Zach neck / head
Vaval?
Nichols just winded?
What did I miss?
I think Nichols returned to the game? Hopefully he's not out.
Vaval might be nothing major? He didn't return and I didn't see him on the sidelines (neither was Zach).
Zach seems precautionary. More of the same ol'.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 19, 2025, 06:31:19 AMI think Nichols returned to the game? Hopefully he's not out.
Vaval might be nothing major? He didn't return and I didn't see him on the sidelines (neither was Zach).
Zach seems precautionary. More of the same ol'.
Nichols came back yes
Vaval didn't
Agree Zach
I find it a bit odd that many times when we lose a player mid-game they don't ever come back out to the sidelines. Many players on most teams will come back out to support their troops, even if they're in civvies.
I'm pretty sure I've seen other players in concussion protocol go back out in civvies? Weird.
I just watched the Zach hit on PVR and it's 100% concussion protocol. Basically a copy of what happened to T.Harris in SSK the other week.
He was seeing stars like Wile E. Coyote after he gets hit with an anvil.
I still don't understand why they don't put pillows or some hi-tech substitute on the outside back of Zach's helmet. This seems to be the #1 way QBs get concussed in the pocket: being pushed straight back and having the head snap and whack the turf.
They spend so much effort on that wacky loose part at the top of the head, but never the back. The top does nothing because they've taken the helmet-to-crown QB hits out of the game. They need like crumple zones for the back.
Based on the other times this has happened I would say WFC will be likely to keep Zach out the next 1-2 games.
Edit: per Riderforum, there is a product called VICIS helmet that seems to do what I'm thinking:
https://techweek.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/vicis-helmet.jpg
But for players like Zach I think you double the very back-of-head protection/padding. Need to make it like you're flopping down on your bed pillow really hard, not dropping your head on concrete.
Quote from: DM83 on July 19, 2025, 11:25:52 AMCollaros has been done for a while. That offensive line sucks. If I were Zac's family, I would advise retirement.
Nope has been great most his time here and good recently. Not that close to retirement imo. Was having a good game before he got hurt.
OL banged up and work in progress
Yes a rough game
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 19, 2025, 07:10:57 PMNope has been great most his time here and good recently. Not that close to retirement imo. Was having a good game before he got hurt.
OL banged up and work in progress
Yes a rough game
He is 36 years old. He's very close to retirement and his concussion history is important to consider. Not everything is a criticism. Some things are what they are.
Quote from: Jesse on July 19, 2025, 08:29:33 PMHe is 36 years old. He's very close to retirement and his concussion history is important to consider. Not everything is a criticism. Some things are what they are.
DM83 suggested he retire now. I said he wasn't that close to retirement. Nothing to do with criticim. Yes the end is near but it's not now. Has a couple seasons left imo. Yes depending on seriousness of his injury, he needs to take that into account. You took my post out context. I am very aware of Zach's age and injury history, as most of us are. My post was to counter DM83s suggestion that he retires now. That is all.
I sincerely worry about anyone taking snaps behind that pitiful O line. C mon man we gotta be better than that!! These guys are literally putting their heads on the line. Stanley Bryant old slow and all is miles better than what we saw last night. That was embarrassing
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 19, 2025, 08:45:13 PMDM83 suggested he retire now. I said he wasn't that close to retirement. Nothing to do with criticim. Yes the end is near but it's not now. Has a couple seasons left imo. Yes depending on seriousness of his injury, he needs to take that into account. You took my post out context. I am very aware of Zach's age and injury history, as most of us are. My post was to counter DM83s suggestion that he retires now. That is all.
Concussions are a serious thing and he has a history with them. At some point the next one is the last one. They are cumulative and we won't know whether the next one is when that point is reached.
I don't know how serious this one might have been. If he's out and how long he's out plays into that. I'm not suggesting he'll end up on the 6 game IR. Let's just say that happens in a worst case scenario.
That would suggest the time has come and DM83 may have a point. In the interest of his long term health, it may be wise.
I'm not jumping to conclusions but how many more hits to the head can he take?
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 19, 2025, 09:53:38 PMConcussions are a serious thing and he has a history with them. At some point the next one is the last one. They are cumulative and we won't know whether the next one is when that point is reached.
I don't know how serious this one might have been. If he's out and how long he's out plays into that. I'm not suggesting he'll end up on the 6 game IR. Let's just say that happens in a worst case scenario.
That would suggest the time has come and DM83 may have a point. In the interest of his long term health, it may be wise.
I'm not jumping to conclusions but how many more hits to the head can he take?
Zach will do what's best for his health and has a professional team around him that will insure that. At this stage we have zero information on his injury. Be cautious yes, cumulative impact yes but we cross those bridges when we come to them. To suggest an injuried star QB retires after an unknown severity of injury is jumping to a lot of early conclusions. I expect him to be back after a game or two. If he goes on the 6 game I will have moderate worry. Worst thing to do is rush him. Mtl did that and screwed up big time.
I hope Zach gives us another year but I also don't want to see him have health issues after an amazing career. Might be hard to avoid that entirely but need to mitigate it and do a risk assessment going forward.
Don't trivialize a head injury. A hamstring is far, far less serious than a head injury. No question, no debate.
Given the state of our O line, Collaros is ill advised to go back in there, he will be seriously injured. If the O line we fielded last game is the best we can muster, then I too would retire, it simply ain't worth it.
And guys criticizing Collaros for not being in civvies on the sidelines later don't get it either. Don't you think Collaros wants to be on the sidelines to support his teammates the way he always has?? He wasn't there because the injury dictated that he be in a dark, quiet environment. Are we getting the picture people?? Wake the heck up!!
Quote from: dd on July 19, 2025, 11:14:38 PMDon't trivialize a head injury. A hamstring is far, far less serious than a head injury. No question, no debate.
Given the state of our O line, Collaros is ill advised to go back in there, he will be seriously injured. If the O line we fielded last game is the best we can muster, then I too would retire, it simply ain't worth it.
And guys criticizing Collaros for not being in civvies on the sidelines later don't get it either. Don't you think Collaros wants to be on the sidelines to support his teammates the way he always has?? He wasn't there because the injury dictated that he be in a dark, quiet environment. Are we getting the picture people?? Wake the heck up!!
I never trivilzied the head injury. The reference to Mtl was to avoid rushing a player back from injury. You just making stuff up now.
Oline success will depend on how they gel and who gets healthy. Can't write em off yet. I expected OL challenges but I have faith in a few games it will be better than last two. Zach has proven in his time here to be able to remain healthy over long stretches.
You have no idea on the severity of his injury. Let's wait until we know before we hit the panic button.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 19, 2025, 10:41:45 PMZach will do what's best for his health and has a professional team around him that will insure that. At this stage we have zero information on his injury. Be cautious yes, cumulative impact yes but we cross those bridges when we come to them. To suggest an injuried star QB retires after an unknown severity of injury is jumping to a lot of early conclusions. I expect him to be back after a game or two. If he goes on the 6 game I will have moderate worry. Worst thing to do is rush him. Mtl did that and screwed up big time.
I hope Zach gives us another year but I also don't want to see him have health issues after an amazing career. Might be hard to avoid that entirely but need to mitigate it and do a risk assessment going forward.
Of course we're just speculating and I did say if the worst case scenario is off to the 6 game IR, he could be finished for the entire season just as easily.
I'm not even sure he sustained a concussion and that removing him was just protocol after he hit his head. Certainly a jolt but not necessarily a concussion.
I guess we'll see if he gets moved to IR or not. I suspect he won't practice in the early days and possibly not at all as they evaluate.
Hey, if Schoen's gone, how about Hollins? Isn't he still unsigned? He's around D.Mitchell talent level. Maybe less upside, more known-quantity.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 20, 2025, 02:09:21 AMOf course we're just speculating and I did say if the worst case scenario is off to the 6 game IR, he could be finished for the entire season just as easily.
I'm not even sure he sustained a concussion and that removing him was just protocol after he hit his head. Certainly a jolt but not necessarily a concussion.
I guess we'll see if he gets moved to IR or not. I suspect he won't practice in the early days and possibly not at all as they evaluate.
I was worried about the neck / head snap back and hit the turf. So hard to know. See how it goes.
What's the rules for 6 game? Wondering about coming off early. Thinking of Schoen as well in that regard.
When you come off early from the 6 game list, your salary counts against the cap.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 20, 2025, 07:42:14 AMHey, if Schoen's gone, how about Hollins? Isn't he still unsigned? He's around D.Mitchell talent level. Maybe less upside, more known-quantity.
Signed in Montreal IIRC?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 19, 2025, 08:51:17 AMI just watched the Zach hit on PVR and it's 100% concussion protocol. Basically a copy of what happened to T.Harris in SSK the other week.
He was seeing stars like Wile E. Coyote after he gets hit with an anvil.
I still don't understand why they don't put pillows or some hi-tech substitute on the outside back of Zach's helmet. This seems to be the #1 way QBs get concussed in the pocket: being pushed straight back and having the head snap and whack the turf.
They spend so much effort on that wacky loose part at the top of the head, but never the back. The top does nothing because they've taken the helmet-to-crown QB hits out of the game. They need like crumple zones for the back.
Based on the other times this has happened I would say WFC will be likely to keep Zach out the next 1-2 games.
Edit: per Riderforum, there is a product called VICIS helmet that seems to do what I'm thinking:
https://techweek.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/vicis-helmet.jpg
But for players like Zach I think you double the very back-of-head protection/padding. Need to make it like you're flopping down on your bed pillow really hard, not dropping your head on concrete.
There is a simple coaching fix for this - you have to coach your athletes *how* to be tackled.
Preface - I've coached rugby for closing on 30 years. Been to provincial championships several times coaching men's XVs and men's and women's 7s. Rugby allows no protective gear other than a mouth guard, so knowing how to protect yourself is important. Before we start coaching tackling, we coach how to fall. Eveey single practice for 2 weeks. It's simple - chin tucked to chest, shoulders rolled forward, arms crossed in front of chest - this stabilizes the head/neck/chin on the way down and drastically reduces the chance of bouncing your head off the turf, and crossing the arms in front of the body increases ball control during the tackle while preventing players from extending an arm to break rheir fall (which prevents elbow dislocations, shoukder separations, and broken wrists). We also coach players to try to fall in a "banana": points of ground contact should be knees/hips/shoulder, in that order.
Over the years, I've seen concussions rates and arm/shoulder injuries reduced from a couple a season when I started, to one injury every second or third season now. My athletes participated in a concussion study with Dr. Mike Ellis at the Pan Am Concussion Clinic for a few years, but I haven't had a concussion to report yet, despite annual baseline testing for my athletes.
Quote from: dd on July 19, 2025, 11:14:38 PMDon't trivialize a head injury. A hamstring is far, far less serious than a head injury. No question, no debate.
Given the state of our O line, Collaros is ill advised to go back in there, he will be seriously injured. If the O line we fielded last game is the best we can muster, then I too would retire, it simply ain't worth it.
And guys criticizing Collaros for not being in civvies on the sidelines later don't get it either. Don't you think Collaros wants to be on the sidelines to support his teammates the way he always has?? He wasn't there because the injury dictated that he be in a dark, quiet environment. Are we getting the picture people?? Wake the heck up!!
100% concur. Hammy's, you can get a cane if it is chronic and career ending. Concussions, there is no "cane" for the brain.
Quote from: Ridermania on July 20, 2025, 12:00:37 PMWhen you come off early from the 6 game list, your salary counts against the cap.
I thought there was a mulligan for the first one or two?
Quote from: VictorRomano on July 20, 2025, 01:40:26 PMThere is a simple coaching fix for this - you have to coach your athletes *how* to be tackled.
Preface - I've coached rugby for closing on 30 years. Been to provincial championships several times coaching men's XVs and men's and women's 7s. Rugby allows no protective gear other than a mouth guard, so knowing how to protect yourself is important. Before we start coaching tackling, we coach how to fall. Eveey single practice for 2 weeks. It's simple - chin tucked to chest, shoulders rolled forward, arms crossed in front of chest - this stabilizes the head/neck/chin on the way down and drastically reduces the chance of bouncing your head off the turf, and crossing the arms in front of the body increases ball control during the tackle while preventing players from extending an arm to break rheir fall (which prevents elbow dislocations, shoukder separations, and broken wrists). We also coach players to try to fall in a "banana": points of ground contact should be knees/hips/shoulder, in that order.
Over the years, I've seen concussions rates and arm/shoulder injuries reduced from a couple a season when I started, to one injury every second or third season now. My athletes participated in a concussion study with Dr. Mike Ellis at the Pan Am Concussion Clinic for a few years, but I haven't had a concussion to report yet, despite annual baseline testing for my athletes.
Holm talks about rugby quite a bit in his interview with Ed Tait, he explains why he prefers to use rugby tackling technique over the football method tackling.
If Collaros only misses one game then we escaped a much larger problem. Bombers face the Argos back to back and might be the weakest team in the league until injured players return. So if our back ups QB has to play, this would be the team I'd pick to play against.
OTOH, the Argo players must be angry and that can be a dangerous thing to face for us. We need to gain early momentum and not allow them to march for a score on their 1st drive.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 20, 2025, 05:48:45 PMIf Collaros only misses one game then we escaped a much larger problem. Bombers face the Argos back to back and might be the weakest team in the league until injured players return. So if our back ups QB has to play, this would be the team I'd pick to play against.
OTOH, the Argo players must be angry and that can be a dangerous thing to face for us. We need to gain early momentum and not allow them to march for a score on their 1st drive.
plus i think we kinda suck on saturdays vs the argos...seems like we lose more than we win recently...could be wrong
there is no easy game in the cfl.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 20, 2025, 04:52:54 PMI thought there was a mulligan for the first one or two?
Any player placed on the 6-game injured list can be removed early but the salary hit counts against the cap. There is no cap hit for any player who completes the full 6 games on the 6-game list.
The potential 'mulligan' as you say comes into play when a player is extended on the 6-game injured list for a second 6 games. 2 players can be removed from 6-game early without the cap hit for those incremental games . In these instances it would be games 7,8,9... that would be exempt (in addition to the initial 6 games).
This game was such an embarassment to the BB and it's fans. The BB haven't been beaten this bad in a long time. Someone has to step up and wake up the guys.
We lost Dobson cause we wouldn't pay him, our oline is weaker
we lost Ford same and our secondary is weaker
we lost Lawler same and our receiver group is weaker
I get we couldnt afford to keep all of them but
we didnt add an impact player to replace any of them
Yes, losing Ford is looking like a problem right now.
These coaches have sorted this out before... it just makes common sense that they will again.
The d backfield was good before Ford, and it will be after him as well.
Alexander to the six-game. MBT the starter in Montreal.
Quote from: VictorRomano on July 20, 2025, 01:40:26 PMThere is a simple coaching fix for this - you have to coach your athletes *how* to be tackled.
The techniques you describe don't really help with the pushed-straight-back on your back hit like Zach took (and often takes). The chin tuck may not be enough as the momentum of your heavy brain may overcome the neck muscles.
I always wondered, what if on this type of hit you let your neck go limp and try to get your head to hit FIRST, or simultaneous with your back. It would seem the rapid snap from fighting the G forces and losing causes more brain damage than a single evened-out full-body simultaneous hit. I'm just throwing out ideas.
IOW, either your neck is strong enough a chin tuck can succeed (maybe only possible for RB-built players), or don't even try.
Or tie a pillow to the back of the helmet...
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 20, 2025, 05:48:45 PMIf Collaros only misses one game then we escaped a much larger problem. Bombers face the Argos back to back and might be the weakest team in the league until injured players return.
TOR will go as Kelly goes. From everything we hear, Kelly should be back for 1 if not both the games against us. However, they've been doing the "next week probably!" thing for like 4 weeks now... so it could be Kelly is nowhere near ready and they are just "pulling a MOS" by lying to everyone.
If I was TOR, if Kelly wasn't 100%, I'd keep him out vs us. They don't need him to beat us, especially at home. And they'll love rubbing it in our noses that they can beat us again with half the players hurt or lost in FA, and under-.500 Arbuckle still at the helm. They should save Kelly for the far more critical divisional games.
Quote from: Pete on July 20, 2025, 11:18:54 PMwe lost Lawler same and our receiver group is weaker
I get we couldnt afford to keep all of them but
we didnt add an impact player to replace any of them
I'll let the Kenny debacle slide because on paper Schoen should be producing as much YD/TD as Kenny (see '22-'23) and who could know Schoen would become an always-knee-injured bust (which it appears he is doomed to be).
As for impact player: Vaughters. Telling you guys, watch him play. He's always around the ball and causing trouble, and is very hard to pin down and wash. But that doesn't help our O...