Blue Bombers Forum

new sideline reporter for TSN and former NFL player Luke Wilson went off on the CFL last night on his twitter account, he made some decent points - lots to discuss and digest here:



I told you I would be honest and tell the truth about the CFL.

If the goal is to grow the game and attract a younger demographic, the on field product of the Sask/Toronto game is just not going to cut it. That game was hot garbage...Let me be clear in saying that I don't think it's a talent thing. This isn't a shot at the players. But that game was really bad.

Let's start with the obvious. There were 29 penalties for 307 yards. It was absurd. (Not a shot at the refs either). That in itself is enough to ruin any kind of football game. It was a tough watch.

Next let's go to the end of the game; it's junk ball. Yes I said it. Junk football. First off, Sask misses a chip shot 33 yard FG, which would have basically sealed the win. Instead they are awarded a point for missing it (ball wasn't returnable/didn't land in the field of play). They then kick off and give up a 9 play TD drive where there is 1 penalty, 1 incompletion and every other play is a tackle in bounds. No time outs are used and it took 1:39. There are no "big plays"either, it's mainly check downs. Nothing could be more gimmicky than that. You've basically eliminated any sort of "2 min drive" there is not the slightest bit of urgency needed.

The Argo's kick off and don't even field a full team... yes that's correct. After tying the game with 23 seconds left. The Argos are a man short on the kickoff. There is a block in the back penalty that is missed and the play should have been called back.

For a 3 down "throwing league" there were 4 total completions of a 20+ throw.

There were 12, I repeat 12, QB sneaks.

The Argos has 31 pass attempts and per PFF gave up 25 pressures. Insane.

I log onto socials after the game and it's tweet after tweet about how AMAZING the CFL is because of the kick return ending. Even articles and podcasts declaring the CFL's greatness. It's bold face lies. The league and the people who cover it are trying so hard to protect the game that their lack of honesty is ruining it. Why can't we call it like it is. A bad football game.

Let me be very clear, if the goal is to grow the game for a younger demographic. This sort of stuff will not do it. You'd have a better chance at pissing in a hot sauce bottle than having any sort of substantial growth with games like that.

I want to end by saying there have been some great games already this season, and I do believe the CFL has the players and the talent to attract a ton of new fans in all demographics, but sometimes I wonder if the "powers that be" actually want that to occur.

*disclaimer please don't respond with "there are bad games in the nfl" YES, there most certainly are! But the NFL doesn't have the same issues the CFL does. One of which is that there are only 4 games a weekend so each game is magnified to its audience.

I don't agree with most of this.  The good old NFL is better than CFL slant is clear here.  Yes not a great game at times and some bad errors; easy to pile on when there are some bad moments in a game.  I found it exciting.  Toronto missing their starter.  Early season.  Give me a break.  He can go off alright, off to cover the NFL.  His post comes off as a rant to me, click bait.

Luke Wilson used to be cool.

He is criticizing things that are like holy ground here. The way the clock runs in the last 3 minutes. Yes, it had given us many exciting endings but Americans find it odd, possibly unfair. I have read that players call it the 5th quarter.  He also doesn't like the single point. The mistakes? To me it is a product of 2 exhibition games. The 12 QB sneaks, a product of the wider field and extra room also the extra yard off the ball. With 3 downs I feel we need that yard.

So I ask, does he even like Canadian football? Maybe he should stick to the American version.

i agree with him on the penalties - are those a result of:

poor coaching, earlier in the season, not enough practice time, no practice with pads, player talent, over exuberant refs??  likely a combo plate..

the rest sounds like anti cfl bias.

Is it okay to love both leagues?
As long as the CFL can be profitable, I don't see why we have an issue?

Quote from: LXTSN on June 23, 2025, 02:18:19 PMIs it okay to love both leagues?
As long as the CFL can be profitable, I don't see why we have an issue?

absolutely- i love both and consider myself lucky to have football to watch from June - February. 

i appreciate both leagues and the differences between them.  the hype of the NFL is unmatched - probably only by soccer in Europe.

He's not wrong. It was an ugly game, but both the NFL and CFL have clunkers & entertaining well played games. 

Quote from: TBURGESS on June 23, 2025, 02:26:47 PMHe's not wrong. It was an ugly game, but both the NFL and CFL have clunkers & entertaining well played games.

He's not right, either.

Quote from: The Zipp on June 23, 2025, 02:23:10 PMabsolutely- i love both and consider myself lucky to have football to watch from June - February. 

i appreciate both leagues and the differences between them.  the hype of the NFL is unmatched - probably only by soccer in Europe.

I just want to put you on to two more leagues that might have more hype (not saying that I get more excited for these, but the fans are insane).
Euro League or Greek League basketball. If you haven't seen video of these crowds you should take a quick trip to YouTube. That is probably the biggest home team advantage in the world.
The second I'd put ahead of the NFL is college football. Not a big shock but having students make up at least 3/4 of your audience can make for a wild experience!

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on June 23, 2025, 02:31:15 PMHe's not right, either.

I think he is right in saying there are some ugly CFL games. Lots of them actually. Maybe more than half of them!

With that being said, sometimes the ugly games are the most fun to watch. Don't kill me, hear me out...

I love the chaos and the weirdness of a 10-6 game. A gritty defensive battle, I'm all in for! It shouldn't be easy to get touchdowns or kick field goals. As rules change (in any sport for that matter), they are almost always in favor of more scoring. In my opinion, it messes with the integrity of the game. I like when they let the DB's play a little physical, this is football!

The CFL and TSN must be happy with this from Luke. Imagine how long an NFL network reporter would last after doing this.

Get invited to someone's  home for dinner, and proceed to give them an analysis of everything wrong with the place.

This is so American.

Quote from: LXTSN on June 23, 2025, 02:41:34 PMI think he is right in saying there are some ugly CFL games.

Sure, but to what end? There are ugly games in the NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA, etc.

Denigrating the CFL based on a single game - one that was ugly but also entertaining right to the finish - seems lazy and disingenuous. Especially coming from a guy who's never played a single snap in the CFL.

The only thing he has a point on is the penalties. I don't know what the league can do about that, but it's something they should look at.

The rest of his rant is way off. It comes off as arrogance veiled in "just trying to be helpful here". Furthermore, it's his opinion but he's projecting that onto a demographic. Again arrogance. I'm disappointed because I liked the guy and his analysis up to this point.

Lastly, on the fact check front, if the Riders missed a field goal at (or near I guess) the end of the game that would have sealed it, why would they be kicking off? Did TO actually elect to have them do that instead of taking the ball on the 40?

The rouge is an important aspect of the CFL game.  Wilson should be more concerned about NFL K/O's that are as boring as boring can be. You may as well eliminate them from the NFL game. That and fair catches. How about teams that can't get a 1st down on 4 th and less than a yard.

Yeah, I'm not a particular fan of lots of things in the NFL.

I am really impressed with the debate and take of many on here.  CFL is my favorite sport by far, watching it live is amazing, excited and great value.  When I retired the goal it to catch a game in each city.  The rules are awesome.  The Canadian talent is key.  The fact the players are so community based is key for me.  The league is real, you can feel it in your heart.  It's not based on hype or millionaires.  It's run on tradition and is part of the heart of Canada imo.  While I love hockey and my Oilers, the CFL season is king for me.  Our game need help to build on our attendance issues but we have a solid foundation to work on.  I'm a casual NFL fan.  Many aspects of the league I don't like.

Don't really like how he went about this but he's not wrong either on a lot of it.

I would disagree with his overall assessment that any of these suggestions would help attract a younger demographic but the points are valid enough if you're looking at it from a best product possible point of view:

I don't love the yard off the ball. It leads to toes being offside and changes the line play a bit to where American players need adjusting. Just align it with the NFL.

People love the rogue but I don't. I think it creates an element of strange that contrasts with the NFL which everyone knows and is aware of.

I think our 3 minute clock rule is fine as is, however the NFL also has plenty of really exciting final drives and if you aligned the rules and playclock I don't think it would be a net negative. It would just be different.

I think overall the league, spends too much time trying to differentiate itself from the NFL and not enough time trying to align itself with the most successful sports league on the planet.

If you're trying to onboard new fans are the differences helping or hurting? Are they net benefits or points of friction? Every one needs to be looked at separately but I would say in most cases it ends up being friction.

Quote from: bomb squad on June 23, 2025, 02:59:51 PMThe only thing he has a point on is the penalties. I don't know what the league can do about that, but it's something they should look at.

The rest of his rant is way off. It comes off as arrogance veiled in "just trying to be helpful here". Furthermore, it's his opinion but he's projecting that onto a demographic. Again arrogance. I'm disappointed because I liked the guy and his analysis up to this point.

Lastly, on the fact check front, if the Riders missed a field goal at (or near I guess) the end of the game that would have sealed it, why would they be kicking off? Did TO actually elect to have them do that instead of taking the ball on the 40?

The rules were changed to create more excitement at the end of the game, the scoring team has to kick off in the last 3 minutes, maybe Wilson should have noticed the excitement it created.

As for penalties, that was a dirty game that got out of hand with vindictive payback, neither HC is good at controlling their team's emotions.

Quote from: markf on June 23, 2025, 02:42:59 PMThe CFL and TSN must be happy with this from Luke. Imagine how long an NFL network reporter would last after doing this.

Get invited to someone's  home for dinner, and proceed to give them an analysis of everything wrong with the place.

This is so American.

Sounds bad but you're not wrong, much easier to criticize and find fault with everything than focus on the positives, if that's what the young people want god help them.  The outcome is always "never good enough".

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 23, 2025, 03:40:05 PMDon't really like how he went about this but he's not wrong either on a lot of it.

I would disagree with his overall assessment that any of these suggestions would help attract a younger demographic but the points are valid enough if you're looking at it from a best product possible point of view:

I don't love the yard off the ball. It leads to toes being offside and changes the line play a bit to where American players need adjusting. Just align it with the NFL.

People love the rogue but I don't. I think it creates an element of strange that contrasts with the NFL which everyone knows and is aware of.

I think our 3 minute clock rule is fine as is, however the NFL also has plenty of really exciting final drives and if you aligned the rules and playclock I don't think it would be a net negative. It would just be different.

I think overall the league, spends too much time trying to differentiate itself from the NFL and not enough time trying to align itself with the most successful sports league on the planet.

If you're trying to onboard new fans are the differences helping or hurting? Are they net benefits or points of friction? Every one needs to be looked at separately but I would say in most cases it ends up being friction.

I believe because we keep our game different is why we are successful.  We don't differentiate ourselves from the NFL, this is how are game has been for a very long time.  There are lessons to be learned from the NFL and it's success but this is a much different market and game and always will be.  I don't mind the yard off the ball, love the rouge.  I want a drop kick baby! :)

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 23, 2025, 03:46:44 PMThe rules were changed to create more excitement at the end of the game, the scoring team has to kick off in the last 3 minutes, maybe Wilson should have noticed the excitement it created.

As for penalties, that was a dirty game that got out of hand with vindictive payback, neither HC is good at controlling their team's emotions.

I'm aware of that, but I believe that's only after a successful field goal.

So, actually the ball should have been spotted on the 40.

Quote from: The Zipp on June 23, 2025, 02:23:10 PMthe hype of the NFL is unmatched - probably only by soccer in Europe.

Literally 7 times more people watched the World Cup of Rugby (800million in 2023 - and that was down 7% from 857mil on 2019) than watched the Super Bowl (120.4mil in 2023, and that set a league record).  Just sayin.  The NFL isn't all that, and it ain't even close

I think he has let that idiotic moustache and mullet go to his head. :D

Pretty tough to take him seriously looking like a hobo.

The QB sneaks in the CFL is my only issue. It feels like there is way too many

I think if it's 2nd or 3rd down and 1 yard or less you shouldn't be able to do the sneak, and require to hand it off or do another play.

If it's 2nd and 2 you do a sneak only get a yard and a half , on 3rd downyou can't do a sneak again.

Would make for a more exciting game

Quote from: VictorRomano on June 23, 2025, 04:14:47 PMLiterally 7 times more people watched the World Cup of Rugby (800million in 2023 - and that was down 7% from 857mil on 2019) than watched the Super Bowl (120.4mil in 2023, and that set a league record).  Just sayin.  The NFL isn't all that, and it ain't even close

i do believe that the NFL is the largest sports league in the world by revenue. how many people watching the championship event is a relevant marker but so is revenue so i will stand by the statement that the NFL is king of "hype".

I like him as a sideline guy so far, but all of this is an NFL guy complaining that the CFL is not the NFL.

It was a poorly played game in the rain - you could make up a similar rant for any number of NFL games. There were also a number of rule changes this year which teams and players haven't adjusted to yet.

His complaint of the Argos' final drive makes no sense. You think we should artificially sped up the clock at the end of the game to manufacture some excitement? That would be gimmicky.

I agree that there were too many QB sneaks. But whether it's the QB or a FB coming in for a one yard dive, it makes no difference from a fan enjoyment perspective. He's just nitpicking differences at that point.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 23, 2025, 03:40:05 PMDon't really like how he went about this but he's not wrong either on a lot of it.

I would disagree with his overall assessment that any of these suggestions would help attract a younger demographic but the points are valid enough if you're looking at it from a best product possible point of view:

I don't love the yard off the ball. It leads to toes being offside and changes the line play a bit to where American players need adjusting. Just align it with the NFL.

People love the rogue but I don't. I think it creates an element of strange that contrasts with the NFL which everyone knows and is aware of.

I think our 3 minute clock rule is fine as is, however the NFL also has plenty of really exciting final drives and if you aligned the rules and playclock I don't think it would be a net negative. It would just be different.

I think overall the league, spends too much time trying to differentiate itself from the NFL and not enough time trying to align itself with the most successful sports league on the planet.

If you're trying to onboard new fans are the differences helping or hurting? Are they net benefits or points of friction? Every one needs to be looked at separately but I would say in most cases it ends up being friction.

You can't say we're spending too much time trying to differentiate from the NFL when you're speaking of things that have existed since before the NFL existed. There's no reason to arbitrarily align our rules with the NFL.

Quote from: The Zipp on June 23, 2025, 04:43:30 PMi do believe that the NFL is the largest sports league in the world by revenue. how many people watching the championship event is a relevant marker but so is revenue so i will stand by the statement that the NFL is king of "hype".

That's because we're in North America though. In Europe and Asia, other sports are way bigger and there's significantly more people across the pond than on our end.

Quote from: bomb squad on June 23, 2025, 04:02:29 PMI'm aware of that, but I believe that's only after a successful field goal.

So, actually the ball should have been spotted on the 40.

It is the receiving teams choice, Sask opted for the kickoff.

I agree with others he was cool being the talking head with Jay on the NFL  but now he just sounds like a goof. Even before this spat I thought he is kinda useless on the sideline.

Quote from: Sway on June 23, 2025, 04:43:08 PMThe QB sneaks in the CFL is my only issue. It feels like there is way too many

I think if it's 2nd or 3rd down and 1 yard or less you shouldn't be able to do the sneak, and require to hand it off or do another play.

If it's 2nd and 2 you do a sneak only get a yard and a half , on 3rd downyou can't do a sneak again.

Would make for a more exciting game

I'll give you the 2nd and 1 or less is a bit ho-hum. I wish teams would go big more on those. Otherwise, everything else about sneaks is quite fine. Streveler and Stevens are exciting to watch in those situations.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 23, 2025, 05:08:35 PMIt is the receiving teams choice, Sask opted for the kickoff.

Saskatchewan would have been kicking team if the field goal was successful. Anyways, it was spotted at the 40, like it should have been. Just rewatched it.

Quote from: Jesse on June 23, 2025, 04:59:05 PMYou can't say we're spending too much time trying to differentiate from the NFL when you're speaking of things that have existed since before the NFL existed. There's no reason to arbitrarily align our rules with the NFL.

It wouldn't be done arbitrarily, it would be done strategically. And who came up with what first matters not at all to prospective fans and so isn't particularly relevant. If the CFL enjoyed any advantages to being first to market in the category of football entertainment those advantages have long since tapered.

I have never heard of very many CFL fans say they watch the league because we give 1 point on a missed field. Or they we have a yard off the ball. Or that the play clock only starts after the spot.

More of the ticket buying/tv watching public couldn't make those distinctions.

If anything, we should be paying particularly close attention to what someone like Wilson is saying, he's a Canadian who is a fan of the NFL first and that's a segment of the Canadian public that the CFL is positioned well to win over by doing things to align and reduce friction points. For NFL only fans in Canada, that's how you'd have to do it.

I'm sure the true-Blue CFL crowd on here would loudly tell everyone we don't need them, but the owners in Edmonton, Toronto, Calgary and BC might feel differently -- you know, the people who pay for this thing.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 23, 2025, 05:26:24 PMIt wouldn't be done arbitrarily, it would be done strategically. And who came up with what first matters not at all to prospective fans and so isn't particularly relevant. If the CFL enjoyed any advantages to being first to market in the category of football entertainment those advantages have long since tapered.

I have never heard of very many CFL fans say they watch the league because we give 1 point on a missed field. Or they we have a yard off the ball. Or that the play clock only starts after the spot.

More of the ticket buying/tv watching public couldn't make those distinctions.

If anything, we should be paying particularly close attention to what someone like Wilson is saying, he's a Canadian who is a fan of the NFL first and that's a segment of the Canadian public that the CFL is positioned well to win over by doing things to align and reduce friction points. For NFL only fans in Canada, that's how you'd have to do it.

I'm sure the true-Blue CFL crowd on here would loudly tell everyone we don't need them, but the owners in Edmonton, Toronto, Calgary and BC might feel differently -- you know, the people who pay for this thing.

On the flip side, no one is going to start watching our league if we remove the yard of the ball or eliminate the rouge. It's 100% arbitrary to align with the NFL for no reason.

Quote from: Jesse on June 23, 2025, 05:03:54 PMThat's because we're in North America though. In Europe and Asia, other sports are way bigger and there's significantly more people across the pond than on our end.

the biggest sports league in the world by revenue is the NFL...not just north america.  The fact that is a very significant population outside of NA and the NFL still beats them all is testament to how huge a machine the NFL is.

The challenge is that we are a mere flea sitting on the behind of an elephant and play a very similar (not identical) sport as the elephant.

and to be clear - I am huge fan of the flea and the elephant...it is just very hard for the flea to be relevant and like Mr. Wilson says it is tough when you play 4 games a week - hard to hide the dud.  When there is a stinker on SNF - people talk about it but its a short week and the hype train just moves on to Thursday night football.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 23, 2025, 05:26:24 PMIt wouldn't be done arbitrarily, it would be done strategically.

How so?

Quote from: The Zipp on June 23, 2025, 05:42:10 PMthe biggest sports league in the world by revenue is the NFL...

Revenue isn't a sole determining factor in how good or popular a sports league is, though.

Quote from: The Zipp on June 23, 2025, 04:43:30 PMi do believe that the NFL is the largest sports league in the world by revenue. how many people watching the championship event is a relevant marker but so is revenue so i will stand by the statement that the NFL is king of "hype".

Over hyped imo

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on June 23, 2025, 05:42:20 PMRevenue isn't a sole determining factor in how good or popular a sports league is, though.

And it's kind of a red herring argument.

NFL is synonymous with football, practically. Again, switch over to Europe/Asia, to soccer and to a lesser extent baseball, and they're so huge and cover such a large territory that there are several professional leagues.

If you want to compare global revenue of Football vs Soccer, not just NFL to one of the European soccer leagues, Soccer wins. And then you point out how many people watch their championship series' vs how many people watch the SUper Bowl and it starts to come into context a bit more.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on June 23, 2025, 05:42:20 PMHow so?

Revenue isn't a sole determining factor in how good or popular a sports league is, though.

You are right and I said that audience size on TV is a relevant marker...revenue is a big one though and certainly does speak to popularity - if people/business didn't care then the numbers wouldn't be that big.  If you are any sort of sports fan - even not a football fan you will recognize how big the NFL is.

"Let me be very clear, if the goal is to grow the game for a younger demographic. This sort of stuff will not do it...."

This is what I dont like about his rant.

Why should the concern be to cater to fans that may never watch or go to a CFL game? And to possibly alienate existing fans in the process.

If people are worried about the size of crowds and viewership how about looking into why people have been turned off from the game. My guess it isn't because of the rouge or the 3 minute clock.

Use the Riders as an example.

Why did they go from 28k or so season tickets to around 20k, and how will they manage to build up that number again?

Is it easier to try to change the game to attract new fans or try to find out why fans have left and work on bringing them back?

Sure CFL fans are getting older and will need to be replaced by a younger crowd but you cant be wasting all your energy on going after fans that may never go to a game.

The key is to keep existing fans happy, work on bringing former fans back, work with the corporate community, and attracting new fans with the help of existing fans.

The next generation of fans will most likely be children or friends of current fans. Not someone thats sitting at home and just decides to go a game because the league got rid of the rouge.

Quote from: The Zipp on June 23, 2025, 05:51:28 PMYou are right and I said that audience size on TV is a relevant marker...revenue is a big one though and certainly does speak to popularity - if people/business didn't care then the numbers wouldn't be that big.  If you are any sort of sports fan - even not a football fan you will recognize how big the NFL is.

The NFL is a sports business juggernaut, if not the sports business juggernaut. Billionaire owners aplenty, numerous corporate sponsorship deals both nationally and locally, and multiple lucrative broadcasting deals - and that's just its domestic footprint. The NFL has the luxury of predominantly operating in the world's wealthiest country, as well targeting customers (and their wallets) from a population of over 340M people.

The only two comparables I can think of are MLB and NBA. The CFL can't - and the reasons for that are obvious.

I guess that's why I'm irked by Wilson's criticism. It's not objective.

I've said this for years every time this type of debate comes up, and it still applies today. It's all about attitude. It's not the product. The rules and product are fine. It's the attitude towards the league. How do you change people's attitude is the challenge. The inferiority complex if you will. Tough nut to crack. 

Quote from: gobombersgo on June 23, 2025, 06:14:39 PM"Let me be very clear, if the goal is to grow the game for a younger demographic. This sort of stuff will not do it...."

This is what I dont like about his rant.

Why should the concern be to cater to fans that may never watch or go to a CFL game? And to possibly alienate existing fans in the process.

If people are worried about the size of crowds and viewership how about looking into why people have been turned off from the game. My guess it isn't because of the rouge or the 3 minute clock.

Use the Riders as an example.

Why did they go from 28k or so season tickets to around 20k, and how will they manage to build up that number again?

Is it easier to try to change the game to attract new fans or try to find out why fans have left and work on bringing them back?

Sure CFL fans are getting older and will need to be replaced by a younger crowd but you cant be wasting all your energy on going after fans that may never go to a game.

The key is to keep existing fans happy, work on bringing former fans back, work with the corporate community, and attracting new fans with the help of existing fans.

The next generation of fans will most likely be children or friends of current fans. Not someone thats sitting at home and just decides to go a game because the league got rid of the rouge.

I believe the Bombers have succeeded in attracting a younger audience than Sask has, especially families.  In Wpg attending games has become a fun event, as have the Jets block parties.  True Bomber games may not attract much of the under 20 crowd, but at this point in history those kids are experiencing severe economic challenges. The demographic attending Bomber games is far younger than the old fogeys that sit on their hands and scowl at Rider games amongst a scattering of drunken yahoos.

Quote from: Jesse on June 23, 2025, 05:33:15 PMOn the flip side, no one is going to start watching our league if we remove the yard of the ball or eliminate the rouge. It's 100% arbitrary to align with the NFL for no reason.

Maybe not exclusively. But it would probably help in some cases. You'd have to do the market research to find out how significantly.

If the AHL played on European ice, with an extra forward and awarded .5 of a point for hitting the post the predictable net result would be that less Jets fans would attend Moose games.

The only question is market size -- that is whether there are enough Jets fans who would be interested in going to Moose games if it were more similar to make it worth your while. I think that's an open question. But at some point if (young now, all at some point) consumers expect football is played a certain way and you offer a less popular alternative, you need to either live with the market share you have and try minimize the attrition or you make a change.

I think the CFL can exist quite comfortably with what it has now and what it's built. But I wouldn't expect significant growth without change.

Don't watch the NFL except for the Super Bowl, NFL is run oriented which is boring, CFL is pass oriented produces more excitement.

Quote from: Horseman on June 23, 2025, 10:03:23 PMDon't watch the NFL except for the Super Bowl, NFL is run oriented which is boring, CFL is pass oriented produces more excitement.

that was your dad's NFL.  They have evolved

Wilson was an average at best NFL player who thinks he's too big for the CFL and is longing to get a shot down south.

When we were kids playing football we played CFL rules, not NFL rules. We loved the CFL game because it's our game. I'm sure the kids down South play NFL rules for the same reason.

As an adult I find the NFL boring as hell! You need 4 downs to get 10 yards? Really? No motion in the backfield? Small field, 11 players, fair catch? Boring.

What a goofy argument!

Playing on the line with a yard off, never bothered me and my line mates. Making any kind of block is about angles.  One yard, no yard, it's easy to figure out.

Player quality.  Guys in the CFL are nit freaks of nature, fed by steroids or great PR machines.
Guys in the NFL are either bigger or faster, than a Canadian. They just have more people down there, so naturally they have more people to exploit.


Recently, Canadians that get good coaching, have proven they belong.
The former 1960s style game is gone. As a matter of fact the spread formation used by CFL teams, since the mid 70's was noticed a couple years ago the KCChiefs, who brought in  these and four receiver sets.....and defenses, still left their 250 pd linebackers in the defense vs, these guys who could run 4.4 forties as I said some teams are throwing like crazy.

Quote from: The Zipp on June 23, 2025, 05:51:28 PMYou are right and I said that audience size on TV is a relevant marker

Everyone here is wrong.  The biggest sport by audience in the entire world is... F1 racing, and it has been for a loooong time.

https://www.autoracing1.com/pl/438726/f1-news-f1-is-the-largest-sport-in-the-world-with-750-million-fans/

750 million fans worldwide.  50M new fans since 2021.  I've watched for 25 years and gone to a couple.

Most races draw 150k people as paid butts-in-seats.  And most seats are $400-$800 CAD.  NFL doesn't have that draw because one stadium can't hold much more than half that many.

F1 is ahead of every league except the NFL in total sponsorship revenue (2.04B vs 2.49B) but since there are only 10 F1 teams vs 32 NFL teams, the sponsors spend way more per team.  That makes it much more lucrative to be an F1 team than a NFL team.

I bring this up because F1 is growing by leaps and bounds now, and the CFL can learn from their success.  There's many reasons for it, and I haven't researched it much, but to me I see 2 differences in F1 post-pandemic:

1. 41% of F1 viewers are female.  30 years ago it was basically all guys.  I think hyping the drivers and showing their faces all over the place (theme intros, tons of pressers/debriefs) is part of this.  Ladies like fit young guys.  The CFL has that too!  Do more of the player faces/bodies on intros like they're doing with the singing thing.  In fact, that might be why the CFL did the slightly-cringe singing thing... it may have done well with female focus groups!  (Now I gotta go ask my wife!)

2. Really upping the FX/graphics, songs, bling, etc.  Kids love this stuff.  The more you make it like a video game, the more they'll watch.  F1 has great intros now, and stats/graphics everywhere during a race.  4k screens mean you can put info bits everywhere.  More data!  Show live-time player running speed, acceleration, etc.  Ball speed, distance.  Everything.  Kids are more aspergers and nerdy now, so play on that.

Oh ya, and like F1 at a few tracks, and PAS, every team should allow fans on the field post-game.  This is the #1 way to get families coming, along with reduced ticket prices for kids in more sections than just the bargain areas.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 23, 2025, 05:26:24 PMI'm sure the true-Blue CFL crowd on here would loudly tell everyone we don't need them, but the owners in Edmonton, Toronto, Calgary and BC might feel differently -- you know, the people who pay for this thing.

Why is it always "you need to be more like NFL to attract the NFL fans"?  Many people here don't watch the NFL, outside of the playoffs (i.e. me).  I'm going to do a random survey of the STHers sitting around me this Thursday.  I bet half don't watch NFL.

There are a zillion people in Canada who don't watch the NFL at all, or just the post-season.  So screw the NFL and trying to emulate their rules.  Reach out to the non-football people.  They don't even have to be sports fans/people (I'm not!).

You get them to a game.  I don't care how.  Discounts.  Bring-a-friend nights.  Referral bonuses.  $5 kids tickets.  Snoop Dog.  Just get them to a game so they can see if it's for them.  Some will get the bug and return and eventually grow into STH.

And you don't have to even be a winning team (but it doesn't hurt).  I started being a fan again in '12-'14 and the first 6 games I attended were 6 in a row where we lost every single one (bad luck picking which games to come to).  I loved it anyhow!  If the team shows respect in their attempt, and the club respect for its fans, that's enough.  SSK lost all those fans under Dickenson The Lesser because there was no seriousness or respect, just aww shucks we'll take the team bowling.  I read the forums.

I've been to 5 current stadiums so far, and I can't think of a better way to spend a hot-but-cooling summer night than sitting watching some CFL at these great places.  And I'm sure the other 4 stadiums are just as nice.  No excuses, CFL!

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 23, 2025, 03:40:05 PMI don't love the yard off the ball. It leads to toes being offside and changes the line play a bit to where American players need adjusting. Just align it with the NFL.

Players go off-side all the time in the NFL too!  If anything, it makes it harder to judge bad alignment because they're all packed up so close together.

You can't get rid of the CFL neutral zone because of the 3 downs.  So you need to have both, or neither.

It would be catastrophic to ditch the neutral zone and remain 3 downs!  The number of punts/FGs might double.  If they snuck 20 times the game Luke is whinging about, then that's 20 more punts that game.  Ya, real improvement.

The Mafia philosophy is you don't need to get 10 in 2 attempts, you need to only get 8.5.  The sneak should be 95% (preferably 99%) automatic on a MOS team.  Every smart CFL team should seek to emulate.

Quote from: The Zipp on June 23, 2025, 02:15:18 PMi agree with him on the penalties - are those a result of:

poor coaching, earlier in the season, not enough practice time, no practice with pads, player talent, over exuberant refs??  likely a combo plate..

Yes.

But here, it's mostly early-in-season.

It's also player continuity.  If you want early-season to not suck so bad for so many teams, then improve player retention.  I don't care how you do it, just do it.  My SMS-relief-based-on-years-with-team idea I've said for years would basically solve this over night.

We should strive for a league where maybe 1 big name leaves a team each FA, not 5.  Look at the Bomber Store jerseys -- still lots of non-Bombers for sale.  And look at the bobblehead collection for sale!  2 of the 3 ones are no longer Bombers!

Player retention/continuity also draws/keeps fans because people get emotionally attached to these guys!!

Quote from: The Zipp on June 23, 2025, 01:14:34 PMLuke Wilson: It's bold face lies.

Hard to take mullet-porn-stache man seriously when he blows this idiom.  "Bald faced lies" is the expression.  It's not a stupid font in Word!  And no, Merriam adding "bold" as a legitimate option because everyone is stupid and Word/fonts became big in the 90s doesn't make it right: certainly not any more than "chomping at the bit" is a thing.

If you want to be taken seriously as a reporter/writer, as in that's your paid day job, learn to write.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 23, 2025, 09:49:59 PMMaybe not exclusively. But it would probably help in some cases. You'd have to do the market research to find out how significantly.

If the AHL played on European ice, with an extra forward and awarded .5 of a point for hitting the post the predictable net result would be that less Jets fans would attend Moose games.

The only question is market size -- that is whether there are enough Jets fans who would be interested in going to Moose games if it were more similar to make it worth your while. I think that's an open question. But at some point if (young now, all at some point) consumers expect football is played a certain way and you offer a less popular alternative, you need to either live with the market share you have and try minimize the attrition or you make a change.

I think the CFL can exist quite comfortably with what it has now and what it's built. But I wouldn't expect significant growth without change.

We see this over and over in the states. People try to start new football leagues. They change the rules to make it more violent or more exciting or "fix" the problems.

It universally fails.

Because people don't watch football or hockey or any sport for the rules. In many cases not even because they like the sport at all. It's because they grew up watching on their dad's knee or their from the hometown or because it's a fun atmosphere when you go.

There's not a single rule that can be changed that will affect a single person watching. Or we'd all be on a UFL board right now.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 24, 2025, 08:25:04 AMWhy is it always "you need to be more like NFL to attract the NFL fans"?  Many people here don't watch the NFL, outside of the playoffs (i.e. me).  I'm going to do a random survey of the STHers sitting around me this Thursday.  I bet half don't watch NFL.

The biggest, most effective thing the CFL is doing to be like the NFL is adding fantasy and betting.

That's a huge part of what drives it. So many people who watch sports...don't really watch.

Quote from: Jesse on June 24, 2025, 11:09:38 AMWe see this over and over in the states. People try to start new football leagues. They change the rules to make it more violent or more exciting or "fix" the problems.

It universally fails.

Because people don't watch football or hockey or any sport for the rules. In many cases not even because they like the sport at all. It's because they grew up watching on their dad's knee or their from the hometown or because it's a fun atmosphere when you go.

There's not a single rule that can be changed that will affect a single person watching. Or we'd all be on a UFL board right now.

The rules in this case shape the product - sometimes in substantial ways. No one watches football for "holding" calls but if you got rid of holding it would change the game/product quite significantly, and probably not for the better. If we're talking about marketing to new fans, then the rules are a relevant ingredient from the perspective of its shaping of the product (watching or attending a CFL game).

If we're looking at scale, the US is a football factory and they train on NFL rules from 5 years-old. If we aligned some of our rules, the jump would be easier. If we relaxed the ratio, we'd have a bigger pool of talent and therefore, fairly unquestionably, a better product. That might not be enough to make an NFL fan happy but a better quality product is in everyone's best interest. Everything starts with product (which seems to be Luke's point).

Additionally, I'm not saying the league needs to go after NFL fans living in Canada. I'm simply suggesting that to me it sounds like a viable audience. It may be that through research (that I'm sure the league has done) that this group may not be easily motived and while it looks tempting, their existing perceptions of the CFL may be too costly to overcome or the group may be too small and therefore not worth the time and effort. You're usually looking for the next lowest hanging fruit as a marketer.

Maybe it's new Canadians. Maybe it's younger people who don't watch the NFL, rural communities. This is typically the work of marketing to diagnose and find out though. Some combination.

One thing I hope you're wrong about though is your description of 'why' people watch. If they watch because their Dad did or because it's a fun atmosphere, what happens when it's not a fun atmosphere (Edmonton, Toronto) or even worse, Dads don't watch because they prefer the NFL or other alternatives? Are you suggesting that the league is out of options for those people? If those are indeed the real reasons, and they don't make changes, then the CFL will assuredly slowly die of attrition.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 23, 2025, 09:49:59 PMIf the AHL played on European ice, with an extra forward and awarded .5 of a point for hitting the post the predictable net result would be that less Jets fans would attend Moose games. 

Weird hypothetical. What's the point of such commentary and how does it relate to the historical differences between American and Canadian football?

Quote from: Jesse on June 24, 2025, 11:13:12 AMThe biggest, most effective thing the CFL is doing to be like the NFL is adding fantasy and betting.

That's a huge part of what drives it. So many people who watch sports...don't really watch.

I hate that you're right about this. Sports are a money-making machine and that's only intensified with sports betting becoming more popular in recent years.

Quote from: J5V on June 24, 2025, 04:27:11 AMWhen we were kids playing football we played CFL rules, not NFL rules. We loved the CFL game because it's our game. I'm sure the kids down South play NFL rules for the same reason.

As an adult I find the NFL boring as hell! You need 4 downs to get 10 yards? Really? No motion in the backfield? Small field, 11 players, fair catch? Boring.

I think NFL offences are trying to copy (as much as they can) the motion that we have. At least that was the discussion I heard watching a few games.  Innovative!

Another thing.... Way back when, the NFL sneered at our quarterbacks, "scrambling", "backyard, sandlot" and they had the pocket passer statues.

But they copied us, since Mahomes. Now a running qb is a -ok.

They just had to come up with a description that sounded "scientific"

Like "Designed run"  and "off schedule"

So much baloney from down there.

I agree, I watch every cfl game.   but I struggle to get through even one NFL game a week.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on June 24, 2025, 01:21:21 PMWeird hypothetical. What's the point of such commentary and how does it relate to the historical differences between American and Canadian football?

I hate that you're right about this. Sports are a money-making machine and that's only intensified with sports betting becoming more popular in recent years.

So two polite things: one - if you take one sentence from a post thereby removing context of course it's confusing. The post tells you why I suggested the weird hypothetical and I agree with you that it's weird.

Two - we need to be careful on assumptions of what sports betting is doing. Just because it's everywhere doesn't mean it's a main driver of net new growth. It only became legal in 2018 (in the US) and some sports leagues were enjoying exponential growth for decades before that.

If you ask me, the rise of sports gambling is great for league profitability and also for increasing existing fan engagement amongst people who bet.

I don't think it makes a statistically relevant number of non-fans into fans. That is, people with no current interest in CFL or NFL or NHL or whatever aren't suddenly becoming fans just because you can bet. They were on some level already fans, and betting may increase affinity/engagement of those people. But if you weren't a CFL fan now - being able to bet on a game probably isn't something you'll action. 

Maybe, the CFL needs to stop hiring ex-NFL players as commentators, and stick to ex-players that know and love the CFL, for all its quirks and curiosities, and know how to emphasize the uniqueness instead of critique the differences.

Critiquing the fact that the FG try went through the endzone and they still got a point should actually be a termination offence.  I'm sorry, but Luke has a decent pedigree as a football player, but I find nothing special about his sideline appearances, especially his sideline appearance.  I was shocked the first time I saw him, I thought he was in a hallowe'en costume from the 80's.  The pornstar 'stache, really?

I guess he's the result of ratio thinking in the TSN crew, he has the right passport, but sorry, not the right attitude.

I'd rather have a crew of Milt Stegall's and Matt Dunnigan's who are American but embrace the CFL rather than Luke Wilson, who is a Canadian, but clearly does not love the CFL, and finds it a poor shadow of the NFL that he played in. 

He made more in his short career than an entire CFL team, including coaches, makes in a year.  There's going to be a difference.

Quote from: theaardvark on June 24, 2025, 04:00:14 PMMaybe, the CFL needs to stop hiring ex-NFL players as commentators, and stick to ex-players that know and love the CFL, for all its quirks and curiosities, and know how to emphasize the uniqueness instead of critique the differences.

Critiquing the fact that the FG try went through the endzone and they still got a point should actually be a termination offence.  I'm sorry, but Luke has a decent pedigree as a football player, but I find nothing special about his sideline appearances, especially his sideline appearance.  I was shocked the first time I saw him, I thought he was in a hallowe'en costume from the 80's.  The pornstar 'stache, really?

I guess he's the result of ratio thinking in the TSN crew, he has the right passport, but sorry, not the right attitude.

I'd rather have a crew of Milt Stegall's and Matt Dunnigan's who are American but embrace the CFL rather than Luke Wilson, who is a Canadian, but clearly does not love the CFL, and finds it a poor shadow of the NFL that he played in. 

He made more in his short career than an entire CFL team, including coaches, makes in a year.  There's going to be a difference.

I didn't have a clue who he was when TSN first introduced him but immediately disliked his demeanour, I think the essential component of a sideline reporter is to exude enthusiasm for their job, most do, Wilson doesn't.

Willllson can go away as he just lacks a respect for the Canadian game. A Loud mouth bafoon I feel  best describes him.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 24, 2025, 08:11:28 AMEveryone here is wrong.  The biggest sport by audience in the entire world is... F1 racing, and it has been for a loooong time.

F1 racing is a sport? LOL! J/K!

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 24, 2025, 08:25:04 AMYou get them to a game.  I don't care how.  Discounts.  Bring-a-friend nights.  Referral bonuses.  $5 kids tickets.  Snoop Dog.  Just get them to a game so they can see if it's for them.  Some will get the bug and return and eventually grow into STH.

So true and the only thing I'll add to this is that there is nothing like being at a game live. The pop of the hits, the sound of the ball being kicked, the grunts of the players, the smack of shoulder pads, the speed of the game, the size of the field, the arm strength of the QBs, the leg strength of the kickers, etc. You watch a game on TV and while entertaining, it doesn't convey the reality of the sport and just how good these athletes truly are. A neighbour was kind enough to take me to a Bomber game when I was, maybe, 12 years old and it blew me away and I was hooked for life.

Your point is 100% bang-on, Techno! Just get them to a game!

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 24, 2025, 08:38:41 AMHard to take mullet-porn-stache man seriously when he blows this idiom.  "Bald faced lies" is the expression.  It's not a stupid font in Word!  And no, Merriam adding "bold" as a legitimate option because everyone is stupid and Word/fonts became big in the 90s doesn't make it right: certainly not any more than "chomping at the bit" is a thing.

If you want to be taken seriously as a reporter/writer, as in that's your paid day job, learn to write.

This has been a peeve of mine for ages and so many of them do it. It's "Champing at the bit" and I've heard Dunigan say "chomping at the bit" but gave him a pass since he was relatively new to the gig but others say it/write it and have done it so often and for so long and it's annoying as hell!

Quote from: J5V on June 24, 2025, 06:11:28 PMThis has been a peeve of mine for ages and so many of them do it. It's "Champing at the bit" and I've heard Dunigan say "chomping at the bit" but gave him a pass since he was relatively new to the gig but others say it/write it and have done it so often and for so long and it's annoying as hell!

:D

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 24, 2025, 01:17:30 PMThe rules in this case shape the product - sometimes in substantial ways. No one watches football for "holding" calls but if you got rid of holding it would change the game/product quite significantly, and probably not for the better. If we're talking about marketing to new fans, then the rules are a relevant ingredient from the perspective of its shaping of the product (watching or attending a CFL game).

If we're looking at scale, the US is a football factory and they train on NFL rules from 5 years-old. If we aligned some of our rules, the jump would be easier. If we relaxed the ratio, we'd have a bigger pool of talent and therefore, fairly unquestionably, a better product. That might not be enough to make an NFL fan happy but a better quality product is in everyone's best interest. Everything starts with product (which seems to be Luke's point).

Additionally, I'm not saying the league needs to go after NFL fans living in Canada. I'm simply suggesting that to me it sounds like a viable audience. It may be that through research (that I'm sure the league has done) that this group may not be easily motived and while it looks tempting, their existing perceptions of the CFL may be too costly to overcome or the group may be too small and therefore not worth the time and effort. You're usually looking for the next lowest hanging fruit as a marketer.

Maybe it's new Canadians. Maybe it's younger people who don't watch the NFL, rural communities. This is typically the work of marketing to diagnose and find out though. Some combination.

One thing I hope you're wrong about though is your description of 'why' people watch. If they watch because their Dad did or because it's a fun atmosphere, what happens when it's not a fun atmosphere (Edmonton, Toronto) or even worse, Dads don't watch because they prefer the NFL or other alternatives? Are you suggesting that the league is out of options for those people? If those are indeed the real reasons, and they don't make changes, then the CFL will assuredly slowly die of attrition.

Are you suggesting that by aligning some CFL rules to those in the NFL, it would remove differences that you describe as "friction points" (which I interpret as micro-barriers to new fandom), thereby reshaping the game slightly into a product that is ever so slightly more recognizable to an NFL fan, culminating in >0 new CFL fans?

If I'm interpreting your point correctly - and this is said with love from the bottom of my heart - then you are an insane person.

i would hope that the CFL has done some analysis and data mining on trying to understand the markets that are successful and why they are that way as well as finding out the various reasons that new fans have been generated in some of the more challenging markets.

I would love to see some of the answers to questions like:

1) how long have you been an active CFL fan
2) what are the reasons you attending your first CFL game
3) what are the reasons you continue to attend CFL games
4) what are the reasons you don't attend all CFL games in your area

stuff like that - I hope someone is asking those questions among others to a sizable number of people.  Reasons people may not be attending games in Toronto could be the sheer choice of other options, travel to the game, not knowing who the argos are, gameday experience...

Edmonton is odd because they did have a pretty good fanbase - what has turned those fans off?  poor team, low chance of seeing a win is likely it.  Winnipeg is booming for lots of reasons but I think it's a very competitive team and the gameday experience.  I haven't been to a game in Edmonton so  I don't know what it's like.  The two cities are very similar - maybe the game day experience is more deadmonton that they want to admit.

Who has been to a game there recently - fun or dead?

I want to do a anti Wilson sign at the Bomber game lol

Bo knows

Bo Levi Mitchell pushes back on Luke Willson's CFL criticism: 'Tell me it's not exciting' - 3DownNation https://share.google/rcELbPGmhZxr75DjZ

This topic is a great debate and lots of great content all

One thing that is clear is that is show who wants to change our game and bow down to "the great" NFL (rules) and those of us that would fight to the death to keep this great unique Canadian game as is.  You see that in some posters comments when we talk about retaining minimum number of Canadians rule.  I see it when we debate our great Canadian depth players.  Kinda cool that this has helped me learn more about people's take on things, no right or wrong just how we are.

Lots needs to be done to keep the CFL growing and help the weaker clubs gain more fans and build our TV numbers.  I don't have those answers but I strongly believe the rules are what makes us great!

Love the passion everyone, regardless on what side of fence you on

CFL live is king!!!

Quote from: J5V on June 24, 2025, 06:11:28 PMThis has been a peeve of mine for ages and so many of them do it. It's "Champing at the bit" and I've heard Dunigan say "chomping at the bit" but gave him a pass since he was relatively new to the gig but others say it/write it and have done it so often and for so long and it's annoying as hell!

Both are acceptable for slightly different references... elitists who argue who/whom and whether is is Steve and me or I and Steve seem to prefer "Champing", I think because it is different, correctable, mansplain compatible and/or elitist.  Might just be me being erudite.

That said, time to start a write in campaign to remove a certain journeyman NFL fifth round pick receiver whose claim to fame is cracking NFL AR's without putting up big stats (just over 1300 yards... total).

Yeah, what would the British know about English? Let's Americanize everything.

I couldn't give a roaring rip what a Luke Wilson has to say about anything, let alone the CFL. Don't remember where or what he played and couldn't care what he says. If TSN or whomever wants to hire him to slam the CFL, they got a bigger problem than they think

Sounds like he click-baited fans by dumping on the CFL. Maybe one day he'll say something that's worthy of a listen but until then he's lost this reader. Addition by subtraction -- I don't even miss him! ;-)

Quote from: J5V on June 25, 2025, 01:26:52 AMSounds like he click-baited fans by dumping on the CFL. Maybe one day he'll say something that's worthy of a listen but until then he's lost this reader. Addition by subtraction -- I don't even miss him! ;-)

good choice "Kindly Cal" as Dunnigan would put it, lol. :D

Quote from: J5V on June 25, 2025, 01:26:52 AMSounds like he click-baited fans by dumping on the CFL. Maybe one day he'll say something that's worthy of a listen but until then he's lost this reader. Addition by subtraction -- I don't even miss him! ;-)

I don't know who the goof even is, so tough to miss that!!

Quote from: The Zipp on June 24, 2025, 07:14:26 PMEdmonton is odd because they did have a pretty good fanbase - what has turned those fans off?  poor team, low chance of seeing a win is likely it.  Winnipeg is booming for lots of reasons but I think it's a very competitive team and the gameday experience.

It may be like my earlier comment re SSK.  Fans will sniff out when you stop respecting them.  It's not winning or losing, it's when you've clearly lost the locker room, have no professionalism, and aren't even trying anymore.  I never got that impression by The Can Mafia, even when every game I attended was a loss.

Just think back to '13-'15 when we lost way more at home than we won.  Stadium was still pretty full (much more full than EDM!) and atmosphere was still great!  I was hooked on IGF atmosphere on my first couple of games back, even with stinky losses!

So it's not just losing.  There's more to it.  Maybe WM should hold a workshop on proper team attitude and stadium atmosphere, and school all of these other clubs!

Quote from: theaardvark on June 24, 2025, 04:00:14 PMCritiquing the fact that the FG try went through the endzone and they still got a point should actually be a termination offence.

Nay.  A jailable offence!  (After a fair trial of course!)  ;)  ;)  ;)  Banish him to the dungeons beneath ancient Castle McMahon!

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 24, 2025, 01:17:30 PMOne thing I hope you're wrong about though is your description of 'why' people watch. If they watch because their Dad did or because it's a fun atmosphere, what happens when it's not a fun atmosphere (Edmonton, Toronto) or even worse, Dads don't watch because they prefer the NFL or other alternatives?

Simple, make the atmosphere fun even when you're losing.  IGF did.

As for TOR, was it their losing that did it?  They are such a mercurial team, but that means any bad year may be followed by a great one.  And who's to say the BMO atmosphere isn't fun?  Does anyone have any experience/reports that say otherwise?

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 25, 2025, 08:02:05 AMSimple, make the atmosphere fun even when you're losing.  IGF did.

As for TOR, was it their losing that did it?  They are such a mercurial team, but that means any bad year may be followed by a great one.  And who's to say the BMO atmosphere isn't fun?  Does anyone have any experience/reports that say otherwise?

Is it even possible to create a fun atmosphere with 1/5 full buildings? And if it is "fun", and it's still 1/5 full, what does that say about the theory that a fun atmosphere is directly related to overall fan interest?

If your next argument is to say it's because those teams aren't winning, I agree with you to an extent, but Hamilton regularly out draws Toronto and Hamilton hasn't won anything in forever. The lowest in stadium NFL attendance was around 92.2% in Jacksonville. 92.2% would be the best crowd Calgary will get all year, for perspective.

Maybe there are other factors at play here.

Agree with Techno CFL is fun when you are dominate like we are now, when you are average and when you suck.  CFL is very entertaining and there are always two teams on the field and a lot of talent and unexpected fun plays.

Been going to games my entire life, have enjoyed every one of them.  Seen the lean years.  The tough times make the good ones even better.  We have built something so special, enjoy the ride everyone.

The small crowds still make a lot of noise!  And I'm sure they are having fun.

Comparing attendance % between NFL and CFL is not a fair comparison.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 25, 2025, 11:50:17 AMIs it even possible to create a fun atmosphere with 1/5 full buildings? And if it is "fun", and it's still 1/5 full, what does that say about the theory that a fun atmosphere is directly related to overall fan interest?

If your next argument is to say it's because those teams aren't winning, I agree with you to an extent, but Hamilton regularly out draws Toronto and Hamilton hasn't won anything in forever. The lowest in stadium NFL attendance was around 92.2% in Jacksonville. 92.2% would be the best crowd Calgary will get all year, for perspective.

Maybe there are other factors at play here.

and that is exactly what the CFL should be looking at - I would hope they have but nothing would surprise me at this point given the multi year debacle with they had with statistics and their "partnership" with Genius sports.

Marketing and research companies should be able to identify the challenges in each market and pinpoint what is working  in some areas and build a multi year plan in conjunction with each team.

Sask's attendance problems are partly due to home games on a Thursday night.
Sask fans come from all over the province, but they're not driving from Swift Current or Prince Albert, or even Saskatoon on a Thursday night. Then have to drive home after the game. It's so dumb. I know this because I have friends and relatives in Sask. This is the same reason Saskatoon will never get an NHL team. No way the rest of the province is driving to Saskatoon on a Tuesday night in the middle of winter for a game. Regina alone can't support the team, and the same goes with Saskatoon. We have very dedicated fans from all over the province, but I bet it's a real pain to those who do drive here for Thursday games.
I know this doesn't speak for Toronto or Edmonton having attendance issues. That's a whole other discussion .. but I think that Regina's attendance would be better off having games on Friday nights or Saturday nights. Their stadium would be much fuller.

I also want to say .. I salute the "out of town" Blue Bomber fans that drive into Winnipeg for those Thursday night games. That's true dedication.

Quote from: wpg#1 on June 25, 2025, 03:06:09 PMSask's attendance problems are partly due to home games on a Thursday night.
Sask fans come from all over the province, but they're not driving from Swift Current or Prince Albert, or even Saskatoon on a Thursday night. Then have to drive home after the game. It's so dumb. I know this because I have friends and relatives in Sask. This is the same reason Saskatoon will never get an NHL team. No way the rest of the province is driving to Saskatoon on a Tuesday night in the middle of winter for a game. Regina alone can't support the team, and the same goes with Saskatoon. We have very dedicated fans from all over the province, but I bet it's a real pain to those who do drive here for Thursday games.
I know this doesn't speak for Toronto or Edmonton having attendance issues. That's a whole other discussion .. but I think that Regina's attendance would be better off having games on Friday nights or Saturday nights. Their stadium would be much fuller.

Doesn't explain why their attendance is the same on weekend nights.

Quote from: Jesse on June 25, 2025, 03:36:29 PMDoesn't explain why their attendance is the same on weekend nights.

True, they have an unbelievably long lists of reasons not to attend games, they should change the name from Mosaic Stadium to "The Field of Endless Excuses".  If I was O'Day I'd start convincing the best Sask. players across the league to come home and promote the Sask. pride angle, like the Bombers have achieved with Wpg. natives. Frankly it's an angle no other CFL team has put any effort into, most teams have no identity, they're little more than a congregation of random players that change frequently in the eyes of most fans.

Is it time to start blacking out regional games?  If you want to drive gate...

I know it will never happen in this day and age, especially with the size of the TSN deal, but that worked...

Quote from: Jesse on June 25, 2025, 03:36:29 PMDoesn't explain why their attendance is the same on weekend nights.

This is just the rumblings I'm hearing from friends and family.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 25, 2025, 11:50:17 AMIs it even possible to create a fun atmosphere with 1/5 full buildings? And if it is "fun", and it's still 1/5 full, what does that say about the theory that a fun atmosphere is directly related to overall fan interest?

Then you have a catch-22 chicken & egg problem.  Not fun because not full.  Not full because not fun.

There are some ways to solve that: paper the stadium full with free tickets for everyone (including 1 free beer! remember the singing frog skit in bugs bunny), or buy the audience for $1M like Doman in game 1.  But then you can't put on a snoozefest 1st H like BC did...

Quote from: wpg#1 on June 25, 2025, 03:06:09 PMSask's attendance problems are partly due to home games on a Thursday night.

Yes, SSK probably gets impacted more than anyone by Thu games.  And if SSK knows this is a thing (they have the real attendance numbers, not just sold tickets), they should tell the CFL that they should have zero Thu home games scheduled.

As for "are they really staying home" proof when looking at attendance numbers this season, the reality may be obscured because:

1) Prior STHs just didn't renew when they see so many Thu games (if you can't make 2-4 games a season, why buy a STH?)

2) Many STH may stay home on Thu but show up for Fri/Sat games, yet the announced attendance numbers will show them as butts-in-seats regardless.

What we need is the CFL/teams to also announce butts-in-seats numbers, not just paid (and free/papered(!) attendance).  For example, even WFC papers the stadium "sold out" many times a year by giving away hundreds of tickets (or more!) to various groups.  Are those really "sell outs"?  "Paid attendance" should exclude the giveaways... then you might have a situation where butts-in-seats number exceeds the paid attendance!

Agree we should get stats on butt's in the stands, I always try to estimate it.  Would be nice to know.

Plus Willllson  has a super punchable face to boot. lol

OK, Wilson watched our game last night, and if you delete his first tweet, you'd think he was actually Canadian and had played CFL ball...

Luke Willson@LWillson_82

As my esteemed colleague has pointed out. Tonight was an absolute ELECTRIC FACTORY ⚡️. This is what the CFL is at times!! To add more context to some of the numbers Dustin has below, not only were there minimal QB sneaks, barely any penalties, but also the game featured 11 explosive pass plays (15+ yards), 7 explosive runs (10+) both teams had 100% scoring efficiency in the RZ. 734 combined net yards. @ZCollaros7
 was in Godmode. This guy is world class. 83% completion percentage. Plus the late TD he ran in was sick. THIS IS FOOTBALL. GREAT FOOTBALL. It's incredible to watch, it's incredible for the league, and it does wonders for youth football across the country!!!

Great product like this will keep the 30+ thousand coming back. Winnipeg is doing it right. They have figured out the blueprint!

Thank you for pointing out those numbers Dustin, and great job on the play by play tonight 🫡

I'm okay if Luke Wilson thinks the Riders and Argos suck most especially. He might just be a Bombers fan and not know it yet.

The predictable damage control.

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on June 26, 2025, 01:46:51 AMPlus Willllson  has a super punchable face to boot. lol

:D

Quote from: bomb squad on June 27, 2025, 04:18:08 PMThe predictable damage control.

With a gun to the head some people will say anything.  I'd be happy if his comments did not become a focus on this forum and I can get back to not caring about his opinions.

Smells like someone told him to touch up his act or he will get the axe from TSN. lol

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on June 27, 2025, 06:08:06 PMSmells like someone told him to touch up his act or he will get the axe from TSN. lol

Commissioner Stewie defended him yesterday on the CJOB pre-game show, but someone at TSN may have delivered a different message.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 27, 2025, 06:14:41 PMCommissioner Stewie defended him yesterday on the CJOB pre-game show, but someone at TSN may have delivered a different message.

How so? (Defended him, that is). I didn't hear it.

lucas gonna be hating this game

penalties galore

sloppy play

Quote from: bomb squad on June 27, 2025, 08:37:15 PMHow so? (Defended him, that is). I didn't hear it.

Basically he said all opinions were welcome, even if controversial it brings more debate and attention to the league.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 28, 2025, 03:01:26 AMBasically he said all opinions were welcome, even if controversial it brings more debate and attention to the league.

Thanks

Stirring the pot?

Now he's suggesting only 1 Olineman should count towards ratio. 

I get the idea, make it harder to "hide" Nat starters on the oline, and develop more "skill" position players.  But I'd say that there is nothing wrong with hoggies, or their skill sets qualifying them as starters, or any advantage to using an Int Olineman over a Nat other than $SMS and availability. And "ratio breakers" still make better bucks than Olinemen in general.  Top Nats, regardless position, will get paid.

If you have to limit one position to a ratio contribution, you'd have to add in a mandatory Nat starter in other groups.  Which then becomes unwieldly, and again, drives up $SMS for Nats.

I do still think we need a mandatory Nat QB on roster, preferrably dressed as a 4th QB, non-counter unless you have a top 3 Nat QB.

 

Quote from: theaardvark on July 02, 2025, 10:04:55 PMStirring the pot?

Now he's suggesting only 1 Olineman should count towards ratio. 

I get the idea, make it harder to "hide" Nat starters on the oline, and develop more "skill" position players.  But I'd say that there is nothing wrong with hoggies, or their skill sets qualifying them as starters, or any advantage to using an Int Olineman over a Nat other than $SMS and availability. And "ratio breakers" still make better bucks than Olinemen in general.  Top Nats, regardless position, will get paid.

If you have to limit one position to a ratio contribution, you'd have to add in a mandatory Nat starter in other groups.  Which then becomes unwieldly, and again, drives up $SMS for Nats.

I do still think we need a mandatory Nat QB on roster, preferrably dressed as a 4th QB, non-counter unless you have a top 3 Nat QB.

 

I would much prefer a cap on NATs in a certain positional group like Wilson is suggesting rather than a mandatory minimum on a position where there isn't enough depth.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 02, 2025, 10:04:55 PMNow he's suggesting only 1 Olineman should count towards ratio. 

0. Don't demean my hoggies.  If you think they don't have "skill", you watch how well a team does that has garbage ones.

1. Any new rule that complicates things, especially the ratio, only makes the CFL worse.  KISS

2. Teams this year are using anywhere from 1 NAT to 4 NATs on OL.  There is no need to restrict anything.  Let teams allocate their DP & FA$ as they see fit.

3. There are not enough "skill" NATs to go around -- AND to have NAT backups for them!  They won't magically appear if there is more demand.  Ford, and Kramdi, and Sanchez are very rare creatures.  All you'd get is teams dressing 2-3 more NAT RECs that are worse than JFG.

4. You would devastate the market for low and mid-tier NAT hoggies, and the total OL unit quality would go down because there aren't even enough IMP hoggies to go around as it is!

Quote from: theaardvark on July 02, 2025, 10:04:55 PMStirring the pot?

Now he's suggesting only 1 Olineman should count towards ratio. 

I get the idea, make it harder to "hide" Nat starters on the oline, and develop more "skill" position players.  But I'd say that there is nothing wrong with hoggies, or their skill sets qualifying them as starters, or any advantage to using an Int Olineman over a Nat other than $SMS and availability. And "ratio breakers" still make better bucks than Olinemen in general.  Top Nats, regardless position, will get paid.

If you have to limit one position to a ratio contribution, you'd have to add in a mandatory Nat starter in other groups.  Which then becomes unwieldly, and again, drives up $SMS for Nats.

I do still think we need a mandatory Nat QB on roster, preferrably dressed as a 4th QB, non-counter unless you have a top 3 Nat QB.

 

There are too many roster rules as it is.

Just change it to 8 starting Nationals and get ride of Nationalized Americans, Designated Nationalized Americans and Designated Nationals.

I don't even need to find the quote to probably agree. Want better offensive line play? Let more players play from the football factory down south.

They can still wear the Canada flag on their jersey. Maybe one will become your favorite player. It will be okay.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 03, 2025, 11:18:30 AMI don't even need to find the quote to probably agree. Want better offensive line play? Let more players play from the football factory down south.

They can still wear the Canada flag on their jersey. Maybe one will become your favorite player. It will be okay.

BC started 4 Int Oline this year.  And how'd that work out?

"Hiding" ratio on the Oline has been done forever because it is the easiest position to have competitiveness between Nat and Int players.  The CFL 3down game is different, and Canadian hoggies grew up with the blocking schemes and yard off the ball. 

Yes, Int receivers have a field day with wider fields and waggle, and DB's have to adapt to that and the extra man on the field, but the off the snap reaction that happens on the Oline is ingrained in an Olineman, and adapting to it is not that simple.

Sure, the US has more than 10x the population and even higher number of Oline that don't quite make the NFL. But the Nat's that don't make the NFL have a distinct advantage of having the muscle memory of having grown up 3 down.

Nat hoggies get paid more, and are harder to replace, for sure.  But "hiding" ratio on the oline has a reason.  You have to have 7 Nat starters, and if you can put together almost half of that with 3 solid Nat hoggies that on average play 18 games a year, every year, well, they are worth the extra.

That's another reason for Nat hoggies, stability.  "Skill" players are less likely to play 18 games, every year.  And when one goes down, its harder to replace him.

Ratio is working, and the fact we have 2 Nat QB starters in the league now, and that we had an MOP/MOC combo in a GC and in a regular season says that the "skilled" spots are doing just fine, and don't need any help from limiting Oline ratio.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 03, 2025, 04:44:50 PMBC started 4 Int Oline this year.  And how'd that work out?

"Hiding" ratio on the Oline has been done forever because it is the easiest position to have competitiveness between Nat and Int players.  The CFL 3down game is different, and Canadian hoggies grew up with the blocking schemes and yard off the ball. 

Yes, Int receivers have a field day with wider fields and waggle, and DB's have to adapt to that and the extra man on the field, but the off the snap reaction that happens on the Oline is ingrained in an Olineman, and adapting to it is not that simple.

Sure, the US has more than 10x the population and even higher number of Oline that don't quite make the NFL. But the Nat's that don't make the NFL have a distinct advantage of having the muscle memory of having grown up 3 down.

Nat hoggies get paid more, and are harder to replace, for sure.  But "hiding" ratio on the oline has a reason.  You have to have 7 Nat starters, and if you can put together almost half of that with 3 solid Nat hoggies that on average play 18 games a year, every year, well, they are worth the extra.

That's another reason for Nat hoggies, stability.  "Skill" players are less likely to play 18 games, every year.  And when one goes down, its harder to replace him.

Ratio is working, and the fact we have 2 Nat QB starters in the league now, and that we had an MOP/MOC combo in a GC and in a regular season says that the "skilled" spots are doing just fine, and don't need any help from limiting Oline ratio.

Better than if they started 4 Canadian OL who don't exist?

Luke calling out the ticats fans for not travelling the 45 mins to toronto to watch their team.

he has a point. 

i actually like the fact he is making these "controversial" comments - gets the convo going. 

he is heading to Saskatchewan next week so he should have a better experience. 

Quote from: The Zipp on July 05, 2025, 11:22:48 PMLuke calling out the ticats fans for not travelling the 45 mins to toronto to watch their team.

he has a point. 

i actually like the fact he is making these "controversial" comments - gets the convo going. 

he is heading to Saskatchewan next week so he should have a better experience. 

That's what he was hired for.

Luke go to a stylist and get a man's haircut.  The 80s were 45 years ago. And stop copying Muamba. Shut for a second, and let someone else talk. Do not race a guy in a cow suit.  I mean did some seven year old like watching a fat former player have a head start and beat some clown in a cow suit?

What happened to all the other panelists
TSN you should be. Begging to bring  back Matt!

Quote from: Jesse on July 06, 2025, 12:43:50 AMThat's what he was hired for.

Yup

Quote from: The Zipp on July 05, 2025, 11:22:48 PMLuke calling out the ticats fans for not travelling the 45 mins to toronto to watch their team.

he has a point. 

i actually like the fact he is making these "controversial" comments - gets the convo going. 

he is heading to Saskatchewan next week so he should have a better experience. 

I agree.  He's actually the best thing to happen to the CFL/TSN in a long time

Quote from: bluengold204 on July 07, 2025, 07:14:21 AMHe's actually the best thing to happen to the CFL/TSN in a long time

(https://y.yarn.co/d784085d-69cc-40bf-b255-8fd0594e1fb0_text.gif)

Who ?

Quote from: BlueFire on July 07, 2025, 09:23:53 PMWho ?

Lukey McPunchface

luke wilson ranks the cfl fanbases:


CFL FAN BASE RANKINGS
JUNE 7th, 2025 *present day, not historic

1) Winnipeg Blue Bombers- crowd sell outs! And it's not just the sell outs but it seems like the people genuinely are locked into the games and really give a ****. This is the dream. If the CFL can get 3/4 more teams to have the fan base and support that Winnipeg has.. 📈📈📈 it will be COOKING. Want to add there seems to be some great local media people! I'm excited to be out there in a couple weeks.

2) Saskatchewan Roughriders - I know they are most likely mad at me at the 2 spot, it's a tight race. Sask seems like the dream. The province as a whole is doing a tremendous job with the sport of football from a grassroots level, all the way up. The reasons they aren't #1 are because of the slight drop in attendance/sell outs. I'm not sure why that's happened... And also two fans, one is emperor numpty (don't name him, he is looking for clicks) and some guy named Steve who incessantly tweets and me, sometimes with selfies. With the Mace and O'day combo at the helm plus having the CFL's Jason Bourne (A.J. Ouellette). Look for some sell outs in the near future. Local media seems really solid. Couple loudmouth numpties but the rest seem awesome. Salute Sask 🫡

3) Montreal Alouettes
Montreal is humming. They consistently average over 20k fans a game and they are passionate. The stadium was rocking for the home opener. Online it seems as if the MTL fans want to league to continue to grow. They understand the task. Great look for Al's fans. Nice work!

4) BC Lions - controversial take here but the BC Lions have some really good fans overall and I think that more people in Van and surrounding areas follow the Lions than people realize. Even though I've had many battles with some fans online I must give them their flowers. It's a really tough situation for the product too, bush league facilities, and a stadium that seats 54,000 makes it's hard to really create that product, but the fans still support! 💪🏼

5) Calgary Stampeders - I haven't been to Calgary so I'm on the fence about this rating. I've been told the fans they are extremely fair weather. If the team is solid they should up, if not they don't care. I hope this rumor is false. No one likes front runner fans. The quantity of fans relatively speaking is getting them the rating over the next few teams

6) Ottawa Redblacks - a small but mighty group. The redblacks receive the 6 place nod for quality over quantity. The fans show up on game day and they care. It's just unfortunate there isn't more of them. The stadium is in a great area, fun atmosphere. Would love to see them in the top of this board. It's possible!!

7) Edmonton Elks - these fans have gone through a lot. From a name change, to brutal on field game outcomes. It's a bloodbath in Edmonton. What was once a crown jewel, is now the poster child on what numpties do for the league. I respect the fans that have stuck through it though!

8) Toronto Argonauts - the fans are older, they are fewer, but they are really locked in. Friday night when they were down, they are still there trying to rally their team. It's just unfortunate how few of them exist. A real head scratcher considering AI tells me 10/15k Canadians show up to Bills home games every week.

9) Hamilton Ticats - there seem to be a few awesome fans but overall what a fraudulent gong show. As an Ontario boy, growing up, I would always hear about the Ticats fans... what a myth...Even for home games, empty seats everywhere... "everyone is drinking on the concourse" what a bush league ordeal, that's something I would expect from the corporate hacks who watch the leafs play in regular season, not Hamilton Ti-cat fans. These fans aren't interested in their team just some block party. I hope they prove me wrong and sell out a game to actually WATCH it but as for now, no hope out of me. Also crazy amount of numpties. Very nasty people online. Where did the true Oskee Wee Wee people go? Please come back!

Nevermind, Luke! We actually love you!!

Jk. After #1 and #2 most of that is an awfully ignorant take on the fanbases. Especially Hammy fans which I think are pretty great. Calgary ranked way too high and he essentially admits why in his description but does it anyway?

Luke is the best, most amazing TSN personality and he should be commended for his work particularly around fanbase ranking. We also agree that Rider fans are simple, especially the selfie taking ones.

ha.  I like his take about Hamilton fans.  It's so true.  For years, many of their fans would claim online that the reason the stands were half-empty despite announcing attendance of 22-24,000 seemingly every game is that people were watching from the concourse.  Uh, yeah..if there were 10,000 people on the concourses it would be wall to wall people from end-to-end.  In fact, you might not be able to fit that many people on the concourse to begin with.

The fact is there are many no-shows for Ti-Cat games.  It's been that way for years.  I also read comments from a couple of ti-cat fans on their forum that the team is giving away more tickets to boost attendance...some of which are going unused.

Saskatchewan is to high.
They can barely half fill there glorious new stadium, while the team is always competitive and they get number 2? Pffft, nope!

Much of the Bombers financial success comes from the on field success.

Its much easier to be a booster of a winning team.  When your bandwagon sells seasons tickets and has a waiting list, you know things are good.

Other teams see blips of fan base surge when they have some success, and huge drops when they struggle.  EDM's dynasty kept that huge stadium full, and now they have to give tickets away. 

New ownership in some cities is making an impact, for sure, and getting rich corporate owners in places like TO and CGY to invest more in promoting the teams would go a long way to making a difference. 

Quote from: The Zipp on July 05, 2025, 11:22:48 PMLuke calling out the ticats fans for not travelling the 45 mins to toronto to watch their team.

Haha, considering the TOR fans don't travel the 35 mins to get to their own stadium!  LOL.  If I lived in any of those cities I'd go to all HAM, TOR, OTT and MTL games.  I love driving.

Quote from: The Zipp on July 08, 2025, 07:30:33 PM9) Hamilton Ticats - there seem to be a few awesome fans but overall what a fraudulent gong show

HAM is a split base.  There's tons of "normal" fans like you'd see in WPG, who sit and love watching.  Tons of passion.  Tons of pain from not winning those 2 GCs.  But they are great fans.

Then there are the rowdy rough drunks, who, a TOR friend of mine who goes sometimes tells me, give the fan base a bad name.

HAM, once always full (probably 3rd place in attendance), suffered from the same effect as SSK and EDM the last few years: perpetually losing and showing no respect to the fans by trying to improve caused tons of STH to quit for good.  None of those 3 teams have been able to get those fans back.  They'll need to generate new fans.

Luke is right about CGY: very fairweather.  And they all show up late, like really late.  With the "real" tailgates, CGY may be the true "it's a big party" rather than a football game.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 10, 2025, 03:49:17 PMMuch of the Bombers financial success comes from the on field success.

Its much easier to be a booster of a winning team.

Ya, but then I'll once again mention, as I always do, that WPG was selling tons of tickets, even some sell-outs, when they stunk rocks in '13-'15.

As long as the team and org shows respect for the fans, and shows continued efforts to improve, I think WPG fans will remain loyal even if we lose badly for 3 years.  The Can Mafia may have taken a looong time to "get there", but they always showed effort and respect.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 12, 2025, 01:45:57 AMYa, but then I'll once again mention, as I always do, that WPG was selling tons of tickets, even some sell-outs, when they stunk rocks in '13-'15.

As long as the team and org shows respect for the fans, and shows continued efforts to improve, I think WPG fans will remain loyal even if we lose badly for 3 years.  The Can Mafia may have taken a looong time to "get there", but they always showed effort and respect.

We've also had season where the number of people in the stands were counted in the hundreds, not thousands.

Those years after the stadium were built were kind of inflated. We had a bunch of new season ticket holders due to the promise of being able to pick seats in the new stadium and those boosted numbers held strongish during those tough years. Thankfully, the team started turning it around or it would have gotten rough.

Quote from: Jesse on July 12, 2025, 02:03:14 AMThose years after the stadium were built were kind of inflated.

Then what's New Mosaic's excuse?  They have their new "beautiful" stadium too.

Quote from: Jesse on July 12, 2025, 02:03:14 AMWe've also had season where the number of people in the stands were counted in the hundreds, not thousands.

Those years after the stadium were built were kind of inflated. We had a bunch of new season ticket holders due to the promise of being able to pick seats in the new stadium and those boosted numbers held strongish during those tough years. Thankfully, the team started turning it around or it would have gotten rough.

100s? I'll call BS.
We've been averaging 24000+ since around 2000.

Quote from: RebusRankin on July 12, 2025, 02:51:35 AM100s? I'll call BS.
We've been averaging 24000+ since around 2000.

I would call BS in that average in a few of those years, but I was talking about the late 90s. You could count the number of people in the stands.

No reason to pretend we haven't had some lean seasons. It happens to every team.

Make sure everyone gives Luke a nice warm welcome to Winnipeg next Friday. lol

Luke was in Regina last night at the game and walked around the concourse visiting fans.  He's one tall dude.

Quote from: Jesse on July 12, 2025, 04:42:13 AMI would call BS in that average in a few of those years, but I was talking about the late 90s. You could count the number of people in the stands.

No reason to pretend we haven't had some lean seasons. It happens to every team.

incorrect. Even the Tim Burke or Mike Kelly years the club would still get 22,000-25,000 consistently.

Quote from: Jesse on July 12, 2025, 04:42:13 AMI would call BS in that average in a few of those years, but I was talking about the late 90s. You could count the number of people in the stands.

No reason to pretend we haven't had some lean seasons. It happens to every team.

Don't agree, can't recall ever seeing Wpg. stadium more than half empty like some other stadiums have been the last few years.  The lowest season ticket sales would still have been 12-15k during the lean years.

Quote from: Jesse on July 12, 2025, 04:42:13 AMI would call BS in that average in a few of those years, but I was talking about the late 90s. You could count the number of people in the stands.

No reason to pretend we haven't had some lean seasons. It happens to every team.

Even during the darkest of the dark times, I don't think attendance was ever even remotely that low.

The WFC claims an average of over 20K going back to 1971: https://www.bluebombers.com/blue-bombers-history/

QuoteThe club has averaged more than 20,000 in attendance each and every year since 1971, and as a percentage of capacity the Bombers' attendance is probably unmatched elsewhere over the long run.

John Hodge appears to have done the math back in 2021: https://3downnation.com/2021/03/25/how-cfl-attendance-has-changed-over-the-past-fifty-years-with-a-close-look-at-b-c-and-toronto/

(https://static.3downnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Att-West.jpg)

No sources cited, so take these figures for what you will. I see no reason to doubt them, though.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 13, 2025, 06:37:36 PMEven during the darkest of the dark times, I don't think attendance was ever even remotely that low.

The WFC claims an average of over 20K going back to 1971: https://www.bluebombers.com/blue-bombers-history/

John Hodge appears to have done the math back in 2021: https://3downnation.com/2021/03/25/how-cfl-attendance-has-changed-over-the-past-fifty-years-with-a-close-look-at-b-c-and-toronto/

(https://static.3downnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Att-West.jpg)

No sources cited, so take these figures for what you will. I see no reason to doubt them, though.

I appreciate that. But this is where a bit of a double standard comes in that we apply to other teams but not our own.

There were some heavily papered crowds in some of those years. And if you went to some of those games in the Reinbolt years, you would not claim there were 20k people there.

We're also applying some modern standards to past data. Right now, teams averaging 20k seems like a pipedream. At the time, averaging that number was a fight for survival that nearly drove the entire league to bankruptcy many times.