I'll start off by saying, I agree in general with MOS that personal health info is private info; personal medical info is protected in MB by privacy legislation...BUT...during MOS' media availability today (Sept 9), he was completely disingenuous and quite frankly insulted the intelligence of fans and those concerned for Zach's health.
In response to questions asking for his response to Milt's comments after the LDC that he wouldn't let Zach take another snap if he was his son (on the assumption that Zach suffered another concussion) MOS said those comments were "cavalier" and that reporters and fans shouldn't speculate that Zach suffered another concussion...fast forward a few hours later and Zach is listed as having a head injury...c'mon man...leave it at personal med info is private...the cumulative effect of Zach's "head" injuries is concerning...no right minded fan or objective onlooker believes Zach should continue to unduly risk his long term health playing ball...but don't insult objective onlookers and fans by saying we shouldn't assume Zach was concussed when a seemingly nothing burger of contact to the head combined with his history of "head" injuries caused him to lay motionless on the turf...given the evolving knowledge of the impact multiple concussions may have on a person's long term health and concerns like CTE, MOS needs to step away from this conversation and let the pro's properly advise Zach...just leave it at that...to be fair I think MOS' response was a gut reaction.. protect my guy...but he just ended up looking foolish and ignorant IMHO...that's my rant...go blue.
I think Mike O'Shea is one of the best coaches in Winnipeg Blue Bombers history. But there's a flaw in his thinking on injury transparency.
If the team doesn't share reliable (and from their perspective, controllable) information, the vacuum will be filled with rumours, half-truths, and unverified reports. That's just how media and fan ecosystems work.
A simple question back to O'Shea is: are those rumours really better for a player's image, livelihood, and life after football than sharing the truth?
It's Communications 101. When you don't provide clarity, the narrative writes itself.
Transparency builds trust. Strategic silence, unless part of a clear, intentional plan (e.g., protecting competitive advantage in playoffs), often backfires because stakeholders, fans, media, even sponsors don't tolerate ambiguity for long.
Silence will cost more than transparency in the long run. It always does. You can get away with it if it's a foot injury to a special teams player. It's much harder when it's the face of a franchise and brain trauma. He aught to be able to understand the difference by now.
Well, Milt doesn't know if Zach has a concussion or not. Only MOS, Zach, trainer & doc know that.
Ignore Zach for a moment, think back to the end of Ricky Ray. There was similar talk. For years, actually. "Ray can't take one more hit" blah blah blah. It wasn't until that devastating hi-lo hit and Ray clearly out cold for a long time that Ray seemed to decide to call it quits. Even then, I think he finished the season(?).
Zach's not dumb. Let Zach figure it out and decide. I'm happy if he plays (happier if he wins), and will understand if he doesn't. Milt said his peace: everyone has an opinion. I like it when the panel takes a stand/side rather than just waffles. Even if I don't agree.
Knowing Zach, he won't call it quits mid-season in the home GC year...
I feel this statement is MOS's version of transparency.
And when you listen to his comment that he refuses to share injury news for privacy reasons and he will not violate that right/trust. It's hard to legitimately disagree with him.
What's our reason? Whining that we want to know? I don't like it but I completely understand it.
Quote from: Jesse on September 10, 2025, 11:55:48 AMI feel this statement is MOS's version of transparency.
And when you listen to his comment that he refuses to share injury news for privacy reasons and he will not violate that right/trust. It's hard to legitimately disagree with him.
What's our reason? Whining that we want to know? I don't like it but I completely understand it.
I'm generally on-side with Mike O'Shea's position. Fans don't need a blow-by-blow on every roster injury. If Logan has a quad issue, fine, who cares what it is exactly. If a backup lineman has an ACL or MCL problem, it doesn't change much for the public conversation. That level of detail isn't necessary.
But the face of the franchise is different. Zach Collaros isn't just another player. He's a quasi-public figure, marketed relentlessly to fans and sponsors. Walk into the Bomber Store and you're greeted by a $300 Collaros jersey front and centre. Sponsors pay hundreds of thousands to be associated with him and what he represents. The team itself builds campaigns around his image and leadership.
That's exactly why a higher level of transparency is required. No sponsor wants their brand tied to silence around concussions. No fan wants to wonder if winning is being prioritized over a star player's long-term health. And in the absence of facts, rumours and speculation spread quickly, causing as much or more damage than the truth itself.
It's a poor look from O'Shea who should be able to see the issue from all sides by now. Maybe he does and doesn't care.
I came on the forum this morning to see what's going on with Zach. Do we not know yet?
We should know a little more when practice starts this morning.
Quote from: Jesse on September 10, 2025, 11:55:48 AMI feel this statement is MOS's version of transparency.
And when you listen to his comment that he refuses to share injury news for privacy reasons and he will not violate that right/trust. It's hard to legitimately disagree with him.
What's our reason? Whining that we want to know? I don't like it but I completely understand it.
I can see it both ways, by ushering Zach off the field into the "white tent" or straight to the dressing room the Bombers control the narrative and can trot him out again or next week if Zach agrees to play and is physically up to it. I doubt the league has medical personnel in every stadium to examine concussed players, as I've heard the "spotter" is located in T.O. and may be no more than an extension of CC. They leave it up to the teams to manage the protocol,
MOS is a believer in free will, if Zach still wants to play, he's going to let him. I think the CFL in general goes along with this concept, it's a bit of a sham but it's almost essential to keep the game of football functioning. Playing football is like smoking or drinking, everybody knows it's bad for one's health but some do it anyway because they enjoy it.
I was at the game, the fact that Zach jogged off the field with his helmet on, in my opinion is a good sign. I highly doubt he plays this week. They aren't going to risk losing him for the year when the playoffs and a cross over all well within reach. I for one want Strevler go in. It's time for him to put up or shut up.
Collaros probably doesn't practice today. We'll find out tomorrow if he plays or is moved to IR. From a football point of view I want him to play. From an injury point of view I don't want him to play. Further to that I expect a smoke and mirror response by the team as to his real status.
Something like GTD before moving him to IR? It's a bit of a no win situation. Every time he plays and gets hit we'd wonder if he can get up.
Quote from: Jesse on September 10, 2025, 11:55:48 AMI feel this statement is MOS's version of transparency.
And when you listen to his comment that he refuses to share injury news for privacy reasons and he will not violate that right/trust. It's hard to legitimately disagree with him.
What's our reason? Whining that we want to know? I don't like it but I completely understand it.
I agree that it's private info; so just leave it at that...don't start adding in other statements...part of his response to a question about a history of injuries was to indicate if a player has two different types of physical injuries, that doesn't lead him to necessarily have a concern about that players long term health (paraphrasing)...then the reporter said but with Zach's history of concussions...to which MOS said we shouldn't speculate...then a couple of hours later Zach's listed as having a head injury...just say Zach's consulting with medical professionals..or something general...particularly when it comes to a person who has been documented to have had multiple serious concussions in the past...
That was the basis for my rant; not that we didn't get more transparency...I sincerely hope that it's not another concussion.
Quote from: Slingin Sammy on September 10, 2025, 04:34:32 PMI agree that it's private info; so just leave it at that...don't start adding in other statements...part of his response to a question about a history of injuries was to indicate if a player has two different types of physical injuries, that doesn't lead him to necessarily have a concern about that players long term health (paraphrasing)...then the reporter said but with Zach's history of concussions...to which MOS said we shouldn't speculate...then a couple of hours later Zach's listed as having a head injury...just say Zach's consulting with medical professionals..or something general...particularly when it comes to a person who has been documented to have had multiple serious concussions in the past...
That was the basis for my rant; not that we didn't get more transparency...I sincerely hope that it's not another concussion.
Bombers had announced that Case, Schmekel and then Schoen were placed on the 6 game IR and finished for the season. Their injuries were identified in a broad sense, like " ACL " etc.
I don't see how this is any different or why the secrecy.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 10, 2025, 03:11:42 PMPlaying football is like smoking and drinking, everybody knows it's bad for one's health but some do it anyway because they enjoy it.
Except this vice pays you $600k+ a year! If smokes and booze paid $600k a year to participate, even square me might take them up!
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 10, 2025, 09:29:47 PMBombers had announced that Case, Schmekel and then Schoen were placed on the 6 game IR and finished for the season. Their injuries were identified in a broad sense, like " ACL " etc.
I don't see how this is any different or why the secrecy.
Because being season-ended with a concussion is basically 100% voluntary. Even if you desperate want to voluntarily play with an achilles, you still can't.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 10, 2025, 10:25:22 PMExcept this vice pays you $600k+ a year! If smokes and booze paid $600k a year to participate, even square me might take them up!
Zach's decision is mostly about health and family but the approx. lure of half a mil will make people take risks. I am not really a risk taker with money (love my divy stocks) but do take risk doing sports like surfing, downhill skiing, quading and sledding. Sometimes fun to live on the edge.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 10, 2025, 10:26:51 PMBecause being season-ended with a concussion is basically 100% voluntary. Even if you desperate want to voluntarily play with an achilles, you still can't.
I don't think it's a voluntary issue for the player. The medical team would deem a player unfit to play. As you know a player has to agree to be placed on IR as well in theory. You think a player with an achilles injury gets to decline?
Collaros in 2019 spent most of the season on the IR in Regina before coming to Winnipeg.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 10, 2025, 11:51:32 PMI don't think it's a voluntary issue for the player. The medical team would deem a player unfit to play. As you know a player has to agree to be placed on IR as well in theory. You think a player with an achilles injury gets to decline?
Collaros in 2019 spent most of the season on the IR in Regina before coming to Winnipeg.
It
is voluntary for a player, because there is no objective test for concussion. It is diagnoses based on symptoms.
Docs ask Zach:
1. Are you seeing stars? no
2. Headaches? no
3. Vomiting/nausea? no
4. Trouble thinking/concentrating? no
5. Sensitivity to light & sound? no
The doc now has no choice but to say "cleared to play". Maybe the player really had all of those symptoms, but as long as he's had enough time to not show the effects outwardly (wobbly walking, wincing at the sun, etc), no one can prove he's lying.
As for all the time Zach spent on the sideline in SSK/TOR, IIRC both teams had quality (or better, at the time) QBs that could step in. Playing concussed Zach when you had a even better producing guy would have been counter-productive.
WFC in '25 doesn't have that luxury. No hope of making the cup, let alone winning it, without Zach.
I also want to add that I think Zach has gained some sort of superpower when it comes to concussions. They don't seem to affect him like they did in his middle career, and they seem to affect him less than any of the other oldsters (or Ray).
He rarely gets knocked out cold, like so many players do. I've never seen him (as a Bomber) do the Trevor zombie walk, or the Cornish 3-stooges Curly laying down running routine.
He takes the mini-concussions and does the lay-down/leave thing (which may be part of the secret), then is right as rain next week, or the week after.
Maybe his brain has found a defense or coping mechanism because it's seen so many. Maybe he'll make a great medical/football case study one day (hopefully in a positive way).
It's quite amazing, and we should all thank him for all he does and is doing for us, because it's all a giant roll of the dice. How can you not love the guy?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 11, 2025, 10:30:03 AMIt is voluntary for a player, because there is no objective test for concussion. It is diagnoses based on symptoms.
Docs ask Zach:
1. Are you seeing stars? no
2. Headaches? no
3. Vomiting/nausea? no
4. Trouble thinking/concentrating? no
5. Sensitivity to light & sound? no
The doc now has no choice but to say "cleared to play". Maybe the player really had all of those symptoms, but as long as he's had enough time to not show the effects outwardly (wobbly walking, wincing at the sun, etc), no one can prove he's lying.
As for all the time Zach spent on the sideline in SSK/TOR, IIRC both teams had quality (or better, at the time) QBs that could step in. Playing concussed Zach when you had a even better producing guy would have been counter-productive.
WFC in '25 doesn't have that luxury. No hope of making the cup, let alone winning it, without Zach.
There are obvious ways to beat the test, but there are tests.
You're asked to answer questions and perform tasks that are measured against a baseline that you perform before the season.
Through an examination, doctors can absolutely make the determination that you are exhibiting symptoms and remove you from the game. It happened to Trevor Harris this season and he was very vocal that it was not voluntary.
Collaros moved to 1 game IR. I'm surprised but we'll see if that is extended or not next week.
For those that say concussions are voluntary IR placement, no. Concussions are not something you can play through. Not just from a health standpoint, but you physically can't do most tasks when concussed, especially elite level athletic tasks.
You might be able to do some of your tasks, but there be things where you crash horribly, and that's when you are vulnerable to making things much, much worse.
If there is a doubt, sit it out.
Reavis fined for dirtiness.
https://3downnation.com/2025/09/11/this-some-bullsht-saskatchewan-roughriders-db-c-j-reavis-fined-for-high-hit-on-bombers-qb-zach-collaros/ (https://3downnation.com/2025/09/11/this-some-bullsht-saskatchewan-roughriders-db-c-j-reavis-fined-for-high-hit-on-bombers-qb-zach-collaros/)
Another fine coming up next week for being a mouthy ****.
"I got 350lb+ offensive lineman diving at my knees INTENTIONALLY after the play.. no flag or fine. But CFL wanna fine me a quarter of my game cheque cus a qb got hurt," Reavis wrote on X, tagging the CFLPA. "Do yall actually care about player safety or QB safety? This some ******** & y'all know dat."
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 11, 2025, 11:33:03 PMReavis fined for dirtiness.
https://3downnation.com/2025/09/11/this-some-bullsht-saskatchewan-roughriders-db-c-j-reavis-fined-for-high-hit-on-bombers-qb-zach-collaros/ (https://3downnation.com/2025/09/11/this-some-bullsht-saskatchewan-roughriders-db-c-j-reavis-fined-for-high-hit-on-bombers-qb-zach-collaros/)
Another fine coming up next week for being a mouthy ****.
"I got 350lb+ offensive lineman diving at my knees INTENTIONALLY after the play.. no flag or fine. But CFL wanna fine me a quarter of my game cheque cus a qb got hurt," Reavis wrote on X, tagging the CFLPA. "Do yall actually care about player safety or QB safety? This some ******** & y'all know dat."
He's not wrong
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 11, 2025, 10:30:03 AMIt is voluntary for a player, because there is no objective test for concussion. It is diagnoses based on symptoms.
Docs ask Zach:
1. Are you seeing stars? no
2. Headaches? no
3. Vomiting/nausea? no
4. Trouble thinking/concentrating? no
5. Sensitivity to light & sound? no
The doc now has no choice but to say "cleared to play". Maybe the player really had all of those symptoms, but as long as he's had enough time to not show the effects outwardly (wobbly walking, wincing at the sun, etc), no one can prove he's lying.
As for all the time Zach spent on the sideline in SSK/TOR, IIRC both teams had quality (or better, at the time) QBs that could step in. Playing concussed Zach when you had a even better producing guy would have been counter-productive.
WFC in '25 doesn't have that luxury. No hope of making the cup, let alone winning it, without Zach.
Thank god you are in the IT industry because you'd be a terrible health professional.
Sure Zach could in theory make all those claims that he has no symptoms. But in reality there are tests done that can show he has concussion symptoms and can't play.
Quote from: Jesse on September 11, 2025, 11:33:57 PMHe's not wrong
If Reavis wants to moan about a low hit on him, then he should state which play it was. I don't recall any bad hit on Reavis, but I'd be happy to look it up and give it a fair evaluation.
Sounds more like deflection to me.
Besides, I think everyone knows that QBs are "special" and nearly every other player is "expendable". (Well, maybe not top-5 RECs.) This shouldn't be news.
RBs take hard hits & punishment & post-whistle chicanery all the time, you don't see them whining.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 11, 2025, 05:05:54 PMFor those that say concussions are voluntary IR placement, no. Concussions are not something you can play through.
Micro-concussions may be easier.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 11, 2025, 05:05:54 PMIf there is a doubt, sit it out.
I totally agree, and that's why WFC
always yanks Zach when he's seeing stars. SSK let Trevor play through 3 nogging owies that one game, and the zombie-walk one wasn't even the last! But they got the hint real fast when he took that smaller 3rd one.
Quote from: Jesse on September 11, 2025, 10:55:11 AMThrough an examination, doctors can absolutely make the determination that you are exhibiting symptoms and remove you from the game. It happened to Trevor Harris this season and he was very vocal that it was not voluntary.
My take was that Mace yanked him to not risk his whole season, because he was getting beat up real bad that game. Do you have something that says it was the injury spotter or the SSK doc making the call?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 12, 2025, 06:08:33 AMMy take was that Mace yanked him to not risk his whole season, because he was getting beat up real bad that game. Do you have something that says it was the injury spotter or the SSK doc making the call?
Trevor Harris performed an interview where he expressed how angry he was at training staff for not allowing him to play a game.
Not being yanked during a game, being held out of a game entirely because he was deemed unfit during the week.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 11, 2025, 11:33:03 PMReavis fined for dirtiness.
https://3downnation.com/2025/09/11/this-some-bullsht-saskatchewan-roughriders-db-c-j-reavis-fined-for-high-hit-on-bombers-qb-zach-collaros/ (https://3downnation.com/2025/09/11/this-some-bullsht-saskatchewan-roughriders-db-c-j-reavis-fined-for-high-hit-on-bombers-qb-zach-collaros/)
Another fine coming up next week for being a mouthy ****.
"I got 350lb+ offensive lineman diving at my knees INTENTIONALLY after the play.. no flag or fine. But CFL wanna fine me a quarter of my game cheque cus a qb got hurt," Reavis wrote on X, tagging the CFLPA. "Do yall actually care about player safety or QB safety? This some ******** & y'all know dat."
Reavis took Collaros out of the game with an avoidable side effect of his tackle.
He tackled THAT way to ensure the tackle, for sure. He ducks his head either side, and Collaros has a chance of ducking out. Zach can't avoid the straight on hit. Reavis knew this, and made the concious decision to put his helmet in the path of Zach's helmet to make the maximum of the tackle opportunity.
Yes, the league is about player safety, which is why you got fined.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 12, 2025, 03:35:03 PMReavis took Collaros out of the game with an avoidable side effect of his tackle.
He tackled THAT way to ensure the tackle, for sure. He ducks his head either side, and Collaros has a chance of ducking out. Zach can't avoid the straight on hit. Reavis knew this, and made the concious decision to put his helmet in the path of Zach's helmet to make the maximum of the tackle opportunity.
Yes, the league is about player safety, which is why you got fined.
We're seriously saying that hitting the quarterback straight on is somehow dirty?
That's wild!
Dirty? No. Dirty would imply he meant to do it, and intent is difficult to prove.
Reckless? Yes. He made contact with Collaros' helmet. That's a penalty per the rulebook.
Blubbering on social media about a valid fine and then pretending to be be a victim here is a pretty bad look. Reavis seems pretty thin-skinned despite his on-field persona.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on September 12, 2025, 04:11:40 PMWe're seriously saying that hitting the quarterback straight on is somehow dirty?
That's wild!
No kidding. I didn't think it was a dirty hit. Yes there was contact with the head and by definition it's a penalty. I think when it comes to QB's it almost always results in a fine. It's an effort to make defensive players more aware of avoiding certain outcomes.
Players are getting fined every week for high hits or hits to the head. I think he may get another fine for public statement as well. I did notice he mentioned the level of the fine ( 1/4 game check ) which is below the maximum. The level of aggression is taken into account.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 12, 2025, 04:21:29 PMNo kidding. I didn't think it was a dirty hit. Yes there was contact with the head and by definition it's a penalty. I think when it comes to QB's it almost always results in a fine. It's an effort to make defensive players more aware of avoiding certain outcomes.
Players are getting fined every week for high hits or hits to the head. I think he may get another fine for public statement as well. I did notice he mentioned the level of the fine ( 1/4 game check ) which is below the maximum. The level of aggression is taken into account.
I think you're correct, the CFL is trying to send a message to defensive players to be aware of QB's health, they're the bread and butter of the league and without them the game suffers. People won't pay to watch Chris Streveler vs Jake Maier, the economic consequences are substantial.
Younger ran the "safe sacks" program in TC to emphasis the importance of treating QB's with kid gloves, unfortunately it's worked a little too well in the Bombers case!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 12, 2025, 04:48:36 PMI think you're correct, the CFL is trying to send a message to defensive players to be aware of QB's health, they're the bread and butter of the league and without them the game suffers. People won't pay to watch Chris Streveler vs Jake Maier, the economic consequences are substantial.
Younger ran the "safe sacks" program in TC to emphasis the importance of treating QB's with kid gloves, unfortunately it's worked a little too well in the Bombers case!
to football traditionalists this will sound bad, but they may need to look at a rule against hitting qbs with
excessive force. This year they already instituted a rule to protect receivers against hits where they are in a position they can't protect themselves. A qb is in the same position a lot.
Im not saying they shouldn't be hit, but theres no way in Zacs case that Reavis couldn't have let up and still be assured of the sack.
Its been obvious this year that the overall watchability and quality of the majority of games suffer when we are seeing backup qbs as well as putting their safety at risk
Apparently Reavis was fined earlier this season for hitting Rourke in the head. Maybe he's not dirty, just stupid.
Sure enough, week 7.
Saskatchewan defensive back C.J. Reavis has been fined for delivering a high hit to the head of BC quarterback Nathan Rourke.
Unfortunately Collaros has become somewhat of being at risk to even a lighter blow. It's the sum total of all the earlier hits.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 11, 2025, 11:33:03 PMReavis fined for dirtiness.
https://3downnation.com/2025/09/11/this-some-bullsht-saskatchewan-roughriders-db-c-j-reavis-fined-for-high-hit-on-bombers-qb-zach-collaros/ (https://3downnation.com/2025/09/11/this-some-bullsht-saskatchewan-roughriders-db-c-j-reavis-fined-for-high-hit-on-bombers-qb-zach-collaros/)
Another fine coming up next week for being a mouthy ****.
"I got 350lb+ offensive lineman diving at my knees INTENTIONALLY after the play.. no flag or fine. But CFL wanna fine me a quarter of my game cheque cus a qb got hurt," Reavis wrote on X, tagging the CFLPA. "Do yall actually care about player safety or QB safety? This some ******** & y'all know dat."
Classy. What is it about the Riders? Last season they completely blew apart Streveler's knee while he was standing in the pocket, before that it was Marino doing basically the same thing to Masoli while Rider nation cheered with glee. They are certainly a scumbag football team.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 12, 2025, 04:21:29 PMNo kidding. I didn't think it was a dirty hit. Yes there was contact with the head and by definition it's a penalty. I think when it comes to QB's it almost always results in a fine. It's an effort to make defensive players more aware of avoiding certain outcomes.
Players are getting fined every week for high hits or hits to the head. I think he may get another fine for public statement as well. I did notice he mentioned the level of the fine ( 1/4 game check ) which is below the maximum. The level of aggression is taken into account.
I forgot about this. I think it was said preseason that there would be a more strict expectation required.
Fair enough, I guess.
Just reported on the pregame show that Zach is in Hamilton wearing his football pants, t-shirt and is running around and helping Chase. Encouraging says Derek Taylor.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 12, 2025, 03:35:03 PMReavis took Collaros out of the game with an avoidable side effect of his tackle.
We haven't see that many full speed straight-on QB sacks this year. Many, many D players in that situation find a way to go to the side & grab/throw the QB, or slow up to do a wrap-up. "Wimpy" QBs like Zach will just turtle and take it, they never try to slip away like Rourke, VAJ or Crum.
Hitting Zach that way (even with no H2H) was fully intended to give him a huge whack and take him out. They know full well Zach's head will hit the turf on the way down and that's game over for Zach every time.
My point is, a D in this situation can do other things besides the hellacious hit, that still result in a guaranteed sack.
I wonder if the CFL considered the strength of the hit, not just the H2H part, when contemplating the fine.
Would be nice if they'd tell us, let the D's know exactly what they need to ease up on.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 13, 2025, 02:56:01 AMI wonder if the CFL considered the strength of the hit, not just the H2H part, when contemplating the fine.
Would be nice if they'd tell us, let the D's know exactly what they need to ease up on.
I think they have. It's the H2H.
Don't do it. Period. No excuses.