We have JJ on staff, brought in after Hogan was named, and you have to think that hire as QB coach had to be made with the idea a veteran ex-OC would be essential in assisting Hogan.
IF, as some here conjecture, that MOS is not happy with Hogan, how hard is it to flip the positions or JJ and Hogan?
Is it that time yet?
No, gotta give Hogan more time imo but has been a few bumps to be sure
I think lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball is the limiting factor. Hogan is also an issue but we aren't going change at this point in the season. Whether we make a change during the off season is a TBD.
Jackson did have more success previously so I wouldn't rule him out though.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 14, 2025, 06:25:16 PMI think lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball is the limiting factor. Hogan is also an issue but we aren't going change at this point in the season. Whether we make a change during the off season is a TBD.
Jackson did have more success previously so I wouldn't rule him out though.
Hard to say if Jackson was a success in Edmonton, he did ok working with MBT but didn't seem to get a lot out of Ford. He was also there as OC under Chris Jones for a number of years prior and did little to elevate the offence or QB play, I think he's more of a get along, go along guy, don't rock the boat kinda guy than he is a game changer.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 14, 2025, 08:16:46 PMHard to say if Jackson was a success in Edmonton, he did ok working with MBT but didn't seem to get a lot out of Ford. He was also there under Chris Jones for a number of years prior and did little to elevate the QB play, I think he's more of a "get along and go along guy" than he is a game changer.
Say what you want but the Elks scored 504 points and were the highest in the west division. Only the Argos scored more with 514. The Elks were always behind so they did score a lot of points in garbage time. Regardless, they score them.
Compared to Hogan where we aren't scoring enough. We're last or close to last for teams having played 13 games.
Pick your poison.
pretty hard to make any sort of accurate suggestions on roles without knowing what their roles actually are / maybe we are seeing a JJ offense already??
play calling hasn't been great, the execution hasn't been great, we are still having long stretches of ineptitude during games and players missing assignments.
we are well past halfway so newness is less of a factor.
protect Zach needs to be the number one thing as like it or not: no Zach = no wins
unfortunately i don't think there is a "fix the offense" button that can be pushed for instant results.
Quote from: The Zipp on September 14, 2025, 11:39:17 PMpretty hard to make any sort of accurate suggestions on roles without knowing what their roles actually are / maybe we are seeing a JJ offense already??
play calling hasn't been great, the execution hasn't been great, we are still having long stretches of ineptitude during games and players missing assignments.
we are well past halfway so newness is less of a factor.
protect Zach needs to be the number one thing as like it or not: no Zach = no wins
unfortunately i don't think there is a "fix the offense" button that can be pushed for instant results.
Except that Hogan is in the booth and we see that Jackson is on the sideline not calling plays.
Which brings to mind something I forgot to mention earlier. Not once did I see Strev use an Ipad or talk to a coach or even to Zach. I did see him talk to himself. Why? At the very least after a pic or busted play everyone wants to see what happened and discuss.
OShea just wouldn't do
it,
A) hed have to admit he made a mistake
B) his loyalty to everyone around him despite what is needed prevents it you just have to look at our roster for vets that are past prime
Quote from: theaardvark on September 14, 2025, 05:33:13 PMWe have JJ on staff, brought in after Hogan was named, and you have to think that hire as QB coach had to be made with the idea a veteran ex-OC would be essential in assisting Hogan.
IF, as some here conjecture, that MOS is not happy with Hogan, how hard is it to flip the positions or JJ and Hogan?
Is it that time yet?
Yes, it is time.
Our play calling is predictable and defenses are jumping routes before our recievers made their cuts and our pass pro if horrible. The change should have been made weeks ago, but I am sure MOS is letting Hogan work himself out of this, which he isn't capable of doing. Our offense is painful to watch, especially the points given up after turnovers, we have to lead the league in that category. Tough to win games when A) offense doesn't score enough and B) turns the ball over giving the opponent easy points on the board. Time to change things up.
Quote from: The Zipp on September 14, 2025, 11:39:17 PMpretty hard to make any sort of accurate suggestions on roles without knowing what their roles actually are / maybe we are seeing a JJ offense already??
play calling hasn't been great, the execution hasn't been great, we are still having long stretches of ineptitude during games and players missing assignments.
we are well past halfway so newness is less of a factor.
protect Zach needs to be the number one thing as like it or not: no Zach = no wins
unfortunately i don't think there is a "fix the offense" button that can be pushed for instant results.
Best post of the week. Someone thinking about more than just what is in front of their noses. Refreshing.
MOS has already said that Jarious (and "everyone else") is providing input and help to Hogan. He is probably underplaying the whole situation. As you said, this may already be a Jarious O. Maybe Jarious is the failure, not Hogan.
We also need to differentiate 2 things:
1) play calling in game
2) play design / scheme
Quote from: Waffler on September 15, 2025, 12:00:40 AMExcept that Hogan is in the booth and we see that Jackson is on the sideline not calling plays.
Hogan may be doing #1, for sure. But I think our big problem is #2. Our design &
scheme is lazy and braindead. Demski didn't get INTed because of the play call, or even the execution, it was because we think that straightforward simple curl is going to work when everyone knows that's what we're doing on that down and distance and there is 0% we are going over the top.
That's scheme, and that very well might fall equally (or more) on Jarious' shoulders.
As for execution, we have a very good REC corps, even without Schoen. Everyone except Mitchell (and before him Sterns) is 2nd year or more. They know the WPG way of doing things. No excuses. And even Mitchell has talent.
I actually put very little blame on the current starting RECs because they are being set up to fail with the crap schemes. And it's starting to show on their faces: they are losing faith in the system. And if that happens, it's all over. MOS/coords need to make major changes to scheme and coord situation if they don't want to not only lose all the time, but
risk losing our best players in FA when they have lost all the "fun" and are sick of losing with no hope in the system.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 14, 2025, 06:25:16 PMI think lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball is the limiting factor.
I think we have one of the best REC corps in the league, even without Schoen. Add in our IR guys like Sterns and we even have good depth, too.
Pokey, Demski, Wheatie, and even Mitchell are more than capable of blowing you up with a deep home run. They are all fast and shift, and have good hands.
If Zach had protection and our scheme wasn't complete garbage, I think we'd be lighting up D's like we're used to seeing in previous seasons.
That's why it's so disappointing. So much easier to just say "weak RECs". But it's not true.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 15, 2025, 02:41:28 AMI think we have one of the best REC corps in the league, even without Schoen. Add in our IR guys like Sterns and we even have good depth, too.
Pokey, Demski, Wheatie, and even Mitchell are more than capable of blowing you up with a deep home run. They are all fast and shift, and have good hands.
If Zach had protection and our scheme wasn't complete garbage, I think we'd be lighting up D's like we're used to seeing in previous seasons.
That's why it's so disappointing. So much easier to just say "weak RECs". But it's not true.
I'm not happy with our offensive production, and I think Hogan has to wear some share of the blame, but I'm not convinced the major problem is a "garbage scheme". I think most CFL teams run alot of the same route trees, and passing plays. Success often depends on execution. That is on getting time in the pocket (something we have not been giving our QBs alot of the time), the QB making the right read (Zach is a veteran who is pretty good at this), an accurate throw (Zach is not perfect, but not bad most of the time), and the receiver's skills in term of either finding the soft spot in the zone, or in man coverage beating a DB with a move or outstanding catch. Demski has had alot of success this year, because he is a smart veteran receiver who knows what to do to get open, including finding that soft space in the zone. He's also one of the few receivers who can actually get some YAC yards also. Wilson since he came back has had some success also. The other receivers have struggled to produce. None of our receivers are going to give you the Kenny Lawler 50/50 ball on a regular basis. I think if you gave Hogan the 2019 O-line (Bryant and Neufeld 6 years younger, Desjarlais at Guard, Jamarcus at RT, can't believe how good that line was), and threw in one of a healthy Schoen or Lawler, this offence would be hugely successful. Strev cannot read a defence and cannot pass. He's set up to fail.
Hogan studied under Buck for 3 years, has Jackson to mentor him, and was a coach for the Als for two years, and in college for 4. He was also a QB in college. He may not be the best OC in the league, but the idea that he is clueless, or does not understand rudimentary offensive football is a stretch. I think the major problem is talent related, with the OC a secondary concern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD7jjdYJ0hA
This is Lapo's commentary on our offence against Ottawa. Had a lot off complementary things to say. Yeah, he's not going to diss Hogan in a video, but I don't get the sense from him that Hogan is clueless when watching this video. It also points out how often the success of a play depends on the QB's read, and the receiver running a smart route.
I'll just add that turnovers have been a huge problem with our offense, particularly interceptions. And a lot of that is on Zach. He's lost some arm strength, I think his decision making is worse (? Concussion related) he's under more pressure in the pocket, and he's trying to make something happen when there's nothing there, which is partly on our receivers not getting open.
Streveller is not the QB of the future. Might as well, see what we have in Wilson.
Quote from: M.O.A.B. on September 15, 2025, 04:09:22 AMStreveller is not the QB of the future. Might as well, see what we have in Wilson.
I totally agree. Not sure why they even resigned Streveler in the off season as he looked finished last season already.
Even if zach comes back, this team still may be done for this season. He's getting bad pass protection and mediocre running game to keep the heat off.
The issue(s) are complicated.
- We are dealing with injuries to, and aging offensive and defensive lines,
- An aging starting quarterback who has been also fighting injuries,
- No clear cut indication who is qualified to the "next starting QB'
- A new Offensive Coordinator,
- The recruitment of several new players who have yet to prove themselves,
All of which puts both the offence and defence in question.
The good news is we remain in the playoff battle.
But there is work to be done, questions to be asked, legitimate concerns to be addressed now and in the future.
Some of the issues you mention are complicated. The Hogan criticism should be more nuanced as it truly is complicated.
The rest? Not sure. Not really.
Getting pounded along the defensive line isn't complicated. Not being able to pick up interior pressure isn't complicated. Streveler throwing into a window that doesn't exist over the middle and having it picked off again is not. Streveler not reading a screen pass is not either. These are just fundamentally the result of bad football. Our free agent signing have largely been busts and we've collected enough sample size to make a determination with six games left in the season. They are what they are. Excuses can be made for them, but they truly are excuses at this point.
We have a bad receiving core. One of the worst in the league. Our O and D lines are both sub-par. Strev is one of the worst 2nd string QB's in the league.
We need major changes, and it's best to start with NFL rejects as soon as possible. Bring in guys to replace the players we know we have to replace in the off season and give them some reps this year.
" think if you gave Hogan the 2019 O-line (Bryant and Neufeld 6 years younger, Desjarlais at Guard, Jamarcus at RT, can't believe how good that line was), and threw in one of a healthy Schoen or Lawler, this offence would be hugely successful. "
Calgarys decline coincided with losing Stan, our ascent began with getting him.
The team built a top level o line, lost some players, replaced them Successfully for a few years, but we've finally run out of steam.
It's Hard to find a Receiver and throw a pass, when there's a couple of d lineman jumping on you one and a half seconds after the snap. repeatedly.
It's Easy to blame Hogan, but I'm Not sure there's any "scheme" that can make up for second rate players on the O line.
Our Defense is not exciting, but it is effective.
Quote from: TBURGESS on September 15, 2025, 02:03:25 PMWe have a bad receiving core. One of the worst in the league. Our O and D lines are both sub-par. Strev is one of the worst 2nd string QB's in the league.
We need major changes, and it's best to start :-* NFL rejects as soon as possible. Bring in guys to replace the players we know we have to replace in the off season and give them some reps this year.
Our receiving core of Demski, Wilson,and Wheatfield is decent
Clercius is showing improvement.
What we are missing is in the mix.and coaching.
We dont seem to have that reciever that can make A 50/50 ball seem like 70/30
Also that speedy, elusive reciever ala Pimpleton, Philpot, or Snead.
Wilson, Wheatfield, Mitchell and to some extent Demski are all similar in their styles.All have decent hands and dont seem to have much ability to adjust to when Zacs in trouble.
The other factor whether its oline collapsing, oc, our receivers very seldom do our receivers come back for the ball We constantly see that against teams we play the reciever fakes long then comes back to the qb, its very difficult to stop
Finally our routes appear to be very predictable based on how many get jumped Do we have a receivers coach cause it shows in lack of execution in blocks and how they protect the ball from the db
I think the design and scheme has alot to do with our difficulties. It appears our routes are not well designed for what we have...many many instances this season we have made very questionable calls on offence, situationally poor in my opinion type calls, It's not that all of our playcalls are bad, but we don't seem to understand the situation, the time management, the personelle correctly. I am not excusing some execution and some talent just not being good enough, but I believe the scheme we are trying to run and when we try certain plays are more of a factor.....I really do believe that both the LDC and the Banjo Bowl, could have been won if we only had a couple better calls/schemes, timing of "trying/taking a shot".....So in summery I do not think our offence is good enough that is obvious, and the stats back it up...but I say the biggest factor is the play calls, schemes and situational/game clock awareness....not the on field talent
Quote from: TBURGESS on September 15, 2025, 02:03:25 PMWe have a bad receiving core. One of the worst in the league. Our O and D lines are both sub-par. Strev is one of the worst 2nd string QB's in the league.
We need major changes, and it's best to start with NFL rejects as soon as possible. Bring in guys to replace the players we know we have to replace in the off season and give them some reps this year.
Have to give the Riders credit, despite their success this season they're being proactive by continuing to bring in a NFL cuts and evaluating them. Bombers have a mostly new scouting staff this year, but so far haven't seen any evidence they're doing anything.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 15, 2025, 04:28:13 PMHave to give the Riders credit, despite their success this season they're being proactive by continuing to bring in a NFL cuts and evaluating them. Bombers have a mostly new scouting staff this year, but so far haven't seen any evidence they're doing anything.
We have a scouting staff?? Could have fooled me! Who did they recruit that stands out???
We have had very poor results from scouting new American talent over the past couple of years. No impact D lineman, no impact linebackers, having to make do with Bridges and Lawson at corner. Our assessment of Logan and Mitchell were pretty poor also. Wilson and Wheatfall were nice finds at receiver, and Vaval may end up being a good returner.
Danny McManus is not new, he's been around a long time. Maybe too long, its possible he's lost his edge. Not sure how the other 3 scouts are doing, they are all new, but have alot of experience. Probably not fair to blame the new group for the last few off seasons.
Quote from: bunker on September 15, 2025, 05:42:17 PMWe have had very poor results from scouting new American talent over the past couple of years. No impact D lineman, no impact linebackers, having to make do with Bridges and Lawson at corner. Our assessment of Logan and Mitchell were pretty poor also. Wilson and Wheatfall were nice finds at receiver, and Vaval may end up being a good returner.
Danny McManus is not new, he's been around a long time. Maybe too long, its possible he's lost his edge. Not sure how the other 3 scouts are doing, they are all new, but have alot of experience. Probably not fair to blame the new group for the last few off seasons.
Looking in the rear-view mirror at past scouting results does no good, have to judge the new scouts on what they're producing right now. Results please!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 15, 2025, 07:10:40 PMLooking in the rear-view mirror at past scouting results does no good, have to judge the new scouts on what they're producing right now. Results please!
My only concern is that Walter's ultimately is responsible for our results, and they have been poor, not only American scouting, but I'm not impressed with our drafting either. It's been ok, but hardly lights out.
I am no expert on what's causing the woes of the Bombers this year, at least on offense, but I think the Offensive Line has a lot to do with it. I suspect much of Collaros's interceptions are due to him forcing the ball due to a lack of protection (i.e., it breaks down), though of course Zach throws a lot of interceptions.
But the Bomber run game is also not as effective as it has been previously. That's also due to the Offensive Line.
I'm not saying fixing the OL fixes everything, but it really helps in the same way that when it comes to personal fitness, strengthening your core muscles provides a firm foundation for so much more.
We simply have not been playing good football. Our biggest issue has been TURNOVERS!!! Quit turning the stinking ball over and giving the other team 10+ easy points a game and the bulk of our turnovers have been the result of poor passing. Make better decisions and throws with the ball. Throwing the ball away is not the end of the world. Starting the game off with a pick six is.
Quote from: bunker on September 15, 2025, 03:30:21 AMI'm not happy with our offensive production, and I think Hogan has to wear some share of the blame, but I'm not convinced the major problem is a "garbage scheme".
I think if you gave Hogan the 2019 O-line (Bryant and Neufeld 6 years younger, Desjarlais at Guard, Jamarcus at RT, can't believe how good that line was), and threw in one of a healthy Schoen or Lawler, this offence would be hugely successful.
The '19-'21 OL would have helped ZERO on the Strev/Demski curl INT. That was scheme. That pass was doomed to INT or huge blowup because everyone knows that's what we do, and we won't do anything more complicated than that.
Also would have helped ZERO on the Wheatie screen INT.
My main beef with Hogan isn't that he's mentally defective, or even a bad play caller: it's that
he doesn't do anything creative. He uses less motion than Lapo/Buck did. Less deception. Less "moves". In fact, I bet all that stuff is just leftovers from Buck, and it'll slowly die away just like Buck did to all the Lapo stuff.
I used that short curl as an example, where I think EDM did a stem/double move on the exact same play and thus their REC was wide open for a dirt easy 4Y pass which is WHAT THEY SHOULD BE. Hogan had Demski run 4Y up and just plant & turn and thus was INT.
And we've been doing this EXACT SAME PLAY since at least '22 when we started losing cups because we couldn't complete a short pass. They are all either batdowns, hit-drops, or INTs.
Just once why can't our 4Y route include a fake to the outside OR SOMETHING, ANYTHING, so that our guys have a chance. This is why Demski's face looked the way it did. Not because he failed, but because he's being SET UP to fail. And that is the greatest depression of all. And if we don't stop it, everyone will "quit" (believing) and it's over, both now on-field, and in FA26.
And this is all on Hogan (and partially MOS).
Quote from: markf on September 15, 2025, 02:12:06 PMIt's Easy to blame Hogan, but I'm Not sure there's any "scheme" that can make up for second rate players on the O line.
But scheme led directly to the 2 INTs in the last game. They were doomed before the ball was even thrown.
I think our problem is 40% OL, 50% scheme, 10% QB (even Zach, more when Strev is in).
If the OL doesn't give Zach his 2.7s a QB needs to be effective (minus big blitzes) then the problem is OL. Our OL often fails miserably, but other times can hold them back long enough for any real double-move routes to develop. If nothing has developed after 3s then that's 100% scheme. (Again, I think our RECs are fast enough and vet enough to run good routes.)
Getting even a 25% improvement in JUST ONE of these areas can make a big difference. That is what we must hope for. If OL can improve a bit, and scheme improve a lot, we can win bigly (very doable). If scheme improves a bit and OL improves a lot (unlikely), we'll also win bigly. If everyone improves by 25-50% then we'll win the cup.
Quote from: Pete on September 15, 2025, 02:41:13 PMThe other factor whether its oline collapsing, oc, our receivers very seldom do our receivers come back for the ball We constantly see that against teams we play the reciever fakes long then comes back to the qb, its very difficult to stop
Yes, teams will kill us with the run 25Y downfield in man/match, then sprint back 13Y to LoS for an easy, uncontested 12Y. The only way you stop that is pressure on the QB, because it takes 4-5s to develop. Teams are destroying us with this, everywhere on the field, but HAM was especially doing it on the wide out.
And we can't do that because our QB barely has 2.7s every snap. If you want to stop the DBs jumping every route, and you don't have time to wait the 4s for a come-back route, then the only other option is you need to chuck it behind the cheating DB a heck of a lot on double-move routes. Like 30% of the time, which is something we haven't done for a loooong time.
There was a great pass Cody made, maybe the 1st TD of the last game?, where he had little time, rush was coming, and he just chucked up a rainbow on a timing/spot EZ corner route. That also works when your OL isn't giving you time, and I have no idea why we can't do this. Just practice the timing and spot, and the rainbow takes care of the no-protection problem because it's in the air so long you can throw after 2s instead of 3 or 4. Put it far enough back and no one can INT it.
Why do other teams get nice things?
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 15, 2025, 04:28:13 PMHave to give the Riders credit, despite their success this season they're being proactive by continuing to bring in a NFL cuts and evaluating them. Bombers have a mostly new scouting staff this year, but so far haven't seen any evidence they're doing anything.
I'm convinced that going deep into the post-season is often a function of having the best scouting/DP ELC finds in the last 2 seasons. Look at '23 MTL. They won it all that year because of Ento/Dequoy/Uguak/Mack and others who are near top at their spot
but on ELC.
Look at when we have the most success. Mostly always when we had ELC guys who were making massive impact, and near top in the league. Like Desjar, Schoen, Pokey, Holm, Nichols, Alford, Grant, etc.
ELC all-stars are like a magic CFL cheat code. The more you have, the better your team, because then you can afford to stack your roster with top vet FAs to fill the other spots.
Who is our scout/DP ELC superstar this season? Pokey got a post-NFL bump so he's probably not cheap anymore. Wheatie counts, but he's not at the level of the guys listed above; neither is Clercius. No one starting on D qualifies, I don't think.
I guess Vaval could be it for a potential ELC all-star, but he'll have to have a mega end to the season to earn it.
And that is a huge reason to why we're struggling. Our scouts/DPs did (near) absolutely nothing this season. And there's not enough money to fill all the holes with all-star FAs. It's certainly killing us on the OL and DL...
So which team do you think has "won" the battle of the scouts/ELCs this season?
This is not hard to figure out, all you have to do is look at the frustration on our star players faces. Players are also starting to in game fight with each other (Streveler and Demski in the Hammer). So much like a hockey coach that loses his bench, do you make changes to your players or do you move on from the coach? Jason Hogan should have "Never" been given this job, "Especially In A Home Grey Cup Season"!
To me Hogans coaching deficiencies show up in the reciever group
The execution is lacking, in blocking, route running, and making adjustments when Zac is scrambling.
On a lot of our interceptions,as stated above, it seems like the reciever makes no move to come back to the ball or block out the defender.Also our schemes especially on short passes aren't resulting in openings, Zac is continually having to search for openings and having to drop in the perfect pass. Timing routes are rare.
As an OC he makes a good running back coach.
Have to wonder what Jackson is doing thru all of this.
Quote from: Pete on September 16, 2025, 02:30:16 PMTo me Hogans coaching deficiencies show up in the reciever group
The execution is lacking, in blocking, route running, and making adjustments when Zac is scrambling.
On a lot of our interceptions,as stated above, it seems like the reciever makes no move to come back to the ball or block out the defender.Also our schemes especially on short passes aren't resulting in openings, Zac is continually having to search for openings and having to drop in the perfect pass. Timing routes are rare.
As an OC he makes a good running back coach.
Have to wonder what Jackson is doing thru all of this.
Hogan didn't have much say in receivers that were recruited. So he's stuck with trying to get the best out of those that survived the final cut down date.
His inexperienced showed and I don't think he got the best out of what he had. It is fair to say he doesn't have the best receiver group in the CFL. Middle of pack overall? Other issues with OL and injuries to Collaros etc.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 16, 2025, 03:12:36 PMHogan didn't have much say in receivers that were recruited. So he's stuck with trying to get the best out of those that survived the final cut down date.
His inexperienced showed and I don't think he got the best out of what he had. It is fair to say he doesn't have the best receiver group in the CFL. Middle of pack overall? Other issues with OL and injuries to Collaros etc.
no matter what hand hes dealt, he still has to coach and plan. Our receivers for the most part dont drop the ball,in fact they are better than most. Its in the other areas that we suffer which is a reflection of coaching and execution
Quote from: Pete on September 16, 2025, 03:31:38 PMno matter what hand hes dealt, he still has to coach and plan. Our receivers for the most part dont drop the ball,in fact they are better than most. Its in the other areas that we suffer which is a reflection of coaching and execution
We have a receivers coach, Billy Jean, who is new and not very experienced. But I think the major problem is talent, both on the receiving group and the O-line. Plus no receiving group will succeed with Strev at QB. With Zach, Demski and more recently Wilson were having some success, because they are better receivers. Are we going to blame Marty Costello for the O-line problems? It's a talent issue there, and I think it's primarily a talent issue with our passing game.
Quote from: bunker on September 16, 2025, 03:58:06 PMWe have a receivers coach, Billy Jean, who is new and not very experienced. But I think the major problem is talent, both on the receiving group and the O-line. Plus no receiving group will succeed with Strev at QB. With Zach, Demski and more recently Wilson were having some success, because they are better receivers. Are we going to blame Marty Costello for the O-line problems? It's a talent issue there, and I think it's primarily a talent issue with our passing game.
I think what's mostly lacking in the Bomber receiving corps was an initial vision, before any receivers are chosen desirable body types and skill-sets should be identified. Without a solid plan they ended up with a miss-mash of different skill sets that often over-lap and cancel each other out rather than compliment each other and enhance the abilities of the entire group.
Sask, BC and now the Stamps have all gotten bigger at receiver through careful drafting and recruitment and consequentially all 3 teams are on the rise because they provide their harried QB's with bigger targets to hit even when they're not always open. Another great attribute to seek is intelligent receivers that understand the entire route tree and can adjust their route to find the soft spots in the defence and help out the QB. Dressler and Woli were great examples, but there are a number of these receivers throughout the league they could acquire because their physical attributes are usually somewhat underwhelming.
The team has probably lost Schoen for good and Demski is in the last 2-3 years of his career, now is the time to plan ahead and develop a strategy to stock the future receiving corps with the right type of bodies.
The only time Hogan was ever an OC in his career was at the high school level and frankly it shows.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 16, 2025, 05:53:48 PMWithout a solid plan they ended up with a miss-mash of different skill sets that often over-lap and cancel each other out rather than compliment each other and enhance the abilities of the entire group.
So true. All but Clercius are lanky/skinny Kenny-lite types. You need at least 2-3 inside bruisers like Baily & Woli used to be.
However, I think we really did try in FA. Reggie White would have been this. Schoen is also capable, as a dual-purpose guy. Maybe Sterns to a lesser extent. All 3 are out. So only Clercius should be in the flat taking massive hits on crossers.
So now we have Wheatie, Mitchell & Demski doing it. Ouch. Wheatie especially has shown he can handle it, but he's really not cut out for that long term. Demski has always handled it, but he's not a huge guy and there's injury risk.
Yet we aren't adjusting our game plan to accommodate having 4 home-run guys. I want more tosses beyond the route so our guys have to dive or it's on the turf (no INT possibility). This should be easy to do since everyone and their dog cheats up short on our routes. And stop underthrowing everything: chuck it all super deep to the corners in man where it's more likely to be beyond everyone, than short and getting picked. If the ol' arm can't deliver, throw it .5 sec sooner and put more arc on it.
Quote from: RebusRankin on September 17, 2025, 02:06:26 AMThe only time Hogan was ever an OC in his career was at the high school level and frankly it shows.
It's pretty evident he's got no clue at the pro level. He's made ostensibly zero progress in his role as OC this season.
OUr scouting staff lost Rigmaden and Goveia from when we were titans of recruitment.
Can you ever replace those guys? Its tough. Maybe a Lapo, who has his fingers everywhere? If only we could pay him what the job is worth, and not be hamstrung by FO $SMS
That is definately a side of this team that does not get noticed enough, for sure. Walters can only sign and keep players that have made it to the club, MOS can only coach up the players Walters gives to him.
We need the group that gets the players into the system. Or, we have to start buying players others have found. And $SMS doesn't allow for much of that.
Oshea bringing up 2019 Strev is insulting and embarrassing for fans.
This coming from the guy who always says he's on to next week and doesn't look back at previous anything in football.
I can only suspect Wade Miller is not happy with the team and Osheas attitude.
I wish we could trade Oshea for Dinwiddie. It's time for a fresh voice i think
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 17, 2025, 05:35:37 AMSo true. All but Clercius are lanky/skinny Kenny-lite types. You need at least 2-3 inside bruisers like Baily & Woli used to be.
However, I think we really did try in FA. Reggie White would have been this. Schoen is also capable, as a dual-purpose guy. Maybe Sterns to a lesser extent. All 3 are out. So only Clercius should be in the flat taking massive hits on crossers.
So now we have Wheatie, Mitchell & Demski doing it. Ouch. Wheatie especially has shown he can handle it, but he's really not cut out for that long term. Demski has always handled it, but he's not a huge guy and there's injury risk.
Yet we aren't adjusting our game plan to accommodate having 4 home-run guys. I want more tosses beyond the route so our guys have to dive or it's on the turf (no INT possibility). This should be easy to do since everyone and their dog cheats up short on our routes. And stop underthrowing everything: chuck it all super deep to the corners in man where it's more likely to be beyond everyone, than short and getting picked. If the ol' arm can't deliver, throw it .5 sec sooner and put more arc on it.
If I was a GM I'd be looking for Nik Lewis 2.0 an inside bruiser with good hands who loves to block that can run over DB's if not out run them, a Tyrone Jones on offence.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 17, 2025, 05:01:04 PMIf I was a GM I'd be looking for Nik Lewis 2.0 an inside bruiser with good hands who loves to block that can run over DB's if not out run them, a Tyrone Jones on offence.
Like Rasheed Bailey?
Quote from: theaardvark on September 17, 2025, 09:19:02 PMLike Rasheed Bailey?
Bigger, at least 240 lbs. of thunder, there must be a few tight-ends in the NFL that fit the mould.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 17, 2025, 10:16:06 PMBigger, at least 240 lbs. of thunder, there must be a few tight-ends in the NFL that fit the mould.
Lewis was a unicorn. 5'10", 240 lbs (maybe more later in his career), a real bowling ball. The average NFL tight end is 6'4", 230 lbs. For some reason tight ends in the CFL seemed to have fall off after the Peter Dalla Riva era, maybe due to the good ones being gobbled up by the NFL, plus our larger field which gives the advantage to smaller faster receivers. We also tend to use O-lineman and fullbacks for our "heavy" sets.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on September 17, 2025, 01:42:03 PMIt's pretty evident he's got no clue at the pro level. He's made ostensibly zero progress in his role as OC this season.
Our offense is very predicable as well, In Hamilton on the first interception it was pretty clear that Jamal Peters knew that if Streveler fakes the sweep to Demski hes going either run or throw the quick out. By getting ahead of the receivers he was in position to stop both. (he also didnt really have to worry about Strev or the Bomber faking it as we are not that creative
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 17, 2025, 10:16:06 PMBigger, at least 240 lbs. of thunder, there must be a few tight-ends in the NFL that fit the mould.
Actually, we could just fatten up Strevler :D
Quote from: bunker on September 17, 2025, 11:34:44 PMActually, we could just fatten up Strevler :D
LOL, there you go!
Quote from: Sway on September 17, 2025, 02:32:59 PMOshea bringing up 2019 Strev is insulting and embarrassing for fans.
This coming from the guy who always says he's on to next week and doesn't look back at previous anything in football.
I can only suspect Wade Miller is not happy with the team and Osheas attitude.
I wish we could trade Oshea for Dinwiddie. It's time for a fresh voice i think
You know, I really admire and respect Dinwiddie for what he's done and accomplished as a coach. Who knew our old backup Qb, who wasn't very good as a player, would become an offensive genius in this league and win a GC with a backup Qb- something he couldn't do as a player. Offensive scheme wise, he's light years ahead of our sad lot of coaches. And he's a fiery guy, not afraid to call his players out, and not afraid to get in the face of an opponents bench after they were chirping them all game (last game vs Edmonton).
Quote from: bunker on September 17, 2025, 11:34:44 PMActually, we could just fatten up Strevler :D
Fatten him up AND get Strevie on the same juice Oullette was doing last season... Keep the brace on, and just steamroll everyone. LOL
There's actually some merit to this... and he can do SY and try the odd pass!
;D ;D
In the Sep 17 Hogan presser in the video links page, at around 2:15 some dude tells Hogan something like "Brady said they could be put in better situations". To me that's Brady saying "coaches are failing us", "don't blame just the players".
Either Hogan didn't understand the question/comment or he was playing coy. He deflected and said something like "good players have each other's backs". After he did say something about "his job is to put the players into better situations". (everything paraphrased)
If Brady's (hearsay) comments are indicative of what the locker room is feeling, there could be trouble in river city. That means they know they are better players than what is showing up on game day, and that it's the coaches/OC letting them down.
Well, at least people are starting to identify the problem... that's step #1.
Hogan does not have nearly enough experience. None as a player. And a limited contributor as a running back coach. Come on? The team played the loyalty card. Nice! Are we doing any favors? Zac should sue for malpractice. We have a o line that is probably the most poorest. We try, but as one poster said, why not bring back Singh?.
Why not sign Lawler? Gambling in horrific knee injured players Has not paid off. I am so sorry #83 hurt his knee again. At. Least Strev has produced o his potential.
How about the flubbed signings in free agency.
I guess the season started with a mystery suspension of angelic Zac. It's been a journey that's for sure!
It's interesting how quickly fans turn on their team.
Quote from: markf on September 18, 2025, 11:37:10 PMIt's interesting how quickly fans turn on their team.
Yup, was the same story before our mini dynasty run, people get impatient and fast. Like the ocean comes in waves. I prefer to ride high.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 18, 2025, 09:23:14 AMIn the Sep 17 Hogan presser in the video links page, at around 2:15 some dude tells Hogan something like "Brady said they could be put in better situations". To me that's Brady saying "coaches are failing us", "don't blame just the players".
Either Hogan didn't understand the question/comment or he was playing coy. He deflected and said something like "good players have each other's backs". After he did say something about "his job is to put the players into better situations". (everything paraphrased)
If Brady's (hearsay) comments are indicative of what the locker room is feeling, there could be trouble in river city. That means they know they are better players than what is showing up on game day, and that it's the coaches/OC letting them down.
Well, at least people are starting to identify the problem... that's step #1.
Admitting is the 1st step
Quote from: markf on September 18, 2025, 11:37:10 PMIt's interesting how quickly fans turn on their team.
There's definitely been a couple.
BUT, pointing out things that we disagree with or would do differently is not turning on the team. It's actively engaging with the team.
But people questioning their season ticket packages or asking for refunds in Grey Cup tickets get no patience from me.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 18, 2025, 09:23:14 AMIn the Sep 17 Hogan presser in the video links page, at around 2:15 some dude tells Hogan something like "Brady said they could be put in better situations". To me that's Brady saying "coaches are failing us", "don't blame just the players".
Either Hogan didn't understand the question/comment or he was playing coy. He deflected and said something like "good players have each other's backs". After he did say something about "his job is to put the players into better situations". (everything paraphrased)
If Brady's (hearsay) comments are indicative of what the locker room is feeling, there could be trouble in river city. That means they know they are better players than what is showing up on game day, and that it's the coaches/OC letting them down.
Well, at least people are starting to identify the problem... that's step #1.
I was surprised by that comment, just wondering when Brady made it and to who? One thing I've noticed about Brady, the longer he talks the more trouble he gets into with his words, it's not hard to get him to reveal what he's really thinking.
Oh ya, and watch the Sep 17 MOS presser! He coyly distances himself from the shambles OC / scheme / playcalling issue by saying something like "I have basically nothing to do with scheme & playcalling". He spelled out what his role is, which is what I said in other threads: provide overall direction, but no X&O's, no specific play calls.
I maintain that our biggest issue IS the X&O's... or lack thereof. We must have the dumbest, simplest play book in the whole league. It's like the anti-Lapo book.
I think Jj may be here for MOS. I think O'Shea, leaves after this season.
But it was totally weird.JJ did not show up till after training camp?
I thought they hired Jj after hogan. But when did they hire Hogan. Plus when you have a back like Olivera, there isn't much to coach. Plus Buck would be the mastermind. Something has never added up. Just thinking out loud. Something is amiss though. As we have said why were they dormant in the off season? Why did they not sign Lawler.
It's been weird. Putting out fires all over the place. Please trade for Fajardo if the Esks are out, he's a pro. Do not get VAJ. Poor guy!
Quote from: DM83 on September 20, 2025, 08:23:34 AMI think Jj may be here for MOS. I think O'Shea, leaves after this season.
But it was totally weird.JJ did not show up till after training camp?
That's some major tinfoil there!
For MOS to leave (especially in favor of JJ) one of these would have to be true:
1) MOS is retiring
2) MOS has run out of WFC coach cap and will only get a raise elsewhere
3) MOS is going to be a GM somewhere (even here)
There is literally no other reason it could be.
Quote from: DM83 on September 20, 2025, 08:23:34 AMI thought they hired Jj after hogan. But when did they hire Hogan. Plus when you have a back like Olivera, there isn't much to coach.
JJ is ostensibly the QB coach, not the RB coach.
However, your curiosity is valid because it really never made sense that JJ would go from HC/OC roles to lowly "QB Coach". There really is no reason to do this other than:
1) He's all washed up and this is the best he could do (unlikely)
2) He's being groomed for bigger things in WPG (your conjecture)
3) We're being
sneaky in compensation
#2 & #3 can both be true.
If there are big blowups/shakeups to occur in WFC, they'll probably keep it totally under wraps until it actually happens.