Increasing by $400K for 2025!!!!!!!!!!!!! Too bad teams didn't know that a week ago.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/05/2025-cfl-salary-cap-limit-jumps-over-400000-due-to-increased-league-revenues/
https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/05/2025-salary-cap-increase-driven-by-2024-league-revenue-growth/
QuoteTORONTO — The Canadian Football League (CFL) Salary Expenditure Cap for the upcoming season has been set at $6,062,365.
"The strategy we put in place in 2022 has strengthened our league," said Commissioner Randy Ambrosie. "Our extensive product review has yielded a fun, fast and entertaining game – one that attracts attention and inspires people to fall in love with Canadian football. Fans and partners have leaned in, investing in the potential and promise of our great game."
"The past three seasons have seen year-over-year growth in attendance and gameday revenue. Our owners are more committed and stronger than ever before, and the business community has recognized this success in our game. This wave of support has triggered our growth sharing model, signalling a bright future ahead, and we couldn't be more excited."
The amount represents an increase of $412,365 over the $5,650,000 that was negotiated with the CFL Players' Association in the 2022 Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA).
This is great news.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 05, 2025, 01:42:54 PMIncreasing by $400K for 2025!!!!!!!!!!!!! Too bad teams didn't know that a week ago.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/05/2025-cfl-salary-cap-limit-jumps-over-400000-due-to-increased-league-revenues/
I'm sure they did?
If the teams didn't know, there are guys that haven't signed yet that just saw their salary requests go up 7.5%...
It's not a huge difference, and while it might make the top few players on a roster a few more bucks, there are going to be a lot of players that just renegotiated who are going to be very disgruntled, especially if the teams did know. That BC locker-room is not going to be fun fr management.
I would assume the minimums and draft pick ELC's just went up as well.
This is awesome
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 05, 2025, 02:23:19 PMI'm sure they did?
Possibly. Elks either knew or didn't care since they signed anyone and everyone they could. This solves the problem for the Lions that had some potential issues going into the season.
OTOH, there is no indication the Bombers knew. Nothing they've done suggested an increasing in spending so far. Far from it.
Now the question is what do teams do with what might be a surplus going into the season? They could extend some 1 year contracts for some vets with more guaranteed money. That may be something they do at the end of the season to avoid half their rosters becoming potential free agents.
Maybe the league agrees with the CFLPA to increase the minimum ELC level for the season. Could even increase the roster size by another Canadian.
I don't know that it will increase demands from currently unsigned potential free agents. It might but most of the top potential players have committed already.
A large number of those still unsigned may not even be playing in 2025. Others will be signed as lower cost back up rentals.
Overall this is good for the players.
Question:
This is the players $SMS.
Has the front office $SMS changed, or loosened?
Is there a similar "promotional budget" like they gave Rourke for coaches?
Quote from: theaardvark on February 05, 2025, 03:19:07 PMQuestion:
This is the players $SMS.
Has the front office $SMS changed, or loosened?
Is there a similar "promotional budget" like they gave Rourke for coaches?
That wasn't addressed but could also be in the works. The problem with that is teams have staffs in place.
I'm still having issues with the " promo budget " concept. I had thought it was part of the SMS but a sub-set to pay for non football appearances.
There seem to be a bunch of loopholes ( Rourke in particular ) to just use that to sidestep something not in the SMS.
Putting that in the SMS makes more sense. It creates a non football activity structure for work players do. OTOH, giving that much to 1 player doesn't make sense, but it's allowed.
In theory we could have signed Lawler for $285K with $200K as promo money. Regardless it's too much for a receiver, but it's an escape clause that needs to be modified.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 05, 2025, 03:29:18 PMThat wasn't addressed but could also be in the works. The problem with that is teams have staffs in place.
I'm still having issues with the " promo budget " concept. I had thought it was part of the SMS but a sub-set to pay for non football appearances.
There seem to be a bunch of loopholes ( Rourke in particular ) to just use that to sidestep something not in the SMS.
Putting that in the SMS makes more sense. It creates a non football activity structure for work players do. OTOH, giving that much to 1 player doesn't make sense, but it's allowed.
In theory we could have signed Lawler for $285K with $200K as promo money. Regardless it's too much for a receiver, but it's an escape clause that needs to be modified.
Promo money is limited, just like the $SMS. You can't give every player a promo bonus. Technically you could give Kenny $200k in promo, and almost nothing to everyone else..
And they have to actually do something to earn that promo bonus. Guessing the autograph signings with certain players, or the trips to Churchill are our promo funds at work.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 05, 2025, 04:00:37 PMPromo money is limited, just like the $SMS. You can't give every player a promo bonus. Technically you could give Kenny $200k in promo, and almost nothing to everyone else..
And they have to actually do something to earn that promo bonus. Guessing the autograph signings with certain players, or the trips to Churchill are our promo funds at work.
The Lions did that with Rourke. The promo money is set with a minimum of $200K with any excess charged to the SMS. In that sense it's the same kind of penalty as with the normal SMS. It could result in an overage to the set maximum SMS.
It could be argued that the publicity work by Rourke is worth $200K. I'd argue it isn't.
Wow, Ambrosie needs to be congratulated, "Randy...now where did he go?" Wonder what it was that brought in the extra revenue? Sports gambling?
Attendance everywhere else but Wpg. was fairly pathetic last season, imagine what they can do if they start filling the stands once again. Maybe the CFL has finally turned the corner to profitability and the value of the franchises will leap up.
One thing I am wondering...
Once the window closes Feb. 9, pending free agents will have an exclusive 48-hour negotiating period with the teams they remain under contract with. Every CFL club will be provided any offers the pending free agents received during the weeklong open window timeline.
Teams will have until 10 a.m. ET on Feb. 11 to make an offer to their own free agents. Copies of those proposals must again go to both the CFL office and CFLPA.
Will anybody have a change of heart considering the new SMS? Nothing is in stone... YET.
Quote from: Waffler on February 05, 2025, 04:56:23 PMOne thing I am wondering...
Once the window closes Feb. 9, pending free agents will have an exclusive 48-hour negotiating period with the teams they remain under contract with. Every CFL club will be provided any offers the pending free agents received during the weeklong open window timeline.
Teams will have until 10 a.m. ET on Feb. 11 to make an offer to their own free agents. Copies of those proposals must again go to both the CFL office and CFLPA.
Will anybody have a change of heart considering the new SMS? Nothing is in stone... YET.
True but have we seen anyone do that in the past? Not often at best.
Quote from: Waffler on February 05, 2025, 04:56:23 PMOne thing I am wondering...
Once the window closes Feb. 9, pending free agents will have an exclusive 48-hour negotiating period with the teams they remain under contract with. Every CFL club will be provided any offers the pending free agents received during the weeklong open window timeline.
Teams will have until 10 a.m. ET on Feb. 11 to make an offer to their own free agents. Copies of those proposals must again go to both the CFL office and CFLPA.
Will anybody have a change of heart considering the new SMS? Nothing is in stone... YET.
I'm sure they checked back in with their previous team before making the announcement, Ricky Walker not reporting to the Stamps is the only player I can recall that changed his mind after agreeing to sign.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 05, 2025, 05:13:28 PMI'm sure they checked back in with their previous team before making the announcement, Ricky Walker not reporting to the Stamps is the only player I can recall that changed his mind after agreeing to sign.
He also choose to retire.
Quote from: Waffler on February 05, 2025, 04:56:23 PMOne thing I am wondering...
Once the window closes Feb. 9, pending free agents will have an exclusive 48-hour negotiating period with the teams they remain under contract with. Every CFL club will be provided any offers the pending free agents received during the weeklong open window timeline.
Teams will have until 10 a.m. ET on Feb. 11 to make an offer to their own free agents. Copies of those proposals must again go to both the CFL office and CFLPA.
Will anybody have a change of heart considering the new SMS? Nothing is in stone... YET.
There is no chance that CFL teams are reading about this in the news for the first time like we are.
They already knew and negotiations were already had with that understanding.
Quote from: Jesse on February 05, 2025, 05:55:17 PMThere is no chance that CFL teams are reading about this in the news for the first time like we are.
They already knew and negotiations were already had with that understanding.
Freisen, at least, is reporting that teams found out the new number today (I still find it hard to believe - maybe it was simply "made official")
I guess we'll find out if teams suddenly start making new offers to signed players. If nothing changes, then it's likely GMs already knew.
Quote from: Jesse on February 05, 2025, 06:24:33 PMFreisen, at least, is reporting that teams found out the new number today (I still find it hard to believe - maybe it was simply "made official")
I guess we'll find out if teams suddenly start making new offers to signed players. If nothing changes, then it's likely GMs already knew.
Only in the CFL could that be true, but probably is. What a dumb time to release this information, I figure somebody in accounting screwed up.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 05, 2025, 04:24:41 PMThe Lions did that with Rourke. The promo money is set with a minimum of $200K with any excess charged to the SMS. In that sense it's the same kind of penalty as with the normal SMS. It could result in an overage to the set maximum SMS.
It could be argued that the publicity work by Rourke is worth $200K. I'd argue it isn't.
In 2023, each Club will include in the Salary Expenditure Cap an additional $60,000 in respect of Non-Football Related Services, such as community appearances, outreach, and promotion. Starting in 2024 and continuing for every year of the collective agreement, each Club will include in the Salary Expenditure Cap an additional $110,000 in respect of those Non-Football Related Services. These special amounts will be the mandatory minimum amount for each Club and will be subject to strict audit rules. The Clubs will have sole discretion on which players shall received these payments and the amounts to each player,but in no case should these amounts be less than $60,000 per Club in 2023 or less than $110,000 per Club, per year thereafter. These amounts will be included in a player's SPC and noted accordingly. The minimum is defined, but it's not $200K. The maximum isn't defined & there is no mention of it being charged to the SMS. There was an article that said it should be added to the SMS, but that's not what the contract says.
Quote from: Jesse on February 05, 2025, 06:24:33 PMFreisen, at least, is reporting that teams found out the new number today (I still find it hard to believe - maybe it was simply "made official")
It makes me immediately wonder/worry if the league leaked the news to select teams (for whatever reason), given said teams an unfair advantage in FA up until this moment.
Any teams that appeared to be spending like drunken sailors are ones that I would suspect of this. So 100% WFC didn't know... we've been insanely conservative on spending and have gobs and gobs of SMS space available. But now will there be anyone to spend it on??
Quote from: Waffler on February 05, 2025, 04:56:23 PMOne thing I am wondering...
Once the window closes Feb. 9, pending free agents will have an exclusive 48-hour negotiating period with the teams they remain under contract with. Every CFL club will be provided any offers the pending free agents received during the weeklong open window timeline.
Great find Waffler! I didn't know about that. That would negate any advantage a team who got the news early (if any) had. That would allow us to match/beat the Lawler deal now that we know we have gobs of extra SMS to spend!
Dobson too!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 05, 2025, 04:30:22 PMWow, Ambrosie needs to be congratulated, "Randy...now where did he go?" Wonder what it was that brought in the extra revenue? Sports gambling?
Haha, this isn't Ambrosie/CFL money to spend, this is entirely the teams' money! Easy for Ambrosie to up the limit since it's not his dime! :D :D
I think it might be nice to have the SMS slightly unaffordable for around half the teams, so that there's some incentive for teams to make lots of money and be more successful!
Right now teams like WFC not only gain no on-field advantage for being the best run business, but they also get penalized by having to pay everyone else's "equalization" payments!
If the SMS was higher than some teams wanted to spend, then we can gain an on-field advantage. Even if it's just 100-200k that would be a good incentive.
400k is nothing to sneeze at! So many posters were saying last season the CFL is always poor and broke and teams don't want to spend, must have small caps, etc. 400k kind of proves that wrong! Either that or Ambrosie is nuts! Then again, I'm sure this had to pass a majority of team owners.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 05, 2025, 04:24:41 PMThe Lions did that with Rourke. The promo money is set with a minimum of $200K with any excess charged to the SMS. In that sense it's the same kind of penalty as with the normal SMS. It could result in an overage to the set maximum SMS.
It could be argued that the publicity work by Rourke is worth $200K. I'd argue it isn't.
Quote from: TBURGESS on February 05, 2025, 09:20:02 PMThe minimum is defined, but it's not $200K. The maximum isn't defined & there is no mention of it being charged to the SMS. There was an article that said it should be added to the SMS, but that's not what the contract says.
Ya BinBC you're forgetting the revelation from December re: BC! We don't want to get started on this topic again!
Marketing money is completely unlimited and
does not count on the SMS! The only stipulation is you need to justify/prove how you spent it (whatever that means)!
Still waiting on the final SMS overage report for BC in 2025... Maybe in April? A lot of people here are gonna owe me some Walby burgers when it's over $250k!! ;) ;) ;)
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 05, 2025, 01:42:54 PMIncreasing by $400K for 2025!!!!!!!!!!!!!
$400k is huge. This is near what I was begging for on the forum last year! We need to compensate for the huge inflation and crap dollar. We need to keep top guys from retiring early (a la Goosen), especially NATs. We need to try beat out the garbage leagues down south. We need to be more competitive for our top stars vs PR spots in the NFL. The pot has to be sweetened. This is a great start!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 06, 2025, 08:28:14 AMGreat find Waffler! I didn't know about that. That would negate any advantage a team who got the news early (if any) had. That would allow us to match/beat the Lawler deal now that we know we have gobs of extra SMS to spend!
Dobson too!
1. If we didn't want to compete with other teams' offers before the increase, we still wont.
2. I'm still betting that teams knew about the increase. If we don't see any of the terms change between now and FA, then no one was caught off guard by this except the media.
I think teams didn't know and I'm just basing this on reported numbers which seem based on the same cap. Schoen and Lawler both making less for example.
It would only take one player to start a domino effect. Let's say we were to lose Logan or White to their original teams, might we not rethink our offer to Lawler? There is a lot of extra money in play.
Like Jesse said it's all based on what teams knew at the beginning of the week. We'll soon find out.
Media reporting now that no one knew before the announcement.
https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/cfl/winnipeg-bluebombers/cfl-salary-cap-chaos-should-have-bombers-chasing-lawler
"General mangers around the league were taken by surprise at the amount of the hike, and so were players."
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 06, 2025, 08:36:26 AMYa BinBC you're forgetting the revelation from December re: BC! We don't want to get started on this topic again!
Marketing money is completely unlimited and does not count on the SMS! The only stipulation is you need to justify/prove how you spent it (whatever that means)!
Still waiting on the final SMS overage report for BC in 2025... Maybe in April? A lot of people here are gonna owe me some Walby burgers when it's over $250k!! ;) ;) ;)
I don't know where you're getting that. Marketing money over $200K counts against the SMS is my understanding. If it was truly unlimited and not against the SMS then there isn't any SMS.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 06, 2025, 08:39:13 AM$400k is huge. This is near what I was begging for on the forum last year! We need to compensate for the huge inflation and crap dollar. We need to keep top guys from retiring early (a la Goosen), especially NATs. We need to try beat out the garbage leagues down south. We need to be more competitive for our top stars vs PR spots in the NFL. The pot has to be sweetened. This is a great start!
It only works if revenue increased and apparently it did. You can't just throw more money at any business without that happening.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 06, 2025, 01:06:33 PMI don't know where you're getting that. Marketing money over $200K counts against the SMS is my understanding. If it was truly unlimited and not against the SMS then there isn't any SMS.
I quoted the contract that doesn't say that. Can you quote a source, equal to or better than the actual contact, that backs your understanding?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 06, 2025, 08:28:14 AMGreat find Waffler! I didn't know about that. That would negate any advantage a team who got the news early (if any) had. That would allow us to match/beat the Lawler deal now that we know we have gobs of extra SMS to spend!
Dobson too!
No way we overpay Lawler and Dobson just because we have new $SMS money. Its not the Mafia way.
We're not a "Moneyball" team, but we're not the Yankees either.
Walters consistantly cobbles together championship calibre rosters without breaking the bank. He understands there are going to be losses every year, NFL or drunken sailor CFL GM's, that are willing to outspend us. He knows that we can survive a few losses each year because we have, on average, an above average team, and each year he scores a few new recruits or overlooked players that perform high above their paygrade.
Players we lost, mostly to Goveia, aren't coming back. The fact that they left is enough alone. even if we could now match or improve on their tamper deals,why would we bring those traitors ;D ;) back.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 06, 2025, 03:22:48 PMNo way we overpay Lawler and Dobson just because we have new $SMS money. Its not the Mafia way.
We're not a "Moneyball" team, but we're not the Yankees either.
Walters consistantly cobbles together championship calibre rosters without breaking the bank. He understands there are going to be losses every year, NFL or drunken sailor CFL GM's, that are willing to outspend us. He knows that we can survive a few losses each year because we have, on average, an above average team, and each year he scores a few new recruits or overlooked players that perform high above their paygrade.
Players we lost, mostly to Goveia, aren't coming back. The fact that they left is enough alone. even if we could now match or improve on their tamper deals,why would we bring those traitors ;D ;) back.
We're a salary cap league, aards. Everyone spends the same amount of money.
We've build the entire core of our roster by making guys the highest paid at their positions: Bighill, Jefferson, Lawler, Collaros.
You are completely making this up as you go along.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 06, 2025, 08:33:02 AMHaha, this isn't Ambrosie/CFL money to spend, this is entirely the teams' money! Easy for Ambrosie to up the limit since it's not his dime! :D :D
I think it might be nice to have the SMS slightly unaffordable for around half the teams, so that there's some incentive for teams to make lots of money and be more successful!
Right now teams like WFC not only gain no on-field advantage for being the best run business, but they also get penalized by having to pay everyone else's "equalization" payments!
If the SMS was higher than some teams wanted to spend, then we can gain an on-field advantage. Even if it's just 100-200k that would be a good incentive.
400k is nothing to sneeze at! So many posters were saying last season the CFL is always poor and broke and teams don't want to spend, must have small caps, etc. 400k kind of proves that wrong! Either that or Ambrosie is nuts! Then again, I'm sure this had to pass a majority of team owners.
I think the league probably created the new revenue, not the teams, if you didn't notice most stadiums were half empty last season, including Sask. Hamilton, Ottawa, Edmonton and Calgary....almost all attendance looked to be down, except Wpg. and Mtl. BC might have gone up, but Doman spent it as fast as he made it.
Quote from: Jesse on February 06, 2025, 06:20:51 PMWe're a salary cap league, aards. Everyone spends the same amount of money.
We've build the entire core of our roster by making guys the highest paid at their positions: Bighill, Jefferson, Lawler, Collaros.
You are completely making this up as you go along.
Well said.
You could add Oliveira, Demski, Stanley, etc. to that list. Perennial all-stars rarely get short-changed in contracts, if ever.
Ya gotta pay to play*. That's not debatable.
*
contend as consistently as this team has
Is Chung still out there? That would solve a lot of needs.
"Lawler on Monday agreed to an offer from Hamilton for some $75,000 more per season than Winnipeg offered"
I knew the $ had to be over $30k more than our offer for Kenny to bail again. They made him an offer he couldn't refuse, and I'm fine with him bailing for 75k.
But now we have the $400k to play with, pay it (well, 30k less than 75k!) and get him back!
Quote from: DM83 on February 06, 2025, 11:26:16 PMIs Chung still out there? That would solve a lot of needs.
He'll never leave BC. And they'll never release him. Plus, he's getting to be old now.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 06, 2025, 07:17:26 PMI think the league probably created the new revenue, not the teams
Now that we have the Sun article, ya, it looks like the extra bump will be made possible through extra revenue sharing. Still, I like the idea of making teams come up with (at least some/most of) the money.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 06, 2025, 01:06:33 PMI don't know where you're getting that. Marketing money over $200K counts against the SMS is my understanding. If it was truly unlimited and not against the SMS then there isn't any SMS.
Quote from: TBURGESS on February 06, 2025, 02:47:46 PMI quoted the contract that doesn't say that. Can you quote a source, equal to or better than the actual contact, that backs your understanding?
TB is right. We put this to bed after the GC. The SSK forum had a much better discussion about it. They hate BC and their shenanigans more than I do!!
All that marketing money was just free outside-of-SMS giveaways to Rourke and Betts. It's all just lies and nonsense to cheat. And if that's the playing field the CFL has created, we should be doing it too. Just doing what BC did we can give Kenny an extra $200k for marketing, completely SMS-free! Do it KW!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 07, 2025, 04:11:14 AMHe'll never leave BC. And they'll never release him. Plus, he's getting to be old now.
Chungh is a FA. At 32 he is a kid compared to some of the players on our OL.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 06, 2025, 03:22:48 PMNo way we overpay Lawler and Dobson just because we have new $SMS money. Its not the Mafia way.
Sure it is. We made an offer in good faith based on the knowledge at the time regarding SMS cap. Now we have new knowledge that we have an extra $400k to spend across the roster as we see fit.
Half the guys are already locked in stone, so all that remaining money is gravy to go chase those who bailed or new FA talent.
We literally
have to spend it, and the choices on how to do so are dwindling fast.
So if we undershot HAM on Kenny by $75k before, we can take $50k of the newfound $400k and get Kenny back. What we won't do is play bidding war if HAM then says they'll pay him an extra $50k too! But I have a sneaking suspicion that a couple of teams (like HAM) got wind of the extra $400k ahead of time and have already taken that into account.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 07, 2025, 04:46:53 AMChungh is a FA. At 32 he is a kid compared to some of the players on our OL.
Hah, ya. I guess. Stan & Neuf are older by a fair chunk. Still, our M.O. is usually to have 2-3 oldsters on OL, not 3-4.
I still maintain he won't leave BC. Wasn't the whole deal when he left WPG that that is where he was from?
That said, in one of the games this year Chungh screwed up on a downfield block and their run play failed and he was swearing loudly and having a tantrum right on TV. It was really funny. There's a non-zero chance he's sick of losing in that club...
My guess is he's just holding out for more payday and maybe BC is trying to shortchange him, but he'll resign at a slightly lower price soon.
Quote from: TBURGESS on February 06, 2025, 02:47:46 PMI quoted the contract that doesn't say that. Can you quote a source, equal to or better than the actual contact, that backs your understanding?
I'll look for it but it's the only thing that makes sense. You can't have a promo total $$ that is infinite.
Your post mentioned it would be audited. Why would it be audited if there was no limit. I don't really see anything in your post that is definitive one way or the other.
EDIT: Found this which suggests you're right but that there is a grey area caveat in the auditing. Another Ambrosie mess up IMO. How and who determines the marketing value of any player. It could be argued that Rourke is worth $200K or not as the face of the team. That's somewhat regardless of what off field stuff he does.
If he is, then so is Collaros or other starting QB's.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://3downnation.com/2024/11/12/cfl-teams-could-face-salary-cap-punishments-for-abuse-of-marketing-money-randy-ambrosie/&ved=2ahUKEwiN06697LGLAxW9HDQIHV_yKP8QFnoECCQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2wLTAOnCo5H2pisVE0wmag
Anyway. What changes happen now with this increase to the SMS cap? What is equitable? I don't want to see top players renegotiating another $50K on top of $250K for example. As I've suggested, I prefer increasing the ELC but by how much.
Adding another Canadian or 2 to the roster is also appealing.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 07, 2025, 02:05:38 PMI'll look for it but it's the only thing that makes sense. You can't have a promo total $$ that is infinite.
Your post mentioned it would be audited. Why would it be audited if there was no limit. I don't really see anything in your post that is definitive one way or the other.
EDIT: Found this which suggests you're right but that there is a grey area caveat in the auditing. Another Ambrosie mess up IMO. How and who determines the marketing value of any player. It could be argued that Rourke is worth $200K or not as the face of the team. That's somewhat regardless of what off field stuff he does.
If he is, then so is Collaros or other starting QB's.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://3downnation.com/2024/11/12/cfl-teams-could-face-salary-cap-punishments-for-abuse-of-marketing-money-randy-ambrosie/&ved=2ahUKEwiN06697LGLAxW9HDQIHV_yKP8QFnoECCQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2wLTAOnCo5H2pisVE0wmag
It's a glaring error in the contract that the Lions took advantage of.
You can't change a contract after the fact without all parties signing off on the change. BC wouldn't sign. The players wouldn't sign. Therefore, retroactively saying that they could face SMS punishments is just sabre-rattling IMO.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 07, 2025, 08:49:19 AMSure it is. We made an offer in good faith based on the knowledge at the time regarding SMS cap. Now we have new knowledge that we have an extra $400k to spend across the roster as we see fit.
Half the guys are already locked in stone, so all that remaining money is gravy to go chase those who bailed or new FA talent.
We literally have to spend it, and the choices on how to do so are dwindling fast.
So if we undershot HAM on Kenny by $75k before, we can take $50k of the newfound $400k and get Kenny back. What we won't do is play bidding war if HAM then says they'll pay him an extra $50k too! But I have a sneaking suspicion that a couple of teams (like HAM) got wind of the extra $400k ahead of time and have already taken that into account.
Walters certainly isn't required to spend to the limit at this time, he could always save any unused funds as a buffer for the IR and to re-up players heading towards FA near the end of the season, like he did in his early years.
As for Lawler, I think Walters determined he's worth upto $250k and not beyond, no matter the extra cash available. Good to see fiscal management return to the ledger.
As for Suhk Chungh, he's the King of Surrey, the Lions would be dumb not to promote his connection to the East Indian community to buildup their fanbase.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 07, 2025, 04:59:22 PMWalters certainly isn't required to spend to the limit at this time, he could always save any unused funds as a buffer for the IR and to re-up players heading towards FA near the end of the season, like he did in his early years.
As for Lawler, I think Walters determined he's worth upto $250k and not beyond, no matter the extra cash available. Good to see fiscal management return to the ledger.
As for Suhk Chungh, he's the King of Surrey, the Lions would be dumb not to promote his connection to the East Indian community to buildup their fanbase.
It's not that easy. The SMS will also have that $400K increase in 2026. Yes we could use any 2025 SMS leftover but that's just doubling down in the extra 2026 money issue.
The motivation to sign late in 2025 will be less and the potential list could be even longer than this year.
I don't really expect Collaros to be back in 2026. It's not that we have an alternative at the moment. However does that mean he asks for $700K or $750K but we're flush with cash?
IMO fans want to see more money for going to the bottom half of the roster. The intent of the shared revenue increase wasn't to create upward space for the top 12 players ( as an example ).
What the CFLPA expected when an increase happened is only a question. I don't think anyone expected this large an increase in 1 off season.
Some sort of fair formula is needed. While I'm open to suggestion I still think raising the ELC is an immediate action that would be a fair start.
It would have been somewhat easier if this happened at the end of November. Teams would have adjusted accordingly. The problem with that is we clearly would have seen some egregious increases for TOP players in bidding wars.
Whether we agree with those results or not, the marketplace makes those the new reality.
Using Lawler as the example without knowing what we offered: Do we offer him $300K to surpass the TiCat offer because we have money to burn?
I'd be against that concept for any potential free agent, but what is there to stop any team from doing that now?
This could get ugly and the 11th is just a few days away. It shouldn't take long to see if any of that happens.
The CFLPA appears to be trying to use the increase to disperse equally amongst all players and/or used as training camp salary or bumps to the play-off bonuses.
I think that's why you won't see teams suddenly jump their offers to players. The money might get accounted for before teams can use it.
Quote from: Jesse on February 07, 2025, 05:30:53 PMThe CFLPA appears to be trying to use the increase to disperse equally amongst all players and/or used as training camp salary or bumps to the play-off bonuses.
I think that's why you won't see teams suddenly jump their offers to players. The money might get accounted for before teams can use it.
I don't know about the equally idea. The roster is 45 players. $1K per player is $45K of the the new money. $1K to an ELC is more significant than another $1K to Collaros. What's the actual definition they consider as equally? The increase is about $7%. That means about $5K to an ELC but about $42K to Collaros. Like I said a formula is needed but this is going to a a tough one.
Giving a bunch of rookies extra money I would disagree with that idea.
Playoff money comes from the league not the teams or SMS doesn't it?
The tampering period offers can't be revoked. If a players current team increases their offer, I'm not sure if you don't get a counter counter offer after the 11th. A player could re-neg and go to free agency and see what happens.
I do think we'll see a few teams that might bump an offer to a player they didn't want to lose. That may be a small number, but I think we'll see a few.
So, I guess the average CFL salary is over 120K?
It would be nice if they paid refs a living wage.
I really don't think we have a need to bust the bank for Lawler or Dobson. Our roster has been filled in nicely without them. Upping the offers to them sets a bad precedent.
Guys that wanted to be here are going to be better for the team than mercenaries. Mitchell and Jon Jones both said the precise right things about signing here that this team wants to hear. Lawler said it when he came back.
We've had to make some tough decisions this off season, Biggie, Woli, Lawler, Dobson... this is a business, and whether is a decision based on price (Lawler, Dobson), or a decision based on having the roster spots covered by someone younger, cheaper, healthier (Biggie, Woli), you have to make those tough calls.
There are still FA's left that we haven't heard mentioned as having agree elsewhere who might still end up on our roster, but I think for the most part, the roster is set... Walters made decisions and stuck to his guns, and I think has made the best off season decisions. Not the biggest or flashiest, but the ones that make what was one of the best teams a little bit better, and a lot deeper going into camp.
Waiting for Jarious Jackson to step up for the QB room, it will be interesting to see if we add a known QB, re-sign Streveler, or bring in some new faces for mini camp and TC. He may have the toughest coaching job on the team, tougher than OC, in concentrating on prepping for the post Zach era.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 07, 2025, 05:53:03 PMI don't know about the equally idea. The roster is 45 players. $1K per player is $5K of the the new money. $1K to an ELC is more significant than another $1K to Collaros. What's the actual definition they consider as equally? The increase is about $7%. That means about $5K to an ELC but about $42K to Collaros. Like I said a formula is needed but this is going to a a tough one.
Giving a bunch of rookies extra money I would disagree with that idea.
Playoff money comes from the league not the teams or SMS doesn't it?
The tampering period offers can't be revoked. If a players current team increases their offer, I'm not sure if you don't get a counter counter offer after the 11th. A player could re-neg and go to free agency and see what happens.
I do think we'll see a few teams that might bump an offer to a player they didn't want to lose. That may be a small number, but I think we'll see a few.
I don't think they have a formula for it, because there's nothing agreed on. Could be equally, could be related to the size of their contracts.
Rookies would not be included though. This money is from previous years so they wouldn't be entitled to it.
It would be nice if the league tossed some of that extra money into playoff bonuses... make it a little more lucrative to make the playoffs, and win. I know it sounds like a lot of free money on top of the contract, but when you calculate it:
A Grey Cup appearance cheque is $8k, winner is $16k. The equivalent of a game cheque for a player making $144k or $288k.
$3,400/ $3,600 for the DSF and DF is actually less than any rostered player makes for a regular season game (equivalent to a salary of under $70k for the year)
Get it up to at least $6k for a DSF and DF game, and $12k/$20k for the cup.
Or more.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 07, 2025, 07:04:09 PMIt would be nice if the league tossed some of that extra money into playoff bonuses... make it a little more lucrative to make the playoffs, and win. I know it sounds like a lot of free money on top of the contract, but when you calculate it:
A Grey Cup appearance cheque is $8k, winner is $16k. The equivalent of a game cheque for a player making $144k or $288k.
$3,400/ $3,600 for the DSF and DF is actually less than any rostered player makes for a regular season game (equivalent to a salary of under $70k for the year)
Get it up to at least $6k for a DSF and DF game, and $12k/$20k for the cup.
Or more.
They absolutely need to do this - but it can't come from the salary cap, right?
This is after the season is played. So it technically has nothing to do with these discussions as far as I know, but Dunk did bring it up when I heard him speaking about the subject.
Quote from: Jesse on February 07, 2025, 06:43:08 PMI don't think they have a formula for it, because there's nothing agreed on. Could be equally, could be related to the size of their contracts.
Rookies would not be included though. This money is from previous years so they wouldn't be entitled to it.
Agreed, every team is free to spend the bonus how they see fit, which is maybe the only statement they could get the BOG to agree upon.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 07, 2025, 07:22:49 PMAgreed, every team is free to spend the bonus how they see fit, which is maybe the only statement they could get the BOG to agree upon.
I don't know if that's true right now.
I think the CFLPA is arguing for something uniform across the league. Whether it happens or not of course...
Quote from: Jesse on February 07, 2025, 07:13:58 PMThey absolutely need to do this - but it can't come from the salary cap, right?
This is after the season is played. So it technically has nothing to do with these discussions as far as I know, but Dunk did bring it up when I heard him speaking about the subject.
Playoff money is always paid out by the league, non $SMS. Not sure exactly how much they get from the teams for the finals or the cup, but the league does make money off those games.
Quote from: peg_city on February 07, 2025, 06:20:11 PMSo, I guess the average CFL salary is over 120K?
It would be nice if they paid refs a living wage.
Back to this. It feels like a nice recruitment pitch to say that the average CFL player makes 100K USD (which the CFL will get there in the next couple of years). That's not chump-change.
Quote from: peg_city on February 07, 2025, 08:12:21 PMBack to this. It feels like a nice recruitment pitch to say that the average CFL player makes 100K USD (which the CFL will get there in the next couple of years). That's not chump-change.
Average is deceptive. The ELC is still just over $70K CAD? That's not chump change either for a 22 - 25 year old player. Then there is the issue of 12 players per team on the PR for rent money.
Quote from: Jesse on February 07, 2025, 07:25:10 PMI don't know if that's true right now.
I think the CFLPA is arguing for something uniform across the league. Whether it happens or not of course...
The time for arguing is over, they released the money and with it should have released a clear concise statement explaining it's purpose, can't decide how it should be used after the fact. But again, this is the CFL so almost anything is possible I suppose.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 07, 2025, 08:54:17 PMThe time for arguing is over, they released the money and with it should have released a clear concise statement explaining it's purpose, can't decide how it should be used after the fact. But again, this is the CFL so almost anything is possible I suppose.
Releasing it midway through FA was incompetent.
This is all damage control.
Quote from: Jesse on February 07, 2025, 09:43:27 PMReleasing it midway through FA was incompetent.
This is all damage control.
Agreed. Every player who signed before the announcement got screwed out of a potential bump in pay. Will those players go to their GMs and ask for a retroactive bump? (Again, it's why I think some teams were notified to give them an advantage... look at MTL who re-signed like 75% of their FAs a long time ago, at least all the good ones.)
It's kind of backwards, as the players who re-signed early are the "loyal" and "nice" ones, and the ones waiting for their FA payday are the "mercenaries". The mercenaries are possibly going to take home near 100% of the $400k increase!
For instance, Kenny could get a counteroffer of and extra $40-$60k from us because he played FA, whilst Schoen not only gets shafted with his reduced "injury" contract, but also can't partake in the $400k bump!
Quote from: Jesse on February 07, 2025, 07:25:10 PMI don't know if that's true right now.
I think the CFLPA is arguing for something uniform across the league. Whether it happens or not of course...
CFLPA has no standing here. Their CBA is in place and they are always begging for more player money. Well, they just got it! It's a bloody free for all right now and I fully expect a wacky Feb 11 FA.
Quote from: Jesse on February 07, 2025, 06:43:08 PMRookies would not be included though. This money is from previous years so they wouldn't be entitled to it.
Maybe not entitled, but rookies will 100% partake in portions of the $400k. Even though it may be a "reward" for making the league more successful last year, it goes into this year's SMS.
So, for example, Biggie will never see a dime of this even though he worked for it! Doh.
The only way it could be otherwise is if the bonus was automatically disbursed to 2024 players as a proportion of their salary to the total cap. And clearly they aren't doing that.
It's good it's the former because the idea is to incentivize current-year guys to sign and/or stay to improve the product, and (as cold as it sounds) the aged-out don't help with that.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 07, 2025, 06:34:42 PMI really don't think we have a need to bust the bank for Lawler or Dobson. Our roster has been filled in nicely without them. Upping the offers to them sets a bad precedent.
I think we should go hard after Kenny. We have no circus guy right now. No guy that will lay out and make the Dress catch. Pokey might be able to take that over, but no guarantee he'll be back.
Kenny spelled it out on social that he wants to be here but the payday was just too big to resist. We only need to get to within $30k of HAM's offer to keep him... even if HAM ups their offer after we up our offer, I think we should do it. I'm fine with $275k for Kenny (vs our $225 offer before) given that we have $400k new money to blow.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 07, 2025, 05:23:28 PMIMO fans want to see more money for going to the bottom half of the roster. The intent of the shared revenue increase wasn't to create upward space for the top 12 players ( as an example ).
I don't know about that. I think fans just want to see their team win.
I want to see the top and middling tier players have better retention -- from retirement and NFL PR and garbage leagues -- by offering more competitive salaries. I want guys like Goosen to not retire so early. I want all the NFL-PR-sitters to come back sooner, and/or only take 6 months to lose the NFL dream rather than 2 years like some do. I want to lose zero desired players to the garbage leagues.
This $400k can make a huge difference in this. You can take 8 guys who would have bailed and give them an extra $50k each. That might just be enough to keep The Goose (and all like him) in the league.
Yes, I guess I'm saying the rookies and ELCs and DPs don't get squat. But those guys are almost never the key to a great on-field product. Besides, whether they get $68k or $70k won't really matter to them. If they are on ELC, they're doing it for the potential big payday in 2 years.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 07, 2025, 04:59:22 PMWalters certainly isn't required to spend to the limit at this time, he could always save any unused funds as a buffer for the IR and to re-up players heading towards FA near the end of the season, like he did in his early years.
WFC will always spend near to the limit, because we're a perennial GC competitor. And we have overflowing coffers. If we ever have money leftover for back-end re-signings, that's good fortune, not necessarily the plan.
And especially in 2025 we should be signing tight to the cap, if not exceeding it by BC levels. This isn't the year to get chintzy.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 07, 2025, 02:05:38 PMI'll look for it but it's the only thing that makes sense. You can't have a promo total $$ that is infinite.
Glad to see you rediscovered what we learned in Dec! Yes Gracie, the marketing money is infinite. No it doesn't make sense. Yes, this is why the forums were blowing up when it was revealed.
Yes, BC is using this unlimited free non-SMS money to "cheat" with some players. I don't see why we aren't doing the same in our GC year. I bet every other team will be doing a heck of a lot more "marketing" in 2025.
It is incompetent. We already budgeted our players contracts at a certain point. Now the signed guys should get a pro rated addition, as being loyal and possibly signing a reduced amount salary.
If we had known we could have offered Lawler and others a higher offer.
Quote from: DM83 on February 08, 2025, 04:45:12 AMIf we had known we could have offered Lawler and others a higher offer.
Still can. Apparently the tamper period "deals" are not binding until FA opens.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 08, 2025, 02:16:53 AMI don't know about that. I think fans just want to see their team win.
I want to see the top and middling tier players have better retention -- from retirement and NFL PR and garbage leagues -- by offering more competitive salaries. I want guys like Goosen to not retire so early. I want all the NFL-PR-sitters to come back sooner, and/or only take 6 months to lose the NFL dream rather than 2 years like some do. I want to lose zero desired players to the garbage leagues.
This $400k can make a huge difference in this. You can take 8 guys who would have bailed and give them an extra $50k each. That might just be enough to keep The Goose (and all like him) in the league.
Yes, I guess I'm saying the rookies and ELCs and DPs don't get squat. But those guys are almost never the key to a great on-field product. Besides, whether they get $68k or $70k won't really matter to them. If they are on ELC, they're doing it for the potential big payday in 2 years.
I disagree strongly. It's not the players that have been in the CFL for extended times or are earning high salaries that are leaving.
For the Bombers in recent years it's been Ford, Ayers and O. Wilson. Two of which came back and Wilson might yet be back.
Paying Lawler $285K last year didn't keep him here or Lewis in Edmonton. There is always another CFL team that opens the wallet.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 08, 2025, 02:06:28 PMI disagree strongly. It's not the players that have been in the CFL for extended times or are earning high salaries that are leaving.
For the Bombers in recent years it's been Ford, Ayers and O. Wilson. Two of which came back and Wilson might yet be back.
Paying Lawler $285K last year didn't keep him here or Lewis in Edmonton. There is always another CFL team that opens the wallet.
Yes. You raise the floor and we're able to bring in a higher quality of prospect in the first place.
There are so many players who stagnate on teams' negotiation lists unwilling to come up here. That's where we have potential to see some difference.
Quote from: Jesse on February 08, 2025, 02:16:11 PMYes. You raise the floor and we're able to bring in a higher quality of prospect in the first place.
There are so many players who stagnate on teams' negotiation lists unwilling to come up here. That's where we have potential to see some difference.
I'm not sure that is true either. Teams sign neg list players all the time. Those that don't come to Canada may sit out a season or end their football careers all together.
There might be a line drawn for some players where increasing the floor might change their minds. It's not like we're able to increase the floor to $100K.
Often players play out their ELC like Ford and leave for a big payday elsewhere in the CFL. At that point we sign new players on ELC to hopefully balance the SMS across the roster.
Keep in mind if you raise the floor you lose some of the SMS space at the top of the SMS spend.
Every TC we look at a lot of players in mini camps and probably have 35-40 rookies in TC. I don't think it would be difficult to bring in more but there is a mandated limit and a very short TC.
Quote from: Jesse on February 08, 2025, 02:16:11 PMYes. You raise the floor and we're able to bring in a higher quality of prospect in the first place.
There are so many players who stagnate on teams' negotiation lists unwilling to come up here. That's where we have potential to see some difference.
I've never paid much attention to these negotiation lists, seems it's a list of players they hope to land but seldom do. Are there any players on the current team that came through their neg. list?
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 08, 2025, 03:37:36 PMI've never paid much attention to these negotiation lists, seems it's a list of players they hope to land but seldom do. Are there any players on the current team that came through their neg. list?
There are some and that was posted during last season. The names escape me at the moment but more come and go than stick. It's only 45 players and some are still playing in college.
Teams shuffle through more than that in mini camps and TC.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 08, 2025, 05:07:24 PMThere are some and that was posted during last season. The names escape me at the moment but more come and go than stick. It's only 45 players and some are still playing in college.
Teams shuffle through more than that in mini camps and TC.
I know QB Eric Barriere was on their neg. list last year, not sure if every Import they wish to sign in the future comes in that way or not.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 08, 2025, 02:06:28 PMI disagree strongly. It's not the players that have been in the CFL for extended times or are earning high salaries that are leaving.
For the Bombers in recent years it's been Ford, Ayers and O. Wilson. Two of which came back and Wilson might yet be back.
That's precisely my point. You take 5-10 guys who are tempted purely by money to try other leagues (or retire) and those are the guys you dole the $400k out to. For some it may be enough to retain them. Obviously some will take the NFL shot if they feel they have a legit chance (I'd say none of the above do!), but maybe we can make it so some won't even bother? Especially when it comes to the low-paying leagues.
Also guys like Biggie (IIRC), Strevie, or Rourke who took >1 year in the NFL to decide to come back. Ya, maybe the hopefuls go down for a few months, but if there's extra money up here maybe they come back
sooner -- like the labor-day returnees, rather than languishing on PRs. (Ya, Strevie ended up getting his magic "pension", but that's by far the rare exception.)
Ya, so we're only talking about maybe $40-80k extra per that kind of player, but at the
margin it may affect something. My goal would be to have the CFL allow a promising AR player earn more
playing here than as a languishing
PR guy in the NFL.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 09, 2025, 05:40:23 AMThat's precisely my point. You take 5-10 guys who are tempted purely by money to try other leagues (or retire) and those are the guys you dole the $400k out to. For some it may be enough to retain them. Obviously some will take the NFL shot if they feel they have a legit chance (I'd say none of the above do!), but maybe we can make it so some won't even bother? Especially when it comes to the low-paying leagues.
Also guys like Biggie (IIRC), Strevie, or Rourke who took >1 year in the NFL to decide to come back. Ya, maybe the hopefuls go down for a few months, but if there's extra money up here maybe they come back sooner -- like the labor-day returnees, rather than languishing on PRs. (Ya, Strevie ended up getting his magic "pension", but that's by far the rare exception.)
Ya, so we're only talking about maybe $40-80k extra per that kind of player, but at the margin it may affect something. My goal would be to have the CFL allow a promising AR player earn more playing here than as a languishing PR guy in the NFL.
You're dreaming. If a player wants or thinks he can get an NFL deal, even a PR deal, he's gone. What team has ever had 5 - 10 players that might skip to the NFL? So far in 2025 we've only seen about 10 CFL players from across the CFL get any sort of NFL futures deal. Of those how many will be back before LD this season?
At what point would you give that player and extension with that large an increase when the NFL option allows him to leave anyway?
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 09, 2025, 01:32:41 PMYou're dreaming. If a player wants or thinks he can get an NFL deal, even a PR deal, he's gone. What team has ever had 5 - 10 players that might skip to the NFL? So far in 2025 we've only seen about 10 CFL players from across the CFL get any sort of NFL futures deal. Of those how many will be back before LD this season?
At what point would you give that player and extension with that large an increase when the NFL option allows him to leave anyway?
IMO not enough CFL players get legitimate NFL tryouts each season to make it worthwhile offering the NFL option as a feature of all contracts. I'm fine if 20 players with legitimate chances of getting NFL offers never come North, if we never knew 'em, we won't miss 'em. I couldn't name 3 current NFL stars and I don't really care.
The CFL has to learn to stand on it's own feet and find a comfortable salary they can offer ELC American players that make it an appealing option to continue their football career after the NFL has already ignored or rejected them. CFL scouts should stop promoting the chance to build up game film and "maybe" earn another shot as a way to trick them into signing. Promote the league on it's own merits, of which there are many.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 09, 2025, 04:55:41 PMIMO not enough CFL players get legitimate NFL tryouts each season to make it worthwhile offering the NFL option as a feature of all contracts. I'm fine if 20 players with legitimate chances of getting NFL offers never come North, if we never knew 'em, we won't miss 'em. I couldn't name 3 current NFL stars and I don't even care.
The CFL has to learn to stand on it's own feet and find a comfortable salary they can offer ELC American players that make it an appealing option to continue their football career after the NFL has already ignored or rejected them. CFL scouts should stop promoting the chance to build up game film and "maybe" earn another shot as a way to trick them into signing. Promote the league on it's own merits, of which there are many.
Yeah, I've never been a fan of the NFL option making any sense. Although the CFL doesn't lose many ELC players after their 1st or even 2nd season, it just adds uncertainty.
Ford only played 1 real game as a starter in 2022 then skipped the 2023 season trying to land an NFL deal. He suit up for 12 games in 2022. I understand that but then we really only got 2024 as a full season as a starter.
It's more problematic when we lose a Canadian for a year on a 3 year ELC. That's a supply demand issue. In that sense the option year issue is worse than for an import. The flip side is that CFL contracts are not guaranteed.
Unfortunately the option year is part of the CFLPA deal at the moment.
So back to the issue with another $400K for 2025. The total SMS is the total regardless of the new number. Whatever increase that happens at the bottom this year has no impact on what happens at the top of the roster. The SMS for 2026 will still include the $400K.
Has anyone heard what the CFLPA had in mind with extra money when they built in revenue sharing? It's still my view they looked to increase from the bottom up. In theory the PR money could be increased but is that necessary and does it create an actual benefit to the teams? I'd rather add 2 more players than increase the PR money.
The NFL option is the only way to get players to sign multi year deals. The number of players that we lose each year is statistically insignificant, but the option is huge for the rest of players signing multi year deals.
Sure, we lose a Wilson now and then, or an Alford. But them being in the NFL means CFL mentions as well. Which then puts our league on the map for both new viewers and new recruits.
Its not like a player can bail mid season, or in TC. There is a very simple window of opportunity, and you have to get signed to stay down there. Reasonable for all parties.
For many of these players, especially on ELC's, the opportunity to showcase their talents in the CFL is worth more than what they are getting paid. Do you think Streveler gets enough games in the NFL for a pension without his stint in the CFL?
Quote from: theaardvark on February 09, 2025, 05:26:10 PMThe NFL option is the only way to get players to sign multi year deals. The number of players that we lose each year is statistically insignificant, but the option is huge for the rest of players signing multi year deals.
Sure, we lose a Wilson now and then, or an Alford. But them being in the NFL means CFL mentions as well. Which then puts our league on the map for both new viewers and new recruits.
Its not like a player can bail mid season, or in TC. There is a very simple window of opportunity, and you have to get signed to stay down there. Reasonable for all parties.
For many of these players, especially on ELC's, the opportunity to showcase their talents in the CFL is worth more than what they are getting paid. Do you think Streveler gets enough games in the NFL for a pension without his stint in the CFL?
No it's not. We didn't have the option deal for a longer time than we've have had it. There was no issue getting players. As mentioned, these players would be sitting out the season if not coming to the CFL. The supply of imports is extensive.
Even worse is the veteran player ability to sign only 1 year deals. That creates turnover and SMS dilemma each off season.
Ayers, Bonds and Wilson all had previous NFL and / or USFL experience. Many CFL rookies have had that happen. There are hundreds of former players just like that, that will spend this season on the coach and never play again.
The NFL will draft about 250 new players this season pushing some to the CFL, USFL or oblivion. There about that many of more draft eligible that don't even get drafted that might get a TC look before exiting.
Bottom line. No shortage of other players to bring to TC.
But the *best* might chase the dream in NFL waiting for even a PR spot, and thinking they are signing a 2 or 3 year commmitment in the CFL at ELC and giving up 1 or 2 years of NFL potential might keep them south a year or two more.
As to vets signing one year deals, that's on the GM's. The league has increased the bargaining for GM's to get longer deals signed with the introduction of guaranteed money in subsequent years for players re-signing, which makes mutli year contracts semi-guaranteed. No where near what the NHL deals are, and the potential for cap issues if you need to move on (like the front office cap) increases, so only durable players with known ability will get some of the small amount of potential guarantees.
Yes, its not optimal, but every player signing an ELC would LOVE to be able to take advantage of the NFL window, and as fans, we should LOVE them to have such a great season that they do. Pokey gave us an amazing season for peanuts, more than replacing Lawler/Schoen on the roster for a fraction of the cost, and has paved the way for the next Pokey to do the same, or to return if he doesn't stick down south.
I really can't believe Streveller got a shot at the NFL, but he did, and it proved what we already know--he's strictly a short yardage/beast run-type Qb only, and can't consistently pass to save his soul. We just re-signed him to do exactly that. He is in no way our #2 Qb, he's proven that over the last 5 years, he isn't all of a sudden going to 'get it', and all of a sudden develop a passing arm, he never had one to begin with.
With all the arms in camp, maybe we keep him on the roster as FB? Probably paying him in that range anyway.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 09, 2025, 08:12:49 PMWith all the arms in camp, maybe we keep him on the roster as FB? Probably paying him in that range anyway.
No. No and no. He's never been used as a blocker and he would take one spot as a DI. He wouldn't be as useful as our Seal in 2023 and we saw how quickly that ended.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 09, 2025, 09:37:18 PMNo. No and no. He's never been used as a blocker and he would take one spot as a DI. He wouldn't be as useful as our Seal in 2023 and we saw how quickly that ended.
He was utilized in 2 QB sets. Rather than calling him FB, how about SB? There are only 3 AR QB spots, we could keep Paterson and Wilson on the AR for development, and use Strevy in SY like Litre...
I know there is no way that happens, if Strevy is on the roster after training camp, then one of Wilson or Patterson is PR/IR.
Wondering if they cut Dolegala now, or wait for the end of camp to have another arm around... does Buck pick up Dolegala? He didn't put him in for the injured Zach, not sure why he was on the roster...
I don't think they cut anyone right now, they go to camp and see how everything plays out. Injuries happen and everything will play out.
All very exciting.
Weird. Strv has a knee held on by one connective tissue and they sign him.
Yet others like Andrew Harris or Biggie are basically ignored. How is that?
Now I like Strev, but I think, that knee will not be ready anytime soon. So, when he comes for the physical, they cut him then? No he would still be on the inj list would he not? He has to be signed to get medical coverage?
Anyway, Dollengia Dolegala, seems to be the odd man out, If we sign Patterson.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 09, 2025, 09:47:10 PMHe was utilized in 2 QB sets. Rather than calling him FB, how about SB? There are only 3 AR QB spots, we could keep Paterson and Wilson on the AR for development, and use Strevy in SY like Litre...
I know there is no way that happens, if Strevy is on the roster after training camp, then one of Wilson or Patterson is PR/IR.
Wondering if they cut Dolegala now, or wait for the end of camp to have another arm around... does Buck pick up Dolegala? He didn't put him in for the injured Zach, not sure why he was on the roster...
Big difference if they use him in 2 QB sets which is allowed. Making him a FB that is not on the roster as a Qb takes a spot from a DI. Not many teams have used the 2 QB idea often or well. It's more of an emergency when a receiver is hurt.
Streveler is not exactly a good receiver and putting him in as a QB with Collaros going out wide is not effective either.
Quote from: DM83 on February 10, 2025, 04:18:14 AMAll very exciting.
Weird. Strv has a knee held on by one connective tissue and they sign him.
Yet others like Andrew Harris or Biggie are basically ignored. How is that?
Now I like Strev, but I think, that knee will not be ready anytime soon. So, when he comes for the physical, they cut him then? No he would still be on the inj list would he not? He has to be signed to get medical coverage?
Anyway, Dollengia Dolegala, seems to be the odd man out, If we sign Patterson.
I don't think he has to be on the IR to have medical coverage.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 10, 2025, 12:58:00 PMI don't think he has to be on the IR to have medical coverage.
He does not. And the length of time a player receives coverage has been extended somewhat from the Hefney days.
A few things though: The Bombers treat their players the right way. They have the money to help a guy like Streveler and if anyone legitimately deserves marketing money it's him. So the thinking may be, most of his salary this year is going to be sheltered with him on the IR, he's great at fan/sponsorship stuff and while he collects a paycheck, he gets to be around the team during the rehab and will absolutely mentor and help the young QBs.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 10, 2025, 01:00:03 PMHe does not. And the length of time a player receives coverage has been extended somewhat from the Hefney days.
A few things though: The Bombers treat their players the right way. They have the money to help a guy like Streveler and if anyone legitimately deserves marketing money it's him. So the thinking may be, most of his salary this year is going to be sheltered with him on the IR, he's great at fan/sponsorship stuff and while he collects a paycheck, he gets to be around the team during the rehab and will absolutely mentor and help the young QBs.
I don't know if that is what they are doing. He might be ready for TC to compete. There is an issue about putting him on the 6 game IR and then cutting him when he's healthy if he is not ready. Then that falls into the timeline about veteran cut down dates involved.
So either:
1. He's ready.
2. He'll be ready after 6 game IR and then plan to activate him.
3. They plan to keep him on the 6 game IR all season to shelter his entire salary etc.
Since I didn't expect the Bombers to re-sign him, the reason is not as obvious. I took that to mean he was ready to compete but that may not be the case. It may be a loyalty thing as you suggested.
Adding Patterson further made me wonder exactly what his status or the QB plan will turn out to be.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 10, 2025, 12:54:38 PMBig difference if they use him in 2 QB sets which is allowed. Making him a FB that is not on the roster as a Qb takes a spot from a DI. Not many teams have used the 2 QB idea often or well. It's more of an emergency when a receiver is hurt.
Streveler is not exactly a good receiver and putting him in as a QB with Collaros going out wide is not effective either.
He played college ball as a Rec when he couldn't get a QB spot. He has decent hands, and has the ability to block. Not saying he's my #1 choice as a backup SB, but it is intriguing. And adds a layer of trickery... lateral pass deep shot..
I doubt he can walk normally at this point. That would be his immediate goal. Having people take shots at a reconstructed knee seems unrealistic. Like I said, I think his re-signing is for administrative, covering his medical bills. I don't expect to see him compete in the CFL again, as a player.
Quote from: DM83 on February 10, 2025, 05:39:07 PMI doubt he can walk normally at this point. That would be his immediate goal. Having people take shots at a reconstructed knee seems unrealistic. Like I said, I think his re-signing is for administrative, covering his medical bills. I don't expect to see him compete in the CFL again, as a player.
As mentioned, he doesn't have to be on the roster to cover rehab and medical expenses. I guess we'll see if he's able to compete again. His re-signing was still a surprise so it's a wait and see issue right now.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 10, 2025, 05:46:59 PMAs mentioned, he doesn't have to be on the roster to cover rehab and medical expenses. I guess we'll see if he's able to compete again. His re-signing was still a surprise so it's a wait and see issue right now.
It makes sense that Strev. might not be ready for TC, why else would they sign Patterson? Really hard to figure what they're attempting to do with the QB room this year and it's a struggle to have a good feeling about any of it.
Hearing the Bombers have some interest in Global LB Tyron Vrede. Interesting, he played with BO20, Holm, and Mason Bennett, in North Dakota.
Quote from: DM83 on February 10, 2025, 05:39:07 PMI doubt he can walk normally at this point. That would be his immediate goal. Having people take shots at a reconstructed knee seems unrealistic. Like I said, I think his re-signing is for administrative, covering his medical bills. I don't expect to see him compete in the CFL again, as a player.
Strev? He's doing a lot more than walking.
He post videos of him doing jumping and running. I don't know when he'll be cleared for contact but he certainly seems to expect to play again.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 10, 2025, 06:40:33 PMIt makes sense that Strev. might not be ready for TC, why else would they sign Patterson? Really hard to figure what they're attempting to do with the QB room this year and it's a struggle to have a good feeling about any of it.
It may be that they feel he's an upgrade over Dolegala, Wilson or both. There are more questions than answers at this point but I'd expect they will look at some rookie QB's in mini camps.
Nothing is fixed in stone at the moment.
Patterson is definitely an upgrade from Dolegala and Wilson. The fact the Bombers had zero faith in Dolegala when Collaros was hurt in the GC and put Wilson is, makes me question why are we even handing onto this guy??
I don't think Strevy passes the physical so Wilson will be SY Qb, Patterson our #2 Qb and Dolegala get demoted to PR and if he doesn't like that, is released. But training camp will sort all of this out.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 09, 2025, 09:47:10 PMHe was utilized in 2 QB sets. Rather than calling him FB, how about SB? There are only 3 AR QB spots, we could keep Paterson and Wilson on the AR for development, and use Strevy in SY like Litre...
That's an interesting thought...
Wilson might still be allowed to compete as the SY QB. Wilson may already have lost the #2 spot.
So it could be this scenario in TC:
SY competition: Strev, Wilson
#2 competition: Dolegala, Patterson (maybe add Wilson in here, esp if he wins SY)
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 10, 2025, 01:00:03 PMA few things though: The Bombers treat their players the right way. They have the money to help a guy like Streveler and if anyone legitimately deserves marketing money it's him. So the thinking may be, most of his salary this year is going to be sheltered with him on the IR, he's great at fan/sponsorship stuff and while he collects a paycheck, he gets to be around the team during the rehab and will absolutely mentor and help the young QBs.
That's also a great idea and interesting thought. However, that's not very "WFC-like". They wouldn't do it just for that. But it could be an idea if they legitimately think he'll make the AR this season.
There's also the aspect that you really want to spew out the "magic marketing money" (MMM tm) for the top tier players who you need to entice with extra $$ and can't fit it into the SMS (see: BC). Then again, since there's no limit: spew it out to everyone! Yay!
If you have extra money why wouldnt anyone. Pay a few more dollars to retain the best receiver in the league?
Quote from: Pigskin on February 10, 2025, 06:48:04 PMHearing the Bombers have some interest in Global LB Tyron Vrede. Interesting, he played with BO20, Holm, and Mason Bennett, in North Dakota.
The extra global comes at the cost of another Canadian on the AR. Most of the time we only had our global punter on the AR. When injuries to Canadian depth added up we switched to a 2nd global as the only other option.
At times we had 3 globals on the PR. Another two will be drafted in the upcoming draft.
I can't see much point in adding a global from another team at this point.
Quote from: Jesse on February 10, 2025, 08:41:22 PMStrev? He's doing a lot more than walking.
He post videos of him doing jumping and running. I don't know when he'll be cleared for contact but he certainly seems to expect to play again.
Remarkable progress from a pretty devastating injury.
Miles Brown is a turd.