Blue Bombers Forum

Streveler is not a starter or back up. We need a a decent backup. Or give Wilson a shot. Cause we're in trouble with 17. He not a passer he should be a running back. He has lost his speed , probably because of his injury. It is not his fault but he was never a starter. He has a great attitude and a team player but not a starter. I like him he is not a heir to Collaros. I know he helped us win a cup in 2019 , big heart played injured. I wish he would of stayed instead of going south. Good teams have a dependable backup QB.. my opinion  sorry I love the blue!!

Yeah he's a fan favourite but he did squat on offence. 49 yards passing in the 1st half. Ended up with 173 yards but 100 yards was hard earned YAC after short passes.

He just screams low IQ QB...seems to always panic and resort to the short stuff.

He's got happy feet and seemingly lacks confidence in making positive decisions.
Fan favorite indeed but can be so hard to watch

He is not a CFL QB. N
His passing motion is unorthodox he was a great runner. If he stayed in the CFL instead if going south he may have developed maybe. I can't believe he was on Arizona he was not very good. Like I said he had a big heart and awesome positive attitude. He has the makings of being a coach if he wants to. In my opinion.

Quote from: Austin85 on August 02, 2025, 04:16:47 AMHe is not a CFL QB. N
His passing motion is unorthodox he was a great runner. If he stayed in the CFL instead if going south he may have developed maybe. I can't believe he was on Arizona he was not very good. Like I said he had a big heart and awesome positive attitude. He has the makings of being a coach if he wants to. In my opinion.

A coach needs to be smart, strevy probably has the lowest football IQ for a Qb in the league

We need a future qb why did we let Dru Brown go?  I would of traded Collaros. We develop a qb and let him leave. Collaros has not played well in cup 22/23/24. His best days are done. I appreciate what he has done, God bless him. We may have had some growing pains with Dru Brown but he would of overcome them.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if we're starting Strev or Wilson. If Zach isn't in, we're toast.

Complain all you want about who is #2 or #3 or #4, it's irrelevant.

This is a winning business the CFL relies on attendance to help carry them. We do not have the big TV money like the NFL. We need to stay on top of it every year or do our best. All teams need to, I know but if we want to keep putting people in an our stadium let's keep giving them too notch talent.

Quote from: Austin85 on August 02, 2025, 04:24:16 AMWe need a future qb why did we let Dru Brown go?  I would of traded Collaros. We develop a qb and let him leave. Collaros has not played well in cup 22/23/24. His best days are done. I appreciate what he has done, God bless him. We may have had some growing pains with Dru Brown but he would of overcome them.

The same Dru Brown who leads the 2-6 Ottawa Redblacks who has also had concussion issues? Ok then. I'll take Zach.

Ok sure take Zach and all his picks

You realize Dru is also throwing a bunch of picks and is constantly injured, right?

Quote from: dd on August 02, 2025, 04:19:32 AMA coach needs to be smart, strevy probably has the lowest football IQ for a Qb in the league

I don't think Strev is really low IQ, he's a great athlete that probably moved to QB too late as a teen and missed out on a lot of the early brain development that happens naturally as a young QB.

Totally believe developing vision is something that can't be learned later on, no matter how long one studies they can't comprehend the fluctuating picture. Like a great artist or musician the creative skills that set one apart are developed at an early age and forged in fire.

Streveler was always a runner first and a Qb second. He cant run the same anymore.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 02, 2025, 04:46:50 AMI don't think Strev is really low IQ, he's a great athlete that probably moved to QB too late as a teen and missed out on a lot of the early brain development that happens naturally as a young QB.

Totally believe developing vision is something that can't be learned later on, no matter how long one studies they can't comprehend the fluctuating picture. Like a great artist or musician the creative skills that set one apart are developed at an early age and forged in fire.

Very interesting theory, I have no idea if there is any scientific evidence for it but it really is interesting.  I agree I don't think Strev is low IQ.

Streveler is the best we have by far.  He just wins.  Who do you want?  Fajardo?  A washed Collaros?  lol.  No thanks.

Quote from: Strevy on August 02, 2025, 05:56:47 AMStreveler is the best we have by far.  He just wins.  Who do you want?  Fajardo?  A washed Collaros?  lol.  No thanks.

You do a disservice to Zach Collaros.  Your post (and previous posts on Zach BTW) is nonsense.  Just saying.  And you don't know how Streveler stacks up with Wilson or Artopeus so best wait to see how they compare after they have played full games.

Quote from: Austin85 on August 02, 2025, 04:16:47 AMHe is not a CFL QB.

Right, he's an NFL one.  Down there, what, 4 seasons?  That's better than 99% of the CFL QBs who go south.  Better than Rourke!

(Not saying he's great, just making a point)

Quote from: dd on August 02, 2025, 04:19:32 AMA coach needs to be smart, strevy probably has the lowest football IQ for a Qb in the league

I'm not sure.  His Aww Shucks bumpkin routine may be misleading.  I seriously couldn't say if he was dumb or smart (yet), and I'm usually the first to jump to conclusions (I watch a lot of pressers).

For sure he's not a cerebral QB!  But many good QBs aren't (VAJ, Durant, etc).

Quote from: Jesse on August 02, 2025, 04:28:15 AMAt the end of the day, it doesn't matter if we're starting Strev or Wilson. If Zach isn't in, we're toast.

And yet:  Zach & Strev, 2 wins a piece.  Zach with more losses...

(Not saying you're wrong in general, but you're wrong at this moment!)

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 02, 2025, 08:42:59 AMAnd yet:  Zach & Strev, 2 wins a piece.  Zach with more losses...

(Not saying you're wrong in general, but you're wrong at this moment!)

I was speaking in a season long capacity; but sure, as long as Strev gets a 21 point cushion from D and ST, he can pull off a squeaker here and there.

Quote from: ModAdmin on August 02, 2025, 07:33:33 AMYou do a disservice to Zach Collaros.  Your post (and previous posts on Zach BTW) is nonsense.  Just saying.  And you don't know how Streveler stacks up with Wilson or Artopeus so best wait to see how they compare after they have played full games.

Streveler is ahead of them for a reason.  Unless you think our coaching staff is wrong?  Zach throws more picks than TD's and has the worst QB rating of all starters in the CFL.  He is not good enough anymore, it happens to all athletes at some point.  Nothing wrong with that.  Streveler is better now.  2-0.  And will only get better with first team reps.  He still needs to clean up
his game but that comes with playing. We should be celebrating we now have a chance!  Go Strevy Go!!!!

I agree. Strev for offensive player of the week

That performance reminded me of Mike Quinn throwing a pick 6 at the end of the game in 2006. The final nail in his football career.

Jeez you guys.

Streveler has the same number of wins as Collaros this year.

Wins are still what matters, right?

(I do agree that he's going to have a hard time beating the best teams playing like that but when your backup QB is 2-0 you send flowers and a thank you card.)

Hogan also needs to call two run plays at the end of the game instead of the throw into the end zone. Streveler has the everyone's back. Hogan needs to have his. Streveler played like he always does. And he won again.

On to next week.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 02, 2025, 01:39:15 PMJeez you guys.

Streveler has the same number of wins as Collaros this year.

Wins are still what matters, right?

(I do agree that he's going to have a hard time beating the best teams playing like that but when your backup QB is 2-0 you send flowers and a thank you card.)

Hogan also needs to call two run plays at the end of the game instead of the throw into the end zone. Streveler has the everyone's back. Hogan needs to have his. Streveler played like he always does. And he won again.

On to next week.

2 starts, two wins.  ZERO lossses.  Strevelers better. Not even close. Play calling sucks but I expect JJ will clean that up.  Hogan is too raw.

Some of his plays lastnight really left me wanting to bang my head. All he has is gusto. It works for small bits, can pump up the team and make them play better. But he's just not starter material.
He's an ideal shortyardage guy.

To watch that game and talk about Strev in a positive capacity is baffling to me. He had a rough night.

Quote from: Jesse on August 02, 2025, 01:54:28 PMTo watch that game and talk about Strev in a positive capacity is baffling to me. He had a rough night.

Every-time he threw the ball more than 10 yards I was holding my breath.

Quote from: ModAdmin on August 02, 2025, 07:33:33 AMYou do a disservice to Zach Collaros.  Your post (and previous posts on Zach BTW) is nonsense.  Just saying.  And you don't know how Streveler stacks up with Wilson or Artopeus so best wait to see how they compare after they have played full games.

Streveler isn't the long term answer, and he's limited as a QB, but the truth is so is Collaros in 2025.

Different reasons for the limitations but both are probably definite. Streveler is what he is. Zach is what he is now.

And again, I just bought myself a brand new Collaros jersey yesterday. He's the best QB we've had in 25 years and I'll wear that jersey like I do Stegall and Roberts and a few others. He deserves all the credit in the world for what he did.

We'll see if Collaros can eke out a good stretch in the back half of the season but I won't be surprised if he can't. The QB cliff is real and it comes at different ages for every one.

I would suggest that we watch the NFL Cuts for a young QB.

Quote from: Bomber Diehard on August 02, 2025, 02:26:40 PMI would suggest that we watch the NFL Cuts for a young QB.

We've got one in the pipeline. Taylor Elgersma. Canadian. Didn't play NCAA ball but the fact he was able to convince the Green Bay Packers he's worth a training camp spot is massive. There's a few organizations down south who absolutely know the position and Green Bay is one.

We just have to pray he crashes out this month.

All this talk on strev is mind blowing. Plain and simple, which is the streveller way, He was awful.

We should be talking about Vavol and his 2 TDs and the D line who knocked down about 8-10 passes (ie more than the secondary!!) and caused a fumble that lead to a TD.

Our D line played it's best game of the year and all we can talk about is streveller??! C mon give me a break. The guy doesn't make any other teams roster than ours and is a disaster in the pocket.

Thank you special teams and D line for an outstanding performances, one that we haven't seen in I don't know how long. It was the only reason we won last night.

I don't think anyone in an NFL camp currently will have any influence on our QB situation this year. Firstly, anyone cut at the end of August is much more likely to hang around down south hoping to get picked up on an NFL practice roster than come up here for 6 to 8 weeks for the pocket change they would make on our PR. They would make more in one week on an NFL PR than they would make on ours for the rest of the season.

Secondly, it's going to take time for any NFL QB to adjust and learn the CFL game. Even Elgersma if he came up would have to serve his time as a developmental QB for a couple of years.

And no CFL team is likely to give up any alternatives to us than are better than our current 2 QBs, with the possible exception of Fajardo, if/when elks are eliminated from playoffs.

Having said that, I would rather have Fajardo behind Collaros than Streveler.
Streveler is not very good, although he's probably not as bad as he looked last night because our current O-line and receivers are not very good.

Streveler career 25 / 26 TD to int. In seasons 2019 - 2025 14 / 21 TD to int. 95 / 147 completions. In 2025 5 / 6 TD to int ratio.

Those are not good numbers or improving trends for any QB. His running numbers are down to next to nothing and that used to be his biggest asset.

Some are trying to quantify that the Bombers are 2 - 0 when he's started this year.

Sure. Last night he was 0 / 3. A pick 6 and an int in the end zone.  Others have said we didn't win because of him we won in spite of him. 2 return TD's a fumble recovery TD and the DL knocking down 8 passes won the game. Some very good plays by Demski and Oliveria on offence WAS the offence.

Streveler himself looks frustrated as he can no longer outrun dlinemen The loss of footspeed is dramatic
That said hes in tough with this subpar receiving group and poor OC

Other than the extremely poor decision to throw into the endzone when they had a back breaking field goal pretty much in the bag, Streveler did Ok. He made some key throws downfield when he had to. It's just a different game with him at the helm. It becomes a power game and he's a big part of that. That's the style he's suited for. He does just enough throwing to keep the defence honest. I would agree he's not starter material. And there are a few backups that are better, but he's not a bad backup to have. He gives defences something they're not used to.

Strev is decent backup at a great price.  Not a great outing.
Zach is our guy and is great when healthy and our OL is at least average.
Dru Brown is good and I miss him but that was the right decision at the time and no need to rehash it.

Quote from: bomb squad on August 02, 2025, 07:18:02 PMOther than the extremely poor decision to throw into the endzone when they had a back breaking field goal pretty much in the bag, Streveler did Ok. He made some key throws downfield when he had to. It's just a different game with him at the helm. It becomes a power game and he's a big part of that. That's the style he's suited for. He does just enough throwing to keep the defence honest. I would agree he's not starter material. And there are a few backups that are better, but he's not a bad backup to have. He gives defences something they're not used to.

Fajardo in 10 x the Qb streveller is and arguably better than Collaros right now and he was a backup in Edmonton mind you his recent 2 hot games likely shifted him into the #1 spot in Edmonton and this off season I d go after him as a replacement for zc

Quote from: dd on August 03, 2025, 02:54:49 AMFajardo in 10 x the Qb Steelers and arguably better than Collaros right now and he was a backup in Edmonton mind you his recent 2 hot games likely shifted him into the #1 spot in Edmonton and this off season I d go after him as a replacement for zc

Yep, it's going to be hard for Ford to get his job back when Fajardo plays that well, which is exactly what many thought would happen when the Elks signed him. Don't know if they'll be able to keep them both next season but Fajardo is going to be asking for a lot more money if he's the starter.  Maybe Hervey will cut Ty Ford to pay for his raise!

Quote from: BomberFan73 on August 02, 2025, 01:54:22 PMSome of his plays lastnight really left me wanting to bang my head. All he has is gusto. It works for small bits, can pump up the team and make them play better. But he's just not starter material.
He's an ideal shortyardage guy.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 02, 2025, 02:21:30 PMDifferent reasons for the limitations but both are probably definite. Streveler is what he is.

SB&G gets it.  He is what he is what he's always been.  And as WPG fans we should all know this.

He's great SY with a real run and pass threat.

And he's a great budget backup who will keep you at .500.  How much money do the other teams tie up in their vet backup QB?  $150-$250k I would guess.  Not $100-ish.  Don't underestimate how much having Strev as the ultimate budget SY+backup QB means to our SMS.  He basically pays for the entire Vaughters acquisition.

Now, if the post-season is coming and Zach is going to be out, we need to real solution, for sure.  But that's when you hit the trades and couch sitters... just like we did in '19!

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 03, 2025, 03:40:50 AMSB&G gets it.  He is what he is what he's always been.  And as WPG fans we should all know this.

He's great SY with a real run and pass threat.

And he's a great budget backup who will keep you at .500.  How much money do the other teams tie up in their vet backup QB?  $150-$250k I would guess.  Not $100-ish.  Don't underestimate how much having Strev as the ultimate budget SY+backup QB means to our SMS.  He basically pays for the entire Vaughters acquisition.

Now, if the post-season is coming and Zach is going to be out, we need to real solution, for sure.  But that's when you hit the trades and couch sitters... just like we did in '19!

None of that is hardly a reason to keep him. It's a sub set of signing Collaros to a big raise in recent seasons. For every $$$$ spend somewhere, it's another $$$ not spent elsewhere.

Spending the SMS and getting the best bang for the buck is complicated and there is no perfect solution.

Choices are made in free agency. Some work out well and others don't.

We could have signed some players for the money spent on D.Mitchell that could be starting for us NOW. As an example M. Sayles as a starting CB. Or A. Green as a Canadian CB.

Management needs a crystal ball but there is a lot of guess work evaluating where and who fills a specific need.

Going into free agency we knew receiver was a high level of need.

I don't know that we had other # 2 QB's available to us or at what possible cost.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 03, 2025, 04:59:51 PMNone of that is hardly a reason to keep him. It's a sub set of signing Collaros to a big raise in recent seasons. For every $$$$ spend somewhere, it's another $$$ not spent elsewhere.

Spending the SMS and getting the best bang for the buck is complicated and there is no perfect solution.

Choices are made in free agency. Some work out well and others don't.

We could have signed some players for the money spent on D.Mitchell that could be starting for us NOW. As an example M. Sayles as a starting CB. Or A. Green as a Canadian CB.

Management needs a crystal ball but there is a lot of guess work evaluating where and who fills a specific need.

Going into free agency we knew receiver was a high level of need.

I don't know that we had other # 2 QB's available to us or at what possible cost.

They re-signed Strev this past off-season after a mediocre showing in 2024, so they knew what they were getting and their plan was to stand pat.  If they wanted a change and wanted to be aggressive they had the opportunity to pursue a number of CFL vets, including Fajardo and MBT.  Walters always uses the bounds of the SMS to temper aggressive pursuits which is reasonable behaviour.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 02, 2025, 08:41:49 AMFor sure he's not a cerebral QB!  But many good QBs aren't (VAJ, Durant, etc).

Terry Bradshaw. LOL! 

Quote from: dd on August 02, 2025, 03:35:35 PMAll this talk on strev is mind blowing. Plain and simple, which is the streveller way, He was awful.

We should be talking about Vavol and his 2 TDs and the D line who knocked down about 8-10 passes (ie more than the secondary!!) and caused a fumble that lead to a TD.

Our D line played it's best game of the year and all we can talk about is streveller??! C mon give me a break. The guy doesn't make any other teams roster than ours and is a disaster in the pocket.

Thank you special teams and D line for an outstanding performances, one that we haven't seen in I don't know how long. It was the only reason we won last night.

The title of this thread is "STREVELER". Where else would we talk about him. Sheesh!

Hate him all you want, he made some clutch throws and some gutsy runs in this game that absolutely helped us nail down the W. The guy is 100% viking warrior. Yes he goes berserker sometimes but I'd keep him over other QBs like MBT (puke), Masoli, etc.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 03, 2025, 05:18:15 PMThey re-signed Strev this past off-season after a mediocre showing in 2024, so they knew what they were getting and their plan was to stand pat.  If they wanted a change and wanted to be aggressive they had the opportunity to pursue a number of CFL vets, including Fajardo and MBT.  Walters always uses the bounds of the SMS to temper aggressive pursuits which is reasonable behaviour.

Yes and no. It doesn't explain D. Mitchell signed for a lot of money and sitting on the 1 game IR for 6 weeks. Ditto for J. Jones sitting for 6 weeks. Great to have depth but that was a significant trade off.

It seems some decisions about the starters and back ups were made before TC. We have a grand total of 1 rookie import on the AR and if Logan didn't get hurt we may not have seen Vaval yet.

Other than Cooley and our # 4 QB, we only have 2025 draft choices that are on the AR that are rookies.

Given the lacklustre state of our receiving corps I don't understand why we didn't go after Hollins. Heck Montreal just did!!you mean to tell me we don't need a burner with cfl experience in our lineup?!?! I am mystified by our personnel decisions

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 03, 2025, 05:56:57 PMYes and no. It doesn't explain D. Mitchell signed for a lot of money and sitting on the 1 game IR for 6 weeks. Ditto for J. Jones sitting for 6 weeks. Great to have depth but that was a significant trade off.

It seems some decisions about the starters and back ups were made before TC. We have a grand total of 1 rookie import on the AR and if Logan didn't get hurt we may not have seen Vaval yet.

Other than Cooley and our # 4 QB, we only have 2025 draft choices that are on the AR that are rookies.

I thought we were talking about Strev in this thread?  No one has a crystal ball, maybe Dillon Mitchell should explain why he's sitting on the PR mid-season? As for J. Jones, Kyrie has played well and remained healthy, he can take over his job when and if he falters.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 03, 2025, 08:01:44 PMI thought we were talking about Strev in this thread?  No one has a crystal ball, maybe Dillon Mitchell should explain why he's sitting on the PR mid-season? As for J. Jones, Kyrie has played well and remained healthy, he can take over his job when and if he falters.

We are but it was mentioned that Streveler was a good deal for the SMS and whether we shouldn't have stood pat at QB.

At the price we paid I believe he has already earned his salary and will continue to bring a great deal of value and a good emergency backup

If he could just clean up the turnovers that would be great

Throwing out any career stats on a player has little or no value.  Throwing our past success in the NFL, again, little to no value.

Sure, they suggest that the player has ability, but only current results tell us whether a player should be in the position they have been given.

I love Strevy, there is no doubt about his character or his desire/drive.  But when it comes to results...

I HATE that he occasionally hits a long pass or drops on in over Cam Judge.  Because that makes people forget somewhat about him fixating on an endzone throw and almost costing us the game.

If he stunk 70% of the time, we could move on.  But to me, it seems he's very good 15% of the time, m'eh 70%, and awful 15%.  And with the ST and D support "he" gets a win.  "He" does not deserve credit for the win, far from it.

Do I hate having him as a backup / SY guy?  Not at all, he brings a lot in that role, and is great value.

Do I hate having him start?  YES.  We KNOW what he brings as a starter, and while the team has wins with him starting, its not wins due to his play.  So saying he wins games is a total fallacy.

He is not our post Collaros starter, that has been established with his play over the years.

So, if Wilson is in our succession plan, lets see what we have in him.  If Chase is in that mix, lets let him get some reps, in practice and live fire.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 03, 2025, 10:08:08 PMThrowing out any career stats on a player has little or no value.  Throwing our past success in the NFL, again, little to no value.

Sure, they suggest that the player has ability, but only current results tell us whether a player should be in the position they have been given.

I love Strevy, there is no doubt about his character or his desire/drive.  But when it comes to results...

I HATE that he occasionally hits a long pass or drops on in over Cam Judge.  Because that makes people forget somewhat about him fixating on an endzone throw and almost costing us the game.

If he stunk 70% of the time, we could move on.  But to me, it seems he's very good 15% of the time, m'eh 70%, and awful 15%.  And with the ST and D support "he" gets a win.  "He" does not deserve credit for the win, far from it.

Do I hate having him as a backup / SY guy?  Not at all, he brings a lot in that role, and is great value.

Do I hate having him start?  YES.  We KNOW what he brings as a starter, and while the team has wins with him starting, its not wins due to his play.  So saying he wins games is a total fallacy.

He is not our post Collaros starter, that has been established with his play over the years.

So, if Wilson is in our succession plan, lets see what we have in him.  If Chase is in that mix, lets let him get some reps, in practice and live fire.

Agreed, the uncertainty around Zach's current abilities make me nervous about sticking with Strev as a backup, who if injuries dictate could be called upon IF the Bombers make the playoffs. I can accept they won't make any change this year and may not make the GC, but if they're both brought back next season as if "all's good", it will be a small indicator that O'Shea is willing to go down with the ship rather than alter course.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 03, 2025, 10:33:43 PMAgreed, the uncertainty around Zach's current abilities make me nervous about sticking with Strev as a backup, who if injuries dictate could be called upon IF the Bombers make the playoffs. I can accept they won't make any change this year and may not make the GC, but if they're both brought back next season as if "all's good", it will be a small indicator that O'Shea is willing to go down with the ship rather than alter course.

There have been times in the past 2 years where I've wondered if winning at all costs is really not his goal anymore, that winning the right way and treating his players in what he see's as the right way is even more important to him. He's won multiple cups as player and coach, and maybe now he puts more stock in doing things "the right way" according to him. I'm sure he still wants to win, but not in the cut throat way some coaches/GMs do (Wally Buono comes to mind). Could be wrong, just a thought I've had after seeing some of the decisions he's made.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 03, 2025, 10:08:08 PMThrowing out any career stats on a player has little or no value.  Throwing our past success in the NFL, again, little to no value.

Sure, they suggest that the player has ability, but only current results tell us whether a player should be in the position they have been given.

I love Strevy, there is no doubt about his character or his desire/drive.  But when it comes to results...

I HATE that he occasionally hits a long pass or drops on in over Cam Judge.  Because that makes people forget somewhat about him fixating on an endzone throw and almost costing us the game.

If he stunk 70% of the time, we could move on.  But to me, it seems he's very good 15% of the time, m'eh 70%, and awful 15%.  And with the ST and D support "he" gets a win.  "He" does not deserve credit for the win, far from it.

Do I hate having him as a backup / SY guy?  Not at all, he brings a lot in that role, and is great value.

Do I hate having him start?  YES.  We KNOW what he brings as a starter, and while the team has wins with him starting, its not wins due to his play.  So saying he wins games is a total fallacy.

He is not our post Collaros starter, that has been established with his play over the years.

So, if Wilson is in our succession plan, lets see what we have in him.  If Chase is in that mix, lets let him get some reps, in practice and live fire.

The succession plan doesn't matter when you're trying to win games in 2025. The coaches have deemed that Strev is better than Wilson right now and that's the only thing that matters.

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 03, 2025, 04:59:51 PMI don't know that we had other # 2 QB's available to us or at what possible cost.

Let's look at it this way.  Who are the top teams right now and their backups?

SSK Maier
HAM Powell
CGY nobody
MTL MBT

Maier & MBT cost decent coin ($150-200? more?).  Powell hasn't proven anything yet and is probably same $ as Strev.  Mr Nobody in CGY is ELC.

So 2 teams splurged for a "real" #2 (both of who are new to those teams).  The $ tied-up doesn't seem to have hurt SSK any.  But MTL is struggling, but probably more due to injury than QB $ tied up.

Powell is predicted by some (me) to be a future starter.  So he may do ok.  Or he may lose everything.

CGY will be lucky to win anything, and they have probably the best team before VAJ got hurt.

SSK is good enough that Maier might win up to .600 for them, should Trevor go down.

MBT should win .500 for MTL, but injuries are killing them.

Let's look at the "bad" teams:
BC: "expensive" QB2, sucking badly, doesn't support the case
TOR: "expensive" QB2, sucking badly, doesn't support the case
OTT: cheap QB2, sucking badly, supports the case
EDM: "expensive" QB2, sucking badly, doesn't support the case
* expensive means expensive for a #2

Bottom line: teams can tie up $800-$900k on QB 1 & 2 and still win, clearly.  But some teams are struggling even with an expensive #2.  So it looks like there is no correlation between "expensive" QB2 and sucking.

Us?  We have only ~$700k in our QB1&2.  How much is that savings allowing us to field better guys elsewhere, etc?  Or maybe it's a function of having the highest-paid-by-a-mile RB...

If we wanted a legit mercenary QB2 in FA, there will be guys available in FA26.  Wilson is great SY, so we could get a "legit backup" if we really wanted to.  But it'll cost us an extra $100k.  Who do we sacrifice because of that?

I still think we are just a "let's gamble" club when it comes to QB1 health.  And if poop happens we'll just try to solve it at that time with best-available options.  Just like 2019.

And what will a "good QB2" do for you in the post-season anyhow?  Arbuckle is the first example in a loooong time of a #2 actually winning something in the post-season.  Most other examples have the team losing baaaaadly (i.e. Dinwiddie).

Quote from: Jesse on August 03, 2025, 11:19:18 PMThe succession plan doesn't matter when you're trying to win games in 2025. The coaches have deemed that Strev is better than Wilson right now and that's the only thing that matters.

Right on.  Next season QB situation gets a side eye level of attention, at best.  We'll worry about that Nov 17.

And Mafia doesn't care if Strev can't start and win 9 games for us, because that's not the plan, and shouldn't come to pass.  If Zach is season-ended come trade deadline I fully expect us to make some splash trade and pull a '19.

Ford, Powell, Masoli could all be up for sale at the right price (i.e. an arm & leg) at the deadline, depending on team standings.  Ford or Powell might give us a better shot in the post-season than Strev.  Maybe.  Masoli would probably be on par with Strev.

Quote from: bunker on August 03, 2025, 11:14:41 PMThere have been times in the past 2 years where I've wondered if winning at all costs is really not his goal anymore, that winning the right way and treating his players in what he see's as the right way is even more important to him.

Ya, for sure.  But to the average player, would you rather have the cup and garbage man of HC?  Or one & done with the Nicest HC Ever?  Serious question.

Answer might depend on the age / marital status of the player...

Quote from: theaardvark on August 03, 2025, 10:08:08 PMI HATE that he occasionally hits a long pass or drops on in over Cam Judge.  Because that makes people forget somewhat about him fixating on an endzone throw and almost costing us the game.

LOL, Aards in the stands wishing bad things on Strev all game:  "Just botch it, throw another INT, do it now!  I want to be rid of you!"  "Argh, you made a great zone sit pass, curse you!"

Quote from: theaardvark on August 03, 2025, 10:08:08 PMIf he stunk 70% of the time, we could move on.  But to me, it seems he's very good 15% of the time, m'eh 70%, and awful 15%.  And with the ST and D support "he" gets a win.  "He" does not deserve credit for the win, far from it.

Have you seen a lot of Zach games in the last 3 seasons?  He "won" a whole lot of those games because of the D or ST too!

And who's to say Strev being the leader for his wins isn't what drove the D/ST to be better?  Who knows.

Ya, Zach is by far the better QB, and I want him starting every game, but let's not be hard on Strev as the relief pitcher.  Up until this very second he's been a very decent backup QB for us over the years, all things considered.

As for post-Zach starter, I'm 99% positive no one is thinking about Strev being that anymore: NFL didn't make him "better" in any way, shape or form.  No, the entire post-Zach plan is buy a top-3 in FA no matter the cost.  Preferably Alexander!

Quote from: Jesse on August 03, 2025, 11:19:18 PMThe succession plan doesn't matter when you're trying to win games in 2025. The coaches have deemed that Strev is better than Wilson right now and that's the only thing that matters.

With the lack of live fire reps for Wilson, I don't think that can be an objective assessment.

Streveler has really crapped the bed while the teams manages to win. Those W's on his record are NOT earned, they are inherited.  And every post game he keeps saying "I have to be better, I will learn from this film".  I don't think he can get better, or learn from film any more, he hasn't and its been how many years? 

I'm sure if we can win with Streveler, we have just as much chance of winning with Wilson, otherwise, what the heck is he still here for.

Poop or get off the pot.

We don't want to get to the GC and have to put Wilson in due to injury in the WDF (or EDF if we cross over).

Ask Dinwiddie how that works.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 04, 2025, 07:21:34 AMLet's look at it this way.  Who are the top teams right now and their backups?

SSK Maier
HAM Powell
CGY nobody
MTL MBT

Maier & MBT cost decent coin ($150-200? more?).  Powell hasn't proven anything yet and is probably same $ as Strev.  Mr Nobody in CGY is ELC.

So 2 teams splurged for a "real" #2 (both of who are new to those teams).  The $ tied-up doesn't seem to have hurt SSK any.  But MTL is struggling, but probably more due to injury than QB $ tied up.

Powell is predicted by some (me) to be a future starter.  So he may do ok.  Or he may lose everything.

CGY will be lucky to win anything, and they have probably the best team before VAJ got hurt.

SSK is good enough that Maier might win up to .600 for them, should Trevor go down.

MBT should win .500 for MTL, but injuries are killing them.

Let's look at the "bad" teams:
BC: "expensive" QB2, sucking badly, doesn't support the case
TOR: "expensive" QB2, sucking badly, doesn't support the case
OTT: cheap QB2, sucking badly, supports the case
EDM: "expensive" QB2, sucking badly, doesn't support the case
* expensive means expensive for a #2

Bottom line: teams can tie up $800-$900k on QB 1 & 2 and still win, clearly.  But some teams are struggling even with an expensive #2.  So it looks like there is no correlation between "expensive" QB2 and sucking.

Us?  We have only ~$700k in our QB1&2.  How much is that savings allowing us to field better guys elsewhere, etc?  Or maybe it's a function of having the highest-paid-by-a-mile RB...

If we wanted a legit mercenary QB2 in FA, there will be guys available in FA26.  Wilson is great SY, so we could get a "legit backup" if we really wanted to.  But it'll cost us an extra $100k.  Who do we sacrifice because of that?

I still think we are just a "let's gamble" club when it comes to QB1 health.  And if poop happens we'll just try to solve it at that time with best-available options.  Just like 2019.

And what will a "good QB2" do for you in the post-season anyhow?  Arbuckle is the first example in a loooong time of a #2 actually winning something in the post-season.  Most other examples have the team losing baaaaadly (i.e. Dinwiddie).

Cost is the LAST consideration I have for QB2.

They should either be a proven QB that is trying to get back to QB1 status, or a future QB1.  Case 1 costs $SMS, case 2 does not.

We have case 3, a never has been, never projected to be QB1, who has flashes of brilliance but is generally m'eh, who came very cheap.  And is a fan favourite (sells jerseys, puts butts in seats). 

I want a case 2, we had it in Dru Brown, but Collaros wasn't ready to go, so we lost him.  Every time we hear about Wilson, they mention he throws such a nice ball.  Two games ago, MOS said it, and then complimented Streveler, talking about his one good pass.

We need either a VERY short leash on Streveler, or to give Wilson a start.  We cannot rely on Vaval getting 2 TD's and Willie getting 4 pass knockdowns to be able to win a game any longer.

Teams can scheme against Streveler too, now, although its not hard.  With no film on Wilson, that will be much harder.

Edm almost won with Ford being benched.  They should have, but for a dropped ball.

I'd happily lose to Calgary if it mean we get a strong look at Wilson and what he can do with live reps against a quality team.  Tossing him in in garbage time after we go down bigly is not the answer.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 04, 2025, 07:32:11 AMRight on.  Next season QB situation gets a side eye level of attention, at best.  We'll worry about that Nov 17.

And Mafia doesn't care if Strev can't start and win 9 games for us, because that's not the plan, and shouldn't come to pass.  If Zach is season-ended come trade deadline I fully expect us to make some splash trade and pull a '19.

Ford, Powell, Masoli could all be up for sale at the right price (i.e. an arm & leg) at the deadline, depending on team standings.  Ford or Powell might give us a better shot in the post-season than Strev.  Maybe.  Masoli would probably be on par with Strev.

With BLM's return to success I expect he will continue his career a few more years than he originally anticipated much to the chagrin of young backup Taylor Powell.  I know the Ti-Cats will do everything they can to retain him but I can't see him being happy in that situation, Bombers should do everything in their power working with Goveia to ensure he lands in their lap, let Ted take whoever he wants other than Brady.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 04, 2025, 05:39:10 PMWith BLM's return to success I expect he will continue his career a few more years than he originally anticipated much to the chagrin of young backup Taylor Powell.  I know the Ti-Cats will do everything they can to retain him but I can't see him being happy in that situation, Bombers should do everything in their power working with Goveia to ensure he lands in their lap, let Ted take whoever he wants other than Brady.

Streveler for Powell?

DEAL!

Quote from: theaardvark on August 04, 2025, 05:22:30 PMCost is the LAST consideration I have for QB2.

They should either be a proven QB that is trying to get back to QB1 status, or a future QB1.  Case 1 costs $SMS, case 2 does not.

We have case 3, a never has been, never projected to be QB1, who has flashes of brilliance but is generally m'eh, who came very cheap.  And is a fan favourite (sells jerseys, puts butts in seats). 

I want a case 2, we had it in Dru Brown, but Collaros wasn't ready to go, so we lost him.  Every time we hear about Wilson, they mention he throws such a nice ball.  Two games ago, MOS said it, and then complimented Streveler, talking about his one good pass.

We need either a VERY short leash on Streveler, or to give Wilson a start.  We cannot rely on Vaval getting 2 TD's and Willie getting 4 pass knockdowns to be able to win a game any longer.

Teams can scheme against Streveler too, now, although its not hard.  With no film on Wilson, that will be much harder.

Edm almost won with Ford being benched.  They should have, but for a dropped ball.

I'd happily lose to Calgary if it mean we get a strong look at Wilson and what he can do with live reps against a quality team.  Tossing him in in garbage time after we go down bigly is not the answer.

There will be no short leash with Strev imo.  He can win now and that's why he is in.  I am high on Wilson but we got time to develop him.  I would like to see him get reps too but our club doesn't really do that.  We play our starters late into games even when up 3 scores.

Tell me more about Powell kinda forgot about him.

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 04, 2025, 09:02:28 PMThere will be no short leash with Strev imo. He can win now and that's why he is in.  I am high on Wilson but we got time to develop him.  I would like to see him get reps too but our club doesn't really do that.  We play our starters late into games even when up 3 scores.

Tell me more about Powell kinda forgot about him.

That is a generous assessment of is play.

It is more of a "He plays just not bad enough to lose"

I loove Streveler, always have, he's a character and has his strengths when used appropriately.  2nd and short, step forward and then drop back and pass, its a free play, go for it.  Make a SY first down and stay in with tempo against their jumbo and make a pass, great!  But those are the ONLY times I want to see him throw the ball. 

Sorry, but he still can't read a D, and fixates too much on his first read.  I think the only reason he doesn't get picked more is because his throws often don't get to the spot he's throwing too.

Some say he has goofy throwing mechanics, but that is not the reason to curtail his throwing.  The fact that his throws are only occasionally good is.  And like a blind squirrel, he's going to find a nut occasionally.

You can't develop a QB on the sidelines.  We saw Dru when Zach went down, and that meant he got picked up by Ott as a starter. 

We need to get Wilson into live fire and either develop him, or move on.  With Zach practicing now, the next time ZC8 comes out for any reason, Wilson needs to go in. 

Quote from: theaardvark on August 04, 2025, 09:17:40 PMThat is a generous assessment of is play.

It is more of a "He plays just not bad enough to lose"

I loove Streveler, always have, he's a character and has his strengths when used appropriately.  2nd and short, step forward and then drop back and pass, its a free play, go for it.  Make a SY first down and stay in with tempo against their jumbo and make a pass, great!  But those are the ONLY times I want to see him throw the ball. 

Sorry, but he still can't read a D, and fixates too much on his first read.  I think the only reason he doesn't get picked more is because his throws often don't get to the spot he's throwing too.

Some say he has goofy throwing mechanics, but that is not the reason to curtail his throwing.  The fact that his throws are only occasionally good is.  And like a blind squirrel, he's going to find a nut occasionally.

You can't develop a QB on the sidelines.  We saw Dru when Zach went down, and that meant he got picked up by Ott as a starter. 

We need to get Wilson into live fire and either develop him, or move on.  With Zach practicing now, the next time ZC8 comes out for any reason, Wilson needs to go in. 

We ain't moving on from Wilson and we ain't going to drop Strev as our #2.  Kinda like we were not going to sign Brown.  There are ideal outcomes and then their is reality.  Strev is what he is, your analysis isn't wrong but perhaps a little harsh.  Helps us win as needed.  His medium length passes are slightly improved this year.  I want Wilson to play as well, never know what will happen later in the season but he will wait his turn and slowly develop the best he can at practice.  Yes he needs reps and I want him to get them, will it happen, 10% chance imo

Disagree that Wilson goes in, he goes in if both are hurt, garbage time (maybe) or Strev throws 3 or 4 ducks.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 04, 2025, 09:17:40 PMThat is a generous assessment of is play.

It is more of a "He plays just not bad enough to lose"

I loove Streveler, always have, he's a character and has his strengths when used appropriately.  2nd and short, step forward and then drop back and pass, its a free play, go for it.  Make a SY first down and stay in with tempo against their jumbo and make a pass, great!  But those are the ONLY times I want to see him throw the ball. 

Sorry, but he still can't read a D, and fixates too much on his first read.  I think the only reason he doesn't get picked more is because his throws often don't get to the spot he's throwing too.

Some say he has goofy throwing mechanics, but that is not the reason to curtail his throwing.  The fact that his throws are only occasionally good is.  And like a blind squirrel, he's going to find a nut occasionally.

You can't develop a QB on the sidelines.  We saw Dru when Zach went down, and that meant he got picked up by Ott as a starter. 

We need to get Wilson into live fire and either develop him, or move on.  With Zach practicing now, the next time ZC8 comes out for any reason, Wilson needs to go in. 

Totally agree with your assessment, Strev is not the answer at #2. He did all he could to lose the game for us, despite outstanding ST and D TD's. Seen enough, move on, but MOS won't, he'll stick with him, hopefully, we don't get to see him play again. Agree also on Wilson, let's see what he can do if we're pressed into the situation

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 04, 2025, 11:53:07 PMWe ain't moving on from Wilson and we ain't going to drop Strev as our #2.  Kinda like we were not going to sign Brown.  There are ideal outcomes and then their is reality.  Strev is what he is, your analysis isn't wrong but perhaps a little harsh.  Helps us win as needed.  His medium length passes are slightly improved this year.  I want Wilson to play as well, never know what will happen later in the season but he will wait his turn and slowly develop the best he can at practice.  Yes he needs reps and I want him to get them, will it happen, 10% chance imo

Disagree that Wilson goes in, he goes in if both are hurt, garbage time (maybe) or Strev throws 3 or 4 ducks.

It shouldn't be "or Strev throws 3 or 4 ducks", he already has, repeatedly.

If the D and ST hadn't scored more than half the points, we lose that game embarrassingly. 

Streveler is on this team for his contract, if he is healthy, he's on the sidelines.  I accept that.  And he can be effective in the role he is qualified to play.  Which is NOT #1 play caller.

But like Ford in Edm, you need to adjust the hierarchy of the QB room based on performance.  Wilson needs to move ahead of Streveler. #1 if ZC8 is on the IR.  #2 if Zach plays.

If we lose a game with CS17 under centre, its our own fault.  And too late.

I'm not a huge Streveler fan. Love his heart, but he does not have the skill set to run an offense effectively.

However, I'm not convinced Wilson would be any better, in fact I suspect he would be worse.

Zach better get healthy and stay healthy.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 04, 2025, 05:22:30 PMThey should either be a proven QB that is trying to get back to QB1 status, or a future QB1.  Case 1 costs $SMS, case 2 does not.

I want a case 2, we had it in Dru Brown

Ya, so does every team.  A future star who is on ELC.  Duh.

But those guys only roll around once every season or so!  Who fit that bill at one time?  Rourke in BC, Dru in WPG, Kelly in TOR, Alexander in MTL.  That's the only ones in 5+ seasons.

The vast majority are Dom Davis or Caleb Evans.

So, unlikely, and we certainly can't count on it.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 04, 2025, 05:22:30 PMWe need either a VERY short leash on Streveler, or to give Wilson a start.

And when Wilson plays like that clown CGY started last week??  What then?

Wilson had his big chance to shine and be the next big thing when he had those 2 series in the GC.  Blew 2 TD pass attempts, at least one of which would have been a TD if he had put more air on it.  He does that, he likely stays in and we may win that cup.

I'd rather roll with .500-guaranteed Strev if no Zach.  Wilson will just have to keep dev'ing, and he may never be anything other than a SYer.

OC is saying that third INT was underthrown. O'shea liked the play call, it was just executed incorrectly.

https://3downnation.com/2025/08/04/winnipeg-oc-jason-hogan-defends-play-call-blames-misplaced-throw-for-late-game-interception/

Quote from: peg_city on August 05, 2025, 02:26:51 PMOC is saying that third INT was underthrown. O'shea liked the play call, it was just executed incorrectly.

https://3downnation.com/2025/08/04/winnipeg-oc-jason-hogan-defends-play-call-blames-misplaced-throw-for-late-game-interception/

yup - many on here wanted to absolve Strev of that mistake but MOS and Hogan are standing by the call and putting the blame squarely on the QB.  Personally I think it was a bad play call AND terrible execution by the QB.  Ultimately the players are the ones on the field and Strev could have thrown that ball away had he had the pocket presence to realize the receiver was covered.

Coaches have spoken - its on the QB
QB has spoken - it was his mistake

Quote from: The Zipp on August 05, 2025, 02:41:01 PMyup - many on here wanted to absolve Strev of that mistake but MOS and Hogan are standing by the call and putting the blame squarely on the QB.  Personally I think it was a bad play call AND terrible execution by the QB.  Ultimately the players are the ones on the field and Strev could have thrown that ball away had he had the pocket presence to realize the receiver was covered.

Coaches have spoken - its on the QB
QB has spoken - it was his mistake

Coach can shift the blame all he wants, it was a dumb and unnecessary call. It was all risk with no benefit.

Hogan appears to be very defensive rather than owning up to his mistakes.
Earlier when asked about the offense numbers leading up to the game his comment was that they were putting up the yards just needed to finish, rather than admitting they had work to do.
(when many of those yards were gained after the game was decided and defenses were in prevent mode)
Re this call He should have just admitted that it wasn't a great call and he'll learn from it.

The problem is really having a 5'9" receiver go for a jump ball with a 6' defensive back.

If the iso was with wheatfall, this would have been more acceptable.

Quote from: peg_city on August 05, 2025, 04:19:32 PMThe problem is really having a 5'9" receiver go for a jump ball with a 6' defensive back.

If the iso was with wheatfall, this would have been more acceptable.

The problem was ball placement. Streveler has to throw a corner to the pylon in that case or he needs to read it and eat it after the defender didn't bite on the pump.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 05, 2025, 08:34:55 AMAnd when Wilson plays like that clown CGY started last week??  What then?

Wilson had his big chance to shine and be the next big thing when he had those 2 series in the GC.  Blew 2 TD pass attempts, at least one of which would have been a TD if he had put more air on it.  He does that, he likely stays in and we may win that cup.

I'd rather roll with .500-guaranteed Strev if no Zach.  Wilson will just have to keep dev'ing, and he may never be anything other than a SYer.

I'm happy either way, he stinks like Walker did in CGY, or he dominates like Dru, Powell,Alexander have done recently.  Or something in between.

He's Schrodinger's QB right now.  Until we observe him he's both a bum and the next Cavillo.

We don't need to observe Streveler anymore, we KNOW exactly what he brings, which is barely enough to win when the D/ST score 21 points.

I don't think we can rely on the D and ST to do that in CGY, so lets roll the dice with the other variable.  If Zach can't go, or comes out early.

Quote from: peg_city on August 05, 2025, 02:26:51 PMOC is saying that third INT was underthrown. O'shea liked the play call, it was just executed incorrectly.

https://3downnation.com/2025/08/04/winnipeg-oc-jason-hogan-defends-play-call-blames-misplaced-throw-for-late-game-interception/

The play call may have been sound if Zach is the QB.  But they KNEW Streveler was in, and how he would execute that play.  He got fixated, got pressured, and tossed a duck.  Was ANYONE surprised at the result? 

The proper play is hand to BO20, and take it up the gut, until you are 3rd down, and then kick the FG to make it 2 scores.  No need to be fancy, especially with a QB that cannot handle fancy.

Streveler says he has to learn from this, but its the coaches that have a lesson here. 

I'm not used to seeing MOS say that his QB didn't execute, in this case, he's tossing Streveler under the bus over Hogan.  Which is an interesting development.

Can either express trust in Streveler going forward?  Is this the play that flips the QB chart?

Quote from: theaardvark on August 05, 2025, 04:37:58 PMThe play call may have been sound if Zach is the QB.  But they KNEW Streveler was in, and how he would execute that play.  He got fixated, got pressured, and tossed a duck.  Was ANYONE surprised at the result? 

The proper play is hand to BO20, and take it up the gut, until you are 3rd down, and then kick the FG to make it 2 scores.  No need to be fancy, especially with a QB that cannot handle fancy.

Streveler says he has to learn from this, but its the coaches that have a lesson here. 

I'm not used to seeing MOS say that his QB didn't execute, in this case, he's tossing Streveler under the bus over Hogan.  Which is an interesting development.

Can either express trust in Streveler going forward?  Is this the play that flips the QB chart?

I have no problem with them taking a shot on first down, good practice, stay calm.  That being said it has to be a pass that can do no harm if missed, not a jump ball situation.  A pass to the edges of the endzone that goes out of bounds if not caught is the preferable option.

It's a better play call with a better qb, but still not the right play call. Run it twice. Kick the field goal. Sometimes the score and the game clock dictate the play call. This was one of those times. Otherwise, it's just overthinking it.

Quote from: bomb squad on August 05, 2025, 05:32:58 PMIt's a better play call with a better qb, but still not the right play call. Run it twice. Kick the field goal. Sometimes the score and the game clock dictate the play call. This was one of those times.

Guessing that the thought pattern was "They think we will run twice and kick the FG, so lets change that up".

The question that begs asking is, was a FG score in any doubt?  Did scoring a TD make a difference over a FG?  As well as burning clock? And even if its just incomplete and not INT'd, you stop the clock.

Score a TD there and yes, its a 2 TD game.  But you leave 3 min on the clock.  2 plays takes you to 2 minutes, and still they need 2 scores. And there is still the opportunity to score a TD or get a 1st down and burn another minute off the clock.

Yes, the call had merit, it was unexpected.

But considering the game situation, the QB involved, the Rec/DB matchup, it was putting Streveler into a bad spot, with an opportunity to fail big.

Would it have been a huge confidence boost had he made the throw?  Definitely. But was it worth the risk with all that could go bad?  Nope.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 05, 2025, 08:34:55 AMAnd when Wilson plays like that clown CGY started last week??  What then?

Wilson had his big chance to shine and be the next big thing when he had those 2 series in the GC.  Blew 2 TD pass attempts, at least one of which would have been a TD if he had put more air on it.  He does that, he likely stays in and we may win that cup.

I'd rather roll with .500-guaranteed Strev if no Zach.  Wilson will just have to keep dev'ing, and he may never be anything other than a SYer.

I don't believe in  calling players names on here.   He had a tough outing but give him a break.  He also showed some skills.  Only way to learn in this league is by your mistakes.  They don't all come out slinging like Bo or Alexander did.

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 05, 2025, 09:59:27 PMI don't believe in  calling players names on here.   He had a tough outing but give him a break.  He also showed some skills.  Only way to learn in this league is by your mistakes.  They don't all come out slinging like Bo or Alexander did.

No, but those who continue to be given the opportunity to produce and continue to make rookie mistakes, see their opportunities cease and teams move on from them. Strev has reached that point in his career, enough of the mistakes, time to play real football

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 05, 2025, 08:34:55 AMAnd when Wilson plays like that clown CGY started last week??  What then?

Wilson had his big chance to shine and be the next big thing when he had those 2 series in the GC.  Blew 2 TD pass attempts, at least one of which would have been a TD if he had put more air on it.  He does that, he likely stays in and we may win that cup.

I'd rather roll with .500-guaranteed Strev if no Zach.  Wilson will just have to keep dev'ing, and he may never be anything other than a SYer.

This makes no sense, they gave Wilson basically no reps (1 pass attempt in the whole year) Then you put him in thar situation? Talk about setting him up for failure.
Since they decided to keep him they need to put in a pkg to get game experience before we write him off

Quote from: Pete on August 05, 2025, 11:34:30 PMThis makes no sense, they gave Wilson basically no reps (1 pass attempt in the whole year) Then you put him in thar situation? Talk about setting him up for failure.
Since they decided to keep him they need to put in a pkg to get game experience before we write him off

At no point do I want a package for the person deemed to be the 3rd best QB on the roster.

What scary is when I think about the history of Blue Bomber back up QBs since 2000, Streveler is one of the better ones. Probably in the top 10 QBs since 2000.

Collaros
Khari
Glenn
Nichols
Willy
Pierce
Brown
Spergon Wynn
Steven Jyles

And whoever else I'm missing.

Quote from: peg_city on August 06, 2025, 12:15:39 AMWhat scary is when I think about the history of Blue Bomber back up QBs since 2000, Streveler is one of the better ones. Probably in the top 10 QBs since 2000.

Collaros
Khari
Glenn
Nichols
Willy
Pierce
Brown
Spergon Wynn
Steven Jyles

And whoever else I'm missing.

we be had about 20 QBs since 2000 and I would put strev in the middle of the road leaning towards bottom 10 of that group

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 05, 2025, 04:22:12 PMThe problem was ball placement. Streveler has to throw a corner to the pylon in that case or he needs to read it and eat it after the defender didn't bite on the pump.

That was a poor pump. He needs to work on that.  :)  He needs to study Trevor Harris' or BLM's pump.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 05, 2025, 06:12:43 PMGuessing that the thought pattern was "They think we will run twice and kick the FG, so lets change that up".

The question that begs asking is, was a FG score in any doubt?  Did scoring a TD make a difference over a FG?  As well as burning clock? And even if its just incomplete and not INT'd, you stop the clock.

Score a TD there and yes, its a 2 TD game.  But you leave 3 min on the clock.  2 plays takes you to 2 minutes, and still they need 2 scores. And there is still the opportunity to score a TD or get a 1st down and burn another minute off the clock.

Yes, the call had merit, it was unexpected.

But considering the game situation, the QB involved, the Rec/DB matchup, it was putting Streveler into a bad spot, with an opportunity to fail big.

Would it have been a huge confidence boost had he made the throw?  Definitely. But was it worth the risk with all that could go bad?  Nope.

That is the ONLY merit the play call had - that it was unexpected.  Doing the unexpected has it's place - the odd fake punt/field goal attempt. 

This was not the place.  You said it earlier - the smart call is to burn the clock with runs, take the easy 3.  It's pretty hard to get two scores with 2 min or less - need to do everything right and a successful onside kickoff, then do it all right again.  Not impossible, but playing the odds it is a no-brainer.

What surprises me is that Osh has been a good clock manager for years now.  Kill the clock with runs, and we are so good at it.  Everyone expects the run, yet we still get 1st downs.

What shocks me is that Osh chose to back up Hogan and, by extension, throw Strevy under the bus.  Hogan - rookie move to do that, and like I said in another thread - you used up your mulligan with that dumb call.  But for Osh to support that?  I haven't seen that before.

Geez guys ... 

Quote from: J5V on August 06, 2025, 01:00:07 AMGeez guys ...

honestly not sure what you are showing here J5V - the first iteration was Strevy throwing an 18 yd pass for a TD in the GC.  It's been a while and I was waiting 29 years, but I would have to go back to check the accuracy.

But what exactly are you showing, what is your point?  Serious, not being a smart-@ss.

Quote from: peg_city on August 06, 2025, 12:15:39 AMWhat scary is when I think about the history of Blue Bomber back up QBs since 2000, Streveler is one of the better ones. Probably in the top 10 QBs since 2000.

Collaros
Khari
Glenn
Nichols
Willy
Pierce
Brown
Spergon Wynn
Steven Jyles

And whoever else I'm missing.

Spergon Wynn doesn't crack the top 40 QBs to dress for the Blue Bombers since 2000. He was the #4 QB behind Tee Martin & Russ Michna and Wynn only dressed for 3 games. He spent the rest of the season on the injured list with a variety of ailments (groin, turf toe & knee)

BTW, there have been 54 QBs to dress for the Blue Bombers since 2000.

Quote from: Big Daddy on August 06, 2025, 03:45:58 AMhonestly not sure what you are showing here J5V - the first iteration was Strevy throwing an 18 yd pass for a TD in the GC.  It's been a while and I was waiting 29 years, but I would have to go back to check the accuracy.

But what exactly are you showing, what is your point?  Serious, not being a smart-@ss.

Accuracy of what?

I'm just not understanding all the angst and ******** about Streveler ad nauseum. All QBs and OCs make mistakes, even the very best. Collaros, Ray, Flutie, Moon, etc. all threw their share of picks and made ill-advised throws. It's the pros -- ball hawks are everywhere. 

The guy makes clutch throws and has contributed in a big way to helping us win Cups. He deserves better than what we're delivering here in this forum. To those ******** the loudest, we get it, you don't like the player and are unhappy, but to go on and on about it is, frankly, getting annoying and swelling my ignore list.

Quote from: Stats Junkie on August 06, 2025, 04:28:37 AMSpergon Wynn doesn't crack the top 40 QBs to dress for the Blue Bombers since 2000. He was the #4 QB behind Tee Martin & Russ Michna and Wynn only dressed for 3 games. He spent the rest of the season on the injured list with a variety of ailments (groin, turf toe & knee)

BTW, there have been 54 QBs to dress for the Blue Bombers since 2000.

So Strev is top 10-15?

Quote from: peg_city on August 06, 2025, 12:50:05 PMSo Strev is top 10-15?

Streveler is a fine backup QB. It's always going to look unorthodox but he'll give you a chance. That's all you can expect from any number two. If it was anything more, he wouldn't be a backup, right? I'd put him near the top of our second QB lists. He's close to .500. Plenty of  projected "starters" never achieved that.

Quote from: J5V on August 06, 2025, 11:37:31 AMAccuracy of what?

I'm just not understanding all the angst and ******** about Streveler ad nauseum. All QBs and OCs make mistakes, even the very best. Collaros, Ray, Flutie, Moon, etc. all threw their share of picks and made ill-advised throws. It's the pros -- ball hawks are everywhere.

The guy makes clutch throws and has contributed in a big way to helping us win Cups. He deserves better than what we're delivering here in this forum. To those ******** the loudest, we get it, you don't like the player and are unhappy, but to go on and on about it is, frankly, getting annoying and swelling my ignore list.

Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me...

Making the same decision and expecting different results...

Streveler has a place, the place that he "has contributed in a big way to helping us win Cups".  He has never done that as a starter, sorry.

His place can be emergency sub, but he is far better as SY / change of pace for a few downs.  And he will never, ever be our future starter.

The issue I have is that the future starter we have on the roster, either Wilson or Chase, is stuck behind Streveler. 

Is it a $$ issue?  I'm not sure we are paying him much more than Wilson.

Is he at #2 on the DC for optics?  For players or fans?

Is Streveler more than Tommy Stevens, or Caleb Evans?

The BB can win with Streveler and that is all that matters...

Quote from: theaardvark on August 06, 2025, 06:37:00 PMFool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me...

Making the same decision and expecting different results...

Streveler has a place, the place that he "has contributed in a big way to helping us win Cups".  He has never done that as a starter, sorry.

His place can be emergency sub, but he is far better as SY / change of pace for a few downs.  And he will never, ever be our future starter.

The issue I have is that the future starter we have on the roster, either Wilson or Chase, is stuck behind Streveler. 

Is it a $$ issue?  I'm not sure we are paying him much more than Wilson.

Is he at #2 on the DC for optics?  For players or fans?

Is Streveler more than Tommy Stevens, or Caleb Evans?

Strev is cheap and a good insurance policy imo.  Not ideal but I'm ok with it for now. Would be interesting to know all the QBs salaries.

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 06, 2025, 08:35:39 PMStrev is cheap and a good insurance policy imo.  Not ideal but I'm ok with it for now. Would be interesting to know all the QBs salaries.

Collaros is making 600,000 this year.

I don't know Strev's salary, but I would guess somewhere between 125,000 to 150,000 with playtime incentives on top of that. By way of comparison in terms of back ups, MBT and Fajardo are the 2 highest paid back ups at about 180,000-185,000 plus incentives up to 260,000-265,000. Jake Maier is making 165,000 with incentives to 245,000. PJ walker is making 108,000 plus incentives up to 260,000.
I would guess Wilson is significantly less than Strev, ? 100,000.

https://3downnation.com/2025/04/14/qb1-money-cfls-highest-paid-quarterbacks-for-the-2025-season/

Quote from: bunker on August 07, 2025, 03:23:07 AMI don't know Strev's salary, but I would guess somewhere between 125,000 to 150,000

Last I heard Strev signed for $120k-ish.  It's a complete steal for what he brings.  I bet Wilson is on ELC+$10k.

There's no way WFC can afford a "real" vet #2 165-265k right now.  And barring injury (6GIR relief) when have we ever stocked a "real vet" #2?  Like never in a decade.

Quote from: Pete on August 05, 2025, 11:34:30 PMThis makes no sense, they gave Wilson basically no reps (1 pass attempt in the whole year) Then you put him in thar situation? Talk about setting him up for failure.

Kelly stepped into that exact situation and ran and threw perfectly to win the GC (against us).  That dude had basically zero live snaps before doing that, just like Wilson.  Did you see the fire in Kelly's eyes in that game?  Ya, that dude was serious.

Did you see anything at all in Wilson's eyes in the '24 GC series?  Nope, they looked just like the eyes of the NFL reject CGY fielded last week: unserious and lost.

Kelly mode is what I wanted to see.  If other teams have it, why can't we?  TOR won a GC because they had it.  We lost one because we didn't.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 05, 2025, 04:32:34 PMI'm happy either way, he stinks like Walker did in CGY, or he dominates like Dru, Powell,Alexander have done recently.  Or something in between.

He's Schrodinger's QB right now.  Until we observe him he's both a bum and the next Cavillo.

But stats & odds say Wilson has a less than 1/9 chance of having "it".  Probably less.  So many QBs come through the CFL each year, and all 9 teams together discover the next "it" guy only once every 1-2 seasons.

And since he didn't have "it" in the GC, my hope for him having "it" now is basically 0.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 07, 2025, 07:08:45 AMKelly mode is what I wanted to see.  If other teams have it, why can't we?  TOR won a GC because they had it.  We lost one because we didn't.

Kelly is a poor comparison because he is an NFL QB that got black listed for questionable behavior. He was never rejected based on ability.

Quote from: Waffler on August 07, 2025, 12:34:17 PMKelly is a poor comparison because he is an NFL QB that got black listed for questionable behavior. He was never rejected based on ability.

lol, what are Chad Kelly's NFL statistics?

Quote from: Jesse on August 07, 2025, 12:50:47 PMlol, what are Chad Kelly's NFL statistics?

Never stayed out of trouble long enough. He made it to QB2 in Denver as a 24 year old. Promptly got himself arrested and cut. Likely he would have spent his whole career in the NFL if he could behave. We don't know what his ceiling would have been.

Quote from: Jesse on August 02, 2025, 04:28:15 AMAt the end of the day, it doesn't matter if we're starting Strev or Wilson. If Zach isn't in, we're toast.

Complain all you want about who is #2 or #3 or #4, it's irrelevant.

I think this can be said for every team in the league.

Quote from: jdrattops on August 07, 2025, 01:41:58 PMI think this can be said for every team in the league.

Yup.

Wasn't a criticism of us, it was telling people to get over who the 3rd string QB is. They're 3rd for a reason.

Quote from: jdrattops on August 07, 2025, 01:41:58 PMI think this can be said for every team in the league.

Except the Argos did it twice, perhaps Dinwiddie does a much better job of preparing his backups to play.  Derek Taylor say the Bombers 2nd string gets very few scrimmage reps in practice and #3 virtually zero. How can they get good at their job with such extreme limitations in practice?

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 07, 2025, 04:17:37 PMExcept the Argos did it twice, perhaps Dinwiddie does a much better job of preparing his backups to play.  I Derek Taylor say the Bombers 2nd string gets very few scrimmage reps in practice and #3 virtually zero. How can they get good at their job with such extreme limitations in practice?

I agree. MOS always saying Zach doesn't need to practice but then makes sure that he gets the lions share of reps. Dru Brown was the only one prepared to come off the bench and win, only after he had been here a number of years though. I just accept it now because that's the way it has always been and I can't see it changing. We did win a lot this way but it's kind of an all or nothing approach. Even in games that get out of hand he'll continue to play Collaros.

In any event, who could tell MOS to change? Hogan? Maybe Jackson could have but he didn't get the OC job. Nope, we ride Collaros as far as we can and hope 36 (37th birthday in 3 weeks) is not too old.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 07, 2025, 04:17:37 PMExcept the Argos did it twice, perhaps Dinwiddie does a much better job of preparing his backups to play.  I Derek Taylor say the Bombers 2nd string gets very few scrimmage reps in practice and #3 virtually zero. How can they get good at their job with such extreme limitations in practice?

Every team is the same. The practice hours are very limited.

Quote from: Jesse on August 07, 2025, 05:05:31 PMEvery team is the same. The practice hours are very limited.

Wally Buono was famous for giving his QB's equal time in practice. Calgary was the QB factory for the league in that time. There is more than one way to do things.

Quote from: Jesse on August 07, 2025, 05:05:31 PMEvery team is the same. The practice hours are very limited.

True in that sense but I've heard the Stamps run a practice system that gets there backups more reps which maybe what Dinwiddie is also doing.

Quote from: Jesse on August 07, 2025, 05:05:31 PMEvery team is the same.

That is not a good reason for doing it.

Quote from: markf on August 07, 2025, 05:37:04 PMThat is not a good reason for doing it.

The reason is you're trying to win on Saturday and your best chance of getting that win is having Zach as prepared as possible.

At the point where Wilson is at, he has to force the coaches hand by making them want to see more. Put in extra hours with receivers on his own time.

If we're not seeing more of him, then there's usually reasons behind why that is.

Quote from: Jesse on August 07, 2025, 05:56:15 PMThe reason is you're trying to win on Saturday and your best chance of getting that win is having Zach as prepared as possible.

At the point where Wilson is at, he has to force the coaches hand by making them want to see more. Put in extra hours with receivers on his own time.

If we're not seeing more of him, then there's usually reasons behind why that is.

Would you claim the Bomber method works?  Seems to me other than Dru Brown, they haven't been able to develop a QB since Dieter Brock.

Zach, as a vet, does not "need" to practice, and if he's healing, he shouldn't. 

Zach, as a QB running an O that has moving parts on it, new Rec's, new Olinemen, etc, needs reps to get into a rhythm. 

The fine line to balance is how many does he need.

The backups usually run the snaps for the D, the taxi squad snaps.  This doesn't give the QB a lot of snaps with the first team Oline or Rec's, but they get snaps.  Many times, I've seena  backup come in, and suddenly the 5th rec gets targets, because they have time practicing together.

I want our QB's ready to step in, and that means getting some reps.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 07, 2025, 06:18:23 PMWould you claim the Bomber method works?  Seems to me other than Dru Brown, they haven't been able to develop a QB since Dieter Brock.

Dev'ing 1 starter in 1 decade is about par for CFL teams.

Quote from: Waffler on August 07, 2025, 05:09:12 PMWally Buono was famous for giving his QB's equal time in practice. Calgary was the QB factory for the league in that time. There is more than one way to do things.

Could have something to do with having a cerebral QB as your HC / HC-in-waiting.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 07, 2025, 06:18:23 PMWould you claim the Bomber method works?  Seems to me other than Dru Brown, they haven't been able to develop a QB since Dieter Brock.

How many teams are starting QBs that they brought in and developed? Just BC? Als hoping that Alexander can be one too.

Quote from: Jesse on August 07, 2025, 10:14:09 PMHow many teams are starting QBs that they brought in and developed? Just BC? Als hoping that Alexander can be one too.

Half the active QB's in the league started with the Argos behind Rickie Ray, the other half with the Stamps.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 08, 2025, 03:38:48 AMHalf the active QB's in the league started with the Argos behind Rickie Ray, the other half with the Stamps.

It's always like this, where every once in a while, one team seems to have a run of QBs that seem to take over the league. I really don't think it's development. I think it's scouting.

That 2012 Argos team was HC'd by Scott Milanovich, and the he had success by getting Ricky Ray. Same way he's doing now by getting Bo Levi. He wants a vet QB - not developing a young one. Jim Barker/his staff went out and found Harris, Collaros, and Fajardo. And they got playing time because the guy ahead of them got injured.

Bo Levi is really the only QB that came out of Calgary. And he was immediately good. They had to use Kevin Glenn before he came along and sucked after he left until they got Adams.

Adams - Montreal
Rourke - BC
Harris - Toronto
Collaros - Toronto
Fajardo - Toronto
Brown - Winnipeg
Bo - Calgary
Arbuckle - Calgary (if you want to call Arbuckle a starter)
Kelly - Edmonton/Toronto (On Edmonton's neg list but would only play for TO)
MBT - Winnipeg
Alexander - Montreal
Ford - Edmonton

Toronto had that one crazy run 13 years ago. I'd hardly say that makes them (with completely separate owners/GM/coaches from now) experts at developing QBs. And like every other team, those opportunities originally came with injuries ahead of them. Not because of practice time at the expense of the starting QB.

Quote from: Jesse on August 08, 2025, 11:26:24 AMIt's always like this, where every once in a while, one team seems to have a run of QBs that seem to take over the league. I really don't think it's development. I think it's scouting.

That 2012 Argos team was HC'd by Scott Milanovich, and the he had success by getting Ricky Ray. Same way he's doing now by getting Bo Levi. He wants a vet QB - not developing a young one. Jim Barker/his staff went out and found Harris, Collaros, and Fajardo. And they got playing time because the guy ahead of them got injured.

Bo Levi is really the only QB that came out of Calgary. And he was immediately good. They had to use Kevin Glenn before he came along and sucked after he left until they got Adams.

Adams - Montreal
Rourke - BC
Harris - Toronto
Collaros - Toronto
Fajardo - Toronto
Brown - Winnipeg
Bo - Calgary
Arbuckle - Calgary (if you want to call Arbuckle a starter)
Kelly - Edmonton/Toronto (On Edmonton's neg list but would only play for TO)
MBT - Winnipeg
Alexander - Montreal
Ford - Edmonton

Toronto had that one crazy run 13 years ago. I'd hardly say that makes them (with completely separate owners/GM/coaches from now) experts at developing QBs. And like every other team, those opportunities originally came with injuries ahead of them. Not because of practice time at the expense of the starting QB.

good list

if you go back a bit more Calgary had a good run with Garcia and Dickenson.

Cavillo took a number of years before he became a legit starter, and then...

Ray was tossed on the trash heap and then...

Mitchell was past his "best before" and then...

Collaros was almost retired and then...

All these guys were deep into their careers before they player their best ball.

Are the WFC holding our with Streveler because they think he has this in him?  Do we expect/hope that it all comes together and he starts playing like AC or Ray did?

Because for the few guys that have done that, there a boogering dozens who have flashed better at the start of their careers than those 4, were given long leashes and years to develop, and never progressed beyond backup/SY capabilities.

Its not that Strevey doesn't have some great tools, he can run over people, he has an arm (and very unconventional mechanics), but the main tool is the one between the ears.

He is a heart on the sleeve, emotional guy.  Which is not ideal in a QB.  You want some passion, sure, but he seems to get too hyped, both ways. And a QB needs to dial in and be ready for every snap with the same mindset.

It feels like he "grips the stick too hard" to steal a hockey metaphor.  Instead of relaxing into the pressure, he fights it.  Its like it makes him make bad decisions to try and be the hero.  Like the INT at the end of last game.  I don't know of another QB that would have tried that throw. Especially one that has Strevelers wheels.  He should have eaten it, run with it, or tossed it away.  But that is NOT in his psyche.  And that, to me, is disqualifying. 

Its not a "learning moment", he's been there many times in his many years.  Its not a "we'll look at the film and see what happened" time. We watched it live an KNOW what happened.

Its time to Sinopoli his QB aspirations.  He has good hands, and good power. Whether he's a RB, a TE or a SB, he's worth the contract we are paying him.  He can stay on the roster as 3rd QB for roster flexibility, CFL allows 2 QB's on the field, and he's the emergency 3rd guy and maybe SY too, like Litre.

If he wants to play football past this contract, he needs to transition.

That's my hope and opinion.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 08, 2025, 03:57:29 PMCavillo took a number of years before he became a legit starter, and then...

Ray was tossed on the trash heap and then...

Mitchell was past his "best before" and then...

Collaros was almost retired and then...

All these guys were deep into their careers before they player their best ball.

Are the WFC holding our with Streveler because they think he has this in him?  Do we expect/hope that it all comes together and he starts playing like AC or Ray did?

Because for the few guys that have done that, there a boogering dozens who have flashed better at the start of their careers than those 4, were given long leashes and years to develop, and never progressed beyond backup/SY capabilities.

Its not that Strevey doesn't have some great tools, he can run over people, he has an arm (and very unconventional mechanics), but the main tool is the one between the ears.

He is a heart on the sleeve, emotional guy.  Which is not ideal in a QB.  You want some passion, sure, but he seems to get too hyped, both ways. And a QB needs to dial in and be ready for every snap with the same mindset.

It feels like he "grips the stick too hard" to steal a hockey metaphor.  Instead of relaxing into the pressure, he fights it.  Its like it makes him make bad decisions to try and be the hero.  Like the INT at the end of last game.  I don't know of another QB that would have tried that throw. Especially one that has Strevelers wheels.  He should have eaten it, run with it, or tossed it away.  But that is NOT in his psyche.  And that, to me, is disqualifying. 

Its not a "learning moment", he's been there many times in his many years.  Its not a "we'll look at the film and see what happened" time. We watched it live an KNOW what happened.

Its time to Sinopoli his QB aspirations.  He has good hands, and good power. Whether he's a RB, a TE or a SB, he's worth the contract we are paying him.  He can stay on the roster as 3rd QB for roster flexibility, CFL allows 2 QB's on the field, and he's the emergency 3rd guy and maybe SY too, like Litre.

If he wants to play football past this contract, he needs to transition.

That's my hope and opinion.

Wishful thinking. He's peaked and may be on the decline after injury made his running less productive.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 08, 2025, 03:57:29 PMCavillo took a number of years before he became a legit starter, and then...

Ray was tossed on the trash heap and then...

Mitchell was past his "best before" and then...

Collaros was almost retired and then...

All these guys were deep into their careers before they player their best ball.

Calvillio is always the only example of someone taking a long time to develop. And he was also instantly good and started playing when he was like 21.

Ray was immediately great. He didn't play his best with Toronto, he just continued to be great.

Same with Bo who clearly dealt with injuries that I'm amazed he came back from. But his best football was still with Calgary.

Zach was also instantly good before concussion problems took him out for while and I'm even more surprised he came back, but it didn't take him this long to develop.

Not sure what any of these Hall of Famers have to do with a career back-up.

Quote from: Jesse on August 08, 2025, 04:25:38 PMCalvillio is always the only example of someone taking a long time to develop. And he was also instantly good and started playing when he was like 21.

Ray was immediately great. He didn't play his best with Toronto, he just continued to be great.

Same with Bo who clearly dealt with injuries that I'm amazed he came back from. But his best football was still with Calgary.

Zach was also instantly good before concussion problems took him out for while and I'm even more surprised he came back, but it didn't take him this long to develop.

Not sure what any of these Hall of Famers have to do with a career back-up.

Absolutely nothing. Want to know how good Calvillo was?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gridiron_football_quarterbacks_passing_statistics

You only get there by being good over the duration of your career.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 08, 2025, 03:57:29 PMCavillo took a number of years before he became a legit starter, and then...

Ray was tossed on the trash heap and then...

Mitchell was past his "best before" and then...

Collaros was almost retired and then...

All these guys were deep into their careers before they player their best ball.

Are the WFC holding our with Streveler because they think he has this in him?  Do we expect/hope that it all comes together and he starts playing like AC or Ray did?

Because for the few guys that have done that, there a boogering dozens who have flashed better at the start of their careers than those 4, were given long leashes and years to develop, and never progressed beyond backup/SY capabilities.

Its not that Strevey doesn't have some great tools, he can run over people, he has an arm (and very unconventional mechanics), but the main tool is the one between the ears.

He is a heart on the sleeve, emotional guy.  Which is not ideal in a QB.  You want some passion, sure, but he seems to get too hyped, both ways. And a QB needs to dial in and be ready for every snap with the same mindset.

It feels like he "grips the stick too hard" to steal a hockey metaphor.  Instead of relaxing into the pressure, he fights it.  Its like it makes him make bad decisions to try and be the hero.  Like the INT at the end of last game.  I don't know of another QB that would have tried that throw. Especially one that has Strevelers wheels.  He should have eaten it, run with it, or tossed it away.  But that is NOT in his psyche.  And that, to me, is disqualifying. 

Its not a "learning moment", he's been there many times in his many years.  Its not a "we'll look at the film and see what happened" time. We watched it live an KNOW what happened.

Its time to Sinopoli his QB aspirations.  He has good hands, and good power. Whether he's a RB, a TE or a SB, he's worth the contract we are paying him.  He can stay on the roster as 3rd QB for roster flexibility, CFL allows 2 QB's on the field, and he's the emergency 3rd guy and maybe SY too, like Litre.

If he wants to play football past this contract, he needs to transition.

That's my hope and opinion.

I think QB success often comes down to the quality of team they're playing for and the coaching staff.  Dru Brown is a potential GC winning QB on a better team and BLM's comeback has a lot to do with the improvement in the team that's been built around him in the last 2 seasons.

Quote from: Jesse on August 08, 2025, 11:26:24 AMIt's always like this, where every once in a while, one team seems to have a run of QBs that seem to take over the league. I really don't think it's development. I think it's scouting.

That 2012 Argos team was HC'd by Scott Milanovich, and the he had success by getting Ricky Ray. Same way he's doing now by getting Bo Levi. He wants a vet QB - not developing a young one. Jim Barker/his staff went out and found Harris, Collaros, and Fajardo. And they got playing time because the guy ahead of them got injured.

Bo Levi is really the only QB that came out of Calgary. And he was immediately good. They had to use Kevin Glenn before he came along and sucked after he left until they got Adams.

Adams - Montreal
Rourke - BC
Harris - Toronto
Collaros - Toronto
Fajardo - Toronto
Brown - Winnipeg
Bo - Calgary
Arbuckle - Calgary (if you want to call Arbuckle a starter)
Kelly - Edmonton/Toronto (On Edmonton's neg list but would only play for TO)
MBT - Winnipeg
Alexander - Montreal
Ford - Edmonton

Toronto had that one crazy run 13 years ago. I'd hardly say that makes them (with completely separate owners/GM/coaches from now) experts at developing QBs. And like every other team, those opportunities originally came with injuries ahead of them. Not because of practice time at the expense of the starting QB.

Good answer!

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 08, 2025, 04:41:32 PMI think QB success often comes down to the quality of team they're playing for and the coaching staff.  Dru Brown is a potential GC winning QB on a better team and BLM's comeback has a lot to do with the improvement in the team that's been built around him in the last 2 seasons.

Also very true. Likewise Collaros isn't on the run he's on if he wasn't playing in front of some hall of fame lineman as well as (up to this year) one of the best defenses every season. Typically, a great QB can make a good team elite but an elite QB can't make a bad team good.

Quote from: Jesse on August 08, 2025, 04:25:38 PMCalvillio is always the only example of someone taking a long time to develop. And he was also instantly good and started playing when he was like 21.

Ray was immediately great. He didn't play his best with Toronto, he just continued to be great.

Same with Bo who clearly dealt with injuries that I'm amazed he came back from. But his best football was still with Calgary.

Zach was also instantly good before concussion problems took him out for while and I'm even more surprised he came back, but it didn't take him this long to develop.

Not sure what any of these Hall of Famers have to do with a career back-up.

My point being, those hall of famers were "done" accordin to the teams they were playing for, but managed to rekindle their careers in a new environment.

Streveler had a certain instant goodness to him, enough to get him enough NFL time to get a pension.  We don't know how he would have done if he stayed in the CFL, or got a chance to play somewhere else than behind Collaros.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 08, 2025, 05:25:44 PMMy point being, those hall of famers were "done" accordin to the teams they were playing for, but managed to rekindle their careers in a new environment.

Streveler had a certain instant goodness to him, enough to get him enough NFL time to get a pension.  We don't know how he would have done if he stayed in the CFL, or got a chance to play somewhere else than behind Collaros.

Yeah we do. He still can't read a defence, doesn't throw all that accurately and telegraphs throws. None of those are hallmarks of good QB's. At best he was a gimmicky kind of QB that was in a LB body that could run over smaller defensive players.

If Strev was to get injured, I would take a run at Fajardo as a backup till the end of the season.

Anyone hear how Elgersma is doing with the Packers.

Quote from: Pigskin on August 08, 2025, 06:02:19 PMIf Strev was to get injured, I would take a run at Fajardo as a backup till the end of the season.

Anyone hear how Elgersma is doing with the Packers.

Do you mean Fajardo, the starting QB for the Elks?

Quote from: Pigskin on August 08, 2025, 06:02:19 PMIf Strev was to get injured, I would take a run at Fajardo as a backup till the end of the season.

Anyone hear how Elgersma is doing with the Packers.

Seems to be doing very well, currently rated #4.

Canadian quarterback Taylor Elgersma should see playing time in the Green Bay Packers' first preseason game against the New York Jets.

Head coach Matt LaFleur said the team will do its best to give all four quarterbacks — franchise man Jordan Love, Malik Willis, Sean Clifford, and Elgersma — "meaningful reps" at Lambeau Field on Saturday night.

"Certainly, some of those guys are going to play longer than others," LaFleur said.

The 23-year-old signed with the Packers as an undrafted free agent in May. Green Bay believed he would bring a lot of competition to the QB room. He threw a touchdown pass during the Packers Family Night scrimmage on Saturday, August 2 and impressed LaFleur despite limited reps in training camp.

"He's another guy that's flashed. He's got the arm talent. It's just the consistency. It's always hard for a guy... the majority of the reps are going to Jordan and Malik," LaFleur said.

The 2024 Hec Crighton trophy winner needs to be ready for his first live game action in the NFL. Performing well against the Jets can go a long way towards earning a spot with the Packers going into the 2025 regular season, be it on the active roster or practice squad. He's in competition with Clifford for the third-string role but there's a possibility Green Bay keeps four quarterbacks.

https://3downnation.com/2025/08/08/canadian-qb-taylor-elgersma-has-flashed-during-green-bay-packers-training-camp-needs-to-maximize-opportunities-in-nfl-preseason/ (https://3downnation.com/2025/08/08/canadian-qb-taylor-elgersma-has-flashed-during-green-bay-packers-training-camp-needs-to-maximize-opportunities-in-nfl-preseason/)

STREVELER is terrible on short yardage now his injury is hampering him obviously. Use  Terry Wilson on short yardage. He use to be more powerful before injury. It's too bad but it happens and i hate it. 

Quote from: Austin85 on August 10, 2025, 12:36:02 AMSTREVELER is terrible on short yardage now his injury is hampering him obviously. Use  Terry Wilson on short yardage. He use to be more powerful before injury. It's too bad but it happens and i hate it. 

Yeah, I am not on the Terry train at all, but I'm really coming around to using him as the SY.

He is our best passing  QB, using your starter like this defines this whole mess.

Strev isn't as bad at SY as some suggested imo
Suggesting that he is our best passing QB is as far a stretch as I have ever seen on here

Wilson also good at it

Quote from: Austin85 on August 10, 2025, 12:36:02 AMSTREVELER is terrible on short yardage now his injury is hampering him obviously. Use  Terry Wilson on short yardage. He use to be more powerful before injury. It's too bad but it happens and i hate it. 

This is true. He doesn't have the quickness and power he use to have.

Quote from: Pigskin on August 10, 2025, 04:07:05 AMThis is true. He doesn't have the quickness and power he use to have.

Not terrible at it
Was amazing at it
Now average at it with a good success rates still
Power is still mostly there
Mobility and speed is gone

Quote from: Pigskin on August 10, 2025, 04:07:05 AMThis is true. He doesn't have the quickness and power he use to have.

Quickness and power wasn't going to get him past the 2-3 LBers that got hands on him over the top immediately.

The SY scheme was crap.  He went right under 100% submarining OL.  That left every LBer free over the top.

I've never seen so many LBers stuff the upper hole so fast in my life.  Normally you only have 1 guy jumping the pile (like Biggie used to).  How did they have so many free guys?

Got too complacent and just did what was on film.  Need to mix it up.  A LOT.  A, B, C gaps, both sides.  Mix it the fudge up.

And you have 6'13 800 lb Wallace there at LG, why not follow him standing up right like we've done before?  Why follow Neuf?  Ugh.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 10, 2025, 07:20:40 AMQuickness and power wasn't going to get him past the 2-3 LBers that got hands on him over the top immediately.

The SY scheme was crap.  He went right under 100% submarining OL.  That left every LBer free over the top.

I've never seen so many LBers stuff the upper hole so fast in my life.  Normally you only have 1 guy jumping the pile (like Biggie used to).  How did they have so many free guys?

Got too complacent and just did what was on film.  Need to mix it up.  A LOT.  A, B, C gaps, both sides.  Mix it the fudge up.

And you have 6'13 800 lb Wallace there at LG, why not follow him standing up right like we've done before?  Why follow Neuf?  Ugh.

Was just thinking the same, even Dom Davis wouldn't have found a hole there

Agree with your plan

Quote from: Austin85 on August 10, 2025, 12:36:02 AMSTREVELER is terrible on short yardage now his injury is hampering him obviously. Use  Terry Wilson on short yardage. He use to be more powerful before injury. It's too bad but it happens and i hate it. 

He was 13/13 up to that fail.  I guess you're great until you miss.

We should have taken the points, though.  Turnovers are huge momentum swings, and self inflicted ones, moreso.

I get it, MOS has to trust his guys.  I still don't have to like it.

I'm fine with Streveler being SY guy, I don't think he is hampered at all, Hogan just needs to get the blocking scheme for him figured.  I agree, you have a road grader like Wallace, you run behind him.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 10, 2025, 07:41:53 PMHe was 13/13 up to that fail.  I guess you're great until you miss.

We should have taken the points, though.  Turnovers are huge momentum swings, and self inflicted ones, moreso.

I get it, MOS has to trust his guys.  I still don't have to like it.

I'm fine with Streveler being SY guy, I don't think he is hampered at all, Hogan just needs to get the blocking scheme for him figured.  I agree, you have a road grader like Wallace, you run behind him.

Agree with everything you have said here.  Well said.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 07, 2025, 06:18:23 PMWould you claim the Bomber method works?  Seems to me other than Dru Brown, they haven't been able to develop a QB since Dieter Brock.

Bombers have been pretty bad at developing qbs no doubt, but they did develop McManus for 3 years.  He just went to another team in 93 but didn't actually become a full-time starter until 1995 or so.

Can't blame the Bombers for sticking with Dunigan given he was easily the better QB in addition to being in the middle of a 3-year contract.  It was just bad luck the Bombers never one the Grey Cup in 93 when he was injured late in the season (too bad Cal couldn't convince Danny to stick around for one more year as he likely would have made the difference in winning againt Edmonton). 

While I'm at it, bad luck and an unfair playing field led to Dunigan failing to make it to the 1994 Grey Cup when he hit the goalpost late in the game trying to pass it to a Bomber receiver for the go-ahead TD against the all-American Baltimore Stallions.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 07, 2025, 09:17:08 PMDev'ing 1 starter in 1 decade is about par for CFL teams.

Bombers haven't done that though.  Dieter in the 70s.  Salisbury in the 80s is debatable because he did some development in the NFL prior to coming here.  90s it was McManus.  2000s no one - Khari was developed nicely for us by the Lions for 3 years and Glen was developed for us for a couple years by the Riders.  2010s - Strev showed promise early on but looked mostly terrible as a starter in 2019 and has looked average at best compared to other backups in the league...so not a starter.  2020s - Dru Brown who at least to this point looks like an average starter/slightly above average with room for improvement.

So 3 starters developed in 3 decades, arguably 4 if you want to count Salisbury.

Quote from: The Zipp on August 08, 2025, 02:49:40 PMgood list

if you go back a bit more Calgary had a good run with Garcia and Dickenson.

Also developed Burris before he went to Saskatchewan

Quote from: blueandgoldguy on August 11, 2025, 01:33:06 AMBombers haven't done that though.  Dieter in the 70s.  Salisbury in the 80s is debatable because he did some development in the NFL prior to coming here.  90s it was McManus.  2000s no one - Khari was developed nicely for us by the Lions for 3 years and Glen was developed for us for a couple years by the Riders.  2010s - Strev showed promise early on but looked mostly terrible as a starter in 2019 and has looked average at best compared to other backups in the league...so not a starter.  2020s - Dru Brown who at least to this point looks like an average starter/slightly above average with room for improvement.

So 3 starters developed in 3 decades, arguably 4 if you want to count Salisbury.

By your count, isn't that 3 starters developed in 5 decades?  1975-2025?  Even if you count Salisbury (I wouldn't) it's still less than one a decade.

Quote from: Jesse on August 08, 2025, 11:26:24 AMIt's always like this, where every once in a while, one team seems to have a run of QBs that seem to take over the league. I really don't think it's development. I think it's scouting.

That 2012 Argos team was HC'd by Scott Milanovich, and the he had success by getting Ricky Ray. Same way he's doing now by getting Bo Levi. He wants a vet QB - not developing a young one. Jim Barker/his staff went out and found Harris, Collaros, and Fajardo. And they got playing time because the guy ahead of them got injured.

Bo Levi is really the only QB that came out of Calgary. And he was immediately good. They had to use Kevin Glenn before he came along and sucked after he left until they got Adams.

Adams - Montreal
Rourke - BC
Harris - Toronto
Collaros - Toronto
Fajardo - Toronto
Brown - Winnipeg
Bo - Calgary
Arbuckle - Calgary (if you want to call Arbuckle a starter)
Kelly - Edmonton/Toronto (On Edmonton's neg list but would only play for TO)
MBT - Winnipeg
Alexander - Montreal
Ford - Edmonton

Toronto had that one crazy run 13 years ago. I'd hardly say that makes them (with completely separate owners/GM/coaches from now) experts at developing QBs. And like every other team, those opportunities originally came with injuries ahead of them. Not because of practice time at the expense of the starting QB.

I have no recall of MBT being on our practice roster way back - this is a great list!

However, I would hardly put him as a development qb for the Bombers just being on the practice roster a month or so.

I guess we were his introduction to the CFL?  So there's that.

Quote from: Big Daddy on August 11, 2025, 02:34:21 AMI have no recall of MBT being on our practice roster way back - this is a great list!

I don't think MBT was on our PR.  He was here in a TC and then cut in final cuts IIRC.

I think he threw a great deep TD in a PS game?  He certainly showed glimpses of having "it".

So we can take credit for scouting him, but no credit at all for dev'ing him.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 11, 2025, 04:00:45 AMI don't think MBT was on our PR.  He was here in a TC and then cut in final cuts IIRC.

I think he threw a great deep TD in a PS game?  He certainly showed glimpses of having "it".

So we can take credit for scouting him, but no credit at all for dev'ing him.

okay that makes more sense.  I still do not have any recall of him being here.  And I would've seen that PS game deep TD as I would've been there, or watched it on TV.  So hats off to your recall and Jesse!

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 11, 2025, 04:00:45 AMI don't think MBT was on our PR.  He was here in a TC and then cut in final cuts IIRC.

I think he threw a great deep TD in a PS game?  He certainly showed glimpses of having "it".

So we can take credit for scouting him, but no credit at all for dev'ing him.

The Bombers signed him to the PR in September 2016.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20160920183928/http://www.bluebombers.com/2016/09/20/bombers-add-to-practice-roster/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20160920183928/http://www.bluebombers.com/2016/09/20/bombers-add-to-practice-roster/)

They cut him on October 19.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20161103170453/http://www.cfl.ca/transactions/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20161103170453/http://www.cfl.ca/transactions/)

I don't think anyone "developed" MBT. He came here in his 6th year as a pro. We were something like his 12th team.

Speaking of QBs. Elgersma was 3/4 for 28 yards in his first pre-season game. Played about 3 minutes late in the 4th. quarter.

Quote from: Pigskin on August 11, 2025, 01:45:34 PMSpeaking of QBs. Elgersma was 3/4 for 28 yards in his first pre-season game. Played about 3 minutes late in the 4th. quarter.

Always hard to assess at garbage time in preseason, all the d was likely rookies playing off.

Quote from: Pete on August 11, 2025, 02:31:17 PMAlways hard to assess at garbage time in preseason, all the d was likely rookies playing off.

I was happy to hear he got in and got a few minutes of playing time.

Quote from: Pete on August 11, 2025, 02:31:17 PMAlways hard to assess at garbage time in preseason, all the d was likely rookies playing off.

As were all the O, level playing field.

He "flashed" in camp as well, which is why he is still there and got any PS snaps at all.

I won't hold my breath for him coming north in the next year or two, but I can see him eventually making it here.  Big fish/small pond.

Green Bay only has 4 QB's. Elgersma's worst outcome is PR since they keep 3 on the roster. They say he will see more action in the next game.

O. Wilson however is in tough. He will have to show a lot in the next game or two. 

Quote from: Waffler on August 11, 2025, 03:14:09 PMGreen Bay only has 4 QB's. Elgersma's worst outcome is PR since they keep 3 on the roster. They say he will see more action in the next game.

O. Wilson however is in tough. He will have to show a lot in the next game or two. 

Good news, Pokey is not a quick learner, his talent is only revealed when they throw the ball in his direction as a last hope and he somehow snaps it out of the air and picks up another 6-8 YAC, surprising everyone. He won't look good on film unless they throw the ball to him.

Quote from: Jesse on August 11, 2025, 12:40:07 PMI don't think anyone "developed" MBT. He came here in his 6th year as a pro. We were something like his 12th team.

He was certainly dev'd for the Canadian game.  He didn't do much when he first arrived up north.  Took him a long while to become a legit starter.

Quote from: theaardvark on August 11, 2025, 02:54:55 PMAs were all the O, level playing field.

He "flashed" in camp as well, which is why he is still there and got any PS snaps at all.

I won't hold my breath for him coming north in the next year or two, but I can see him eventually making it here.  Big fish/small pond.

Just my total guess but I think he'll be here for camp next year. The Packers probably release him in a couple weeks and he'll wait it out and sign in the CFL off-season.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 12, 2025, 12:44:12 AMHe was certainly dev'd for the Canadian game.  He didn't do much when he first arrived up north.  Took him a long while to become a legit starter.

Cuppa coffee in Winnipeg...

McLeod Bethel-Thompson was signed to the Winnipeg Blue Bombers' practice roster on September 20, 2016. He was released by the team on October 19, 2016.

Quote from: ModAdmin on August 12, 2025, 06:09:52 AMCuppa coffee in Winnipeg...

McLeod Bethel-Thompson was signed to the Winnipeg Blue Bombers' practice roster on September 20, 2016. He was released by the team on October 19, 2016.

I said he was dev'd... I didn't say by us!  I'd have to wrack my brain (and cheat and check his cfl.ca page) to remember who did all his dev... TOR?