Better late than never.
https://3downnation.com/2024/09/16/cfl-levies-max-fine-against-saskatchewan-roughriders-dl-miles-brown-for-low-hit-on-chris-streveler/
The CFL also levied two other fines, fining B.C. linebacker Ayinde Eley for a high hit on Montreal receiver Jose Barbon and Edmonton receiver Eugene Lewis for a crackback block on Calgary defensive back Branden Dozier. The amounts of the fines were not disclosed.
Yay! Justice is served. There goes Riderfans' theories the hit was perfectly clean and shouldn't have even been flagged! Can't wait to hear the spin on this one there! I wonder how many will change their tune... (hint: one? zero?)
A message has been sent that you need to do everything in your power to ease up and avoid QB damage, and that Brown didn't do that.
It's not as strong as a 2-game suspension would have been, but it's probably good enough for now. I should hope when he maims his 4th QB, though, that he'll get a 3-game.
Very strange the league took an extra 4 days to figure out these fines? I'm not sure I've ever seen that before. Perhaps they wanted to study the Brown hit at length to ensure they got it "right".
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 17, 2024, 01:31:19 AMVery strange the league took an extra 4 days to figure out these fines? I'm not sure I've ever seen that before. Perhaps they wanted to study the Brown hit at length to ensure they got it "right".
Perhaps Rider management or the CFLPA protested the decision which delayed the announcement.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 17, 2024, 02:01:39 AMPerhaps Rider management or the CFLPA protested the decision which delayed the announcement.
That would also be strange? Teams & CFLPA get advance notice of these decisions?
Usually the sequence would be: 1. announcement, 2. appeal; if they didn't like the decision.
What if one of the decisions was a suspension? Some of these players played this past weekend. Announcing late could have affected those games. Maybe the league felt they had the extra leeway because none were suspensions? Still, it's all very odd.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 17, 2024, 01:30:22 AMYay! Justice is served. There goes Riderfans' theories the hit was perfectly clean and shouldn't have even been flagged! Can't wait to hear the spin on this one there! I wonder how many will change their tune... (hint: one? zero?)
A message has been sent that you need to do everything in your power to ease up and avoid QB damage, and that Brown didn't do that.
It's not as strong as a 2-game suspension would have been, but it's probably good enough for now. I should hope when he maims his 4th QB, though, that he'll get a 3-game.
I took a quick peek over on their forum and OMG they are completely unhinged. Like talking Tecno conspiracy stuff (no offense). Multiple threads about boycotting the league etc lmaooo
Where there's smoke, there's fire.
I'm happy with the fine but slightly surprised by it and the wording. I thought it was less bad than the LDC hit and I don't think they used the term "max fine" on the LDC head shot. Either way, if Riders fans are angry that generally means something good happened.
Better late than never. No idea why it took an extra few days, though.
Miles Brown is not only a turd, but a poor one. :D
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on September 17, 2024, 01:29:20 PMI'm happy with the fine but slightly surprised by it and the wording. I thought it was less bad than the LDC hit and I don't think they used the term "max fine" on the LDC head shot. Either way, if Riders fans are angry that generally means something good happened.
Probably has something to do with the fact that he just pulled an even worse stunt the week before.
Honestly, if we didn't know the guys name before the BB, I would have some grace for this. But the precedent was set and he made his own bed and earned his reputation.
Quote from: blue_or_die on September 17, 2024, 06:27:32 PMProbably has something to do with the fact that he just pulled an even worse stunt the week before.
Honestly, if we didn't know the guys name before the BB, I would have some grace for this. But the precedent was set and he made his own bed and earned his reputation.
He also didn't show any signs of remorse or respect to the player he crippled, in fact he was belligerently defiant. Maybe should check Brown for roid rage, drug testing, Mon, Weds, Fri. and twice on Sun.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on September 17, 2024, 01:29:20 PMI'm happy with the fine but slightly surprised by it and the wording. I thought it was less bad than the LDC hit and I don't think they used the term "max fine" on the LDC head shot. Either way, if Riders fans are angry that generally means something good happened.
They always say if it's the max fine. Otherwise they don't specify the amount. (Which is a bit funny, because by saying some are max they are specifying the amount!)
I'm pretty sure the Zach hit was max fine too, though I don't know the exact wording.
He
didn't get fined for the Dru take-out.
If he does it again, even if more "innocent" than the Strev hit, he'll be suspended. Now the issue is repeated QB-takeouts, not (necessarily) "dirtiness". He cannot keep sending QBs to the IR. He's a nobody: the QBs are valuable.
Riderfans created a gofundme to pay Brown's fine:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/miles-brown-snack-fund
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 17, 2024, 10:32:07 PMRiderfans created a gofundme to pay Brown's fine:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/miles-brown-snack-fund
Sad. Just further points out the futility of fines. Ejection is what is needed. It's just a rule change and after that no one can grieve it.
Quote from: Waffler on September 17, 2024, 10:40:49 PMSad. Just further points out the futility of fines. Ejection is what is needed. It's just a rule change and after that no one can grieve it.
I would go further. If a player is injured sufficiently to miss games, there needs to be a suspension.
The penalty for any infraction is well defined, and ref's have quite the leeway to call misconduct fouls, which can lead to ejections.
Fines after the fact are disciplinar and as they become more common will discourage behaviour that leads to them.
While injury should not be a factor in a penalty or fine, it seems to be with the fines, and I'm OK with that. When a player gets hit in the wallet, especially for half a game cheque, for something avoidable and unnecessary, you will see players actually trying to avoid taking the chance at being tagged.
There are going to be accidents, and players are going to get injured. I think the CFL is doing a pretty good job at limiting that, as much as we complain.
Quote from: ModAdmin on September 18, 2024, 12:22:17 AMI would go further. If a player is injured sufficiently to miss games, there needs to be a suspension.
I agree. In my mind, brown should be suspended as long as strev is out, that would be a fair suspension. And if strev can't play again then brown never plays again. That type of policy would eliminate the cheap shots right here and now. And don't give me this was an accident or he didn't mean it, he purposely went after his knee and grappled with it. It was totally on purpose . If he wanted to avoid the hit, he could have pushed off stress leg, instead he grabbed for it. Suspend the thug
Quote from: theaardvark on September 18, 2024, 02:14:07 AMThe penalty for any infraction is well defined, and ref's have quite the leeway to call misconduct fouls, which can lead to ejections.
Misconducts can only be flagged after the whistle. So none of Brown's 3 QB take-outs would qualify.
So ejection for in-whistle plays can only come from calling a "grade 2" penalty, which has very strict definitions.
Of course, they could make the rules stricter in the off-season, if they really want to deal with these hits.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 18, 2024, 02:14:07 AMThere are going to be accidents, and players are going to get injured. I think the CFL is doing a pretty good job at limiting that, as much as we complain.
Are they though? Basically every franchise QB except Maier has been injured this season. Much the same as the previous 2 seasons. None this season were non-contact. So all were due to hits.
Some are legit and a part of normal play. Some are not. It's those latter ones we could possibly reduce in number.
MOS says at the end of Sep 17 presser regarding the Brown hit on Strev: "athletically you can do something different there, you can make a different choice".
https://www.bluebombers.com/2024/09/17/coach-oshea-september-17-3/
Dovetails precisely with what I've said: the worst of it (if not all of it) was avoidable. Tait points out how it's not easy, and it isn't.
SSK Mace pressers this week completely avoided the topic. Haha, too afraid to prolong the controversy. Tells you all you need to know about their thoughts on the matter. Riderfans should take note.
Quote from: dd on September 18, 2024, 03:01:09 AMI agree. In my mind, brown should be suspended as long as strev is out, that would be a fair suspension. And if strev can't play again then brown never plays again. That type of policy would eliminate the cheap shots right here and now. And don't give me this was an accident or he didn't mean it, he purposely went after his knee and grappled with it. It was totally on purpose . If he wanted to avoid the hit, he could have pushed off stress leg, instead he grabbed for it. Suspend the thug
I don't think it being tied to injury is fair at all. A dirty hit is a dirty hit regardless of whether the player is injured or can walk it off and play the next down.
There just needs to be escalating penalties so if a guy like Brown has multiple infractions there's an avenue to eject or suspend him.
Rider fans have set up a Gofundme account to pay his fine. Figures.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 18, 2024, 02:14:07 AMThe penalty for any infraction is well defined, and ref's have quite the leeway to call misconduct fouls, which can lead to ejections.
Too much leeway. They NEVER call ejections except for fighting. I am saying make the penalty AUTOMATIC ejection. It takes the decision out of the ref's hands. And if the refs are still afraid to call it hopefully the command center would not be.
Quote from: Waffler on September 18, 2024, 01:55:18 PMToo much leeway. They NEVER call ejections except for fighting. I am saying make the penalty AUTOMATIC ejection. It takes the decision out of the ref's hands. And if the refs are still afraid to call it hopefully the command center would not be.
Are you suggesting that
every RTP should be an ejection or that that
every RTP that results in an injury should be an ejection?
Gotta love it, now Brown is a repeat offender and next time will undoubtedly be suspended and the icing is we get the rider fans to spend their money on it!
(As well its great that the cfl deemed it an illegal act which is driving their fanbase crazy!Wins all the way around)
I don't see how the league thinks it's a good idea to leave a repeat offender free to take out a fourth QB.
Quote from: TBURGESS on September 18, 2024, 02:14:38 PMAre you suggesting that every RTP should be an ejection or that that every RTP that results in an injury should be an ejection?
EVERY high hit or low hit with force should be automatic ejection. MOS is on record as saying coaching and players will adjust.
Punishment has to fit the crime and protecting QB's is #1. More than fighting, which already is an automatic ejection. It seems Brown and Ssk in general feel they can head hunt with impunity. That has to stop.
Quote from: Waffler on September 18, 2024, 02:49:14 PMEVERY high hit or low hit with force should be automatic ejection. MOS is on record as saying coaching and players will adjust.
Punishment has to fit the crime and protecting QB's is #1. More than fighting, which already is an automatic ejection. It seems Brown and Ssk in general feel they can head hunt with impunity. That has to stop.
I think I'm on board with the head hits but I'm not sure we can or should be ejecting people on low hits. You've got to protect the QB, sure, but there's a line somewhere, surely.
At least we won't have to play them again this season ;)
Quote from: peg_city on September 18, 2024, 03:42:42 PMAt least we won't have to play them again this season ;)
If they meet the Lions in Regina for the WSF then there is a chance we meet them in the WDF. I don't see the Stamps or Elks making the playoffs.
This weekend can push the Elks into 2025 if we start the game on time and play 60 minutes.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 18, 2024, 01:53:06 PMRider fans have set up a Gofundme account to pay his fine. Figures.
Embarrassing. What embarrassing fans.
Quote from: Waffler on September 18, 2024, 02:49:14 PMEVERY high hit or low hit with force should be automatic ejection. MOS is on record as saying coaching and players will adjust.
Punishment has to fit the crime and protecting QB's is #1. More than fighting, which already is an automatic ejection. It seems Brown and Ssk in general feel they can head hunt with impunity. That has to stop.
Brown's hit was neither high (The Collaros one was), late (The Collaros one was) or low (Contact point was above the knees).
Hitting with force is a basic part of football. They're not playing touch.
If Brown releases Strev's legs, then he runs the risk of Strev running away from the hit.
I think what you are actually looking for is in the NFL rules:
QuoteA rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him.
Penalty: For Roughing the Passer: Loss of 15 yards and an automatic first down; disqualification if flagrant
This could/should be incorporated into the CFL rules in the off season to make things clearer.
The problem I see is the definition of the term flagrant. I'm sure you see the Brown hit as flagrant and that Riders fans don't see it as flagrant. One man's flagrant is another man's mistake. The Refs would have to make the decision in real time with a single view from a single angle. No matter what decision they make, half the fans will be upset.
Re: this:
QuoteWinnipeg running back Brady Oliveira said postgame that he didn't believe the hit was dirty, saying it was "probably hard (for Brown) to try and avoid" hitting Streveler. Veteran offensive lineman Patrick Neufeld, who has played against Brown many times since 2022, told 3DownNation that he's not a dirty player.
However, this was the second time Brown has received supplemental discipline for an illegal hit on a Winnipeg quarterback after he knocked Zach Collaros out of the Labour Day Classic with a high hit.
Brown denied being a dirty player when speaking to the media ahead of the annual rivalry rematch, though he has now been the cause of three quarterback injuries this season, also taking out Ottawa's Dru Brown with low contact in Week 10.
Everyone will swear up-and-down that Brown is not a dirty player. Fine. But as the article says, this is the third time this season. To say that he plays hard isn't a defense because
literally everyone plays hard. But
everyone is not injuring QBs 3x in a season.
A player may not be dirty, but when you hurt another team's QB 3x and get fined in all three of those cases, when no one else has, I would think that makes you reckless.
Maybe he is not dirty with the line play but the three hits on QB's all were. It got max fined last time in case anyone is still arguing for some reason. I don't listen to the contrarians, I know a dirty hit when I see it and I want it out of the league. If Miller and MOS hold any sway whatsoever there will be changes in the offseason be that a rule or at Commissioner if he hasn't got the backbone.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 18, 2024, 03:48:46 PMIf they meet the Lions in Regina for the WSF then there is a chance we meet them in the WDF. I don't see the Stamps or Elks making the playoffs.
He was being coy! Read it again
woosh!
Quote from: TBURGESS on September 18, 2024, 05:18:02 PMBrown's hit was neither high (The Collaros one was), late (The Collaros one was) or low (Contact point was above the knees).
Riderfans would tell you Brown was held/pushed (can one be both?) into Strev and it's all Dobson's fault. So according to the NFL rule it wouldn't be a penalty? (I'm not saying they are correct, I'm just saying that's what they say, and the OL was in the picture to some degree.)
The problem with auto-ejection is: do we want Willy ejected a couple of plays into the '21 GC for his tap to Evans' helmet (because he was ducking to escape) that tweaks his neck? He got RTP for that.
It's a tough challenge and there's a lot of grey area.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 18, 2024, 09:24:32 PMRiderfans would tell you Brown was held/pushed (can one be both?) into Strev and it's all Dobson's fault. So according to the NFL rule it wouldn't be a penalty? (I'm not saying they are correct, I'm just saying that's what they say, and the OL was in the picture to some degree.)
The problem with auto-ejection is: do we want Willy ejected a couple of plays into the '21 GC for his tap to Evans' helmet (because he was ducking to escape) that tweaks his neck? He got RTP for that.
It's a tough challenge and there's a lot of grey area.
He was held and hit from behind. According the the CFL rules, that doesn't matter.
If the CFL went to the NFL rules, then Willy's hit wouldn't be a 'flagrant' hit so it wouldn't be a DQ.
Quote from: TBURGESS on September 18, 2024, 09:33:14 PMHe was held and hit from behind. According the the CFL rules, that doesn't matter.
Right, I was referring to the NFL rules. Even by the stricter NFL rule they may not have DQ'd Brown. So in that sense adopting it wouldn't solve this particular situation.
As for defining "flagrant": Does the blow itself have to be flagrant, or is behavior after the main blow taken into account. For example, the Marino/Masoli hit wasn't that big an initial blow, it was the wrapping up and followup that did the most damage... just like Brown/Strev.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 18, 2024, 10:01:30 PMFor example, the Marino/Masoli hit wasn't that big an initial blow, it was the wrapping up and followup that did the most damage... just like Brown/Strev.
Correct. When I watch the play develop you can see where he intentionally applies the force that did enough damage to tear three knee tendons in a big, strong man in peak physical condition standing in a vulnerable position. There was nothing but intent to injure on that play and no one will convince me otherwise. It was as dirty a play as you can make and it ranks right up there with what Marino did to Masoli.
Don't think for a second that had that happened in Regina and Brown incited the Rider fans to cheer the way Marino did they wouldn't have all joined in howling their delight. They are a sick, disgusting organization with sick, disgusting fans that would cheer a dirty play like that.
You watch, Brown will get another one before this season is over. He can't help himself just like Marino couldn't help himself. They are what they are -- Rider scumbags.