Blue Bombers Forum

I'm watching the '24 WDF keeping an eye on the DL.  They did a pretty good job.  Then I'm looking at all the guys making plays and realizing that most of them weren't re-signed.

Haba, Garbutt, Fox.  All signed in HAM or TOR.  So clearly they have merit.

Vaughters solves a lot of DE problems, probably.

But what about DT?  It seems the hopes are pinned on Lawson, who was looking like a starter going into '24.  And we retain IMPs Adams and Woods.  Adams stuck out to me as a real future star, and a potential team-leader type.  Woods didn't look bad either, in rotational action.

If you look at the BB roster (assuming it's accurate) we're carrying a lot of NAT DL.  So it may be that we are really set on going 2 NAT DL, probably mostly at DT, but NAT DE could rotate in.

If we're keen on Adams, he could see heavy use as a DI.  Could he be a future Stove?

My gut says we're set to be stronger at DL as a whole.  But losing so many guys that looked like they were our future makes me wonder.  Everyone will agree our DL fared badly in '24 and was one major reason we couldn't win the cup (absent freak finger injuries).  Clearly if you're looking at the "cup puzzle", the DL was a major piece this season.  I think we want to run a lot less 3-man pass rush.

So what's your impression of the new DL line-up?

Vaughters is an improvement over Garbutt and Haba, Garbutt may have been signed by Hamilton but that doesn't mean much with their signing every exbomber in sight ( ie Josh Johnson) and haba did very little. Lawton should upgrade dt as well. A lot could depend On Adams progression and whoever they bring in as a rotational de.

Too complex to to guess if they will be better or worse, Woods and Adams roughly replace Haba and Garbutt in potential, and Lawson replaces Fox, ratio and positions to be determined as well as 3/4 or 4/3 formation.  Vaughters may be the wild card, he either excels and Frees Willy, or blends into the woodwork and becomes a non-factor, it's up to him to determine.

How the heck are supposed to know this now?
Waaay too early to be posting this.

Answer: don't know

Easy. Stronger, but still needs work. Vaughters is an upgrade over what we had at DE. Adams showed promise last season hopefully takes next step this season.

Adding Lawson and Vaughters, recruits and draft picks, its going to be much better

The DL wasn't very good.  Average if they had a great day. Not much penetration or gap control. Linebackers were very good.

I would have liked to see a difference maker in there. I don't think they have one. I think we get run on quite a bit.

No DT, no safety, no Bighill.

Quote from: DM83 on March 15, 2025, 07:49:37 PMThe DL wasn't very good.  Average if they had a great day. Not much penetration or gap control. Linebackers were very good.

I would have liked to see a difference maker in there. I don't think they have one. I think we get run on quite a bit.

No DT, no safety, no Bighill.

Would be awesome to have 2019 Nevis/Stove, BA, Biggie. 

Unfortunately it isn't 2019.

As we do every year, we have new bodies and will make a new group.

I think with so many changes will bring some challenges but I will make my judgement in camp.  I would like a deep group that rotates and everyone contributes.  Allows the older guys to stay fresh and the young guns to develop.  I think some of the guys we lost will be decent this year which is good for the league.  I hope the guys we brough in are good, I have faith this group will be fine.  Run D my only worry.

Quote from: DM83 on March 15, 2025, 07:49:37 PMThe DL wasn't very good.  Average if they had a great day. Not much penetration or gap control. Linebackers were very good.

I would have liked to see a difference maker in there. I don't think they have one. I think we get run on quite a bit.

Weren't we like a top-3 team against the run?  We stopped the run just fine in the post-season.  TOR had to go to an almost all-pass plan.

I think gap control is good, because the DL was basically doing nothing but gap control on 1st down.  We focus on gap control at the expense of pass rush.  Fatboi is basically the epitome of this.

But you are right, our run-stop success was more a function of the LBers probably.  And the DBs sneaking up.  We are very good at identifying who (extra) is staying in pass-pro and bringing the match coverage for them into the box.

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on March 15, 2025, 04:14:40 PMHow the heck are supposed to know this now?
Waaay too early to be posting this.

On paper.  We can make guesses based on the paper at this moment.  That's all any other "power rankings" are doing.

As a major problem in '24, we'd hope the "paper" moves in FA will improve the DL.  The status quo is probably not acceptable (at least not to us fans!).  Getting worse would be disastrous.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 16, 2025, 03:52:25 AMWeren't we like a top-3 team against the run?  We stopped the run just fine in the post-season.  TOR had to go to an almost all-pass plan.

I think gap control is good, because the DL was basically doing nothing but gap control on 1st down.  We focus on gap control at the expense of pass rush.  Fatboi is basically the epitome of this.

But you are right, our run-stop success was more a function of the LBers probably.  And the DBs sneaking up.  We are very good at identifying who (extra) is staying in pass-pro and bringing the match coverage for them into the box.

I think the Argos could go to an all pass game with the lack of pressure, not the other way around.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 16, 2025, 03:52:25 AMWeren't we like a top-3 team against the run?  We stopped the run just fine in the post-season.  TOR had to go to an almost all-pass plan.

I think gap control is good, because the DL was basically doing nothing but gap control on 1st down.  We focus on gap control at the expense of pass rush.  Fatboi is basically the epitome of this.

But you are right, our run-stop success was more a function of the LBers probably.  And the DBs sneaking up.  We are very good at identifying who (extra) is staying in pass-pro and bringing the match coverage for them into the box.

The D played well all season but they allowed Arbuckles to put up 41 pts. against them in the championship game, that result should open up their defensive strategy to a whole lot of scrutiny. I wouldn't shed a tear if they completely abandoned the 3 man front and went back to basics with the focus on employing outstanding personnel.

All I know is that Haba & Garbutt better not become stars now!

Quote from: BomberFan73 on March 16, 2025, 04:31:26 PMAll I know is that Haba & Garbutt better not become stars now!

Like Nevis and Stove and so many others that we allowed to get away?

I hope they do well, except against us.  I don't think us letting them bolt after giving them time to succeed is any big issue, there are always players that succeed after their first team.  Like Cavillo...   

Quote from: BomberFan73 on March 16, 2025, 04:31:26 PMAll I know is that Haba & Garbutt better not become stars now!

They may, but likely will not. Can't live life looking in rearview mirror. They didn't show enough to keep them over Vaughters, so we went and got Vaughters and let them go. Had they had a year like Vaughters, it would be a different story but they didn't. I think we made the right choice.

Quote from: dd on March 16, 2025, 07:22:49 PMThey may, but likely will not. Can't live life looking in rearview mirror. They didn't show enough to keep them over Vaughters, so we went and got Vaughters and let them go. Had they had a year like Vaughters, it would be a different story but they didn't. I think we made the right choice.

I didn't realize Vaughters NFL pedigree.  Having guys that have "been in the show" on the team can really bolster morale in the young guys.

He got his pro start with the stamps, and turned that into 27 games down south, including sacking Tom Brady. Great stories for the locker room.

Quote from: BomberFan73 on March 16, 2025, 04:31:26 PMAll I know is that Haba & Garbutt better not become stars now!

They will both be decent and have star potential

Likely one out of the two breaks out this year or next imo.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 16, 2025, 03:16:44 PMThe D played well all season but they allowed Arbuckles to put up 41 pts.

Well, there were TOR D scores and their D putting them basically in the red zone with INTs.

From my hazy memory Arbuckle had 1, maybe 2, long drives that you'd call "really good".  And everything was short/mid.  And that's fine, since that's all TOR needed to do after WPG O couldn't move the ball anymore and was ending every drive in an INT.

Quote from: theaardvark on March 16, 2025, 07:59:58 PMI didn't realize Vaughters NFL pedigree.  Having guys that have "been in the show" on the team can really bolster morale in the young guys.

He got his pro start with the stamps, and turned that into 27 games down south, including sacking Tom Brady. Great stories for the locker room.

Vaughters is a seasoned vet, so his addition to the D-line undoubtedly upgrades the unit when compared to last season.

I think he and Jefferson are going to cause some havoc in '25.

We have some serious Canadian beef in the middle, I'm wondering if JY is going to stunt the DE's inside while the DT's clear out the Oline...

We know Willie can get his arms up in the air, but he can also inside rush...

Quote from: theaardvark on March 16, 2025, 07:00:09 PMLike Nevis and Stove and so many others that we allowed to get away?

I hope they do well, except against us.  I don't think us letting them bolt after giving them time to succeed is any big issue, there are always players that succeed after their first team.  Like Cavillo...   

Really, Nevis and Stove did nothing after deciding to leave the Bombers. Nevis made 2 DTs after leaving, Stove has never played.

Quote from: Pigskin on March 17, 2025, 07:31:11 PMReally, Nevis and Stove did nothing after deciding to leave the Bombers. Nevis made 2 DTs after leaving, Stove has never played.

True but they were dominant players before their injuries. The same can't be said about Haba or Garbutt. They may continue to improve but neither showed what Nevis or Stove. Both got significant raises to move elsewhere that put them in higher tax brackets.

Quote from: Blue In BC on March 17, 2025, 08:01:28 PMTrue but they were dominant players before their injuries. The same can't be said about Haba or Garbutt. They may continue to improve but neither showed what Nevis or Stove. Both got significant raises to move elsewhere that put them in higher tax brackets.

Richardson also spent a lot of time on the IR with the Bombers. The guy just couldn't stay healthy.

Quote from: Pigskin on March 18, 2025, 03:47:02 AMRichardson also spent a lot of time on the IR with the Bombers. The guy just couldn't stay healthy.

As happens to many (most?) DTs.  Which goes to show Fatboi is quite an amazing player in that he basically doesn't miss a single game for like a decade?  Crazy for a DT.

We are DEEP at DT especially with Canadians.
Lawson, Fatboi, Kornelson, Samson and Shmeckel
All 24-26 years old outside of Fatboi with a lot of potential. I like Lawson to get the starting spot and the other 3 younin's to battle with Fatboi for the back up rotation spot.

Woods and Adams are the imports that we retained. When they've both been available, Woods has started over Adams.
I think Woods is the early down run stopping DT and Adams is a better pass rusher.

With our interior DL being 26 years old at the most they are about to head into their prime and they have lots of competition to get better! I think over the next 2-3 years we will have the best interior in the league, and I see a huge step up from last season despite not picking up any new studs!

Quote from: LXTSN on March 18, 2025, 01:55:00 PMWe are DEEP at DT especially with Canadians.
Lawson, Fatboi, Kornelson, Samson and Shmeckel
All 24-26 years old outside of Fatboi with a lot of potential. I like Lawson to get the starting spot and the other 3 younin's to battle with Fatboi for the back up rotation spot.

Woods and Adams are the imports that we retained. When they've both been available, Woods has started over Adams.
I think Woods is the early down run stopping DT and Adams is a better pass rusher.

With our interior DL being 26 years old at the most they are about to head into their prime and they have lots of competition to get better! I think over the next 2-3 years we will have the best interior in the league, and I see a huge step up from last season despite not picking up any new studs!

I don't know if the competition for the back up will be fair per se. You may as well write in Thomas in pen either as the starter or the back up to Lawson.

I found it a surprise that they brought him back considering an SMS that is higher than the other ELC players, age and roster spots. While he's not an expensive roster choice, in the grand scheme of things it would have been a savings of perhaps $20K. The bigger issue is succession plan with the depth and the 2025 draft choices.

Only 2 Canadian DT's will make the AR. I'm not even sure we keep more than 1 more on the PR. The question is which one will that be and is there any trade value for the others.

Quote from: Blue In BC on March 18, 2025, 02:22:23 PMI don't know if the competition for the back up will be fair per se. You may as well write in Thomas in pen either as the starter or the back up to Lawson.

I found it a surprise that they brought him back considering an SMS that is higher than the other ELC players, age and roster spots. While he's not an expensive roster choice, in the grand scheme of things it would have been a savings of perhaps $20K. The bigger issue is succession plan with the depth and the 2025 draft choices.

Only 2 Canadian DT's will make the AR. I'm not even sure we keep more than 1 more on the PR. The question is which one will that be and is there any trade value for the others.

I'd be surprised if we don't have 3 NAT DT's on the roster.

I don't think Fatboi is at much of a premium, and he's worth every penny in the room.  Longest serving Bomber with a real Rudy attitude, except he actually has the stature to play.  And the versatility of changing to a 60 series jersey as well.

Kornelson and Samson have to impress in TC to have any chance of sticking, Fatboi, Lawson are for sure, Schmekle has the inside track for 3.  The Nat's might stick around on the PR because we don't know what Fatboi's plans are after this year.  If we weren't hosting... nah, I get the feeling as long as he can make OUR roster, JT95 will put on pads.

We could end up with 3 Nats and 1 American dressing at DT, with a Nat and an American on the PR, maybe IR. 

Deep draft this year for Dline, 4 of the top 10 prospects are DL, 7 of the top 15...  some are DE's, some are tweeners, but there are a few that look like blue chip DT's that might get an NFL look...  might look at  using a flyer if one of those top 15 get an NFL draft spot.

Quote from: theaardvark on March 18, 2025, 02:55:39 PMI'd be surprised if we don't have 3 NAT DT's on the roster.

I don't think Fatboi is at much of a premium, and he's worth every penny in the room.  Longest serving Bomber with a real Rudy attitude, except he actually has the stature to play.  And the versatility of changing to a 60 series jersey as well.

Kornelson and Samson have to impress in TC to have any chance of sticking, Fatboi, Lawson are for sure, Schmekle has the inside track for 3.  The Nat's might stick around on the PR because we don't know what Fatboi's plans are after this year.  If we weren't hosting... nah, I get the feeling as long as he can make OUR roster, JT95 will put on pads.

We could end up with 3 Nats and 1 American dressing at DT, with a Nat and an American on the PR, maybe IR. 

Deep draft this year for Dline, 4 of the top 10 prospects are DL, 7 of the top 15...  some are DE's, some are tweeners, but there are a few that look like blue chip DT's that might get an NFL look...  might look at  using a flyer if one of those top 15 get an NFL draft spot.

Schmeck improved a lot last year, I don't see them moving on from him as they were also using him on offence in short yardage situations.

Quote from: theaardvark on March 18, 2025, 02:55:39 PMI'd be surprised if we don't have 3 NAT DT's on the roster.

I don't think Fatboi is at much of a premium, and he's worth every penny in the room.  Longest serving Bomber with a real Rudy attitude, except he actually has the stature to play.  And the versatility of changing to a 60 series jersey as well.

Kornelson and Samson have to impress in TC to have any chance of sticking, Fatboi, Lawson are for sure, Schmekle has the inside track for 3.  The Nat's might stick around on the PR because we don't know what Fatboi's plans are after this year.  If we weren't hosting... nah, I get the feeling as long as he can make OUR roster, JT95 will put on pads.

We could end up with 3 Nats and 1 American dressing at DT, with a Nat and an American on the PR, maybe IR. 

Deep draft this year for Dline, 4 of the top 10 prospects are DL, 7 of the top 15...  some are DE's, some are tweeners, but there are a few that look like blue chip DT's that might get an NFL look...  might look at  using a flyer if one of those top 15 get an NFL draft spot.

We'll have to find spots on the PR for several 2025 draft choices. Keeping 2 from previous drafts creates a space problem on the PR list of 10. IMO someone gets cut outright in this group of 5.

I don't see Schmekel beating out another import on the roster. In that sense I expect he's the one headed to the PR.

Don't forget we also have Gowanlock fighting to make the roster.