sad to see him go but i guess he didn't want to sit on the PR, he will be on an AR very soon...maybe Calgary with the Begelton injury?
The @Wpg_BlueBombers bring back long snapper Ian Leroux, release WR Reggie White, Jr
that was from Ed Tait
Not great news. Lost some depth and Benson must be hurt medium term?
Tait: Mike Benson exited the game with an injury. FYI, if Benson is out long-term the club may look to bring back Ian Leroux
So I guess that is the case. Surprised it was White going. Kind of feeling that D. Mitchell is here for a long time now. Hopefully he rewards the coaches who kept him.
Anyone remember who our next best receiver from camp was? A guy we cut but might bring back if we have further injuries?
Not surprised they brought back Leroux with the injury to Benson. Whether that is short or long term it wasn't a bad idea. Benson will end up on IR but we don't know if it's 1 game or 6 game. IMO it will be 6 game. Unfortunate.
Releasing White I didn't anticipate directly but OTOH, I don't know we'll keep all the 1 game IR players on the injury list indefinitely. We see some further shuffling or additions.
We have 2 or 3 spots open on PR depending on whether we shuffle Weitz back to the PR this week.
Quote from: Blueforlife on June 16, 2025, 12:36:31 PMAnyone remember who our next best receiver from camp was? A guy we cut but might bring back if we have further injuries?
That would be Myron Mitchell but we have Case and D. Mitchell here already so I think that's still one more injury away.
Blue Bombers Transactions - June 16,2025
WINNIPEG, MB., June 16, 2025 – The Winnipeg Blue Bombers today announce the following transactions:
Added to practice roster:
National long snapper Ian Leroux (6-1, 225, Laval)
Released from practice roster:
American receiver Reggie White Jr.
We knew someone had to go if Leroux had to return.
Quote from: Pigskin on June 16, 2025, 04:02:34 PMWe knew someone had to go if Leroux had to return.
I don't think that is correct. PR is 13 if you have 2 globals on the PR. Our PR was only 11 with 1 global so I think we had PR room for 1 more non global.
If Benson is injured then Leroux will be added to the AR this week in theory. Gauthier and Novak both have experience but Leroux has that more specific talent.
I am curious, with the rugby/aussie rules, there is no "long snapper", but they do have guys that make that similar motion, has any global ever been looked at as a LS?
Is it something we can train a Global to do?
I remember the story about Cvetkovitch getting his camp invite using someone elses game film (when film was film, and grainy) and faking it until he made it, and had a long career...
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 16, 2025, 12:39:48 PMNot surprised they brought back Leroux with the injury to Benson. Whether that is short or long term it wasn't a bad idea. Benson will end up on IR but we don't know if it's 1 game or 6 game. IMO it will be 6 game. Unfortunate.
Releasing White I didn't anticipate directly but OTOH, I don't know we'll keep all the 1 game IR players on the injury list indefinitely. We see some further shuffling or additions.
We have 2 or 3 spots open on PR depending on whether we shuffle Weitz back to the PR this week.
I don't see the point of hanging on to Weitz, they have plenty of LB's and enough Globals with Sheahan and Bailey.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 16, 2025, 04:39:46 PMI don't see the point of hanging on to Weitz, they have plenty of LB's and enough Globals with Sheahan and Bailey.
I agree. A global LB falls way down on any sort of need on the roster. Especially after drafting 3 LB's. Lots of belief by some that we should add Bailey to the AR. It's at the cost of a Canadian but might be worth considering for depth at DE.
The transactions on CFL.CA show Sheahan moved to PR???? Does that mean Castillo handles all kicking and do we see Bailey added as the global without needing to take a Canadian off the roster?
I was not expecting this move so don't really understand what's going on. That was a decision to be made in TC if they intended or considered a change. Will we see the other global punter added possibly?
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 16, 2025, 10:23:53 PMThe transactions on CFL.CA show Sheahan moved to PR???? Does that mean Castillo handles all kicking and do we see Bailey added as the global without needing to take a Canadian off the roster?
I was not expecting this move so don't really understand what's going on. That was a decision to be made in TC if they intended or considered a change. Will we see the other global punter added possibly?
I wouldn't read too much into it yet -- might just be a play for time. Maybe another team has put in for one of our PR players and we're putting that player on the active roster to block the move? This would allow for a temporary shuffle. Not sure, but it's possible. Wouldn't also be the first time the transaction page was wrong.
We also have to get Collaros on and Artopoeus to the PR so it might just be one of several moves and not all were posted yet.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 16, 2025, 10:42:58 PMI wouldn't read too much into it yet -- might just be a play for time. Maybe another team has put in for one of our PR players and we're putting that player on the active roster to block the move? This would allow for a temporary shuffle. Not sure, but it's possible. Wouldn't also be the first time the transaction page was wrong.
I don't know about that. I thought in order to block another team from a PR player, you have to activate him for 3 games. In any case, that's a bit drastic a reaction to remove the punter?
The best I can come up with is it was done in order to add Bailey and not remove a Canadian from the AR. I don't know if I've seen a player moved from AR to PR and back to AR in the same week.
I'm guessing he isn't playing this week.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 16, 2025, 10:54:24 PMI don't know about that. I thought in order to block another team from a PR player, you have to activate him for 3 games. In any case, that's a bit drastic a reaction to remove the punter?
The best I can come up with is it was done in order to add Bailey and not remove a Canadian from the AR. I don't know if I've seen a player moved from AR to PR and back to AR in the same week.
I'm guessing he isn't playing this week.
Maybe they asked Artopoeus to go to the PR for Collaros and he's thinking about it or negotiating a higher practice roster salary and it's just an interim move?
There could be a few reasons, is what I mean. It would be really weird to banish your only punter to the practice roster especially after playing his usual game.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 16, 2025, 10:54:24 PMI don't know about that. I thought in order to block another team from a PR player, you have to activate him for 3 games. In any case, that's a bit drastic a reaction to remove the punter?
The best I can come up with is it was done in order to add Bailey and not remove a Canadian from the AR. I don't know if I've seen a player moved from AR to PR and back to AR in the same week.
I'm guessing he isn't playing this week.
You were right about Global punter James Evans, sitting on the Riders PR to this very day, after refusing the Bombers PR offer. Must think the sun shines brighter in Sask!
Ya go figure on that one
No question who runs the better program
And I heard that you don't live longer living in Saskatchewan it just seems like it!!
Quote from: Blueforlife on June 16, 2025, 12:36:31 PMAnyone remember who our next best receiver from camp was? A guy we cut but might bring back if we have further injuries?
White was the next best REC. But we just let him walk. Why would we sign the next-next-best REC when we could have just kept White?
I'm actually quite shocked White was released before D.Mitchell. D is costing us a lot... he better not let us down.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 17, 2025, 05:55:16 AMWhite was the next best REC. But we just let him walk. Why would we sign the next-next-best REC when we could have just kept White?
I'm actually quite shocked White was released before D.Mitchell. D is costing us a lot... he better not let us down.
On the Coach's show MOS explained that White initially told him he did not want the PR and maybe one week was all he was willing to do. That is what ended up happening. MOS had plenty good to say about him.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 16, 2025, 10:54:24 PMI don't know about that. I thought in order to block another team from a PR player, you have to activate him for 3 games. In any case, that's a bit drastic a reaction to remove the punter?
The best I can come up with is it was done in order to add Bailey and not remove a Canadian from the AR. I don't know if I've seen a player moved from AR to PR and back to AR in the same week.
I'm guessing he isn't playing this week.
How happy would Sheahan be to lose a game cheque? I still feel come Friday we'll find out he is playing.
Quote from: Waffler on June 17, 2025, 12:29:39 PMHow happy would Sheahan be to lose a game cheque? I still feel come Friday we'll find out he is playing.
i agree - he will play, can Castillo punt? did he punt in practice?
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 17, 2025, 12:40:49 AMMaybe they asked Artopoeus to go to the PR for Collaros and he's thinking about it or negotiating a higher practice roster salary and it's just an interim move?
There could be a few reasons, is what I mean. It would be really weird to banish your only punter to the practice roster especially after playing his usual game.
There was room on the PR to add Artopeus or even the 1 game IR. Regardless, adding Sheahan to the PR would be totally unrelated to any move for the extra QB.
The QB will have to be moved off the AR. Whether he goes to IR or PR we'll see.
EDIT: Just checked and I don't see any team with a QB on their PR. It's not common but it does happen usually related to an injury.
Quote from: The Zipp on June 17, 2025, 01:26:04 PMi agree - he will play, can Castillo punt? did he punt in practice?
Yes he can punt. It's been a few years but early in his career he handled all duties. Most teams now specialized with 2 kickers on their rosters.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 17, 2025, 01:27:27 PMYes he can punt. It's been a few years but early in his career he handled all duties. Most teams now specialized with 2 kickers on their rosters.
Anyone
can punt and you're overselling it. He "handled all duties" consistently once, in 2017, over his 9 year career in the CFL. The last time he punted in a CFL game was 2022 and over 8 attempts that season he had an average of 38.5 yards and average net of only 33.25.
...That is ummmm, not good?
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 17, 2025, 02:14:10 PMAnyone can punt and you're overselling it. He "handled all duties" consistently once, in 2017, over his 9 year career in the CFL. The last time he punted in a CFL game was 2022 and over 8 attempts that season he had an average of 38.5 yards and average net of only 33.25.
...That is ummmm, not good?
Not everyone can punt. We wouldn't have a global kicker if that was true. He has 44 yard career average. I never said I wanted him to be the punter but he could be if necessary. It's just all speculation as to why Sheahan was moved to PR reportedly.
Using 2022 and 8 punts is you overselling your case.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 17, 2025, 02:24:31 PMNot everyone can punt. We wouldn't have a global kicker if that was true. He has 44 yard career average. I never said I wanted him to be the punter but he could be if necessary. It's just all speculation as to why Sheahan was moved to PR reportedly.
Using 2022 and 8 punts is you overselling your case.
Lol you can go back to 2019 as the next year he attempted a punt if you like. That was 6 years ago. He had a whopping 20 punts that campaign.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 17, 2025, 02:26:21 PMLol you can go back to 2019 as the next year he attempted a punt if you like. That was 6 years ago. He had a whopping 20 punts that campaign.
Again. I said he can punt not that he should. He'd certainly be the in game replacement punter.
Quote from: Waffler on June 17, 2025, 12:26:52 PMOn the Coach's show MOS explained that White initially told him he did not want the PR and maybe one week was all he was willing to do. That is what ended up happening. MOS had plenty good to say about him.
Should have stuck Mitchell on the PR, at least White showed up ready to play.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 17, 2025, 05:55:16 AMWhite was the next best REC. But we just let him walk. Why would we sign the next-next-best REC when we could have just kept White?
I'm actually quite shocked White was released before D.Mitchell. D is costing us a lot... he better not let us down.
D isn't actually costing us a lot, his price was high, but a lot of sunk money in his bonus. His game cheques are less that ELC, IIRC.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 17, 2025, 04:04:48 PMShould have stuck Mitchell on the PR, at least White showed up ready to play.
Mitchell was signed to be a primary receiver. His current game check is about ELC level after the big signing bonus. Wheatfall beat him out and played well in game 1.
In any case, we'll see if anything changes this week, even if only in practice. Does he show a renewed desire and effort or is he in coast mode?
It will be very interesting to see if our choices at receivers come back to haunt us. Hopefully we will figure it out. I was floored by our depth previously but now it's average imo.
I'd like to see Sterns have a good game this week now that Collaros is back. OTOH, he's the 5th target and that's not easy to do. That said, if he's not being targeted or drawing coverage to open other receivers, that's an issue.
IIRC, someone said he was open quite a bit in game 1. So we should at least give him some opportunities.
I wonder how is blocking is? He's not a very big player.
I also mentioned last week that I wondered if the Bombers have any interest in Hollins. He'd be the same SMS as Mitchell at the moment since both got significant bonus money early. He might still end up depth behind Wheatfall but is he a better choice on the 1 game IR?
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 17, 2025, 05:48:32 PMI'd like to see Sterns have a good game this week now that Collaros is back. OTOH, he's the 5th target and that's not easy to do. That said, if he's not being targeted or drawing coverage to open other receivers, that's an issue.
IIRC, someone said he was open quite a bit in game 1. So we should at least give him some opportunities.
I wonder how is blocking is? He's not a very big player.
I also mentioned last week that I wondered if the Bombers have any interest in Hollins. He'd be the same SMS as Mitchell at the moment since both got significant bonus money early. He might still end up depth behind Wheatfall but is he a better choice on the 1 game IR?
Clercius is the 5th target, usually limited to 2-3 passes per game, Sterns should be seeing 5-7 passes short passes inside plus a few jet sweeps. White was the biggest Import receiver going into TC, he had at least 25 lbs. of muscle over the other candidates. If Mitchell can't play Sterns role, he's going to have to wait for Schoen or Wheatfall injuries, hopefully that's a long wait.
Regardless sunk money and game cheques, pretty sure this team doesn't keep Mitchell in camp if they do not see upside.
He has been a top receiver in the past, and came to camp out of shape. How long he needs to get back in shape and earn his spot, who knows.
Its a minimal investment, and he must be doing the right things at practice to stay in the teams/coaches good books. There is no doubt that M Mitchell was much more a rah rah effort guy in camp, and there was question about D Mitchell's mindset when camp started... I guess he's changed his attitude.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 17, 2025, 06:33:28 PMClercius is the 5th target, usually limited to 2-3 passes per game, Sterns should be seeing 5-7 passes short passes inside plus a few jet sweeps. White was the biggest Import receiver going into TC, he had at least 25 lbs. of muscle over the other candidates. If Mitchell can't play Sterns role, he's going to have to wait for Schoen or Wheatfall injuries, hopefully that's a long wait.
In theory. I was speaking more about the reality in game 1. Clercius was targeted 3 times and Sterns was targeted once. Even in pre-season Clercius was getting targeted more often.
Mitchell his first three season. Averages 632 yard per season, 4 TDs, and he's 130/200 targets for 59%.
Bailey from 2021-2023. Average 622 per season, 6.6 TDs, he was 161/237 targets for 68%.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 17, 2025, 07:20:05 PMIn theory. I was speaking more about the reality in game 1. Clercius was targeted 3 times and Sterns was targeted once. Even in pre-season Clercius was getting targeted more often.
Need to be careful drawing conclusions with that kind of analysis.
We do not know how many times either was the primary receiver and it doesn't tell you how the defense defended either guy. It's quite possible that for some of those underneath looks Clercius got, the receiver clearing out was Sterns, for example. I'm not going to go look, but the receiver spot that Clercius plays sometimes gets wide side looks that defenses intend to give up. Sterns from the slot doesn't get that kind of coverage probably ever.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 17, 2025, 07:20:05 PMIn theory. I was speaking more about the reality in game 1. Clercius was targeted 3 times and Sterns was targeted once. Even in pre-season Clercius was getting targeted more often.
Receiver preference will be determined by Zach and how much he trusts his targets, Clercius did a good job of catching whenever thrown to last season but he wasn't targeted much. Don't see that changing this season either, with so many great targets to choose from, he's sort of the forgotten option.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 17, 2025, 06:33:28 PMClercius is the 5th target, usually limited to 2-3 passes per game, Sterns should be seeing 5-7 passes short passes inside plus a few jet sweeps.
I'm not sure about that. You'd think it should be true. But back when Woli was Clercius and Bailey was Sterns, it was usually pretty even ball distribution between Woli/Bailey.
Sterns saw 1 (maybe 2?) targets in game 1? Pretty much same as Clercius 1 target (and great YAC that got us a tough 1st down).
Quote from: theaardvark on June 17, 2025, 06:47:16 PMHe has been a top receiver in the past, and came to camp out of shape. How long he needs to get back in shape and earn his spot, who knows.
I didn't hear anything to indicate he was physically out of shape. Every presser where they talk D.Mitchell has always, as you also said, indicated it's his headspace.
Headspace can be a much more difficult thing to overcome. Think C.Matthews when he returned. His heart was never in it.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 18, 2025, 03:56:49 PMClercius did a good job of catching whenever thrown to last season but he wasn't targeted much. Don't see that changing this season either, with so many great targets to choose from, he's sort of the forgotten option.
To be good enough to win cups you need your 2nd NAT to be at least as good as Woli. Woli was always reliable for some clutch conversions and a few TDs. Clercius MUST become at least as good as '19 Woli. I want every REC to be a legit scoring threat.
I found the Benson injury play. Well, sort of.
2Q1:23 after the snap Benson starts running downfield, right when the camera is panning off of him you see he's fallen down. There are 2 team B STers around him at the time, but it doesn't appear they touch him.
In prior snaps he gets blown up pretty good. One punt snap the rusher plows him into one of the personal defenders. Benson almost certainly would have fallen down backwards if not for that friendly player in the way. That would have been a penalty. (Interesting Rempel-rule exception here... blow up the LS all you want but make sure he doesn't fall down by using other players to absorb the hit.)
My guess is something got twitchy on the prior hits and acted up big time on the snap he falls down after.
I have no idea how a "hip injury" can do this. Maybe others can guess. On the upside, maybe it's not too bad, though these hips seem to linger a long while.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 19, 2025, 03:35:34 AMTo be good enough to win cups you need your 2nd NAT to be at least as good as Woli. Woli was always reliable for some clutch conversions and a few TDs. Clercius MUST become at least as good as '19 Woli. I want every REC to be a legit scoring threat.
This is just made up nonsense. Every receiver is a "legit scoring threat" on every passing play. The rest of this is just poorly formed opinion on top of another poorly formed opinion.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 19, 2025, 03:20:59 AMI'm not sure about that. You'd think it should be true. But back when Woli was Clercius and Bailey was Sterns, it was usually pretty even ball distribution between Woli/Bailey.
Sterns saw 1 (maybe 2?) targets in game 1? Pretty much same as Clercius 1 target (and great YAC that got us a tough 1st down).
There's no order system to targets.
They will each get a couple of designed plays to keep the defence honest, I'm sure. But beyond that, when a play goes long enough Zach is just searching for the first open guy he can find and it'll depend on where he's getting chased and who finds the open area he's looking at.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 19, 2025, 03:24:50 AMI didn't hear anything to indicate he was physically out of shape. Every presser where they talk D.Mitchell has always, as you also said, indicated it's his headspace.
Headspace can be a much more difficult thing to overcome. Think C.Matthews when he returned. His heart was never in it.
I think the same thing. He IS in shape. At times he looks like an incredible athlete. He can run and make moves that make you notice.
To illustrate what I've seen, one particular punt return drill they were rotating 4 guys doing the fielding. They all know Sheahan's kicks can land anywhere and are moving as soon as it's in the air. When it's Mitchell's turn he watches it, watches it and then halfheartedly runs to the sideline but not getting there on time. It's a head scratcher. Then next one he looks like he belongs again. You'd think he would know that to make a team you have to go all out all the time. He's not a vet here.
Quote from: Waffler on June 19, 2025, 02:51:46 PMI think the same thing. He IS in shape. At times he looks like an incredible athlete. He can run and make moves that make you notice.
To illustrate what I've seen, one particular punt return drill they were rotating 4 guys doing the fielding. They all know Sheahan's kicks can land anywhere and are moving as soon as it's in the air. When it's Mitchell's turn he watches it, watches it and then halfheartedly runs to the sideline but not getting there on time. It's a head scratcher. Then next one he looks like he belongs again. You'd think he would know that to make a team you have to go all out all the time. He's not a vet here.
FIFO...he is probably getting some extra time and coaching on this but at some point the patience will run out and he will be released if no improvement.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 19, 2025, 12:21:02 PMThis is just made up nonsense. Every receiver is a "legit scoring threat" on every passing play. The rest of this is just poorly formed opinion on top of another poorly formed opinion.
Disagree I'm with Techno, it's not nonsense imo
We need him to match what Woli brought
Not all Nat. receivers are a legit scoring threat
Good example Jeff Drover. Loved the guy for depth but he was a once and awhile throw an under route to guy.
Quote from: Waffler on June 19, 2025, 02:51:46 PMI think the same thing. He IS in shape. At times he looks like an incredible athlete. He can run and make moves that make you notice.
To illustrate what I've seen, one particular punt return drill they were rotating 4 guys doing the fielding. They all know Sheahan's kicks can land anywhere and are moving as soon as it's in the air. When it's Mitchell's turn he watches it, watches it and then halfheartedly runs to the sideline but not getting there on time. It's a head scratcher. Then next one he looks like he belongs again. You'd think he would know that to make a team you have to go all out all the time. He's not a vet here.
They might be struggling to break some of Mitchell's bad habits which stem from poor focus. Biggest flaw many receivers have is not running routes hard when they know they're not the primary target on that play, they tend to coast and good DB's can read this in their body language. Bombers don't seem to have any of this type, Schoen established himself quickly through his work ethic, he runs every route authentically at high speed whether the ball is coming to him or not.
Quote from: Blueforlife on June 19, 2025, 05:15:15 PMDisagree I'm with Techno, it's not nonsense imo
We need him to match what Woli brought
Not all Nat. receivers are a legit scoring threat
Good example Jeff Drover. Loved the guy for depth but he was a once and awhile throw an under route to guy.
You can agree with him if you like, and that would make you wrong also. Pretty easy to understand why:
Not withstanding the fact it makes no sense to say that in order to win a Grey Cup in 2025 our 2nd Canadian receiver has to provide the same yardage output as our 2nd Canadian receiver in 2019, the answer to the question of output in that year was 361 yards on the season. That's 20.5 yards per game. Clercius can probably do that, but even if he does, it will have no correlation to whether we win the Grey Cup. None.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 19, 2025, 05:49:54 PMYou can agree with him if you like, and that would make you wrong also. Pretty easy to understand why:
Not withstanding the fact it makes no sense to say that in order to win a Grey Cup in 2025 our 2nd Canadian receiver has to provide the same yardage output as our 2nd Canadian receiver in 2019, the answer to the question of output in that year was 361 yards on the season. That's 20.5 yards per game. Clercius can probably do that, but even if he does, it will have no correlation to whether we win the Grey Cup. None.
Nah, understating the value of a good Canadian receiver like Woli. One of the keys to a cup run. Techno was right and so am I imo. Canadian depth driven league. Agree to disagree.
I have no worried about Clercuis. He has the tools. He just needs to step up at the big show like Techno said.
A team wins because of the glue. These two gentlemen are "sticky".
Stats are not the only way to value ones importance to a ball club. I value the blocking they provide, the tight routes and also following assignments to keep others open. A lot more than the yardage #'s imo that come into play. The starting Canadians receivers are a key part to any ball club in this league and always will be. They help win cups imo.
Starting Canadians that have an IMPACT on the game, yes, you win with those ie Harris in his Hey Day, Brady running for 1400 yds. Guys who get 20 yds a game receiving on check down routes, not so much. You need guys who make plays, big plays, and lots of them, not 8 yard check down curls. Toronto made more plays than we did in last years Grey Cup and get full credit to beating us. They were the better team that day. Our play makers didn't make plays, theirs did. its simple
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 19, 2025, 05:49:54 PMYou can agree with him if you like, and that would make you wrong also. Pretty easy to understand why:
Not withstanding the fact it makes no sense to say that in order to win a Grey Cup in 2025 our 2nd Canadian receiver has to provide the same yardage output as our 2nd Canadian receiver in 2019, the answer to the question of output in that year was 361 yards on the season. That's 20.5 yards per game. Clercius can probably do that, but even if he does, it will have no correlation to whether we win the Grey Cup. None.
I agree that Clercius with Collaros at qb can match Woli, but whether he does or not its the reciever group as a whole that needs to execute. If Schoen, Demski and Wheatfall end up being 1000 yd recievers then it really doesnt matter what Clercius does in yardage, its more important when he makes catches to extend drives.
Quote from: dd on June 20, 2025, 12:44:29 AMStarting Canadians that have an IMPACT on the game, yes, you win with those ie Harris in his Hey Day, Brady running for 1400 yds. Guys who get 20 yds a game receiving on check down routes, not so much. You need guys who make plays, big plays, and lots of them, not 8 yard check down curls. Toronto made more plays than we did in last years Grey Cup and get full credit to beating us. They were the better team that day. Our play makers didn't make plays, theirs did. its simple
TOR is a great example. Their absolute nobody Brissett ate us alive for 2 TDs in the GC. That's part of why they won. Their 5th-read (we thought) placeholder NAT ended up costing us the most TDs.
And Brissett mostly did all his damage on "8 yard check down curls". Every play was pretty short in terms of yards from scrimmage. But he clearly is a legit scoring threat and should have a great year in '25 (once Kelly is back).
Quote from: Blueforlife on June 19, 2025, 07:06:22 PMNah, understating the value of a good Canadian receiver like Woli. One of the keys to a cup run. Techno was right and so am I imo. Canadian depth driven league. Agree to disagree.
Ya, think back to when our placeholder NAT was JFG. Nice guy and all, and he tried, but he was like half a Woli in terms of getting the job done. And our O game suffered all the years he was here.
And I don't care about yards or TDs, it's also about 2nd down conversions and tough catches in the middle. It's about YAC and toughness. When we had our 2019-2021 line-up with Woli our O was at its strongest because every last REC was a legit threat, none were NAT placeholders, and they all contributed, and usually in a (bit) more of an equal way in terms of targets.
Woli would catch that deep rail go route. JFG never. did. even. once.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 19, 2025, 05:49:54 PMNot withstanding the fact it makes no sense to say that in order to win a Grey Cup in 2025 our 2nd Canadian receiver has to provide the same yardage output as our 2nd Canadian receiver in 2019
Straw man. I never said yards. I said "at least as good as". This means in all aspects that Woli was good at: blocking, YAC, conversions, clutch catches, yards, TDs... everything. Sure, the mix can be a bit different, but overall we need that 5th (4th?) spot to provide the same general level to beat these powerhouse E teams.
See my comment about Brissett.
Also, see how MTL creamed us in '23 GC with that wicked Philpot (NAT REC for MTL) final game-winning TD. If he was just a placeholder, does MTL win that game? It's silly to say these NAT RECs don't matter if they don't produce.
Compare with pure ratio placeholder NAT RECs: Mathis, Busby, Ternowski, etc. Still lots of bad RECs there purely to meet the ratio.
And it makes sense, as it's the same as if you have rookie or weaker IMP RECs kind of just taking up space. That's also a big reason why we lost the '24 GC. If we had Schoen healthy and Wheatie out, do we do better? (Notwithstanding Wheatie's heretofore great, potential breakout, '25 season.)
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 19, 2025, 12:21:02 PMThis is just made up nonsense. Every receiver is a "legit scoring threat" on every passing play.
Every REC is a scoring threat. Not every REC is a
legit scoring threat. Not every REC gets taken completely seriously by the D. And definitely not every REC will get double-teamed!
A "legit" scoring threat, which Woli was, is one who can catch it in the EZ in traffic, survive contact, be able to catch the falling-backwards or diving ones, etc. Ternowski can't do it. Woli could.
How many guitar-strumming-man TDs @IGF with Woli over the years??
Clercius seems OK, but he hasn't done anything near what Woli did. How many Clercius TDs so far? Ya...
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 20, 2025, 06:56:23 AMEvery REC is a scoring threat. Not every REC is a legit scoring threat. Not every REC gets taken completely seriously by the D. And definitely not every REC will get double-teamed!
A "legit" scoring threat, which Woli was, is one who can catch it in the EZ in traffic, survive contact, be able to catch the falling-backwards or diving ones, etc. Ternowski can't do it. Woli could.
How many guitar-strumming-man TDs @IGF with Woli over the years??
Clercius seems OK, but he hasn't done anything near what Woli did. How many Clercius TDs so far? Ya...
Facts:
Wolitarsky has 18 touchdowns over 6 full seasons which works out to 3 a season. He didn't even play much his first season in the CFL (5 games). You seem to be a big fan of his, and that's cool, but 3 touchdowns a year is not particularly impressive. Demski had 2 with a backup QB in our first game.
Over to Clercius: He had one TD in his rookie year while dressing every game.
There's no reason to compare them. Even if you're set on it, and you want to use the narrow scope of TDs or yards, is there really any narrative here helps? Or would it be more fair to say Wolitarsky was a fan favourite and played guitar which is fun and we cheered extra hard for him and wish him well?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 20, 2025, 06:56:23 AMEvery REC is a scoring threat. Not every REC is a legit scoring threat. Not every REC gets taken completely seriously by the D. And definitely not every REC will get double-teamed!
A "legit" scoring threat, which Woli was, is one who can catch it in the EZ in traffic, survive contact, be able to catch the falling-backwards or diving ones, etc. Ternowski can't do it. Woli could.
How many guitar-strumming-man TDs @IGF with Woli over the years??
Clercius seems OK, but he hasn't done anything near what Woli did. How many Clercius TDs so far? Ya...
Meh, Woli was not that physically talented and was a plodding route runner, he caught most passes thrown his way, but he was not spectacular like Lawler. Intelligence was his gift, he knew where to be and when to be there, and developed a great relationship reading Zach's mind. Countless CFL receivers have filled this role over time from Ben Cahoun to Darren Flutie, they're worth is invaluable to team success.
Clercius is more of a physical specimen and seems steady but he hasn't done anything yet to distinguish his style of play, IMO he's still behind Woli in terms of value to the team, the difference is age.
As for JFG I think we've been through this argument before, he's not a good example of a poor Natl. receiver, he was a steady, shifty receiver who played with grit who could also return punts if called upon. Of course he was below Demski level, but most CDN receivers are, he fits in the category of Gord Patterson when compared to Joe Poplawski. He also played with Matt Nichols who was not as daring or as skilled as Zach hitting the deeper routes.