West
BC | Justin McInnis
92 rec 1469 yards 7 TD
Edmonton | Eugene Lewis
69 rec 982 yards 9 TDs
Calgary | Reggie Begelton*
89 rec 1112 yards 4 TDs
Saskatchewan | Rolan Milligan Jr.*
71 DT 20 ST 0 sck 8 INTs
Winnipeg | Brady Oliveira*
228 car 1318 yards 3 TDs; 54 rec 465 yards 1 TD; 1783 yfs
East
Hamilton | Bo Levi Mitchell*
5026 yards 31 Tds
Toronto | Ka'Deem Carey
191 car 1060 yards 7 TDs; 37 rec 356 yards 1 TD; 1416 yfs
Ottawa | Justin Hardy*
97 rec 1343 yards 5 TDs
Montreal | Tyrice Beverette*
98 DT 9 ST 4 sck 2 INT 4 FF
I like Brady in the West, but might come down to the final week if anyone has a big week.
Personally, I think Beverette should get the Eastern nod, but wouldn't be surprised if voters force Bo in there just because he's a QB who put up numbers.
How can it not be Oliveira?
(rhetorical question)
Kind of an underwhelming year in the MOP race.
If I look at the MOP winners, seems like the most underwhelming winner since Travis Lulay in 2011.
It will be either Oliveira or Milligan Jr.
Love BO but I would be a hard homer (which I am I guess) to not recognize Milligan as worthy. Guy is everywhere on the field, including special teams. Since this award acknowledges individual effort I'm able to give him full credit without saying anything nice about the Riders.
Let's see if either of these two have monster games this weekend to make the decision easier.
Quote from: blue_or_die on October 25, 2024, 06:12:39 PMLove BO but I would be a hard homer (which I am I guess) to not recognize Milligan as worthy. Guy is everywhere on the field, including special teams. Since this award acknowledges individual effort I'm able to give him full credit without saying anything nice about the Riders.
Let's see if either of these two have monster games this weekend to make the decision easier.
Don't think the voters will give the MOP to Milligan, it would make them look daft if they didn't also award him the MODP. IMO nobody had a significant enough season to receive 2 awards, but if they give Brady MOP it's impossible to deny him the MOC I guess.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 25, 2024, 07:03:38 PMDon't think the voters will give the MOP to Milligan, it would make them look daft if they didn't also award him the MODP. IMO nobody had a significant enough season to receive 2 awards, but if they give Brady MOP it's impossible to deny him the MOC I guess.
Practically, yes you're right. The voters are biased toward offense and will be making a strong case for BLM, as gross as it is. In a vacuum based purely on contribution is the context of my statement, rather.
I did some quick math on who has won the CFL MOP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFL%27s_Most_Outstanding_Player_Award) over the last 70 years:
- QB, 42 (60%)
- RB, 16 (23%)
- WR, 7 (10%)
- SB, 2 (3%)
- TE, 1 (1.4%)
- LB, 1 (1.4%)
- DB, 1 (1.4%)
So, based on this, there's a >95% chance it'll be a player on offense. The most likely candidates are QB and RB, as while the WR #'s this year are impressive, I'm not sure they're as outstanding as Brandon Banks in 2019, Chad Owens in 2012, Geroy Simon in 2006, or Milt Stegall in 2002.
That leaves RB vs QB.
In the west, it's Brady Oliveira vs Bo Levi Mitchell in the east. Of the two, I think BLM is a better pick because his #'s are head-and-shoulders better than other QB's, whereas I don't think I can say the same as Oliveira. The one caveat is that Oliveria is critical to the success of the Bombers, but I guess BLM is to the TiCats as well.
I wonder how much voters will consider the fact that Mitchell was benched.
Quote from: Cool Spot on October 25, 2024, 08:49:30 PMI did some quick math on who has won the CFL MOP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFL%27s_Most_Outstanding_Player_Award) over the last 70 years:
- QB, 42 (60%)
- RB, 16 (23%)
- WR, 7 (10%)
- SB, 2 (3%)
- TE, 1 (1.4%)
- LB, 1 (1.4%)
- DB, 1 (1.4%)
So, based on this, there's a >95% chance it'll be a player on offense. The most likely candidates are QB and RB, as while the WR #'s this year are impressive, I'm not sure they're as outstanding as Brandon Banks in 2019, Chad Owens in 2012, Geroy Simon in 2006, or Milt Stegall in 2002.
That leaves RB vs QB.
In the west, it's Brady Oliveira vs Bo Levi Mitchell in the east. Of the two, I think BLM is a better pick because his #'s are head-and-shoulders better than other QB's, whereas I don't think I can say the same as Oliveira. The one caveat is that Oliveria is critical to the success of the Bombers, but I guess BLM is to the TiCats as well.
What success?
Quote from: gobombersgo on October 25, 2024, 09:29:05 PMI wonder how much voters will consider the fact that Mitchell was benched.
I don't think that will affect their vote, but they may not want to be historically associated with voting for one of the few winning QB that missed the playoffs and still won the MOP. Just to note BLM won the MOP in 2016 and 2018, making him a 3 time winner at the tale end of his career is kind of needless, when he hasn't been great for many years.
Quote from: Jesse on October 25, 2024, 05:15:23 PMWest
BC | Justin McInnis
92 rec 1469 yards 7 TD
Edmonton | Eugene Lewis
69 rec 982 yards 9 TDs
Calgary | Reggie Begelton*
89 rec 1112 yards 4 TDs
Saskatchewan | Rolan Milligan Jr.*
71 DT 20 ST 0 sck 8 INTs
Winnipeg | Brady Oliveira*
228 car 1318 yards 3 TDs; 54 rec 465 yards 1 TD; 1783 yfs
East
Hamilton | Bo Levi Mitchell*
5026 yards 31 Tds
Toronto | Ka'Deem Carey
191 car 1060 yards 7 TDs; 37 rec 356 yards 1 TD; 1416 yfs
Ottawa | Justin Hardy*
97 rec 1343 yards 5 TDs
Montreal | Tyrice Beverette*
98 DT 9 ST 4 sck 2 INT 4 FF
what do the asterisks mean??
Milligan doesn't deserve an MOP. Nice interceptions numbers and nice ST tackle numbers but neither is a record. Saskatchewan doesn't have the best defence and is actually near the bottom in passing yards allowed per game. Riders record in not outstanding. Seriously don't fall for the media hype most of them are ill informed and don't do any research.
Should be Brady but if not Beverette.
Quote from: Jesse on October 25, 2024, 09:49:56 PMWhat success?
I think the TiCats would have been much worse off without BLM at QB, at least for the latter half of their season. That's just my opinion, though.
And while it's true that BLM was on a losing team that missed the playoffs, that doesn't detract from the fact he's thrown for over 5000 years, far more than any other QB. That's what makes this a tough choice.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on October 25, 2024, 05:23:04 PMHow can it not be Oliveira?
Because SSK is "Canada's Team" and we're all supposed to love and worship them? Does SSK media/etc get more votes than other provinces?
SSK media will probably commit egregious holding on rest-of-Canada media. No flags will be thrown. Will be upheld on review.
Quote from: Cool Spot on October 25, 2024, 08:49:30 PMIn the west, it's Brady Oliveira vs Bo Levi Mitchell in the east. Of the two, I think BLM is a better pick because his #'s are head-and-shoulders better than other QB's, whereas I don't think I can say the same as Oliveira. The one caveat is that Oliveria is critical to the success of the Bombers, but I guess BLM is to the TiCats as well.
Before HAM started winning, they were stinky and BLM got many many huge stats in garbage time of lost games when D's were in prevent. LOTS of stats.
If you don't lead your team to wins, what do the stats matter?
BLM only found his mojo when it was too late and the season was mostly lost. Should that count for much?
Also, why award MOP to a guy who barely held onto his job going into '24? Most people wanted him gone. He may not even be around to start '25 because many don't think he has what it takes to win cups anymore. Who awards MOP for that?
Quote from: dd on October 25, 2024, 10:39:27 PMwhat do the asterisks mean??
Unanimous decision. No one voted for anyone else.
If Brady doesn't get it in the West, I'd give it to Begelton. CGY would have been even more doomed without him. Best talent and heart player on that team. Any of the young players arguing with him about how the game should be played need to (metaphorically) smacked upside the head. If they had a team full of Begeltons, they'd be fighting for first.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 25, 2024, 11:07:17 PMBefore HAM started winning, they were stinky and BLM got many many huge stats in garbage time of lost games when D's were in prevent. LOTS of stats.
If you don't lead your team to wins, what do the stats matter?
BLM only found his mojo when it was too late and the season was mostly lost. Should that count for much?
Also, why award MOP to a guy who barely held onto his job going into '24? Most people wanted him gone. He may not even be around to start '25 because many don't think he has what it takes to win cups anymore. Who awards MOP for that?
Some people say that win-loss records aren't a quarterback stat.
I disagree but I dont get a vote.
Quote from: Cool Spot on October 25, 2024, 08:49:30 PMI did some quick math on who has won the CFL MOP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFL%27s_Most_Outstanding_Player_Award) over the last 70 years:
- QB, 42 (60%)
- RB, 16 (23%)
- WR, 7 (10%)
- SB, 2 (3%)
- TE, 1 (1.4%)
- LB, 1 (1.4%)
- DB, 1 (1.4%)
So, based on this, there's a >95% chance it'll be a player on offense. The most likely candidates are QB and RB, as while the WR #'s this year are impressive, I'm not sure they're as outstanding as Brandon Banks in 2019, Chad Owens in 2012, Geroy Simon in 2006, or Milt Stegall in 2002.
That leaves RB vs QB.
In the west, it's Brady Oliveira vs Bo Levi Mitchell in the east. Of the two, I think BLM is a better pick because his #'s are head-and-shoulders better than other QB's, whereas I don't think I can say the same as Oliveira. The one caveat is that Oliveria is critical to the success of the Bombers, but I guess BLM is to the TiCats as well.
BLM plays on the worst team in the league, he's had no success. And I'd be interested in how many yards BLM put up against the Wpg's, Montreal and Sask's of the league vs the Stampeders and Redblacks, I think his numbers and inflated/were racked up in meaningless games. He doesn't strike me as an MOP candidate, he was lucky just to start this year.
The 2 defensive nominee's I think merit getting the award, both Bev and Milligan, would be nice if they were the East and West finalists, as really, there isn't any eye popping stats from the offensive guys.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 25, 2024, 11:07:17 PMBefore HAM started winning, they were stinky and BLM got many many huge stats in garbage time of lost games when D's were in prevent. LOTS of stats.
If you don't lead your team to wins, what do the stats matter?
BLM only found his mojo when it was too late and the season was mostly lost. Should that count for much?
Also, why award MOP to a guy who barely held onto his job going into '24? Most people wanted him gone. He may not even be around to start '25 because many don't think he has what it takes to win cups anymore. Who awards MOP for that?
For all those swayed by the stats, there should be a 'garbage time' stat and they'd see BLM feasted on games that didn't really matter. He is no MOP and it would be a crime if he gets it
Quote from: dd on October 26, 2024, 01:10:21 AMFor all those swayed by the stats, there should be a 'garbage time' stat and they'd see BLM feasted on games that didn't really matter. He is no MOP and it would be a crime if he gets it
There should 100% be a garbage time stat break-out. I wonder if Junkie or PFF keep track of that.
If you're always down 21 by mid 3rd Q, then every stat by an O should have an asterisk on it. It's easy to get unlimited 8 yard completions when the D is 20Y back.
Milligan doesn't play on an outstanding defense and Saskatchewan is among the worst teams in the CFL in passing yards. 8 picks is nice but hey Houston had 7 last season and Gainey had 10 in 2017 and neither was even West DPOY. Brady is leading the league in rushing, has over 1700 yards from scrimmage and has been the absolute engine of our team and a key in our teams success. Take Brady off of Winnipeg and how many games do the Bombers win. Now take Milligan off the Riders and how many fewer games do they win?
BLM threw for 1400 more yards than the next best QB in yards and 8 more passing TD's than the next best in TD's. He's a great comeback story.
Brady O is the best RB in the league, but he rushed for a couple of hundred less yards than last year and 6 less TD's for 17th place in the league this year.
Quote from: TBURGESS on October 26, 2024, 03:23:02 PMBLM threw for 1400 more yards than the next best QB in yards and 8 more passing TD's than the next best in TD's. He's a great comeback story.
Brady O is the best RB in the league, but he rushed for a couple of hundred less yards than last year and 6 less TD's for 17th place in the league this year.
So you would vote for BLM?
I would have had Nick Anderson as Edmonton's mop vs Lewis....Lewis had a very average season and certainly not worth the big dough they're paying him.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 26, 2024, 03:38:57 PMSo you would vote for BLM?
For MOP yes. I'd vote for Brady as MOC.
I can't vote for a QB whose team has been as bad as the Ti-cats.
Any QB in the league would throw for more yards and TDs when constantly playing from behind and getting soft defensive coverage in the 4th quarters. It's smoke and mirrors numbers.
Brady did nothing to help his MOP chances today. What were his stats? Probably really bad. And there were times we really needed him to get some extra yards. Too bad, because it may be these week 21 games that clinch it in voters' minds.
Milligan didn't do squat either though (was he playing?).
I don't think the semi-final games count towards the voting, at least they shouldn't because our better record means we don't play them! Unless the SF and DFs both count... because they don't announce the winners until GC week. But voting may be done before then.
Bottom line: not sure we even win the MOP in the W, and overall it's looking like garbage-time Bo will clinch it. Plus, everyone loves a story: BLM is a story. Brady isn't a story this season.
Quote from: TBURGESS on October 26, 2024, 03:23:02 PMBLM threw for 1400 more yards than the next best QB in yards and 8 more passing TD's than the next best in TD's. He's a great comeback story.
Brady O is the best RB in the league, but he rushed for a couple of hundred less yards than last year and 6 less TD's for 17th place in the league this year.
Big deal...injuries played alot into that, VAJ would have walked away with the passing yards and TD's had he not been injured, Collaros was out a game, Brown sat out games due to injury as did Fajardo.
BLM racked up a ton of his yards when the Ticats were so far behind, the other team subbed in 2nd stringers and was in prevent D. His stats don't sway me one bit, he's still a chump. Poor Hamilton is going to stick with him next year and everyone will see them suck again!!!
Quote from: TBURGESS on October 26, 2024, 03:23:02 PMBLM threw for 1400 more yards than the next best QB in yards and 8 more passing TD's than the next best in TD's. He's a great comeback story.
Brady O is the best RB in the league, but he rushed for a couple of hundred less yards than last year and 6 less TD's for 17th place in the league this year.
He has to compete against himself? I think the award you are thinking of is Most Improved player (if such a thing existed), then BLM for sure. Bombers finished first and once again rode Brady to the tough wins. He has my vote.
Quote from: Waffler on October 27, 2024, 02:40:25 PMHe has to compete against himself? I think the award you are thinking of is Most Improved player (if such a thing existed), then BLM for sure. Bombers finished first and once again rode Brady to the tough wins. He has my vote.
In Brady's case... yes. Even better stats last year didn't = MOP.
Quote from: TBURGESS on October 27, 2024, 03:56:53 PMIn Brady's case... yes. Even better stats last year didn't = MOP.
As usual you make very little sense. It is MOP of this year not MOP against last year's nominees of MOP, just to help you out a bit.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on October 27, 2024, 07:31:26 PMAs usual you make very little sense. It is MOP of this year not MOP against last year's nominees of MOP, just to help you out a bit.
If you don't think voters are going to compare Brady to last year, you're the one who isn't making any sense.
Brady
Quote from: TBURGESS on October 27, 2024, 08:17:44 PMIf you don't think voters are going to compare Brady to last year, you're the one who isn't making any sense.
Can't say I agree. Voters are going to compare the West nominee to the East nominee.
Quote from: dd on October 27, 2024, 02:40:54 AMBLM racked up a ton of his yards when the Ticats were so far behind, the other team subbed in 2nd stringers and was in prevent D. His stats don't sway me one bit
What about the "story" angle I mentioned? Media & TSN love a "story". Brady being MOP doesn't give a story.
It's literally just a humdrum ho-hum normal Brady year, basically exactly as expected. Worse!... because he got almost no TDs, which for a key O weapon may preclude him from winning. Doubly worse because he's the highest paid RB by miles, and thus is "expected" to get the most yards, etc.
BLM MOP gives TSN a great story: washed up part-time TSN panelist who stunk for 2-3 seasons suddenly learns to be good again and redeems himself. Yes, half of it was in garbage time, but only us here are fretting about that: the average fan won't know or care about it, and the media won't inform them. It'll ruin their "story"...
P.S. I will add one thing that should work in Brady's favor: he's won the rushing title with a clearly subpar OL, and one that was down to 3rd stringers and late-round DPs early/mid-year. If I'm WFC or Bomber media, I'm playing up that aspect -- respectfully of course, because this
is a diss on the OL!
The award isn't about a 'story', its about a player who is worthy of the award. BLM isn't. Sentimental because of the adversity he faced this year, but still, his team was terrible and a large portion of his stats, which everyone seems to be glomming onto , including TSN, was in games where the outcome was already decided and the defending team was just playing out the string knowing the Ticats had no chance in winning the game. That is not MOP worthy.
Quote from: dd on October 28, 2024, 02:01:04 AMThe award isn't about a 'story', its about a player who is worthy of the award.
It's the
media that does the bulk of the voting. Media is nothing
but story.
Yes, it's not
all about "story", but you're wrong if you don't think story doesn't factor into it. If you have 2 guys and they are roughly equal in other things, and you are having trouble deciding, then you choose the guy that has the "story".
Quote from: dd on October 25, 2024, 10:39:27 PMwhat do the asterisks mean??
Pretty sure that means it's a unanimous nomination.
Oliviera got only 35 rushing yards, 46 total.
Milligan sat.
Its a toss up, for sure, both fueled their team's success.
Beverette added a sack and 4 tackles, not sure its enough to eclipse whoever wins the west.
I think its Oliviera, but he might get the "already getting MOC" bias again.
Quote from: TBURGESS on October 27, 2024, 08:17:44 PMIf you don't think voters are going to compare Brady to last year, you're the one who isn't making any sense.
You're out to lunch. Your reality is jaded, this is your problem not ours. Thank god you don't have a vote.
Bo played on a loser team. If he hauled them into the playoffs I could see it maybe, but not now. Comeback player of the year for sure.
I didn't study him close enough this season unfortunately. Could he throw a deep ball again or just short to intermediate stuff? His shoulder looked shot for several Seasons and was
Nowhere the player he once was because of that. Thought he was done like khari jones at the end of his career with a limp noodle. So Just wondering if he returned to his old form or Hamilton just adjusted their offence around his Limitations now.
Bo led the league in YAB yardage. Yards after beatdown.
That's all. He never made them competitive, and only got back onto the field because the guy they pulled him for got injured.
No award gets given based on a single stat line.
This year, Mitchell passed for 5451 yards. Previous MOPs (who are QBs) yards passed:
- Chad Kelly (2023) - 4123
- Zach Collaros (2022) - 4252
- Zach Collaros (2021) - 4183 (shortened year)
- Bo Levi Mitchell (2018) - 5119
- Mike Reilly (2017) - 5830
- Bo Levi Mitchell (2016) - 5377
- Henry Burris (2015) - 5703
- Travis Lulay (2011) - 4815
- Henry Burris (2010) - 4945
- Anthony Calvillo (2009) - 4639
- Anthony Calvillo (2008) - 5633
I didn't include completion %, but Mitchell's this year was 68.4% and is similar to the MOP players in those other years.
I can't really speak towards whether or not yards were earned in garbage time, fair enough. But I'm also not sure that's a disqualifier because Calgary's Jake Meier didn't run up the stats, and Calgary had an even worse record than Hamilton.
Quote from: ichabod_crane on October 28, 2024, 06:30:03 PMBo played on a loser team. If he hauled them into the playoffs I could see it maybe, but not now. Comeback player of the year for sure.
I didn't study him close enough this season unfortunately. Could he throw a deep ball again or just short to intermediate stuff? His shoulder looked shot for several Seasons and was
Nowhere the player he once was because of that. Thought he was done like khari jones at the end of his career with a limp noodle. So Just wondering if he returned to his old form or Hamilton just adjusted their offence around his Limitations now.
BLM has shown huge improvement this year over the last 2-3 seasons and is now throwing the ball beautifully and quickly once again, that's why I suspect he's done stem cell therapy which is quite popular in his home state of Texas. If Hamilton offered to trade Bo to Wpg. just for this playoff run, it would certainly be worth considering starting him in front of Zach.
If Brady O had the same stats this year, but we didn't make the playoffs, he'd still be MOC and in the running for MOP.
Quote from: ichabod_crane on October 28, 2024, 06:30:03 PMI didn't study him close enough this season unfortunately. Could he throw a deep ball again or just short to intermediate stuff?
BLM had 3-4 games where he was superb (350-500Y, many TDs) without the benefit of garbage time. I don't recall if he was playing "weak" teams though.
He had maybe 4-6 games where he put up good numbers in garbage time.
The other games he didn't do so well, or was benched. Some games he really, really stunk the joint up (lots of INTs, etc).
I would say whatever he put in his Wheaties this year worked wonders. Gone was the noodle arm. The accuracy got dialed in for the good games and he was as good as any QB out there. He could throw anywhere on the field.
More importantly, his brain was working again and he was making better decisions, especially when he had time to go through his reads.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 28, 2024, 07:11:11 PMIf Hamilton offered to trade Bo to Wpg. just for this playoff run, it would certainly be worth considering starting him in front of Zach.
Trade deadline passed. And even if we wanted to circumvent it by HAM releasing him first, they can't, as vet release day has passed.
If in some parallel universe we could make this happen, ya go for it, as Wilson likely will not win anything if Zach goes down. But normally I would not be interested in BLM as he'll eventually (soon) revert to his garbage form.
So any new "insurance" QB will have to come from the couch, and I don't think there's anyone there now. So we roll with what we have and pray, just like SSK (and probably TOR, and maybe BC?) is doing. Only MTL (and maybe BC?) is sitting pretty with 2 legit #1 QBs on the AR.
Quote from: Cool Spot on October 28, 2024, 06:51:53 PMThis year, Mitchell passed for 5451 yards. Previous MOPs (who are QBs) yards passed:
- 1E Chad Kelly (2023) - 4123
- 1W Zach Collaros (2022) - 4252
- 1W Zach Collaros (2021) - 4183 (shortened year)
- 2W Bo Levi Mitchell (2018) - 5119
- 3W Mike Reilly (2017) - 5830
- 1W Bo Levi Mitchell (2016) - 5377
- 1E Henry Burris (2015) - 5703
- 1W Travis Lulay (2011) - 4815
- 1W Henry Burris (2010) - 4945
- 1E Anthony Calvillo (2009) - 4639
- 1E Anthony Calvillo (2008) - 5633
I see what you're saying, but I've tweaked your list above by adding in where each QB's team ended in the standings that year.
Note:
1. Every single winner above made the playoffs.
2. All but two of them won their division in the regular season.
3. The biggest outlier, Mike Reilly, was doing his "voted toughest player in the league" era on a not-so-great team, and was basically impossible to bring down when scrambling and escaping to get yards. And he still got more passing yards than BLM (and probably 400Y additional rushing if I had to guess).
So, precedent says BLM's season would have to, on the whole, have looked better than Mike Reilly's. He would have to have been as outstanding. I remember 2017 and how EDM always broke our hearts as Reilly would just greased-pig his way out of any sort of contain or pressure we brought. And he repeated it to our embarrassment in our first home WSF in ages.
If 2024 BLM wasn't better than 2017 Reilly, then I don't think they will give it to him, because that would be new precedent. UNLESS the rest of the entire field is so weak there's literally no other choice... even with the "story" aspect.
And maybe a "woe is my early life" hard-luck D player or something will have an even better story we just don't know about yet.
P.S. If everything is equal, including lack of "story" quality, maybe people will vote on likeability. And Brady is much-loved league-wide for his Northern abused dog work. I've read many team forums where random people will say "I hate the Bumblers, but I gotta like Brady for his dog rescue". Now do BLM... universally hated by everyone in BC, EDM, SSK and WPG (and probably TOR, MTL and OTT too).
There's always another QB. Where did Kelly come from?