Blue Bombers Forum

The Extra Point => Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum => Topic started by: TecnoGenius on December 16, 2021, 05:10:50 AM



Title: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 16, 2021, 05:10:50 AM
Did anyone else notice that HAM did a stellar job making their OL better since 2019?  They really kept the 2 J's and the interior at bay all game.  Night and day better than in 2019.

We did manage 3 sacks, but not the crazy forced fumbles and hurries we did all game in 2019.

Credit to HAM getting their OL up to snuff to block our pass rush.  We even brought a lot of blitz pressure, but didn't achieve too much more than average.  Even VanTurnzteyl was holding his own against Willie.

I think we adjusted by bringing more men more often, as well as dropping the DE's back for potential bat-downs.  We still managed to make the QB uncomfortable.  They never seemed to have a lot of time.  Masoli does get rid of the ball faster and run more, so that probably helped the OL.

But we never got to see just cheetah after cheetah after cheetah like 2019.  Our LBs and DBs got to make more of an impact this time around.  HAM did basically everything right to overcome the problems of 2019, but still came up short.


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: DM83 on December 16, 2021, 05:26:48 AM
I did not think that was an issue. They flushed the starter out of the game, and contained Massoli.
If anything. The Bombers O line didn't fare as well vs a def line. As yards on the rush were harder to come by, and Zach was hurried.
As is the identity of the team, the Bombers run game wore down the Cats D-line with our running game.

That's called football.


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on December 16, 2021, 12:03:38 PM
Cats lost but played well. Both their lines played good. It seemed our long passing game was available but wind and pressure mostly took it away. Credit where it's due Cats were much better than 2019


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: The Fresh Prince Of Belair, MB on December 16, 2021, 03:55:38 PM
Cats lost but played well. Both their lines played good. It seemed our long passing game was available but wind and pressure mostly took it away. Credit where it's due Cats were much better than 2019

Yes, their D-line made our O-line look pretty ordinary in the first half. It was strange to see given how dominant our O-line was all year. Harris was contained and plenty of Pressure on Zac.


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: Pete on December 16, 2021, 04:42:22 PM
One thing that should be taken into account is that Hamilton's offensive line was embarrassed in 2019, and the level of motivation was so much higher (especially at home). They went into the game with much more determination and something to prove than our defensive line. I've always thought that this is a huge factor in line play.
 There's also something to be said that they expended so much effort in the first three quarters on both sides of the ball that by the forth quarter there wasn't enough gas  the tank to stop the bombers.


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: the.inkster on December 16, 2021, 05:16:58 PM
I agree Hamilton had much better play out of both O and D lines this time around.
On another note, does the CFL keep track of pass knockdowns? I was amazed how many we managed this game!


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: The Fresh Prince Of Belair, MB on December 16, 2021, 05:20:43 PM
I agree Hamilton had much better play out of both O and D lines this time around.
On another note, does the CFL keep track of pass knockdowns? I was amazed how many we managed this game!

I counted 4 or 5 batted down or deflected by our D-line alone, I would guess there were probably 4-5 more from the secondary.


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: pjrocksmb on December 16, 2021, 05:59:38 PM
They played well and are a good club


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 17, 2021, 01:36:22 AM
One thing that should be taken into account is that Hamilton's offensive line was embarrassed in 2019, and the level of motivation was so much higher (especially at home). They went into the game with much more determination and something to prove than our defensive line. I've always thought that this is a huge factor in line play.
 There's also something to be said that they expended so much effort in the first three quarters on both sides of the ball that by the forth quarter there wasn't enough gas  the tank to stop the bombers.

Oh ya.  Better believe HAM's OL had something to prove.  I bet Coach O spent a ton of energy making sure that OL unit was going to be tops.  They really redeemed themselves.  Makes you wonder what the heck happened in 2019 with mostly the same guys.  Maybe doing maxpro all year made it so they forgot how to play 5 man OL by the time GC rolled around...

As for the gas tank: I think it was important, and smart, that Buck kept sending AH33 smashing into the lines for 3-5 YPC, even though it appeared to be a losing proposition.  That and the absolutely useless Demski sweeps kept that HAM front 7 honest.  It was pivotal in opening up the Zach tempo pass attack in the 4th, and making sure they weren't fresh in OT when we let Harris run all over them.

In the GDT there were a couple of calls for yanking Harris by halftime! ... you can go see my replies there  ;) ;) :D :D


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 17, 2021, 01:39:42 AM
And does anyone have any further info on Evans neck?  Rumors here stating that he had odd tape on his neck before the game, and that he may have had a previous injury.

Clearly neither the Willie whack nor the tackle whacks were enough to injure a neck like that.  But which whack hurt him more?  I think the tackle and weird twist / turf whack is what triggered it.

Watching Dane on the sidelines later in the game it was clear he was having major neck problems.  I've had that once before where you can only look straight ahead.  You want to see beside you, you need to turn your whole body.  Any neck movement hurts like crazy.  But it's usually not something that happens immediately due to an acute injury.


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: oskee woot woot on December 17, 2021, 02:54:59 AM
They played well and are a good club

They are a good club, and have been a good club for the better part of 8 years. However, they have never been a 'great club'. They always seem to have that one glaring weakness.

They have the benefit of playing in the East where a 10-8 or 9-9 record can get you first. They play well at home, even against Western teams, so they often get far into the playoffs, perhaps even to the Grey Cup. And we all know that in one game, anything could happen, no matter how freaky. It happened for Toronto in '17. Or Ottawa in '16. Unfortunately, it just doesn't seem to go well for Hamilton, and their weaknesses usually come through the worst during those games (porous line, stupid penalties, inconsistent QB play, etc...).

I made a major breakthrough today. I've gone from 'gutwrenching Grey Cup heartbreak' phase to 'Wow, I was just in attendance at one of the greatest Grey Cup games ever played!' phase.


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 17, 2021, 04:37:12 AM
Unfortunately, it just doesn't seem to go well for Hamilton, and their weaknesses usually come through the worst during those games (porous line, stupid penalties, inconsistent QB play, etc...).

I made a major breakthrough today. I've gone from 'gutwrenching Grey Cup heartbreak' phase to 'Wow, I was just in attendance at one of the greatest Grey Cup games ever played!' phase.

Good for you!  Maybe go over to catfan's and help him recover that quickly!  ;)

If I was a HAM fan, those penalties near the end would probably be the thing that upset me the most.  The pass knockdowns or stuffed runs are just the result of talent vs talent, and good plays.  But the penalties are just dumb.  It's just a lack of intelligence, self-control, game awareness, and care for your team brothers.  That would anger me.

What if they hadn't taken the offside in OT, that holding, that tourist hit UR... they played so well they needed just a little boost to go over the top.  That would frustrate me the most.

Thank goodness for us MOS preaches penalty control over, possibly, all else.  How many years has MOS led the league in penalty yards?  How many games did we win the penalty yard stat?

P.S. Your lines were amazing, don't fault your lines.  Your QB was simply amazing given the circumstances... maybe the best "backup" QB to ever come off the bench mid-game and get that close to a GC win?


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: oskee woot woot on December 18, 2021, 03:35:59 AM
Good for you!  Maybe go over to catfan's and help him recover that quickly!  ;)

If I was a HAM fan, those penalties near the end would probably be the thing that upset me the most.  The pass knockdowns or stuffed runs are just the result of talent vs talent, and good plays.  But the penalties are just dumb.  It's just a lack of intelligence, self-control, game awareness, and care for your team brothers.  That would anger me.

What if they hadn't taken the offside in OT, that holding, that tourist hit UR... they played so well they needed just a little boost to go over the top.  That would frustrate me the most.

Thank goodness for us MOS preaches penalty control over, possibly, all else.  How many years has MOS led the league in penalty yards?  How many games did we win the penalty yard stat?

P.S. Your lines were amazing, don't fault your lines.  Your QB was simply amazing given the circumstances... maybe the best "backup" QB to ever come off the bench mid-game and get that close to a GC win?


Yes, I agree. Our QB play and line play were very good and kept us in the game. My examples about weaknesses (porous line, stupid penalties, etc...) were more broad examples of things that have plagued us in Grey Cups past, not necessarily this one. One thing I forgot to mention as a weakness with the Cats this year (not sure if it's a weakness as much as it's a trend) is the tendency to allow the opposing team back into the game after a big lead. It happened two games in a row back in October against TO and MTL. We had good-sized leads in the fourth and lost both games (both at home). I'm wondering if because of those games, they were at a psychological disadvantage even though they had a good lead in the 4th in the Grey Cup?


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on December 18, 2021, 05:32:33 AM
They played well and are a good club
agreed and well coached....


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: road griller on December 18, 2021, 05:50:42 AM
They were playing the knockdown/contain and not the pressure rush.  And they were still dominating on the line. Simply the best.


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 18, 2021, 07:42:19 AM
They were playing the knockdown/contain and not the pressure rush.  And they were still dominating on the line. Simply the best.

Were they though?  Even from the beginning before they knew how good HAM's OL was going to play?  I haven't rewatched the whole game yet, so I haven't had time to dissect what our DL was doing.

If you're right, that might be some smart, coy planning by Hall... HAM works like mad leading up to the game to stop our pass rush and then we don't bother!  Hehe.

However, I did notice during the game that when Masoli first came in, and for a while after, we were blitzing a lot more.  I guess Hall figured Masoli wasn't ready and could get rattled.  It's the smart assumption, but HAM beat it for the most part.


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: road griller on December 18, 2021, 07:36:30 PM
Were they though?  Even from the beginning before they knew how good HAM's OL was going to play?  I haven't rewatched the whole game yet, so I haven't had time to dissect what our DL was doing.

If you're right, that might be some smart, coy planning by Hall... HAM works like mad leading up to the game to stop our pass rush and then we don't bother!  Hehe.

However, I did notice during the game that when Masoli first came in, and for a while after, we were blitzing a lot more.  I guess Hall figured Masoli wasn't ready and could get rattled.  It's the smart assumption, but HAM beat it for the most part.


They were trying to knock the ball down a lot, remember the play where Evans was hurt?  Willy hit him on the head (by accident) trying to knock the pass down instead of going for the sack.  I noticed other players on the line doing it as well on several plays. 


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: dd on December 19, 2021, 12:43:09 AM
They were trying to knock the ball doen a lot because they weren?t getting home. I give full marks to the Hamilton O line, they did a great job on our D line but by th same token th D line played well, it was a war out there.


Title: Re: HAM OL stopped our J's
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 19, 2021, 01:27:50 AM
They were trying to knock the ball doen a lot because they weren?t getting home. I give full marks to the Hamilton O line, they did a great job on our D line but by th same token th D line played well, it was a war out there.

They did get more aggressive on the pass rush when Masoli first came in.

Strange how "we weren't getting home" yet we dominated the Sacks (3 to 1) and Knockdowns (5 to 1) stats.  Maybe we are too spoiled with our DL that we consider that an "off day".  :D :D :D   But even though we rarely "got home", the J's and interior certainly kept the QBs on their toes and uncomfortable, especially early.  You could tell the QBs were never happy in the pocket.  (Contrast with Zach, cool as a cucumber behind our guys, even when they were being hosed with stunts.)

Maybe part of our "backing off" had to do with knowing that HAM must have been prioritizing getting the ball out quickly.  Evans (then Masoli) weren't hanging onto it for an hour like Evans did in the 2019 GC.  I don't think they ever took any real deep shots or many double-move routes.

In fact, HAM almost won this GC with their run and screen game.  Quite a surprise, really, but maybe expected knowing that HAM wasn't going to repeat the 2019 mistakes.  This game was kind of like the 2019 game turned upside down... but that is the smart chess move.