I missed that play. Anyone got video on that. Interesting that he gets suspended but Brown didn't after taking out 3 QB's this season.
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/the-cfl-on-tsn-panel-reacts-to-williams-hit-on-pimpleton-at-the-~3002110
I don't think he started the play thinking he was going to pile drive him but man the Riders are constantly doing stupid stuff and then acting flabbergasted that there are repercussions.
https://x.com/JDunk12/status/1841477536196272390
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on October 03, 2024, 09:21:50 PMhttps://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/the-cfl-on-tsn-panel-reacts-to-williams-hit-on-pimpleton-at-the-~3002110
I don't think he started the play thinking he was going to pile drive him but man the Riders are constantly doing stupid stuff and then acting flabbergasted that there are repercussions.
Looking at some of the posts on the riders forum gave me a good laugh.
At first watch it's a suspension. No question.
That was an ugly tackle and totally called for any reason. I'd call it intent not an accidental infraction. The receiver was nearly on the ground on his own.
What's more surprising now is that it's only a 1 game suspension. Will he appeal or sit out this week?
The suspension came today and their game is Saturday. That question should be answered tomorrow. Appealing that would show no remorse IMO.
If he does appeal this is game 16. How long will the appeal take? That's the next issue.
If he appeals the Riders should suspend him on their own. Total BS.
He could have broken his neck. That was lucky it didn't turn out way worse.
AND he took a swing at someone?
Wild.
Mace has lost control.
They HAVE to suspend him, if they merely fine him, Rider fans pay it and it's just like no penalty at all.
Good to see the league step up on dirty play.
Quote from: Waffler on October 03, 2024, 10:53:05 PMThey HAVE to suspend him, if they merely fine him, Rider fans pay it and it's just like no penalty at all.
Good to see the league step up on dirty play.
Rider fans might crowd fund a pay check for a suspension just the same as for a fine. A fine is often 1/2 a game check. A suspension would be 100%. I don't know how their fans will view this suspension. Just saying he may still get some cash. The only difference is he doesn't play a game.
I've always had the same issue with suspensions in that any appeal takes significant time. Look at the S. Lemon problem which took 9 weeks +.
An appeal could result in the suspended game not being applied until 2025. I don't know if he'll appeal but that's an issue that needs to be resolved.
I'd prefer that a suspension is immediate. Appeal and win, then you get paid. That's not perfect since the team pays while losing that player for a game etc.
Quote from: Blue In BC on October 04, 2024, 12:16:25 AMRider fans might crowd fund a pay check for a suspension just the same as for a fine. A fine is often 1/2 a game check. A suspension would be 100%. I don't know how their fans will view this suspension. Just saying he may still get some cash. The only difference is he doesn't play a game.
I've always had the same issue with suspensions in that any appeal takes significant time. Look at the S. Lemon problem which took 9 weeks +.
An appeal could result in the suspended game not being applied until 2025. I don't know if he'll appeal but that's an issue that needs to be resolved.
I'd prefer that a suspension is immediate. Appeal and win, then you get paid. That's not perfect since the team pays while losing that player for a game etc.
They have rights that the CFL and CFLPA has agreed to. There's no way around a legal appeal process. And I'm not sure there should be.
Quote from: Jesse on October 04, 2024, 12:23:14 AMThey have rights that the CFL and CFLPA has agreed to. There's no way around a legal appeal process. And I'm not sure there should be.
I know that. However, the CFL has or should have rights as well. He appeared before the commish this week to state his case. It is not an arbitrary concept. I'm not sure I recall a suspension being over turned. At best it's reduced from 3 or more games.
I guess the question is about rights and my suggestion eliminates any loss of income in theory. I don't know that any player has a right to play per se.
Should a player ( Brown ) who takes out 3 QB's in about 9 weeks be allowed to appeal and delay a suspension if that had happened in his case.
Lemon was suspended permanently for violating the code of conduct. That's in the CBA too. It took 9 weeks but that was upheld again and applied. Either they had evidence which obviously they did, so there is no grounds for an actual appeal aside from " rights " in the CBA. That's just nuts.
Where do we draw the line. What about the rights of the player that may suffer long term or permanent injury. Will Pimpleton play this week?
Garbage play by a garbage player on a garbage team. Saskatchewan has zero integrity, I don' know how their fans can feel good about cheering for players that lack integrity and class...as that is a reflection of the fan base as well who openly accepts and cheers for such plays. The football gods will get them
Quote from: Jesse on October 04, 2024, 12:23:14 AMThey have rights that the CFL and CFLPA has agreed to. There's no way around a legal appeal process. And I'm not sure there should be.
For complex off-field issues, sure. However, for an in-whistle on-field infraction with 5 camera angles and 30k witnesses, perhaps there should be a different process. They already interviewed/grilled Williams to get his side of the story before suspending him. There is literally nothing more anyone can add nor any new epiphany that can be revealed... and as such, the appeals door should be shut.
It's like a fumble that command auto-reviews. After they auto-review it, there is zero reason to challenge the fumble aspect.
Quote from: Blue In BC on October 04, 2024, 12:41:20 AMI know that. However, the CFL has or should have rights as well. He appeared before the commish this week to state his case. It is not an arbitrary concept. I'm not sure I recall a suspension being over turned. At best it's reduced from 3 or more games.
I guess the question is about rights and my suggestion eliminates any loss of income in theory. I don't know that any player has a right to play per se.
Should a player ( Brown ) who takes out 3 QB's in about 9 weeks be allowed to appeal and delay a suspension if that had happened in his case.
Lemon was suspended permanently for violating the code of conduct. That's in the CBA too. It took 9 weeks but that was upheld again and applied. Either they had evidence which obviously they did, so there is no grounds for an actual appeal aside from " rights " in the CBA. That's just nuts.
Where do we draw the line. What about the rights of the player that may suffer long term or permanent injury. Will Pimpleton play this week?
I heard Mace will not be appealing the suspension due to the importance of the limited games left in the season, so he should sit out this weekend and be done with it.
Mace says "we don't coach like that" on camera. But what if he goes into the locker room and highfives Williams and Brown for destroying opponents?
Make some team punishments for unusually frequent fines/suspensions. Like 5 fines in a season the team loses their 4th RDP. 6 fines, their 4th and 3rd. 7: 4,3&2 DP. You get the idea.
Suspensions count the same as 2 fines, per game suspended.
Tweak the final numbers as appropriate so only teams that clearly aren't reining in their players are getting dinged. Everyone gets enough "normal" mulligans.
SSK clearly isn't practicing what they publicly preach. They can say they are all they want: the proof is in the penalty pudding.
Maybe with team-hurting penalties the staff will finally start preaching the correct messages. Problem-child Marinos will also be cut a lot sooner, too.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 04, 2024, 02:11:57 AMMace says "we don't coach like that" on camera. But what if he goes into the locker room and highfives Williams and Brown for destroying opponents?
Make some team punishments for unusually frequent fines/suspensions. Like 5 fines in a season the team loses their 4th RDP. 6 fines, their 4th and 3rd. 7: 4,3&2 DP. You get the idea.
Suspensions count the same as 2 fines, per game suspended.
Tweak the final numbers as appropriate so only teams that clearly aren't reining in their players are getting dinged. Everyone gets enough "normal" mulligans.
SSK clearly isn't practicing what they publicly preach. They can say they are all they want: the proof is in the penalty pudding.
Maybe with team-hurting penalties the staff will finally start preaching the correct messages. Problem-child Marinos will also be cut a lot sooner, too.
Teams (New Orleans Saints) have been guilty of putting bounties out on certain players in the NFL and college level, especially QBs, so encouraging a player to cause harm to a fellow athlete is not all that unusual. It certainly wouldn't be a foreign concept to many players now playing in the CFL.
Quote from: Blue In BC on October 04, 2024, 12:41:20 AMI know that. However, the CFL has or should have rights as well. He appeared before the commish this week to state his case. It is not an arbitrary concept. I'm not sure I recall a suspension being over turned. At best it's reduced from 3 or more games.
I guess the question is about rights and my suggestion eliminates any loss of income in theory. I don't know that any player has a right to play per se.
Should a player ( Brown ) who takes out 3 QB's in about 9 weeks be allowed to appeal and delay a suspension if that had happened in his case.
Lemon was suspended permanently for violating the code of conduct. That's in the CBA too. It took 9 weeks but that was upheld again and applied. Either they had evidence which obviously they did, so there is no grounds for an actual appeal aside from " rights " in the CBA. That's just nuts.
Where do we draw the line. What about the rights of the player that may suffer long term or permanent injury. Will Pimpleton play this week?
The CFL's rights and the "line" are the ability to suspend or fine the player.
I will agree that there should be a way to expediate the process in certain instances; but other than feelings, is there a reason that a suspension this week is better than a suspension next week after an appeal?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 04, 2024, 01:04:03 AMFor complex off-field issues, sure. However, for an in-whistle on-field infraction with 5 camera angles and 30k witnesses, perhaps there should be a different process. They already interviewed/grilled Williams to get his side of the story before suspending him. There is literally nothing more anyone can add nor any new epiphany that can be revealed... and as such, the appeals door should be shut.
It's like a fumble that command auto-reviews. After they auto-review it, there is zero reason to challenge the fumble aspect.
As fans, it would be great if things were that simple.
As players, agents, and league officials, you can't suspend the rights of a player "sometimes". They either have the right to appeal or they don't.
Quote from: Jesse on October 04, 2024, 12:02:23 PMThe CFL's rights and the "line" are the ability to suspend or fine the player.
I will agree that there should be a way to expediate the process in certain instances; but other than feelings, is there a reason that a suspension this week is better than a suspension next week after an appeal?
It's a question of whether an arbitration can even be held before the end of the season. As I pointed out it took 9 games before Lemon was finally not allowed to play. That was not the usual time it takes but it seldom happens by the 2nd week.
Also note that teams have suspended a player themselves without an appeal. IIRC, the Riders did that to Marino once?
Either way we'll see how this develops and whether the suspension is served before the season concludes.
EDIT: Williams shows as coming off the Rider AR this week. So that settle that issue of appealing.
How could an appeal of this reqult in anything but an increased fine / suspension. This was about as dangerous a play as happens in football. Lifting a player up and dropping him on his neck?
Yes, CBA allows for an appeal. The appeal should be made and adjudicated before the next game. No reason it can't be in the days of ZOOM.
Quote from: theaardvark on October 04, 2024, 06:53:13 PMHow could an appeal of this reqult in anything but an increased fine / suspension. This was about as dangerous a play as happens in football. Lifting a player up and dropping him on his neck?
Yes, CBA allows for an appeal. The appeal should be made and adjudicated before the next game. No reason it can't be in the days of ZOOM.
Things should absolutely be done faster than they are. But such is the way of the CFL.
Quote from: theaardvark on October 04, 2024, 06:53:13 PMHow could an appeal of this reqult in anything but an increased fine / suspension. This was about as dangerous a play as happens in football. Lifting a player up and dropping him on his neck?
Yes, CBA allows for an appeal. The appeal should be made and adjudicated before the next game. No reason it can't be in the days of ZOOM.
As mentioned above, Mace has accepted the penalty and will not be appealing the suspension.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 04, 2024, 07:33:17 PMAs mentioned above, Mace has accepted the penalty and will not be appealing the suspension.
Point of clarification: it's not technically Mace's decision. The suspended player decides if he will appeal. It's his money and his choice under the CBA. Mace I'm sure has influence as his coach but if Williams was adamant he wanted to appeal he could and there's nothing Mace or anyone else could do about it.
At this point they should start fining the coach to get the message through.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on October 04, 2024, 09:19:56 PMAt this point they should start fining the coach to get the message through.
No one cares about OOP money unless it's also a SMS hit. I would totally be fine with teams getting SMS hits after too many fines/suspensions... and/or lose DPs too.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on October 04, 2024, 09:11:24 PMPoint of clarification: it's not technically Mace's decision. The suspended player decides if he will appeal. It's his money and his choice under the CBA. Mace I'm sure has influence as his coach but if Williams was adamant he wanted to appeal he could and there's nothing Mace or anyone else could do about it.
And, if he appealed against Mace's wishes, you wanna bet he's off the roster for the next game?
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on October 04, 2024, 09:11:24 PMPoint of clarification: it's not technically Mace's decision. The suspended player decides if he will appeal. It's his money and his choice under the CBA. Mace I'm sure has influence as his coach but if Williams was adamant he wanted to appeal he could and there's nothing Mace or anyone else could do about it.
If he's a smart player, he'll think and do whatever his coach tells him to. :D