I couldn't really tell live, and I haven't watched the PVR yet, but it's pretty undeniable the D played better than vs EDM. The only change was Nichols out, Texada in. Vaval was also in a heck of a lot.
Do we have a DB controversy? Regardless of how Texada did, does it look like Vaval has won a ton more reps on D? And if Texada lit things up, will we now keep Nichols on the IR?
And then how much better when Kramdi returns, hopefully in his "game 7".
Kramdi goes to safety and addresses our #2 weakness in our secondary, Nichols was by far the #1 weakness, and it isn't a controversy, next man up is better than Nichols so Nichols is out
Quote from: dd on August 29, 2026, 06:46:15 AMKramdi goes to safety and addresses our #2 weakness in our secondary, Nichols was by far the #1 weakness, and it isn't a controversy, next man up is better than Nichols so Nichols is out
On every other team, maybe. A Mafia-controlled team? Don't put money on it.
I think with the Griffin injury the better spot for Kramdi is platooning him with Smith. Smith is probably the better player but younger guys need a bit of time adapting to the full season rigors and Smith went from not playing much to being leaned on pretty heavily.
Nichols and Moxey can both be released with our thanks although I'd let Nichols ride this season out on the IR. He's earned it.
Woodbey also makes mistakes out there, and missed a couple of tackles.
Nichols got moved to the 6-game after being scratched so might not be much of a controversy going forward
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 29, 2026, 12:41:13 PMI think with the Griffin injury the better spot for Kramdi is platooning him with Smith. Smith is probably the better player but younger guys need a bit of time adapting to the full season rigors and Smith went from not playing much to being leaned on pretty heavily.
Nichols and Moxey can both be released with our thanks although I'd let Nichols ride this season out on the IR. He's earned it.
As we know he won't be able to practice on the 6 game IR. So he'll be out for at least next week. His injury may have made the decision moot and he may well spend several games on the IR, possibly the full 6 games.
That's a tough way to potentially finish his career in Winnipeg.
So does Nichols get credit for this mtl game? So he has only 5 more to go to get the sms savings?
Forget my original premise regarding Texada... I'm past halftime on my rewatch and I don't think he was out there even once. It seems to be all vaval and major in that configuration we ran last week.
Texada would seem to just be injury depth, nothing more.
So the question isn't Nichols vs Texada, it's Nichols vs vaval. And vaval is winning.
Dude is flying around out there, fastest closing speed and hard hitting. Don't think I've seen him miss either.
Puts us in a big conundrum though!! If he's starting CB, and he gets hurt somehow, we're out 2 important star players essentially!
Quote from: Tecno on August 29, 2026, 02:20:37 PMSo does Nichols get credit for this mtl game? So he has only 5 more to go to get the sms savings?
I don't remember how much advance money he got but there would be some SMS savings but nothing to worry about. As I mentioned we need to find another DB for the PR. NFL cuts happen this weekend so there will be many players potentially available.
Quote from: Tecno on August 29, 2026, 02:24:45 PMForget my original premise regarding Texada... I'm past halftime on my rewatch and I don't think he was out there even once. It seems to be all vaval and major in that configuration we ran last week.
Texada would seem to just be injury depth, nothing more.
So the question isn't Nichols vs Texada, it's Nichols vs vaval. And vaval is winning.
Dude is flying around out there, fastest closing speed and hard hitting. Don't think I've seen him miss either.
Puts us in a big conundrum though!! If he's starting CB, and he gets hurt somehow, we're out 2 important star players essentially!
Texada was on the field often and in one instance was covering Philpot about 30 yards down field.
I'm ok with Moxey. Dude has whiffed bad on a handful of tackles, but he's also been in the right place more often than not, and had a few good disruptions.
Surely the tackling is correctable. There just be something that can be done.
This seems like Deja vu... Who's the last guy we had who was like this? Maybe going back a few years...
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 29, 2026, 02:27:59 PMTexada was on the field often and in one instance was covering Philpot about 30 yards down field.
When? I'm at the second and 30 part of the 3rd. I've been looking and haven't seen him. However, tsn makes it very hard to track every d set... As you are well aware of.
So you think he was in on passing down set with the cover 2 and cover 3 looks? Whose spot was he taking, if any? Was he looking competent?
I'll be able to find what you saw, I'm sure. Just haven't yet.
Texada covered Philpot like a blanket on a deep route, he looked very comfortable in spot duty
Vaval looks great but he isn't out there all the time
We played an extra LB at times and they did very well (Woodbey, Ayers).
Too bad about Nichols on the 6 game but looks like next man up working
Moxey is not great but reasonable and is going nowhere
At times the secondary looked a little confused pre snap and guys moving around and yapping a little late
A statement game for the D
Jones had a monster game
DL ate
Willie telling father time to f off
Vaval came on at CB with Williams moving the HB.
Texada came on for Moxey late in the game, I believe.
I'm not comfortable with Vaval playing a ton of D..some yes, but I do not want him injured. You know how we were without a good returner. Am I wrong to feel this way? I'll admit, I have not paid attention to how he is on defence. I did like Texada last night though.
Quote from: Tecno on August 29, 2026, 02:34:14 PMWhen? I'm at the second and 30 part of the 3rd. I've been looking and haven't seen him. However, tsn makes it very hard to track every d set... As you are well aware of.
So you think he was in on passing down set with the cover 2 and cover 3 looks? Whose spot was he taking, if any? Was he looking competent?
I'll be able to find what you saw, I'm sure. Just haven't yet.
I gave you the example of great coverage on Philpot. A couple of other times he was also at CB. Who he replaced or exactly why is less obvious, but he was on the field making plays.
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 29, 2026, 05:40:31 PMI gave you the example of great coverage on Philpot. A couple of other times he was also at CB. Who he replaced or exactly why is less obvious, but he was on the field making plays.
What number was Texada?
Quote from: tlf on August 29, 2026, 03:41:12 PMI'm not comfortable with Vaval playing a ton of D..some yes, but I do not want him injured. You know how we were without a good returner. Am I wrong to feel this way? I'll admit, I have not paid attention to how he is on defence. I did like Texada last night though.
You aren't wrong but football is a risky sport. Vaval played a few games at CB last year and I thought he looked pretty good. His speed can make up for coverage errors.
I'm not saying he's the next T. Ford, but what if he is capable of becoming a top CB. A player on the field as a starter on defence could be more important than a returner.
I also mentioned that we haven't seen what Womack can do as a returner. Nobody knew who Vaval was before he joined the team as the primary returner.
Now neither of those questions / statements may pan out that way. OTOH what are our current alternatives?
I'd prefer not having to use him on defence but he is an outstanding athlete. Let's hold our breath and see how he does against the Riders and / or until we have a different choice.
Rosters are too small to have a dedicated returner. They should be fulfilling another role.
Quote from: Jesse on August 30, 2026, 01:42:17 AMRosters are too small to have a dedicated returner. They should be fulfilling another role.
They do as in game injury replacement depth. Only a few returners see a lot of action otherwise.
Quote from: Jesse on August 30, 2026, 01:42:17 AMRosters are too small to have a dedicated returner. They should be fulfilling another role.
And yet when a team has a top-3 RET they are put in return-only (or at least return-mostly) duty. It's been this way for years in the CFL. Just like you find roster space for a top-3 K (wasting a DI), you do the same for returner.
Quote from: tlf on August 29, 2026, 03:41:12 PMI'm not comfortable with Vaval playing a ton of D..some yes, but I do not want him injured. You know how we were without a good returner. Am I wrong to feel this way? I'll admit, I have not paid attention to how he is on defence. I did like Texada last night though.
Vaval has been remarkable at CB. I think he has rapidly earning his way into starting, in a way that even though no one wants to do it, you just gotta because he's so good.
Ever since he got here MOS has been touting his appetite for learning and ability to absorb and apply the coaching. That's a Mafia-type player for sure. Texada will have to prove to be at least 75% as good to earn the spot.
Quote from: Tecno on August 30, 2026, 07:05:19 AMAnd yet when a team has a top-3 RET they are put in return-only (or at least return-mostly) duty. It's been this way for years in the CFL. Just like you find roster space for a top-3 K (wasting a DI), you do the same for returner.
It seems like the top guys are the ones who are pressed into double duty, actually. Teams don't want to waste their top talent.
Chad Owens and Chris Williams come to mind.
Brandon Alexander told a story on the pregame. 2020, Gauthier running down Nick Marshall on a punt return. Shouldn't happen right? Well Nick Marshall was playing db and had covered 2 long routes just before the kick and admitted he didn't have enough left to make the end zone. That likely cost Sask a Grey Cup trip, we won it that year.
https://www.bluebombers.com/2020/11/09/10-pays-made-champion-unsung-hero-emerges/
I am 100% in favor of specialization.
BTW, congrats to Brandon Alexander on his new job, leaving the Bombers to teach school back home.
Quote from: Waffler on August 30, 2026, 03:50:53 PMBrandon Alexander told a story on the pregame. 2020, Gauthier running down Nick Marshall on a punt return. Shouldn't happen right? Well Nick Marshall was playing db and had covered 2 long routes just before the kick and admitted he didn't have enough left to make the end zone. That likely cost Sask a Grey Cup trip, we won it that year.
https://www.bluebombers.com/2020/11/09/10-pays-made-champion-unsung-hero-emerges/
I am 100% in favor of specialization.
BTW, congrats to Brandon Alexander on his new job, leaving the Bombers to teach school back home.
Alternatively, maybe the STC should have been aware of that and had someone else back there - it's kind of his only job.
Quote from: Jesse on August 30, 2026, 03:28:15 PMIt seems like the top guys are the ones who are pressed into double duty, actually. Teams don't want to waste their top talent.
Chad Owens and Chris Williams come to mind.
Kevin Fogg for awhile.
Quote from: Tecno on August 30, 2026, 07:16:36 AMVaval has been remarkable at CB. I think he has rapidly earning his way into starting, in a way that even though no one wants to do it, you just gotta because he's so good.
Ever since he got here MOS has been touting his appetite for learning and ability to absorb and apply the coaching. That's a Mafia-type player for sure. Texada will have to prove to be at least 75% as good to earn the spot.
I wouldn't be surprised if Vaval asked for $150k on his next contract, if only for his return work, being a returner is now a full time and dangerous job worthy enough of investing in. Agree, he looks like he could establish himself as a DB as well but he's more valuable to the team as a returner. Perhaps he'll dictate his own position when his ELC expires, but for now I expect he'll continue as an emergency back up. Shuffling the secondary too much comes with the risk of increasing confusion and mixups, so they'll want to keep that to a minimum if they decide to go with Texada instead.
No controversy.
Nichols can go to Ottawa
TEXADA is the real deal.mgo get five more like him.
baba listen way better than any DB we have. Go make one of thenNGL cuts our PReturner if need be., Hey Kelvin Cline. Pay him. He would be the best prospect we have.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 30, 2026, 04:43:52 PMI wouldn't be surprised if Vaval asked for $150k on his next contract, if only for his return work, being a returner is now a full time and dangerous job worthy enough of investing in. Agree, he looks like he could establish himself as a DB as well but he's more valuable to the team as a returner. Perhaps he'll dictate his own position when his ELC expires, but for now I expect he'll continue as an emergency back up. Shuffling the secondary too much comes with the risk of increasing confusion and mixups, so they'll want to keep that to a minimum if they decide to go with Texada instead.
Vaval will get more money that's for sure. I'm more concerned about whether he gets any NFL interest. We'll make him a fair off but I'm not sure how much that will be.
I don't agree that he might not be more valuable as a top level CB than as a returner or that he can't do both.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 30, 2026, 04:43:52 PMI wouldn't be surprised if Vaval asked for $150k on his next contract, if only for his return work, being a returner is now a full time and dangerous job worthy enough of investing in. Agree, he looks like he could establish himself as a DB as well but he's more valuable to the team as a returner. Perhaps he'll dictate his own position when his ELC expires, but for now I expect he'll continue as an emergency back up. Shuffling the secondary too much comes with the risk of increasing confusion and mixups, so they'll want to keep that to a minimum if they decide to go with Texada instead.
Ya'll need to wrap your heads around the salary cap these days. $150k is nothing.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 30, 2026, 04:26:41 PMKevin Fogg for awhile.
I actually forgot about my 2nd favourite player of all time: Jovon Johnson. 2011 MODP while being our punt returner and taking missed FG.
Vaval is a top returner and I would prefer to sprinkle him on D. I would pay him more than $150 if he wanted it. Worth locking him down.
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 30, 2026, 06:08:10 PMVaval will get more money that's for sure. I'm more concerned about whether he gets any NFL interest. We'll make him a fair off but I'm not sure how much that will be.
I don't agree that he might not be more valuable as a top level CB than as a returner or that he can't do both.
Vaval had workouts with 6 NFL teams last off-season and is currently signed with the Bombers through 2027, maybe at his original ELC rate which would be blatantly unfair considering the awards he won last season. I'm sure just as many NFL teams will come calling again after this season, if I was him I'd pull a Pokey and renegotiate my contract at the end of his second year, if he truly has no intention of taking another shot at the NFL.
Quote from: Jesse on August 30, 2026, 03:28:15 PMIt seems like the top guys are the ones who are pressed into double duty, actually. Teams don't want to waste their top talent.
Chad Owens and Chris Williams come to mind.
Ya but Owens was getting hurt a lot. And that's going back a ways. Williams is more recent. He'd be a better example, but didn't he get hurt then leave for NFL?
The key to these guys being great is don't get injured.
Ya, fogg too. But he was never a top 3. And he got hurt a lot too!
Quote from: Blueforlife on August 30, 2026, 08:34:52 PMVaval is a top returner and I would prefer to sprinkle him on D. I would pay him more than $150 if he wanted it. Worth locking him down.
Well, it was never that we didn't want to pay grant, it's that we couldn't find him and didn't want to play chase and babysitter like pinball did.
Since vaval isn't a flake, I have no doubt we'll re sign him and pay him a fair rate. And I'm not concerned about vaval leaving for a few bucks more.
In terms of playing Vaval in the D and returning, I'd take a guess there's a strategy where he takes less 2nd and long reps than the typical CB so that he can catch his breath.
The battle isn't between Nichols and Vaval. It is between Nichols and Williams.
Ottawa uses Pimpleton as a returner and receiver consistently. That's another current example.
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 31, 2026, 01:01:35 PMOttawa uses Pimpleton as a returner and receiver consistently. That's another current example.
Not that we want to follow Ottawas example.
But I think the takeaway that there's aren't any hard and fast rules, it just depends on the player. We tried to make Grant a part of the offence - he certainly wanted to be more than "just" a returner - but he wasn't very effective.
Vaval seems to be a promising corner and we need help in our secondary. I think that's the answer.
Quote from: bomberjunkie on August 31, 2026, 11:40:36 AMIn terms of playing Vaval in the D and returning, I'd take a guess there's a strategy where he takes less 2nd and long reps than the typical CB so that he can catch his breath.
And I think we might have done that a bit? However, from an injury standpoint I'd rather he play passing downs, not first downs. First downs is where smaller DBs get blown up by big rbs or ol. That's where they get injured.
As for staying fresh... Hard to do unless you can predict when the opponents drive is about to stall and take him out that one 3 down sequence.
Quote from: Tecno on August 31, 2026, 06:28:28 AMWell, it was never that we didn't want to pay grant, it's that we couldn't find him and didn't want to play chase and babysitter like pinball did.
Since vaval isn't a flake, I have no doubt we'll re sign him and pay him a fair rate. And I'm not concerned about vaval leaving for a few bucks more.
Special Teamers are like being members of the Orc Army in the CFL, they do dirty things and don't get paid all that well. Currently Sergio is the highest paid kicker at $140k and Pimpleton is the highest paid returner at $135k, Grant find himself at #5 at $120k, imagine what the Bombers were offering him 3 years ago? Vaval came in at $95k which put him at #8, 2 spots behind Peyton Logan who is now unemployed.
That's why I believe Vaval is set to become the highest paid ST'er in the league, as a young game changing offensive weapon that provides great field position, he's well worth a large investment North of $150k. If he has a smart agent he'll push him forward as a DB to extend his career but it would take longer to ascend that ladder as $150k bypasses many of the current players on defence that have been toiling for years, Tony Jones for example. I believe this is also the first year Holm, Nichols and Kramdi passed the $150k barrier.
$95k for Vaval is a crime, we'd better extend him asap and compensate accordingly or we're going to have another Janarian Grant walking away from us bitter he got ripped off and rightfully so. He is MASSIVELY important to our offense in that he gives them good field position pretty much every punt. You can't nickel-dime this guy, and to think we are paying both Holm and Vaval combined less than Brady, freaks me out. I'd be pissed if I was those guys as there is massive inequity going on.