1 ball in the NCAA for three years and all those guys want to play in the NFL.

I'm sure that release was also written for an American audience in mind more so than the CFL one. He doesn't plan to be back, I am sure.

I agree.  I think Rourke expected a legit NFL shot coming out of college, and had the confidence to expect he would make the most of it.  The fact that did not transpire would have been like a bucket of cold water, certainly not something he had planned for.  To his credit, he strapped up and did the extra work in the CFL to improve his game and his odds.

Even thought he refers to this as a "detour" I thought the whole of his post was incredibly gracious to both the Lions and the CFL.  That post does nothing but help legitimize the CFL as a viable next step in a pro football career. 
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on January 16, 2023, 03:26:00 PM
My point about the "detour" is that is denigrates the league that got him his deal.  Sure, he thanks the CFL for giving him the tools and training to land an NFL deal, he mentions how BC taught him how to be a professional... but this statement and the "detour" comment made it sound like the CFL was beneath his consideration, and only came here because he was out of options...

Just saying, as a "professional", he really fumbles his exit.  The entire tone of his release said "I;m far too good for the CFL, I won't be back" and was a slap in the face to BC and the CFL, in my honest opinion.  

Personally, I'd far rather have a QB here who is thankful for the opportunity to play, and brings his lunchbox to work.   Rourke did put up some spectacular numbers and plays, but at the end of the day, the last image of him in a CFL uni for me is him crying.  

If/when he flames out in the NFL, I have no doubt that, should he still want to play, every CFL team will open thier wallet for a NAT QB,  In the meantime...

Buh Bye.

Quote from: the paw on January 16, 2023, 03:21:36 PM
Even thought he refers to this as a "detour" I thought the whole of his post was incredibly gracious to both the Lions and the CFL.  That post does nothing but help legitimize the CFL as a viable next step in a pro football career. 

I think that any fluff he says in praise of the CFL is more than negated by the detour comment.  Erase that line, and my opinion might be different.  But in that one sentence he sums up his feeling about the CFL... detour my butt.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 16, 2023, 04:16:22 PM
That's some absurd manufactured outrage.

It could simply be a case a young athlete being both grateful for his opportunity in the CFL while also misspeaking. Detour probably wasn't the ideal choice of wording but fixating on that while ignoring the rest of what he said is not a good look.

Rourke crying at the end of the 2022 West Final has already been covered - ad nauseam. Leave it where it belongs: last year.

You know the old adage about opinions, though.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 16, 2023, 04:34:03 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on January 16, 2023, 03:26:00 PM
My point about the "detour" is that is denigrates the league that got him his deal.  Sure, he thanks the CFL for giving him the tools and training to land an NFL deal, he mentions how BC taught him how to be a professional... but this statement and the "detour" comment made it sound like the CFL was beneath his consideration, and only came here because he was out of options...

Just saying, as a "professional", he really fumbles his exit.  The entire tone of his release said "I;m far too good for the CFL, I won't be back" and was a slap in the face to BC and the CFL, in my honest opinion.  

Personally, I'd far rather have a QB here who is thankful for the opportunity to play, and brings his lunchbox to work.   Rourke did put up some spectacular numbers and plays, but at the end of the day, the last image of him in a CFL uni for me is him crying.  

If/when he flames out in the NFL, I have no doubt that, should he still want to play, every CFL team will open thier wallet for a NAT QB,  In the meantime...

Buh Bye.

I think that any fluff he says in praise of the CFL is more than negated by the detour comment.  Erase that line, and my opinion might be different.  But in that one sentence he sums up his feeling about the CFL... detour my butt.

Very true, but unfortunately that's the reality of the situation now so we might as well accept it as the truth, very few football players grow up with the goal of playing in the CFL and that includes young Canadians.  The NFL is a huge entity, if players establish careers in the CFL it's usually because it was a secondary option.  I would expect a similar statement from Schoen if he is fortunate to receive a generous offer from an NFL team for a roster spot, but as that is unlikely, he will probably make no final comment at all, which is wise.

As Stanley Bryant said recently in his interview after re-signing, he did not know the CFL even existed until after being cut by multiple NFL teams and his agent suggested it.  He's perfectly happy with how it's all worked out, but that's not how he dreamt it originally.  I think in hindsight Stanley would admit it's worked out better than he could have ever imagined, minus the bigger pay cheques.  He's managed to put in a HOF career, earned multiple championship rings and is now in a situation were he can pretty much play football as long as he wants, which is his motivating desire.  All he's gained from his CFL career would never have materialised in the NFL.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Blue In BC on January 16, 2023, 04:43:33 PM
Quote from: theaardvark on January 16, 2023, 03:26:00 PM
My point about the "detour" is that is denigrates the league that got him his deal.  Sure, he thanks the CFL for giving him the tools and training to land an NFL deal, he mentions how BC taught him how to be a professional... but this statement and the "detour" comment made it sound like the CFL was beneath his consideration, and only came here because he was out of options...

Just saying, as a "professional", he really fumbles his exit.  The entire tone of his release said "I;m far too good for the CFL, I won't be back" and was a slap in the face to BC and the CFL, in my honest opinion.  

Personally, I'd far rather have a QB here who is thankful for the opportunity to play, and brings his lunchbox to work.   Rourke did put up some spectacular numbers and plays, but at the end of the day, the last image of him in a CFL uni for me is him crying.  

If/when he flames out in the NFL, I have no doubt that, should he still want to play, every CFL team will open thier wallet for a NAT QB,  In the meantime...

Buh Bye.

I think that any fluff he says in praise of the CFL is more than negated by the detour comment.  Erase that line, and my opinion might be different.  But in that one sentence he sums up his feeling about the CFL... detour my butt.

Geez. You see players in all sports " crying " after losing a game. You see it at both the college and pro levels. No point making more out of it than exists.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blue_or_die on January 16, 2023, 06:32:50 PM
Re: "unforeseen detour", I'm my rolling my eyes at the "unforeseen" part more so than the "detour" part.

To absolutely think you'd get an NFL shot when you look at the hundreds and hundreds of top college prospects who go on to flip burgers right after their last year of eligibility...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: The Zipp on January 16, 2023, 08:21:00 PM
If he ever comes back to the CFL...bring the "detour" signs to the stadium...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on January 16, 2023, 09:23:38 PM
Quote from: blue_or_die on January 16, 2023, 06:32:50 PM
Re: "unforeseen detour", I'm my rolling my eyes at the "unforeseen" part more so than the "detour" part.

To absolutely think you'd get an NFL shot when you look at the hundreds and hundreds of top college prospects who go on to flip burgers right after their last year of eligibility...
I agree he is a bit cocky but I guess you need that. Plus he is young. Young equals stupid sometimes.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 16, 2023, 09:30:36 PM
Quote from: The Zipp on January 16, 2023, 08:21:00 PM
If he ever comes back to the CFL...bring the "detour" signs to the stadium...

Detour Part II. ;D
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blueraid on January 16, 2023, 09:41:14 PM
Have to agree on Rourkes choice of words....that 'unforeseen detour' opened the door for him in the states....IF he was a walk on down there would he have been given the chance he has now???Hard to say but I think 'detour' is off the mark, especially when I remember Mike Reilly saying that the Leo's were in 'good hands' for the foreseeable future when the Lions signed him...Sometimes miss spoken words can come back to haunt
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bomb squad on January 16, 2023, 10:12:20 PM
Quote from: blueraid on January 16, 2023, 09:41:14 PM
Have to agree on Rourkes choice of words....that 'unforeseen detour' opened the door for him in the states....IF he was a walk on down there would he have been given the chance he has now???Hard to say but I think 'detour' is off the mark, especially when I remember Mike Reilly saying that the Leo's were in 'good hands' for the foreseeable future when the Lions signed him...Sometimes miss spoken words can come back to haunt

To be fair, he did say "unforeseen but necessary". And I don't believe he meant anything derogatory towards the CFL. But I agree "detour" was a poor choice of word to use.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: theaardvark on January 17, 2023, 01:03:08 AM
unforseen and detour are both negative... for a guy who knew fully about the CFL, there was nothing "unforseen" about his stint in the CFL.. if he didn't have it on his radar, he was both delusional and narcisistic. 

As for it being a "detour",  it is dismissive of the league, the team and the fans...

Eliminate all that, and just say that he was grateful for the opportunities BC extended to him, and the love given to him by the fans, and that his time in the CFL will not be forgottten...  if not for the CFL, he doesn't get a shot at the NFL...
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 17, 2023, 01:19:28 PM
Unforeseen is defined as unexpected, unanticipated, or unpredicted. There's nothing negative about it. Rourke clearly had a certain expectation of himself and when that didn't materialize, he had to do something else in order to try and get back on track. The end.

Turn off the spin machine, man.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: bluengold204 on January 17, 2023, 01:25:03 PM
Some of you need to calm down, you?re acting like he just insulted your firstborn lol
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Jesse on January 17, 2023, 01:40:42 PM
Quote from: bluengold204 on January 17, 2023, 01:25:03 PM
Some of you need to calm down, you?re acting like he just insulted your firstborn lol


Meh.

He's entitled to his opinion of the CFL and we're entitled to have an opinion of his comments.

I think it was an unnecessary comment and revealed a side of Rourke that I personally don't like that much. But it ultimately doesn't matter.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 17, 2023, 05:07:57 PM
Quote from: bluengold204 on January 17, 2023, 01:25:03 PM
Some of you need to calm down, you?re acting like he just insulted your firstborn lol

I hope the ginger enjoys Jacksonville in July.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 17, 2023, 05:22:59 PM
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on January 16, 2023, 09:23:38 PM
I agree he is a bit cocky but I guess you need that. Plus he is young. Young equals stupid sometimes.
agree....the comment was ill advised and displayed a lack of judgement.    Nonetheless, despite his obvious faux pas, I wish him well and believe he will thrive down there....perhaps not immediately however over the long run.   
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: blueandgoldguy on January 17, 2023, 09:50:40 PM
Well that signing is nothing but bad news for the CFL.  The quality of quarterbacking in this league is as low as I can remember since I started following the league as a kid in the 80s and 90s.  We have what appeared to be a generational Canadian talent who would have likely been the face of the league for the next 10 years and likely the best Canadian player since Russ Jackson, would have provided a significant boost to declining tv ratings, desperately needed attendance boosts in BC and, to a lesser extent, other CFL cities...and we get a whopping half of season and poof he is gone.

At least Warren Moon and Doug Flutie were in the CFL for 6 and 8 years respectively.  You know, enough time to actually get to enjoy them.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 18, 2023, 08:07:11 AM
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on January 17, 2023, 09:50:40 PM
Well that signing is nothing but bad news for the CFL.  The quality of quarterbacking in this league is as low as I can remember since I started following the league as a kid in the 80s and 90s.  We have what appeared to be a generational Canadian talent who would have likely been the face of the league for the next 10 years and likely the best Canadian player since Russ Jackson, would have provided a significant boost to declining tv ratings, desperately needed attendance boosts in BC and, to a lesser extent, other CFL cities...and we get a whopping half of season and poof he is gone.

At least Warren Moon and Doug Flutie were in the CFL for 6 and 8 years respectively.  You know, enough time to actually get to enjoy them.

100% this.  As for Rourke's comment was dumb.  If he "misspoke" then he can always tweet (or whatever) a clarification.

Dude could have been nearly God in the CFL.  Now he'll be nobody in the NFL, and come back in 3 years with his tail tucked between his legs.  I hope for his sake he doesn't lose his mojo down there and come back up to suck for 1 year and retire.

P.S. My young son has never been excited by any QB in the league, until Rourke.  He loved Rourke and always talked about him.  Likes him more than Zach.  How many other young people across Canada felt the same?  Honestly, I think the CFL should have found a way to keep this kid for the good of the CFL.  I have no idea how.  But it's sad we can't pay a #1 QB the same as a #3 NFL QB who will see 10 snaps a year.
Title: Re: BC Lions / Nathan Rourke discussion
Post by: dd on January 18, 2023, 06:04:58 PM
Rourke is just an immature kid, who lacks professionalism when dealing with the media. Sometimes he'd be best served not saying anything at all.