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haven't seen what he looks like in practice, out of shape? slow? out of position?

Quote from: The Zipp on August 20, 2025, 12:36:04 AMhaven't seen what he looks like in practice, out of shape? slow? out of position?

Media mentioned rust

There will no doubt be rust, no sense rushing him in only to see him get burned or injured, I think he sits this week out but if he shows very well in practice and isn't too stiff maybe he starts but I really doubt that happens

Plus vaval and lawson didnt look out of place last week, lets see how they improve with a game under their belt.

All depends on if we try to get Logan on instead of Vaval.  Which I'm pretty sure we're not doing.  We could do it, but it probably doesn't make sense this week.

Vaval/Lawson did well.  It will be nice to have a week where the secondary doesn't change!  I fear a bit they'll film-study Lawson to pick on, but I think he'll do ok.

Unless it's totally dire, WFC usually takes it slow.  He'd have to be flashing 100% in practice for them to put him in this week.

It may actually take 3-4 weeks to get him in.  And if Vav/Law do even better, we often stick with the "hot hand"...

He's had 2 days of practice. TWO! An NFL cut is different, they are fresh off a TC.  Sure, he says he's in shape but it's different when people are trying to hurt you over the course of a 60 minute game. I would say labor day but dress extra db's in case.

So much of our problems in the secondary have been lack of communication. I don't think the ideal is to send another guy out there who doesn't know the calls.

Probably not. Montreal isn't likely to throw for 400 yard with their quarterback situation and Lawson and Vaval looked okay enough last week.

Houston not dressed, prob make his debut vs the riders

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 20, 2025, 07:38:36 AMAll depends on if we try to get Logan on instead of Vaval.  Which I'm pretty sure we're not doing.  We could do it, but it probably doesn't make sense this week.

Vaval/Lawson did well.  It will be nice to have a week where the secondary doesn't change!  I fear a bit they'll film-study Lawson to pick on, but I think he'll do ok.

Unless it's totally dire, WFC usually takes it slow.  He'd have to be flashing 100% in practice for them to put him in this week.

It may actually take 3-4 weeks to get him in.  And if Vav/Law do even better, we often stick with the "hot hand"...

Hard to say  how well Lawson and Vaval did last week since half the game was against the Redblack # 2 QB. Defence gave up 400 yards and won by the skin of our teeth.

It was Vaval's 1st start so that's a really small sample. IIRC it was only game 2 for Lawson as a Bomber.

Sticking with a hot hand makes some sense but we're talking about a former Bomber and top CB.

This week we're playing against the Als # 4 QB so that's not a great test even if they do well. It may be misleading.

Anyone know the vet no cut date?  It must be close and any decisions made now may have to be endured till the end of the season.  Even if Dexter Lawson is displaced at CB I expect they'll keep him around on the PR till the end of the season as a reward for helping out when needed.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 20, 2025, 06:27:20 PMAnyone know the vet no cut date?  It must be close and any decisions made now may have to be endured till the end of the season.  Even if Dexter Lawson is displaced at CB I expect they'll keep him around on the PR till the end of the season as a reward for helping out when needed.

Pretty sure it came and went. That's why we released Benson.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 20, 2025, 06:27:20 PMAnyone know the vet no cut date?  It must be close and any decisions made now may have to be endured till the end of the season.  Even if Dexter Lawson is displaced at CB I expect they'll keep him around on the PR till the end of the season as a reward for helping out when needed.

As per Article 15 of the CBA, players of certain veteran status must be paid their full salary, pension, playoff and Grey Cup earnings if they are released after a certain point in the season.

Qualified as a Veteran of:    Entitled to 100% salary after:

Six years or more                 9th Regular Season game
Five years                            10th Regular Season game
Four years                           11th Regular Season game

Full salary would apply to game salary only, future timed bonus payments would not be included since they are most likely worded as a roster bonus (player receives bonus if he is on the roster/under contract at a specific time). Other bonus payments for starts, games played, etc. would have to be met to be received.

Players qualified as a veteran of one or more year who are released after the 14th game of the Regular Season are entitled to all medical benefits they were receiving prior to termination up to the day before training camp the next year.

A player is not considered released for these calculations until notice has been served and the waiver period has expired as defined in Article 14, Section 7 of the agreement.

Quote from: ModAdmin on August 20, 2025, 10:06:09 PMAs per Article 15 of the CBA, players of certain veteran status must be paid their full salary, pension, playoff and Grey Cup earnings if they are released after a certain point in the season.

Qualified as a Veteran of:    Entitled to 100% salary after:

Six years or more                 9th Regular Season game
Five years                            10th Regular Season game
Four years                           11th Regular Season game

Full salary would apply to game salary only, future timed bonus payments would not be included since they are most likely worded as a roster bonus (player receives bonus if he is on the roster/under contract at a specific time). Other bonus payments for starts, games played, etc. would have to be met to be received.

Players qualified as a veteran of one or more year who are released after the 14th game of the Regular Season are entitled to all medical benefits they were receiving prior to termination up to the day before training camp the next year.

A player is not considered released for these calculations until notice has been served and the waiver period has expired as defined in Article 14, Section 7 of the agreement.

So D. Lawson could be released outright or sent back to PR after this week if he loses the battle to start when Houston returns?

I'm not sure if they would 1 game him for an extended period after 3 games. It will be interesting to see how he compares against Vaval as starting CB's this week.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 20, 2025, 10:32:02 PMSo D. Lawson could be released outright or sent back to PR after this week if he loses the battle to start when Houston returns?

No way we cut DB Lawson, unless maybe if Parker is 100% tomorrow.  Even then, we're not having luck with DB injuries and problems this season, we need to keep some guys in the PR hopper.  We'll probably need them.

Plus, do we think Lawson is better than Vaval (as DB only)?  Not sure what the answer to that is.  Though Vaval may always win the tie breaker by being able to return.

Quote from: Jesse on August 20, 2025, 12:19:03 PMSo much of our problems in the secondary have been lack of communication. I don't think the ideal is to send another guy out there who doesn't know the calls.

But the idea is Houston does "know the calls".  Only 1 season removed from WFC, and Younger didn't reinvent the whole thing.  It's basically a Hall D scheme with Younger tweaks.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 21, 2025, 01:46:14 AMBut the idea is Houston does "know the calls".  Only 1 season removed from WFC, and Younger didn't reinvent the whole thing.  It's basically a Hall D scheme with Younger tweaks.

Agreed - if anyone can jump back in it would be Houston. 

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 21, 2025, 01:46:14 AMBut the idea is Houston does "know the calls".  Only 1 season removed from WFC, and Younger didn't reinvent the whole thing.  It's basically a Hall D scheme with Younger tweaks.

Sure, if I went back to a job I had two years ago, I could relearn the acronyms pretty quickly. But if someone yelled one at me from across a football field and I had to remember and respond in >5 seconds, I think I might make a few mistakes.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 21, 2025, 01:45:25 AMNo way we cut DB Lawson, unless maybe if Parker is 100% tomorrow.  Even then, we're not having luck with DB injuries and problems this season, we need to keep some guys in the PR hopper.  We'll probably need them.

Plus, do we think Lawson is better than Vaval (as DB only)?  Not sure what the answer to that is.  Though Vaval may always win the tie breaker by being able to return.

I think Lawson is a better CB than Vaval but that's what is being tested tomorrow. Am I right on that assessment? IDK. We won't be able to keep everyone on the AR when Houston returns. So the options range from 1 game IR ( which I doubt ), PR or released. This may need to be decided by next week if that is when Houston is added to AR.

We don't have a clear idea of how long Parker will be out but if he's going to be back in a week or 2 then we we have an issue.

There are only so many spots on the PR and I don't know he will have earned a seat on 1 game IR.

Quote from: Jesse on August 21, 2025, 02:37:26 AMSure, if I went back to a job I had two years ago, I could relearn the acronyms pretty quickly. But if someone yelled one at me from across a football field and I had to remember and respond in >5 seconds, I think I might make a few mistakes.

Houston, we're in man coverage and your guy is ( fill in the blank ). Houston we're in zone, you've got the deep stuff, or you've got the short stuff. Houston you're on a CB blitz.

The guy has played football at a high level and he's played with Nichols, Holm and Kramdi. I don't see a significant issue with learning curve.

Like I said, Lawson played after a week back and he wouldn't have seen the entire DC playbook in TC.

Rookie DB's are inserted into games across the CFL in very short time frames when injuries occur.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 21, 2025, 02:46:02 AMHouston, we're in man coverage and your guy is ( fill in the blank ). Houston we're in zone, you've got the deep stuff, or you've got the short stuff. Houston you're on a CB blitz.

The guy has played football at a high level and he's played with Nichols, Holm and Kramdi. I don't see a significant issue with learning curve.

Like I said, Lawson played after a week back and he wouldn't have seen the entire DC playbook in TC.

Rookie DB's are inserted into games across the CFL in very short time frames when injuries occur.

Well, geeze. No need for Jordan Younger, just need to flip a coin and say man or zone.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 21, 2025, 02:46:02 AMHouston, we're in man coverage and your guy is ( fill in the blank ). Houston we're in zone, you've got the deep stuff, or you've got the short stuff. Houston you're on a CB blitz.

I'm with ya, except we play mostly match, not man (as per Lapo and the other panel guys).  Match is inherently much more complex and smooth comms are imperative.  Handoffs are the norm.  That is how most teams are exploiting us: mixups on the handoffs.

But bonus: Houston also already played match coverage with us as recently as '23!  So it shouldn't be too hard...

Quote from: Jesse on August 21, 2025, 02:37:26 AMSure, if I went back to a job I had two years ago, I could relearn the acronyms pretty quickly. But if someone yelled one at me from across a football field and I had to remember and respond in >5 seconds, I think I might make a few mistakes.

Sure.  But there were lots of DBs on the couch the last 3 weeks since Parker got hurt and Bridges was cut... and we chose Houston.  10% of that is he's "best available player" (in our eyes), and 90% is he knows the book.

Let's say Moxey or similar was on the couch and available... we would have still signed Houston.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 21, 2025, 02:40:56 AMI think Lawson is a better CB than Vaval but that's what is being tested tomorrow. Am I right on that assessment? IDK. We won't be able to keep everyone on the AR when Houston returns. So the options range from 1 game IR ( which I doubt ), PR or released. This may need to be decided by next week if that is when Houston is added to AR.

We don't have a clear idea of how long Parker will be out but if he's going to be back in a week or 2 then we we have an issue.

There are only so many spots on the PR and I don't know he will have earned a seat on 1 game IR.

Seems pretty clear both Vaval and Lawson will be replaced as soon as Houston and Parker return to the lineup. They may both have bright futures with the team but it's quite unusual for the Bombers to play  first year rookie DB's and they're only starting because of injuries.  Vaval likely keeps an AR spot as DB and Payton backup till that pans out, while Lawson returns to the PR with Woodbey or Dandy likely being pushed out the door.

It might be recognized now though that Parker might be an on again off again IR thing.  As such you don't want to outright cut anyone who might step in should he go down again.  We need to make more use of the IR like everyone else.  (MTL just did it to hide their players because of Ento/etc returning.)

I agree that Lawson will have to flash much better than Vaval to have any hope of getting the AR spot, because Vaval is dual threat.  I found them both to be about equal at CB so far...

We signed Lucky Whitehead off the couch last year on July 8. His first game was Aug 2. Houston won't have to wait a month because we need him but it shows how cautious MOS can be. I think he's right. Houston getting hurt or burnt because he is not ready to play 60 minutes would be a preventable disaster.

Everyone else has 2 weeks of camp and 2 preseason games to get ready. I say again Houston has had just 2 practices since 2024.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 21, 2025, 03:26:42 AMIt might be recognized now though that Parker might be an on again off again IR thing.  As such you don't want to outright cut anyone who might step in should he go down again.  We need to make more use of the IR like everyone else.  (MTL just did it to hide their players because of Ento/etc returning.)

I agree that Lawson will have to flash much better than Vaval to have any hope of getting the AR spot, because Vaval is dual threat.  I found them both to be about equal at CB so far...

All of that is complicated a bit by the return of Logan. Griffin is our DI as a DB and he's versatile. Rosters are limited in size, ratio including the PR.

Keeping Lawson could be an issue at some point and I expect he could land on our PR. Once Houston and Parker are available.

If Houston plays next week we need to adjust the AR. Let's see how the CB's do tonight and further discuss next week.

I like Lawson so I'm not trying to get rid of him. The question is whether we're willing to put him on 1 game IR once Parker is healthy. In that sense I expect he gets moved to PR.

OTOH, I have no idea when Parker will be ready if at all. Going on 1 game IR instead of 6 game IR was a bit of a surprise. If he only sprained his knee he could return soon. I thought the same about Logan and he missed 9 games. So, we'll see.

Quote from: Jesse on August 21, 2025, 02:48:02 AMWell, geeze. No need for Jordan Younger, just need to flip a coin and say man or zone.

We may as well have flipped a coin the way we had so many broken coverages in the secondary.  Bonds was a 2nd year starter and Bridges was with the team all of 2024 and had been on the AR part of the time.

Obviously it's not that easy but if you read what I said, you should understand. Houston has played with Holm and Nichols at a high level. Younger didn't re-write the entire defensive playbook. Houston has also played against many receivers he will face and understands route trees and moves to expect from opponents.

How many reps do you think Vaval got with the 1st teams in practice or Lawson for that matter?  Lawson started 1 week after being signed.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 21, 2025, 01:52:32 PMWe may as well have flipped a coin the way we had so many broken coverages in the secondary.  Bonds was a 2nd year starter and Bridges was with the team all of 2024 and had been on the AR part of the time.

Obviously it's not that easy but if you read what I said, you should understand. Houston has played with Holm and Nichols at a high level. Younger didn't re-write the entire defensive playbook. Houston has also played against many receivers he will face and understands route trees and moves to expect from opponents.

How many reps do you think Vaval got with the 1st teams in practice or Lawson for that matter?  Lawson started 1 week after being signed.

Vaval and Lawson were here for the entirety of camp and pre-season. Lawson was playing indoor football during his time away from the Bombers. They both know the playbook and are in game shape. I think the better comparison is Lucky Whitehead. As I pointed out he didn't play for a month after signing.

I think they would have started him under different circumstances, but:

Vaval and Lawson looked okay last week

Vaval and Lawson aren't hurt

Montreal will probably play a simple passing game with their QB situation. Most QBs read inside out, and so nothing fancy is needed from the corners this week. They just need to be sound defensively and play a clean game.

Therefore, Houston sits, gets a week couple weeks of practice before he plays which is ideal for someone who has been sitting at home no matter how good of shape he's in. We also need to decide where to play him. Vaval looked better at the boundary than the field but it's only a one game sample. Lawson looked better than Vaval at the field but neither were great. Houston is more of a boundary corner I think.

I feel like Younger's play book is entirely different than Hall's. We use completely different formations and substitutions. I really don't think Houston has the familiarity that some of you think he does.

Just because we were forced into putting inexperienced players into roles due to injury doesn't mean we need to force more communication issues onto ourselves when Vaval/Lawson both played their roles fairly successfully last week.

Quote from: Jesse on August 21, 2025, 02:59:25 PMI feel like Younger's play book is entirely different than Hall's. We use completely different formations and substitutions. I really don't think Houston has the familiarity that some of you think he does.

Just because we were forced into putting inexperienced players into roles due to injury doesn't mean we need to force more communication issues onto ourselves when Vaval/Lawson both played their roles fairly successfully last week.

yup it's a different D and he needs time to get ready physically and mentally

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 21, 2025, 02:56:25 PMI think they would have started him under different circumstances, but:

Vaval and Lawson looked okay last week

Vaval and Lawson aren't hurt

Montreal will probably play a simple passing game with their QB situation. Most QBs read inside out, and so nothing fancy is needed from the corners this week. They just need to be sound defensively and play a clean game.

Therefore, Houston sits, gets a week couple weeks of practice before he plays which is ideal for someone who has been sitting at home no matter how good of shape he's in. We also need to decide where to play him. Vaval looked better at the boundary than the field but it's only a one game sample. Lawson looked better than Vaval at the field but neither were great. Houston is more of a boundary corner I think.

I don't think the Bomber brass would rush a rusty vet into a starting roll in many cases

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 20, 2025, 10:32:02 PMSo D. Lawson could be released outright or sent back to PR after this week if he loses the battle to start when Houston returns?

I'm not sure if they would 1 game him for an extended period after 3 games. It will be interesting to see how he compares against Vaval as starting CB's this week.

We are not cutting him imo

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 21, 2025, 02:46:02 AMHouston, we're in man coverage and your guy is ( fill in the blank ). Houston we're in zone, you've got the deep stuff, or you've got the short stuff. Houston you're on a CB blitz.

The guy has played football at a high level and he's played with Nichols, Holm and Kramdi. I don't see a significant issue with learning curve.

Like I said, Lawson played after a week back and he wouldn't have seen the entire DC playbook in TC.

Rookie DB's are inserted into games across the CFL in very short time frames when injuries occur.

Houston had been out of ball for a bit, rookie are generally coming from previously teams and have played more recently
Houston is a big asset that we need to ensure he can play all year not rushed for one game and Bomber brass agree

Lawson is definitely getting cut if everyone is healthy. Numbers game and he's the lowest in the totem pole (or highest if you're that guy who insists on cultural accuracy).

Quote from: Jesse on August 21, 2025, 03:17:44 PMLawson is definitely getting cut if everyone is healthy. Numbers game and he's the lowest in the totem pole (or highest if you're that guy who insists on cultural accuracy).

I think he will be on the PR, time will tell

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 21, 2025, 03:18:53 PMI think he will be on the PR, time will tell

I think PR as well but there is a chance they put him on the 1 game IR. Our use of the 1 game IR has been a little unusual. I didn't think they'd bump Woods or Peterson to the PR and would have put them on the 1 game IR instead.

The unknown is when Parker will return and that's the variable I'm struggling with at the moment. I'm not even sure it will clarify after this week between him and Vaval.

I don't see Vaval being bumped even if Logan excels and Lawson wins the open spot at CB.

There is always a " but  " though. Houston on means someone off the AR eventually. Assuming no new injuries, there are options that none of us want to see. Normally that would be a choice of one of the DI's and we know it can't be Castillo, so it falls to one of the other 3 or one of the current starting CB's ( Vaval or Lawson ).

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 21, 2025, 03:31:41 PMI think PR as well but there is a chance they put him on the 1 game IR. Our use of the 1 game IR has been a little unusual. I didn't think they'd bump Woods or Peterson to the PR and would have put them on the 1 game IR instead.

The unknown is when Parker will return and that's the variable I'm struggling with at the moment. I'm not even sure it will clarify after this week between him and Vaval.

I don't see Vaval being bumped even if Logan excels and Lawson wins the open spot at CB.

There is always a " but  " though. Houston on means someone off the AR eventually. Assuming no new injuries, there are options that none of us want to see. Normally that would be a choice of one of the DI's and we know it can't be Castillo, so it falls to one of the other 3 or one of the current starting CB's ( Vaval or Lawson ).

yes they will one game him for sure! turf toe LOL

If we get to the point where we have to make tough decisions about which DB to cut or can we demote a DB to the PR without them getting scooped, I'm very, very happy.

we have a nice long break between games - Thursday to Sunday so there will be some time for Houston to get into the defence playbook and get in shape.

Quote from: Jesse on August 21, 2025, 02:59:25 PMI feel like Younger's play book is entirely different than Hall's. We use completely different formations and substitutions. I really don't think Houston has the familiarity that some of you think he does.

But Hall is the one that brought in match coverage.  And Younger continued the match coverage.  Just listen to how much Lapo talks about it.

Most teams never play match, and certainly not most of the game like we do.  (Ya we still do a reasonable amount of zone, but almost no "man".)

What Younger seems to have done is tinker a lot with where the LBers are and what they are doing.  And, yes, mess with the sets of who is out there.  And I think we do a lot more 2 saftey looks than under Hall.

The DL is kind of all over the place.  Last season was a ton of 3 man rush.  This season is a ton of normal 4.  However, we do about the same amount of blitzing (not much) as Hall, which is a bit odd.

We also don't spend as much time on smoke & mirrors.  We usually bring what we show.  We don't often have LBers/DBs faking coming then dropping.  Now that's Thorpe's M.O.!  I think we've simplified everything except the match scheme -- which is extremely complex in and of itself.

Quote from: Jesse on August 21, 2025, 03:17:44 PMLawson is definitely getting cut if everyone is healthy. Numbers game and he's the lowest in the totem pole (or highest if you're that guy who insists on cultural accuracy).

He had a pretty rough game - Hollins had him beat all night.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on August 22, 2025, 01:49:31 PMHe had a pretty rough game - Hollins had him beat all night.

Yes he had a horrible game. Also noting some of us wondered why we didn't go after Hollins when he was released earlier. Maybe we did and he choose the Als. 

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 22, 2025, 08:08:30 AMBut Hall is the one that brought in match coverage.  And Younger continued the match coverage.  Just listen to how much Lapo talks about it.

Most teams never play match, and certainly not most of the game like we do.  (Ya we still do a reasonable amount of zone, but almost no "man".)

What Younger seems to have done is tinker a lot with where the LBers are and what they are doing.  And, yes, mess with the sets of who is out there.  And I think we do a lot more 2 saftey looks than under Hall.

The DL is kind of all over the place.  Last season was a ton of 3 man rush.  This season is a ton of normal 4.  However, we do about the same amount of blitzing (not much) as Hall, which is a bit odd.

We also don't spend as much time on smoke & mirrors.  We usually bring what we show.  We don't often have LBers/DBs faking coming then dropping.  Now that's Thorpe's M.O.!  I think we've simplified everything except the match scheme -- which is extremely complex in and of itself.

Sigh. Techno.

For those that aren't familiar, match coverage is a zone/man hybrid where defensive players have an area of the field (like zone) but when a receiver runs into it, they defend them like man.

Yes, Richie Hall's system ran lots of match. But ALL CFL teams run those concepts and match coverage in general has been strongly adopted by football defenses over the last 20 years in the NFL and NCAA (it works particularly well on the big CFL field where zones are bigger than is the US version of the game.)

Straight man concepts are getting called less and less and match/man/zone concepts, or half match half zone etc is the new normal and has been for at least a 10-15 years.

Hall isn't unusual here. He did modernize defense in Winnipeg though  (credit where it's due) but he was following trends that football everywhere was undergoing. Chris Jones was running match coverages since he broke in to the CFL as a coordinator in the early 2000s and by the time he was a head coach he was calling versions of it almost exclusively. For example.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 22, 2025, 02:36:36 PMSigh. Techno.

For those that aren't familiar, match coverage is a zone/man hybrid where defensive players have an area of the field (like zone) but when a receiver runs into it, they defend them like man.
[...]
Hall isn't unusual here. He did modernize defense in Winnipeg though  (credit where it's due) but he was following trends that football everywhere was undergoing. Chris Jones was running match coverages since he broke in to the CFL as a coordinator in the early 2000s and by the time he was a head coach he was calling versions of it almost exclusively. For example.

Sort of.  But we run more of a man match than a zone match IMHO.  There's a lot more hand offs in what we do, a lot less zone follow / switch.  And once matched handoffs are pretty unlikely (especially on crossers where depth doesn't change).

I fully agree that C.Jones was the one to first make it a big thing in the CFL.  It's partially why his Ds had such early success.  I never said Hall invented it.

I maintain that no one in the CFL currently uses it as much as we do, and quite like we do.  It's overly complex and if not perfect has many deficiencies.  That's partially why we are having so many busts this season (so far).  Teams are getting better at exploiting the weaknesses, and our talent/brains hasn't caught up with the demands yet.  (OTT was doing some great REC crossing/handoff schemes out wide that really picked on our imperfect match, basically guaranteeing a REC being open even though it was 2 on 2.)

It also could be why we seem to be running more zone than, say, last year.  In theory we should always get better as a season progresses, as the newer DBs get accustomed to the intricacies.  That's the good news.

I don't claim to be an expert, but I know the basics and have fun studying what our D is doing.

remember when we thought it was an option to play him immediately?? multiple games later - still not in the lineup

silly fans..

Quote from: The Zipp on August 30, 2025, 05:06:29 PMremember when we thought it was an option to play him immediately?? multiple games later - still not in the lineup

silly fans..

Who's "him"?  You talking about Dexter Lawson?  He's only a couple of games in and has looked better than Bridges, it even took Ty Ford 3-4 games to get the hang of it, playing CB is a scary job.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 30, 2025, 05:15:01 PMWho's "him"?  You talking about Dexter Lawson?  He's only a couple of games in and has looked better than Bridges, it even took Ty Ford 3-4 games to get the hang of it, playing CB is a scary job.

We're talking about Houston and this is the second game he's missed.

Zipp really pushing the word "multiple".

Houston still mite not be in game shape??

Quote from: Pigskin on August 30, 2025, 06:40:53 PMHouston still mite not be in game shape??

Maybe, Houston hasn't played in Younger's secondary before and he's a jumpy one, could be he hasn't picked it up quick enough and he's making poor reads in scrimmage.  Tough enough game for the Bombers to win, they can do without blown coverage leading to quick Rider TD's.

Quote from: Jesse on August 30, 2025, 06:29:18 PMWe're talking about Houston and this is the second game he's missed.

Zipp really pushing the word "multiple".

2 is multiple..

:)

just a bit ironic that some of us thought the dude could play after being here days and he still isn't in the lineup.

he may have been very slow after his prolonged hiatus.

Quote from: The Zipp on August 30, 2025, 07:46:23 PM2 is multiple..

:)

just a bit ironic that some of us thought the dude could play after being here days and he still isn't in the lineup.

he may have been very slow after his prolonged hiatus.

Don't know why the media can't describe what they observe at practice, if a player is struggling it would be good to know why.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 30, 2025, 09:20:50 PMDon't know why the media can't describe what they observe at practice, if a player is struggling it would be good to know why.

Derek Taylor did post that he took turns in both Lawson's and Vaval's spots.

https://x.com/DTonOB/status/1960754260645478520
https://x.com/DTonOB/status/1960754564245934175

I think MOS thought long and hard about playing him. My guess is Houston plays in the Banjo Bowl.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 30, 2025, 07:15:51 PMMaybe, Houston hasn't played in Younger's secondary before and he's a jumpy one, could be he hasn't picked it up quick enough and he's making poor reads in scrimmage.  Tough enough game for the Bombers to win, they can do without blown coverage leading to quick Rider TD's.

He did play under Younger

" Younger was named the defensive coordinator on January 8, 2024 after spending the previous five years as the club's defensive backs coach"

"Houston spent 2021-23 with the Blue Bombers, appearing in 30 games – including 26 starts "

Quote from: markf on August 30, 2025, 11:09:35 PMHe did play under Younger

" Younger was named the defensive coordinator on January 8, 2024 after spending the previous five years as the club's defensive backs coach"

"Houston spent 2021-23 with the Blue Bombers, appearing in 30 games – including 26 starts "

That was Richie Hall's secondary, Younger was his assistant but the Defence as a whole has become more complex in the last 2 years.  It was pretty rare to have busts in coverage under Hall, only seemed to happen when they had to adjust personnel for injury.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 31, 2025, 12:30:12 AMThat was Richie Hall's secondary, Younger was his assistant but the Defence as a whole has become more complex in the last 2 years.  It was pretty rare to have busts in coverage under Hall, only seemed to happen when they had to adjust personnel for injury.

Agree mostly but Hall did have him issues at times and did adjust his system to adapt to explosive plays.  Your last point is a good one.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 31, 2025, 12:30:12 AMThat was Richie Hall's secondary, Younger was his assistant but the Defence as a whole has become more complex in the last 2 years.

I dunno... In some ways Younger is much more KISS.  His DL schemes and stunts are usually plain vanilla, compared to Hall's.  Hall was the "smoke & mirrors" kind of like Thorpe is now: show X and bring whatever the opposite of X is.

He also drops LBers into the DB backfield way less often.

The only way Younger is more complex, IMHO, is slightly more complex DB schemes.  Especially with how he toys with the personnel in fine grained detailed based on down & distance.

What parts do you see as more complex?

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 30, 2025, 07:15:51 PMMaybe, Houston hasn't played in Younger's secondary before and he's a jumpy one, could be he hasn't picked it up quick enough and he's making poor reads in scrimmage

From memory, Houston was pretty balanced.  He wasn't a showboater always biting for the INT fake-out.  He didn't get burned too often after he was here a while.  He did his job very well and was pretty wicked on one-on-ones.

Some DBs are just about that INT stat and explosions behind them be darned.

Houston almost won the '23 GC for us, if his fingers had just been about 4" longer... Boy he was so sad after that TD.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 31, 2025, 05:12:14 AMI dunno... In some ways Younger is much more KISS.  His DL schemes and stunts are usually plain vanilla, compared to Hall's.  Hall was the "smoke & mirrors" kind of like Thorpe is now: show X and bring whatever the opposite of X is.

He also drops LBers into the DB backfield way less often.

The only way Younger is more complex, IMHO, is slightly more complex DB schemes.  Especially with how he toys with the personnel in fine grained detailed based on down & distance.

What parts do you see as more complex?

The jobs in the secondary have become more complex, not simply man to man or zone, but more combo and switching receivers in flight, which relies on experience and great communication. With the release of Bridges the endless stock of DB's familiar with the system has dried up, thus the painful process of introducing rookies to the system in season has led to some obvious mistakes. 

I have a feeling Lawson will play well today, he knows he's on the bubble and is going to be hyper-vigilant about not letting anyone sneak behind him.  If he does well he may live to fight another day, if not it could be the last time we see him on the field.

 

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 31, 2025, 05:17:15 AMFrom memory, Houston was pretty balanced.  He wasn't a showboater always biting for the INT fake-out.  He didn't get burned too often after he was here a while.  He did his job very well and was pretty wicked on one-on-ones.

Some DBs are just about that INT stat and explosions behind them be darned.

Houston almost won the '23 GC for us, if his fingers had just been about 4" longer... Boy he was so sad after that TD.

In his first stop Houston was often criticized for going for the interception too often, I can remember some huge passes given up because he tried to jump the ball and missed instead of going for the easy tackle.  If he plays a bit more conservatively he should do ok.

The moment Houston is physically ready to play, he's on the AR.

They do not pick him up if there is a question about his character or fitting in.  Hall, Younger, MOS and Walters were all involved in the decision, I have no doubt.

We know he has the skill set to play, it is only a matter of whether his mind and body are ready.

Might take longer than a handful practices to figure that out.

If he's not on the AR next week, it does not bode well for him.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 31, 2025, 05:06:24 PMIn his first stop Houston was often criticized for going for the interception too often, I can remember some huge passes given up because he tried to jump the ball and missed instead of going for the easy tackle.  If he plays a bit more conservatively he should do ok.

Ya, but my memory is telling me he tapered that off closer to the end of his time here?  He became more of a team guy than a "get the INT stat" guy?  I could be wrong.  I consider Ford more of a showboater than Houston was.  Am I remembering wrong?

Houston certainly wasn't a showboater INT machine in CGY!!

Or maybe it's just something that comes with the territory of being a corner!  :D

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 31, 2025, 05:00:09 PMThe jobs in the secondary have become more complex, not simply man to man or zone, but more combo and switching receivers in flight, which relies on experience and great communication. With the release of Bridges the endless stock of DB's familiar with the system has dried up, thus the painful process of introducing rookies to the system in season has led to some obvious mistakes. 

I have a feeling Lawson will play well today, he knows he's on the bubble and is going to be hyper-vigilant about not letting anyone sneak behind him.  If he does well he may live to fight another day, if not it could be the last time we see him on the field.

Ya, then we're seeing the same picture.  Younger seems more focused on the DB schemes than the front 7 stuff.  Strange, because wasn't Younger the DL coach and not the DB coach before?

Lawson: your prediction came true.  I don't think he screwed up much today, and they really weren't picking on him at all.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 31, 2025, 05:21:43 PMThe moment Houston is physically ready to play, he's on the AR.

They do not pick him up if there is a question about his character or fitting in.  Hall, Younger, MOS and Walters were all involved in the decision, I have no doubt.

There's no question of FIFO.  He's already earned that.

The delay is merely the "MOS way" and time to learn the Younger book.

My guess is we do see Houston in for BB, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's not.  And I wouldn't be too upset, either.  Both corners did well today, though it's like 200-yard-Harris was testing anybody much.  The one big failure was right in the middle!  And strangely enough a lot of the out routes had Nichols there, meaning they were probably bringing SBs inside out.

I find it weird Nichols was the main target tonight.  Is there something we don't know?  I don't think I saw even one pass to Holm's area.  I didn't see him all game.  Very bizarre.

Harris is smart, he ain't messing with Evan Holmes!! He's by far the best defensive player we have

Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 01, 2025, 03:59:00 AMYa, but my memory is telling me he tapered that off closer to the end of his time here?  He became more of a team guy than a "get the INT stat" guy?  I could be wrong.  I consider Ford more of a showboater than Houston was.  Am I remembering wrong?

Houston certainly wasn't a showboater INT machine in CGY!!

Or maybe it's just something that comes with the territory of being a corner!  :D

What I remember was lots of conversation over Houston putting personal stats over team goals. The reason being he wanted to get paid and interception stats is how a db does that. Well, he put up big numbers (7 int) and got paid (2 yr $275,000). In Calgary I thought he eased off and gambled less, not sure if he felt he didn't need to anymore because he had his big contract or he just matured and played smarter.

Still no Houston in the lineup...

Quote from: The Zipp on September 05, 2025, 02:27:34 PMStill no Houston in the lineup...

I'm a little disappointed; but to be clear, I'm disappointed that he hasn't prove himself to be an improvement over what we have to coaches.

Much like with Mitchell, it really seems like they didn't come in performing like we hoped/expected.

Quote from: Jesse on September 05, 2025, 11:05:31 PMMuch like with Mitchell, it really seems like they didn't come in performing like we hoped/expected.

It seems different than Mitchell. Mitchell was demoted on day 1 and didn't get back to first team for three months roughly. Houston has had reps with the first team on both corners last week and this week. Not sure what the issue is exactly though. I thought for sure this would be his week to play.

It could be the DB scheme is SO complex that Houston hasn't gotten it yet.

It could also be that there is no real DB panic anymore.  They did great vs Trevor last week.  The brain aspect might override the talent aspect until Houston is fully up to speed.

P.S. Did they just swap sides for Lawson/Vaval?  That's a bit odd?  Or maybe they are getting prepared for the Houston return.  Wasn't Houston boundary side before?  And if so, that would hint that Lawson will keep his starting spot whilst Vaval does return-only or goes PR?