I voted, lets get everyone out there to the polls... I like Australia, where you get fined if you don't vote...
That's just at the federal level, Aardvark. It's a $20 fine and is both good and bad. There is a lot of informal voting in Australia which is people just showing up to vote and not filling it out properly. There are also a lot of completely uninformed votes, as it's technically compulsory. If you cannot vote for a legitimate reason, you are forced to go through a process to get the fine rescinded. Even though the turnout is sky high compared to North American standards, the last federal election saw a record low for the country.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on September 10, 2019, 03:32:12 PM
That's just at the federal level, Aardvark. It's a $20 fine and is both good and bad. There is a lot of informal voting in Australia which is people just showing up to vote and not filling it out properly. There are also a lot of completely uninformed votes, as it's technically compulsory. If you cannot vote for a legitimate reason, you are forced to go through a process to get the fine rescinded. Even though the turnout is sky high compared to North American standards, the last federal election saw a record low for the country.
I would argue that spoiling a ballot is a legitimate form of voting
Please ensure no political views or discussions take place in this thread.
Quote from: ModAdmin on September 10, 2019, 04:56:13 PM
Please ensure no political views or discussions take place in this thread.
I voting / not voting a political issue? ;) I always say, if you don't vote, you have no ability to voice an opinion on anything the govertnment does until the next election, when you finally decide to go out and vote...
Quote from: theaardvark on September 10, 2019, 08:05:53 PM
I voting / not voting a political issue? ;) I always say, if you don't vote, you have no ability to voice an opinion on anything the govertnment does until the next election, when you finally decide to go out and vote...
No - voting/not voting it is not a political issue, I am saying to everyone don't let this thread evolve into a political discussion (who you support and why).
Quote from: theaardvark on September 10, 2019, 08:05:53 PM
I voting / not voting a political issue? ;) I always say, if you don't vote, you have no ability to voice an opinion on anything the govertnment does until the next election, when you finally decide to go out and vote...
The right to vote is a person's choice. If they wish not to exercise that right, that's their choice. I can see how some choose not to; the political landscape these days doesn't inspire.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on September 11, 2019, 02:44:09 PM
The right to vote is a person's choice. If they wish not to exercise that right, that's their choice. I can see how some choose not to; the political landscape these days doesn't inspire.
If anything, your argument is in support of actually voting, and more, getting involved in the political process which ends in voting.
We do have the right in a democracy to vote. But more than the right, it is an obligation. The fewer voices involved in electing a government, the less representitve it is. If you do not at least exercise your responsibility to vote, your voice cannot be heard.
"My vote wouldn't have mattered anyway" is a sentiment too often heard, and with 42% of voters actually exercising their franchise, you can darned sure bet that the potential to change the outcome of the election though voter turnout alone was there.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 11, 2019, 04:24:26 PM
If anything, your argument is in support of actually voting, and more, getting involved in the political process which ends in voting.
We do have the right in a democracy to vote. But more than the right, it is an obligation. The fewer voices involved in electing a government, the less representitve it is. If you do not at least exercise your responsibility to vote, your voice cannot be heard.
"My vote wouldn't have mattered anyway" is a sentiment too often heard, and with 42% of voters actually exercising their franchise, you can darned sure bet that the potential to change the outcome of the election though voter turnout alone was there.
No, it isn't. My argument supports what I said: having the right to choose. If a voter isn't inspired to vote based on the candidates in play, that's his/her choice to not vote and I support it fully.
Voting is not an obligation, either. And perhaps one could argue the issue is the representation currently in the fold does little to nothing to inspire people to vote. When you consider roughly half of the voting populace cast a ballot in yesterday's election, it's pretty telling how disenfranchised said populace is at the present time with who's trying to get their votes.
The potential to change the outcome of an election is sort of irrelevant, anyway. Voter apathy seems to be at all-time high and I'm not surprised in the slightest when, as I said in my previous post, one takes a glance at the political landscape.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 11, 2019, 04:24:26 PM
If anything, your argument is in support of actually voting, and more, getting involved in the political process which ends in voting.
We do have the right in a democracy to vote. But more than the right, it is an obligation. The fewer voices involved in electing a government, the less representitve it is. If you do not at least exercise your responsibility to vote, your voice cannot be heard.
"My vote wouldn't have mattered anyway" is a sentiment too often heard, and with 42% of voters actually exercising their franchise, you can darned sure bet that the potential to change the outcome of the election though voter turnout alone was there.
Right or wrong, nearly half the population doesn't agree with you.
QuoteVoter turnout just over 55%, down from 57% in 2016 Manitoba election
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-election-2019-voter-turnout-1.5272367
Since I have no skin in the game in this particular instance, here's my stance on voting.
Originally I was fairly apathetic in my approach to voting, specifically federally because by the time I cast my vote, the decisions pretty much done, being in the West and all. But after a few results which I wasn't particularly pleased about, and other international results which proved that majority apathy can lead specific interest group success (i.e. Trump, Brexit), I have become an active voter, because even if I don't get the result I want, I at least raised my voice in that regard.
And it also feels good when you vote for the winning side. I quite enjoyed being part of the populace to escort Rachel from the Leg.
I guess my point is, with so many people complaining about the gov't and unhappy with the service they are getting, not voting seems a bad argument.
If you are uninspired by the current regime, then change it. If alternate viewpoints are what you would like to see, then inspire them to inspire change by voting. Even if you are in a riding where it is unlikely your vote will be in the winning column, your vote for the opposition is encouragement for them to keep up their fight. Also, in many elections, losing votes decide many things, including funding for candidates, both from gov't and from their parties.
Positive change rarely happens overnight, it takes time, effort and commitment. If you can't commit to the 5 minutes (took me less, actually) that it takes to vote, then the change you desire will never happen.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 11, 2019, 04:24:26 PM
If anything, your argument is in support of actually voting, and more, getting involved in the political process which ends in voting.
We do have the right in a democracy to vote. But more than the right, it is an obligation. The fewer voices involved in electing a government, the less representitve it is. If you do not at least exercise your responsibility to vote, your voice cannot be heard.
"My vote wouldn't have mattered anyway" is a sentiment too often heard, and with 42% of voters actually exercising their franchise, you can darned sure bet that the potential to change the outcome of the election though voter turnout alone was there.
When people say, "my vote wouldn't have mattered anyway", they're not talking about their ability to sway the election results, they're referring to the fact that they don't care who is in power, because they don't see a difference regardless.
Quote from: Jesse on September 11, 2019, 05:43:19 PM
When people say, "my vote wouldn't have mattered anyway", they're not talking about their ability to sway the election results, they're referring to the fact that they don't care who is in power, because they don't see a difference regardless.
Maybe sometimes, but I think that when most people say that, they are usually referring to the fact that they live in a constituency that very heavily leans one direction and so their vote would not change that outcome. The only thing that could change that outcome would be more people voting but that assumes they would vote in other direction, but the person in question knows that neither of those things will happen in reality.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on September 11, 2019, 04:34:55 PM
No, it isn't. My argument supports what I said: having the right to choose. If a voter isn't inspired to vote based on the candidates in play, that's his/her choice to not vote and I support it fully.
Voting is not an obligation, either. And perhaps one could argue the issue is the representation currently in the fold does little to nothing to inspire people to vote. When you consider roughly half of the voting populace cast a ballot in yesterday's election, it's pretty telling how disenfranchised said populace is at the present time with who's trying to get their votes.
The potential to change the outcome of an election is sort of irrelevant, anyway. Voter apathy seems to be at all-time high and I'm not surprised in the slightest when, as I said in my previous post, one takes a glance at the political landscape.
While voting is not an obligation it really should. If you don't like any of the candidates and what they offer you can go down to your designated voting station and inform them that you refuse to vote for any of the candidates. This is counted separately and at least keeps a track record of those who are fed up with all parties and want a change in the system.
Quote from: Jesse on September 11, 2019, 05:43:19 PM
When people say, "my vote wouldn't have mattered anyway", they're not talking about their ability to sway the election results, they're referring to the fact that they don't care who is in power, because they don't see a difference regardless.
Bingo.
Quote from: bluengold204 on September 11, 2019, 07:04:02 PM
While voting is not an obligation it really should. If you don't like any of the candidates and what they offer you can go down to your designated voting station and inform them that you refuse to vote for any of the candidates. This is counted separately and at least keeps a track record of those who are fed up with all parties and want a change in the system.
In other words, it wouldn't make a difference. And forcing the public to vote by making it mandatory is a terrible idea.
Quote from: blue_or_die on September 11, 2019, 06:15:20 PM
Maybe sometimes, but I think that when most people say that, they are usually referring to the fact that they live in a constituency that very heavily leans one direction and so their vote would not change that outcome. The only thing that could change that outcome would be more people voting but that assumes they would vote in other direction, but the person in question knows that neither of those things will happen in reality.
Good point. That's true as well.
unless you live in the USA were you're presidential vote literally doesn't count as the president is elected via electoral votes, not popular citizen vote... generally, the electoral does follow the wishes indicated by the popular vote, but not always... more than 1 president put into office that wasn't the voting wishes of the voters...
Quote from: 66 Chevelle on September 12, 2019, 02:05:54 AM
unless you live in the USA were you're presidential vote literally doesn't count as the president is elected via electoral votes, not popular citizen vote... generally, the electoral does follow the wishes indicated by the popular vote, but not always... more than 1 president put into office that wasn't the voting wishes of the voters...
It's not entirely different in Canada. You vote for the candidate representing the constituency in which you live, and the government is formed by the party winning the most constituencies. So if I vote in a direction that is vastly different than the majority in my constituency, even if everyone else in the election outside my constituency votes with me, my constituency elects a seat that I do not agree with and so my vote effectively has no influence. For as much flack as the electoral college gets in the US, it's not like all other governments that follow a British parliamentary model elect everyone by popular vote as some might believe.
I'm 64 and have voted in every election at every level since age 18. Once when I lived in a rural
area, I shovelled my car through a blizzard to vote. Another time I went when I was sick with strep throat
and a high fever.
I feel it is my responsibility as a citizen to vote. In some countries, people have given their lives
to try to get the right to vote. I don't take it for granted.
If you go to a citizenship ceremony, they clearly state that it is your responsibility as a Canadian
citizen to vote.
Personally, I don't understand people who don't vote. Perhaps they haven't studied history
or they don't value freedom and democracy?
Don't thumb your nose at this precious privilege. Go and vote. It's very easy to do in this country.
It only costs a few minutes of your time. Just do it!
Gotta vote