Have hired Dinwiddie as their new HC and GM. Good move on their part but I didn't think he'd leave the Argos.
OTOH, that leaves an opening in Toronto for O'Shea / Walters as a candidates they might be interested in following.
Beyond that I'd expect several Argos players to potentially follow Dinwiddie to Ottawa.
RedBlacks name Dinwiddie HC/GM (https://www.cfl.ca/2025/11/05/redblacks-name-ryan-dinwiddie-head-coach-general-manager/)
I'm baffled the Argonauts let him walk. Their loss, though.
That is huge, thought he signed an extension with the Argos...great move by the Redblacks
MOS will be heavily pursued by the Argos...
Definitely opens things up a little...
Who does he have for an OC in Ott? He certainly can't be GM/HC and OC... does he keep Condell for continuity?
The idea that Walters/MOS could move to Toronto is a very troubling. It would make a lot of sense, from a number of standpoints. Anything they accomplish going on here will pale compared to the 2 cups and 5 straight GC appearances.
We could be looking at a completely different team next year, top to bottom.
Shawn Burke will be VP of Football Operations
Quote from: theaardvark on November 05, 2025, 08:33:25 PMDefinitely opens things up a little...
Who does he have for an OC in Ott? He certainly can't be GM/HC and OC... does he keep Condell for continuity?
The idea that Walters/MOS could move to Toronto is a very troubling. It would make a lot of sense, from a number of standpoints. Anything they accomplish going on here will pale compared to the 2 cups and 5 straight GC appearances.
We could be looking at a completely different team next year, top to bottom.
Shawn Burke moves up the ladder in Ottawa after signing an extension as GM.
Yes we could be looking at an entirely different team in 2026. After 3 straight Grey Cup losses and the early exit in the ESF, that may not be a bad thing.
It may not be the best thing either depending on who the potential replacements might be.
CFL Community is shocked by this move, lots of surprised people.
from Naylor:
Hearing Ottawa asked Toronto for permission to speak to Ryan Dinwiddie late last week, which was approved on Monday. Deal done quickly after that. Dinwiddie had term remaining with Argos but took advancement with GM title.#CFL #Argos #Redblacks
Not gonna lie: I love this for the Argonauts.
MOS to the Argos???
Quote from: Ridermania on November 05, 2025, 09:19:39 PMMOS to the Argos???
Certainly increases MOS bargaining power. It wouldnt be great for us but it would for the league but it would mean another exbomber to raid us,,,maybe he'd want JT?
On an aside would it surprise anyone if Ottawa traded Brown for Kelly?
Quote from: Pete on November 05, 2025, 09:23:44 PMCertainly increases MOS bargaining power. It wouldnt be great for us but it would for the league but it would mean another exbomber to raid us,,,maybe he'd want JT?
On an aside would it surprise anyone if Ottawa traded Brown for Kelly?
IDK about that. Kelly is set to earn about $250K more than Brown. It wouldn't resolve or help resolve all the other problems on their roster.
I would expect Argos to make an offer to MOS. Perhaps too much for us to match. He'd have to get along with World class d-bag and defacto GM in John Murphy though. 50/50 is my early feeling on it.
Not sure why anyone is saying Kyle Walters would be part of this. They have figure head Pinball as GM and John Murphy as senior advisor to the GM. Where does Walters fit in?
The CFL allows Murphy to still be in the league after all his "indiscretions"?
Quote from: Waffler on November 05, 2025, 09:54:35 PMNot sure why anyone is saying Kyle Walters would be part of this. They have figure head Pinball as GM and John Murphy as senior advisor to the GM. Where does Walters fit in?
Same as what happened in Ottawa with Burke moving up. Pinball moves to a VP role and Walters moves into the GM role possibly.
I'll believe it when I see it regarding MOS to Argos.
Quote from: Blue In BC on November 05, 2025, 09:59:16 PMSame as what happened in Ottawa with Burke moving up. Pinball moves to a VP role and Walters moves into the GM role possibly.
Not sure Murphy can be a GM, technically he is still on indefinite suspension by the league. This is why Pinball holds the title. All coming about because of the post game fight and homophobic slurs in 2021. Even so, he is the architect of the team and I don't think he is going anywhere.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on November 05, 2025, 10:01:06 PMI'll believe it when I see it regarding MOS to Argos.
it might be a relief not to coach in a city with 32343 second guessers..... for about 5 minutes.
Oh Bomber fans, I think we just lost our Head Coach and possibly GM. I think the offer of going back to 'Torrona' where MOS is a legend, working with Pinball, close to family and friends, no more -30 below, big city Blue Jays, Raptors, etc, he would be working with his old teammate Kevin Eiben,... he's gone. Heck, I'd go if I was him!!!
I'd totally get it if he does go and would be happy for him and his family at the move. Real estate would be a kick in the teeth, but he'll still do it.
Now the scary part....I shutter to think who will replace him.
Whoever here was harping on Dinwiddie to OTT for the last 2+ months was right. Good call/guess. Dinwiddie seems like a monster workaholic so he's the type to rlish having more jobs. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if he was GM/HC/OC. He'll love it... and it allows them to stay within the cap more easily plus give him a lot more money.
MOS to TOR idea:
Y'all are forgetting that every team has the same coaches cap. MOS is already maxing the heck out of what a team can pay a one-hat HC. How on earth could another team pay him more?? We're already taking from our cheapo OC/DC to pay MOS more. No way another team can finagle that and not suffer (as some would say we have).
And MOS will never want to be a two-hat, like HC+GM. That was the magic sauce to make the Dinwiddie move work. You can't do the same with MOS. And if it's not an "upgrade" they can't just take MOS from us. And if he's not two-hat, how can they pay him more?
If you want to talk about "love", MOS gets tons of love here. Excluding a few expats hanging out at MBB, and like 2 guys here, he's well liked and appreciated. How is he going to get more love in TOR? There's like 8 fans there, and they'll probably hate him after half a year of failure anyhow.
I won't say it's impossible, but I just don't see how it all works out, unless MOS really really hates it here, or we want to get a cheaper HC so we can afford to pay a "real" OC.
Quote from: Waffler on November 05, 2025, 09:50:47 PMI would expect Argos to make an offer to MOS. Perhaps too much for us to match. He'd have to get along with World class d-bag and defacto GM in John Murphy though. 50/50 is my early feeling on it.
People said this before the Argos signed Dinwiddie too.
Quote from: Tecno on November 05, 2025, 11:24:30 PMMOS to TOR idea:
Y'all are forgetting that every team has the same coaches cap. MOS is already maxing the heck out of what a team can pay a one-hat HC. How on earth could another team pay him more?? We're already taking from our cheapo OC/DC to pay MOS more. No way another team can finagle that and not suffer (as some would say we have).
And MOS will never want to be a two-hat, like HC+GM. That was the magic sauce to make the Dinwiddie move work. You can't do the same with MOS. And if it's not an "upgrade" they can't just take MOS from us. And if he's not two-hat, how can they pay him more?
If you want to talk about "love", MOS gets tons of love here. Excluding a few expats hanging out at MBB, and like 2 guys here, he's well liked and appreciated. How is he going to get more love in TOR? There's like 8 fans there, and they'll probably hate him after half a year of failure anyhow.
I won't say it's impossible, but I just don't see how it all works out, unless MOS really really hates it here, or we want to get a cheaper HC so we can afford to pay a "real" OC.
After 10 years at an HC, and making good $$ at doing it, I don't think the move will be about money, I think the move will be about family and overall happiness, and we can't compete with that. As a southern Ontario transplant myself, I am happy and envious and actually hope he gets the Argos job. Yes, he gets 'love' here, but it ain't family and relatives love. We can't compete with that.
Quote from: Tecno on November 05, 2025, 11:18:36 PMWhoever here was harping on Dinwiddie to OTT for the last 2+ months was right. Good call/guess. Dinwiddie seems like a monster workaholic so he's the type to rlish having more jobs. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if he was GM/HC/OC. He'll love it... and it allows them to stay within the cap more easily plus give him a lot more money.
I've been beating the 'Dinwiddie to Ottawa' drum for a while now, it only makes sense. Ottawa needs a football mind to run their program, Dinwiddie is that. There's nobody happier in Ottawa right now than Dru Brown, Geno Lewis, Hardy and Pimpleton, their offense is going to be waaaay better next year and really, Toronto looks to be the weak sister in the East, and if MOS goes there, look out, the East will be a dogfight, and Winnipeg the bottom feeder in the league.
Quote from: dd on November 05, 2025, 11:57:51 PMAfter 10 years at an HC, and making good $$ at doing it, I don't think the move will be about money, I think the move will be about family and overall happiness
Ya, all well and good, but I don't think TOR could even pay him what he's already making here, let alone earn more.
MOS may not demand more $ if the move makes him happier, but he certainly won't take a big pay CUT!
Quote from: dd on November 05, 2025, 11:57:51 PMAfter 10 years at an HC, and making good $$ at doing it, I don't think the move will be about money, I think the move will be about family and overall happiness, and we can't compete with that. As a southern Ontario transplant myself, I am happy and envious and actually hope he gets the Argos job. Yes, he gets 'love' here, but it ain't family and relatives love. We can't compete with that.
But, again, people said the same thing the last time the Argos needed a coach and MOS was without a contract.
Quote from: Jesse on November 06, 2025, 12:33:41 AMBut, again, people said the same thing the last time the Argos needed a coach and MOS was without a contract.
We were cruising at that time, winning and trending in the right direction, with a lineup of stud athletes ie Harris, Bighill, Jefferson, and MOS was younger then. Now, his stud athletes have all aged out or are about to age out and MOS has kids who are in southern Ontario going to University, so why stay here.
Quote from: Tecno on November 06, 2025, 12:26:56 AMYa, all well and good, but I don't think TOR could even pay him what he's already making here, let alone earn more.
MOS may not demand more $ if the move makes him happier, but he certainly won't take a big pay CUT!
I'd be surprised if he even accepts an interview, likely signs a new contract within a week of the GC, same terms as last time. If he was 10 years younger it might be a different story.
I think the reason Toronto didnt do whatever necessary to keep Dinwiddie is they felt they have a great shot at signing OShea.
Every offseason is eventful in the CFL with so much player movement...this one could be a doozy for the Bombers.
wasn't aware of this cfl "rule":
The Canadian Football League rule is rather clear. You have to wait seven days after a team has played its final game of the season before you can approach and ask for permission to talk to an employee.
so Argos can't talk to MOS until Monday.
Argonauts expected opportunity to match Redblacks' offer to Dinwiddie (https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/article/argonauts-expected-opportunity-to-match-redblacks-offer-to-dinwiddie/)
He just left them high and dry. ;D
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 06, 2025, 01:07:58 AMIf he was 10 years younger it might be a different story.
The opposite has me concerned. As coaches go he is still young enough to build one more team from the ground up if that is a challenge that interests him. A lot of talent is there now but not sure if they are O'Shea kind of guys.
With our season being over does TO have to ask permission to speak to MOS? A player contract expires in Feb but I am not sure about a coaches contract. Is he finished being paid for the 2025 contract at season end, Grey Cup end or year end? I am sure he still goes in to work every day.
Jeff Hamilton thinks MOS and KW stay. Here's his reasoning:
1) I'll admit I thought first about O'Shea when the Dinwiddie news broke, but the more I thought about it the less I thought it was a good fit. Given the small-world nature of the CFL, the Argos are certainly going to inquire and should know his interest soon. I don't see O'Shea in Toronto being a good fit for several reasons, the biggest being O'Shea doesn't seem to do well with change. There are too many variables for him to manage with a new organization, even if he is familiar with the team. O'Shea finally got the Bombers to the top of the three-down mountain after some lean years. Winnipeg's ascension, however, coincided with the arrival of quarterback Zach Collaros — a trade O'Shea didn't approve before it was made. I'm not sure O'Shea would be able to do the same for the Argos, mainly because they don't share his strong desire for continuity, constantly overhauling the roster each year. I couldn't think of anything more anti-O'Shea, and I don't see the Argos ownership caring about a culture change.
2) You also wonder what the expectations would be as far as job title. While every other coach has a second role – either as a GM or co-ordinator – O'Shea is strictly the head coach, giving him the best gig in the CFL. As for roster control, he has a lot of that, too, seemingly the same as general manager Kyle Walters. I don't see him getting that anywhere else but Winnipeg, so I'm predicting another extension with the Bombers, which is where he belongs.
Quote from: Waffler on November 06, 2025, 02:49:27 PMWith our season being over does TO have to ask permission to speak to MOS? A player contract expires in Feb but I am not sure about a coaches contract. Is he finished being paid for the 2025 contract at season end, Grey Cup end or year end? I am sure he still goes in to work every day.
Zipp pointed out that they can't talk to anyone until a given team has been eliminated for a week. So not until Monday to speak with any Bomber coach etc. Younger might be someone they might be interested in.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on November 06, 2025, 01:46:24 PMArgonauts expected opportunity to match Redblacks' offer to Dinwiddie (https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/article/argonauts-expected-opportunity-to-match-redblacks-offer-to-dinwiddie/)
He just left them high and dry. ;D
[/quoteQuote from: blue_gold_84 on November 06, 2025, 01:46:24 PMArgonauts expected opportunity to match Redblacks' offer to Dinwiddie (https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/article/argonauts-expected-opportunity-to-match-redblacks-offer-to-dinwiddie/)
He just left them high and dry. ;D
this explains a lot. maybe he got tired of the Kelly gong show
A Walters/MOS move to Toronto would be a great move for the league. It would give Toronto a proven team to develop into a dynasty.
If we lose them, does JY get the nod to HC? Hall back as DC? Lapo OC/Asst HC? Or does Collaros transition to OC?
Who do you tap for GM? Would someone like Dyce actually be a good fit? Or a Dobie? If Goveia or Rigmaiden were still here... no brainers, are there others? Does McManus decide to try on the title, and make the move from "work from home"?
Is there an emeritus pick for GM? Milt? Would Lapo be a good GM? I think he loves the scouting side of things...
Lapo GM, JY as HC, Hall as DC, Collaros as OC? Streveler as QB/RB coach?
I guess waiting for the moves to happen makes sense, but unlike Hamilton, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
Quote from: theaardvark on November 06, 2025, 03:59:50 PMA Walters/MOS move to Toronto would be a great move for the league. It would give Toronto a proven team to develop into a dynasty.
If we lose them, does JY get the nod to HC? Hall back as DC? Lapo OC/Asst HC? Or does Collaros transition to OC?
Who do you tap for GM? Would someone like Dyce actually be a good fit? Or a Dobie? If Goveia or Rigmaiden were still here... no brainers, are there others? Does McManus decide to try on the title, and make the move from "work from home"?
Is there an emeritus pick for GM? Milt? Would Lapo be a good GM? I think he loves the scouting side of things...
Lapo GM, JY as HC, Hall as DC, Collaros as OC? Streveler as QB/RB coach?
I guess waiting for the moves to happen makes sense, but unlike Hamilton, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
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Quote from: theaardvark on November 06, 2025, 03:59:50 PMA Walters/MOS move to Toronto would be a great move for the league. It would give Toronto a proven team to develop into a dynasty.
If we lose them, does JY get the nod to HC? Hall back as DC? Lapo OC/Asst HC? Or does Collaros transition to OC?
Who do you tap for GM? Would someone like Dyce actually be a good fit? Or a Dobie? If Goveia or Rigmaiden were still here... no brainers, are there others? Does McManus decide to try on the title, and make the move from "work from home"?
Is there an emeritus pick for GM? Milt? Would Lapo be a good GM? I think he loves the scouting side of things...
Lapo GM, JY as HC, Hall as DC, Collaros as OC? Streveler as QB/RB coach?
I guess waiting for the moves to happen makes sense, but unlike Hamilton, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
I don't see Collaros taking on an OC spot and a giant pay cut. If the Bombers part ways with him, he'll land on another team even if he becomes a # 2 QB, the pay cut will still be less than what it would be as an OC.
Quote from: dd on November 05, 2025, 10:57:42 PMOh Bomber fans, I think we just lost our Head Coach and possibly GM. I think the offer of going back to 'Torrona' where MOS is a legend, working with Pinball, close to family and friends, no more -30 below, big city Blue Jays, Raptors, etc, he would be working with his old teammate Kevin Eiben,... he's gone. Heck, I'd go if I was him!!!
I'd totally get it if he does go and would be happy for him and his family at the move. Real estate would be a kick in the teeth, but he'll still do it.
Now the scary part....I shutter to think who will replace him.
But how entrenched are his wife and kids here in Winnipeg (school, sports, jobs, friends, house)?
Never really hear much about his family and I have no clue but that is a huge factor.
Quote from: theaardvark on November 06, 2025, 03:59:50 PMA Walters/MOS move to Toronto would be a great move for the league. It would give Toronto a proven team to develop into a dynasty.
If we lose them, does JY get the nod to HC? Hall back as DC? Lapo OC/Asst HC? Or does Collaros transition to OC?
Who do you tap for GM? Would someone like Dyce actually be a good fit? Or a Dobie? If Goveia or Rigmaiden were still here... no brainers, are there others? Does McManus decide to try on the title, and make the move from "work from home"?
Is there an emeritus pick for GM? Milt? Would Lapo be a good GM? I think he loves the scouting side of things...
Lapo GM, JY as HC, Hall as DC, Collaros as OC? Streveler as QB/RB coach?
I guess waiting for the moves to happen makes sense, but unlike Hamilton, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
O'Shea to TO. Hogan promoted to HC.
Quote from: theaardvark on November 06, 2025, 03:59:50 PMA Walters/MOS move to Toronto would be a great move for the league. It would give Toronto a proven team to develop into a dynasty.
If we lose them, does JY get the nod to HC? Hall back as DC? Lapo OC/Asst HC? Or does Collaros transition to OC?
Who do you tap for GM? Would someone like Dyce actually be a good fit? Or a Dobie? If Goveia or Rigmaiden were still here... no brainers, are there others? Does McManus decide to try on the title, and make the move from "work from home"?
Is there an emeritus pick for GM? Milt? Would Lapo be a good GM? I think he loves the scouting side of things...
Lapo GM, JY as HC, Hall as DC, Collaros as OC? Streveler as QB/RB coach?
I guess waiting for the moves to happen makes sense, but unlike Hamilton, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
McManus doesn't want to be a local person which is why he's the scout in the east. OTOH, I wouldn't be upset if we replace him with someone like Lapo.
I don't know what that or a position as OC pay compared to a TSB gig, but I'd welcome that change.
Quote from: Waffler on November 06, 2025, 02:50:32 PMJeff Hamilton thinks MOS and KW stay. Here's his reasoning:
1) I'll admit I thought first about O'Shea when the Dinwiddie news broke, but the more I thought about it the less I thought it was a good fit. Given the small-world nature of the CFL, the Argos are certainly going to inquire and should know his interest soon. I don't see O'Shea in Toronto being a good fit for several reasons, the biggest being O'Shea doesn't seem to do well with change. There are too many variables for him to manage with a new organization, even if he is familiar with the team. O'Shea finally got the Bombers to the top of the three-down mountain after some lean years. Winnipeg's ascension, however, coincided with the arrival of quarterback Zach Collaros — a trade O'Shea didn't approve before it was made. I'm not sure O'Shea would be able to do the same for the Argos, mainly because they don't share his strong desire for continuity, constantly overhauling the roster each year. I couldn't think of anything more anti-O'Shea, and I don't see the Argos ownership caring about a culture change.
2) You also wonder what the expectations would be as far as job title. While every other coach has a second role – either as a GM or co-ordinator – O'Shea is strictly the head coach, giving him the best gig in the CFL. As for roster control, he has a lot of that, too, seemingly the same as general manager Kyle Walters. I don't see him getting that anywhere else but Winnipeg, so I'm predicting another extension with the Bombers, which is where he belongs.
Hamilton makes some sense, no doubt O'Shea is deeply conservative and the type of players he likes best would have fit in well with the group he played with back in his day. The bigger the difference in age the more appalling the younger generation looks from the perspective of values and work ethic, every generation gets softer.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 06, 2025, 04:33:14 PMHamilton makes some sense, no doubt O'Shea is deeply conservative and the type of players he likes best would have fit in well with the group he played with back in his day. The bigger the difference in age the more appalling the younger generation looks from the perspective of values and work ethic, every generation gets softer.
Nothing screams ignorance quite like baseless assumptions and sweeping generalizations.
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Quote from: The Zipp on November 06, 2025, 09:59:23 AMwasn't aware of this cfl "rule":
The Canadian Football League rule is rather clear. You have to wait seven days after a team has played its final game of the season before you can approach and ask for permission to talk to an employee.
so Argos can't talk to MOS until Monday.
I thought they had to wait until the GC was over so as not to distract from the buildup?
Obviously not the case.
The HC/GM role is a contract breaking upgrade that the CFL allows. It is obviously a big pay bump for two hats (three if he keeps the OC duties.)
Is he going for the Chris Jones trifecta, or will he hire at least a placeholder at OC and still call the plays?
Dinwiddie is doing the full "Chris Jones" by taking on the OC job as well as GM and HC, so 2 potential OC's become available Tommy Condell and Rick Campbell, hope the Bombers don't dawdle making up their minds like they did last year.
Chances of getting Dru Brown back fell dramatically, if Dinwiddie can make Arbuckle effective he should be able to do a lot with Brown.
Quote from: Waffler on November 06, 2025, 02:49:27 PMWith our season being over does TO have to ask permission to speak to MOS? A player contract expires in Feb but I am not sure about a coaches contract. Is he finished being paid for the 2025 contract at season end, Grey Cup end or year end? I am sure he still goes in to work every day.
My understanding is that coaches/GMs contracts run until Dec 31st.
Quote from: gobombersgo on November 06, 2025, 05:34:26 PMMy understanding is that coaches/GMs contracts run until Dec 31st.
That's probably true but one team then asks for permission to speak with a candidate. A new team wants the new person in place ASAP in order to assess talent and draft considerations etc. That's true whether a contact will expire or still has time left.
Quote from: Blue In BC on November 06, 2025, 06:29:15 PMThat's probably true but one team then asks for permission to speak with a candidate. A new team wants the new person in place ASAP in order to assess talent and draft considerations etc. That's true whether a contact will expire or still has time left.
And a team can deny permission. Toronto could have said "Pound sand" to Ott, and they would have had to wait until Dec 31. Pinball thought Dinwiddie would give him the courtesy to counter, so he extended the courtesy to him talking to Ott while still under contract.
I guess Dinwiddie didn't see a path forward with Toronto, regardless what Pinball would have offered...
Quote from: theaardvark on November 06, 2025, 08:39:23 PMAnd a team can deny permission. Toronto could have said "Pound sand" to Ott, and they would have had to wait until Dec 31. Pinball thought Dinwiddie would give him the courtesy to counter, so he extended the courtesy to him talking to Ott while still under contract.
I guess Dinwiddie didn't see a path forward with Toronto, regardless what Pinball would have offered...
Except Dinwiddie was still under contract with the Argos for 2026.
Clubs normally allow their staff to talk to other teams if it's for a promotion, which it was in this case.
Quote from: theaardvark on November 06, 2025, 08:39:23 PMAnd a team can deny permission. Toronto could have said "Pound sand" to Ott, and they would have had to wait until Dec 31. Pinball thought Dinwiddie would give him the courtesy to counter, so he extended the courtesy to him talking to Ott while still under contract.
I guess Dinwiddie didn't see a path forward with Toronto, regardless what Pinball would have offered...
Dinwiddie just maxed out his earnings, he also gets to move his family from Toronto to Ottawa which is a much better city to live in.
I don't think MOS is leave Winnipeg, at least as of today his house isn't up for sale. lol. However, for those that think after 12 years we need a wholesale change, this would be your answer.