WINNIPEG — The Winnipeg Blue Bombers announced on Friday the club has signed quarterback Zach Collaros to a one-year contract extension through the 2026 Canadian Football League season.
Collaros is entering his sixth season with the Blue Bombers and has firmly established himself as one of the greatest pivots in franchise history.
His 49 regular season wins ranks third in franchise history behind only Ken Ploen (82) and Dieter Brock (71) and his 16,177 passing yards is fifth in Blue Bombers history. Collaros has now suited up for 158 career CFL games with Toronto (2012-13), Hamilton (2014-17), Saskatchewan (2018-19) and Winnipeg (2019-). His 32,935 career passing yards ranks 17th in CFL history and his next passing TD will be the 200th of his career.
https://www.cfl.ca/2025/05/23/bombers-extend-quarterback-zach-collaros-through-2026/
#untilhes40
I know he's been great but when you add up the accomplishments and consider he's only been here four full seasons (plus two regular season games and playoffs in 2019) it's pretty amazing where he ranks as a Blue Bombers QB.
Will go down as one of the Bomber greats all time!
Honestly until we a get a look at the numbers I have no idea what to think of this, luv Zac but he is no longer head and shoulders above the other qbs in the league so hopefully his salary is more in line with the current qb structure.
Hopefully we used a significant marketing portion so as we don't put ourselves in the same cap situation as the past.
Well, it takes the "are you going to retire after this season" discussion off the table.
Doesn't rule out it happening, though. Contracts are not guaranteed, either way, barring injury. I really hope there is not a lot of guaranteed money, or signing bonus involved, as that takes away from other signings I think we should make.
Marketing money, we need to spend a minimum, and we made $7mil last year, so give him all you want there. Even if he retires, he can still earn marketing money.
Quote from: Pete on May 23, 2025, 08:34:24 PMHonestly until we a get a look at the numbers I have no idea what to think of this, luv Zac but he is no longer head and shoulders above the other qbs in the league so hopefully his salary is more in line with the current qb structure.
Hopefully we used a significant marketing portion so as we don't put ourselves in the same cap situation as the past.
Zach if healthy is a top tier QB and yes is expensive but worth every penny and has earned that money each year. Give him protection and a good run game and he will light it up. He will groom the next Bomber QB to be sure.
Quote from: Pete on May 23, 2025, 08:34:24 PMHonestly until we a get a look at the numbers I have no idea what to think of this, luv Zac but he is no longer head and shoulders above the other qbs in the league so hopefully his salary is more in line with the current qb structure.
Hopefully we used a significant marketing portion so as we don't put ourselves in the same cap situation as the past.
Zach's agent drives a hard bargain and I can't see him accepting a discount after his client put the Bombers in the Grey Cup game 5 years straight. I expect he'll still make $500k+ which is in the range of the top tier QB's, which should be ok budget wise as long as Walters realizes he doesn't have to overpay to find good receivers and running backs. Until Zach fails to produce like BLM did for a few seasons, his pay rate is not likely coming down much for this new contract.
the thing is other than Chad Kelly Zacs cap hit is 150k more than any other qb in the league.
Meaning instead of Lawler we get Mitchell.
I myself am not sure on this one. Depends how he performs in the playoffs.
He has been only ok in playoff games lately.
He has no excuses this year. No Lawler fine but he has Schoen Demski and Clercius and any one a couple good others who make the team. Top notch RB and higher graded OL.
I'd like to see him be more careful with the ball this year and not throw so many interceptions.
Reserve final judgement.
Quote from: Pete on May 23, 2025, 11:22:08 PMthe thing is other than Chad Kelly Zacs cap hit is 150k more than any other qb in the league.
Meaning instead of Lawler we get Mitchell.
I don't know how you calculate where Rourke's salary fits in, but I don't believe it.
Rourke is at AT 650K with 200K in marketing money so his cap hit is 450K (chad kelly has 125K in marketing money reducing his cap hit to 490K. After that the next highest is Adams at 465K)
https://3downnation.com/2025/04/14/qb1-money-cfls-highest-paid-quarterbacks-for-the-2025-season/
Zach is still a top-3 QB. He's smart, cool as a cucumber, and he knows how to win.
Clearly Mafia is extremely happy with what they've seen of Zach in TC. Probably no (more) loss of arm strength, showing up in shape, etc. Why not lock him down now? If he goes deep in the playoffs again his FA26 $ would be quite high indeed.
We should 100% be working $200k of his contract into Magic Marketing Money. Until the league stops it, match what cheater BC is doing. If Zach doesn't like being out with the plebes, just have him do a weekly podcast or something. $10k a podcast.
I bet the total salary is just a bit of a bump from his existing one. That would put it close to $600k, right? That's fair, he's better than Rourke and at least as good as Kelly -- the only other guys earning that much.
I see only 3 weak points with Zach, and most are fixable:
1) His wind up is slow, giving DBs (and LBs!) a chance to jump the routes, and sometimes making passes to running RECs slightly behind. This bites us every GC. (Fixable??)
2) He follows the "rules of the QB" to the T, and gets fooled by smart OCs/teams. He sees the WILL blitzing, he throws to the weak side hot route. But smart teams like TOR have a LBer or DB hiding right there who cut across and either get the INT or limit us to a tiny gain. You watch him and you'll see this happen all the time. Happens in most GCs. (Fixable: spot the tricks, more film study)
3) His arm is really only good for 45-50Y or so now. (Not fixable, but you can work around it)
All in all this is an astute move by WFC. Heck, if we have a ton of the "new $400k" leftover by Dec we can pay him a huge chunk from that.
Zac's strength has always been the 20-30 yatd throw which he reads better than any qb in league.
His escape ability has declined whether its age or teams studying film not sure.
The other area of concern is his tendancy to lock into one receiver snd throw into coverage at times although with Lawler gone that may actually help. In the past he really relies on vets he knows which can lead to overuse and lead to injuries ie Demski, Ly he didnt have much choice but to go to Wilson more as Demski was banged up as usual at end of year
Hopefully with new offensive coach we develop shorter game utilizing Sterns and even Logan more.
I do agree he can still be effective just needs to tweak his game much like BLM did.
My recollection is ..........when Zac leaves a collapsing pocket, he always goes to his right.
That has to make defending easier.
And He's no spring chicken.
But He has certainly earned whatever he gets from the Bombers.
He has been average to slightly above average since mid-2023. Until last season's west final he had never played a very good playoff game in his entire career with the Bombers. The Grey Cup was yet another mediocre to bad performance from Zach which we have seen all too often - outplayed by the opposition QB time and again. His TD - INT ratio was pretty poor last year as well.
It's clear his play has declined - noticeably less arm strength, very noticeable lower mobility (check out that 2019 game against Calgary where he scrambled before throwing a TD at the end of regular season and compare that to the present).
He has had a strong team around him pretty much his entire tenure here, although the strength and depth has declined the past few seasons. He has also had the advantage of having among the best running backs in the game at his disposal pretty much his entire tenure here, lessening the pressure on him to throw and scramble for first downs.
Given this, it would be very disappointing if Walters did not negotiate a pay cut to at around 500,000 - 550,000. Offhand, I remember Bo Levi Mitchell taking a significant paycut in Hamilton after his 2023 season. Why couldn't Zach do the same for the Bombers this season to help the team out in a Grey Cup hosting year? Is it because a portion of his salary is guaranteed (250,000 or so?) which doesn't allow the team to re-negotiate the total salary? Was Walters too afraid to ask him for a paycut? Or was Zach not willing to do what was good for the team?
Quote from: markf on May 24, 2025, 02:55:26 PMMy recollection is ..........when Zac leaves a collapsing pocket, he always goes to his right.
That has to make defending easier.
And He's no spring chicken.
But He has certainly earned whatever he gets from the Bombers.
maybe so but the shortest route to cap problems is to pay for past performance vs what you think will be a reasonable anticipated future performance.
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 24, 2025, 10:13:58 PMGiven this, it would be very disappointing if Walters did not negotiate a pay cut to at around 500,000 - 550,000. Offhand, I remember Bo Levi Mitchell taking a significant paycut in Hamilton after his 2023 season.
BLM has basically been hot garbage since we embarrassed him/them in the '19 WSF. You can't compare top-of-his-game record-yardage-year 5-straight-GCs Zach to BLM.
As such I guarantee Zach got a contract the same or more than whatever he gets this year. It may even be as high as $50k more than this year. That's why I hope we are making BC-level use of MMM (TM).
If it's not Collaros, what's your plan for 2026?
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 24, 2025, 10:13:58 PMHe has been average to slightly above average since mid-2023. Until last season's west final he had never played a very good playoff game in his entire career with the Bombers. The Grey Cup was yet another mediocre to bad performance from Zach which we have seen all too often - outplayed by the opposition QB time and again. His TD - INT ratio was pretty poor last year as well.
It's clear his play has declined - noticeably less arm strength, very noticeable lower mobility (check out that 2019 game against Calgary where he scrambled before throwing a TD at the end of regular season and compare that to the present).
He has had a strong team around him pretty much his entire tenure here, although the strength and depth has declined the past few seasons. He has also had the advantage of having among the best running backs in the game at his disposal pretty much his entire tenure here, lessening the pressure on him to throw and scramble for first downs.
Given this, it would be very disappointing if Walters did not negotiate a pay cut to at around 500,000 - 550,000. Offhand, I remember Bo Levi Mitchell taking a significant paycut in Hamilton after his 2023 season. Why couldn't Zach do the same for the Bombers this season to help the team out in a Grey Cup hosting year? Is it because a portion of his salary is guaranteed (250,000 or so?) which doesn't allow the team to re-negotiate the total salary? Was Walters too afraid to ask him for a paycut? Or was Zach not willing to do what was good for the team?
Disagree with most, overstating the negative on Zach imo. His numbers as a Bomber are exceptional. Older, less mobile yes but he can still sling it just fine imo. He will earn his salary if healthy. He will help groom the next gen. If the OL can start strong, so will Zach.
Terrible comparison with BLM, who went from hero to zero after injury trouble. Zach will never be a zero.
Zach has a lot of weapons this year, just needs to be protected and he will be a top 3 QB imo. He will throw some ducks but who doesn't.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on May 25, 2025, 02:47:21 AMThat's not a plan.
Worked for Willy, Nichols and then Zach! (Well, if you count a trade the ostensibly-last game before FA as FA. Call it "FA-ish".)
We would be a top destination for any top-3 QB who was up for a new contract. We have never been shy about paying near-top dollar. Who wouldn't want to become the next GC-attending Bomber franchise QB? It's an easy sell.
The alternative "plan" would be to dev a future top-3 guy and hope he becomes that superhero precisely the moment Zach decides to retire. We've sort of been playing that game for like 3 years now. Dru could have been "it", but the timing was off. Even if Wilson looks like the next Alexander this season, if Zach stays 1-2 more seasons then he's likely gonzo because you can't carry a $600k QB + a $400k next-years-guy.
Pretty much every team gets their main QB from FA. It's ok to admit it.
...literally zero of those guys were signed in free agency.
Quote from: markf on May 24, 2025, 02:55:26 PMMy recollection is ..........when Zac leaves a collapsing pocket, he always goes to his right.
That has to make defending easier.
And He's no spring chicken.
But He has certainly earned whatever he gets from the Bombers.
More of a fall turkey at this point lol
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 24, 2025, 10:13:58 PMHe has been average to slightly above average since mid-2023. Until last season's west final he had never played a very good playoff game in his entire career with the Bombers. The Grey Cup was yet another mediocre to bad performance from Zach which we have seen all too often - outplayed by the opposition QB time and again. His TD - INT ratio was pretty poor last year as well.
It's clear his play has declined - noticeably less arm strength, very noticeable lower mobility (check out that 2019 game against Calgary where he scrambled before throwing a TD at the end of regular season and compare that to the present).
He has had a strong team around him pretty much his entire tenure here, although the strength and depth has declined the past few seasons. He has also had the advantage of having among the best running backs in the game at his disposal pretty much his entire tenure here, lessening the pressure on him to throw and scramble for first downs.
Given this, it would be very disappointing if Walters did not negotiate a pay cut to at around 500,000 - 550,000. Offhand, I remember Bo Levi Mitchell taking a significant paycut in Hamilton after his 2023 season. Why couldn't Zach do the same for the Bombers this season to help the team out in a Grey Cup hosting year? Is it because a portion of his salary is guaranteed (250,000 or so?) which doesn't allow the team to re-negotiate the total salary? Was Walters too afraid to ask him for a paycut? Or was Zach not willing to do what was good for the team?
So, I think you may have been spoiled by Zach's MOP seasons. Looking around the league, Zach's performance hasn't been league average. He still deserves to be paid as a top half of the league QB and, over the last couple of years, that's in the 550k+ territory. With the salary cap going up, top QBs will easily clear 600k+. And that's just earning the same percentage of the cap as before. Maybe Zach takes a hit; but that is not how he, his agent, and the Bombers have negotiated in the past and I don't expect it now.
We clearly had a rough start to last year. There were umpteen different reasons for that. We were able to put it together and make another Grey Cup appearance. We made different roster building decisions going into this year and some of the rough patches we lived through last season with too many rookies will also help out this year.
Whatever Zach negotiated for 2026, it makes no difference on 2025. FA has come and gone, the only thing a pay cut helps is the Bombers bottom line, which doesn't help us on the field.
Quote from: Jesse on May 25, 2025, 02:25:12 PMSo, I think you may have been spoiled by Zach's MOP seasons. Looking around the league, Zach's performance hasn't been league average. He still deserves to be paid as a top half of the league QB and, over the last couple of years, that's in the 550k+ territory. With the salary cap going up, top QBs will easily clear 600k+. And that's just earning the same percentage of the cap as before. Maybe Zach takes a hit; but that is not how he, his agent, and the Bombers have negotiated in the past and I don't expect it now.
We clearly had a rough start to last year. There were umpteen different reasons for that. We were able to put it together and make another Grey Cup appearance. We made different roster building decisions going into this year and some of the rough patches we lived through last season with too many rookies will also help out this year.
Whatever Zach negotiated for 2026, it makes no difference on 2025. FA has come and gone, the only thing a pay cut helps is the Bombers bottom line, which doesn't help us on the field.
I suspect Walters may have initiated the extension, no proof but as soon as the draft is over he likely begins to think about next year and what the team will look like. If you take Zach off the table, the only established vets that might be available next season are Maier, Fajardo, Arbuckle and MBT, all of which had to settle for second best coming into this season.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on May 25, 2025, 02:03:31 AMIf it's not Collaros, what's your plan for 2026?
Streveler looked good in yesterday's game I thought.
He's been shortchanged. By the team, and the fans. You can see it in the discussion right here.
Quote from: markf on May 25, 2025, 03:40:07 PMStreveler looked good in yesterday's game I thought.
He's been shortchanged. By the team, and the fans. You can see it in the discussion right here.
Strev. threw the ball well, but on second watch I noticed he didn't always choose the best targets, either throwing into tight coverage of multiple defenders or throwing the receiver into dangerous situations. Time will tell, but not convinced he reads the field very well, he needs to find more patience.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on May 25, 2025, 12:15:44 PM...literally zero of those guys were signed in free agency.
I believe Willy was, technically his negotiating rights were acquired in a trade for Jade Etienne, but he was pursued and signed as a FA, after they were rejected by Zach and Henry Burris.
Terry and Chase seemed much better at going through the reads and picking targets than Chris, and after the first bit of trouble with Terry, he seemed to settle in nice.
I was very, very impressed with Chase. It will be nice having him on the roster for the opener, getting him a game cheque before he moves to the PR. I can see why Dolegala and Paterson were let go.
Not going to make Dru Brown comparisons yet, and Terry has years in our system that will keep him on the AR unless Chase really, really outdoes himself. EIther way, its a great thing to have this much real competition in the QB room.
Zach had a bit of an off year in 2024. 2023: 422/4252, 33TDs, 15 Int. 2024: 488/4336, 17 TDs, 15 Int. Yardage up a bit, TDs cut in half.
Castillo was in the same boat. 2023: 51 FGA, 90.2%, 2024: 64 FGA 79.7%. But, with that said Castillo was asked to kick a lot of long FGs in 2024.
This season we need to be better at finishing in the red zero. More 7s, less 3s.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on May 25, 2025, 03:37:55 PMI suspect Walters may have initiated the extension, no proof but as soon as the draft is over he likely begins to think about next year and what the team will look like. If you take Zach off the table, the only established vets that might be available next season are Maier, Fajardo, Arbuckle and MBT, all of which had to settle for second best coming into this season.
Jeff Hamilton said that Zach has been pushing for an extension for a while.
Quote from: Jesse on May 25, 2025, 05:40:15 PMJeff Hamilton said that Zach has been pushing for an extension for a while.
Probably got to thinking about his future career and drew a blank. :D
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on May 25, 2025, 03:58:44 PMeither throwing into tight coverage of multiple defenders or throwing the receiver into dangerous situations.
I think Most cfl quarterbacks do both of those things, including Zach. Some of the passes to Schoen for instance.
Well, I love this. The debate over how good he is at this day and age is fine and I'm here for it, but I have not forgotten the dark days pre-Nichols without a proper QB. You just can't win without one.
As long as Zach is here, we have a chance. Let's #ride this as long as we can regardless of SMS, future development, etc. Win now.
Quote from: blue_or_die on May 25, 2025, 06:28:14 PMWell, I love this. The debate over how good he is at this day and age is fine and I'm here for it, but I have not forgotten the dark days pre-Nichols without a proper QB. You just can't win without one.
As long as Zach is here, we have a chance. Let's #ride this as long as we can regardless of SMS, future development, etc. Win now.
It's encouraging the team is looking stronger as a whole with excellent personnel on both sides of the ball, many of them new replacement players. Last season they were restricted by the amount spent on 4 big names, the losses they suffered outweighed the gains, it could be referred to as "the year of treading water".
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on May 25, 2025, 06:59:56 PMIt's encouraging the team is looking stronger as a whole with excellent personnel on both sides of the ball, many of them new replacement players. Last season they were restricted by the amount spent on 4 big names, the losses they suffered outweighed the gains, it could be referred to as "the year of treading water".
Treading water at the Grey Cup, doesn't really add up. We were exceptional after a terrible start. Agree we are deeper this year, see if that brings us the Ws.
More like drowned at the big show lol.
Quote from: Blueforlife on May 25, 2025, 09:49:29 PMTreading water at the Grey Cup, doesn't really add up. We were exceptional after a terrible start. Agree we are deeper this year, see if that brings us the Ws.
More like drowned at the big show lol.
Injuries played their part but talent wise they dipped last season, they beat the inconsistent West Division teams easy enough but failed to compete against the 2 best Eastern teams. If they can't beat them in the regular season, unlikely to beat them in the playoffs.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 25, 2025, 01:55:17 AMBLM has basically been hot garbage since we embarrassed him/them in the '19 WSF. You can't compare top-of-his-game record-yardage-year 5-straight-GCs Zach to BLM.
As such I guarantee Zach got a contract the same or more than whatever he gets this year. It may even be as high as $50k more than this year. That's why I hope we are making BC-level use of MMM (TM).
Stop being silly. Bo Levi Mitchell was good last year and outplayed Zach. Bo played on an inferior team hence the poorer record.
Why would you pay a clearly declining QB more money?! That's nonsensical. It makes it that much harder to replace other areas of weakness on the club with quality free agents in the off-season.
Quote from: Blueforlife on May 25, 2025, 02:41:26 AMDisagree with most, overstating the negative on Zach imo. His numbers as a Bomber are exceptional. Older, less mobile yes but he can still sling it just fine imo. He will earn his salary if healthy. He will help groom the next gen. If the OL can start strong, so will Zach.
Terrible comparison with BLM, who went from hero to zero after injury trouble. Zach will never be a zero.
Zach has a lot of weapons this year, just needs to be protected and he will be a top 3 QB imo. He will throw some ducks but who doesn't.
His numbers for the past year and half have not been exceptional. Look at his Tds to Ints per game ratio since the middle of 2023 season which are in the bottom-half of the league. In addition, if he was so good, why does he put up mediocre numbers in most playoff games? Why does the opposing QB in the Grey Cup continually outperform Zach?
Bo Levi Mitchell took a significant paycut in 2024...something like $350,000 for the season. He put up 5400 passing yards and 32 TDs leading the CFL in both categories playing on a bad Ticat team.
Quote from: Jesse on May 25, 2025, 02:25:12 PMSo, I think you may have been spoiled by Zach's MOP seasons. Looking around the league, Zach's performance hasn't been league average. He still deserves to be paid as a top half of the league QB and, over the last couple of years, that's in the 550k+ territory. With the salary cap going up, top QBs will easily clear 600k+. And that's just earning the same percentage of the cap as before. Maybe Zach takes a hit; but that is not how he, his agent, and the Bombers have negotiated in the past and I don't expect it now.
We clearly had a rough start to last year. There were umpteen different reasons for that. We were able to put it together and make another Grey Cup appearance. We made different roster building decisions going into this year and some of the rough patches we lived through last season with too many rookies will also help out this year.
Whatever Zach negotiated for 2026, it makes no difference on 2025. FA has come and gone, the only thing a pay cut helps is the Bombers bottom line, which doesn't help us on the field.
A salary of $550,000 would be the most he should make even with a rising salary cap. His TD to INT ratio has been pretty bad since the middle of 2023 season. A pay cut in the offseason would have helped the Bombers sign better players for the D-line or linebacker...or maybe bring Janarion back which was a big mistake by Walters as our returns were awful pretty much all season.
Speaking of which, imagine having janarion back there for the Grey Cup in 2024 instead of awful Lucky Whitehead whose boneheaded play played a big role in losing us the Grey Cup.
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 25, 2025, 10:55:16 PMHis numbers for the past year and half have not been exceptional. Look at his Tds to Ints per game ratio since the middle of 2023 season which are in the bottom-half of the league. In addition, if he was so good, why does he put up mediocre numbers in most playoff games? Why does the opposing QB in the Grey Cup continually outperform Zach?
Bo Levi Mitchell took a significant paycut in 2024...something like $350,000 for the season. He put up 5400 passing yards and 32 TDs leading the CFL in both categories playing on a bad Ticat team.
Over stating the negative on Zach imo and terrible comparison imo. A true vetern leader that yes who's production maybe have peaked but his run as a Bomber great all time will continue. His numbers as a Bombers are exceptional. If he get protection this year, Hogan figures out the offensive and our weapons are healthy, I see a good year for him with a little duck hunting along the way. I'll keep my positive take on Zach and the club, seen your consistent posts on the other side. That's good though we need balance here. Zach is worth every penny, always has been, always will be (as long as he is healthy).
We have a good DL and exceptionally deep at LB, non issue handled internally.
Those that turned on Zach early last year enjoyed some choice bird. I believe it will be served again. I'll eat humble pie of I'm wrong but I doubt it and would put money on Zach....being money yet again. Go Blue! I see us cooking something special, again.
Quote from: Blueforlife on May 25, 2025, 11:21:04 PMOver stating the negative on Zach imo and terrible comparison imo. A true vetern leader that yes who's production maybe have peaked but his run as a Bomber great all time will continue. His numbers as a Bombers are exceptional. If he get protection this year, Hogan figures out the offensive and our weapons are healthy, I see a good year for him with a little duck hunting along the way. I'll keep my positive take on Zach and the club, seen your consistent posts on the other side. That's good though we need balance here. Zach is worth every penny, always has been, always will be (as long as he is healthy).
We have a good DL and exceptionally deep at LB, non issue handled internally.
Those that turned on Zach early last year enjoyed some choice bird. I believe it will be served again. I'll eat humble pie of I'm wrong but I doubt it and would put money on Zach....being money yet again. Go Blue! I see us cooking something special, again.
::) He was not worth $650,000 last year, not even close...not with 17 tds and 15 ints and poor yardage for many of those games. More like a 450000 QB.
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 25, 2025, 11:43:45 PM::) He was not worth $650,000 last year, not even close...not with 17 tds and 15 ints and poor yardage for many of those games. More like a 450000 QB.
Yeah I hate making it to Grey Cup. I had struggling and then being the best teams in the West. I hate consistently getting home field advantage and the buy. I get my nice roasting pan out for later in the season when we cooking lol.
He earned every penny and will again. It's the going rate for a top tier QB. You can continue to over state the negative on him and I'll be here pumping his tires. My compressor is plugged in.
Quote from: Blueforlife on May 25, 2025, 11:47:56 PMYeah I hate making it to Grey Cup. I had struggling and then being the best teams in the West. I hate consistently getting home field advantage and the buy. I get my nice roasting pan out for later in the season when we cooking lol.
He earned every penny and will again. It's the going rate for a top tier QB. You can continue to over state the negative on him and I'll be here pumping his tires. My compressor is plugged in.
:o What a terrible argument. Zach was mostly a passenger with those stats. If we didn't have Oliveira dominating, not to mention a good team defense, the Bomber are certainly a sub .500 team on the outside looking in.
Put the same Zach Collaros on Hamilton and they likely finish with 5 or fewer wins. Put an Alexander or a Kelly or a Mitchell on last year's Bombers and they likely finish with 12 - 14 wins and win the Grey Cup.
Tell me how Zach performed in last year's Grey Cup? And which Qb beat Zach?
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 25, 2025, 11:58:47 PM:o What a terrible argument. Zach was mostly a passenger with those stats. If we didn't have Oliveira dominating, not to mention a good team defense, the Bomber are certainly a sub .500 team on the outside looking in.
Put the same Zach Collaros on Hamilton and they likely finish with 5 or fewer wins. Put an Alexander or a Kelly or a Mitchell on last year's Bombers and they likely finish with 12 - 14 wins and win the Grey Cup.
Tell me how Zach performed in last year's Grey Cup? And which Qb beat Zach?
You compared Zach to BLM which hold no merrit imo.
You claim Zach hasn't earned his salary which I disagree on.
I believe Zach has performed exceptionally well for us over the long term, the entire team has a terrible start and then pulled it together.
Zach is one of the primary reason we have had our success backed by great scouting, good drafting, exceptional management, coaches and good team depth (including some great Canadians). We have had great success running the ball for a decade on the back of two generational talent at RB and a very good OL. That run game was opened up by Zach consistenly throughing dimes and a lot of bombs. Yes our defense, Younger and Hall all contributed to our success. We have been successful due to our incredible team culture. Your comments about being a 500 club hold zero weight imo. That didn't happen, we started terrible and then became the class of the West. We haven't been 500 for a very long time. Zach has won so many games for us (backed by a great team, play calling, etc.)
You comment about Zach on Hamilton hold no weight, is likely wrong, irrelevant and very confused why you would even mention that.
I believe that BLM in Winnipeg wouldn't have had the success Zach did last year. The other two QBs I don't think it's even worth discussing. I take Zach over both all day. That said I really like Alexander. To suggest that any of the three would have had the record you suggest isn't true imo and holds no weight in the discussion here.
The entire club laid an egg at the cup last year, Joe Montana couldn't have won that game. All three phases and coaching were terrible. The three QBs you mention wouldn't have made a difference imo based on how we played.
I define a teams and players success over a long period, you are over focusing on a season and one game. I take the long view, I believe you are not seeing the forest through the trees.
Let's drop it, we both made our points. I am 100% behind Zach, ok with his salary and you are not. We can serve crow come fall as by then we will know what we are and the final dishes won't be served till playoff time.
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 25, 2025, 11:58:47 PM:o What a terrible argument. Zach was mostly a passenger with those stats. If we didn't have Oliveira dominating, not to mention a good team defense, the Bomber are certainly a sub .500 team on the outside looking in.
Using Brady as a crutch isn't the best choice: Brady was pretty bad for the first third of the season, and didn't see the EZ until the midway point. Which is unheard of for a league-best RB.
And Kenny was out half the season, and near useless when he returned (except post-season), and Schoen gone all year, Woli most of the year. Hard to say the rest of the O, which was mostly rookies, carried Zach! If anything it's the other way around. (And, yes, the D being exceptional.)
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 25, 2025, 10:55:16 PMBo Levi Mitchell took a significant paycut in 2024...something like $350,000 for the season. He put up 5400 passing yards and 32 TDs leading the CFL in both categories playing on a bad Ticat team.
Garbage time is a heck of a drug for passing yardage. HAM was in GT more often than not.
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 25, 2025, 10:48:20 PMWhy would you pay a clearly declining QB more money?! That's nonsensical. It makes it that much harder to replace other areas of weakness on the club with quality free agents in the off-season.
Because we have every single year since he signed. I would bet the farm (and more) Zach got the same as '25, and likely a bit more.
If you're asking what us fans would like, ya sure, I'd rather he make $500k, or $400k + 200k MMM, or whatever. But in the end we've structured the entire SMS around QB1 making that much, so it is what it is, and I don't see it changing.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on May 25, 2025, 12:15:44 PM...literally zero of those guys were signed in free agency.
FA or late-season trades or just-pre-FA trades, whatever. The point is we haven't developed a single one of these guys ourselves, which you seemed to hint is what we need to be doing. (Dru doesn't count as we never made him #1 and let him walk due to timing.)
As I said, not only do you have to have the luck of landing a future top-3 guy, you have to luck out on the timing of it so Zach is clearly done right before or during FA.
How many good starters has the CFL churned out in the last 5 seasons? Dru, Kelly, Alexander, Rourke. Jury is still out on Dru & Rourke. In 9 teams, 2 dev QBs, 5 years, 4 hits. With my math that's 4.4% chance we have the "next guy" here in '25.
So ya, my answer is still "FA" or, if you prefer, a trade for a backup guy. But just saying "FA" is way easier than all of the above.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 26, 2025, 06:01:52 AMFA or late-season trades or just-pre-FA trades, whatever. The point is we haven't developed a single one of these guys ourselves, which you seemed to hint is what we need to be doing. (Dru doesn't count as we never made him #1 and let him walk due to timing.)
As I said, not only do you have to have the luck of landing a future top-3 guy, you have to luck out on the timing of it so Zach is clearly done right before or during FA.
How many good starters has the CFL churned out in the last 5 seasons? Dru, Kelly, Alexander, Rourke. Jury is still out on Dru & Rourke. In 9 teams, 2 dev QBs, 5 years, 4 hits. With my math that's 4.4% chance we have the "next guy" here in '25.
So ya, my answer is still "FA" or, if you prefer, a trade for a backup guy. But just saying "FA" is way easier than all of the above.
Yes, they all come via FA, but that doesn't mean a good option will be available to you in the year you need it. More than likely you grab a different aging vet or journeyman and cycle through crap options for multiple seasons (or 29 years as the case may be).
I will never understand anything against Zach. Not right now.
People are stuck in the year 2005 and think QBs should still cost 350k. That's simply not the wage scale anymore. The only guys making less than 400 are the totally unproven guys. Grey Cup winners on winning teams? There's only two. And the make 600k+
Quote from: Jesse on May 26, 2025, 11:03:32 AMYes, they all come via FA, but that doesn't mean a good option will be available to you in the year you need it. More than likely you grab a different aging vet or journeyman and cycle through crap options for multiple seasons (or 29 years as the case may be).
I will never understand anything against Zach. Not right now.
People are stuck in the year 2005 and think QBs should still cost 350k. That's simply not the wage scale anymore. The only guys making less than 400 are the totally unproven guys. Grey Cup winners on winning teams? There's only two. And the make 600k+
Yeah but there has been an adjustment., Ford, Alexander, Brown ,BLM are all under 400k, Harris and Adams are both mid 400s
Rourke and Kelly are 5-10 yrs younger and closer to prime
Paying Zac 550 or more is simply an admission we have little hope of a viable alternative for '26
The other impact is that it prevents us from signing a potential FA stsrter due to cap. (As mtrl did with MBT Sask with Maier, who all signed at about,200)
Hopefully we've used marketing money to help with this)
Quote from: Pete on May 26, 2025, 02:50:16 PMYeah but there has been an adjustment., Ford, Alexander, Brown ,BLM are all under 400k, Harris and Adams are both mid 400s
Rourke and Kelly are 5-10 yrs younger and closer to prime
Paying Zac 550 or more is simply an admission we have little hope of a viable alternative for '26
The other impact is that it prevents us from signing a potential FA stsrter due to cap. (As mtrl did with MBT Sask with Maier, who all signed at about,200)
Hopefully we've used marketing money to help with this)
As soon as any of the guys you mentioned lead their teams to winning records, their salaries jump up to the top of the wage scale.
Maybe but players over 35 except for bombers seem to take significant pay cuts
550 is fine considering how much the cap went up this past year.
His salary went from 11% of the salary cap in his first year of the deal, to next year being 9%ish.
Quote from: Pete on May 26, 2025, 03:30:39 PMMaybe but players over 35 except for bombers seem to take significant pay cuts
Over generalizing, over stated imo.
Star QBs get paid. Always have been always will be.
Quote from: Pete on May 26, 2025, 02:50:16 PMYeah but there has been an adjustment., Ford, Alexander, Brown ,BLM are all under 400k, Harris and Adams are both mid 400s
Rourke and Kelly are 5-10 yrs younger and closer to prime
Paying Zac 550 or more is simply an admission we have little hope of a viable alternative for '26
I listed the qualified vet replacements that might be available next season earlier in this thread, they are Fajardo, MBT, Arbuckle, and Maier. None of the starters for other teams are likely to come available at the end of this season and that includes some of the younger backups such as Powell, unless they flame out. The CFL is a closed loop, we know all of the potential candidates that might be available, don't think any of them would be worth dumping Zach for as long as he's in good shape and excited to play another season.
Quote from: peg_city on May 26, 2025, 03:52:29 PM550 is fine considering how much the cap went up this past year.
His salary went from 11% of the salary cap in his first year of the deal, to next year being 9%ish.
He is making 600 this year under the old cap number and I'll be shocked if he's making less next year.
I think that the "marketing money" was meant for star players who you can actually "market", and should bring top salaries down a bit.
We have upwards of $7million extra dollars this year to use in marketing money. Yeah, I know we can't use all the profit for that, but still. Having a nice bankroll, we should utilize it.
20% of Zach's new deal should be marketing money. I'm guessing marketing money is guaranteed, like guaranteed contracts, but without any $SMS repercussions if the player gets cut.
Quote from: Jesse on May 26, 2025, 04:57:52 PMHe is making 600 this year under the old cap number and I'll be shocked if he's making less next year.
3DN said in their podcast he signed for about the same numbers he was receiving.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on May 26, 2025, 06:05:23 PM3DN said in their podcast he signed for about the same numbers he was receiving.
Hard to tell what that is, he made 500, 550, 600 in the 3 years. I guess it'll be around 550?
Quote from: Jesse on May 26, 2025, 06:41:47 PMHard to tell what that is, he made 500, 550, 600 in the 3 years. I guess it'll be around 550?
Pretty sure it's still $600k, he's restructured but has never taken a discount.
Quote from: Jesse on May 26, 2025, 04:57:52 PMHe is making 600 this year under the old cap number and I'll be shocked if he's making less next year.
3 down nation reported 550 I thought
Quote from: peg_city on May 26, 2025, 08:11:36 PM3 down nation reported 550 I thought
I think they were just reporting the average of his existing contract, unless they put out something new.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 26, 2025, 05:52:24 AMGarbage time is a heck of a drug for passing yardage. HAM was in GT more often than not.
You are wrong there. In some of those games that was the case, not so in many other games.
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 26, 2025, 11:28:25 PMYou are wrong there. In some of those games that was the case, not so in many other games.
Hammy more often than not were behind and slinging desperate.
Quote from: Blueforlife on May 26, 2025, 11:29:41 PMHammy more often than not were behind and slinging desperate.
Being "behind" with lots of time left on the clock does not mean he compiled garbage time stats. What do you mean by behind? 7 points? 10 points? 14 points? 21 points? The Bombers were behind in some games last year and came back to win. Does that mean Zach compiled garbage time stats?
I forgot to mention that Zach has only thrown Tds in one of his last 5 Grey Cup games with the Bombers. :o
Does that look like someone that deserves the same salary as previous seasons?
Quote from: Blueforlife on May 26, 2025, 11:29:41 PMHammy more often than not were behind and slinging desperate.
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 26, 2025, 11:34:17 PMBeing "behind" with lots of time left on the clock does not mean he compiled garbage time stats. What do you mean by behind? 7 points? 10 points? 14 points? 21 points? The Bombers were behind in some games last year and came back to win. Does that mean Zach compiled garbage time stats?
Meaning that the team had to abandon the run game and throw more often than not. To accumulate the stats that he did, Bo through 120 more passes than the next highest QB. It was like he played 5 more games than anyone else.
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 26, 2025, 11:36:26 PMI forgot to mention that Zach has only thrown Tds in one of his last 5 Grey Cup games with the Bombers. :o
Does that look like someone that deserves the same salary as previous seasons?
yes.
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 26, 2025, 11:34:17 PMBeing "behind" with lots of time left on the clock does not mean he compiled garbage time stats. What do you mean by behind? 7 points? 10 points? 14 points? 21 points? The Bombers were behind in some games last year and came back to win. Does that mean Zach compiled garbage time stats?
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 26, 2025, 11:36:26 PMI forgot to mention that Zach has only thrown Tds in one of his last 5 Grey Cup games with the Bombers. :o
Does that look like someone that deserves the same salary as previous seasons?
Your intial points / posts in this argument were off base imo and now you are really stretching. You continue to dig a deeper hole. Perhaps move on. You don't like Zach's salary and recent performances in the big show, we get that. The comparison to BLM is a weak one imo.
Zach is one our primary reasons for success and our Grey Cup wins and apperances. He deserves the coin he got and will get.
True, ZC8 has only thrown 1 TD in his last 5 Grey Cup appearances, but he is the only Qb to make 5 straight Grey Cups. And without him, we don't go to any Grey Cups, period.
As for BLM stats, pullleeese, most games were long over by the time his 'passing' game kicked in, with the other team just playing not to get any injuries. And didn't he get benched last year as well??
Quote from: Jesse on May 27, 2025, 12:07:35 AMMeaning that the team had to abandon the run game and throw more often than not. To accumulate the stats that he did, Bo through 120 more passes than the next highest QB. It was like he played 5 more games than anyone else.
I say garbage time starts around mid-3rd Q, when you are down by 2+ scores, and are clearly having trouble moving the ball with your normal plan. And garbage time games are almost always losses, or miracle last-minute wins.
Yes, it usually means pass-mostly. It also usually means much deeper average attempt, and lots of bombs. It just so happens that is BLM's wheelhouse.
I will grant that BLM looked much better in '24 compared to the previous years. And he won more games as a result. He's had a mini-resurgence and should do middle-of-the-pack in wins this season.
But he's not Zach. Zach has wiped the floor with him head-to-head every season since '19.
I'm watching the TOR@HAM PS1 game and BLM is doing what he always seems to do: overthrowing and underthrowing. He always has a hard time dialing in, sometimes never does. Something is wrong with his eyesight or the little computer in his brain that calculates passing distance to a moving REC. If he could fix that he would still be 2018 BLM. His arm is still good for an easy 50Y flick.
Quote from: Pete on May 26, 2025, 03:30:39 PMMaybe but players over 35 except for bombers seem to take significant pay cuts
No. Players who have started losing all the time take pay cuts. BLM. Masoli. Evans.
Players who keep winning keep their salary. When R.Ray got old and moved over to TOR, did he take a big cut? Burris?
Quote from: Jesse on May 26, 2025, 11:03:32 AMYes, they all come via FA, but that doesn't mean a good option will be available to you in the year you need it. More than likely you grab a different aging vet or journeyman and cycle through crap options for multiple seasons (or 29 years as the case may be).
Oh, 100% you are correct. There is a lot of risk and luck involved with relying on FA at the last minute when Zach finally says "I'm done".
But there literally is no other option. You can pray you dev a star and the timing is good (option 1, by far the cheapest, see: Alexander/Kelly). You can pray a star is up for trade/FA when you need it (option 2, expensive, all our last 3 QB1's).
I see only one other option: You pre-buy (or keep) a star before your existing star quits. This is by far the most expensive, and nearly impossible, option. This would be us keeping Dru in FA24 and having nearly $1M tied up in the QB room. This was BC in '24. This almost never occurs in the CFL, and really only BC's MMM cheating allowed it for them.
No, we just have to pray we can entice a star QB here when we need him. This could cost us juicy DPs for tamper looks, and lots of salary & signing bonus. On the plus side, if we keep winning, it's an easy sell.
If you want to be aggressive with the QB position then you follow the lead of the Green Bay Packers or closer to home, what the Als did this year with Fajardo. That's the example to follow even if we don't know the results of Alexander vs Fajardo yet and even if Jordan Love's had no real playoff success.
Note that in both cases, they didn't use free agency to solve the problem because franchise QBs basically never make it to free agency.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on May 27, 2025, 02:52:36 PMIf you want to be aggressive with the QB position then you follow the lead of the Green Bay Packers or closer to home, what the Als did this year with Fajardo. That's the example to follow even if we don't know the results of Alexander vs Fajardo yet and even if Jordan Love's had no real playoff success.
Or what TOR did with MBT->Kelly. I hear ya.
However, I still maintain you can't do that with Zach. You can't do that with a 5-GC-appearing WDF-winning QB. You have to ride the Zach horse until it's clearly obvious he's done, not that you guess he might be slipping. The whole league learned from the mistake of the early R.Ray cut.
If we did what you say, then we would have kept Dru in FA24 and let Zach walk. Dru did well in '24, but he wouldn't have gotten us to that cup.
Back to your Fajardo (and my MBT) scenario: Fajardo and MBT were never "great", not once. They were carried by vastly superior teams. Zach looked great in two places: HAM and here. As such I don't think it's a fair comparison. Both Faj/MBT will look very weak if starting for "normal" teams (see MBT in EDM).
Also, knowing The Mafia like we do, don't you think they'll ride the Zach horse until he's clearly ready for pasture? (Or he angers/disses them a la AH33 showing up for camp completely unready.)
Quote from: Blueforlife on May 27, 2025, 12:24:12 AMYour intial points / posts in this argument were off base imo and now you are really stretching. You continue to dig a deeper hole. Perhaps move on. You don't like Zach's salary and recent performances in the big show, we get that. The comparison to BLM is a weak one imo.
Zach is one our primary reasons for success and our Grey Cup wins and apperances. He deserves the coin he got and will get.
Not off base at all. Zach wasn't in any position to command a similar salary as last year given how poorly he performed most of last season (17 tds and 15 ints) and his terrible Grey Cup game....and a whole season before his deal is even up no less! What's the rush to extend him?! Let him prove last season was not a trend but a fluke and actually throw significantly more TDS than INts and improve his YPG stats before giving him an extension. Most teams are set at QB and there aren't going to be many teams falling over themselves to sign a nearly 38 year old QB in 2026.
Zach sure did his best to try and cost the team a trip to Grey Cup in 2021 when he threw 3 INTs (and I think he fumbled the ball as well) in the West Division Final. That team won the game on the strength of defense, and Harris. They saved Collaros bacon. If Zach had performed half-decently the game would have been a blow-out instead of the nailbiter it turned into.
More of same in 2022. Zach was mediocre at best, throwing for barely more than 170 yards while also throwing a INT. Thankfully Oliviera and Grant saved his bacon yet again with tremendous performances.
2023...again more of the same. Zach passes for a paltry 150 yards and no INTS so I guess that's a plus. That team went to the Grey Cup mostly on the strength of Oliviera and the Defense.
Zach the primary reason for our appearances in the Grey Cup!? Not in those division finals, that's for sure. More like the Bombers qualified for the Grey Cup in spite of Zach.
That's not even getting into the Grey Cups and we know how well Zach did there, don't we? Based on the evidence in big games, does this sound like a QB that should be paid over $600,000 per season?
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 29, 2025, 02:37:20 AMNot off base at all. Zach wasn't in any position to command a similar salary as last year given how poorly he performed most of last season (17 tds and 15 ints) and his terrible Grey Cup game....and a whole season before his deal is even up no less! What's the rush to extend him?! Let him prove last season was not a trend but a fluke and actually throw significantly more TDS than INts and improve his YPG stats before giving him an extension. Most teams are set at QB and there aren't going to be many teams falling over themselves to sign a nearly 38 year old QB in 2026.
Zach sure did his best to try and cost the team a trip to Grey Cup in 2021 when he threw 3 INTs (and I think he fumbled the ball as well) in the West Division Final. That team won the game on the strength of defense, and Harris. They saved Collaros bacon. If Zach had performed half-decently the game would have been a blow-out instead of the nailbiter it turned into.
More of same in 2022. Zach was mediocre at best, throwing for barely more than 170 yards while also throwing a INT. Thankfully Oliviera and Grant saved his bacon yet again with tremendous performances.
2023...again more of the same. Zach passes for a paltry 150 yards and no INTS so I guess that's a plus. That team went to the Grey Cup mostly on the strength of Oliviera and the Defense.
Zach the primary reason for our appearances in the Grey Cup!? Not in those division finals, that's for sure. More like the Bombers qualified for the Grey Cup in spite of Zach.
That's not even getting into the Grey Cups and we know how well Zach did there, don't we? Based on the evidence in big games, does this sound like a QB that should be paid over $600,000 per season?
I believe you are wrong about Zach and tried every angle in the book to prove your point. I believe your previous arguments were a stretch. I believe you are undervauling what Zach brings, overstating the negative about him and not being realistic when you mention his salary. A star QB of his calibre is worth what we have paid him, past, present and future. He will go down as one of the best Bomber QBs of all time, with the record, cups and stats to prove that. We are on opposite ends on this one. There is no value in continuing the debate between us. Agree to disagree. Revist when the snow flies this and next year. I strongly believe we are lucky to have him for another season and there is many reason why extending him now makes sense. He is our best chance to win and our best chance at developing the next gen.
Suggesting that Zach didn't play a key role in our playoff runs is as off base as I have seen on here.
if we are paying him 800k I don't know why we had to sign him prior to this season. At that price tag we could have waited til we see what 2025 performance is. I realize he's brought a lot to this organization but at such a key position we cant afford to pay for past efforts, It's what he brings now that is critical
I have no issues with extending Collaros, as long as there is minimal guaranteed $SMS in 2026. Just in case. Marketing money, no problem. But if we gave him a signing bonus, or guaranteed money, no thanks.
Quote from: Pete on May 29, 2025, 03:03:17 AMif we are paying him 800k I don't know why we had to sign him prior to this season. At that price tag we could have waited til we see what 2025 performance is. I realize he's brought a lot to this organization but at such a key position we cant afford to pay for past efforts, It's what he brings now that is critical
Where did you get $800k from? He's being paid $600k max.
$2M is too much! :D
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on May 29, 2025, 02:37:20 AM2023...again more of the same. Zach passes for a paltry 150 yards and no INTS so I guess that's a plus. That team went to the Grey Cup mostly on the strength of Oliviera and the Defense.
Zach the primary reason for our appearances in the Grey Cup!? Not in those division finals, that's for sure. More like the Bombers qualified for the Grey Cup in spite of Zach.
LOL, you critique all the WDFs except the one that counts the most: 2024. Like 200Y to Kenny alone and multiple TDs? Ya, not relevant to his re-signing?
And the '21 one was a fumble-fest and tip-INTs that were at best a wash between him and the RECs. Don't pin that blame on him.
I think you'll find that the entire team is responsible for the sustained success. Yes, it's not all Zach, but similarly it's not all "the D" or the RB. We do best when everyone contributes. That's partly why the '24 GC stunk so much: instead of contributing, everyone took turns sucking. Maybe this year will be different.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 29, 2025, 08:59:42 PMLOL, you critique all the WDFs except the one that counts the most: 2024. Like 200Y to Kenny alone and multiple TDs? Ya, not relevant to his re-signing?
And the '21 one was a fumble-fest and tip-INTs that were at best a wash between him and the RECs. Don't pin that blame on him.
I think you'll find that the entire team is responsible for the sustained success. Yes, it's not all Zach, but similarly it's not all "the D" or the RB. We do best when everyone contributes. That's partly why the '24 GC stunk so much: instead of contributing, everyone took turns sucking. Maybe this year will be different.
Facts and a balanced post occurs above
Quote from: Blueforlife on May 30, 2025, 01:23:38 AMFacts and a balanced post occurs above
bluandgoldguy presented nothing but facts too. In order to be a balanced post, you have to consider both sides of the argument.
Zach has been an incredible boost for our team. He remains our best option. He has been at his worst in every Grey Cup he's played in, and many play-off games.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 29, 2025, 08:59:42 PMLOL, you critique all the WDFs except the one that counts the most: 2024. Like 200Y to Kenny alone and multiple TDs? Ya, not relevant to his re-signing?
And the '21 one was a fumble-fest and tip-INTs that were at best a wash between him and the RECs. Don't pin that blame on him.
I think you'll find that the entire team is responsible for the sustained success. Yes, it's not all Zach, but similarly it's not all "the D" or the RB. We do best when everyone contributes. That's partly why the '24 GC stunk so much: instead of contributing, everyone took turns sucking. Maybe this year will be different.
And Failing to contain Fajardo and allowing the game winning td pass v Montreal. Was not Zach.
Quote from: markf on May 30, 2025, 01:08:06 PMAnd Failing to contain Fajardo and allowing the game winning td pass v Montreal. Was not Zach.
No, but not being able to kill the clock on the previous drive gave Fajardo that opportunity.
I think it's pretty hard to objectively say that Collaros has been good in the recent Grey Cups. He hasn't been. I think there are some mitigating factors though- the weather makes it hard for QBs in November and the opponent - that Toronto front - was tough last year for the offence. Buck's game plan didn't exactly help.
On the other hand, he's been the best quarterback to play in Winnipeg over the last 25 years and you'd be making a mistake not trying to milk that dry. You'd have to go back to Khari Jones in 2001, 02 and 03 to find someone who had as much personal success (without half as much team success) at the position. So if there's no young Jordan Love or Aaron Rodgers waiting in the wings, you don't cut the franchise because he's expensive. It is prudent to try and find that guy though.
I am happt Zach is here, and do not begrudge him his salary, or getting an extension, a good move for both him and the team. That said:
Allowing teams to score points is not the only factor in losing a game.
Not scoring more points is just as much a factor.
We tend to dominate time of possession, that's the type of team we are, ground and pound, dink and dunk.
We do feast off of our D making turnover on downs and ballhawking. But that should always be considered bonus.
We need to, in big games, not rely on holding teams off the scoreboard, but running up a tally that they can't overcome.
That has not been the case in the last 3 GC's.
And yes, THAT is a Zach issue. He needs to be better, he needs to lead and get things done.
He's been O tds, 6 ints in the last 3 GC losses, and was 2 td, 2 int in the first two GC wins.
Neither ratio screams proficiency, and yes, some of those INTs came off a bloodied hand, but still. To win, your best players have to be your best players. On paycheck alone, ZC8 is supposed to be our best player. Yes, he cannot win it by himself, it is a team sport, but he clearly has not been our best player in the last 3 GC appearances.
No debate, getting us to GC's is important, and he has earned his pay doing that. But unless he changes things, I don't think he will be remembered as "Big Game Collaros".
Is there a QB I'd rather have here? Probably not, maybe a up and comer for the future, but of the starters, he still has one of the best all around records, just not in the last 3 GC's, when it has counted.
Quote from: Jesse on May 30, 2025, 10:47:35 AMZach has been an incredible boost for our team. He remains our best option. He has been at his worst in every Grey Cup he's played in, and many play-off games.
Is he told to play that way, or maybe we always have a pass-last / conservative-pass game plan? I don't mean the INTs, I mean just the general feel of the play calls. Yes, that would mean the style would span 2 different OCs.
Then maybe it would be a MOS thing... He does seem to want to make everything very conservative in GCs, hence my perennial "be bolder" post-loss thread.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on May 30, 2025, 03:44:26 PMSo if there's no young Jordan Love or Aaron Rodgers waiting in the wings, you don't cut the franchise because he's expensive. It is prudent to try and find that guy though.
Anyone we obtain as our desired replacement will be a top-3 QB and cost just the same (or more) anyhow. There is no "savings" to be found at the QB position.
The only way you'd save anything is by signing an "unknown but seems to have it" new kid (Dru/Alexander). This is possible, but those guys are often retained by the team that found them. Or a washed-up oldster (sadly, Masoli; not sadly, Trevor), but we're not doing that.
Just looking at some franchise stats while I wait for the game to start:
With Zach now signed through 2026, he should easily slot in at #2 in Blue Bomber history in career passing yards and TDs behind Dieter Brock.
If he were to sign an additional year into 2027, he could become our all time leading passer.
For those of you with Dads in the boomer generation. Dieter Brock is this golden standard that no QB can ever touch. Would love to see a QB that I got to watch over take him.
Oh wow, Brady will likely finish this year as at least 5th on the all time rushing list. Maybe 4th.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 25, 2025, 03:25:03 AMPretty much every team gets their main QB from FA. It's ok to admit it.
Zach's route to Winnipeg was something like Toronto, Hamilton, and Sask. I still wish we had found a way to keep Brown.