Blue Bombers Forum

Just curious what everyone thinks from a fan perspective. It's something the players wanted in the CFLPA so it's only a rhetorical kind of question.

I didn't add neither since it seems like a black and white question about our opinions.

You can elaborate if you want but it's not really necessary unless you want to elaborate.

It just is what it is, imo.

Like I said in another thread, players would be released to pursue NFL options anyway. The contractual option to go simply allows teams to retain their rights.

We complain about one year deals and roster instability. But there are no reasons for players to sign longer than one year deals unless you give them incentives to do so, and this is one of those things.

Quote from: Jesse on December 23, 2025, 09:29:01 PMIt just is what it is, imo.

Like I said in another thread, players would be released to pursue NFL options anyway. The contractual option to go simply allows teams to retain their rights.

We complain about one year deals and roster instability. But there are no reasons for players to sign longer than one year deals unless you give them incentives to do so, and this is one of those things.

Some valid points. However if there was no clause then NFL teams couldn't approach players for deals and we wouldn't release them. It might force a player to be suspended but why would a team comply if the option wasn't part of CFLPA. There was a CFL/NFL agreement to not solicit our players under contact before the clause. Even currently it requires permission which is fait de complete ( rubber stamp ).

The lack of guaranteed contracts has been a problem for veterans but recently we see more contracts with guaranteed money. That includes Oliveria and Kramdi so far in recent re-signings and some other teams doing the same thing.

Maybe a corner has been turned.

NFL "windows" are needed to allow max flexibility for players to go down when teams want them.  Why?  Because the NFL carrot is the reason a ton ever bother coming up here at all.

What I want to see added is the CFL team losing the player gets their rights on that player paused.  When he comes back that team gets that player back.  I'm torn as to whether the old contract price should be forced to continue, or if the player can ask for more.  But in both cases the original team gets dibbs.

Quote from: Tecno on December 24, 2025, 02:29:55 AMNFL "windows" are needed to allow max flexibility for players to go down when teams want them.  Why?  Because the NFL carrot is the reason a ton ever bother coming up here at all.

What I want to see added is the CFL team losing the player gets their rights on that player paused.  When he comes back that team gets that player back.  I'm torn as to whether the old contract price should be forced to continue, or if the player can ask for more.  But in both cases the original team gets dibbs.

That is exactly what the "window" does.

Quote from: theaardvark on December 24, 2025, 02:50:36 AMThat is exactly what the "window" does.

I'm talking about if they actually "win" the window and leave for 1+ years, after having played a full year in the CFL to get the film.  This happens fairly regularly.  Think Henoc, Biggie, Strev, etc.  By the time they return, the original team owns nothing on them.

It never seemed "fair" to me, from the CFL team standpoint.

Quote from: Tecno on December 24, 2025, 02:29:55 AMNFL "windows" are needed to allow max flexibility for players to go down when teams want them.  Why?  Because the NFL carrot is the reason a ton ever bother coming up here at all.

What I want to see added is the CFL team losing the player gets their rights on that player paused.  When he comes back that team gets that player back.  I'm torn as to whether the old contract price should be forced to continue, or if the player can ask for more.  But in both cases the original team gets dibbs.

It's an advantage to the players potentially but IMO it's not an advantage to the CFL. The sticking point is the thought that is why many ONLY consider the CFL in the 1st place.

As I've pointed out, we had no problem getting imports into the CFL before this option existed.

Quote from: Tecno on December 24, 2025, 02:57:57 AMI'm talking about if they actually "win" the window and leave for 1+ years, after having played a full year in the CFL to get the film.  This happens fairly regularly.  Think Henoc, Biggie, Strev, etc.  By the time they return, the original team owns nothing on them.

It never seemed "fair" to me, from the CFL team standpoint.

Those are players whose CFL contracts expired before they left. Nothing to do about that.

Quote from: Blue In BC on December 24, 2025, 01:19:23 PMIt's an advantage to the players potentially but IMO it's not an advantage to the CFL. The sticking point is the thought that is why many ONLY consider the CFL in the 1st place.

As I've pointed out, we had no problem getting imports into the CFL before this option existed.

We've always had players leaving for the NFL, too. And if you're reaching back in time to prior to the 2000s, the salary landscape was not as incredibly different as it is now either. But there's no way you can reasonably expect a player not to be able to take a shot if he has earned an NFL opportunity. I think it's crazy we're having this conversation.

But NFL rosters are much larger than they used to be and they're eligible to stay on PRs for longer. Not to mention the NFL's scouting has expanded exponentially and are digging through Canadian universities, the small schools that we'd usually recruit. The game has expanded to allow undersized players to be utilized in specialized roles.

Quote from: Blue In BC on December 24, 2025, 01:19:23 PMIt's an advantage to the players potentially but IMO it's not an advantage to the CFL. The sticking point is the thought that is why many ONLY consider the CFL in the 1st place.

As I've pointed out, we had no problem getting imports into the CFL before this option existed.

We will never have an issue filling out rosters with imports.  Ever.

The question is, do we get the best imports, or the "no other option" imports.

I would suggest that, as many have speculated in these forums, that getting a season of on field reps at game speed is going to give you a better chance of breaking onto an NFL roster, be it an AR spot or even a PR spot than hanging around bouncing from camp to camp on tryouts and futures deals.

Every time a Dee Alford makes a career from a CFL stint. or a Streveler gets an NFL pension after a CFL stint, it confirms that the CFL is a legitimate way for someone who has fallen off the NFL radar to get eyeballs back on them.

We have no idea how many NCAA stars that miss their chance to land an NFL spot decide to flip burgers, or bounce at a bar, or pursue the "after football" career they prepared for in college early.

We do know, however, that many players come to the CFL with one purpose in mind. 

To get another shot at the NFL.

There is no way that the number of those fringe players is not increased by the "NFL window" option being a direct part of their CFL contract.

Is it 2% more top prospects?  Or 5%?  Or even 10%? I don't know.  But I do know, it is more than 0%.

Quote from: theaardvark on December 24, 2025, 04:43:44 PMWe will never have an issue filling out rosters with imports.  Ever.

The question is, do we get the best imports, or the "no other option" imports.

I would suggest that, as many have speculated in these forums, that getting a season of on field reps at game speed is going to give you a better chance of breaking onto an NFL roster, be it an AR spot or even a PR spot than hanging around bouncing from camp to camp on tryouts and futures deals.

Every time a Dee Alford makes a career from a CFL stint. or a Streveler gets an NFL pension after a CFL stint, it confirms that the CFL is a legitimate way for someone who has fallen off the NFL radar to get eyeballs back on them.

We have no idea how many NCAA stars that miss their chance to land an NFL spot decide to flip burgers, or bounce at a bar, or pursue the "after football" career they prepared for in college early.

We do know, however, that many players come to the CFL with one purpose in mind. 

To get another shot at the NFL.

There is no way that the number of those fringe players is not increased by the "NFL window" option being a direct part of their CFL contract.

Is it 2% more top prospects?  Or 5%?  Or even 10%? I don't know.  But I do know, it is more than 0%.

Players can get that same shot after filling a 2 year ELC contract as easily as an early option. AS I've pointed out, if they don't sign in the CFL chances are they sit out a season and have no NFL option. Sure, they may get an UFL deal but even those are iffy getting a new chance in the NFL. Many of the UFL players are already been through NFL TC's etc.

The CFL has always had stars play in Canada.

J. Grant didn't get a  new opportunity in the NFL IIRC. Vaval is currently exploring one. The process is random. Did Vaval show more than Grant early in his career?

Lawler spent two years on NFL PR's. Then he came to the CFL and got cut by the Lions before being picked up by the Bombers and having success. We'd have to ask him whether the NFL option had any influence in coming to the CFL.

Anyway, we could list hundreds of star CFL players than came and had long CFL careers before this clause which is my point.

The salary landscape has only changed in the sense that the NFL has insane money and every young player will be drawn to that.

Reality is that more players come from the NFL than leave to go back to the NFL.

Quote from: Blue In BC on December 24, 2025, 05:26:35 PMPlayers can get that same shot after filling a 2 year ELC contract as easily as an early option. AS I've pointed out, if they don't sign in the CFL chances are they sit out a season and have no NFL option. Sure, they may get an UFL deal but even those are iffy getting a new chance in the NFL. Many of the UFL players are already been through NFL TC's etc.

The CFL has always had stars play in Canada.

But without the window, they are stuck in a second year of an ELC, regretting every day.

Give them the window, they get to take their shot, and ONLY if they get a deal does year two get suspended.  No regrets, no whining.

And the window does not include a USFL (I use that term for all iterations of the spring league)  opportunity.  If they want to make minimum wage for 8 games a year for a tiny shot at an NFL look, the USFL is a dream.  At least in the CFL, they get a legit wage and shot at improving over a full season.

Not sure if more USFL players end up with NFL shots, or in the CFL...

Quote from: theaardvark on December 24, 2025, 05:40:51 PMBut without the window, they are stuck in a second year of an ELC, regretting every day.

Give them the window, they get to take their shot, and ONLY if they get a deal does year two get suspended.  No regrets, no whining.

And the window does not include a USFL (I use that term for all iterations of the spring league)  opportunity.  If they want to make minimum wage for 8 games a year for a tiny shot at an NFL look, the USFL is a dream.  At least in the CFL, they get a legit wage and shot at improving over a full season.

Not sure if more USFL players end up with NFL shots, or in the CFL...

IIRC the minimum in the UFL is about the same as in the CFL but it's a much shorter season and they are playing in the USA. The other issue is they can immediately go from the end of their season to an NFL team.

I think they are more visible to the NFL and a few more get new TC chances. That said I don't think too many stick in their 2nd go around.

Quote from: theaardvark on December 24, 2025, 05:40:51 PMBut without the window, they are stuck in a second year of an ELC, regretting every day.

Give them the window, they get to take their shot, and ONLY if they get a deal does year two get suspended.  No regrets, no whining.

And the window does not include a USFL (I use that term for all iterations of the spring league)  opportunity.  If they want to make minimum wage for 8 games a year for a tiny shot at an NFL look, the USFL is a dream.  At least in the CFL, they get a legit wage and shot at improving over a full season.

Not sure if more USFL players end up with NFL shots, or in the CFL...

Dalton Schoen led the CFL in receiving yards his first season, he did not receive a second shot at the NFL as a reward, that is the reality. 

Most of the players being recruited know nothing about the CFL until a scout or an agent whispers it's a viable hack they can use to getting another crack at the NFL, after the majority have already been evaluated and rejected.

The CFL is a viable professional football league, they need to promote their stability and the opportunity they provide players to continue their careers and make a decent living playing football. For the exceptional few that excel and receive "real offers" from the NFL they should assist in anyway they can, but they should not accomodate teams like the NY Jets who grab a dozen CFL players every year just to fill their quota of rookies to use as TC fodder.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 24, 2025, 07:01:05 PMDalton Schoen led the CFL in receiving yards his first season, he did not receive a second shot at the NFL as a reward, that is the reality. 

Most of the players being recruited know nothing about the CFL until a scout or an agent whispers it's a viable hack they can use to getting another crack at the NFL, after the majority have already been evaluated and rejected.

The CFL is a viable professional football league, they need to promote their stability and the opportunity they provide players to continue their careers and make a decent living playing football. For the exceptional few that excel and receive "real offers" from the NFL they should assist in anyway they can, but they should not accomodate teams like the NY Jets who grab a dozen CFL players every year just to fill their quota of rookies to use as TC fodder.

Schoen got workouts based on his success as a rookie in the CFL.  His game, though, seems to be amplified by the waggle.  So he didn't stick.

But to say he didn't get a second shot at the NFL during the NFL window is hogwash.  He got the looks BECAUSE of the CFL.

https://3downnation.com/2023/02/14/nobody-was-willing-to-pull-the-trigger-nfl-teams-pass-on-bombers-rookie-sensation-dalton-schoen/

"Schoen's eye-popping statistics earned him a number of NFL workouts following the season, including with the Minnesota Vikings, Arizona Cardinals, and Cincinnati Bengals. However, the 26-year-old did not receive a contract offer as NFL scouts believe his production was inflated by taking advantage of the waggle motion in the CFL slot."

Quote from: Jesse on December 24, 2025, 02:39:43 PMThose are players whose CFL contracts expired before they left. Nothing to do about that.

No, we're talking about an ELC IMP who just finished their rookie season: season 1 of a 2 year contract.  They are still under contract when they head down the FA between their season 1 and 2.  If they stick for 1+ years, then they return complete FAs, even though when they left they were still under contract.

I want to see that contract continue, like the NFL time never existed.  The CFL could do this.

What happens is a team scouts the supreme top guys, they light up year 1, then leave until year 3 (or more).  Then they return and do the Henoc mercenary tour.  Instead they should still be locked to that original team for another year.  (The money aspect would have to be worked out, though...)

Quote from: Blue In BC on December 24, 2025, 05:26:35 PMJ. Grant didn't get a  new opportunity in the NFL IIRC. Vaval is currently exploring one. The process is random. Did Vaval show more than Grant early in his career?

I don't think it's as random as you think.  Grant had a big glaring "he's a FUMBLER" on his NFL scouting reports.  Vaval does not.  They both look somewhat similar in their rookie year.  The edge of the "not a fumbler" thing gets Vaval a look and Grant a lump of coal.

That said, I still have no idea why Strev stuck so long when Rourke got not much of anything.

Quote from: Tecno on December 25, 2025, 04:05:37 AMI don't think it's as random as you think.  Grant had a big glaring "he's a FUMBLER" on his NFL scouting reports.  Vaval does not.  They both look somewhat similar in their rookie year.  The edge of the "not a fumbler" thing gets Vaval a look and Grant a lump of coal.

That said, I still have no idea why Strev stuck so long when Rourke got not much of anything.

Players have to be in the right place at the right time with a team that needs that skill set. Grant was released by the TiCats. NFL draft choices don't always make the right assessments.

Quote from: Tecno on December 25, 2025, 04:03:21 AMNo, we're talking about an ELC IMP who just finished their rookie season: season 1 of a 2 year contract.  They are still under contract when they head down the FA between their season 1 and 2.  If they stick for 1+ years, then they return complete FAs, even though when they left they were still under contract.

I want to see that contract continue, like the NFL time never existed.  The CFL could do this.

What happens is a team scouts the supreme top guys, they light up year 1, then leave until year 3 (or more).  Then they return and do the Henoc mercenary tour.  Instead they should still be locked to that original team for another year.  (The money aspect would have to be worked out, though...)

You mentioned Henoc, Biggie, and Strev. All had completed their CFL contracts and were FAs whether they went to the NFL or not.

Quote from: theaardvark on December 24, 2025, 09:19:02 PMSchoen got workouts based on his success as a rookie in the CFL.  His game, though, seems to be amplified by the waggle.  So he didn't stick.

But to say he didn't get a second shot at the NFL during the NFL window is hogwash.  He got the looks BECAUSE of the CFL.

https://3downnation.com/2023/02/14/nobody-was-willing-to-pull-the-trigger-nfl-teams-pass-on-bombers-rookie-sensation-dalton-schoen/

"Schoen's eye-popping statistics earned him a number of NFL workouts following the season, including with the Minnesota Vikings, Arizona Cardinals, and Cincinnati Bengals. However, the 26-year-old did not receive a contract offer as NFL scouts believe his production was inflated by taking advantage of the waggle motion in the CFL slot."

Point taken, but if you look at the date of the story it was written Feb. 14 2023, so Schoen gave up on the NFL well before Bomber TC opened and was available for the entire season, which was the perfect scenario. Maybe Vaval will do the same, but if he doesn't it causes problems for the Bombers as they have to invest in his temporary or permanent replacement and play the waiting game.

Yeah, I don't know all the ins and outs of what the NFL does or doesn't do in regard to the option deal. I've already discussed the negative impact for the CFL.

What I'd like to see is more protection for the players in the form of some sort of guaranteed payment. Many get an offer to attend TC and are little more than TCF. It seems that many aren't really getting a fair look.

It's one thing for that to happen when a player is a complete free agent and not made a roster elsewhere.

I'll just throw out a number for the sake of discussion, at $20K USD. The NFL has lots of money. Go ahead and take a look at these players but in the interest of fairness, the player has more to lose than the NFL if he's released after TC at the end of August.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 25, 2025, 06:07:44 PMPoint taken, but if you look at the date of the story it was written Feb. 14 2023, so Schoen gave up on the NFL well before Bomber TC opened and was available for the entire season, which was the perfect scenario. Maybe Vaval will do the same, but if he doesn't it causes problems for the Bombers as they have to invest in his temporary or permanent replacement and play the waiting game.

He took the window, got a look, and did not get a deal.

Wilson got a look, got a deal, and stuck for a bit before coming back.

Vaval is yet to be determined.  Unlike the other two, Vaval is getting a look as a pure returner, special teamer.  Schoen and Wilson were getting looks at Rec.

Will that be in Vaval's favour, or against him?  There are a lot fewer dedicated returner jobs in the NFL than Rec.

Pretty sure no one is looking at him as a DB.

Quote from: Jesse on December 25, 2025, 02:13:59 PMYou mentioned Henoc, Biggie, and Strev. All had completed their CFL contracts and were FAs whether they went to the NFL or not.

Man, you guys are tough customers.  I knew someone was going to call me on this.

So they weren't still on their rookie contracts (obvious for Biggie, lol), but maybe some were still under a (multiyear) contract.  Dudes don't just wait until a FA year to take NFL looks.  They go look when called.  Are you positive Biggie & Henoc both left with 0 time left on their CFL contracts?  That info won't be immediately available -- you'll have to do some digging.  Unless you claim to have it all memorized!

I'm sure some of my other examples fit my scenario, and/or make up your own examples.  Zylstra, D.Walker, Singleton, D.Alford ... I'm sure there are tons from other teams which I don't memorize as much as guys from our team.  (Yes, even most of those are bad examples because 3 of 4 haven't returned (yet) -- come up with better examples for me!)

Even if it only affected 1 dude in the last decade, my point still stands: if there's time left on the contract, it should carry over when they return to the CFL.

Quote from: Tecno on December 26, 2025, 06:17:20 AMMan, you guys are tough customers.  I knew someone was going to call me on this.

So they weren't still on their rookie contracts (obvious for Biggie, lol), but maybe some were still under a (multiyear) contract.  Dudes don't just wait until a FA year to take NFL looks.  They go look when called.  Are you positive Biggie & Henoc both left with 0 time left on their CFL contracts?  That info won't be immediately available -- you'll have to do some digging.  Unless you claim to have it all memorized!

I'm sure some of my other examples fit my scenario, and/or make up your own examples.  Zylstra, D.Walker, Singleton, D.Alford ... I'm sure there are tons from other teams which I don't memorize as much as guys from our team.  (Yes, even most of those are bad examples because 3 of 4 haven't returned (yet) -- come up with better examples for me!)

Even if it only affected 1 dude in the last decade, my point still stands: if there's time left on the contract, it should carry over when they return to the CFL.

Well, I very clearly remember Henoc. He did his 3 years with us then he left.

I guess my opinion is that, given it happens so rarely, it's not worth trying to negotiate it out of the next CBA. What you give up is probably worth more than what you get back. Same with the Blue in BC option clause he's trying to get rid of.

Any remaining term on an uncompleted contract should be retained by the original team.

Term for sure, but value should be negotiable, with arbitration.  If the team and player can't come to a mutual agreement, it can be arbitrated.

We've seen issues with players overplaying their contract values and either sitting out of playing under protest, and leaving the moment their contract is up.  Smart team re-negotiate, and retain a happy, productive player.

Quote from: Tecno on December 26, 2025, 06:17:20 AMMan, you guys are tough customers.  I knew someone was going to call me on this.

So they weren't still on their rookie contracts (obvious for Biggie, lol), but maybe some were still under a (multiyear) contract.  Dudes don't just wait until a FA year to take NFL looks.  They go look when called.  Are you positive Biggie & Henoc both left with 0 time left on their CFL contracts?  That info won't be immediately available -- you'll have to do some digging.  Unless you claim to have it all memorized!

I'm sure some of my other examples fit my scenario, and/or make up your own examples.  Zylstra, D.Walker, Singleton, D.Alford ... I'm sure there are tons from other teams which I don't memorize as much as guys from our team.  (Yes, even most of those are bad examples because 3 of 4 haven't returned (yet) -- come up with better examples for me!)

Even if it only affected 1 dude in the last decade, my point still stands: if there's time left on the contract, it should carry over when they return to the CFL.

Maybe Corey Mace, drafted by the Bombers in 2007 but also signed with the Buffalo Bills where he hung around for 2 seasons played in 3 games and recorded a single tackle. Don't know if he forced the Bombers hand but the Hamilton Tiger-Cats acquired Mace's CFL rights along with a 2009 CFL draft first round pick in exchange for linebacker Zeke Moreno in the 2008 CFL season. Who here remembers Zeke Moreno?

The hate still burns.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 26, 2025, 04:18:29 PMMaybe Corey Mace, drafted by the Bombers in 2007 but also signed with the Buffalo Bills where he hung around for 2 seasons played in 3 games and recorded a single tackle. Don't know if he forced the Bombers hand but the Hamilton Tiger-Cats acquired Mace's CFL rights along with a 2009 CFL draft first round pick in exchange for linebacker Zeke Moreno in the 2008 CFL season. Who here remembers Zeke Moreno?

The hate still burns.

Option year versus draft retention situation. Yes I remember Moreno.

Quote from: Blue In BC on December 26, 2025, 04:46:25 PMOption year versus draft retention situation. Yes I remember Moreno.

I sure don't, from Wiki the Bombers traded the rights to Mace plus their first round draft pick in 2009 for Moreno.  Brendan Taman was the GM at the time.

Quote from: Jesse on December 26, 2025, 03:24:49 PMI guess my opinion is that, given it happens so rarely, it's not worth trying to negotiate it out of the next CBA.

Well, you're right about that.  My idea will never make it into any CBA because it only hurts the players (they can't get a big payday immediately upon return).  But it would help the teams, and really make fans happy and make things make more sense.  "Why isn't dude X coming back to our team after an NFL stint?"

The optimal for team and player is "right to match".  Like an NHL offer sheet.

Let a returning player make his best deal, and give the original team the opportunity to match.  Maybe make it juicier by adding some of it being guaranteed, say 10% (in addition to any guarantees being matched).

If the original team declines to match, they get DP's based on the total deal.