Blue Bombers Forum

We can't airlift new personnel in for next game, but what changes would you be making to our current lineup, I d start with the following

#1- Collaros needs to come back and run our offense

#2- we need Jones back at MLB, Wilson is gone

#3- we need a safety

#4 - Broxton in/Bryant out

Jake Kelly was the only one who hit anyone on defense last game and it's unlikely he was responsible for a lot of the rushing yards given up. JY sucks but his run defense isn't so hopeless he's counting on the safety to stop the rush most downs. And we gave up basically nothing through the air except for the usual gifts from Deatrick Nichols.

We need a half back more than a safety at the moment. We simply can't let Nichols "Jake Thomas " his way through this season. It's too expensive and too obvious.

Veteran cut down guarantees are rapidly coming into play. Our next game is game 9. So changes during the bye would be appropriate if we plan to release some of those players. From a PR point of view I could live with adding them to the 6 game IR ( if they agree ) to guarantee their pay off the SMS charge.

I wonder what Vaval in at CB would look like. He's a talented guy.

I like what Smith brings to the defence. Have him at WIL/MLB, bench Wilson.

Defence needs to stay in a base package more and eliminate the constant substitution packages which have to be contributing to all the missed coverages.

Hard to know what to do on offence without knowing who's going to be healthy. You hope that Zach and Broxton are healthy and that Zach can do something with Condell's offence, but the whole offensive scheme looks like it needs to be thrown in the garbage.

All seems futile without scheme changes.

That said, Peterson needs to play so we can run more. Easier to block for the run and it keeps the QB healthier.

1. Condell should think about the play he wants to call, and then just do the opposite
2. We should take a portion of our defensive gameplan and add a component that possibly focuses on not letting the other team run 377 yards on them
3. Broxton at LT
4. Zach
5. 13th and 14th player added to the field to give a 7 man oline so that nobody touches Zach's neck
6. Give O'Shea a pair

Quote from: dd on July 31, 2026, 03:08:57 PMWe can't airlift new personnel in for next game, but what changes would you be making to our current lineup, I d start with the following

#1- Collaros needs to come back and run our offense

#2- we need Jones back at MLB, Wilson is gone

#3- we need a safety

#4 - Broxton in/Bryant out

If the Bombers can only win with Zach (which I disagree with, I don't think he's winning the last game) then the Bombers are in massive trouble in 2027!

Zach is not the saviour, and the Bombers  brought in Brown for exactly this situation.

Either the Bombers overestimated Brown, or their plays and execution stink...and likely both.

Quote from: Donny C on July 31, 2026, 10:14:19 PMZach is not the saviour, and the Bombers  brought in Brown for exactly this situation.

But Zach has the full book.  Dru was given maybe 20% of the book last game.  Absolutely nothing over top.  He was given even less than he got vs CGY!  Because he's an INT machine -- just like he was in OTT sometimes.

Just having the whole book opens up the whole game.  It opens up the run.  Opens up the short pass.  Opens up the zone hole sits.  And allows us to take the shots.

The fact that week to week Dru's book moved BACKWARDS is very telling.

Anyone who says Zach wouldn't win that game vs BC is, I hate to say it, nuts.  We'd convert at least half of those ones we FG'd on, and we'd have more hope at the end because Zach wouldn't take that hit, he'd slide.

Wilson stays on but yes play Smith more.

Bryant is aging but must play.

Hard no on Peterson.

Play calling is terrible and this needs a major change.

Zach in only if 110%.

Signing a safety would be good (vet).  Next to impossible.

Something major must change on how we stop the run.

Some great points and debate here.

To suggested Nichols is this years Jake Thomas doesn't show any respect.  Yes Nichols is struggling but no need to be like that.

Rotating on D should remain imo.

Vaval on D isn't a good idea, he is too valuable to play both positions.  He is decent on D.  Emergency replacement.

MOS and all the coaches must adjust.

Quote from: Tecno on August 01, 2026, 07:00:05 AMBut Zach has the full book.  Dru was given maybe 20% of the book last game.  Absolutely nothing over top.  He was given even less than he got vs CGY!  Because he's an INT machine -- just like he was in OTT sometimes.

Just having the whole book opens up the whole game.  It opens up the run.  Opens up the short pass.  Opens up the zone hole sits.  And allows us to take the shots.

The fact that week to week Dru's book moved BACKWARDS is very telling.

Anyone who says Zach wouldn't win that game vs BC is, I hate to say it, nuts.  We'd convert at least half of those ones we FG'd on, and we'd have more hope at the end because Zach wouldn't take that hit, he'd slide.

Was Brown's playbook actually only 20%?  I could see that being the case game 1 back, but they have had to install much more since then, especially since he ran Condell's O in Ottawa.

Was the "nothing over the top" a scheme issue, or a Dru issue.  Guy threw 4 picks last game, and had a Pick completion % of only 45% (meaning he had 5 picks dropped).  Was his hesitance to throw "over the top" related to scheme or fear? 

If they actually schemed away from it, and cut his legs out (his big complaint about getting demoted in Ott was that he had a better deep ball than Maier), that's bad.  Shows a lack of confidence, which then gets him to question himself.

If it was fear, then what is he doing under centre?

BC abandoned Price after one bad game.  Will he be back?  Rourke it the #1, and Salter just sauntered his way past Price.  Have to hand it to Buck, but I guess 1-5 makes that decision easier.  4-3, its hard to make the change to an unknown in Perkins.

But with 2 beatdowns in a row by teams behind us in the division, I really hope either Zach is back, Elgersma steps up, or they give Perkins his Salter shot.

Dru, especially hobbled, cannot start the next game.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 01, 2026, 02:54:35 PMWas Brown's playbook actually only 20%?  I could see that being the case game 1 back, but they have had to install much more since then, especially since he ran Condell's O in Ottawa.

Was the "nothing over the top" a scheme issue, or a Dru issue.  Guy threw 4 picks last game, and had a Pick completion % of only 45% (meaning he had 5 picks dropped).  Was his hesitance to throw "over the top" related to scheme or fear? 

If they actually schemed away from it, and cut his legs out (his big complaint about getting demoted in Ott was that he had a better deep ball than Maier), that's bad.  Shows a lack of confidence, which then gets him to question himself.

If it was fear, then what is he doing under centre?

BC abandoned Price after one bad game.  Will he be back?  Rourke it the #1, and Salter just sauntered his way past Price.  Have to hand it to Buck, but I guess 1-5 makes that decision easier.  4-3, its hard to make the change to an unknown in Perkins.

But with 2 beatdowns in a row by teams behind us in the division, I really hope either Zach is back, Elgersma steps up, or they give Perkins his Salter shot.

Dru, especially hobbled, cannot start the next game.

The lack of shots was a big issue 100%.  Either took it away, receivers were not open or not confident on Brown.  Likely a combo platter.  A real good take here.

I believe our success on O will come only if three things happen.
1. OL healthy and figures it out
2. Brady cooks
3. Zach slings nasty med to deep

Bombs and Bbb its our only hope.  Come on hogs! One more year lol.

I am a strong believer in trend analysis (hence my doctoral dissertation) and the trend line for Bomber personnel and related has trended downward for 3 years at least IMHO. The 2026 talent pool is just not good enough to compete effectively regardless of who you plug and play. And this is not a new issue. IMHO it has been going on for 3 years or so. Too many older veterans past their best before dates and a lack of solid talent bought in to supplement or grow the talent pool. I believe from a top management perspective (Miller and Walters) we are good, however from there on down not sure if changes are needed. Will not happen this year but if Miller wants sold out stadiums in 2027 he will probably need to make some changes within the coaching and scouting ranks.

For 2026 I believe all we will be able to do is make minor cosmetic changes etc. Just my opinion from the outside looking in.

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 01, 2026, 02:36:14 PMWilson stays on but yes play Smith more.

Bryant is aging but must play.

Hard no on Peterson.

Play calling is terrible and this needs a major change.

Zach in only if 110%.

Signing a safety would be good (vet).  Next to impossible.

Something major must change on how we stop the run.

Some great points and debate here.

To suggested Nichols is this years Jake Thomas doesn't show any respect.  Yes Nichols is struggling but no need to be like that.

Rotating on D should remain imo.

Vaval on D isn't a good idea, he is too valuable to play both positions.  He is decent on D.  Emergency replacement.

MOS and all the coaches must adjust.

Smith is improving but I did notice he got caught inside on Salter's 1st big run outside. It may not have been his assignment but then a couple of other players missed tackles as well. He's made other what appears to be errors but it's to be expected with just starting to get more reps.

Quit defending K. Wilson. He was a liability last year and that continues this year. You suggest something major to change on the ability to stop the run but decline all the comments about K. Wilson.

I don't know if Vaval is a better option at DB than Moxey. We have Womack as a back up returner and receiver. Vaval could still also be returning kicks.

We also have Jackson who appears to be a SAM or DHB option.

I think the defensive strategy of 10 yards off the ball is hurting the secondary. Nichols didn't forget how to play and often is covering a top receiver.

It's a consideration but we don't know if it's a good one since we don't see every rep in practice. Our defence is more of an issue than any possible " damage " to our return game. 

Other teams have other RB's to use in different situations on their AR. That's something we lack. In the red zone on 2nd and 3 or 4 we give it to Oliveria and he gets stuffed. Defences know what to expect.

Could slipping in Peterson as a variable be effective? Unless we do it we'll never know. The counter point is that if players like Womack, Peterson and Texada are only warm bodies for emergency that is an issue.

Bryant is another issue but whether we have a better alternative is less clear. Collaros was injured on a blindside hit. Moving Broxton to LT OT and leaving Vanterpool at RT may be a necessary change. Our offence has not been great all season. Even less so with Brown learning the playbook.

Do we expect any of Bryant, Nichols or K. Wilson back in 2027?

Status quo is not an option.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 01, 2026, 04:58:20 PMSmith is improving but I did notice he got caught inside on Salter's 1st big run outside. It may not have been his assignment but then a couple of other players missed tackles.

Quit defending K. Wilson. He was a liability last year and that continues this year. You suggest something major to change on the ability to stop the run but decline all the comments about K. Wilson.

I don't know if Vaval is a better option at DB than Moxey. We have Womack as a back up returner and receiver. Vaval could still also be returning kicks.

I think the defensive strategy of 10 yards off the ball is hurting the secondary. Nichols didn't forget how to play and often is covering a top receiver.

It's a consideration but we don't know if it's a good one since we don't see every rep in practice. Our defence is more of an issue than any possible " damage " to our return game. 

Other teams have other RB's to use in different situations on their AR. That's something we lack. In the red zone on 2nd and 3 or 4 we give it to Oliveria and he gets stuffed. Defences know what to expect.

Could slipping in Peterson as a variable be effective? Unless we do it we'll never know. The counter point is that if players like Womack, Peterson and Texada are only warm bodies for emergency that is an issue.

Condell is continuing the trend of not involving Clercius or MCI in the offence's plans as well as ignoring Cobb and now Nield, tracing back to Ottawa did he ever make good use of his Natl. players?  I see from last years Ottawa roster he employed Luther Hakunavanhu and Daniel Adeboboye who were underused and let go at the end of last season.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 01, 2026, 04:58:20 PMSmith is improving but I did notice he got caught inside on Salter's 1st big run outside. It may not have been his assignment but then a couple of other players missed tackles as well. He's made other what appears to be errors but it's to be expected with just starting to get more reps.

Quit defending K. Wilson. He was a liability last year and that continues this year. You suggest something major to change on the ability to stop the run but decline all the comments about K. Wilson.

I don't know if Vaval is a better option at DB than Moxey. We have Womack as a back up returner and receiver. Vaval could still also be returning kicks.

We also have Jackson who appears to be a SAM or DHB option.

I think the defensive strategy of 10 yards off the ball is hurting the secondary. Nichols didn't forget how to play and often is covering a top receiver.

It's a consideration but we don't know if it's a good one since we don't see every rep in practice. Our defence is more of an issue than any possible " damage " to our return game. 

Other teams have other RB's to use in different situations on their AR. That's something we lack. In the red zone on 2nd and 3 or 4 we give it to Oliveria and he gets stuffed. Defences know what to expect.

Could slipping in Peterson as a variable be effective? Unless we do it we'll never know. The counter point is that if players like Womack, Peterson and Texada are only warm bodies for emergency that is an issue.

Bryant is another issue but whether we have a better alternative is less clear. Collaros was injured on a blindside hit. Moving Broxton to LT OT and leaving Vanterpool at RT may be a necessary change. Our offence has not been great all season. Even less so with Brown learning the playbook.

Do we expect any of Bryant, Nichols or K. Wilson back in 2027?

Status quo is not an option.

Don't tell me what/how to post and while I have defended Wilson in the past, I suggested he stays on the AR but give Smith more reps. No need to be like that.  Fake news I don't decline all comments about Wilson but nice try! Lol


2026
WPG   8   22   2   0

His numbers are consistent with his career, near the end, yes.  Good enough to remain on the AR, yes.

Make a lot of good points, didn't notice Smiths mistake but our group at the game thought he looked good.  Did notice Wilson with a big tackle/stuff!

Wilson had a good year last year.  He wasn't a liability imo.  The facts suggest you are wrong, 2nd best tackle total best sack total (matched 2019).  Dems the facts jack.  Played all the game.  D was good last year.
2025
WPG   18   49   2   3

Moxie >>>> Vaval, Vaval on D would be an experiment/future development opportunity.  Would hurt more than help now.  Might pay off for future.

As mentioned before putting Peterson on isn't worth who comes off.  Other ways to give people touches in thr backfield as mentioned previously.  Brady is our guy and needs more touches not less. Now we did swing that too far on Thurs, over compensated.

Do we expect any of Bryant, Nichols or K. Wilson back in 2027? No

Quote from: BBRT on August 01, 2026, 04:45:59 PMI am a strong believer in trend analysis (hence my doctoral dissertation) and the trend line for Bomber personnel and related has trended downward for 3 years at least IMHO. The 2026 talent pool is just not good enough to compete effectively regardless of who you plug and play. And this is not a new issue. IMHO it has been going on for 3 years or so. Too many older veterans past their best before dates and a lack of solid talent bought in to supplement or grow the talent pool. I believe from a top management perspective (Miller and Walters) we are good, however from there on down not sure if changes are needed. Will not happen this year but if Miller wants sold out stadiums in 2027 he will probably need to make some changes within the coaching and scouting ranks.

For 2026 I believe all we will be able to do is make minor cosmetic changes etc. Just my opinion from the outside looking in.

Hard to argue with any of this

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 01, 2026, 05:15:57 PMCondell is continuing the trend of not involving Clercius or MCI in the offence's plans as well as ignoring Cobb and now Nield, tracing back to Ottawa did he ever make good use of his Natl. players?  I see from last years Ottawa roster he employed Luther Hakunavanhu and Daniel Adeboboye who were underused and let go at the end of last season.

It was Clercius' first game and he's a back-up. MCI is a FB/ How many reps do you think they'd get? Cobb is the last possible read and Neild seems to be QB dependant. Zach looked his way a lot, but Dru is not.

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 01, 2026, 05:41:07 PMDon't tell me what/how to post and while I have defended Wilson in the past, I suggested he stays on the AR but give Smith more reps. No need to be like that.  Fake news I don't decline all comments about Wilson but nice try! Lol


2026
WPG   8   22   2   0

His numbers are consistent with his career, near the end, yes.  Good enough to remain on the AR, yes.

Make a lot of good points, didn't notice Smiths mistake but our group at the game thought he looked good.  Did notice Wilson with a big tackle/stuff!

Wilson had a good year last year.  He wasn't a liability imo.  The facts suggest you are wrong, 2nd best tackle total best sack total (matched 2019).  Dems the facts jack.  Played all the game.  D was good last year.
2025
WPG   18   49   2   3

Moxie >>>> Vaval, Vaval on D would be an experiment/future development opportunity.  Would hurt more than help now.  Might pay off for future.

As mentioned before putting Peterson on isn't worth who comes off.  Other ways to give people touches in thr backfield as mentioned previously.  Brady is our guy and needs more touches not less. Now we did swing that too far on Thurs, over compensated.

Do we expect any of Bryant, Nichols or K. Wilson back in 2027? No
Hard to argue with any of this

You can call it fake news but you need a reality check with older veterans that are under performing. If Calgary beats Hamilton today as expected, the Bombers will be essentially in 4th place. We'll have lost to Edmonton, Calgary and BC.

We also finished in 4th in 2025 winning 10 games. So that's 14 wins in 26 games in that time frame. We didn't JUST to lose the Lions, we were destroyed.

It's been a downward team trend which is obvious. Minor tweaks are not enough.

As far as K. Wilson he was a WIL moved to MLB this season.  What he did in the past is irrelevant at the moment.

Something has to give and it's not just reps for this player or that player. Somebody needs to be replace if we want to finish better than a crossover.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 01, 2026, 06:06:56 PMYou can call it fake news but you need a reality check with older veterans that are under performing. If Calgary beats Hamilton today as expected, the Bombers will be essentially in 4th place. We'll have lost to Edmonton, Calgary and BC.

As soon as some new players (and hopefully a new defensive coordinator)gets shuffled into position they'll be latest and greatest best ever also and the told-ya-so's can re-commence. The cycle CNA then continue of pretending to know what he's talking about while simultaneously saying the same thing over and over and over.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 01, 2026, 06:06:56 PMYou can call it fake news but you need a reality check with older veterans that are under performing. If Calgary beats Hamilton today as expected, the Bombers will be essentially in 4th place. We'll have lost to Edmonton, Calgary and BC.

We also finished in 4th in 2025 winning 10 games. So that's 14 wins in 26 games in that time frame. We didn't JUST to lose the Lions, we were destroyed.

It's been a downward team trend which is obvious. Minor tweaks are not enough.

As far as K. Wilson he was a WIL moved to MLB this season.  What he did in the past is irrelevant at the moment.

Something has to give and it's not just reps for this player or that player. Somebody needs to be replace if we want to finish better than a crossover.

Fake news wasn't in reference to Wilson's play or your analysis it was in reference to how you said I decline all comments about Wilson.

The debate on his performance is a good one and we should continue it.  You make a good point about how he changed positions. That said his stats paint a different picture than what you have said about him.

Its a tough spot for this club.  A bunch a vets near the end and we are on the cusp of a rebuild.

Yes we are a cross over team at best.  Yes we need help on the field and in coaching.

To those that suggest we spell or replace Brady

He leads the league in yards per carry which meets his career high

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 01, 2026, 06:46:03 PMFake news wasn't in reference to Wilson's play or your analysis it was in reference to how you said I decline all comments about Wilson.

The debate on his performance is a good one and we should continue it.  You make a good point about how he changed positions. That said his stats paint a different picture than what you have said about him.

Its a tough spot for this club.  A bunch a vets near the end and we are on the cusp of a rebuild.

Yes we are a cross over team at best.  Yes we need help on the field and in coaching.

To those that suggest we spell or replace Brady

He leads the league in yards per carry which meets his career high

Declining comments about Wilson: You want to hold onto players because of their past performance when they are clearly in decline.

I disagree his stats show something different. I even had pointed out earlier an comparison to Sankey in the last game. I'd also point out the stat of giving up 377 yards rushing in the last game. We also gave up 104 yards to Rankin earlier and 124 yards to Rountree.

Today's game: M. Lee at MLB has 3 DT's and 2 sacks as an example. Last week he had 2 DT's against us. McMannis has 2 DT's by half time today.  Last week he had 4 in the game.

MLB's need to make plays that impact the game often. ( Bighill ). He played sideline to sideline.

Regarding Brady in the last game. I've deleted the PVR. However, we were inside the 10 twice early and IIRC he got essentially stuffed and we settled for FG's. Yes it was predictable and our OL can't run block but those are plays he has to be more successful.

I've mentioned the comment about doing the same thing and expecting a different result. The fault is not only with him but the result is predictable.

BTW: The counter point about using Vaval at CB if he's better than Moxey. McAllister and Pimpleton both are used on offence in a significant way but are the primary returner as well. There have been defensive players that have done the same. Although we don't see a CB rotating in and out while you do see an offensive player not play every down.

So it's a bit different and whether Vaval is an upgrade at CB and whether Womak has something to offer as a returner IDK. He may be the next Vaval for all we know or the 1st cut next week.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 01, 2026, 08:30:54 PMDeclining comments about Wilson: You want to hold onto players because of their past performance when they are clearly in decline.

I disagree his stats show something different. I even had pointed out earlier an comparison to Sankey in the last game. I'd also point out the stat of giving up 377 yards rushing in the last game. We also gave up 104 yards to Rankin earlier and 124 yards to Rountree.

Today's game: M. Lee at MLB has 3 DT's and 2 sacks as an example. Last week he had 2 DT's against us. McMannis has 2 DT's by half time today.  Last week he had 4 in the game.

MLB's need to make plays that impact the game often. ( Bighill ). He played sideline to sideline.

Regarding Brady in the last game. I've deleted the PVR. However, we were inside the 10 twice early and IIRC he got essentially stuffed and we settled for FG's. Yes it was predictable and our OL can't run block but those are plays he has to be more successful.

I've mentioned the comment about doing the same thing and expecting a different result. The fault is not only with him but the result is predictable.

BTW: The counter point about using Vaval at CB if he's better than Moxey. McAllister and Pimpleton both are used on offence in a significant way but are the primary returner as well. There have been defensive players that have done the same. Although we don't see a CB rotating in and out while you do see an offensive player not play every down.

So it's a bit different and whether Vaval is an upgrade at CB and whether Womak has something to offer as a returner IDK. He may be the next Vaval for all we know or the 1st cut next week.

I only said to keep Wilson in AR and spell him with Smith.   Don't try to make the discussion into something different.  I defend the players I like, each situation is unique.  Speaking about my approach in general terms brings nothing to the discussion.  You don't get better by deletion unless next man up is better.  I have always loved Wilson and a few years ago some on the forum dumped on him (injuries).  Bounced back last year and you are trying sell that he was a liability when the stats (facts) tell a different story.  I like to back up my opinions with facts.  Others liked Wilson's game last year.  An attempt to revise history there to fit your current narrative imo.

You have moved on from good vets too early (Harris) before.  Sometimes the greats are like fine wine.  Yes sometimes they spoil.  Wilson  is like box wine at this point, good enough but ok to try something new some weekends lol.

You called Wilson a liability or something similar last year which his stats 100% prove otherwise.

Vaval <<< Moxie at corner

This year lets see how the seasons ends before we judge Wilsons season.  About average I would guess.

Vaval is so special you keep him healthy for teams imo. Any suggestion for him to be spelled makes zero sense imo.

I enjoyed your take, make some good points.

Sankey and Biggie are generational talents.  Not a fair comparison imo.

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 01, 2026, 09:10:55 PMI only said to keep Wilson in AR and spell him with Smith.   Don't try to make the discussion into something different.  I defend the players I like, each situation is unique.  Speaking about my approach in general terms brings nothing to the discussion.  You don't get better by deletion unless next man up is better.  I have always loved Wilson and a few years ago some on the forum dumped on him (injuries).  Bounced back last year and you are trying sell that he was a liability when the stats (facts) tell a different story.  I like to back up my opinions with facts.  Others liked Wilson's game last year.  An attempt to revise history there to fit your current narrative imo.

You have moved on from good vets too early (Harris) before.  Sometimes the greats are like fine wine.  Yes sometimes they spoil.  Wilson  is like box wine at this point, good enough but ok to try something new some weekends lol.

You called Wilson a liability or something similar last year which his stats 100% prove otherwise.

Vaval <<< Moxie at corner

This year lets see how the seasons ends before we judge Wilsons season.  About average I would guess.

Vaval is so special you keep him healthy for teams imo. Any suggestion for him to be spelled makes zero sense imo.

I enjoyed your take, make some good points.

Sankey and Biggie are generational talents.  Not a fair comparison imo.

Many of us thought bringing back K. Wilson was a mistake and noticed his downward spiral more than in just this season.Read the off season comments if you can find them or even TC questioning what the heck. He has not had anything approaching a good season.  Keeping him on the AR with less reps does nothing for succession planning or roster management. At best it's a maybe decision skewed by already using a DI spot on Ayers.

You want to wait once again to see how the season works out? From 2022 to date we've won less games every season. We're trending badly at the moment with no apparent answers. Tied with the Stamps for 3rd / 4th and they are a better team at the moment.

Many weren't interested in Sankey when he was available. Go figure.

I see McMannis now has 5 DT's. In the 2nd half I noticed in the 3rd Q, he stopped an RB from getting a 1st down. He had a TFL, a near int and a couple of other important plays.

I'm not sure if I wanted to move on from Harris early but if we didn't then we wouldn't have developed Oliveria. SMS is always a consideration when making these decisions. Succession plan, injury history, age etc etc.

Yards per carry is a very good  stat. I'd like the stat on how many shorter 2nd down plays he doesn't make the play necessary. I mentioned the 2 times we settled for FG's when the necessary run didn't succeed. It is something we see often late in games when teams know he'll be running out the clock and are forced to end up punting. Getting 3 yards when you need 2 and the opponent knows you'll get the ball type of situation.

Yes Vaval is special. So is McAllister and he scored 3 TD's on us last week.. The Bombers used Grant on offence in the past. Last year we would have used Logan on offence if Vaval didn't beat him out as the returner. 

An argument could be made that he isn't better than Moxey as a CB but the argument that he shouldn't see double duty is not. History is full of players that have had that kind of dual role including in Winnipeg.

Moxey is taking a lot of heat but IMO it's more soft coverage by JY that are the issue.

Next game is against the Redblacks. It might be time to " test " some changes. That's a risk but so would losing to them be bad bad news.

It's not the 1st time the " board " has questioned roster choices and lack of use of the entire roster.

Having said that about on offence, I'm wondering if the constant rotation on defence is really working out for the best. The defence is making a lot of mistakes and that might be part of it.

Quote from: Jesse on August 01, 2026, 05:58:23 PMIt was Clercius' first game and he's a back-up. MCI is a FB/ How many reps do you think they'd get? Cobb is the last possible read and Neild seems to be QB dependant. Zach looked his way a lot, but Dru is not.

Who is Clercius a backup to, Cobb?

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 01, 2026, 11:17:27 PMWho is Clercius a backup to, Cobb?

Just any Canadian receiver. Technically listed behind Neild, I think.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 01, 2026, 10:06:29 PMMany of us thought bringing back K. Wilson was a mistake and noticed his downward spiral more than in just this season.Read the off season comments if you can find them or even TC questioning what the heck. He has not had anything approaching a good season.  Keeping him on the AR with less reps does nothing for succession planning or roster management. At best it's a maybe decision skewed by already using a DI spot on Ayers.

You want to wait once again to see how the season works out? From 2022 to date we've won less games every season. We're trending badly at the moment with no apparent answers. Tied with the Stamps for 3rd / 4th and they are a better team at the moment.

Many weren't interested in Sankey when he was available. Go figure.

I see McMannis now has 5 DT's. In the 2nd half I noticed in the 3rd Q, he stopped an RB from getting a 1st down. He had a TFL, a near int and a couple of other important plays.

I'm not sure if I wanted to move on from Harris early but if we didn't then we wouldn't have developed Oliveria. SMS is always a consideration when making these decisions. Succession plan, injury history, age etc etc.

Yards per carry is a very good  stat. I'd like the stat on how many shorter 2nd down plays he doesn't make the play necessary. I mentioned the 2 times we settled for FG's when the necessary run didn't succeed. It is something we see often late in games when teams know he'll be running out the clock and are forced to end up punting. Getting 3 yards when you need 2 and the opponent knows you'll get the ball type of situation.

Yes Vaval is special. So is McAllister and he scored 3 TD's on us last week.. The Bombers used Grant on offence in the past. Last year we would have used Logan on offence if Vaval didn't beat him out as the returner. 

An argument could be made that he isn't better than Moxey as a CB but the argument that he shouldn't see double duty is not. History is full of players that have had that kind of dual role including in Winnipeg.

Moxey is taking a lot of heat but IMO it's more soft coverage by JY that are the issue.

Next game is against the Redblacks. It might be time to " test " some changes. That's a risk but so would losing to them be bad bad news.

It's not the 1st time the " board " has questioned roster choices and lack of use of the entire roster.

Having said that about on offence, I'm wondering if the constant rotation on defence is really working out for the best. The defence is making a lot of mistakes and that might be part of it.

Some very good points and a well written summary.  The last point I might start to waiver on.  For years when D was dominant the rotation was king.  One of the teams that played earlier mentioned the complexity of their systems and how it was a balance between confusing players and not being to one dimensional.  A fine line the Bombers must walk.  Reminds me of late Dave Ritchie how he made all his stars play teams.  An interesting way to deploy the roster but perhaps not how I would approach it.  In the end rotation brings development opportunity.  Vets also can be more consistent.

This club has lots of soul searching.  For someone that has been so positive for so long, the tides have turned but perhaps we can surf this final surge to the playoffs and Zach can sing us a swan song for the ages. 

What's your summary on Ayers impact.  With the D playing so poorly he disappeared a bit or am I wrong? Is he a beast on teams.

These deeper dives on club are really enjoyable man.  While we sometimes battle, the very essence of this forum is on full display. 

You just didn't believe fully in late stage injury plaqued Harris like I did.  I was slightly exaggerating.  Unless my memory fails me, then forgive my ignorance

Sankey just too $.  Moxie isn't part of the solution but also not our biggest problem.

A healthy Kramdi will balance out the D a bit imo.  That's a few games away likely and might be too late.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 01, 2026, 02:54:35 PMWas Brown's playbook actually only 20%?  I could see that being the case game 1 back, but they have had to install much more since then, especially since he ran Condell's O in Ottawa.

Yes, Dru's book was totally smaller in the BC game vs the CGY game.  I don't know the exact percentage, but I called the CGY game maybe a 35% book (because he's so new here), and the BC game 20%.  It's roughly correct.

They went and ripped up every single deep option for Dru for BC.  If there was any go routes, they were for clearing only.  By some time in the 2nd Q BC had figured this out.  Watch how their DBs adjust.  Absolutely no one respected anything over, and cheated up to everything under.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 01, 2026, 02:54:35 PMWas the "nothing over the top" a scheme issue, or a Dru issue.  Guy threw 4 picks last game, and had a Pick completion % of only 45% (meaning he had 5 picks dropped).  Was his hesitance to throw "over the top" related to scheme or fear?

Dru's a slinger.  Just like Zach.  He takes what looks good and loves that medium pass.  Plus Dru is the "zero emotion" iceberg that doesn't get rattled.  So 100% Dru was told and forced to take a limited book with no shot options.  He was also told he had to get the ball out super quick because the OL was going to be turnstiles.  Can't take shots with a garbage OL.

To be fair, it wasn't necessarily a bad game plan by Mafia... In theory a zero-turnover O should have won that game because it was against a garbage no-throw QB.  By the time it was apparent BC was able to win by just running, it was too late to change course and glass Dru was gonzo anyhow.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 01, 2026, 02:54:35 PMIf they actually schemed away from it, and cut his legs out (his big complaint about getting demoted in Ott was that he had a better deep ball than Maier), that's bad.  Shows a lack of confidence, which then gets him to question himself.

They totally had no confidence Dru wouldn't throw 4 more picks.  Why wouldn't they?

Final word: If the plan was to do run/short/run/short ad nauseum to lull BC into cheating up, then hitting them with the free deep home runs, then by mid/late 2nd Q you would have made those shots.  I was waiting for it all 1st Q.  But we never changed, we never took those shots.  After 1-2Q's of nothing but dink & dunk there would have been a ton of seams and posts and gos that would have been open.  That is the proof that Dru was handicapped.  We even had a lot of the 3rd Q for Dru to take advantage of a cheating-close D, and we didn't.  (Neither did Elgs, but he went to the Brohm School of Throwing To the Turf, so...)

Quote from: BBRT on August 01, 2026, 04:45:59 PMI believe from a top management perspective (Miller and Walters) we are good, however from there on down not sure if changes are needed. Will not happen this year but if Miller wants sold out stadiums in 2027 he will probably need to make some changes within the coaching and scouting ranks.

For 2026 I believe all we will be able to do is make minor cosmetic changes etc. Just my opinion from the outside looking in.

Good post.  I agree with almost everything you said.

But there's a problem.  We may already be in a downward spiral.  Like CGY circa 2019.

So many top retentions and new FA acquisitions said they chose WPG because they want to win.  That's pretty normal, especially if you want guys to sign here for a bit less than they are worth.  If we are no longer winning -- worse, we suck total butt and lose everything -- then there will be an exodus of players.  And to retain the loyal guys you'll still have to offer more $, like 20-25% more per guy.  And you'll attract zero people in FA unless you massively overpay.

If Mafia have created a throwaway year (not purposely), then anyone who's contract is up next FA will probably be gone or very costly.  But if we try very hard to improve, and maybe get an airlift or two, and we manage to be a .500 team and one-and-done, we're hampering our ability to use this year as a tryout/dev/improve year, trying to setup up '27 to be better.  You are darned if you do, darned if you don't.

If we can't even beat OTT, whether with Zach or Dru, and give that sad sack of misfits their first win (kind of like we did to BC, as I maintain their other 1 win was fake), then 100% this should be a throwaway season.

If this is a throwaway season, I am immediately benching/cutting/trading:
Nield
Cobb
Stan
Nichols
Moxey
maybe Kyrie

I'm instead starting Singer, Corcoran, Vant, <insert HB here, maybe via trade/couch>, Vaval/the-backup/or-Bonds.  Yes, Corcoran isn't great, but the idea is to shake things up and give the younger guys with maybe some upside more reps.  If they suck, start one of your IMPs or find a dropped DP REC from the last 1-2 seasons -- there's lots.

And Smith and Shay are starters immediately.

As for QB, you make Zach & Dru take pay cuts or they're traded away/cut.  You make Dru sign a 2-3 year deal at a massive discount.  Zach decides what his future is and you lock him into it (probably done after '26).  Then you tell the QBs they stay in and play.  If you get sacked and you are owies, you stay in.  If you don't stay in you're benched/traded/cut.

And I seriously consider starting Elgs.  I don't care how much he sucks.  Tell him it's ok to suck -- we WANT him to suck.  Just get reps and learn on the fly, tell him we have total faith it will make him a legit 2027 starter.  Tell all the fans in every presser and radio show that Elgs is allowed to suck and this is the plan and don't boo him.  Tell them he's the future Rourke and this pain must be tolerated.

If this sounds like a C.Jones "rebuild year", then I guess it is, and I'm finally starting to see why he did it all the time.  Sometimes the play and players are just SO BAD that "there has to be consequences".

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 01, 2026, 04:58:20 PMCould slipping in Peterson as a variable be effective? Unless we do it we'll never know. The counter point is that if players like Womack, Peterson and Texada are only warm bodies for emergency that is an issue.

You know better than anyone that to AR Peterson we lose a guy who is probably better at ST.  After that ST performance vs CGY, I'm not sure I want to see a "worse" cover team.

Not everyone is JA27 who is also good at ST.

You'd have to bench Novak, or Ball, or similar.  If Peterson was clearly better at ST, then he'd already be on the AR -- even with a healthy Brady.

Plus, not sure Brady would take kindly to Peterson sets coming in in the red zone just to give us some speed and edge threat... You want to be the one telling Brady he has no speed and can't reach the edge?

Thus, while the idea has merit, and might even get us more TDs, it won't happen here because of politics and culture.  It's simply not our way.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 01, 2026, 05:15:57 PMCondell is continuing the trend of not involving Clercius or MCI in the offence's plans as well as ignoring Cobb and now Nield, tracing back to Ottawa did he ever make good use of his Natl. players?

But Condell is using a shedload of Daniels, who is already a superior blocker and has better hands than Ike.  Clercius is getting some field time -- much more than Corcoran did as the "backup".

WPG has always been a team that ignores the droppers and whiffers.  Whether Zach or Dru, if you suck at 1-2 targets, you ain't getting more targets.  And that often carries over to the next game.  Hard to say how much of that is QB choice vs OC -- but it's a real effect.

As for Condell & NAT RECs in general -- great question!  I'm trying hard to remember what NATs Condell had in HAM in '19 and '21... Anyone remember?  Surely it was only 1-2 NAT RECs.

If Condell in general doesn't like/trust NATs then Houston we have a problem, because we are starting 3+1 on our O (REC/RB)!

Quote from: Tecno on August 02, 2026, 08:14:34 AMIf this is a throwaway

"Play to the final whistle" MOS would be part of a throw away season? We'd have to be mathematically eliminated. In the CFL that happens very late.

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 02, 2026, 01:11:17 AMSome very good points and a well written summary.  The last point I might start to waiver on.  For years when D was dominant the rotation was king.  One of the teams that played earlier mentioned the complexity of their systems and how it was a balance between confusing players and not being to one dimensional.  A fine line the Bombers must walk.  Reminds me of late Dave Ritchie how he made all his stars play teams.  An interesting way to deploy the roster but perhaps not how I would approach it.  In the end rotation brings development opportunity.  Vets also can be more consistent.

This club has lots of soul searching.  For someone that has been so positive for so long, the tides have turned but perhaps we can surf this final surge to the playoffs and Zach can sing us a swan song for the ages. 

What's your summary on Ayers impact.  With the D playing so poorly he disappeared a bit or am I wrong? Is he a beast on teams.

These deeper dives on club are really enjoyable man.  While we sometimes battle, the very essence of this forum is on full display. 

You just didn't believe fully in late stage injury plaqued Harris like I did.  I was slightly exaggerating.  Unless my memory fails me, then forgive my ignorance

Sankey just too $.  Moxie isn't part of the solution but also not our biggest problem.

A healthy Kramdi will balance out the D a bit imo.  That's a few games away likely and might be too late.

I don't dislike Ayers. He is a very good ST player but is not used on defence that often. Roster size and ratio are limiting for every CFL team. The Bombers don't have a DI on offence except Calvillo.

My position is that we cannot afford to have him in the role he fills. Compare his stats to Smith and it's not a contest. Smith is a Canadian.

Many said Sankey was too expensive but we don't know what his SMS is or even whether we considered him. He's not shown in the top 10 LB's in the CFL. # 10 is listed at $141K ( T. Richards a Canadian ) so in theory he's less than that.

Cost for performance across the roster is complicated. We pay many players big $$$ and have chosen to allow others to leave past a certain thresh hold.

Rotation on defence has it's pros and cons but it has to work. It's not anymore. I mentioned games won since 2022: 15, 14, 11, 10 and this year we're 4 wins to date.  You have to have the personnel to match your strategy.

Quote from: Tecno on August 02, 2026, 08:18:17 AMYou know better than anyone that to AR Peterson we lose a guy who is probably better at ST.  After that ST performance vs CGY, I'm not sure I want to see a "worse" cover team.

Not everyone is JA27 who is also good at ST.

You'd have to bench Novak, or Ball, or similar.  If Peterson was clearly better at ST, then he'd already be on the AR -- even with a healthy Brady.

Plus, not sure Brady would take kindly to Peterson sets coming in in the red zone just to give us some speed and edge threat... You want to be the one telling Brady he has no speed and can't reach the edge?

Thus, while the idea has merit, and might even get us more TDs, it won't happen here because of politics and culture.  It's simply not our way.

That's a valid point but we started using Novak and Ball as soon as they were activated. Who they replaced isn't quite clear. The point is that we have 12 players on ST's but only 1 RB. Our roster is full of ST players so IMO it's less of an issue than one we might have at RB as an alternative look. We did add and then take off Jackson after 1 game ( replaced by Woodbey ). In theory he'd be a back up DB if needed but Woodbey is a big add going forward.

I'd also point out other teams have the same issues and most seem to have 2 players at RB in every game. Or at least a DI that rotates in for some plays on offence.

If I had to make a choice I consider taking Shay off the AR. He doesn't seem to be in the mix on defence and he's not a great ST player. I'm still trying to figure out why we traded up to draft him and then don't use him. Was it a draft mistake.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 02, 2026, 02:28:31 PMI'd also point out other teams have the same issues and most seem to have 2 players at RB in every game. Or at least a DI that rotates in for some plays on offence

But not every team... A few teams are one rb only teams and have been for years. CGY is one. HAM is usually one. BC too, historically, but not right now.

Most teams will AR two, but the other has to be a good STer or another role like FB. That's not the same as the heavy rotation teams like MTL, EDM, etc.

The jury is out on what's better. I'm not convinced either way is superior. Though it you lose a guy who's good at other things because of it, especially a DI, then I question its value.

The every down aspect, and the free dress backup of a FB makes the extreme Brady price a bit more palatable.

Quote from: Tecno on August 02, 2026, 02:36:41 PMBut not every team... A few teams are one rb only teams and have been for years. CGY is one. HAM is usually one. BC too, historically, but not right now.

Most teams will AR two, but the other has to be a good STer or another role like FB. That's not the same as the heavy rotation teams like MTL, EDM, etc.

The jury is out on what's better. I'm not convinced either way is superior. Though it you lose a guy who's good at other things because of it, especially a DI, then I question its value.

The every down aspect, and the free dress backup of a FB makes the extreme Brady price a bit more palatable.

Do we need a FB, a TE, an extra OL and 3 Canadian receivers? It makes our offence very vanilla. We choose to not keep Augustine over MCI and Peterson and switched to an actual TE in the trade off.

Our offence is not exactly lighting up the league.

Calgary has often used a receiver that is a DI as an alternative look. This year it's McCallister who is the primary returner. I've mentioned that we would have used Logan in that role if Vaval didn't beat him out as the returner. Sometimes it's the choice whether the returner is a defensive back up or offensive back up.

Not having an offensive player as a DI is a liability IMO. That doesn't change the issue for Peterson, but our depth is zero if Wilson or White get injured in game.

Anyway, I am expecting at least a minor airlift of new faces for our PR. I see the Riders just added the UFL defensive player in 2025 to their AR for yesterdays game. Others like Maudlin and Lemon have been added to rosters recently. Start with newbies on the PR and see what develops from there.

I would bump 1 current starter depending on health of possible replacements. At this point I don't even care which one but we need a shake up. One of Bryant, K. Wilson, Ayers or Moxey. Giving up nearly 90 points in the last 2 games and 121 in the last 3????

We're on our bye and need to come out ready to play against a struggling Redblack team that might be 0 - 8 by the time we see theme. Playing a team that desperate is our weakness.

Quote from: Tecno on August 02, 2026, 08:14:34 AMIf this is a throwaway season, I am immediately benching/cutting/trading:
Nield
Cobb
Stan
Nichols
Moxey
maybe Kyrie

I'm instead starting Singer, Corcoran, Vant, <insert HB here, maybe via trade/couch>, Vaval/the-backup/or-Bonds.  Yes, Corcoran isn't great, but the idea is to shake things up and give the younger guys with maybe some upside more reps.  If they suck, start one of your IMPs or find a dropped DP REC from the last 1-2 seasons -- there's lots.

And Smith and Shay are starters immediately.

As for QB, you make Zach & Dru take pay cuts or they're traded away/cut.  You make Dru sign a 2-3 year deal at a massive discount.  Zach decides what his future is and you lock him into it (probably done after '26).  Then you tell the QBs they stay in and play.  If you get sacked and you are owies, you stay in.  If you don't stay in you're benched/traded/cut.

And I seriously consider starting Elgs.  I don't care how much he sucks.  Tell him it's ok to suck -- we WANT him to suck.  Just get reps and learn on the fly, tell him we have total faith it will make him a legit 2027 starter.  Tell all the fans in every presser and radio show that Elgs is allowed to suck and this is the plan and don't boo him.  Tell them he's the future Rourke and this pain must be tolerated.

If this sounds like a C.Jones "rebuild year", then I guess it is, and I'm finally starting to see why he did it all the time.  Sometimes the play and players are just SO BAD that "there has to be consequences".

Slow roasting Taylor is my preferred path, regardless of how good we are.  Rushing him could cause issues.

Flip side that's the only way to learn.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 01, 2026, 06:20:35 PMAs soon as some new players (and hopefully a new defensive coordinator)gets shuffled into position they'll be latest and greatest best ever also and the told-ya-so's can re-commence. The cycle CNA then continue of pretending to know what he's talking about while simultaneously saying the same thing over and over and over.

None of this is remotely accurate, fair,not called for and borderline personal shot.  Would appreciate that we talk ball / personell changes.

The forum, including me will continue to debate any changes to the team in a subjective manner based on our own personal opinions and varied takes.

No need to be like that.  None of us have all the answers but allowing space for all opinions and posting styles is what makes this place great.  Collectively we boil things down as a group pretty well.

Some like to claim folks as one dimensional or paint them with a single brush, when overtime we all vary in how we support the club, what we post and how we react to the ups and downs this organization has.  The crest of success is behind us and we will all continue to call it like we see it as the next wave builds or crumbles.

Quote from: Tecno on August 02, 2026, 08:14:34 AMIf this is a throwaway season, I am immediately benching/cutting/trading:
Nield
Cobb
Stan
Nichols
Moxey
maybe Kyrie

I'm instead starting Singer, Corcoran, Vant, <insert HB here, maybe via trade/couch>, Vaval/the-backup/or-Bonds.  Yes, Corcoran isn't great, but the idea is to shake things up and give the younger guys with maybe some upside more reps.  If they suck, start one of your IMPs or find a dropped DP REC from the last 1-2 seasons -- there's lots.

And Smith and Shay are starters immediately.

As for QB, you make Zach & Dru take pay cuts or they're traded away/cut.  You make Dru sign a 2-3 year deal at a massive discount.  Zach decides what his future is and you lock him into it (probably done after '26).  Then you tell the QBs they stay in and play.  If you get sacked and you are owies, you stay in.  If you don't stay in you're benched/traded/cut.

And I seriously consider starting Elgs.  I don't care how much he sucks.  Tell him it's ok to suck -- we WANT him to suck.  Just get reps and learn on the fly, tell him we have total faith it will make him a legit 2027 starter.  Tell all the fans in every presser and radio show that Elgs is allowed to suck and this is the plan and don't boo him.  Tell them he's the future Rourke and this pain must be tolerated.

If this sounds like a C.Jones "rebuild year", then I guess it is, and I'm finally starting to see why he did it all the time.  Sometimes the play and players are just SO BAD that "there has to be consequences".

None of this is going to happen. We aren't benching anyone, not MOS style. He'll coach them up. MOS style is to not give up, rather fight until the bitter end with the guys you have.

Elgersma should never see the field again this season. He is beyond brutal/not ready to play.

Defense needs to REALLY pick it up. I expect to see Jones back at MLB, still need to figure out who and how we replace Kramdi as his injury creates ratio issues.

Quote from: dd on August 02, 2026, 04:15:57 PMNone of this is going to happen. We aren't benching anyone, not MOS style. He'll coach them up. MOS style is to not give up, rather fight until the bitter end with the guys you have.

Elgersma should never see the field again this season. He is beyond brutal/not ready to play.

Defense needs to REALLY pick it up. I expect to see Jones back at MLB, still need to figure out who and how we replace Kramdi as his injury creates ratio issues.

Taylor will and should see the field a bit to help his development.  I don't agree with any of your comments on him.  Writing him off way to early.

Yes not ready but needs time and a little game action.

Yes the D needs work big time, figuring out how to deal with Kramdi's absense is a big deal.

MOS might adapt, who knows. 

|Agree with those who have pointed out Nichols and Bryant as significantly underperforming from last year.
Another issue are our defensive linemen who rotate in. Schmeckle and Kornelson were both victimized on running plays down the center. Kornelson in particular was easily manhandled by bc's oline.  Gatkouth also misplayed Horvaths first td run. We need to utilize at least one DI in that position and if it means Ayers sits we are better off.  Currently we may be the only team in the league that tries to go with all nonimports as dline backups. The other factor is the lack of options on the pr, Jenkins is the only defensive lineman available and hes not great.

Quote from: Pete on August 02, 2026, 10:59:27 PM|Agree with those who have pointed out Nichols and Bryant as significantly underperforming from last year.
Another issue are our defensive linemen who rotate in. Schmeckle and Kornelson were both victimized on running plays down the center. Kornelson in particular was easily manhandled by bc's oline.  Gatkouth also misplayed Horvaths first td run. We need to utilize at least one DI in that position and if it means Ayers sits we are better off.  Currently we may be the only team in the league that tries to go with all nonimports as dline backups. The other factor is the lack of options on the pr, Jenkins is the only defensive lineman available and hes not great.

That's the size of it and why I constantly suggest Ayers needs to come off the AR. Of Course we'd need an actual DL to add instead and we don't seem to have that either.

Losing Lawson hurt. Gatkouth is still a rookie learning.

Game 9 is next and that is the veteran cut down date limit. So it's now or never before the next game IIRC. Does O'Shea have the balls to pull the trigger? I'm guessing he doesn't.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 02, 2026, 02:51:09 PMDo we need a FB, a TE, an extra OL and 3 Canadian receivers? It makes our offence very vanilla. We choose to not keep Augustine over MCI and Peterson and switched to an actual TE in the trade off.

Mafia is rolling with what they were given by KW.  Everyone knew the plan going in -- Daniels almost an AR lock, Ike probably in when healthy but might rotate along RR/PR too, and Eli or Vibert as 6th and backup C.

All teams roster a 6th, and many (including us at times) a 7th.  Also normal.

So then your beef is with Ike, but he's a FB who's also a RB so it's no different than the teams ARing 2 RB.  Even more so because some teams roster 1-2 RB and 1-2 FB/TE!!

The only "weird" thing we do is we're maybe 1 (or more) down on most team's AR O count.  They'd have an extra REC or RB or OL.

And again, there's really no other option for MOS/Condell!  Not like any of our NAT PR on O are any better than what we already dress!

Quote from: dd on August 02, 2026, 04:15:57 PMNone of this is going to happen. We aren't benching anyone, not MOS style. He'll coach them up. MOS style is to not give up, rather fight until the bitter end with the guys you have.

I know, I know.  I just was illustrating a possible path I would take if I was C.Jones.

The problem a HC not accepting a "lost season", though, is that you lose all that prep you can do for next season.  Tryouts are valuable.  Live reps for the backups is valuable -- to see who can be cut in FA.

Like it or not MOS isn't like that and so every season is its own thing in isolation and you can't squeeze any more value out of a garbage one.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 03, 2026, 12:37:49 AMGame 9 is next and that is the veteran cut down date limit. So it's now or never before the next game IIRC. Does O'Shea have the balls to pull the trigger? I'm guessing he doesn't.

Is vet cutdown based on game count, or date?  If former then every team has a different date?

Mafia cut A.Bowman and C.Matthews before the vet date in past seasons.  It's entirely possible he does so again.  BUT, he'll only do it for a position where he has a viable backup who has been here from camp.  He'll never airlift in someone to replace the cut vet on AR the very next week.

That means we're probably stuck with Nichols (no viable HB on PR), though Moxey could get the axe (matching the aforementioned examples of underperforming same-year FA pickups).  Stan could get it too, though he'd probably get the respect of 6GIR until after the cup.

Quote from: Tecno on August 03, 2026, 09:50:55 AMMafia is rolling with what they were given by KW.  Everyone knew the plan going in -- Daniels almost an AR lock, Ike probably in when healthy but might rotate along RR/PR too, and Eli or Vibert as 6th and backup C.

All teams roster a 6th, and many (including us at times) a 7th.  Also normal.

So then your beef is with Ike, but he's a FB who's also a RB so it's no different than the teams ARing 2 RB.  Even more so because some teams roster 1-2 RB and 1-2 FB/TE!!

The only "weird" thing we do is we're maybe 1 (or more) down on most team's AR O count.  They'd have an extra REC or RB or OL.

And again, there's really no other option for MOS/Condell!  Not like any of our NAT PR on O are any better than what we already dress!

No, my beef is with the decision to go with a 3 import OL before TC and not find an OL in free agency to upgrade.  My beef is roster decisions across the roster which is something we've discussed in most of 2025 as well. Perhaps even going back to when we rostered an import FB in 2024.

Having 9 LB's on the roster and no DI on offence. I hope we don't see an injury to O. Wilson or White but I'm not optimistic about seeing some version of 4 Canadian receivers for an in game injury situation.  Or an injury to Oliveria and our run game goes to squat.

I'll compare our roster to game 1 in 2025. We had a 3 Canadian OL, 3 import receivers. Oliveria goes down on play 3 but Peterson is on the roster and runs for over 100 yards.

The list goes on.

Don't fixate on the OL ratio. I really like what IMP C buys us. See the ko-man thread for more.

The tradeoff is one for one with the REC spot. Or if we get more creative on the D side, potentially with Smith or Shay.

How about we solve the problem of crap NAT RECS? The huge problem is I think we thought we were getting KSB-lite when in fact we bought a tall ternowski. If we got a real upper-middle nat like Gittens or Brissett or Mital then we'd probably already have more wins.

The OL has problems, but it's not Els.

Oh ya, clearly we've failed at converting to the max dink and dunk O, a la ssk. So the idea of being able to field crap recs and get production is toast.

Busby just got a ton of looks and yards and conversions this weekend and he's complete garbage. Why? Because that's what that o is built for. If we aren't going to revamp to be that O then we need receivers better than busby. Much better.

That leaves out cobb, Nield, and probably Corcoran. Though as the new kid, I'd give him another season to improve. Therefore we need far better Recievers. That will cost us, but all we really need is Woli level. Need to snatch one or two of the 3 names I endlessly repeat. Somehow.

Quote from: Tecno on August 03, 2026, 02:00:49 PMDon't fixate on the OL ratio. I really like what IMP C buys us. See the ko-man thread for more.

The tradeoff is one for one with the REC spot. Or if we get more creative on the D side, potentially with Smith or Shay.

How about we solve the problem of crap NAT RECS? The huge problem is I think we thought we were getting KSB-lite when in fact we bought a tall ternowski. If we got a real upper-middle nat like Gittens or Brissett or Mital then we'd probably already have more wins.

The OL has problems, but it's not Els.

As O'Shea says there is more than one problem. Obviously if our Canadian receivers were better it's a win win. I didn't say Elsbury was a problem but I did ask is he significantly better than our Canadian choices including let Kolo go in free agency.

I think the concern is having a 6th OL, a FB AND a TE.  Yes, you could delete either of the last two, but it does then limit you.

I like the TE use, 6th man or even 7th man in jumbo, but still catches balls.

I like Ike as a backup / change of pace, and he can play teams well, including returns.

And no way you do not dress a 6th OL.

I think this deployment of resources is far from a concern.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 03, 2026, 03:30:21 PMI think the concern is having a 6th OL, a FB AND a TE.  Yes, you could delete either of the last two, but it does then limit you.

I like the TE use, 6th man or even 7th man in jumbo, but still catches balls.

I like Ike as a backup / change of pace, and he can play teams well, including returns.

And no way you do not dress a 6th OL.

I think this deployment of resources is far from a concern.

It is when our offence is not being particularly productive. Blame is spread around to QB, receivers and OL. Defences can stack the box against our offence.

The past three games have been awful, and yet the roster stays mostly the same. Offense has no identity, still dressing Cobb as a starter, OL can't run block. Defense has flashes but can't create a turnover if their life depended on it. If the team keeps dragging out the same lineup, every member of this staff deserves to have their seat turned up

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 03, 2026, 02:38:03 PMAs O'Shea says there is more than one problem. Obviously if our Canadian receivers were better it's a win win. I didn't say Elsbury was a problem but I did ask is he significantly better than our Canadian choices including let Kolo go in free agency.

Think back to the games before Zach was hurt.  Pass pro was exceptional, especially in the interior.  Really it's only been Stan getting burnt.

It wasn't until injuries on the OL and changing QB that pass pro started going down.

So ya, I'd consider Els "significantly better" than Ko-man, who made the same mistakes season after season.  And Els has upside and is half the Ko-man price.  Els also was starting to make inroads on run block too, and he was already at Ko-man levels.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 03, 2026, 03:45:40 PMIt is when our offence is not being particularly productive. Blame is spread around to QB, receivers and OL. Defences can stack the box against our offence.

Every single person on O is underperforming.  And if everyone is doing that, even just a bit, then that tips the balance into making the whole O look bad.  This includes the OC and MOS, and all the sub-unit coaches.

Ya, it's easy to point at Stan, or Cobb, or the QB-du-jour, or even Nield.  But while some are more to blame than others, the truth is if 1-2 guys were bad, the others being exceptional would cover for it and we'd still win.

Football is very much a snowball effect thing.  If you start rolling down the crap side of the hill you're pretty much doomed to crap.  Or if you're SSK and you're already rolling down the good side, you look like world beaters even though you're not that great.  You can see it in player morale -- it's a real effect.  And it's exceptionally hard to pull yourself up and onto the good side.

When you think you're going to win and deserve to win, you usually win.

Who is our replacement for Griffen if his injury keeps him out for another couple weeks, Wilson is our weak link right now. So do we move Jones to MLB and start Woodbey?

Quote from: Blue72 on August 05, 2026, 12:00:57 AMWho is our replacement for Griffen if his injury keeps him out for another couple weeks, Wilson is our weak link right now. So do we move Jones to MLB and start Woodbey?

Woodbey needs a couple more games to get up to speed imo

Quote from: DM83 on August 05, 2026, 12:59:24 AMDd has quoted some good changes.

I love the. But they are done. There are so many needs it's a very poor team. We will be lucky tomfinjsn 8. But we gave that to Ottawa didn't we.?  Doesn't.matter. They need imports.mthose who say they can't bring guys in during the bye, are nuts. The next guy tells him what play to run. 

We are feeble in a number of positions. Defensively  younger is stupid. Whoever put that. D line together should gomandget a job. They are *****. Nichols is a scared old man. Please resign and go away.. bring back Leggett. There will be tons of guys who can play., it's America. There are hundreds of guys  for one position.

Hard to make out much of this.

Younger is not stupid, shows no respect.

Nichols isn't scared he is at the tail end of a good career.  Who do you suggest replaces him?  You don't get better by deletion unless the replacement is better and our cupboard is bare.

Leggett hasn't played since 2019 and is 39.

Now I have heard it all.

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 05, 2026, 03:17:19 AMHard to make out much of this.

Younger is not stupid, shows no respect.

Nichols isn't scared he is at the tail end of a good career.  Who do you suggest replaces him?  You don't get better by deletion unless the replacement is better and our cupboard is bare.

Leggett hasn't played since 2019 and is 39.

Now I have heard it all.

In fairness we don't know what we've got on the PR until they play a full role. Not many excel immediately but M. Williams has shown well in his rookie season. It's not entirely impossible that Jackson or Texada might be good players.

If they are not, then the question is why aren't we adding newbies to the PR. Should be lots of UFL players and early NFL cuts available.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 05, 2026, 01:40:27 PMIn fairness we don't know what we've got on the PR until they play a full role. Not many excel immediately but M. Williams has shown well in his rookie season. It's not entirely impossible that Jackson or Texada might be good players.

If they are not, then the question is why aren't we adding newbies to the PR. Should be lots of UFL players and early NFL cuts available.

Texada might be ok but is < Nichols right now imo

Jackson I know nothing about

Yeah we gotta go hunting but those faces likely for next year unless find a diamond in the rough

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 05, 2026, 01:40:27 PMIn fairness we don't know what we've got on the PR until they play a full role. Not many excel immediately but M. Williams has shown well in his rookie season. It's not entirely impossible that Jackson or Texada might be good players.

If they are not, then the question is why aren't we adding newbies to the PR. Should be lots of UFL players and early NFL cuts available.

Maybe they need to change their approach but it hasn't been their policy to bring in a stream of new players to challenge for positions during the current season. They do bring in a few later in the fall but it's always aimed at the next season.

Williams leaping from rookie to starter is the exception, even Ty Ford had to wait a year.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 05, 2026, 03:10:04 PMMaybe they need to change their approach but it hasn't been their policy to bring in a stream of new players to challenge for positions during the current season. They do bring in a few later in the season but it's always aimed at the next season.

Williams leaping from rookie to starter is the exception, even Ty Ford had to wait a year.

Good way to rush players that are not ready / give them a fair shake, the slow roast works but has now failed due to less quality in the pipe / aging team / injuries.

If they ballers yes, but often ballers need seasoning.  Ford is a great example of someone who benefited from the slow roast imo.  Just got too $.  Roast em slow, sign em low (early) lol.

Oilers a prime example of frying good young talent.  Also let a few studs go after letting them cook too long in the A lol.  Fine line.

Quote from: Blue72 on August 05, 2026, 12:00:57 AMWho is our replacement for Griffen if his injury keeps him out for another couple weeks, Wilson is our weak link right now. So do we move Jones to MLB and start Woodbey?

Smith would start at SLB for Griffen.

I think there needs to be an adjustment to our defensive strategy. What that change would be could be many things but we haven't seen any fundamental change since the beginning of the season IMO. Injury dictates some possible changes but aside from that I think we see more of the same.

If we're talking in dream scenarios...
1. Sign Diego Pavia (probably have to make a very difficult cut with another QB). Can't see him taking the paycut, but this would be the best competition that he could face while he's keeping an eye out for an NFL job.
2. Griffin to safety and Smith at LB (or maybe Ball steps up into the safety spot). I'd also be happy with Smith replacing Wilson, and then getting Cam Allen back out at safety if he's healthy.
3. Start one more import WR in Dorian Singer. Probably means we need to start one additional Canadian OL or DL. I think DL would be my preference.
4. Somehow get MOS to loosen up a little and implement some risk-taking!

Let's slow down the promotion of Smith. In my rewatch he was getting mentally fooled all the time. He'd bite inside on nearly every outside run. He was a major part of second level contain, and his stupidity is a huge part of why we lost.

I'm not too upset though, because he's fairly new. But I would be scaling back his duties, not increasing them.

Quote from: Tecno on August 07, 2026, 01:49:50 AMLet's slow down the promotion of Smith. In my rewatch he was getting mentally fooled all the time. He'd bite inside on nearly every outside run. He was a major part of second level contain, and his stupidity is a huge part of why we lost.

I'm not too upset though, because he's fairly new. But I would be scaling back his duties, not increasing them.

Yeah, that's what I thought and I noticed it on at least a couple of plays. I'm not sure we can scale back his duties while it appears we may have lost Griffin this game.

It's not even really about promoting Smith though. It's - is the trade off on D (which hasn't been good) - going to be worse than the benefits of bringing on an extra American on O (which needs help).

Quote from: Jesse on August 07, 2026, 12:33:06 PMIt's not even really about promoting Smith though. It's - is the trade off on D (which hasn't been good) - going to be worse than the benefits of bringing on an extra American on O (which needs help).

A better offence keeps the opponent off the field more often. So that's a bit hard to calculate the trade off for another import on offence that hasn't played in a game yet.  Same issue with a defensive player being added from the PR. Not much if any experience for those choices.

Bombers know that they can't cut Walters or MOS because they still have two more years on their contracts. So that means they would have to pay for that to happen. So they can't afford to bring in anyone and still have cap.

Not sure if its MOS stubbornest to cut Vets or his coaches telling him to keep the wrong guys?

Is it MOS can't pick the right guys to keep from TC and game day rosters anymore? With all the guys brought in to camp, K Wilson, Bryant, Nichols, Moxie are better than anyone brought in?

Did Moxie even have competition in camp or was he just handed to job?

Good to see they got back de Matt Jaworski who was on the retired list. I think they were counting on him during the offseason and were disappointed when he decided not to come,

Here is a combination of changes which I'll take a lot of flack for suggesting.

1. Moxey to DHB replacing Nichols.
2. Nichols to RR
3. Vaval to CB
4. Womack to AR as primary returner and a possible rotational player / injury replacement at receiver.

I still think neither Nichols or Moxey are as big a problem as perceived. IMO it's as much soft coverage strategy causing lots of issues.

However, let's assume neither is playing up to snuff. In that sense, Moxey seems to be less of an issue than Nichols.

Moxey has experience at CB, DHB and SAM. So there is some chance he might be considered to start at SAM although that leaves Woodbey without a starting role. IMO Woodbey will be starting.

It was mentioned that we don't want to see Vaval in a dual role and that he's not as good as Moxey in replacement. It becomes whether a Vaval Moxey combo is better than a Moxey Nichols combo.

We don't know much about Womack other than he's a receiver that also returns. He could spell Vaval from the dual role, or he could be a great new returner going forward.

Nobody is convinced that Texada or Jackson are any immediate help, so these are alternate choices.

There are many variants to this combination of changes. For example we could just add Womack to the roster since we expect Griffin to come off. Singer saw duty in both re season games as a punt and K/O returner. He also saw duty as a receiver.

That at least gives us an opportunity to test one rookie against a bad Redblack team. This is the week to test something.

And yes I see cons to each of these suggestions but do we want to stand pat?

After this game we play Edmonton, Montreal, Riders and Riders.

Yeah I don't think we'd see that many changes. If you don't like Moxey at corner he'll do worse at half. Vaval is the best returner in the league and he's absolutely not the best corner. That move doesn't make sense.

I wouldn't overthink it. Just replace Nichols with whomever is next up at half and cut or IR him depending on how he takes it.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 08, 2026, 10:15:21 PMHere is a combination of changes which I'll take a lot of flack for suggesting.

1. Moxey to DHB replacing Nichols.
2. Nichols to RR
3. Vaval to CB
4. Womack to AR as primary returner and a possible rotational player / injury replacement at receiver.

I still think neither Nichols or Moxey are as big a problem as perceived. IMO it's as much soft coverage strategy causing lots of issues.

However, let's assume neither is playing up to snuff. In that sense, Moxey seems to be less of an issue than Nichols.

Moxey has experience at CB, DHB and SAM. So there is some chance he might be considered to start at SAM although that leaves Woodbey without a starting role. IMO Woodbey will be starting.

It was mentioned that we don't want to see Vaval in a dual role and that he's not as good as Moxey in replacement. It becomes whether a Vaval Moxey combo is better than a Moxey Nichols combo.

We don't know much about Womack other than he's a receiver that also returns. He could spell Vaval from the dual role, or he could be a great new returner going forward.

Nobody is convinced that Texada or Jackson are any immediate help, so these are alternate choices.

There are many variants to this combination of changes. For example we could just add Womack to the roster since we expect Griffin to come off. Singer saw duty in both re season games as a punt and K/O returner. He also saw duty as a receiver.

That at least gives us an opportunity to test one rookie against a bad Redblack team. This is the week to test something.

And yes I see cons to each of these suggestions but do we want to stand pat?

After this game we play Edmonton, Montreal, Riders and Riders.

I've seen no indications Moxey is a physical DB, so moving him to HB or SAM would not be the best idea.

I like the idea of Nichols out Vaval in. Nichols ihasnt been getting it done all season, Vaval is the better athlete and has more speed.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 08, 2026, 11:02:24 PMI've seen no indications Moxey is a physical DB, so moving him to HB or SAM would not be the best idea.

We aren't seeing that from Nichols either. IIRC Moxey has been a physical player in the past. I mentioned he has played SAM and DHB.

I'd be all for replacing Nichols with an unknown player we stashed on our PR. Of the 2 choices on our PR, neither seems to be that candidate.

That's also why I asked whether a Vaval Moxey combo would be better than the current combo.

I am expecting a mini airlift for our PR if the coaches are less content with a status quo.

Quote from: dd on August 09, 2026, 03:49:25 AMI like the idea of Nichols out Vaval in. Nichols ihasnt been getting it done all season, Vaval is the better athlete and has more speed.

Can't agree, Vaval gives the offence a head start with every return in both distance and energy, not too long ago they were limited to average returns of 8-10 yards in the time before Grant. The last thing they need is to increase Vaval's risk of injury by filling 2 roles, which is probably pretty high with the dangerous way he returns kicks. Remember Buck lost Grant for over half a season trying to run a few gimmick plays with him.

Nichols and Holm do a fair bit of RB tackling every game which seems odd but with Younger's system the HB's plug the gaps when the LB's are MIA.  Vaval maybe weighs 170 lbs, so he might lack the physicality to deal with the heavier traffic inside.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 09, 2026, 02:41:16 PMCan't agree, Vaval gives the offence a head start with every return in both distance and energy, not too long ago they were limited to average returns of 8-10 yards in the time before Grant. The last thing they need is to increase Vaval's risk of injury by filling 2 roles, which is probably pretty high with the dangerous way he returns kicks. Remember Buck lost Grant for over half a season trying to run a few gimmick plays with him.

Nichols and Holm do a fair bit of RB tackling every game which seems odd but with Younger's system the HB's plug the gaps when the LB's are MIA.  Vaval maybe weighs 170 lbs, so he might lack the physicality to deal with the traffic inside.

That's the risk reward issue with letting Vaval have a dual role. While he did start at CB for a few games last year, I don't know if he's seeing defensive reps in practice or is actually an upgrade in the secondary.

The same is true about Womack as a returner. He could be the next Vaval as a returner or the next guy on the bus out of town.

Has anybody seen him in any practices? Keeping in mind that nobody knew who Vaval was until he beat out Logan in 2025.

Every player on the roster can be injured on any given play or even in practice.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 09, 2026, 01:28:25 PMWe aren't seeing that from Nichols either. IIRC Moxey has been a physical player in the past. I mentioned he has played SAM and DHB.

I'd be all for replacing Nichols with an unknown player we stashed on our PR. Of the 2 choices on our PR, neither seems to be that candidate.

That's also why I asked whether a Vaval Moxey combo would be better than the current combo.

I am expecting a mini airlift for our PR if the coaches are less content with a status quo.

I've noticed quite a few times Moxey watching teammates making tackles, either he's nursing an injury or he's not enthusiastic to get involved.  Thinking back to past Ti-Cat secondaries, pre-Katsantonis low involvement seemed to be their modus operandi.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 09, 2026, 02:50:59 PMI've noticed quite a few times Moxey watching teammates making tackles, either he's nursing an injury or he's not enthusiastic to get involved.  Thinking back to past Ti-Cat secondaries, pre-Katsantonis low involvement seemed to be their modus operandi.

All the more reason to bring in a 2 or 3 new players at DB. Whether that is TC cuts or recent NFL free agents.

I'd put Petersen in at running back get some receivers . And offensive coordinator will have to change his game last two games he's running really bad pass pattern plays.  And passing short out passes is a waste unless someone's open. But our receivers can't break tackles and run fast. White going deep is never really open.

Quote from: buckzumhoff on August 09, 2026, 05:03:08 PMI'd put Petersen in at running back get some receivers . And offensive coordinator will have to change his game last two games he's running really bad pass pattern plays.  And passing short out passes is a waste unless someone's open. But our receivers can't break tackles and run fast. White going deep is never really open.

Petersen over whom at RB?

Quote from: RebusRankin on August 09, 2026, 06:13:49 PMPetersen over whom at RB?

Oliveira lol. All of these cheaper guys are absolutely destroying the "best running back in league" this year by a wide margin.

At least Petersen can run off tackle.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 09, 2026, 06:19:45 PMOliveira lol. All of these cheaper guys are absolutely destroying the "best running back in league" this year by a wide margin.

At least Petersen can run off tackle.

But Brady is the best running back in the league, blah, blah, blah....what a joke that is.

Quote from: dd on August 09, 2026, 08:02:53 PMBut Brady is the best running back in the league, blah, blah, blah....what a joke that is.

If he rushes for 49 yard in this next game he will be the # 1 yardage rusher in 9 games. At the moment he sits at # 3 but has played 1 game less than Mills or Theis.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 09, 2026, 08:25:20 PMIf he rushes for 49 yard in this next game he will be the # 1 yardage rusher in 9 games. At the moment he sits at # 3 but has played 1 game less than Mills or Theis.

I see Rankin dropping fast from first to fourth.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 09, 2026, 06:19:45 PMOliveira lol. All of these cheaper guys are absolutely destroying the "best running back in league" this year by a wide margin.

At least Petersen can run off tackle.

Trolling?

Petersen is a JAG.

Quote from: dd on August 09, 2026, 08:02:53 PMBut darling Brady is the best running back in the league, blah, blah, blah....what a joke that is.

Over the past few years, he has been.

We all know he doesn't have the top end speed of some other guys. It's a coaching fail that we don't utilize other guys for that role. There is still not a more complete back in the league though. Even with our complaints over his utilization, he's still leading the league in rushing yards (on a per game basis), with one of the top averages.

Brady's problem isn't that he won't get decent yards, it's that he'll almost never bust 40 yarders like the top guys do. And he's pretty useless in the red zone... How many rushing TDs in the last 2 years?

Worse, is he is very bad at 2nd and short. He got stuffed so many times we rarely use him that way now.

He is also the easiest to tackle now, just touch his legs. His balance isn't great. He is often picking the wrong holes.

It's costing us every game. I'm not saying he's horrible, but he isn't good enough for the price. Not with almost every team having better guys at a third the price.

Lastly, Brady will never have a 200 yard, 60y runs game like Horvath just did, and Rankin does regularly.

Quote from: Tecno on August 09, 2026, 10:59:28 PMBrady's problem isn't that he won't get decent yards, it's that he'll almost never bust 40 yarders like the top guys do. And he's pretty useless in the red zone... How many rushing TDs in the last 2 years?

Worse, is he is very bad at 2nd and short. He got stuffed so many times we rarely use him that way now.

He is also the easiest to tackle now, just touch his legs. His balance isn't great. He is often picking the wrong holes.

It's costing us every game. I'm not saying he's horrible, but he isn't good enough for the price. Not with almost every team having better guys at a third the price.

Lastly, Brady will never have a 200 yard, 60y runs game like Horvath just did, and Rankin does regularly.

Ottawa-Bell and Adebobyo = Nope
Toronto-Hicks and Smith-Nope
Hamilton-RoundtreE and Augustine-No
Montreal-Theis-He's good but I'll say no
Saskatchewan-Ouellete-Nope
BC-Butler-No

Mills and Rankin-You can make a case.

I'd say you're wrong that almost every team has a back better than Brady.

As for the third of the price comment, Brady is at $290,000, so a third is about 97k but let's round it up to 100k

Bell, Mills, Ouellete, Rankin, Leake, Butler, Adebobye all make over 100k.

So you're wrong on that too.

Brady and Mills are producing about the same right now.

Rankin and Theis have a half yard more per carry this year.

Brady is the only one doing it for the past 5 years. Other contenders rise and fall. Brady is always there.

Quote from: RebusRankin on August 10, 2026, 12:12:38 AMOttawa-Bell and Adebobyo = Nope
Toronto-Hicks and Smith-Nope

Lol, start with the worst ones...

Quote from: RebusRankin on August 10, 2026, 12:12:38 AMHamilton-RoundtreE and Augustine-No
Montreal-Theis-He's good but I'll say no
Saskatchewan-Ouellete-Nope
BC-Butler-No

You forget what Rountree did to us in week 2??  He trounced us that game and Brady didn't do much to help us win.

Theis?  He's way better so far this season than Brady.  Go read the MTL GDT threads each week.  There's always comments on what he's doing.  Dude is pulling off miracles and bouncing off D's like he's Pinball.  Oh ya, and they also have Scott III (when he's not hurt) who ripped us a new one in the ESF and is a great back.

Ouellette this year and last, when he's not hurt, is (and I really hate to say this) much better than Brady.  Mostly due to having the best RB coach in the league.  He's getting all the hard yards, hurdling, plowing, spinning.  Seen Brady spin or hurdle lately?  I think he spins once a season.

Forget Butler (who is not good), and look at Horvath.  Dude just had a game vs us that Brady could only ever dream of having.  Did you see how he outran every single player on our D who were full spriting?  You think Brady can do that?  And that was before our D was tired, on his first big run!

Mills is basically the same back as Brady.  That's a wash.

McAllister, if you can call him a RB, ripped us a new one 3 different ways, and like Horvath, is miles faster than Brady.

Rankin is a wunderkind who is clearly the best RB this season.  Teams now devote 2 or 3 players to stopping him on every snap.  Even when he's not getting yards he's opening everything up for mediocre Cody and that middling REC corps.  And they have Leake too!

Quote from: RebusRankin on August 10, 2026, 12:12:38 AMAs for the third of the price comment, Brady is at $290,000, so a third is about 97k but let's round it up to 100k

Bell, Mills, Ouellete, Rankin, Leake, Butler, Adebobye all make over 100k.

So you're wrong on that too.

Nice math.  How much more than $100k?  Maybe $120k for most?  $135 for the GC winning Oullette?  Ooh, then Brady makes 2.5X - 3X than them.  Big difference.  The point still stands.  Even if Brady only made only $100k more, that's a lot of SMS you need to justify.

I don't see how one can be a watcher of every CFL game and not see how in many games these other teams' backs are making a huge, game-breaking difference.  No, not every game, but the best are causing their teams to win at least a few.  Brady's had maybe 1 good game this season where he was key to our win.  The others are simply more impactful, sorry!

I don't care about any of the stats.  I'm looking at are these guys getting the tough conversions on 2nd & 4.  Are they regularly busting 30Y runs?  Are they getting TDs, or close enough to the GL that the SY can come in?  Do they get stuffed at important moments, or do they make sure they get what is needed?  Can they run when the other team is stuffing the box (Brady: no)?  Are they a threat outside too?  Or just let the entire D key on the A&B gaps?

Probably most importantly, are D's still keying on Brady, and dedicating extra resources to stopping him?  Are they honoring the RPO threat?  No.  Teams just decide pre-snap if it's going to be a Brady run (with 80% accuracy somehow) and then stuff the box.  And if not, they don't honor any RPO and everyone drops back.  (That's partly why our RB draws have been pretty successful.)  This is a far cry from 3 years ago when TSN would talk nonstop about how every D needs to spend mega-resources accounting for Brady.  Even Suits doesn't mention that anymore...

I watch every game and I see the outsized impact many of these backs are having.  Brady is not doing the same.  No, it's not every game, but it's enough games to stand out.

Jesse is correct that Brady is certainly more available.  And that's a definite +1.  Because otherwise you need 2 great backs like MTL has -- otherwise you face a SSK situation where your backup backs are garbage.  Kudos to Brady for better training and conditioning.  However, that still doesn't always help you win games if you aren't making the tough yards.

Think back to how AH would help win so many games in the late stages.  I can really only think of 2-3 games in Brady's entire career where he singlehandedly did that.  Think of all the cups we lost with Brady.  2 of the 3 were partly due to Brady not being able to rip off multiple 1st downs near the end -- we lost winnable games because we couldn't drive the ball when ahead, and most of those started with mediocre Brady runs.

Maybe we need to face it, that Brady is a good, sturdy and reliable back, but not a super wunderkind one.  We can't rely on him to close out games, and we need to not think of him as AH.  He should just be a piece of the puzzle and not the centerpiece that HE wants to be and that many think he is.  And, as a result, maybe he should get paid more like any other piece, plus a normal NAT bonus.

You're comparing apples to oranges comparing Brady to AH. Look at the O-line AH ran behind compared to ours. Look at the receivers we had then. Many of them were deep threats that did not allow DBs and linebackers to cheat as much towards the box. Some, like Bailey were much better blockers than our current receivers as well. AH also had a much younger ZC8, who was a better passer and a more mobile QB, as well as a healthy Strev, who was a threat to run when he came on, which opened things up for AH. I don't think Brady is worth his contract (I think Miller stepped in and told Walters to pay him for marketing reasons), but he's made to look worse than he is in our current offense.

3) RB Dedrick Mills, Calgary Stampeders (A)

Hard money: $173,000
Maximum value: $196,000

The native of Waycross, Ga. was named All-CFL in 2025, leading to a significant raise from the Stampeders. Mills collected a $55,000 signing bonus to ink a two-year extension and will earn an additional $85,000 in salary, $15,000 in marketing, $15,000 in housing, and $3,000 in travel in 2026. He can also earn up to $17,000 in statistical incentives — including $5,000 for reaching 1,000 rushing yards — and $6,000 in awards incentives.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 09, 2026, 06:19:45 PMOliveira lol. All of these cheaper guys are absolutely destroying the "best running back in league" this year by a wide margin.

At least Petersen can run off tackle.

An absolutely terrible idea.  Take off one of the best ever CDN backs for a guy that has done nothing consistently.  Brady's running style is nothing but proven, consistent and reliable.  He is an incredible blocker.

I do like Peterson but he will wait his turn.

Quote from: dd on August 09, 2026, 08:02:53 PMBut Brady is the best running back in the league, blah, blah, blah....what a joke that is.

Nope it's not a joke, it was a proven fact and this year he still has time to keep his title.  He is not at the top right now but with a healthy Zach and OL with improved play he can still cook.

Both of you kicking a star when he is down and I agree with nothing said here.

Brady's yards and average speak for itself.  I really like when one's position is backed by stats/facts.

Quote from: bunker on August 10, 2026, 01:51:13 AMYou're comparing apples to oranges comparing Brady to AH. Look at the O-line AH ran behind compared to ours. Look at the receivers we had then. Many of them were deep threats that did not allow DBs and linebackers to cheat as much towards the box. Some, like Bailey were much better blockers than our current receivers as well. AH also had a much younger ZC8, who was a better passer and a more mobile QB, as well as a healthy Strev, who was a threat to run when he came on, which opened things up for AH. I don't think Brady is worth his contract (I think Miller stepped in and told Walters to pay him for marketing reasons), but he's made to look worse than he is in our current offense.

Brady is better than AH, we're just not the same team we were then.

Andrew is just tech's favourite player.

Quote from: Jesse on August 10, 2026, 12:32:00 AMBrady and Mills are producing about the same right now.

Rankin and Theis have a half yard more per carry this year.

Brady is the only one doing it for the past 5 years. Other contenders rise and fall. Brady is always there.

Mills has been in the league 5 years, last season was the first time he stayed healthy for all 18 games, so durability has been an ongoing issue.

Quote from: Jesse on August 10, 2026, 03:07:32 AMBrady is better than AH, we're just not the same team we were then.

Andrew is just tech's favourite player.

True, AH used to be my avatar here.  I am biased.  But all I want is for WFC to win, and if Brady does that then he can be my favorite player.  But he doesn't.

As for our team being worse now.  Ya, ok.  Except I will point out that AH33 was lighting it up here in '18, and arguably '17 (and certainly '19 before Zach showed up!) while we were still building a respectable team -- and with "lowly" Matt Nichols!
Or are some of you going to have to admit Matty Ice (my 2nd fave player!) was a good QB?

Were the '17 Bombers better or worse than '26 Bombers??  Because if they're roughly the same, there's your apples to apples comparison to judge AH vs Brady!

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 10, 2026, 03:25:09 AMMills has been in the league 5 years, last season was the first time he stayed healthy for all 18 games, so durability has been an ongoing issue.

Again, Mills is like the worst comparison because he's basically "IMP Brady".  He's not blowing up anything anymore.  He's had 1 game where he really impacted things, just like Brady.

So if Mills is the 2nd highest paid RB, I still don't care, because the guys lighting it up right now are all newer guys (and always-hurt Oullette) who aren't making $300k.

Everyone imagine if we had Rankin right now.  You think our RECs would be much more open on short routes??  You know, the thing we struggle with because Brady isn't drawing coverage?

Quote from: Tecno on August 10, 2026, 03:44:58 AMTrue, AH used to be my avatar here.  I am biased.  But all I want is for WFC to win, and if Brady does that then he can be my favorite player.  But he doesn't.

As for our team being worse now.  Ya, ok.  Except I will point out that AH33 was lighting it up here in '18, and arguably '17 (and certainly '19 before Zach showed up!) while we were still building a respectable team -- and with "lowly" Matt Nichols!
Or are some of you going to have to admit Matty Ice (my 2nd fave player!) was a good QB?

Were the '17 Bombers better or worse than '26 Bombers??  Because if they're roughly the same, there's your apples to apples comparison to judge AH vs Brady!

Matty Ice was a great player and the '17 and '18 Bombers were much better teams than the last couple of years.

I'll give you Rankin and maybe Theis over Brady, with Mills as a wash but that's not most of the league as you stated Techno.

Now if you were going to argue that Brady costs us about 100,000 more than other top level running backs and that hurts us overall, I'd agree.

But if I am naming guys who are overpaid for what they are giving us the list starts with Bryant (should have retired), Nichols (looks done), Collaros (MOP Zach was a long time ago), Moxey (he's either clueless or does not give a ...).

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a speedy/shifty back to compliment Brady and make our run plays less predictable... but that's so low on the priority chart right now.

Brady has been labouring with many different QB's, many different Olinemen, and still finds a way to produce.

Sorry, he's never coming out of the lineup.  Neither is Demski, we are blessed to have these guys as 2/7ths of our starting NATs.

Would have liked to see Gino signed during the bye, to get him up to speed.

Wilson, Demski, White, Gino, Clercius/Neild would be a pretty solid corps.

Quote from: RebusRankin on August 10, 2026, 02:53:20 PMI'll give you Rankin and maybe Theis over Brady, with Mills as a wash but that's not most of the league as you stated Techno.

Now if you were going to argue that Brady costs us about 100,000 more than other top level running backs and that hurts us overall, I'd agree.

But if I am naming guys who are overpaid for what they are giving us the list starts with Bryant (should have retired), Nichols (looks done), Collaros (MOP Zach was a long time ago), Moxey (he's either clueless or does not give a ...).

You're right. There are definitely bigger problems. Having a running back who could attack with speed and run with less predictability would help open things up on offense, though. Brady is just so slow that we're constantly trying to x and o our way out of stacked boxes and it's a struggle. Putting Collaros back in there with him only compounds the problem and makes things so easy for opposing DCs. It's causing all sorts of trouble for us.

I haven't seen the IR report yet but it sounds as though we might get Lawson back. I doubt we see Kramdi back after losing Griffin.

So the only changes will be due to IR players getting healthy or new ones added to IR.

A musical chairs option for someone to come off the PR replacing the spot left by Griffin injury.

I'm liking the idea of adding Jaworski but he's probably not in game shape.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 10, 2026, 05:28:39 PMYou're right. There are definitely bigger problems. Having a running back who could attack with speed and run with less predictability would help open things up on offense, though. Brady is just so slow that we're constantly trying to x and o our way out of stacked boxes and it's a struggle. Putting Collaros back in there with him only compounds the problem and makes things so easy for opposing DCs. It's causing all sorts of trouble for us.

I don't agree with some of this but you do present some good takes.

Not a great chance of things turning around quickly but it might If....
1. OL stays healthy and plays better
2. Zach finds med to long targets more often
3. Brady cooks late in games when we are up as we run it up the gut and stomp the throat, aka Bbb

I said it before and I'll say it again, this club needs above average OL play, bombs and runs.  A tall order but that's my formula for success.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 10, 2026, 04:41:09 PMBrady has been labouring with many different QB's, many different Olinemen, and still finds a way to produce.

Sorry, he's never coming out of the lineup.  Neither is Demski, we are blessed to have these guys as 2/7ths of our starting NATs.

Would have liked to see Gino signed during the bye, to get him up to speed.

Wilson, Demski, White, Gino, Clercius/Neild would be a pretty solid corps.

Bang on, the criticism of Brady is overstated imo.

Happy we said no to Geno lol

You are correct about being blessed with Brady and Demski.  We will look back when we are old and gray and reminse about how great these guys were.  Ok I'm already grayish lol.

Looks like Brown will be able to be # 2 QB according to reports. Collaros, Brown and Broxton will return. That will help.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 10, 2026, 11:13:45 PMLooks like Brown will be able to be # 2 QB according to reports. Collaros, Brown and Broxton will return. That will help.

Brown and Lawson in full uniform at today's practice, showed up in the background of Younger's interview.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 10, 2026, 11:13:45 PMLooks like Brown will be able to be # 2 QB according to reports. Collaros, Brown and Broxton will return. That will help.

I hope so! We're all dying to see the verdict as to which qb goes to RR....or PR!

The pressers today mos and younger basically spelled out its Smith starting at dime. Bit odd of mafia to leak chart changes that early...

Quote from: Tecno on August 11, 2026, 03:24:06 AMThe pressers today mos and younger basically spelled out its Smith starting at dime. Bit odd of mafia to leak chart changes that early...

Then what is Woodbey doing and what import gets added to the AR?  Maybe not totally back up to game speed so he's just the rotational player.

If Smith is starting that is a ratio change or at least a shift from a Canadian DL marked as a starter. Perhaps 2 import DT's?

I'm guessing Elgersma gets bumped to the RR. I would have thought Vanterpool would be RR but they already moved Vibert there so that's in limbo.

Quote from: Tecno on August 11, 2026, 03:24:06 AMThe pressers today mos and younger basically spelled out its Smith starting at dime. Bit odd of mafia to leak chart changes that early...

I'm hoping somehow this allows us to get three Americans in at receiver. The defense needs to carry some ratio. I'd be okay trying to jam essentially all the Canadians on offense if we had a dominate defense, but it's very clear we do not. Something needs to give.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 11, 2026, 01:22:15 PMI'm hoping somehow this allows us to get three Americans in at receiver. The defense needs to carry some ratio. I'd be okay trying to jam essentially all the Canadians on offense if we had a dominate defense, but it's very clear we do not. Something needs to give.

It would allow that to happen but it seems so unlike O'Shea to do that.

They should put Singer in for receiver take out Nield. Put in some receivers off the practice roster. Why keep playing the same guys all the time.

Quote from: buckzumhoff on August 11, 2026, 01:54:39 PMThey should put Singer in for receiver take out Nield. Put in some receivers off the practice roster. Why keep playing the same guys all the time.

Nield is a better choice on the AR than Cobb. Regardless if they add Singer than the other Canadian receiver is essentially the 5th look.

Offence still looked the same as always at practice. Woodbey is coming on for Griffin and Smith does the same thing as always.

Quote from: Jesse on August 11, 2026, 02:17:49 PMOffence still looked the same as always at practice. Woodbey is coming on for Griffin and Smith does the same thing as always.

If it ain't broke...

I would assume they want to start an American at safety with Kramdi out of the lineup.
Or they just keep it all the same. Smith was the backup at that position. We'll still see a ton of Woodbey either way.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 11, 2026, 02:16:31 PMNield is a better choice on the AR than Cobb. Regardless if they add Singer than the other Canadian receiver is essentially the 5th look.

If Singer comes on he's still the 5th read.

Quote from: LXTSN on August 11, 2026, 04:29:48 PMI would assume they want to start an American at safety with Kramdi out of the lineup.
Or they just keep it all the same. Smith was the backup at that position. We'll still see a ton of Woodbey either way.

We don't have one to add.

Quote from: Jesse on August 11, 2026, 04:41:09 PMIf Singer comes on he's still the 5th read.

There would be no point in adding him to do that. We'd be better served adding another DL to rotate and keep players fresh.

Quote from: Jesse on August 11, 2026, 04:41:09 PMIf Singer comes on he's still the 5th read.

I know you know this but passing plays aren't called based on the receiver depth chart. Singer's speed would add another dimension and you'd be able to call plays with him being the first read that you can't with Cobb or Corcoran or whatever. I get it that we do have three good receivers on the field most downs but I still like giving Condell more options. He's sure boxed into a corner this year and does the defense reallllllly need another rotational piece?

The only way Singer see's the field is if either Wilson or White get injured.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 11, 2026, 06:43:04 PMI know you know this but passing plays aren't called based on the receiver depth chart. Singer's speed would add another dimension and you'd be able to call plays with him being the first read that you can't with Cobb or Corcoran or whatever. I get it that we do have three good receivers on the field most downs but I still like giving Condell more options. He's sure boxed into a corner this year and does the defense reallllllly need another rotational piece?

I guess I just don't know if he's that guy. We haven't been successful at deep shots and I'm not sure if the reason is Wilson or White aren't fast enough.

Quote from: Jesse on August 11, 2026, 07:31:25 PMI guess I just don't know if he's that guy. We haven't been successful at deep shots and I'm not sure if the reason is Wilson or White aren't fast enough.

Wilson and White are great and if had one more of them on the game day roster I think it would make a difference. We need to score points because if JY can't stop BCs third stringer he's not going to stop anyone.  The game that Wilson went down basically tied us in knots and the defense isn't going to win us anything this year. We can't afford to play the position on a razers edge at 4-4.

Quote from: dd on August 11, 2026, 06:57:06 PMThe only way Singer see's the field is if either Wilson or White get injured.

At worst he could be used in rotation. It doesn't take an injury to have that happen.

Whether he's added to the roster we'll see, but I'm guessing an import gets added on defence.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 11, 2026, 09:08:09 PMAt worst he could be used in rotation. It doesn't take an injury to have that happen.

Whether he's added to the roster we'll see, but I'm guessing an import gets added on defence.

The 5th receiver comes out when Clercius, Daniels or MC take the field, that could be Singer or Cobb.

How is it we are the only team that hasn't signed a play released from another cfl team this year?
  Walters and OShea doing their Ostrich impressions?

Quote from: Pete on August 12, 2026, 04:34:02 PMHow is it we are the only team that hasn't signed a play released from another cfl team this year?
  Walters and OShea doing their Ostrich impressions?

Did you have someone in mind?

Pretty sure we added Dru Brown...

Quote from: theaardvark on August 12, 2026, 06:07:48 PMPretty sure we added Dru Brown...

Dru wasnt released or cut, in terms of players we should have had interest in include
Martez Ivey, Mcgloster on the oline Ruffin Houston or Henderson are candidates as well

Quote from: Pete on August 12, 2026, 07:03:40 PMDru wasnt released or cut, in terms of players we should have had interest in include
Martez Ivey, Mcgloster on the oline Ruffin Houston or Henderson are candidates as well

Ivey's currently sitting on the Lions' practice roster and McGloster's been a free agent since February began. Do you seriously think either would help on the O-line?
Houston was here for part of last season; we all saw how that went. He's now a year older. He was released by the winless RedBlacks along with Henderson. Would either of them be a difference maker in the secondary?

I'm all for upgrading talent but it could be argued the players you listed don't actually accomplish that goal.

Quote from: Pete on August 12, 2026, 04:34:02 PMHow is it we are the only team that hasn't signed a play released from another cfl team this year?
  Walters and OShea doing their Ostrich impressions?

I don't see how cast offs from other teams can help move our team forward, they've been cut for a reason.  Players have to know your system and playbook to help you, and those of marginal talent aren't worth the investment of time and possible disruption within your own clubhouse bringing in castoffs.

No one releases any player of value.  OTT has cut some vets because their season is over.  And I'd look at Gino, but I bet he has a high ask and is waiting for a big player to go down to get it.

PR or never signeds are not going to improve our team.

That's what scouts are for, and why we have players on the PR developing.

Any unsigned players we have already considered and passed on.

Trading for Dru made sense, and bore fruit.

Trading with an OTT for another player they can't resign might be an option.

According to the BB Facebook page, Kornelson was just released, along with American DB Matthew Jackson.

Oliveria didn't practice much again this week!!! 

We moved Novak to the PR which suggests Clark will be added to the AR from the 6 game IR. Hazen added to the AR. O'Shea loves his LB's. OTOH, he didn't have many other choices.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 12, 2026, 11:05:17 PMOliveria didn't practice much again this week!!! 

We moved Novak to the PR which suggests Clark will be added to the AR from the 6 game IR. Hazen added to the AR. O'Shea loves his LB's. OTOH, he didn't have many other choices.

Yeah thought Clark would come on.  Anyone watch to see how much reps he gets on D or teams? Making plays?

Quote from: dd on August 12, 2026, 07:23:39 PMI don't see how cast offs from other teams can help move our team forward, they've been cut for a reason.  Players have to know your system and playbook to help you, and those of marginal talent aren't worth the investment of time and possible disruption within your own clubhouse bringing in castoffs.

thats assuming that the cast offs arent better than what we have. The way Bryant has played Im not sure that getting someone that another team has released isnt a better option.
Its an issue that we dont bring in some options when we are struggling at various positions. BC signed Ivy for insurance, could Amari Henderson help us, who knows but continuing to stand pat isnt the answer

Agree that Stanley is struggling, but I think the replacement for Bryant is already on our roster, we just have to move Broxton over there and yet we don't, that's the frustrating part. If Bryant gets beat at RT, our Qb's don't get killed as they can see the hit coming

I like Broxton at left tackle but if Bryant is struggling at hid normal position how will he be at one hes not as comfortable with

If he can't perform at right tackle or we have someone better then he's done.

Anyone hear anything about those 2 big OL we drafted past couple years (Manu & Cline)
Are they sure fire NFL rosters?

Quote from: BomberFan73 on August 13, 2026, 06:18:23 PMAnyone hear anything about those 2 big OL we drafted past couple years (Manu & Cline)
Are they sure fire NFL rosters?

They are sure fire not CFL options this season.

Quote from: BomberFan73 on August 13, 2026, 06:18:23 PMAnyone hear anything about those 2 big OL we drafted past couple years (Manu & Cline)
Are they sure fire NFL rosters?

Manu is currently on the Lions' non-football injury (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/lions-place-ol-giovanni-manu-on-active-nfi) list. I doubt we see him up here any time soon.

Cline is currently with the Dolphins. He's considered a long shot (https://www.si.com/nfl/dolphins/onsi/dolphins-rookie-power-rankings-who-starts-who-might-get-cut-01ky84mmefze) to make the 53-man roster but could wind up on the PR. I doubt we see him up here any time soon, either.

Manu is in tough with the Lions drafting Blake Miller and signing Vet. Borom. Sounds like his time with the Lions is running out.

Watching a lot of NFL TC. Not much on the Dolphins.