Blue Bombers Forum

So Ed Tait says the OC will be announced in the next few days and that it won't be a surprise.

I was starting to believe that the delay was because we were waiting for Lapo's contract at TSN to finish, but maybe the unsurprising part is that it's Mike Miller because his name was out there already in the news.

I will go with Lapo...and happy if its him.
I feel he really enjoys the game still too much to be stuck at TSN

Quote from: Jesse on February 04, 2025, 12:03:53 AMI was starting to believe that the delay was because we were waiting for Lapo's contract at TSN to finish, but maybe the unsurprising part is that it's Mike Miller because his name was out there already in the news.

I've heard no chatter about Miller becoming OC.  Personally I think that would be crazy.  He was already felt like a fish out of water when thrown into the STC role.  He said as much at the start of the season.  Ya, I'm sure he got better and more comfortable, but to then jump into OC when he's never really had a hand in play calling??  That's crazy talk.

If the whisper is "no surprise" then it has to be Lapo.  I bet you there was a whisper deal this whole time and they were just waiting until it was opportune (or allowed!) to announce it.

If Buck was Lapo's "understudy" a few years back, then who was Buck's understudy the last few years?

I'm a bit perturbed that I have no idea who the OC-in-waiting in-house option is / would have been!

Yah, agreed.
Was it just Buck? And that was it.?
There didn't seem to be any transparency but then there never is with the Bombers?

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 04, 2025, 11:37:05 AMI've heard no chatter about Miller becoming OC.  Personally I think that would be crazy.  He was already felt like a fish out of water when thrown into the STC role.  He said as much at the start of the season.  Ya, I'm sure he got better and more comfortable, but to then jump into OC when he's never really had a hand in play calling??  That's crazy talk.

If the whisper is "no surprise" then it has to be Lapo.  I bet you there was a whisper deal this whole time and they were just waiting until it was opportune (or allowed!) to announce it.

Mike Miller the Argos QB coach who we've interviewed for our OC already.

Mike Miller's bio (Argonauts page) (https://www.argonauts.ca/mike-miller/)

At this point, he's got to be the hire. Not sure what the hold up is specifically though.

Decision announced on 3rd Down. Promoted Hogan internally and hired J. Jackson as QB coach. I'm not unhappy with these decisions.

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 04, 2025, 04:48:11 PMDecision announced on 3rd Down. Promoted Hogan internally and hired J. Jackson as QB coach. I'm not unhappy with these decisions.

Wow the former RB coach jumps to OC ahead of Jackson, that's a strange arrangement.

On paper and at first glace this hire seems like a big stretch.

I like that Hogan is a former QB (albeit CIS level one) but he's very green. Apparently he joined the Als in the TICKETING department in 2015. As far as I can tell he's never called offensive plays professionally and I am not even sure he did so at the CIS level. He was an offensive assist over two seasons when the Als went 10-26 and missed the playoffs two straight years. Prior to him time in Winnipeg as a running backs coach he was running backs and receivers coach for the Carabins.

The resume inspires very little confidence and it seems an unnecessarily large gamble for a veteran offence going into a Grey Cup hosting year but let's hope they have this one right. Feels a bit like giving your teenager keys to the Porsche.

Not overjoyed at the choice, but he's worked in the system and done great with Brady.

Guessing if he was in charge in the GC, we would have seen a different finish to the game ;)

Will be interesting to see if he changes the run/pass ratio substantially.

J. Jackson is a good add, and will give Hogan good support.  And should Hogan falter, he's there to step in.

Not jaw dropping, but understandable.

J. Jackson input will be valuable as mentioned. Although this is a bit of a surprise, an internal promotion provides some insight to the strengths of the roster etc.

That's a big ol' meh from me. Jackson is a good addition, though.

https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/04/bombers-add-jarious-jackson-to-coaching-staff-name-jason-hogan-offensive-coordinator/

Really like bringing Jarious Jackson onto the coaching staff as QB coach. Good experience as an OC with the Elks for 3 seasons and even a brief stint as interim coach.  And I always liked him as a QB in his playing days.

Hogan being an internal hire as the new OC has only 3 seasons as our running backs coach so Jackson will probably be leaned on to help him out. Sounds like a good arrangement.

Promoting a relatively inexperienced guy like Hogan can be looked at as taking the easy path instead of interviewing and bringing in a more experienced coach who has an OC track record (like Jackson).  But I trust O'Shea and he obviously knows Hogan well who has spent his 3 years working with Buck so this likely will not be a huge shift in philosophy at the OC spot.  It's typical O'Shea, being loyal to his guys.  But I think these are good hires.

Weird, not sure why they wouldn't have just given JJ the OC and have Hogan assist. Hogan have very limited experience at the pro level, and Jackson's record as an OC speaks for itself.

Good on Jackson for accepting a junior position when he's fully qualified to be the OC and arguably the next HC on our coaching staff.

i would have thought maybe hire JJ as Qb coach and OC and promote Hogan to RB and Offensive assistant. 

seems like an odd arrangement but maybe JJ didn't want the OC function.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 04, 2025, 04:56:49 PMWow the former RB coach jumps to OC ahead of Jackson, that's a strange arrangement.

Strange indeed.

I just don't get why we didn't give the OC to Jackson as he's clearly the better qualified coach. I don't buy for 1 minute that a RB coach with 3 years experience and no pro experience knows beans about present day defenses. Good on Jackson for accepting the Junior position, he was the HC and OC and now a Qb coach, well, ok, we're fortunate to have him on staff as I have zero confidence in Hogan, and its got to be strange and weird experience for Jackson to be answering to someone so much younger and inexperienced compared to him.

Like the Jackson signing. Hate the Hogan signing.

I reserve judgement for the results on the field.

trust the organization on this one, I think it works out just fine with some growing pains along the way

biggest thing is securing a good OL at this point!

Note to new OC- please do bombs and runs.  Worked in the past LOL.- a steady diet of stretch em and pound em - LETS GO BOMBERS

Jason Hogan , Seriously??? Do we not to win any games???  Does anyone realize we are HOSTING the grey cup?  Is there a joke i am missing ? Kyle Walters said in an interview "that can see spending to the salary cap"  Only to watch some key players leaving? Now an unproven OC when others more qualified and better pedigree are available there has to be a "just Kidding" coming soon??? Please.  What is happening here???

Yeah, colour me underwhelmed.

I guess part of it is none of us really know this guy despite being part of our coaching staff, and having the experience to step in an call our entire offense seems like giving your 16 year old the keys to your Ferrari.

Obviously we will wait and see and maybe it'll be fine but maybe not. I'm surprised we're rolling the dice in the year we're hosting the Grey Cup. Keep in mind that because of that, growing pains are simply not acceptable. It cannot be our gameplan to start like we did last year and hope it comes together and we grab first place and a bye. Hope is not a strategy.

The JJ signing is great though and best believe all that experience is going to have him breathing down Hogan's neck.

I feel like all of this would be avoided if we just switched their roles. MOS loyalty...

Winnipeg Blue Bombers name Jason Hogan Offensive Coordinator, Jarious Jackson Quarterbacks Coach

WINNIPEG, MB – February 4, 2025 –  The Winnipeg Blue Bombers today announce Jason Hogan has been named offensive coordinator with Jarious Jackson added to the staff as the Quarterbacks Coach.

 JASON HOGAN
The 2025 Canadian Football League season will be Hogan's fourth with the club following his previous three years as the team's running backs coach.
Over the past three seasons, Hogan has played an important role in Brady Oliveira's rise to stardom as the Winnipeg product has eclipsed the 1,000-yard rushing mark three times, captured consecutive rushing titles in 2023-24, was named the CFL's Most Outstanding Canadian in 2023 and 2024 and the league's Most Outstanding Player in 2024.

A product of Rosemere, Quebec, Hogan came to the Blue Bombers in 2022 after serving as the offensive coordinator, running backs, wide receiver and quarterbacks coach with the Université de Montréal Carabins.

Hogan spent two years with the Montreal Alouettes prior to his days with the Carabins, beginning as an offensive quality control coach and then serving as a defensive assistant and receivers coach. He also worked for the Alouettes as a youth football program coordinator and served as the offensive coordinator at École secondaire Curé-Antoine-Labelle Loups and at College André-Grasset. Hogan was also a member of the Université de Laval Rouge et Or's Vanier Cup championship team in 2006.

JARIOUS JACKSON
Jackson joins the Blue Bombers after spending the last three seasons with the Edmonton Elks as offensive coordinator and as interim coach after being promoted to the position last July following a management change.

The Elks were 7-6 with Jackson as head coach after beginning the season 0-5 before the change, and Edmonton finished first in points scored (27.6), first in rushing yards per game (131.4) and second in net offence per game (390.3).

Jackson began coaching in the CFL in 2013 with the B.C. Lions and has since worked with Edmonton (2014-15), Saskatchewan (2016-17), B.C. (2018-19), Toronto (2020-21) and then again with the Elks since 2022.

A two-year starting quarterback at the University of Notre Dame, Jackson set single season school records for yards passing, completions and attempts in 1999, his senior season, and was a seventh-round pick of the Denver Broncos in the 2000 NFL Draft.

He spent 13 years as pro with the Broncos (2000), Barcelona Dragons (2001), Broncos (2001-03), B.C. (2004-11) and Toronto (2012) and is a four-time Grey Cup champion - 2006, 2011 and 2012 as a player and 2015 as an assistant coach.

MOS got the promotion to HC after 4 years as STC.

Buck 5 years as RB/QB coach before becoming OC.

Walters - 3 years as STC then got the nod to GM.

Younger got the DC spot with only 5 years as our DB coach.

They DID interview lots of candidates, and decided on Hogan as the best fit for the team going forward. 

Have to wonder about the Jackson hire, though.  Is it a "just in case" hire, or truly a filling of that position.  Did Jackson ask for that spot, knowing that he had missed the OC spot, just to be involved in this team?  Not hating it, just that we have some very veteran coaches in supporting roles. 

Quote from: blue_or_die on February 04, 2025, 07:07:08 PMYeah, colour me underwhelmed.

I guess part of it is none of us really know this guy despite being part of our coaching staff, and having the experience to step in an call our entire offense seems like giving your 16 year old the keys to your Ferrari.

Obviously we will wait and see and maybe it'll be fine but maybe not. I'm surprised we're rolling the dice in the year we're hosting the Grey Cup. Keep in mind that because of that, growing pains are simply not acceptable. It cannot be our gameplan to start like we did last year and hope it comes together and we grab first place and a bye. Hope is not a strategy.

The JJ signing is great though and best believe all that experience is going to have him breathing down Hogan's neck.

I feel like all of this would be avoided if we just switched their roles. MOS loyalty...

It sure feels like the Bombers are loping along at the back of the field, surprise, surprise when unwanted scraps are left by the time they make important coaching decisions. They lost Buck months ago and decided to go on holiday and let the task of replacing him slide.  Maybe complacency and over-confidence has set in, where's the competitive fire?

Quote from: BombZ on February 04, 2025, 06:42:55 PMJason Hogan , Seriously??? Do we not to win any games???  Does anyone realize we are HOSTING the grey cup?  Is there a joke i am missing ? Kyle Walters said in an interview "that can see spending to the salary cap"  Only to watch some key players leaving? Now an unproven OC when others more qualified and better pedigree are available there has to be a "just Kidding" coming soon??? Please.  What is happening here???

Maybe log off and go take your meds.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 04, 2025, 07:32:34 PMIt sure feels like the Bombers are loping along at the back of the field, surprise, surprise when unwanted scraps are left by the time they make important coaching decisions. They lost Buck months ago and decided to go on holiday and let the task of replacing him slide.  Maybe complacency and over-confidence has set in, where's the competitive fire?

I really think you are off base here.  Buck was promoted from within with little experience, and 3 seasons later, you're lamenting his loss?

The team interviewed many prospects and no doubt discussed many more.  No doubt that there are more qualified or more proven candidates, but do they fit with MOS, our team structure or $SMS? 

If he fails, have at it, rake the management team over the coals.  Until then, lets give the guy that helped BO20 be the dominant player he is a chance to prove himself.

As long as they rely on the similar and often successful balanced attack we've seen the last several seasons, there shouldn't be much cause for concern here. Hogan's a rookie but he's learned from some pretty talented coaches thus far.

Jackson's addition to the offense should help, too.

At first glance, this seems like a terrible hire.  Given the teams massive struggles on offense most of the last season (and in the Grey Cup AGAIN),  giving the reins to an outside voice would have been preferable...a fresh perspective.  This hire seems like something that would lead to nothing more than an average offense for the 2025 season which may not be good enough to make it to the division finals let alone the Grey Cup.

I hope Jackson has a good amount of influence on the new OC's play-calling, assuming his previous work as OC is considered good of course.  I would have preferred Mike Miller from Toronto as the new OC.  Like I said, a fresh perspective from an experienced outsider.

Why on earth would Tait say this hire would not be a surprise?  I don't anyone expected Hogan.

Never looked at Mike Miller's resume, until now.  Man, he has a LOT of miles on him.  2 years as Arizona's OC (8-8, 5-11), coached in Europe, NFL and CFL.

Have to wonder why they passed on him, but there seems to be a lot of movement in his history and that is always disconcerting for a potential employer.

I used to joke that I'd been fired 14 times, which show's I'm no quitter...

Quote from: theaardvark on February 04, 2025, 07:25:14 PMMOS got the promotion to HC after 4 years as STC.

Buck 5 years as RB/QB coach before becoming OC.

Walters - 3 years as STC then got the nod to GM.

Younger got the DC spot with only 5 years as our DB coach.

They DID interview lots of candidates, and decided on Hogan as the best fit for the team going forward. 

Have to wonder about the Jackson hire, though.  Is it a "just in case" hire, or truly a filling of that position.  Did Jackson ask for that spot, knowing that he had missed the OC spot, just to be involved in this team?  Not hating it, just that we have some very veteran coaches in supporting roles. 

Not sure you're making great comparisons here. Hogan has been a nameless assistant for 3 years and in your comparisons, assistants have 5 years in that role and made a name for themselves during that time. I think you don't need to be a coordinator long before you can make the jump up to HC so that's apples and oranges. And in Walters' case, although he was STC he was an assistant GM and lead Canadian scouting very successfully for years.

You also say we "DID interview lots of candidates". You could be right about this, but do we know that? Legit question. I haven't been paying as close attention as normal so maybe I missed all this news about our extensive OC search.

Part of me wants to give this brass the benefit of the doubt given the success they've had, the other part is questioning it given the 3 cups in a row we lost. I just hope they know what they're doing with this one.

Buck Pierce also played quarterback at a high level in the CFL prior to starting his coaching career. Hogan was a CIS quarterback who last played in 2006 and joined the Als in 2015 as a ticketing guy. Yes, he's been around the game but the resume is not very strong and that's putting it mildly.

I do think we sort of need to trust the organization as they are the only ones who can really evaluate the guy. I will say if it doesn't work it the move will be easy to criticize because on paper it's very hard to believe the best candidate for the job was a guy who outside of being our running backs coach was a CIS positional coach with a low profile and what seems like zero play calling experience in any of his role up to now.

I am wondering what the delay was? If Hogan was the pick this could have been announced Dec 5, two months ago. 

Wish I knew what the heck else was going on.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 04, 2025, 07:58:58 PMI really think you are off base here.  Buck was promoted from within with little experience, and 3 seasons later, you're lamenting his loss?

The team interviewed many prospects and no doubt discussed many more.  No doubt that there are more qualified or more proven candidates, but do they fit with MOS, our team structure or $SMS? 

If he fails, have at it, rake the management team over the coals.  Until then, lets give the guy that helped BO20 be the dominant player he is a chance to prove himself.

Only OC prospect I heard them mention was Jordan Maksymic and he was eager to choose the sad sack Elks over the Bomber OC job, other than that nothing.  Meanwhile a game of musical chairs was happening across the CFL while other teams scrambled to acquire the best coaching prospects, the Bombers snoozed through the entire event. If Buck thought Hogan was the man, he likely would have taken him to BC with him instead of Kevin Bourgain.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 04, 2025, 10:10:13 PMOnly OC prospect I heard them mention was Jordan Maksymic and he was eager to choose the sad sack Elks over the Bomber OC job, other than that nothing.  Meanwhile a game of musical chairs was happening across the CFL while other teams scrambled to acquire the best coaching prospects, the Bombers snoozed through the entire event. If Buck thought Hogan was the man, he likely would have taken him to BC with him instead of Kevin Bourgain.

They asked permission about Miller in TO, for sure, and they had to have talked to Jackson about the OC for him to be hired as QB coach.  I can't recall the other names, but they did a search, for sure, before handing Hogan the job.

Who knows why they left it so long, maybe it was a hard decision to choose someone as green as Hogan.  But they know him, and his work, and he's watched Buck do the X's and O's for a while.

Our management group seems to find the diamonds in the rough and polish them to the point that they get stolen.  Lets hope that is the case here, again.

I just don't get why they didn't give the OC job to Jackson outright and have Hogan apprentice under him. Sorry, anyone associated with our offensive game planning the last 3 years gets a demerit in my books, especially last Grey Cup's fiasco. But sure, give the OC job to your Qb coach, who was obviously in on letting Zach continue to throw without the use of his right arm, seems totally logical to me, NOT!!!!

This one is a head scratcher and really, as long as Jackson has input into our game planning I don't care. He had very decent stats as OC in Edmonton despite having an inferior offense, his offense at least produced, it was his defense that stunk.

Quote from: ModAdmin on February 04, 2025, 07:18:36 PMWinnipeg Blue Bombers name Jason Hogan Offensive Coordinator, Jarious Jackson Quarterbacks Coach


WINNIPEG, MB – February 4, 2025 –  The Winnipeg Blue Bombers today announce Jason Hogan has been named offensive coordinator with Jarious Jackson added to the staff as the Quarterbacks Coach.

 JASON HOGAN
The 2025 Canadian Football League season will be Hogan's fourth with the club following his previous three years as the team's running backs coach.
Over the past three seasons, Hogan has played an important role in Brady Oliveira's rise to stardom as the Winnipeg product has eclipsed the 1,000-yard rushing mark three times, captured consecutive rushing titles in 2023-24, was named the CFL's Most Outstanding Canadian in 2023 and 2024 and the league's Most Outstanding Player in 2024.
A product of Rosemere, Quebec, Hogan came to the Blue Bombers in 2022 after serving as the offensive coordinator, running backs, wide receiver and quarterbacks coach with the Université de Montréal Carabins.

Hogan spent two years with the Montreal Alouettes prior to his days with the Carabins, beginning as an offensive quality control coach and then serving as a defensive assistant and receivers coach. He also worked for the Alouettes as a youth football program coordinator and served as the offensive coordinator at École secondaire Curé-Antoine-Labelle Loups and at College André-Grasset. Hogan was also a member of the Université de Laval Rouge et Or's Vanier Cup championship team in 2006.

JARIOUS JACKSON
Jackson joins the Blue Bombers after spending the last three seasons with the Edmonton Elks as offensive coordinator and as interim coach after being promoted to the position last July following a management change.
The Elks were 7-6 with Jackson as head coach after beginning the season 0-5 before the change, and Edmonton finished first in points scored (27.6), first in rushing yards per game (131.4) and second in net offence per game (390.3).
Jackson began coaching in the CFL in 2013 with the B.C. Lions and has since worked with Edmonton (2014-15), Saskatchewan (2016-17), B.C. (2018-19), Toronto (2020-21) and then again with the Elks since 2022.

A two-year starting quarterback at the University of Notre Dame, Jackson set single season school records for yards passing, completions and attempts in 1999, his senior season, and was a seventh-round pick of the Denver Broncos in the 2000 NFL Draft.

He spent 13 years as pro with the Broncos (2000), Barcelona Dragons (2001), Broncos (2001-03), B.C. (2004-11) and Toronto (2012) and is a four-time Grey Cup champion - 2006, 2011 and 2012 as a player and 2015 as an assistant coach.

Great summary of coaching credentials of both Hogan and Jackson, but after reading it, it is dead obvious that Jackson should be our OC!! First in points scored per game—-boy could have used that in the grey cup, first in rushing yards despite us having BO and second in net offense per game, yep, give the OC position to the 3 yr Qb coach, who really hasn't done anything. Thank ****** we have Jackson on staff and he's willing to serve in a support position

Quote from: dd on February 04, 2025, 10:21:13 PMI just don't get why they didn't give the OC job to Jackson outright and have Hogan apprentice under him. Sorry, anyone associated with our offensive game planning the last 3 years gets a demerit in my books, especially last Grey Cup's fiasco. But sure, give the OC job to your Qb coach, who was obviously in on letting Zach continue to throw without the use of his right arm, seems totally logical to me, NOT!!!!

This one is a head scratcher and really, as long as Jackson has input into our game planning I don't care. He had very decent stats as OC in Edmonton despite having an inferior offense, his offense at least produced, it was his defense that stunk.

Hogan was the RB coach, you know, the guy who worked with Brady to become the best RB in the league.  Buck was the QB coach and OC that crapped the bed.  And now he's a Head Coach...

Quote from: dd on February 04, 2025, 10:41:33 PMGreat summary of coaching credentials of both Hogan and Jackson, but after reading it, it is dead obvious that Jackson should be our OC!! First in points scored per game—-boy could have used that in the grey cup, first in rushing yards despite us having BO and second in net offense per game, yep, give the OC position to the 3 yr Qb coach, who really hasn't done anything. Thank ****** we have Jackson on staff and he's willing to serve in a support position

I think this may be like the same situation last year with Younger/Hall - give the new guy a chance and a short leash, because there's a vet in the house if he can't get it done.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 04, 2025, 10:16:34 PMThey asked permission about Miller in TO, for sure, and they had to have talked to Jackson about the OC for him to be hired as QB coach.  I can't recall the other names, but they did a search, for sure, before handing Hogan the job.

Who knows why they left it so long, maybe it was a hard decision to choose someone as green as Hogan.  But they know him, and his work, and he's watched Buck do the X's and O's for a while.

Our management group seems to find the diamonds in the rough and polish them to the point that they get stolen.  Lets hope that is the case here, again.

Again...are you sure?

Quote from: theaardvark on February 04, 2025, 10:16:34 PMThey asked permission about Miller in TO, for sure, and they had to have talked to Jackson about the OC for him to be hired as QB coach.  I can't recall the other names, but they did a search, for sure, before handing Hogan the job.

Who knows why they left it so long, maybe it was a hard decision to choose someone as green as Hogan.  But they know him, and his work, and he's watched Buck do the X's and O's for a while.

Our management group seems to find the diamonds in the rough and polish them to the point that they get stolen.  Lets hope that is the case here, again.

It concerns me he's watched Buck do the X's and O's as I don't think Buck knows the difference between and X and an O!!

Quote from: VictorRomano on February 04, 2025, 11:20:35 PMI think this may be like the same situation last year with Younger/Hall - give the new guy a chance and a short leash, because there's a vet in the house if he can't get it done.

I just don't get why unproven rookies get the nod over proven vets, it's actuslly an insult to Jackson really. He had the #1 offensive stats last year yet we give it to a rookie positional coach. Not a rational decision at all and this took months to unroll?!?

Maybe the Coaching Cap played a part in this decision, surely they would spend right to the limit among the coaches they employ. Depends how much they had to pay Younger to keep him on board without insulting Richie with a huge pay cut. Could be keeping Richie Hall on staff at a higher salary than most assistant DC's receive limit what they could offer Jackson?  Must be a fair step down from OC to QB coach, commensurate with hours put into the job.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 04, 2025, 07:58:58 PMI really think you are off base here.  Buck was promoted from within with little experience, and 3 seasons later, you're lamenting his loss?

The team interviewed many prospects and no doubt discussed many more.  No doubt that there are more qualified or more proven candidates, but do they fit with MOS, our team structure or $SMS? 

If he fails, have at it, rake the management team over the coals.  Until then, lets give the guy that helped BO20 be the dominant player he is a chance to prove himself.

Buck had a long career as a CFL QB and spent 6 years, starting as a RB coach and then working up to QB coach before getting the promotion.

You're comparing that to someone who never played professionally and has 3 years of experience solely as a RB coach?

And I only read one report of us asking to interview anyone: Mike Miller.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 04, 2025, 05:02:22 PMThe resume inspires very little confidence and it seems an unnecessarily large gamble for a veteran offence going into a Grey Cup hosting year but let's hope they have this one right. Feels a bit like giving your teenager keys to the Porsche.

I like the choice.  I was wondering who the "next man up" was and why we weren't going internally, since we do it so often.

I don't care if he's not "experienced" like all the other choices... I only care if he's a play calling genius.  Playing QB or whatever doesn't mean you can design and call the right plays.  Hogan might be the next big thing!

To be chosen he must be well respected and he must be really smart.

I think this is great, and far better than just doing the tired trope of going with the old retread (McAdoo, Jarius...).  (Though I would have been fine with retread Lapo!)

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 04, 2025, 07:32:34 PMIt sure feels like the Bombers are loping along at the back of the field, surprise, surprise when unwanted scraps are left by the time they make important coaching decisions. They lost Buck months ago and decided to go on holiday and let the task of replacing him slide.

I bet the decision was made ages ago.  Or maybe they were trying to get some big name (Lapo) and held out until the last minute when they were for sure unavailable.

Nothing wrong with going with your 2nd choice.

Hiring in-house has the huge advantage of continuity, which is so very key in this league.  If we can keep the OL continuity too, then we should start winning week 1 instead of week 7.

Quote from: blueandgoldguy on February 04, 2025, 08:25:33 PMWhy on earth would Tait say this hire would not be a surprise?  I don't anyone expected Hogan.

Ya, that was a strange quote.  The Hogan choice surprises every fan in Canada!  The only "non-surprise" is that WFC does like to promote internally, and that's what we did in the end.

Quote from: dd on February 04, 2025, 10:21:13 PMI just don't get why they didn't give the OC job to Jackson outright and have Hogan apprentice under him. Sorry, anyone associated with our offensive game planning the last 3 years gets a demerit in my books, especially last Grey Cup's fiasco. But sure, give the OC job to your Qb coach, who was obviously in on letting Zach continue to throw without the use of his right arm, seems totally logical to me, NOT!!!!

Ya, winning the division and getting to the cup year after year sure sucks eh!  :P

Jarius inspires nothing in me.  He's retread of retreads and was lost on the sidelines in EDM, and wasn't great as OC in the booth (on any team).  There's a reason he's bounced through a ton of teams.  Could be a major case of Peter Principle.

That said, Jarius does know QBs and QBing and I think he'll be a great QB coach.  If he's also our "emergency backup OC" should Hogan poop the bed, then bonus.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 05, 2025, 12:20:30 AMMaybe the Coaching Cap played a part in this decision, surely they would spend right to the limit among the coaches they employ. Depends how much they had to pay Younger to keep him on board without insulting Richie with a huge pay cut. Could be keeping Richie Hall on staff at a higher salary than most assistant DC's receive limit what they could offer Jackson?  Must be a fair step down from OC to QB coach, commensurate with hours put into the job.

Ding ding ding.  I like it when people see the hidden subtext.

The Younger move last year was to keep MOS/KW/WM well-paid (read: nice pay bumps).  Hogan is the same thing.  A rookie OC can be paid less than half what a "real" OC will cost.  This lets the Mafia Three (and Younger now) get more pay bumps.

It's the same as cutting some all-star vet players and replacing them with ELCs so you have enough to retain the elite superstars, just on the coach's side.

Eventually something's gotta give, though.  Once you start this paradigm, you gotta keep the churn going every few years... unless the CFL ditches the coach cap or increases it substantially, that is.

I think it's smart, and so far has been very successful.

The negativity posted on here about the OC by some is so over the top.  Props to those that can see the forest through the trees.

How about we let the two coaches don't their jobs for at least half a season before we push the panic button.

There is nothing in his resume to suggest that he's ready for an OC job, let alone be a "play calling genius".

Quote from: TBURGESS on February 05, 2025, 03:28:09 PMThere is nothing in his resume to suggest that he's ready for an OC job, let alone be a "play calling genius".

Everyone starts somewhere before a resume in created. Many OC's were QB's which is good but that doesn't always equate to being a good OC. We've seen very good football players as OC's, DC's and HC's that failed.

Having J. Jackson on board is a bit of a safety net. We'll see how this works out.

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 05, 2025, 03:32:39 PMEveryone starts somewhere before a resume in created. Many OC's were QB's which is good but that doesn't always equate to being a good OC. We've seen very good football players as OC's, DV's and HC's that failed.

Having J. Jackson on board is a bit of a safety net. We'll see how this works out.

I see the key is to make sure Zach, the OC and QB coach all on the same page to use the players we have to the best of their abilities.  A few new pieces but mostly the same.  I see continuity with this move and some growing pains but I believe it will work out just fine.  Biggest thing for me is a strong OL and good running game.  Rest can work itself out on those two pillar of strength.  I am confident in the running game, not sure about the OL (yet).  Having a consistent deep ball is key to our offense I believe, which might take a 1/3 of the season to figure out.

We fans really have absolutely no idea whether Hogan will be in way over his head, or whether he is a savant-OC-in-Waiting. I think that we'll know halfway through the 2025 season whether he is one, the other, or just meh.

O'Shea isn't stupid, and he has seemed to have a really good idea of what kind of person would fit into each role on our staff. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and completely reserve judgement on this decision.

One possibility - Jarious Jackson could be the safety net. If Hogan struggles well into the season, perhaps Jarious takes over.

A similar situation took place with Ben Johnson with the Detroit Lions in 2022. A relative nobody who got promoted out of the blue (outwardly to fans, but no-brainer to those within the coaching staff) who turned out to be one of the best OCs in the NFL.

I'd be MORE willing to give Hogan the benefit of the doubt if someone could tell me why it took us 2 months to realize his genius, and also why Buck didn't take him to BC.  It just seems to me MOS being MOS. I am just glad Jackson was willing to come in a lesser capacity.

I remember thinking promoting Buck was going to end up badly and I was completely wrong.

Quote from: peg_city on February 05, 2025, 03:58:48 PMI remember thinking promoting Buck was going to end up badly and I was completely wrong.

It just went badly in three straight Grey Cup games.

Quote from: TBURGESS on February 05, 2025, 03:28:09 PMThere is nothing in his resume to suggest that he's ready for an OC job, let alone be a "play calling genius".

Remember in 2023 when Craig Dickenson took a chance and elevated QB Coach Kelly Jeffrey to OC??? One season later, they cleaned house.

Quote from: peg_city on February 05, 2025, 03:58:48 PMI remember thinking promoting Buck was going to end up badly and I was completely wrong.

I really think we are 5 time GC champs if Lapo had stuck here instead of Buck.  I don't put 100% of the blame on Buck, MOS takes some of the blame for trusting Buck...

Quote from: theaardvark on February 05, 2025, 04:07:58 PMI really think we are 5 time GC champs if Lapo had stuck here instead of Buck.  I don't put 100% of the blame on Buck, MOS takes some of the blame for trusting Buck...

memory is a fickle thing, when Lapo was here lots were complaining about his conservative offence. It may have been a product of who his personnel were, and I think he's grown since then. But I doubt the greycup outcomes would be different.(esp ly the argos d was that dominant)

Quote from: pdirks67 on February 05, 2025, 03:50:10 PMWe fans really have absolutely no idea whether Hogan will be in way over his head, or whether he is a savant-OC-in-Waiting. I think that we'll know halfway through the 2025 season whether he is one, the other, or just meh.

O'Shea isn't stupid, and he has seemed to have a really good idea of what kind of person would fit into each role on our staff. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and completely reserve judgement on this decision.

One possibility - Jarious Jackson could be the safety net. If Hogan struggles well into the season, perhaps Jarious takes over.

A similar situation took place with Ben Johnson with the Detroit Lions in 2022. A relative nobody who got promoted out of the blue (outwardly to fans, but no-brainer to those within the coaching staff) who turned out to be one of the best OCs in the NFL.

Even if he's good, I'm struggling to understand why we felt the need to fast track him through the ranks so quickly.

He has zero pro playing experience. Zero coordinator or HC experience at lower levels. He only has 3 years experience at the lowest possible assistant coach level.

If we felt he needed a raise, we could have made him assistant OC in charge of RBs and WRs or something to have some experience with what his new duties will eventually be.

He has skipped a few steps so this is questionable until proven otherwise.

Quote from: Jesse on February 05, 2025, 06:00:51 PMEven if he's good, I'm struggling to understand why we felt the need to fast track him through the ranks so quickly.

He has zero pro playing experience. Zero coordinator or HC experience at lower levels. He only has 3 years experience at the lowest possible assistant coach level.

If we felt he needed a raise, we could have made him assistant OC in charge of RBs and WRs or something to have some experience with what his new duties will eventually be.

He has skipped a few steps so this is questionable until proven otherwise.

Disagree with most of what you have said, I trust the organization on this one.  My expectation is a slow start with a few bumps along the way and I believe. This will work out just fine imo.  There is a power in continuity.

Quote from: Blueforlife on February 05, 2025, 06:23:21 PMDisagree with most of what you have said, I trust the organization on this one.  My expectation is a slow start with a few bumps along the way and I believe. This will work out just fine imo.  There is a power in continuity.

You disagree that he has zero professional playing experience?

Or that he has never been an OC or HC at any level?

Or that his only experience is as an RB coach?

Or that he's jumped steps that coaches normally take before getting an OC position?

Because all of those things are true.

Quote from: Blueforlife on February 05, 2025, 06:23:21 PMDisagree with most of what you have said, I trust the organization on this one.  My expectation is a slow start with a few bumps along the way and I believe. This will work out just fine imo.  There is a power in continuity.

You disagree with facts? Those weren't opinions...

And once again, if by a few bumps you're talking about the horrible start we were lucky to survive last year, that's not acceptable. This is a home Grey Cup year (which we get once a decade, and coinciding when we have a great team). This is a time to go all in, not a time to take risks and make odd decisions.

Waiting until Labour Day to see if rolling the dice worked out is completely unacceptable.

Quote from: blue_or_die on February 05, 2025, 06:29:13 PMYou disagree with facts? Those weren't opinions...

And once again, if by a few bumps you're talking about the horrible start we were lucky to survive last year, that's not acceptable. This is a home Grey Cup year (which we get once a decade, and coinciding when we have a great team). This is a time to go all in, not a time to take risks and make odd decisions.

Waiting until Labour Day to see if rolling the dice worked out is completely unacceptable.

The big question, is this the year another team finally steps up and steals the Bombers Western crown? I'm guessing the odds are 50/50, which would still make the Bombers the favourite.

Quote from: Jesse on February 05, 2025, 06:27:12 PMYou disagree that he has zero professional playing experience? - obviously not, come on man

Or that he has never been an OC or HC at any level? obviously not, not sure why that really matters as he knows our system, I don't see why him not being a HC has anything to do with it

Or that his only experience is as an RB coach?  obviously not, but he has been in our system for a enough time to know more than you suggest

Or that he's jumped steps that coaches normally take before getting an OC position? This is a stretch, there is no set recipe for how to promote a coach, another huge stretch here bud

Because all of those things are true. - his experience is all accurate, you take on it has a bias to the negative imo

Quote from: blue_or_die on February 05, 2025, 06:29:13 PMYou disagree with facts? Those weren't opinions...

And once again, if by a few bumps you're talking about the horrible start we were lucky to survive last year, that's not acceptable. This is a home Grey Cup year (which we get once a decade, and coinciding when we have a great team). This is a time to go all in, not a time to take risks and make odd decisions.

Waiting until Labour Day to see if rolling the dice worked out is completely unacceptable.

See comments above on Jesse's post.  I disagree with Jesse's take on the promotion of the OC.  He is overstating the negative regarding this situation imo.  Yes he has stated facts about his history.  I am obviously not arguing against that, come on guys splitting hairs there.  Jesse has stated that we could have promoted him to an assistant RB or WR coach which I 100% disagree with.  He stated that he skipped a step, which I 100% disagree with.  We have promoted from within a person that the management has trust in that can do the job.  We have brought in a decent QB coach with lots of playing experience.  Non issue handled internally.  Some don't like this move I do.  Let's see how it works out before we are too critical of it.  Give the guy a chance.  He is surrounded by a good team and management.  I am very hopeful it works out.  I am not worried at all about our OC's lack of playing experience and don't think his previous coaching experience will play much a factor in his success this season. 

In terms of a slow start, I'm expecting it but not as bad as last year.  Lots of change.  If we secure a good OL, I'm a lot less worried.  Also need to fill a few big holes on D.  Change will bring some uncertainty on the players end.  A wee bit early to assess how we will start as we have a lot of player to sign yet and I can only bet a few studs come out of camp (hoping).

Coaching is fairly stable and not too worried there.

Let's leave it here guys, we are worlds apart on our take here.  That's ok.  Good debate but lets see how it shakes out 1st.

Having a inexperienced coach and a mentor for defense worked well last year, don't see why that can't again on O.  A little bit different situation there to be sure but has a similar feel imo.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 05, 2025, 06:59:54 PMThe big question, is this the year another team finally steps up and steals the Bombers Western crown? I'm guessing the odds are 50/50, which would still make the Bombers the favourite.

We're all obviously hoping that's not the case for this year given the circumstance, although it's impossible to just go to the Grey Cup every single year forever.

Realistically, what I want is for us to do whatever it takes to win this year and then the core can retire or move on. If we go to the Grey Cup 6 years in a row and win 3, one with me in attendance in my season ticket seat, I can simply die happy. I'll happily go to the stadium in 2026 and watch them lose with a smile on my face if that's the case. I've been waiting my whole fandom for us to be good like we are right now but understand that nothing lasts forever.

Maybe what Ed Tait meant when he said it would not be a surprise, is that this is the way this team does things.

Ie. they (O'Shea) know this person, like him. He fits in.  They are sure  he can do the job. Are not worried about the learning curve. Maybe going from special teams to successful head  coach colours the view.

That's route ending in success happened only once in the recent CFL that I know of.

Guess we'll see.

I would rather have Jarious running it... last year alone.... his results in a bad situation showed his worth.

Quote from: markf on February 05, 2025, 07:07:59 PMMaybe what Ed Tait meant when he said it would not be a surprise, is that this is the way this team does things.

Ie. they (O'Shea) know this person, like him. He fits in.  They are sure  he can do the job. Are not worried about the learning curve. Maybe going from special teams to successful head  coach colours the view.

That's route ending in success happened once in the recent CFL that I know of.

Guess we'll see.

I would rather have Jarious running it... last year alone.... his results in a bad situation showed his worth.

Have to think Jarious will have a lot of input on the running of the offence.  Also have to think that Hogan would welcome that support and input.

Quote from: ModAdmin on February 05, 2025, 07:17:07 PMHave to think Jarious will have a lot of input on the running of the offence.  Also have to think that Hogan would welcome that support and input.

A great combo imo

Quote from: blue_or_die on February 05, 2025, 06:29:13 PMYou disagree with facts? Those weren't opinions...

And once again, if by a few bumps you're talking about the horrible start we were lucky to survive last year, that's not acceptable. This is a home Grey Cup year (which we get once a decade, and coinciding when we have a great team). This is a time to go all in, not a time to take risks and make odd decisions.

Waiting until Labour Day to see if rolling the dice worked out is completely unacceptable.

The start to last year, and the GC fiascos were orchestrated by a guy with a lot more experience, both as a player and a coach.

So I'm not sure how having those credentials are a guarantee of success.

Again, MOS has to live or die with Hogan's results, its his butt on the line here.  If he didn't think Hogan had the chops to do the job, Jackson or someone else gets the gig.

Younger/Hall
Hogan/Jackson

He made the move to Younger over Hall, and we had a pretty solid year on D.

No reason to doubt.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 05, 2025, 07:33:14 PMThe start to last year, and the GC fiascos were orchestrated by a guy with a lot more experience, both as a player and a coach.

So I'm not sure how having those credentials are a guarantee of success.

Again, MOS has to live or die with Hogan's results, its his butt on the line here.  If he didn't think Hogan had the chops to do the job, Jackson or someone else gets the gig.

Younger/Hall
Hogan/Jackson

He made the move to Younger over Hall, and we had a pretty solid year on D.

No reason to doubt.

We are really seeing eye to eye my friend.  Heavy agree all.  Love it.  Facts are presented above imo.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 05, 2025, 07:33:14 PMThe start to last year, and the GC fiascos were orchestrated by a guy with a lot more experience, both as a player and a coach.

So I'm not sure how having those credentials are a guarantee of success.

Again, MOS has to live or die with Hogan's results, its his butt on the line here.  If he didn't think Hogan had the chops to do the job, Jackson or someone else gets the gig.

Younger/Hall
Hogan/Jackson

He made the move to Younger over Hall, and we had a pretty solid year on D.

No reason to doubt.

This isn't about guarantees, it's about risk management.

Nobody complained about the Younger promotion because we had confidence he was the heir apparent. We do not have any such background or assurance.

As many have stated here already, the simple, non-wait and see solution would have just been to have Jarious as OC and have Hogan apprentice and gain experience gameplanning/calling under him as an asst OC.

If this was a 'hoping to make the playoffs' kinda year, then I'd be much more OK trying an untested guy. 

This is a GC in Winnipeg year with a team that's been there 5 years straight. We don't need to add this kind of risk. 

Jackson's in a tough spot. He's getting paid to be a QB coach, which he will be no problem. But then he's 'expected' to have input and help our green OC, who will need it, yet he's being paid a position coaches salary, not an assistant OC salary, not an OC/HC salary, but a QB coach salary. That's totally unfair to him, as it is unfair to pay the previous RB coach an OC salary with zero experience in putting together game plans at the pro level.

I don't care what anyone says, this decision makes zero sense. Also this situation is not like the Younger situation. Younger played pro ball, played with Oshea, so Oshea knew his mindset and understanding of the game coming into that decision. Hogan has zero pro experience, zero OC experience.

I wonder what everyone would be saying if our safety blanket/Jackson wasn't on staff?!?!

Quote from: dd on February 05, 2025, 10:16:41 PMJackson's in a tough spot. He's getting paid to be a QB coach, which he will be no problem. But then he's 'expected' to have input and help our green OC, who will need it, yet he's being paid a position coaches salary, not an assistant OC salary, not an OC/HC salary, but a QB coach salary. That's totally unfair to him, as it is unfair to pay the previous RB coach an OC salary with zero experience in putting together game plans at the pro level.


I wonder what everyone would be saying if our safety blanket/Jackson wasn't on staff?!?!

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwCMsTPlvzm4olPjddkAX3_ujEo5lFtzIHzbJO53dQNZO3Z_-wW5sXKYfqIuLTjTtC9iA&usqp=CAU)

Football is a team game on the field and off.  The coaches will gel and figure this out (with bumps along the way).  Not worried a bit.  Now rebuild the OL, find another stud DL and get me a vet DB and I'm happy.  Also need to improve our CDN depth.

Nah sayers might want to read this.

https://www.bluebombers.com/2025/02/05/oshea-pretty-quickly-with-jason-you-recognize-his-energy-you-see-that-hes-got-a-tireless-work-ethic/

Quote from: Pete on February 05, 2025, 04:55:56 PMmemory is a fickle thing, when Lapo was here lots were complaining about his conservative offence. It may have been a product of who his personnel were, and I think he's grown since then. But I doubt the greycup outcomes would be different.(esp ly the argos d was that dominant)

Lapo would have given us a fighting chance.  Buck had zero wrinkles.  Zero new stuff.  Zero anything.  We had 2 in-season losses to TOR to study what they were doing.  Buck wasn't BOLD.

Lapo would have had misdirection and wrinkles galore.  And we all know he would have run the ball a heck of a lot more!!

Our D did enough to let us win that game had our O produced what it should.  Lapo doesn't guarantee we win that game, but it couldn't have hurt.

Quote from: dd on February 05, 2025, 10:16:41 PMyet he's being paid a position coaches salary, not an assistant OC salary, not an OC/HC salary, but a QB coach salary. That's totally unfair to him

What's fair is what a person accepts.  Jarius happily accepted, therefore it's fair.  Who knows what other perks and future promises are on the table...

It's no less fair to Jarius than it was to demote Hall last year!

Quote from: dd on February 05, 2025, 10:16:41 PMI wonder what everyone would be saying if our safety blanket/Jackson wasn't on staff?!?!

I'd be fine with that too.  Lapo is always just sitting there waiting biding his time on TSN.  These HC/OC/DCs do these stints on TSN then always come back into the game...

Quote from: markf on February 05, 2025, 07:07:59 PMIe. they (O'Shea) know this person, like him. He fits in.  They are sure  he can do the job. Are not worried about the learning curve. Maybe going from special teams to successful head  coach colours the view.

Mike Miller was thrown into the STC job last year and did exceptionally well.  You could argue he had zero experience with anything coaching related, and it didn't matter.

Maybe Mafia is really good at spotting latent talent and capability, eh?  They may see in Hogan "the right stuff".  I don't care if he never touched a football in his entire life, I only care about brains and creativity.  And people skills.  That's what we need at OC.

Quote from: blue_or_die on February 05, 2025, 07:05:52 PMWe're all obviously hoping that's not the case for this year given the circumstance, although it's impossible to just go to the Grey Cup every single year forever.

It is?  I don't know.  I'm kinda counting on them making the cup this year too.  And next... Keep up the excellence and wish disorder, discontinuity, and dysentery upon your opponents  :D  :D

(That last one was a joke, for the humor-impaired.  Although you never know with that Regina taco joint!)

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 06, 2025, 08:18:33 AMMike Miller was thrown into the STC job last year and did exceptionally well.  You could argue he had zero experience with anything coaching related, and it didn't matter.

Maybe Mafia is really good at spotting latent talent and capability, eh?  They may see in Hogan "the right stuff".  I don't care if he never touched a football in his entire life, I only care about brains and creativity.  And people skills.  That's what we need at OC.

Special teams is all about desire and heart. Kick and cover left, kick and cover right, pretty basic stuff.

They can say all they want about Hogan's energy and work ethic, it's his brain that I'm worried about. Does he know the in and outs of setting up an offensive game plan, mid game adjustments, etc. I don't think he does. Yes, he does have Jackson to lean on and he's going to need that to get up to speed, I 'm worried about the time to get up to speed, especially in a hosting Grey Cup year and the pressure that comes with that.

Quote from: TBURGESS on February 05, 2025, 09:26:30 PMIf this was a 'hoping to make the playoffs' kinda year, then I'd be much more OK trying an untested guy.

This is a GC in Winnipeg year with a team that's been there 5 years straight. We don't need to add this kind of risk.

Who would you suggest they get then?

Who's the OC from Toronto that kicked our *** in the Grey Cup and two league games?
Die OShea sign an extension or what's his contract status?

Dinwiddie is the OC and HC of Toronto, and yes, he totally schooled us every time he played us. He has a very gifted offensive mind for the game. He gets it and adapts his game plan to his opponent, and can develop schemes and game plans for his #2 Qb that make him look like his #1 Qb.

I don't think we're going to get this with a rookie OC, it will take him time, likely seasons, to get to that level, whereas Jackson is there right now. I m hoping MOS knows what the heck he's doing bringing in a rookie on a Grey Cup hosting year, as expectations are going to be high.

Quote from: dd on February 09, 2025, 02:34:57 AMThey can say all they want about Hogan's energy and work ethic, it's his brain that I'm worried about. Does he know the in and outs of setting up an offensive game plan, mid game adjustments, etc.

Buck called to say "mid game what?".  ;D  ;D  ;D

How many complaints on the forum over the last 3 seasons that Buck never adjusted squat at half time?  Ya, how can Hogan be any worse on that one point?

Quote from: dd on February 09, 2025, 03:55:02 AMI don't think we're going to get this with a rookie OC, it will take him time, likely seasons, to get to that level

Buck got to "that level" in his first season as OC!  Why not Hogan?  Who knows, maybe Buck has been grooming Hogan for this job for a few seasons now, just like Lapo groomed Buck.

Not sure if it's a good idea to have Hogan as OC calling the plays. Seems like Jarius Jackson has had quite a successful few years as OC. Maybe have been better to have Jackson as OC.

Buck was calling his own plays the 3rd quarter when he was QB vsBC in that 2011? Grey cup game in Vanc.  The then OC couldn't call anything that worked.  Buck called his own game, and nearly brought the Bombers back.

Point being.....Buck has and had lots of experience.

So who is the neophyte they brought up to call plays?  That's a joke.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 09, 2025, 05:47:10 AMBuck got to "that level" in his first season as OC!  Why not Hogan?  Who knows, maybe Buck has been grooming Hogan for this job for a few seasons now, just like Lapo groomed Buck.

Buck played the game at a high level and called his own plays at the cfl level, he knew what team ran what defense and then apprenticed as a position coach that's the difference. He had 15 years experience at cfl level vs 3

Nothing changes around here, same group that called for MOS and Hall's head years ago already panicking about our new OC.  Patience pays off.

Quote from: Blueforlife on February 10, 2025, 02:56:47 AMNothing changes around here, same group that called for MOS and Hall's head years ago already panicking about our new OC.  Patience pays off.

Typical. Saying folks with viable concerns are panicking. Bring up MOS, who didn't get us to the playoffs for 2 years & didn't get us to the Grey Cup for 6 years. Is that OK for a new OC? Of course not. 

Quote from: TBURGESS on February 10, 2025, 02:16:57 PMTypical. Saying folks with viable concerns are panicking. Bring up MOS, who didn't get us to the playoffs for 2 years & didn't get us to the Grey Cup for 6 years. Is that OK for a new OC? Of course not.

Its MOS job on the line, and Hogan sis not get promoted without MOS' full endorsement, after considering all other options, including Jackson.

Will Jackson be the OC by the end of the year?  Potentially.  And if Hogan can't handle the job, we have someone that can step in.  In the meantime, we have an experienced guy to handle the development in our QB room.  Someone focused on that one result, coaching up the replacement for Zach.

Quote from: TBURGESS on February 10, 2025, 02:16:57 PMTypical. Saying folks with viable concerns are panicking. Bring up MOS, who didn't get us to the playoffs for 2 years & didn't get us to the Grey Cup for 6 years. Is that OK for a new OC? Of course not.

There is a difference between bringing up concerns and not giving a guy even a chance to try.  Yes some have a strong vein of panic in their posts.  Seen that story before, got the t-shirt.

My track record speaks for itself.  I stay the course.  I got roasted 3 ways from Sunday for supporting MOS, Hall, our defensive core and management in the early days when we struggled a bit.  How did that work out? hmmmmmm, cups and an epic run.  If you are complaining about the success that group has brought us, I really have no words for you.  This stretch for the Bombers will go down as one of the best in it's history imo.  I rarely agree with what you post so maybe lets just leave it at that. 

The same group that called for MOS, Hall's and managements head is now doing the same thing even before the season starts.  Questioning a new OC before we even know what they are like.  Typical.  Patience paid off before and I really hope it will again.  I had good confidence in MOS, strong faith in Hall, never doubted our D for a second and my faith in our new OC and QB coach is moderate.  They will do better as the season goes on with some bumps along the way.  Maybe lets this new offensive coaching staff have a half season before we pull the plug.  Just an idea.  Have faith in the system, it knows what it's doing.  Peavy going out of business so maybe get the feed early LOL.

Legit concerns. Vs. rose colored glasses.
Anybody in their right mind would question any plan A. It's called responsible management. I am sure we have a Plan B. ....."don't we?  I mean clearly Zac is number one, and Wilson? Is # 2. No wait I meant Patterson is #2!  Oh ****!

No wait, on defense we. Don't have an American DT, because the guy wearing his hat crooked is so cool, we are going with a 3 man front, four linebackers. So, every team in the league copies Toronto from last year (3-0) and runs the ball down our throat

Ok, that plan A last year failed.  What was plan B?...more of plan A?
How about you? Ya think we did enough to be a contender to play in the Grey cup?
Are ya blown away from letting the best receiver and best cornerback walk and play for someone else.?   I don't like our roster. Who is gonna help Zac? Who is going to put pressure on the opponents QB?  I mean really.

I am not 'panicked' over the OC decision, just puzzled. Puzzled why a guy who played 4 years at Notre Dame, 4 years with the Denver Broncos, 11 years with the BC Lions, 1 yr with the Toronto Argos, won 4 Grey Cups, who has 11 years of coaching in the CFL, including last year as OC- and lead the league in scoring, rushing and points scored, has 1 year HC experience, was passed over for a guy who played 1 year at CIS level and didn't start any games, and has 3 yrs exp as a RB coach.

It simply doesn't add up to me, but that's ok, the calls been made and we'll see how it plays out, but can't help but think the guy who has 30 years experience playing and coaching at the pro level woulda done better. And spare me the patience BS. MOS has had to fire his OC, DC and ST coach in his first 3 years here, as his first go around was a disaster. Since then, he's had Richie Hall sheparding the D and Lapo laid out the O and Buck followed his crib notes, didn't bring anything new scheme wise and became totally predictable and under performed in the 5 Grey Cups we played in. Thank god our D played lights out and won us 2!!

I am hoping the green guy can lead our offense, I really do, as in a year where we are hosting the Grey Cup, after going to the last 5, expectations are pretty high, and if things go off the rails, I won't be the only one asking why the guy with 30 years experience and 4 GC rings got passed over. And the guy could have a ton of energy, and be a really really hard worker, but if you just don't know the various systems and schemes because you've never been exposed to them in the NFL and CFL, you are really at a disadvantage, because you just don't have the experience, nor the street credibility your QB coach has.

But again, I m not panicked, just puzzled by the huge gap in resumes. I have no doubt JJ will do all he can to help out from his QB coach position, but it won't be as efficient as if he was driving the bus,

 :) well written! Nice work!

he CFL is a prime place for examples of the "Promoted to your level of incompetence", especially in the Front Office $SMS era.

We see lots of coaches bumped up just to fail.  It happens every year.

But with the $SMS on Front Office contracts now, you have to take chances on coaches.

MOS is comfortable with Hogan, and Jackson agreed to the QB coach position, so I'm good with that.

Quote from: dd on February 11, 2025, 01:57:16 AMI am not 'panicked' over the OC decision, just puzzled. Puzzled why a guy who played 4 years at Notre Dame, 4 years with the Denver Broncos, 11 years with the BC Lions, 1 yr with the Toronto Argos, won 4 Grey Cups, who has 11 years of coaching in the CFL, including last year as OC- and lead the league in scoring, rushing and points scored, has 1 year HC experience, was passed over for a guy who played 1 year at CIS level and didn't start any games, and has 3 yrs exp as a RB coach.

It simply doesn't add up to me, but that's ok, the calls been made and we'll see how it plays out, but can't help but think the guy who has 30 years experience playing and coaching at the pro level woulda done better. And spare me the patience BS. MOS has had to fire his OC, DC and ST coach in his first 3 years here, as his first go around was a disaster. Since then, he's had Richie Hall sheparding the D and Lapo laid out the O and Buck followed his crib notes, didn't bring anything new scheme wise and became totally predictable and under performed in the 5 Grey Cups we played in. Thank god our D played lights out and won us 2!!

I am hoping the green guy can lead our offense, I really do, as in a year where we are hosting the Grey Cup, after going to the last 5, expectations are pretty high, and if things go off the rails, I won't be the only one asking why the guy with 30 years experience and 4 GC rings got passed over. And the guy could have a ton of energy, and be a really really hard worker, but if you just don't know the various systems and schemes because you've never been exposed to them in the NFL and CFL, you are really at a disadvantage, because you just don't have the experience, nor the street credibility your QB coach has.

But again, I m not panicked, just puzzled by the huge gap in resumes. I have no doubt JJ will do all he can to help out from his QB coach position, but it won't be as efficient as if he was driving the bus,

I'm surprised how extensive Jackson's resume is, he strikes me as a low key individual that prefers the background to the limelight.  He might fair poorly in job interviews if he doesn't have the enthusiasm to generate enough rah-rah attitude employers naturally prefer.

Quote from: Blueforlife on February 10, 2025, 11:26:39 PMThere is a difference between bringing up concerns and not giving a guy even a chance to try.  Yes some have a strong vein of panic in their posts.  Seen that story before, got the t-shirt.

My track record speaks for itself.  I stay the course.  I got roasted 3 ways from Sunday for supporting MOS, Hall, our defensive core and management in the early days when we struggled a bit.  How did that work out? hmmmmmm, cups and an epic run.  If you are complaining about the success that group has brought us, I really have no words for you.  This stretch for the Bombers will go down as one of the best in it's history imo.  I rarely agree with what you post so maybe lets just leave it at that. 

The same group that called for MOS, Hall's and managements head is now doing the same thing even before the season starts.  Questioning a new OC before we even know what they are like.  Typical.  Patience paid off before and I really hope it will again.  I had good confidence in MOS, strong faith in Hall, never doubted our D for a second and my faith in our new OC and QB coach is moderate.  They will do better as the season goes on with some bumps along the way.  Maybe lets this new offensive coaching staff have a half season before we pull the plug.  Just an idea.  Have faith in the system, it knows what it's doing.  Peavy going out of business so maybe get the feed early LOL.

This is a home grey cup year. We don't have half a season to play around. We just lost three Grey Cups in a row and you have the gall to *erk yourself off like you're some kind of prophet just because you say everything is always fine even when it might not be.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 11, 2025, 05:48:25 PMhe CFL is a prime place for examples of the "Promoted to your level of incompetence", especially in the Front Office $SMS era.

We see lots of coaches bumped up just to fail.  It happens every year.

But with the $SMS on Front Office contracts now, you have to take chances on coaches.

MOS is comfortable with Hogan, and Jackson agreed to the QB coach position, so I'm good with that.

Yep, we see lots of coaches get bumped up just to fail. I just saw one

Quote from: TBURGESS on February 10, 2025, 02:16:57 PMTypical. Saying folks with viable concerns are panicking. Bring up MOS, who didn't get us to the playoffs for 2 years & didn't get us to the Grey Cup for 6 years. Is that OK for a new OC? Of course not.

Same thing last season, got off to a slow start and people were panicking big time. For all the experience over the years he's been with us Pierce was a very frustrating O.C. Coaches and players alike are saying all the right things about Hogan and I'd give him a long leash. I'm happy to have a fresh mind in the position. He might surprise us all.

Quote from: J5V on February 11, 2025, 10:39:49 PMSame thing last season, got off to a slow start and people were panicking big time. For all the experience over the years he's been with us Pierce was a very frustrating O.C. Coaches and players alike are saying all the right things about Hogan and I'd give him a long leash. I'm happy to have a fresh mind in the position. He might surprise us all.

And in the Grey Cup, those things people panicked about came up big time and lost the game. Again.

Quote from: J5V on February 11, 2025, 10:39:49 PMSame thing last season, got off to a slow start and people were panicking big time. For all the experience over the years he's been with us Pierce was a very frustrating O.C. Coaches and players alike are saying all the right things about Hogan and I'd give him a long leash. I'm happy to have a fresh mind in the position. He might surprise us all.

Agree all

Quote from: Jesse on February 11, 2025, 11:13:58 PMAnd in the Grey Cup, those things people panicked about came up big time and lost the game. Again.

We lost because all three phases laid an egg and coaches let us down.  Had a terrible game after an epic run.

Quote from: DM83 on February 11, 2025, 01:35:37 AMLegit concerns. Vs. rose colored glasses.
Anybody in their right mind would question any plan A. It's called responsible management. I am sure we have a Plan B. ....."don't we?  I mean clearly Zac is number one, and Wilson? Is # 2. No wait I meant Patterson is #2!  Oh ****!

No wait, on defense we. Don't have an American DT, because the guy wearing his hat crooked is so cool, we are going with a 3 man front, four linebackers. So, every team in the league copies Toronto from last year (3-0) and runs the ball down our throat

Ok, that plan A last year failed.  What was plan B?...more of plan A?
How about you? Ya think we did enough to be a contender to play in the Grey cup?
Are ya blown away from letting the best receiver and best cornerback walk and play for someone else.?   I don't like our roster. Who is gonna help Zac? Who is going to put pressure on the opponents QB?  I mean really.

We have good QB depth imo.  Willie and some of our new signings and returning faces will get sacks.  3 man front is a league wide trend which most teams used a lot.  Works for us well after a slow start.  Had a top defense last year.  Didn't work in the big show that well.  Can't retain all the talent due to SMS.  Yes big shoes to fill but we are slowly figuring it out.

Several posts were removed from this thread as the discussion became personal focusing on individual posters.

Discussions are bound to include differences of opinion and it is fine to present and debate your point of view on any topic on the forums.

However, when the conversations start dealing with personalities and not the topic, then actions will be taken.  When people start talking about themselves or attempt to make themselves more important and knowledgeable than other members, the topic goes off course.

Discuss every topic but please do not let disagreements get to a point where you start talking about yourself, your feelings or you are being critical of other members for their views.

I have said this a million times, if your feel personally attacked, threatened or insulted, PM one of the moderators or me and it will be dealt with.  DO NOT address your complaints about other members publicly on the forum.

 The Bombers are not stupid. As proven in the Grey Cup, a three man  d line is. 
The benefits are that you also bring another2-3 guys to rush the passer, fill potential run lanes, and pressure the QB.

The team defense featured that earlier in the season,
In the Championship game Younger was destroyed sitting back, giving a back up QB zero to worry about.
In contrast Toronto pressured Zac on every play. You saw the result. It is a recognized fact that when you put pressure on your opponent, errors increase.  Simple!

Passivity is great when you and your partner go out for dinner and share ideas. In football, it's a guaranteed loss. Simple. Don't believe me. Replay the game. How many times was Arbuckle even touched?

The game is won and lost in the trenches. Win the battle get pressure on the Qb and you ll likely win the game. Conversely your O line wins the battle and gives your Qb tons of time to make plays and you likely win the game. I think our line play on both sides of the ball needs upgrading as we lacked pressure on opposing QBs and did not provide enough protection on our own Qb.

3 man front worked most of the year brilliantly, he had a top D.
Failed in the big show.

Eagles dominated Chiefs with zero blitzes.  Properly designed and with enough talent, you can make any alignment work.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 12, 2025, 04:04:51 PMEagles dominated Chiefs with zero blitzes.  Properly designed and with enough talent, you can make any alignment work.

Balance is the key, with the right personnel they can play either system.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 12, 2025, 04:04:51 PMEagles dominated Chiefs with zero blitzes.  Properly designed and with enough talent, you can make any alignment work.

Defensively, the Bombers fared pretty well until things started to unravel in the 4th quarter. They were probably gassed at that point.

The offensive performance was the major letdown in that game, IMO. That IP penalty from the first snap kinda set the tone for the rest of that forgettable game.

You can almost believe you'd only play that bad on purpose. LOL!

Quote from: theaardvark on February 12, 2025, 04:04:51 PMEagles dominated Chiefs with zero blitzes.  Properly designed and with enough talent, you can make any alignment work.

I couldn't believe the push and pressure the Eagles INTERIOR D line got on Mahommes. They weren't just space eaters, they were crazy fast and had a huge push on every snap. And that pressure made even Patrick Mahommes look brutal, as he played a brutal game, and to me, it was all on the pressure. The one pick he threw was behind his reciever, but heck, he was just about to get killed so that pressure lead to the pick. Rushing only 3, and a mediocre 3 , gives the Qb tons of time to make a play. Give anyone time, they'll make a play, look how incredible Arbuckle looked in the Grey Cup, and that was Arbuckle, not VAJ or BLM, it was Arbuckle!!!

On defense you have to be aggressive. And yup, it starts with a defensive front.  Instead of a front seven we had a front three.  Real smart. This def. Cord. Younger, should be re-assigned, and hire Bighill as the DC.

Quote from: dd on February 10, 2025, 02:15:41 AMHe had 15 years experience at cfl level vs 3

And what did Lapo have?  Serious question.

Quote from: DM83 on February 11, 2025, 01:35:37 AMYa think we did enough to be a contender to play in the Grey cup?

100% we deserved to win the West, and thus be in the GC.  We squarely beat SSK most of the season and destroyed them in the WDF.  If it had been BC coming here, we would have destroyed them.

Now, if you want to argue were the 2 best teams in the GC?  Probably not: you'd have to eliminate the divisions to have seen a MTL/TOR GC.

Quote from: blue_or_die on February 11, 2025, 06:53:43 PMThis is a home grey cup year. We don't have half a season to play around. We just lost three Grey Cups in a row and you have the gall to *erk yourself off like you're some kind of prophet just because you say everything is always fine even when it might not be.

As J5V said... you meant like last year?  How many wins in the first 9 games?  None for 6 weeks?

However, I agree with the sentiment, and I would have preferred we go completely mental in FA.  We should be overspending like crazy.

This is our version of SSK in 2013.  No, I don't want to blow up the team's future (like they did), but I do want to win it at home in dominant fashion.  Either way we'll get revenge on someone (TOR or MTL).

Quote from: dd on February 12, 2025, 03:06:50 PMThe game is won and lost in the trenches. Win the battle get pressure on the Qb and you ll likely win the game. Conversely your O line wins the battle and gives your Qb tons of time to make plays and you likely win the game. I think our line play on both sides of the ball needs upgrading as we lacked pressure on opposing QBs and did not provide enough protection on our own Qb.

Not true.  I've rewatched the GC a couple of times and the OL protection of Zach was adequate.  He had time on most snaps.  Our OL massively outperformed in that game, and TOR's (who was better) did what everyone thought they would.

My point being: hoggies weren't the problem or the reason we lost (unless you want to include the run game).  Zach, all RECs and Buck were the main reason we lost.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 12, 2025, 04:18:52 PMThe offensive performance was the major letdown in that game, IMO. That IP penalty from the first snap kinda set the tone for the rest of that forgettable game.

Ya, if (when) we're back in the GC this season, someone's got to smack Tui upside the head and make sure that doesn't happen again!  (Or just keep whispering the count to him pre-snap! ...and then smack him upside the head.)

Games are often defined by the first snap or series.  Same thing just happened to KC.

 Games are not decided on the first play of a game.

Quote from: DM83 on February 13, 2025, 05:59:13 PMGames are not decided on the first play of a game.

When it comes to GCs, tones are set on the first few touches.  You see who is going to be more physical.  You see who is dialed in.  You see who prepared.

Look at basically every GC we played in recently.

'19 Alexander picks off Evans on his first pass as the DL is getting pressure.  Ya, that's the summary of the whole game.

'22 or '23?  Schoen doesn't lay out for a home run pass down the middle early on.  A must-catch in a must-win.  O didn't do much the rest of the game.

'24 Tui IP on 1st play.  Kenny heels out on big "let's get rolling" play on 1st or 2nd series.  Ya, that was our M.O. for 3.5 Q's.

KC in the recent superbowl.  Their first series was every series.  (Can we sign that Eagles DL??)

(Fill in the other years yourself, but it's a real thing.)

Ya know, every season is different.
If ya play finesse football, you probably lose.
We have a super prototypical back, in Brady. Runs through, over and around most people. I would bring in another nattering ram  to give him a break, and then get Danny finding us a good ole boy to create holes and run LBs over.

Come on Kyle! Get on it.

Quote from: DM83 on February 14, 2025, 04:42:00 PMYa know, every season is different.
If ya play finesse football, you probably lose.
We have a super prototypical back, in Brady. Runs through, over and around most people. I would bring in another nattering ram  to give him a break, and then get Danny finding us a good ole boy to create holes and run LBs over.

Come on Kyle! Get on it.

So, Hogan is no good, in your opinion.

And Brady is "super prototypical", and got that way while Hogan was his coach.

Which is it?

Positional coaches, coach limited guys.  Certainly a first yr guy will not know much about receivers, QBs and the line. He just hasn't worked with them.  Concept wise he may be ready, based on his enormous three year experience plus the famed Montreal Carabans.

I know some people on the board think the Bombers do no wrong. Both of you.  But really, what's he gonna do do help Experienced pro players?  He just hasn't been exposed to the quality Pressure filled decision making that happens in seconds in a football game.

Coaching one guy, or if we had five rbs even,  is great. But, How does he work with the other four position groups?  I don't think it would work at any level. He has to coordinate game decisions in seconds, and with some new guys, that communication could be difficult.

Ya, the normal progression is the Qb coach moves up the ladder to be OC, as he's been working with the Qb's, both on technique as well as trying to understand concepts and schemes, when to audible, what to audible to, progressing through what reads on what plays etc. Hogan has done none of that at the pro level, and only had 1 year at the CIS level as a backup. That's a pretty big jump for anyone to make, and I think an unrealistic one to learn all that plus be the leader on calling the plays, making in game adjustments etc. And its not like he's coaching in a market like Toronto. Football matters here, it matters alot, arguably the most engaged fans in the league. I just feel for the guy as I don't think he can learn enough to lead and coach pro's who know more than him. What's he going to tell Zach Collaros about play execution, when he himself doesn't even know the playbook?? And aside for learning the playbook, he has to come up with new and innovative plays. It just doesn't make sense. It's like asking someone with Gr 8 math skills do 2nd year Calculus at U of M

Quote from: dd on February 15, 2025, 02:19:58 AMI just feel for the guy as I don't think he can learn enough to lead and coach pro's who know more than him. What's he going to tell Zach Collaros about play execution, when he himself doesn't even know the playbook??

Hogan outlined his M.O. and plan pretty well in that article/interview about him back when he was signed.  It's a worthwhile read.

Basically he's leaning on a collaborative approach.  So he'll rely heavily on his unit coaches and key players.  The best people aren't the best at every detail underneath them, they are the best at choosing who their subordinates are and how to get the most out of them.  MOS is exactly this.

Whether a more bottom-up approach can work at OC or not remains to be seen.  As was already mentioned, maybe we'll see a looser leash for players (esp QB) to integrate their judgement.

Quote from: DM83 on February 14, 2025, 04:42:00 PMI would bring in another nattering ram  to give him a break, and then get Danny finding us a good ole boy to create holes and run LBs over.

If you want a nattering ram, then sign my wife!  She'll dominate the entire league!

As her agent, the bidding starts at $500k/yr.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 15, 2025, 08:14:13 AMHogan outlined his M.O. and plan pretty well in that article/interview about him back when he was signed.  It's a worthwhile read.

Basically he's leaning on a collaborative approach.  So he'll rely heavily on his unit coaches and key players.  The best people aren't the best at every detail underneath them, they are the best at choosing who their subordinates are and how to get the most out of them.  MOS is exactly this.

Whether a more bottom-up approach can work at OC or not remains to be seen.  As was already mentioned, maybe we'll see a looser leash for players (esp QB) to integrate their judgement.

Well said, I strongly believe the early criticism of our new OC is way over stated.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 15, 2025, 08:14:13 AMHogan outlined his M.O. and plan pretty well in that article/interview about him back when he was signed.  It's a worthwhile read.

Basically he's leaning on a collaborative approach.  So he'll rely heavily on his unit coaches and key players.  The best people aren't the best at every detail underneath them, they are the best at choosing who their subordinates are and how to get the most out of them.  MOS is exactly this.

Whether a more bottom-up approach can work at OC or not remains to be seen.  As was already mentioned, maybe we'll see a looser leash for players (esp QB) to integrate their judgement.

A head coach needs to do this, that's what their role is.

But for an OC who has to call the plays...it would be nice if they had any experience at all with those other positions first. He got the job because he's familiar with our playbook and we don't want to change things during this year, but it's a big risk.

When Buck left, I assumed we'd promote Kevin Bourgoin as OC. He's the one who had the experience to make that next step. But he followed Buck to BC. I am very curious to know who's decision that was.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 13, 2025, 05:26:17 AMAnd what did Lapo have?  Serious question.

Before his last stint with us?

16 years in the CFL and another 7 in college before that.

Quote from: Blueforlife on February 15, 2025, 06:28:14 PMWell said, I strongly believe the early criticism of our new OC is way over stated.

Based on what?

Not sure what the worry is about our OC, heck lots on here seem to know what and when the best plays to call or not to call. Piece of cake! We should just give em our numbers and he can text whenever hes stuck

Quote from: TBURGESS on February 15, 2025, 07:25:47 PMBased on what?

Been here long enough to know the players, play book and coaches.  Surrounded by a pretty strong offensive group.  Promoted by MOS who is an exceptional coach and one of best players who knows what he is doing.  Comes into one of the best team cultures we have seen.  Has the support of MOS, a hall of fame QB and a decent QB coach.  Has the best RB in the league. 

Based on  the fact that MOS and management have a long history of some exceptional coaches and a long stretch of success.  Based on the fact we were able to have great success in a similar situation with our defensive coaching (similar not the same).

Based on  the fact that we haven't given him a chance to even start the season before some are saying it was a mistake.  Deep breath, patience will pay off, trust the system, trust the mafia.

I expect a decent year for our play calling, slow start, bumps along the way and a strong finish. More worried about the OL than OC.

Quote from: Blueforlife on February 15, 2025, 09:34:15 PMBeen here long enough to know the players, play book and coaches.  Surrounded by a pretty strong offensive group.  Promoted by MOS who is an exceptional coach and one of best players who knows what he is doing.  Comes into one of the best team cultures we have seen.  Has the support of MOS, a hall of fame QB and a decent QB coach.  Has the best RB in the league. 

Based on  the fact that MOS and management have a long history of some exceptional coaches and a long stretch of success.  Based on the fact we were able to have great success in a similar situation with our defensive coaching (similar not the same).

Based on  the fact that we haven't given him a chance to even start the season before some are saying it was a mistake.  Deep breath, patience will pay off, trust the system, trust the mafia.

I expect a decent year for our play calling, slow start, bumps along the way and a strong finish. More worried about the OL than OC.

None of these are reasons to expect him to be any good at being an OC. 

You're confusing knowing the playbook from a RB perspective to creating a playbook for the whole offence. 
You're equating being hired by MOS with meaning he's going to be good. 
You're confusing what players say in the media for what they really think. 
You're equating other coaching hires, with this coaching hire. Each hire has its own benefits and problems.
You're saying that all patience pays off. That's just not true. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
You're suggesting that no one should suggest something is a mistake until after you see if it is or isn't, which is a lousy/lazy argument. 

Figuring out if a specific guy is a good or bad hire, is mostly based on their track record and their experience. This coach has very little of either. Years less than MOS had when he got the special teams coaching job in Toronto, let alone when he got the HC job in Winnipeg. 

IMO the most likely scenario is that he takes a few seasons to become a good OC, (If he ever does)  just like it took MOS a few seasons to become a good HC. It's also my opinion that Jackson is a significantly better OC choice due to his track record and experience. 

Quote from: TBURGESS on February 15, 2025, 10:09:51 PMNone of these are reasons to expect him to be any good at being an OC.

You're confusing knowing the playbook from a RB perspective to creating a playbook for the whole offence. - I believe that 3 years in the organization is enough for one to understand the offense and playoff, agree to disagree, he has an entire off season to prepare
You're equating being hired by MOS with meaning he's going to be good. - I believe and have stated repeatedly that we would have a slow start, bumps along the way and then it will work out by the end of the season
You're confusing what players say in the media for what they really think. - You 100% just made this up, I mentioned nothing about this, nice try there, no idea where you come up with this stuff
You're equating other coaching hires, with this coaching hire. Each hire has its own benefits and problems.- They are similarities with the two situations, it's how we do business in Bomberville, next man up
You're saying that all patience pays off. That's just not true. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.- I believe that patience will pay off, I believe you have shown a lack of patience at times with your approach and I have rarely agreed with what you post, we can both post how we like, that won't change, I supported MOS, Hall our defense and management in the past, it paid off then, yes it might not work this time but I believe it will and I'll give this OC a few years before I pass judgement.  It's true that patience has paid off more often than not in the current mini-dynasty run.  Trust the mafia, trust the system, believe in the organization.
You're suggesting that no one should suggest something is a mistake until after you see if it is or isn't, which is a lousy/lazy argument. -I have suggested nothing of the sort, I have stated my opinion and you have stated yours, you are really pushing the limit here imo, making stuff up, I would suggest you stop responding to my posts and I'll do the same, there is no value or reason for you to post things like this imo. 

Figuring out if a specific guy is a good or bad hire, is mostly based on their track record and their experience. This coach has very little of either. Years less than MOS had when he got the special teams coaching job in Toronto, let alone when he got the HC job in Winnipeg. - Let's let him try before we pass adjustment, just an idea, geez

IMO the most likely scenario is that he takes a few seasons to become a good OC, (If he ever does)  just like it took MOS a few seasons to become a good HC. It's also my opinion that Jackson is a significantly better OC choice due to his track record and experience. - patience paid of with MOS and I think it will again, Jackson will be a great asset, we can agree on that

We rarely see eye to eye and there is no value in this continuing.  You seam to be against the hire, I'm ok with it.  Agree to disagree and move one.

I am allowed to support our OC, You don't have to, that's your option.  Let's let him coach 1st before we judge him.  Give peace a chance LOL. 

I believe that all the reasons I stated will help make him a good OC and give him a chance for success.  Doesn't mean I'm right it's just what my gut tells me.  We will have a good run game if our OL is good, we will get our passing going if our game plan is solid and Zach has time to throw and builds experience up with his new receivers.  I am not worried about our play calling at all.  I think it will sort itself out.  It will be decent, the rest of the factors are bigger (OL, new receivers).

Some like our OC, some don't, some on the fence, that is ok.  There is no right and wrong just a bunch of fans guessing at what makes sense for next steps for a very good team, group of coaches and organization.

There is power in continuity and I think you are under estimating the power of that.  I believe you are more interested in an argument than stating your opinion about our OC.  I see us having a good offense if our OL is good, our run game is awesome and we have a good deep ball.

The main issue I have is that O feel this team needed an outside injection, simply to bring some new perspectives and freshness.
 While Hogan will undoubtedly utilize the existing playbook, early.in tc he needs to establish that status quo with our offence is not good enough

Quote from: Pete on February 15, 2025, 11:11:46 PMThe main issue I have is that O feel this team needed an outside injection, simply to bring some new perspectives and freshness.
 While Hogan will undoubtedly utilize the existing playbook, early.in tc he needs to establish that status quo with our offence is not good enough

Well said and agreed.  Change was needed, full disclosure I was ok with sticking with Buck but I see a good option here in continuity with our OC with a new flavour coming in (QB coach).  Very excited for the season.

I think our offence needs a strong deep ball and best run game in the league and we will continue to dominate.

I see a good run game early if OL is decent and the deep ball will come around mid season and we will finish strong if healthy.  Have I mentioned I'm excited for Bomber ball? Lol

Hogan only knows our offensive scheme and he barely knows that. What fresh perspective and ideas is he going to bring and where would he get them from??. It's not like he's played in the nfl or the cfl, on multiple teams and systems, and knows the strengths of each, he only knows our system, so I expect much of the same.

Given the expectations are going to be high this year with us hosting the grey. Up, and the learning curve involved at learning the OC position, he is going to need the time that we dont have to spare.

Quote from: dd on February 16, 2025, 03:28:13 AMHogan only knows our offensive scheme and he barely knows that. What fresh perspective and ideas is he going to bring and where would he get them from??. It's not like he's played in the nfl or the cfl, on multiple teams and systems, and knows the strengths of each, he only knows our system, so I expect much of the same.

Given the expectations are going to be high this year with us hosting the grey. Up, and the learning curve involved at learning the OC position, he is going to need the time that we dont have to spare.

You are making an assumption that is likely untrue regarding him barely knowing our offensive system.  We have a new QB coach, new faces on the OL and new receivers which will all contribute to some change.  I believe our offence will be rooted in the past with a few new flavor from our OC and QB coach.

You continue to understate his experience with football.  Yes not from NFL or CFL playing experience but he has been around the game a long time and will bring more ideas I believe than  you state.  "Info below".  Our offense will be a team effort between OC, QB coach, Zach and I'm sure with input from leaders in the locker room.

"A product of Rosemere, Quebec, Hogan came to the Blue Bombers in 2022 after serving as the offensive coordinator, running backs, wide receiver and quarterbacks coach with the Université de Montréal Carabins.

Hogan spent two years with the Montreal Alouettes prior to his days with the Carabins, beginning as an offensive quality control coach and then serving as a defensive assistant and receivers coach. He also worked for the Alouettes as a youth football program coordinator and served as the offensive coordinator at École secondaire Curé-Antoine-Labelle Loups and at College André-Grasset. Hogan was also a member of the Université de Laval Rouge et Or's Vanier Cup championship team in 2006."

Your statement about him knowing only our system is false.

How about we give him at least a half season before we pass too harsh of judgment.  I will give him two years to hone his craft before I am overly critical.  MOS believes in him and I won't argue with that. 

Folks are calling you out on your opinion, because you refuse to admit that it's a terrible resume for a CFL OC. 

 ;) glad to see others support my rant on the OC.  Probably a nice guy. Under qualified, but he will prove to be overwhelmed.  It's not like anyone has supported the hire as an OC. Sure Brady likes him, but as mentioned earlier, being a coach of 1-3 guys compared to an entire offence couldn't be more extreme.  Totally weird.

Quote from: Jesse on February 15, 2025, 06:58:20 PMA head coach needs to do this, that's what their role is.

But for an OC who has to call the plays...it would be nice if they had any experience at all with those other positions first. He got the job because he's familiar with our playbook and we don't want to change things during this year, but it's a big risk.

When Buck left, I assumed we'd promote Kevin Bourgoin as OC. He's the one who had the experience to make that next step. But he followed Buck to BC. I am very curious to know who's decision that was.

Ummm.. that decision was made bay... wait for it... Kevin Bouroin.  Should he have waited to se if he got a promotion to OC here, or take the for sure job in BC. If he didn't get the OC job, the new OC usually brings in his own staff.  Kevin made the calculation and took the sure thing.  Probably a mistake, but its his decision.

No doubt, when Buck left, MOS/Walters told Kevin he would be in consideration, but that, as always, a proper search for the best candidate would be made.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 16, 2025, 04:23:45 PMUmmm.. that decision was made bay... wait for it... Kevin Bouroin.  Should he have waited to se if he got a promotion to OC here, or take the for sure job in BC. If he didn't get the OC job, the new OC usually brings in his own staff.  Kevin made the calculation and took the sure thing.  Probably a mistake, but its his decision.

No doubt, when Buck left, MOS/Walters told Kevin he would be in consideration, but that, as always, a proper search for the best candidate would be made.

Yah, that part bothers me, strange if they chose Hogan over Bourgain and bad if they did not act quick enough to prevent Buck from stealing him away. Bourgain would likely be sitting higher up the ladder if he stayed in Wpg.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 16, 2025, 04:23:45 PMUmmm.. that decision was made bay... wait for it... Kevin Bouroin.  Should he have waited to se if he got a promotion to OC here, or take the for sure job in BC. If he didn't get the OC job, the new OC usually brings in his own staff.  Kevin made the calculation and took the sure thing.  Probably a mistake, but its his decision.

No doubt, when Buck left, MOS/Walters told Kevin he would be in consideration, but that, as always, a proper search for the best candidate would be made.

We have no idea what happened.

The reason it took so long to decide could very well have been because Bourgoin was our choice to be OC but he chose to follow Buck over staying here. And then we were left scrambling so had to find the best case scenario among our existing staff because that's a priority to not change the philosophy.

Or we very well might have not seen him as a leading candidate and he moved on for the promotion.

Quote from: Jesse on February 16, 2025, 05:47:54 PMWe have no idea what happened.

The reason it took so long to decide could very well have been because Bourgoin was our choice to be OC but he chose to follow Buck over staying here. And then we were left scrambling so had to find the best case scenario among our existing staff because that's a priority to not change the philosophy.

Or we very well might have not seen him as a leading candidate and he moved on for the promotion.

Good point, begs to ask why not a hint of the process can be revealed to those who are curious to know how it unfolded.

Quote from: Jesse on February 16, 2025, 05:47:54 PMWe have no idea what happened.

The reason it took so long to decide could very well have been because Bourgoin was our choice to be OC but he chose to follow Buck over staying here. And then we were left scrambling so had to find the best case scenario among our existing staff because that's a priority to not change the philosophy.

Or we very well might have not seen him as a leading candidate and he moved on for the promotion.

His move was lateral, not a promotion, whereas his position, should he have remained, would have been a promotion at least.

Buck is going to wear 2 hats, as HC and OC.  Good luck with that.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 16, 2025, 06:37:51 PMHis move was lateral, not a promotion, whereas his position, should he have remained, would have been a promotion at least.

Buck is going to wear 2 hats, as HC and OC.  Good luck with that.

Buck will struggle but find his way in a couple years imo.  Two hats are a lot to fill.

If Rourke doesn't get his act together, and he didn't in 2024, the Lions are in for a world of pain and Buck will take the brunt of most of it. The Lions were doing fine under Adams Jr. until he got hurt, brought in Rourke to save the day, but he didn't and they chased Adams out of town. Massive mistake. It remains to be seen if Rourke can regain the form he had in his rookie year and if he doesn't, things are going to be rough on the left coast..

I think BC will be average

I think BC will be fighting for 1st in the west. 

It's  the last year for Winnipeg's potential glory( O line) Are Walter's and O'Shea staying on? I mean those guys are awesome.

But as others have said BC should be better. The Elks should be better. Sask has unknowns and QB.
Calgary is "person non grata". Why don't they sign their stars. Their QB situation is potentially great.  The most disrespected QB gets another shot at legitimacy.  His is a sure "made for TV" movie.  Plays hard, team first guy, good skills.  If he plays within himself, and stops literally crying after crap plays, he could be around for a while. As of yet, he has really been victimized by management of all the teams he had been on. He needs help by being on a talented team.

Winnipeg? The management has proven itself. I don't like the results of re-loading, but, they have done it in the past.  Please just get a left guard!

BC will be up and down like yo yo

BC's performance hinges on Rourke's play---will he come out like last years train wreck, if so, they are 4-5th in the west. If he comes out firing like he did in his rookie season, they are 1-2 in the west.

Quote from: dd on February 17, 2025, 04:19:41 PMBC's performance hinges on Rourke's play---will he come out like last years train wreck, if so, they are 4-5th in the west. If he comes out firing like he did in his rookie season, they are 1-2 in the west.

Who does he have to throw to?  McInnis may have been figured out already: he was neutralized for the last third of the season by every team.  And his body type is going to be prone to injuries now that he's getting older.

And aren't both of the "2 H's" gone?  Or maybe one was retained?  Not good enough.

Our ostensible, middle-of-the-road 2025 REC corps looks stellar compared to BC!

For Rourke to be successful he needs quality guys who can tear down the field or get in the zone hole fast and then catch his insane overloaded heaters.  They should have signed Kenny.

Quote from: DM83 on February 16, 2025, 04:04:46 PM;) glad to see others support my rant on the OC.  Probably a nice guy. Under qualified, but he will prove to be overwhelmed.  It's not like anyone has supported the hire as an OC. Sure Brady likes him, but as mentioned earlier, being a coach of 1-3 guys compared to an entire offence couldn't be more extreme.  Totally weird.

Like Younger did (successfully!) in '24??

Maybe we've found the magic sauce:

Noob head coordinator + experienced coordinator-whisperer == success.

Mike Miller (STC) was also a no-experience noob thrown into the deep end and he exceeded all expectations.

I'm totally fine with Hogan and think he'll be great.  And if not, you can hire McAdoo in a hot second off his couch for a 2-4 and some smokes.  It's not like there aren't options out there!

Quote from: Pete on February 15, 2025, 11:11:46 PMWhile Hogan will undoubtedly utilize the existing playbook, early.in tc he needs to establish that status quo with our offence is not good enough

Does the "playbook" remain property of the team?  If so I'd dust off the 2019 Lapo book and start there.  The farther away from the Lapo playbook Buck moved, the worse our outcome.

The only reservation I have is Hogan said his philosophy is KISS, simpler plays that are easier to learn & remember, and then it comes down to execution.

That's all well and good but I really want more creativity and complexity.  If you can do that and KISS for the players themselves (minus maybe the QB), then great.  However I'm not sure how you dumb our O schemes down any more than was done in the 2024 season.

In the GC it seemed like we had a book of only 10 plays and we just thought brute force and execution would win.  TOR did the misdirection and highbrain chess moves a la Lapo and ran circles around us (even before Zach's injury), winning with probably the worst "starting" QB in a generation.  With a revitalized East we'll never win another cup until we get back to highbrain chess tactics.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2025, 03:22:27 AMDoes the "playbook" remain property of the team?  If so I'd dust off the 2019 Lapo book and start there.  The farther away from the Lapo playbook Buck moved, the worse our outcome.

If anything it was the opposite, IMO. It was the lack of creativity and the stubborn inability to adapt that I found so very frustrating. Reminded me a lot of Lapo.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2025, 03:22:27 AMThe only reservation I have is Hogan said his philosophy is KISS, simpler plays that are easier to learn & remember, and then it comes down to execution.

Like run the ball when you have the best running back in the league?

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2025, 03:22:27 AMThat's all well and good but I really want more creativity and complexity.

Well you're not going to get that with Lapo's playbook. In Lapo's time do you not remember thinking that the defense knows exactly what we're going to do here"? I sure do.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2025, 03:22:27 AMIf you can do that and KISS for the players themselves (minus maybe the QB), then great.  However I'm not sure how you dumb our O schemes down any more than was done in the 2024 season.

In the GC it seemed like we had a book of only 10 plays and we just thought brute force and execution would win.  TOR did the misdirection and highbrain chess moves a la Lapo and ran circles around us (even before Zach's injury), winning with probably the worst "starting" QB in a generation.  With a revitalized East we'll never win another cup until we get back to highbrain chess tactics.

I'm not sure where you get the Lapo high brain stuff. Every defensive coordinator in the league knew exactly what we were going to do on every down when Lapo was here. Does run the ball for 3 yards on first down and throw the ball for 5 yards on second down ring any bells? That's what I remember and it sucked! I don't want Lapo's playbook anywhere near this offense. Yes I agree with you that we need more creativity and complexity and I hope that's what we get because we didn't get it with Buck(Lapo2).

A D knowing what you are doing, but you still doing it successfully can be a thing.  You just have to be better at executing the play that the D is at defending it.

Which was our run game (Hogan's) last year.  We ran at will over just about every team.  Until Buck had the brain fart and decided "They know we are going to run, so I'll pass, and he continued that trend even when Zach couldn't grip the ball.

You don't abandon what got you to the GC when you are playing the GC.

Quote from: J5V on February 24, 2025, 10:35:36 AMWell you're not going to get that with Lapo's playbook. In Lapo's time do you not remember thinking that the defense knows exactly what we're going to do here"? I sure do.

Did the Ds not have the same advantage with Buck?  Look at the GC.  After our 1 good series the D knew every play ahead of time like they were listening in on Buck's mic.

And it wasn't just the GC... most of our losses seemed to have the Ds "listening in", or making near-100% guesses as to what Buck would do.

Buck was also a "run on every 1st down" guy.  And then "pass on every 2nd & long".  We were probably the last team in the league if you count draw or run plays on 2nd & long.  The only thing you can give Buck is he'd take some shots on 2nd & long, whereas Lapo always wanted to throw for 7 on 2nd & 8 (SSK's current syndrome).

Quote from: J5V on February 24, 2025, 10:35:36 AMI'm not sure where you get the Lapo high brain stuff. Every defensive coordinator in the league knew exactly what we were going to do on every down when Lapo was here.

Remember the TSN talking heads in our Lapo-OC era?  It was always "the master of misdirection" and pre-snap movement.  We were known for all the complex movements and schemes and every single season after Lapo left we had less and less of that.  Until finally the last GC where there's basically no movement, no misdirection, no nothing.  We just run straight forward and everyone curls and we wonder why Zach gets INT'd (see: GC).

Remember the "do you know the play?  I don't know the play?  What's the play <SNAP>" trick we did on many sneaks in '19?

Lapo is well known as the "X and O genius".  I want to get back to that.  Buck thought we could just run straight forward and bully everyone at all times and while that worked in '21 when we were miles above every other team, it doesn't work so well when 2-4 other teams have caught up in talent.  I hope that Hogan KISS doesn't mean even less misdirection and trickery and creativity.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2025, 06:57:02 PMDid the Ds not have the same advantage with Buck?  Look at the GC.  After our 1 good series the D knew every play ahead of time like they were listening in on Buck's mic.

Agree. Buck was just as bad.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2025, 06:57:02 PMThe only thing you can give Buck is he'd take some shots on 2nd & long, whereas Lapo always wanted to throw for 7 on 2nd & 8 (SSK's current syndrome).

It's going to be interesting to see how Buck makes out in BC.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2025, 06:57:02 PMRemember the TSN talking heads in our Lapo-OC era?  It was always "the master of misdirection" and pre-snap movement.  We were known for all the complex movements and schemes and every single season after Lapo left we had less and less of that.  Until finally the last GC where there's basically no movement, no misdirection, no nothing.  We just run straight forward and everyone curls and we wonder why Zach gets INT'd (see: GC).

I don't disagree, I'm sure Lapo knows his Xs and Os as far as play design is concerned. It's his game management, predictability/lack of imagination/timing I have a problem with.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2025, 06:57:02 PMRemember the "do you know the play?  I don't know the play?  What's the play <SNAP>" trick we did on many sneaks in '19?

Lapo is well known as the "X and O genius".  I want to get back to that.  Buck thought we could just run straight forward and bully everyone at all times and while that worked in '21 when we were miles above every other team, it doesn't work so well when 2-4 other teams have caught up in talent.  I hope that Hogan KISS doesn't mean even less misdirection and trickery and creativity.

I'm hoping for the best and I'm willing to be patient as long as we see signs of progress. What was disappointing to me with Buck was his lack of development after many years as the Blue Bomber OC.

Buck and Lapo are both good OCs, both found a lot of success and had issues along the way.  Buck will take time to figure it out in BC but if he does could be deadly.

I have zero worries about our OC, other than potential slow start which could be OL dependent.

Not sure you said it. I thought you did..
Buck tried, but didn't exactly have the crazy misdirection knowledge Lapo knew and understood. Lapo used more misdirection, and that screwed up defensive alignments pre snap. Buck tried, but went more Olivera.  Then as you mentioned, the defenses keyed more in down and distance, and with the lack of road graders who could also pass block were able to defeat us.

Now we have a situation where we have a great RB coach, but who lacks a coach Lapolice's "abstract" motion understanding. (Honestly, I don't think anyone does!) So we will at best see an offence similar to last year. It will be good but pre snap predictable. Plus with a lack of quality receivers and blockers,(predictable limited pre snap) therefore enabling pre snap predictability. Therefore-similar (predictable tendency results)That will also allowdefenses to shut down those plays.

The kid has three? years pro experience to anticipate pro-defensive player abilities in the secondary defensive alignments....(as a RB coach he is not watching secondary or passing down defensive tendencies, but defensive front seven formations that would potentially shut down defensive fronts..,like who is filling gaps if it's a running down situation)

If I, as a defensive coach, and it's a running down situation, am I guessing the tendency has proven to me Brady off tackle left, or be a "read"  am I bringing my SAM up to the LOS, or crashing my corner to fill,inside to narrow the running lane, and again if so let Brady read and bounce if the secondary crashes? Inside, and Brady reads, and cuts off the potential "kick" out block" by either an off side. Backside slot, or other pulling guard. 

That's what the RB coach, and OL coach, and therefore, the offensive co-ordinator, have to coach. Does the "kid" have the creds to speak up? Probably? But if not?

And there's the best thing so far about Hogan as OC: we aren't suddenly going to be thrust into a pass-first/pass-mostly OC paradigm.  An ex-RB coach should make sure we keep our run-heavy character.

Good!

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 26, 2025, 12:16:11 AMAnd there's the best thing so far about Hogan as OC: we aren't suddenly going to be thrust into a pass-first/pass-mostly OC paradigm.  An ex-RB coach should make sure we keep our run-heavy character.

Good!

Guess what Bucks first coaching job was.

should have a winning offence this year.. Buck was too conservative most of the time.

Huh! Anyone who thinks Buck was conservative does not have a clue.
He was no Lapo, but the creativity he copied from Lapo was outstanding.

Quote from: DM83 on February 26, 2025, 05:56:15 AMHuh! Anyone who thinks Buck was conservative does not have a clue.
He was no Lapo, but the creativity he copied from Lapo was outstanding.

Yeah, he was highly creative in the GC making a QB that can't grip the ball throw...

I'm not sure Buck knew the word "adjustment".  Too many times it seemed like he kept trying the same thing over and over, hoping it would eventually work.

 

Quote from: theaardvark on February 26, 2025, 08:34:11 PMI'm not sure Buck knew the word "adjustment".  Too many times it seemed like he kept trying the same thing over and over, hoping it would eventually work.

Buck seemed to think "adjustment" meant merely doing what the D was forcing you to do.  i.e. They load the box and stuff the run -> don't run Brady in the GC.

I want an adjustment where when team B stops X, instead of going to the Y they want you to go to, you go to the unexpected Z.  We never did anything unexpected.  And when the D dictates your O plan, you're going to lose.

We were always reacting and never thinking 3 steps ahead.  We rarely had a real "plan B".  When our plan A worked, we were unstoppable (see WDF).  When our plan A failed, we stunk (see GC).

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 26, 2025, 10:13:37 PMBuck seemed to think "adjustment" meant merely doing what the D was forcing you to do.  i.e. They load the box and stuff the run -> don't run Brady in the GC.

I want an adjustment where when team B stops X, instead of going to the Y they want you to go to, you go to the unexpected Z.  We never did anything unexpected.  And when the D dictates your O plan, you're going to lose.

We were always reacting and never thinking 3 steps ahead.  We rarely had a real "plan B".  When our plan A worked, we were unstoppable (see WDF).  When our plan A failed, we stunk (see GC).

I'll can't forget the 2011 GC game when Buck was unable to get the ball into the endzone until the last 4 minutes of the game.  Probably the worst game I've ever watched, I'll never forgive him.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 26, 2025, 11:33:24 PMI'll can't forget the 2011 GC game when Buck was unable to get the ball into the endzone until the last 4 minutes of the game.  Probably the worst game I've ever watched, I'll never forgive him.

Wow... worse than '24??  That's hard to believe!  I'll have to go back and rewatch...

The CJOB Bomber special from Feb 25 has a segment with Hogan around 8:35pm.

He elaborates a tiny bit on his KISS philosophy.  Highlights more on how it's about keeping it simple for the players so they aren't confused at the snap.  That's ok.  (Has this been a problem for us?)

He also says he wants more trickery/etc, and that gets the players excited.

So I guess the issue will be achieving seemingly mutually-exclusive goals.

Also in the show: WPG lost 22% man-games to injury in '24.  '23 it was 7%.  So there's an actual number to the dire injury situation we saw last year.

I wonder if SSK's '21/'22 achilles/ACL debacle can beat 22%.  (It might!)

Yes, techno good point. Poor Zac  could not throw with that damaged finger. He was a "gamer" as it is called. But those interceptions I bet was a result of it.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 27, 2025, 04:49:55 AMAlso in the show: WPG lost 22% man-games to injury in '24.  '23 it was 7%.  So there's an actual number to the dire injury situation we saw last year.

Absolutely crazy they still took the west in light of that.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 27, 2025, 04:47:16 AMThe CJOB Bomber special from Feb 25 has a segment with Hogan around 8:35pm.

He elaborates a tiny bit on his KISS philosophy.  Highlights more on how it's about keeping it simple for the players so they aren't confused at the snap.  That's ok.  (Has this been a problem for us?)

He also says he wants more trickery/etc, and that gets the players excited.

So I guess the issue will be achieving seemingly mutually-exclusive goals.

I think confusion with the playbook was an issue last season especially with the receivers but also with the O-line early on.

Evidence was in the slow start but also:

1.  Buck was on the sidelines for the first time instead of up in the box and he wasn't down there to communicate with Zach.

2.  Zach frustration with rookie receivers not being in the locations he wanted them to be.

3.  Pokey running simplified curl routes for much of the season, it wasn't until the playoffs that he started to run deeper routes.  This could have been due to a position change but not sure, I think he struggled with the waggle earlier on.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 27, 2025, 03:35:03 PM1.  Buck was on the sidelines for the first time instead of up in the box and he wasn't down there to communicate with Zach.

I wonder if this was Buck knowing he wanted to take a HC job in '24... Going down on the field gets him much more acclimated to the HC view/role than sitting up in the booth.

I always thought it was odd him coming down like that.  He was always a booth guy.  It would be like Hall suddenly calling from the sidelines!

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 27, 2025, 03:35:03 PM2.  Zach frustration with rookie receivers not being in the locations he wanted them to be.

Oh ya.  Those were painful to watch.  Wasn't there even some in the post-season.  Let's hope after the PS and maybe week 1 we don't see those again!

Quote from: DM83 on February 27, 2025, 05:57:40 AMYes, techno good point. Poor Zac  could not throw with that damaged finger. He was a "gamer" as it is called. But those interceptions I bet was a result of it.

That, no doubt, is why we brought in back up QBs with some playing ability in the CFL.  If Zach gets injured we now can put in people that have played and not rely on rookies.

That's the embarassing part of the GC meltdown...every team needs to have a serviceable #2 Qb as it is just a matter of time before your starter gets injured. Look how many starters sat out last year due to injury...VAJ, Harris, Kelly, Fajardo, Brown, and BLM, MBT and Maier struggled and were pulled due to poor performance, so 8 of 9 starters missed playing time, and of course, our Qb gets hurt in the most important game and we had NOTHING to put on the field. It was totally embarassing.

I am hoping Jackson gets our backups up to speed so when pressed into duty, they are able to move the offense

Quote from: dd on March 04, 2025, 12:40:52 AMThat's the embarassing part of the GC meltdown...every team needs to have a serviceable #2 Qb as it is just a matter of time before your starter gets injured. Look how many starters sat out last year due to injury...VAJ, Harris, Kelly, Fajardo, Brown, and BLM, MBT and Maier struggled and were pulled due to poor performance, so 8 of 9 starters missed playing time, and of course, our Qb gets hurt in the most important game and we had NOTHING to put on the field. It was totally embarassing.

I am hoping Jackson gets our backups up to speed so when pressed into duty, they are able to move the offense

Toronto's star QB breaks his leg yet they go on to beat us in the Grey Cup. That was hard to stomach. We had a backup but chose not to use him. We also had the league's best running back and chose not to use him either. Some strange decisions made during that time. That's what was most concerning to me.

Quote from: J5V on March 04, 2025, 01:05:28 AMToronto's star QB breaks his leg yet they go on to beat us in the Grey Cup. That was hard to stomach.

Ya, it still boggles the mind.  Seeing Kelly go down in EDF right before our game there were knowledgeable fans in both Blue/Gold and Green salivating at the prospect of a "sure thing" GC.  All they had to do was win the WDF and the cup was going to be handed to them.

I said pre-GC that Dinwiddie might use this as his redemption arc to get revenge on the football gods for thrusting him into his GC as a Bomber only to fail miserably.  It was his chance to get the monkey off his back and right all past wrongs.  And he did.

It would make a heck of a movie.

Let's spoil the epilogue by destroying TOR in the GC @PAS in '25!  I hope WFC is planning for that game already!  You aren't going to beat TOR in Nov just taking it "1 game at a time".

Quote from: dd on March 04, 2025, 12:40:52 AMThat's the embarassing part of the GC meltdown...every team needs to have a serviceable #2 Qb as it is just a matter of time before your starter gets injured. Look how many starters sat out last year due to injury...VAJ, Harris, Kelly, Fajardo, Brown, and BLM, MBT and Maier struggled and were pulled due to poor performance, so 8 of 9 starters missed playing time, and of course, our Qb gets hurt in the most important game and we had NOTHING to put on the field. It was totally embarassing.

I am hoping Jackson gets our backups up to speed so when pressed into duty, they are able to move the offense

That is specifically Jackson's job as QB coach but he will need the full cooperation of the OC and HC to give the backup QB regular and sufficient playing time.  It would be dumb for them to put all their eggs back in Zach's basket and carry on as if good luck is always going to be on their side.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 04, 2025, 03:56:35 PMThat is specifically Jackson's job as QB coach but he will need the full cooperation of the OC and HC to give the backup QB regular and sufficient playing time.  It would be dumb for them to put all their eggs back in Zach's basket and carry on as if good luck is always going to be on their side.

Agree. I remember us beating BC last year 25-0 at home, yet we didn't put in our #2 Qb to finish the game out  the last 1 or 2 possessions. Commonly called garbage time, but that's the time we need to try out our #2 Qb's and let them go. Give them a script of some low risk plays and let them execute. We don't do that, and we better start, because rolling out your #2 Qb in the GC game with zero reps under his belt is inexcusable.

Quote from: dd on March 04, 2025, 05:56:18 PMAgree. I remember us beating BC last year 25-0 at home, yet we didn't put in our #2 Qb to finish the game out  the last 1 or 2 possessions. Commonly called garbage time, but that's the time we need to try out our #2 Qb's and let them go. Give them a script of some low risk plays and let them execute. We don't do that, and we better start, because rolling out your #2 Qb in the GC game with zero reps under his belt is inexcusable.

The Dinwiddie effect...

Quote from: dd on March 04, 2025, 05:56:18 PMAgree. I remember us beating BC last year 25-0 at home, yet we didn't put in our #2 Qb to finish the game out  the last 1 or 2 possessions. Commonly called garbage time, but that's the time we need to try out our #2 Qb's and let them go. Give them a script of some low risk plays and let them execute. We don't do that, and we better start, because rolling out your #2 Qb in the GC game with zero reps under his belt is inexcusable.

I'd like to see the transition made to start the 2nd half, that way if it goes poorly Zach can come back in the 4th Q and still have time to save the day.

Quote from: theaardvark on March 04, 2025, 07:26:16 PMThe Dinwiddie effect...

We got sooooo schooled last year in the Grey Cup, it wasn't even funny, and Buck was a former Qb too, but his game plan was a joke compared to Dinwiddie's. My theory is this...Dinwiddie was a backup Qb, so he knew first hand what plays were difficult to execute and which ones were fairly easy to execute. He didn't expect Arbuckle to be Kelly, he expected Arbuckle to be Arbuckle, but called a game where he could complete the called upon plays and played within his skill zone. I don't think Buck had this knowledge as he was a #1 Qb, so didn't struggle with the 'thinking' part of the game, he just went out and played his heart out. One played with his head, the other with his heart. If Pierce had been as smart as Dinwiddie, he wouldn't have taken all those concussions, he would have thrown it away or slide etc. All water under the bridge now, but we now have Jackson, who was a #1 Qb but primarily a backup, so I am thinking he's more cerebral when it comes to calling the game. I am hoping to heck that Hogan asks for his input and listens to him.

Quote from: dd on March 04, 2025, 10:34:23 PMMy theory is this...Dinwiddie was a backup Qb, so he knew first hand what plays were difficult to execute and which ones were fairly easy to execute. He didn't expect Arbuckle to be Kelly, he expected Arbuckle to be Arbuckle, but called a game where he could complete the called upon plays and played within his skill zone. I don't think Buck had this knowledge as he was a #1 Qb, so didn't struggle with the 'thinking' part of the game, he just went out and played his heart out. One played with his head, the other with his heart.

That's a good theory.  Plus I think Dinwiddie thinks he has (had?) a lot to prove.  Maybe he'll get lazy now that he's done it and won 2, including an "unwinnable" 10.5-spread (against) GC.

Buck was destroyed in the last GC.  Maybe top-notch execution (like TOR's) might have given us a win (minus the finger cut).  Maybe.  But it shouldn't have even been close to begin with when you have Zach & Kenny and they have Arbuckle & Brissett.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing what kind of style & plan Hogan has since he never was a QB (right?).  As "the RB coach guy" we might even get something with more synergy with our strengths.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 05, 2025, 05:44:09 AMThat's a good theory.  Plus I think Dinwiddie thinks he has (had?) a lot to prove.  Maybe he'll get lazy now that he's done it and won 2, including an "unwinnable" 10.5-spread (against) GC.

Buck was destroyed in the last GC.  Maybe top-notch execution (like TOR's) might have given us a win (minus the finger cut).  Maybe.  But it shouldn't have even been close to begin with when you have Zach & Kenny and they have Arbuckle & Brissett.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing what kind of style & plan Hogan has since he never was a QB (right?).  As "the RB coach guy" we might even get something with more synergy with our strengths.

Buck was not good last season, period. I'm actually relieved to know he's gone. I'm still angry about his refusal to employ Brady in the Grey Cup. I'm almost surprised Brady didn't demand a trade after that debacle.

I really hope this team is angry about their Grey Cup performance and channels that anger this season. This team needs to come out of the blocks with a chip on their shoulder and take no prisoners this season. Anything less will be a disappointment.