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Ottawa Redblacks without impactful DB Adrian Frye vs. Argos
By 3Down Staff -June 28, 2025
The Ottawa Redblacks will be without one of their most productive defenders for Sunday's matchup with the Toronto Argonauts.
Field-side cornerback Adrian Frye has been placed on the one-game injured list after missing practice on Friday with a knee injury. The second-year DB has been an impact performer through the first three games of the season, making 12 tackles and forcing three fumbles.
Alijah McGhee, who was projected as a starter on the outside in the preseason before being beaten out for the job, will step into the lineup. The 25-year-old played 11 games last season, making 44 defensive tackles, forcing one fumble, and snagging three interceptions.
Backup defensive back Bennett Williams (shoulder) and rookie Canadian defensive tackle Muftah Ageli (head) have also been placed on the one-game injured list. American DB Gavin Heslop will dress as insurance on the backend, while former first-round CFL Draft pick Anthony Bennett makes his first appearance for the Redblacks at defensive end.
Offensively, Ottawa has made no changes and Dustin Crum will start for the second straight game at quarterback while Dru Brown continues to battle a hip injury.
The Ottawa Redblacks (1-2) will host the Toronto Argonauts (0-3) at TD Place Stadium on Sunday, June 29 with kickoff slated for 7:00 p.m. EDT. The current weather forecast calls for mostly sunny conditions with a high of 26 degrees.
The game will be broadcast on TSN and RDS in Canada, CBS Sports Network in the United States, and can be streamed on CFL+ internationally. Radio listeners can tune in on TSN 1200 in Ottawa, TSN 1050 in Toronto, or 104.7 FM in Gatineau.
https://3downnation.com/2025/06/28/ottawa-redblacks-without-impactful-db-adrian-frye-vs-argos/
Award-winning returner Janarion Grant back for Toronto Argonauts vs. Redblacks
By 3Down Staff -June 28, 2025
The Toronto Argonauts are getting a big boost to their roster ahead of Sunday's matchup with the Ottawa Redblacks, just not the one many were hoping for.
While quarterback Chad Kelly will continue to languish on the injured list for a few more weeks, all-star kick returner Janarion Grant is set to make his first appearance of the 2025 season after missing the first three games with an ankle injury.
The CFL's reigning Most Outstanding Special Teams Player led the league in punt return yards (989), punt return average (14.8), and punt return touchdowns (three) in 2024. He also ranked second in kick return average (24.4), fourth in kick return yards (1,000), and returned one kickoff for a score.
Also back in the lineup after one-week absences are veteran receiver DaVaris Daniels and left guard Sage Doxtater, who kicks Ryan Hunter back to right tackle. Freshly signed Canadian defensive tackle J-Min Pelley will provide a physical element to the interior in his Double Blue debut.
It isn't all good news for the Boatmen, however. Strong-side linebacker Kenneth George Jr. has predictably been placed on the six-game injured list after a devastating knee injury suffered last week. Jarrett Martin will get the start in his first CFL game, while fellow American rookie Aaron Casey will provide additional depth at linebacker.
Defensive end Derek Parish (ankle) will miss this one on the one-game injured list, allowing Da'Marcus Johnson his first start off the edge. Celestin Haba and Greg Reaves will also dress to beef up the pass rush rotation.
Canadian linebacker Stephen Smith, American offensive tackle Hampton Ergle, American receiver Jake Herslow, Canadian defensive end Tyson Hergott, and American defensive tackle Atlias Bell have all been demoted to the practice roster. American receiver Calvin Turner Jr., who had been handling return duties, has quietly been released.
The Toronto Argonauts (0-3) will visit the Ottawa Redblacks (1-2) at TD Place Stadium on Sunday, June 29 with kickoff slated for 7:00 p.m. EDT. The current weather forecast calls for mostly sunny conditions with a high of 26 degrees.
The game will be broadcast on TSN and RDS in Canada, CBS Sports Network in the United States, and can be streamed on CFL+ internationally. Radio listeners can tune-in on TSN 1200 in Ottawa, TSN 1050 in Toronto, or 104.7 FM in Gatineau.
https://3downnation.com/2025/06/28/award-winning-returner-janarion-grant-back-for-toronto-argonauts-vs-redblack/
So Dinwiddie didn't fire anyone after all? The RET would have been released or PR'd anyhow with the return of Grant. Surely they can't pin all these losses on his head!
I guess he was just using the threat of firings to get the guys in line.
Maybe if they lose bigly in this game too he'll go full Kavis. I'd pay to see that!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 28, 2025, 10:37:46 PMSo Dinwiddie didn't fire anyone after all? The RET would have been released or PR'd anyhow with the return of Grant. Surely they can't pin all these losses on his head!
I guess he was just using the threat of firings to get the guys in line.
Maybe if they lose bigly in this game too he'll go full Kavis. I'd pay to see that!
As the article above says, 4 players were moved to the practice roster and 1 was released. So, he did do something.
Quote from: gobombersgo on June 28, 2025, 11:07:37 PMAs the article above says, 4 players were moved to the practice roster and 1 was released. So, he did do something.
33 George was injured, so he doesn't count. The RET out because of Grant.
Pretty much everyone else is nobody, and some are purely due to starters returning from IR anyhow.
No one of major note was shown the door, so there really was no full-Kavis follow-through. If you want to send a message you need to bench/cut a major player who is just coasting and costing you games. Just "punishing" NAT STers and IMP backups won't cut it.
I wanted to see fireworks! Well, maybe we'll get them if they lose to Crum tomorrow!
Getting grant back is a big boost for the Argos, they ll have instant field position on every punt and kick return. That said, both offences will struggle given the starting QBs. Can't believe how many #1 Qb s are out right now!!
I hope the starting quarterbacks get back on the field right away.
These backups, other than Streveler, are quite bad.
Maier was as bad as ever. How can that guy be the best option available?
MBT.... Ouch. Funny comment he made in an interview
" I'm at a point in my career where I know I'm the best quarterback in the CFL when I'm on," Bethel-Thompson told The Gazette by telephone from his Los Angeles-area home on Wednesday.
Read more at: https://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/article629439.html#storylink=cpy" 😀
Masoli...not helped much by his teammates and the play caller, but still... bad.
Crum.... Tries hard, has guts, nope.
Arbuckle .... MVP! MVP!
Harris and Dru were hurt while in the pocket, Rourke... near the pocket, pulled up lame.
Do t remember how Kelly got hurt.
Get well soon.
Quote from: markf on June 29, 2025, 05:15:33 PMI hope the starting quarterbacks get back on the field right away.
These backups, other than Streveler, are quite bad.
Maier was as bad as ever. How can that guy be the best option available?
MBT.... Ouch.
Masoli...not helped much by his teammates and the play caller, but still... bad.
Crum.... Tries hard, has guts, nope.
Arbuckle .... MVP! MVP!
Harris and Dru were hurt while in the pocket, Rourke... near the pocket, pulled up lame.
Do t remember how Kelly got hurt.
i put Maier and Strev on the same level. let's hope we never see Strev starting another game for us.
Quote from: markf on June 29, 2025, 05:15:33 PMDo t remember how Kelly got hurt.
Isn't Kelly still hurt from the playoff game against Montreal when he busted his leg?
Quote from: J5V on June 29, 2025, 08:58:34 PMIsn't Kelly still hurt from the playoff game against Montreal when he busted his leg?
He broke his ankle at the end of a Qb scramble where he could have/should have slid, all i remember is it was gross to look at!!
Quote from: J5V on June 29, 2025, 08:58:34 PMIsn't Kelly still hurt from the playoff game against Montreal when he busted his leg?
Seems yes
Dave Naylor
@TSNDaveNaylor
Chad Kelly's injury is to his tibia. Surgery tonight in Montreal. Anticipated 6-9 month rehab.#CFL #Argos
4:27 PM · Nov 9, 2024
·
Just before the Montreal loss to Hamilton it was strange to hear the TSN panel debating on which was the best of the undefeated teams. Davis Sanchez actually admitted that when it comes to the Bombers they are almost bored talking about them because they are always good. He then said he was changing his vote from Montreal to Winnipeg after our latest victory. Enoch picked the Als and Kate picked the Riders.
This morning I was scanning the sports headlines and it seemed like when other teams win it's because they played well but when the Bombers win it's because the other team blew it and didn't take advantage of their opportunities. I really get the sense that the media, especially TSN, is sick of the Bombers and their "5 straight Grey Cup appearances". The only one I heard give the Bombers any credit in that regard was Farhan Lalji who said we had built a "dynasty".
Quote from: J5V on June 29, 2025, 09:28:25 PMJust before the Montreal loss to Hamilton it was strange to hear the TSN panel debating on which was the best of the undefeated teams. Davis Sanchez actually admitted that when it comes to the Bombers they are almost bored talking about them because they are always good. He then said he was changing his vote from Montreal to Winnipeg after our latest victory. Enoch picked the Als and Kate picked the Riders.
This morning I was scanning the sports headlines and it seemed like when other teams win it's because they played well but when the Bombers win it's because the other team blew it and didn't take advantage of their opportunities. I really get the sense that the media, especially TSN, is sick of the Bombers and their "5 straight Grey Cup appearances". The only one I heard give the Bombers any credit in that regard was Farhan Lalji who said we had built a "dynasty".
That's funny, because watching the games it looks like it's the Riders who keep winning because their opponents keep giving the games away (plus a soft schedule).
Ya, the Riders have had a soft schedule to start, but the Riders are for real, especially when they get all their starters, especially Harris and Emelius back. They'll give us a go for 1st place. Much talked about BC looks average at best, even when Rourke gets back, they are far from a powerhouse.
Quote from: dd on June 29, 2025, 11:00:04 PMYa, the Riders have had a soft schedule to start, but the Riders are for real, especially when they get all their starters, especially Harris and Emelius back. They'll give us a go for 1st place. Much talked about BC looks average at best, even when Rourke gets back, they are far from a powerhouse.
I can't wait to play them although I dread going into Regina.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 29, 2025, 04:16:45 AMI wanted to see fireworks! Well, maybe we'll get them if they lose to Crum tomorrow!
Dinwiddie tried to pull back a lot of the negative comments he made towards his team in public.
The Bombers have only beaten BC & EDM, two of the 3 worst teams in the league this year.
Quote from: J5V on June 29, 2025, 11:14:08 PMDinwiddie tried to pull back a lot of the negative comments he made towards his team in public.
He had to. Ya he was upset after the last loss, but you can't have your Coach airing the teams dirty laundry in public, that has to be done behind close doors and a team only affair.
punt fest in the nations capital...now one blocked..
oh no. knee right to the helmetless head - ouch
How did this guy beat us in the GC?
Quote from: J5V on June 29, 2025, 11:40:19 PMHow did this guy beat us in the GC?
Because all three phases of our game laid eggs and our coaching was weak
holy Hannah Red Blacks are awful.
crum takes way too long to figure out what to do.
everyone takes a turn doing something stupid.
their D coach was Argo D coach last season. what the heck.
There is no reason to think Bob Dyce is going to take them anywhere at all
they have some good players. they could be in this game. but someone always blows it.
don't know, but I guess that's bad coaching.
Quote from: TBURGESS on June 29, 2025, 11:18:55 PMThe Bombers have only beaten BC & EDM, two of the 3 worst teams in the league this year.
Great. Thanks. We were talking about the Riders.
Quote from: Jesse on June 30, 2025, 12:00:57 AMGreat. Thanks. We were talking about the Riders.
chances of that guy making a positive comment about the bombers are microscopically small.
why follow the team? I don't get it.
Quote from: TBURGESS on June 29, 2025, 11:18:55 PMThe Bombers have only beaten BC & EDM, two of the 3 worst teams in the league this year.
They are the worst because we beat them. :D
Quote from: TBURGESS on June 29, 2025, 11:18:55 PMThe Bombers have only beaten BC & EDM, two of the 3 worst teams in the league this year.
They are only 2 of the 3 worst teams because they have 3 losses against the Bombers. lol
How do we know they are 2 of the worst teams? Need to let the schedule play out for a few more weeks.
At this point I'd say BC and Edm are 2 of the 6 worst teams.
Quote from: markf on June 30, 2025, 12:06:12 AMchances of that guy making a positive comment about the bombers are microscopically small.
why follow the team? I don't get it.
TBurgess always thinks he is smarter than the class. We let him think that so to keep the peace on here.
On another note Redblacks sure know how to play losing football.
What a circus of joke play after joke play.
Geno Lewis is a top receiver who yes dropped a ball
RB D Gettin gashed now.
Come on Ottawa you need pts here
Another Argo D man down. Chatfield.
Dyce challenging
Getting desperate Dyce.
Nothing there
Dyce comes up snakes eyes. Nyce.
Wow I don't agree, surprised, shows what I know
Ott OL is the worst kind of Swiss cheese.
What a disgrace that Crum was allowed to play after that violent helmet to helmet hit.
And that the Toronto player was not ejected.
Five yard penalty for brain damage.
BC & Edm aren't only losing to Wpg.
BC got destroyed by Skn.
Edm hasn't won yet, and they also got beat by BC.
Toronto hasn't won yet, but they are beating up on Ott right now who only won in Cgy because of the weather.
Fire Dyce tonight.
Quote from: TBURGESS on June 30, 2025, 12:45:53 AMBC & Edm aren't only losing to Wpg.
BC got destroyed by Skn.
Edm hasn't won yet, and they also got beat by BC.
Toronto hasn't won yet, but they are beating up on Ott right now who only won in Cgy because of the weather.
Ok we get it, it absolutely pains you to give MOS and the Blue Bombers credit where credit is due.
We can only beat trash teams, lol
Crum just hangs onto the ball for ever. That and a combination of a poor OL is a recipe for disaster.
Dyce needs to go.
Slywka is having an amazing game lol
Sly guy is putting up a reel of highlights by himself
Quote from: markf on June 30, 2025, 12:54:43 AMFire Dyce tonight.
agreed he cannot get out of his own way as a HC.
What is Drew Brown thinking? ;)
"What kinda **** did I get myself into?!"
Quote from: The Zipp on June 30, 2025, 12:58:14 AMSly guy is putting up a reel of highlights by himself
200 yards return yards and two touchdowns.
Chez still staying with the Bombers being the best team and making the point that he doesn't see a weakness on the team and the proof was the game Strev played where this team didn't miss a beat.
Geno Lewis drop was the announcement of Dyce being let go.
What was the Reinbold bombers like? Was it like this?
Can't remember.
Quote from: J5V on June 30, 2025, 01:00:14 AMChez still staying with the Bombers being the best team and making the point that he doesn't see a weakness on the team and the proof was the game Strev played where this team didn't miss a beat.
We handily beat a Rourke led BC team with Strev, STREV for gods sake!
But I guess Tburgess does not give a crap about that one. :D
It is to bad I like the Ottawa organization. I like there style but unfortunately they consistently hire poor personnel.
Quote from: The Zipp on June 30, 2025, 12:58:14 AMSly guy is putting up a reel of highlights by himself
Nah he needs one more 100 yarder to make plays of the week :P
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on June 30, 2025, 01:00:08 AM200 yards return yards and two touchdowns.
The effort level by the RBs has been awful on both of Slywka's returns. They just gave up and let him run it all the way back, twice. That's definitely a way to kill your coach.
That was a crazy catch
36 hands it to the Argo. lmao
Finally the Rod Blacks make a nice play.
Only left with Crumbs, Crum
I'd quote Borat but it would be breaking the COC. :D
Addison hurt his shoulder again? He is in on the 3rd and 1 so must be ok
It was taped
TOUCH DOWN for heavens good graces
Grant ain't doing much.
TO suddenly trying there best to give the game away.
Arbuckle throws a hanger to Ungerer and the WR gets crushed. Arbuckle, what a joke!
Hey Redblacks. Win this game and save your coaches job, EH!
Coxie is outstanding
Quote from: Blueforlife on June 30, 2025, 01:27:18 AMCoxie is outstanding
Yeah, I have to stop overlooking him in Fantasy.
Not looking very good Redblacks. I feel sorry for their fans. That's a number of years now of ugly football. Same with Edmonton. I don't like it. Too much sustained disparity.
They need to hit the reset button in Ottawa. Dice has got to go and they need a better GM to improve their talent pool.
I know Brown is hurt but they could have had either fajardo or MBT as their #2, and while they aren't great, they're better than crumb, who will never amount to anything, he's Caleb Evans V2.
Quote from: bomb squad on June 30, 2025, 01:59:08 AMNot looking very good Redblacks. I feel sorry for their fans. That's a number of years now of ugly football. Same with Edmonton. I don't like it. Too much sustained disparity.
Yep, before the start of the season every team looks great on paper, once the season begins 6 out of 9 play badly. Poorly played football games hurt the CFL brand, especially when so many starting QB's are out.
I'm really getting mad that the CFL basically just ignores illegal participation. So many examples I'm seeing.
2Q11:56 on the strip fumble & huge TOR fumble return TD: TOR #23 attempts to tackle Pimpleton, whiffs swings all the way OOB he's actually on the other side of the line! Keeps gunning for the carrier and actually punches the ball out while he's still on the rail!
No, #23 was not pushed or forced OOB, it was his own momentum and whiff and he just ran out of space.
HOLY SMOKES does no one have eyes. Does command not look at this? Does Dyce not have spotters and tablet review to challenge (if challengeable)? All turnovers are reviewed!
Shameful. If I was an OTT fan I'd be having conniptions. Luckily I picked TOR... but still. "Integrity of the Game" is actually a directive to command in the rule book!
And ref #33 is sitting 10Y away staring intently at everything the whole time. Cough cough. Clueless.
Quote from: dd on June 29, 2025, 11:22:41 PMHe had to. Ya he was upset after the last loss, but you can't have your Coach airing the teams dirty laundry in public
I have no problems with dirty laundry airing... as long as you don't single out any one player.
The Kavis "consequences" was the best post-game of all time. Ya, it didn't help their team because they were soooo bad that year and nothing was going to save them, but it does put the fear of God into the players to start trying instead of coasting.
Quote from: TBURGESS on June 29, 2025, 11:18:55 PMThe Bombers have only beaten BC & EDM, two of the 3 worst teams in the league this year.
Right, but BC & EDM were pegged by many pundits in FA/TC/PS to go to the cup! Also, BC didn't know they were bad before they faced us, and EDM was hoping they weren't bad.
When you face bad teams early they are often more difficult to beat because they still have morale thinking they have a shot.
Also, maybe both teams suddenly figure it out next week and win every remaining game. Who knows. It's still early days. I wouldn't write off our schedule as "weak" so far, in any event.
Quote from: J5V on June 29, 2025, 11:14:08 PMDinwiddie tried to pull back a lot of the negative comments he made towards his team in public.
Haha, weenie. That probably means Boss Man Pinball had a little chat with him. In that situation Pinball is definitely the carrot, whilst Dinwiddie the stick.
Quote from: J5V on June 29, 2025, 09:28:25 PMI really get the sense that the media, especially TSN, is sick of the Bombers and their "5 straight Grey Cup appearances".
Oh, better believe it. Every single person who has any ounce of interest in the CFL is sick of the Bombers. Minus WPG fans of course.
Remember how we felt when CGY went to like 5 cups in 7 years (or whatever it was)? Oh how I hated them and how boring the post-season was. The only reason anyone watched the GC was to see how CGY would blow it when they were twice as good as any team the East ever put out.
Ya, that's how everyone feels about us right now.
Quote from: markf on June 29, 2025, 05:15:33 PMHarris and Dru were hurt while in the pocket, Rourke... near the pocket, pulled up lame.
Do t remember how Kelly got hurt.
Rourke got damaged during a scramble. Only felt the bad effects on a following play. Kelly got hurt on a scramble 15Y+ run.
Harris was a fine-able pushdown concussion, so doesn't really count because it was retaliation, not a normal play.
Dru I think also got hurt on a scramble? But I don't remember... that one was hard to pinpoint? I'll have to go back and find it.
You're trying to prove it's the pocket that's more dangerous, but I'm not bitin'!! In the CFL the scramblers get injured more.
Quote from: Blueforlife on June 30, 2025, 12:14:26 AMGeno Lewis is a top receiver who yes dropped a ball
Like another top-2-paid REC we know... name starts with K, ends in Y.
That said, Geno hasn't done squat all season so far, of course without a real TD for most of it, but still. $300k RECs are supposed to be as good as NFL ones. And they wouldn't drop that short heater.
Quote from: Blueforlife on June 30, 2025, 12:23:52 AMWow I don't agree, surprised, shows what I know
Ya, that late 2nd Q DPI challenge is basically completely at odds with command's "2024 memo". Lapo knows the deal. You guys know the deal.
a) uncalled DPI is basically impossible to overturn, so few examples in '24 after the memo
b) early jersey tug didn't impeded Geno at all, even though the tug was obvious (but let go quickly), I say no DPI there
c) right arm twisting the REC right during the catch was very minor, and can't tell if it's just Geno's moving himself that way, I say no DPI there
d) did they take both b & c and say combined they are DPI? that's all I got here...
e) or are they taking pity on a badly-losing OTT team at home?
I'm shocked they overturned it, and am very disappointed they are moving the needle yet again. Riderforum agrees too. Command setting new early-season precedent. Ugh.
Quote from: markf on June 30, 2025, 12:43:16 AMWhat a disgrace that Crum was allowed to play after that violent helmet to helmet hit.
And that the Toronto player was not ejected.
Five yard penalty for brain damage.
Ya, that was pretty shameful. Talk about head hunting! That's a let's-knock-this-qb-out-of-the-game play right there.
Fine incoming. But doesn't help Crum's brain bruising. They need to add stuff like that to the "2nd degree spearing" rules. Bracing for a head first hit should be as bad as diving with your helmet.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on June 30, 2025, 01:00:08 AM200 yards return yards and two touchdowns.
So on the 2nd blocked FG (TD) I thought for sure TOR was aligned illegally due to the post-2022 stacking-one-side new rule.
But the replay shows the snapper was not the middle guy, thus the rule doesn't apply, because you only get stacking protection if you align evenly.
So my question is: why wouldn't OTT always align evenly? Why would any team ever align unevenly and purposely give up the super useful stacking protection?
So what does TOR do? They pull a 2022 GC and stack the one side and beat the gaps with sheer numbers. Ugh (for OTT).
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 30, 2025, 07:07:50 AMBut the replay shows the snapper was not the middle guy, thus the rule doesn't apply, because you only get stacking protection if you align evenly.
Hey, wait a second... a FG attempt will never have team A aligned evenly! You have 2 guys back as the battery, and 1 LS, that leaves 9 guys left over to spread "evenly" on either side of the LS...
Uh, how do you make the odd number of guys left "even"?
As such, shouldn't 5/4 be considered "even" for the purposes of this new rule, which was introduce SOLELY FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE 2022 GC FG BLOCK?
If I'm right, the 2nd block in this game should have been called back. If I'm wrong, then this rule doesn't ever apply to FGs at all and only will protect on punts?
Quote from: J5V on June 30, 2025, 01:05:26 AMThe effort level by the RBs has been awful on both of Slywka's returns. They just gave up and let him run it all the way back, twice. That's definitely a way to kill your coach.
The second one where the big guy dances around the EZ back & forth like 4 times was particularly bad.
I like to believe WFC would have covered that. Watch our DT / bigger guys on every FG as they run down the field to setup precise lanes in case the FG misses. You need to setup a "net" and close in. You need the bigger guys to take up their spots quickly to be useful, so they aren't relied on for speed. Then the mobile guys can't leave the edges open.
And it's not like the returner was Grant: it was that really big (new superstar) guy! (That's kind of what I think we wanted from our "seal" when we had him.)
Quote from: Blueforlife on June 30, 2025, 01:12:50 AMAddison hurt his shoulder again? He is in on the 3rd and 1 so must be ok
Must have been dislocated and they popped it back in? Or a stinger. He was as good as new after that. Weird.
4Q11:33 Deep shot by Crum, Dyce thinking of challenging. That TOR player's feet were 10X more "accidental DPI" than the nonsense they flagged in our game. Blind refs again.
But it was clear as day on video, guaranteed win in challenge, assuming you can challenge "accidental".
But 11 min left: do you need to keep the refs honest for 11 more min? Even if you win, it's the 2nd challenge and you are then out. But this is the critical point in the game where you need to get another score.
Ah, lucky for Dyce there was a missed facemask on the next play. But still, he is out of challenges now... so why not challenge the ADPI and avoid this?
Quote from: TBURGESS on June 30, 2025, 01:39:41 AMFIFY
You're forgetting we beat BC when Rourke was in for basically an entire half. IIRC we were already clobbering them before he left.
So was BC good then or not? Because I can tell you for a fact that BC is gonna win a ton of games this season when Rourke is the QB.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 30, 2025, 07:58:17 AMYou're forgetting we beat BC when Rourke was in for basically an entire half. IIRC we were already clobbering them before he left.
So was BC good then or not? Because I can tell you for a fact that BC is gonna win a ton of games this season when Rourke is the QB.
I'm not forgetting anything. Rourke will fix
some of their offence problems, but BC won't be any good unless they can stop the run.
Who do you think the two worst teams are?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 30, 2025, 05:48:56 AMRourke got damaged during a scramble. Only felt the bad effects on a following play. Kelly got hurt on a scramble 15Y+ run.
Harris was a fine-able pushdown concussion, so doesn't really count because it was retaliation, not a normal play.
Dru I think also got hurt on a scramble? But I don't remember... that one was hard to pinpoint? I'll have to go back and find it.
You're trying to prove it's the pocket that's more dangerous, but I'm not bitin'!! In the CFL the scramblers get injured more.
😀. Insert baited hook gif
Dru got clobbered by Sask no 6 when an Ottawa O lineman decided to let him have a free run, and went to block someone else who was already blocked.
Not sure how you know when Rourke got hurt... he just pulled up lame after throwing a pass. Although I'm going by memory which is highly fallible.
CFL Nobody got hurt more than Michael Reilly, and Damon Allen played 23 years.
How bout Drew Willie? Pocket passer right? He probably still has pain from the beatings he took.same with Matt Nichols.
Being a qb is bad for the health.
Quote from: markf on July 20, 1975, 09:56:33 PMNot sure how you know when Rourke got hurt... he just pulled up lame after throwing a pass. Although I'm going by memory which is highly fallible.
Quote from: TBURGESS on June 30, 2025, 01:04:06 PMWho do you think the two worst teams are?
That's a near impossible question to answer at the moment because most teams have an injured starting QB, and only got 0-2 games played with the starter. It also is more confusing by the apparent garbage teams being the most highly touted in PS.
In my mind (and hunch) the basement is still the same as last year: HAM, OTT, EDM. I think CGY has leveled up through some magic in FA, but the jury's still out. BC is still entirely dependent on Rourke being 2022 superman. If he does that, they'll likely get close to the WDF. If not, they are worse than last year. TOR will be EDF material once Kelly returns because the coaches are too darn good.
But, really, anything could happen this season. The key is we try to stay on top, win the W, and are one game away from the GC again. A GC where the fans put us over the top.
Quote from: markf on June 30, 2025, 01:25:38 PMNot sure how you know when Rourke got hurt... he just pulled up lame after throwing a pass. Although I'm going by memory which is highly fallible.
As Junkie illustrated with the vid, it was the play(s) before. I knew this must be the case because the oblique doesn't just injure itself, like a knee can do. It takes trauma to ruin your oblique. I'll have to go find the play now to see if he was static in the pocket at the time or running, but my hazy memory and gut say it was scrambling/running, otherwise why would the guy be tackling his feet?
Quote from: markf on June 30, 2025, 01:25:38 PMBeing a qb is bad for the health.
That we can all agree on. I guess that's why we pay them the big bucks.
Turns out illegal participation that caused the fumble/TD is challengeable. So refs blew it, command blew it, AND the HC blew it. On something I noticed instantly on the live shot, and only a blind orc wouldn't notice on the 4 replays.
Dyce probably lost the game right there.
P.S. Disappointed only Riderfans forum & me noticed this. BB forum asleep! No one cares! Gotta improve the officiating for all games, and not just care about the Blue & Gold ones!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 01, 2025, 02:31:18 AMTurns out illegal participation that caused the fumble/TD is challengeable. So refs blew it, command blew it, AND the HC blew it. On something I noticed instantly on the live shot, and only a blind orc wouldn't notice on the 4 replays.
Dyce probably lost the game right there.
P.S. Disappointed only Riderfans forum & me noticed this. BB forum asleep! No one cares! Gotta improve the officiating for all games, and not just care about the Blue & Gold ones!
Bit of both I suppose. I, for example, have absolutely no clue what these officials/CC are going to call a penalty from one game to the next and it's getting worse. One thing my confirmation bias does tell me though, repeatedly, is that the Argos in the East and the Riders in the West get the benefit of the doubt most times and blatantly so sometimes. Ottawa may have been their own worst enemy in that game but that doesn't mean they also didn't get screwed over.
When a player goes out of bounds after contact with an opponent he is permitted to return to the field of play. Yes, contact resulting from a weak tackle attempt does count as contact with an opponent.
The player must reestablish himself in the field of play before participating in the play. It appears as though the Argos player is taking his 2nd step in bounds as he punches the ball out.
Yes, RedBlacks fans were talking about the possibility of illegal participation. Most agree that the Argos player was permitted to return to the field. There was more debate about whether he satisfied the 2nd aspect of the play.
Quote from: Stats Junkie on July 01, 2025, 04:43:14 AMWhen a player goes out of bounds after contact with an opponent he is permitted to return to the field of play. Yes, contact resulting from a weak tackle attempt does count as contact with an opponent.
That's insane. So if you're a D and you're about to run OOB because you didn't control your run/judgement enough you just have to tap your hand on a team A guy, even a little finger, and you get a "get out of OOB/IP free" card?
In all the years I've been watching it's always been explained by TSN booth and rando dudes at the games that you have to be forced out by the opponent to be allowed to return after OOB without IP.
I guess that's the last time I trust TSN.
Looks like the rule does say "without contact with an opponent", so by the letter I guess his hand-tap whiff does qualify. But frankly I think that's ridiculous. He didn't go out because of that whiff, he went out because he misjudged the tackle. Seems strange to "reward" him for it.
I'm curious, is this really the spirit and intent of the rule? Or were the writers thinking more along the lines of "forced out"? What do other leagues say?
Seems like a disaster for the ref standing there watching a near-OOB scrum and trying figure all of this out.
Quote from: Stats Junkie on July 01, 2025, 04:43:14 AMThe player must reestablish himself in the field of play before participating in the play. It appears as though the Argos player is taking his 2nd step in bounds as he punches the ball out.
Yes, RedBlacks fans were talking about the possibility of illegal participation. Most agree that the Argos player was permitted to return to the field. There was more debate about whether he satisfied the 2nd aspect of the play.
Yes, like much of the rulebook, "re-establishing" seems a bit hazy. "One foot in bounds and no contact OOB", which I guess applies here. TOR #23 has one foot IB and is just lifting his 2nd foot from OOB when he punches the ball out.
Here's the thing, I'm sure #23 isn't a CFL rules genius, and am pretty sure it was sheer luck he touched the dude before going OOB, and got that one foot IB before punching it out. Had the OTT guy been closer to the rail, I'm sure #23 would have punched it out while still OOB and taken the penalty.
Thanks for the clarification and guidance. It is much appreciated.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 01, 2025, 06:51:24 AMI'm curious, is this really the spirit and intent of the rule? Or were the writers thinking more along the lines of "forced out"?
In 2010 the rule stated a player could return to the field of play if he went OB after contact with another player. On the play below 👇 it was interpreted to include contact with a teammate.
The rules committee determined that the intent of the rule was contact with an opponent and the rule was amended for the 2011 season.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 01, 2025, 01:33:54 AMThat's a near impossible question to answer at the moment because most teams have an injured starting QB, and only got 0-2 games played with the starter. It also is more confusing by the apparent garbage teams being the most highly touted in PS.
In my mind (and hunch) the basement is still the same as last year: HAM, OTT, EDM. I think CGY has leveled up through some magic in FA, but the jury's still out. BC is still entirely dependent on Rourke being 2022 superman. If he does that, they'll likely get close to the WDF. If not, they are worse than last year. TOR will be EDF material once Kelly returns because the coaches are too darn good.
But, really, anything could happen this season. The key is we try to stay on top, win the W, and are one game away from the GC again. A GC where the fans put us over the top.
The question isn't who will be the worst teams by the end of the season or who it will be when they have their starting QB back. It's who are the worst teams right now. The power rankings have it as Edm & BC & I agree.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 01, 2025, 06:51:24 AMThat's insane. So if you're a D and you're about to run OOB because you didn't control your run/judgement enough you just have to tap your hand on a team A guy, even a little finger, and you get a "get out of OOB/IP free" card?
In all the years I've been watching it's always been explained by TSN booth and rando dudes at the games that you have to be forced out by the opponent to be allowed to return after OOB without IP.
I guess that's the last time I trust TSN.
Looks like the rule does say "without contact with an opponent", so by the letter I guess his hand-tap whiff does qualify. But frankly I think that's ridiculous. He didn't go out because of that whiff, he went out because he misjudged the tackle. Seems strange to "reward" him for it.
I'm curious, is this really the spirit and intent of the rule? Or were the writers thinking more along the lines of "forced out"? What do other leagues say?
Seems like a disaster for the ref standing there watching a near-OOB scrum and trying figure all of this out.
Yes, like much of the rulebook, "re-establishing" seems a bit hazy. "One foot in bounds and no contact OOB", which I guess applies here. TOR #23 has one foot IB and is just lifting his 2nd foot from OOB when he punches the ball out.
Here's the thing, I'm sure #23 isn't a CFL rules genius, and am pretty sure it was sheer luck he touched the dude before going OOB, and got that one foot IB before punching it out. Had the OTT guy been closer to the rail, I'm sure #23 would have punched it out while still OOB and taken the penalty.
Thanks for the clarification and guidance. It is much appreciated.
The other question is can a player actually intentionally advance himself down the field while out of bounds and then reestablish himself? Bit of that here too.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 01, 2025, 02:31:18 AMTurns out illegal participation that caused the fumble/TD is challengeable. So refs blew it, command blew it, AND the HC blew it. On something I noticed instantly on the live shot, and only a blind orc wouldn't notice on the 4 replays.
Dyce probably lost the game right there.
P.S. Disappointed only Riderfans forum & me noticed this. BB forum asleep! No one cares! Gotta improve the officiating for all games, and not just care about the Blue & Gold ones!
Have you ever reffed a game of football in your life, or do you just sit with your PVR and re-watch games and criticize others?? Officiating a game is not as easy at is seems from your lazy boy chair.
Quote from: dd on July 01, 2025, 08:12:05 PMHave you ever reffed a game of football in your life, or do you just sit with your PVR and re-watch games and criticize others?? Officiating a game is not as easy at is seems from your lazy boy chair.
Lol -- It's definitely a PVR watch it 400 times in slow-mo, then spend 20 minutes consulting the rule book kinda thing.
Not saying there was an error here but, for the record, reffing gets better as the year goes on. The reason is the league has way more refs in rotation until labour day. This is important from a development point of view. Then the best testing refs get to go from September on. No one is born a good pro football referee and unlike the US, we don't have a pipeline of really strong referees that come from other levels of football. The jump from high school and CIS to the CFL is ginormous.
Quote from: Stats Junkie on July 01, 2025, 03:33:07 PMThe rules committee determined that the intent of the rule was contact with an opponent and the rule was amended for the 2011 season.
Cool example. We all know that clip for it's "no yards" gotchas -- yet there was an arguably more egregious IP problem too. And like the current situation, the IP part of it is ignored by the TSN booth, LOL.
I think the booth does a disservice to the fans when they fail to point out legitimate questions/answers on plays: like "there's no IP here even though it looks like it, because...". They do ok educating fans over time, but they could do so much better... especially when they tell the country a blatantly wrong thing ("must be forced out") for a decade.
Quote from: TBURGESS on July 01, 2025, 03:44:11 PMThe question isn't who will be the worst teams by the end of the season or who it will be when they have their starting QB back. It's who are the worst teams right now. The power rankings have it as Edm & BC & I agree.
Ok, if based on just through week 4, with week 4 rosters... I'd lump OTT in there. They will win nothing except a slime & grime game with Crum. I think both EDM and BC look stronger than OTT on paper/AR at the moment.
It also would seem MTL is pretty weak on O without Alexander. Did you see their run game get nothing at all against a weak opponent? Eye opener. No escape-threat from the QB means no run game for them. And even their D couldn't save them.
Quote from: dd on July 01, 2025, 08:12:05 PMHave you ever reffed a game of football in your life, or do you just sit with your PVR and re-watch games and criticize others?? Officiating a game is not as easy at is seems from your lazy boy chair.
No, of course not. But how I spent my life to date has no bearing on my ability to try to understand the rules (both written and implied by precedent) to increase my enjoyment of the game.
It's like a lawyer who works criminal cases: he never wrote any law, nor was he ever a judge, but he learns what is written and implied and tries to understand to apply that to what's going on around him.
It often seems you think your experience as a ref affords you some secret knowledge or understanding that us lay-fans are forbidden from (or incapable of) learning. I posit that is not the case, and should not be the case, otherwise you'll have to start only allowing ex-players or ex-refs into the stands.
If you're the rules genius, then you should spend your efforts teaching the lay-fan, not admonishing them for asking questions or grappling with infrequently-applied rules, such as in this case.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 02, 2025, 12:06:56 AMLol -- It's definitely a PVR watch it 400 times in slow-mo, then spend 20 minutes consulting the rule book kinda thing.
100%. Because that's all I have, and the best I can do is learn the rules better, and then help the next guy learn them too. Exactly as we've done here in this thread about the IP.
There's nothing wrong with being wrong, and learning what's right, and admitting it!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 02, 2025, 02:07:29 AMNo, of course not. But how I spent my life to date has no bearing on my ability to try to understand the rules (both written and implied by precedent) to increase my enjoyment of the game.
It's like a lawyer who works criminal cases: he never wrote any law, nor was he ever a judge, but he learns what is written and implied and tries to understand to apply that to what's going on around him.
It often seems you think your experience as a ref affords you some secret knowledge or understanding that us lay-fans are forbidden from (or incapable of) learning. I posit that is not the case, and should not be the case, otherwise you'll have to start only allowing ex-players or ex-refs into the stands.
If you're the rules genius, then you should spend your efforts teaching the lay-fan, not admonishing them for asking questions or grappling with infrequently-applied rules, such as in this case.
It's more an understanding of trying to know and apply the rule in real time, at field level, from across the length of a football field.
Not from witnessing the many close up angles on your tv screen.
Quote from: Jesse on July 02, 2025, 02:52:03 AMNot from witnessing the many close up angles on your tv screen.
For sure, and I try to take that into account every time. That's why I almost always blame command more than the refs. Although if it's 2 guys in space causing the issue, I like to hope the refs can get things right more often than not (cough cough Demski DPI tip ball that cost us a game last year by ref #22).
Yes, I understand reffing is hard, and thankless, and crappy pay. But no fan goes through life never getting aggravated at the zebras.