Chris Streveler isn't going to be a starter nevermind a back up.He would be possibly be a running back since he likes to run allot, but lately he hasn't been successful doing that as well. He needs to improve his passing game so much. I love his attitude and ability. I just hope when we need him again he can perform better, especially if he does get first team reps at practice.
A) At least 50/50 chance we start Zach next week in which case this isn't as important as it may seem right now.
B) Strev isn't going to be a starter (I'll admit that now), but that's not the question. The question is: can he be a backup for the odd 1-3 weeks Zach is sometimes out for, and get you .500 W/L? I think the answer is yes. He won the other week starting, and he kept us from losing in a bind with a hinky OL tonight!
C) Can we win a GC with Strev as #1 vs MTL? Probably not. But if we're without Zach come the final 1-3 weeks, we'll probably "pull a 2019" and source a "more real" #1 QB for the playoff run.
I'm fine rolling with Strev a few reg season games if that's required. We just have to pray that if Zach ever misses games, they aren't super critical ones. Strev really does give us the best value for our limited SMS $$, and I think he'll be able to surprise fans sometimes.
Who is the 3rd string QB? Maybe throw him a few reps if Collaros is out a game or two. Maybe he at least has an arm to throw a few deep shots to Kenny or Demski. With Streves it's like even a short swing pass he can't even do properly! :(
Yeah, even his running has slowed down a bit. He tried to swing around the end one time and they bottled him all up. It's either plow up the centre or just off tackle for him it seems now. The so-called NFL QB training helped him zippo! Maybe he needed a true QB guru down there to improve his game, but being on some sad sack teams led nowhere.
With Rourke you see the potential there even when he had a few bad games coming back from the NFL. He proved he can still hang with the big guns in that Victoria game.
Really hard to see us doing anything about it during the season.
We ride with Zach. If he's out, I don't think it makes a difference who's behind him.
Quote from: Jesse on September 02, 2024, 02:25:23 PMReally hard to see us doing anything about it during the season.
We ride with Zach. If he's out, I don't think it makes a difference who's behind him.
I think if we lose Zach long term (which doesn't appear to be the case) we trade for a QB like we did with Zach.
Depending what happens down the stretch their could be a couple QBs available, possibilities include: one-team-quarterback Bo Levi, Bethal-Thompson, hey if the Riders keep losing maybe Trevor Harris is dealt. Lots to be decided yet.
You look back now, we should have kept Brown.
Quote from: Bomber Diehard on September 02, 2024, 02:35:41 PMYou look back now, we should have kept Brown.
Hindsight is 20-20 but probably. That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if we fix the offensive line in the offseason if a renewed Collaros comes back next year and puts together a swan song of a season.
Quote from: ichabod_crane on September 02, 2024, 10:03:08 AMWho is the 3rd string QB? Maybe throw him a few reps if Collaros is out a game or two. Maybe he at least has an arm to throw a few deep shots to Kenny or Demski. With Streves it's like even a short swing pass he can't even do properly! :(
Yeah, even his running has slowed down a bit. He tried to swing around the end one time and they bottled him all up. It's either plow up the centre or just off tackle for him it seems now. The so-called NFL QB training helped him zippo! Maybe he needed a true QB guru down there to improve his game, but being on some sad sack teams led nowhere.
With Rourke you see the potential there even when he had a few bad games coming back from the NFL. He proved he can still hang with the big guns in that Victoria game.
Terry Wilson is the 3rd string, very athletic and probably has the best arm of all 3 but he's not likely to get any game time with Strev. standing in the way. Still love Strev. but looking towards next season they need to give game reps. to the QB that is likely to replace Zach as he winds down his career. It should have been Brown but the timing was off and they let him fly out the window.
I don't know why people are just realizing this now, but strev is who he always was, he's a short yardage Qb who runs for first downs that's it. A one trick pony, always has been always will be. Collaros is going nowhere. If it wasn't for the egregious hit 3 steps after he threw the ball, we wouldn't be having this conversation. He ll be fine, we ll be fine
Quote from: Bomber Diehard on September 02, 2024, 02:35:41 PMYou look back now, we should have kept Brown.
Was not really an option, was it? He wanted to be a starter.
Quote from: DM83 on September 02, 2024, 02:55:49 PMThere are a number of real good game managers on teams that should be available if their teams, are unlikely to play.
Toronto has two guys that are potentially available
Hamilton has all three guys
BC has Adams, but likely wouldn't trade him
BC just cut Donelega? Is that his name?
Ottawa . Do they have the aged Injured guy that just came off the injured list?
Edmonton has either starter. Aren't both guys on expiring contracts?
On Winnipeg's style, game managers would be required. Strev should be able to execute, RPO's short passes, QB run or QB draw. In the game he hit a deep in pattern and another curl.
The enigma. Player that could be available is Arbuckle. He at one point was going to be the heir apparent in Calgary. What happened to him?.
It didn't appear Buck was hurt. Then again, once he has one concussion, and the brain starts rattling around and hits the skull, it is really time To stop playing. He seemed OK. Now it's payback time. Brown should be chop blocked to send a message.
Dolegala would be our best quarterback prospect if he was a Bomber.
Brown should be suspended for 1 game. It was a late hit and to the head. No reason for it at all.
The Riders should be fined since the same thing happened last year.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on September 02, 2024, 02:57:19 PMDolegala would be our best quarterback prospect if he was a Bomber.
And the least expensive as a free agent.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 02, 2024, 02:59:00 PMBrown should be suspended for 1 game. It was a late hit and to the head. No reason for it at all.
The Riders should be fined since the same thing happened last year.
He did go at least half Garrett Marino on that one and forced Mike O'Shea to wear his hat backwards for the rest of the game. O'Shea was locked in after that.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 02, 2024, 02:59:00 PMBrown should be suspended for 1 game. It was a late hit and to the head. No reason for it at all.
The Riders should be fined since the same thing happened last year.
Wade Miller with some strong commentary.
" Winnipeg Blue Bombers president and CEO Wade Miller
didn't mince words when voicing his frustration following a high hit
to quarterback Zach Collaros late in the first half in a 35-33 victory
over the Saskatchewan Roughriders at Mosaic Stadium Sunday night.
To make his message clear, Miller made sure to direct his comments to
the man at the very top, commissioner Randy Ambrosie, who was in
attendance for the annual Labour Day Classic between the two prairie
rivals.
"At some point, maybe our commissioner will decide that we should
protect quarterbacks after the play," Miller told the _Free Press_.
"This is ridiculous and needs to stop. We've seen this two years
in a row now."
"Any player that hits a quarterback low or in the head after the
play should receive a rough play disqualification," added Miller.
"The Saskatchewan player now has two such hits this year alone on
quarterbacks."
- Free Press
The CFL has to do something. Maybe release a statement. The montage of head shots to QBs in the CFL is turning into a real black eye for the league.
Quote from: Waffler on September 02, 2024, 03:12:55 PMWade Miller with some strong commentary.
" Winnipeg Blue Bombers president and CEO Wade Miller
didn't mince words when voicing his frustration following a high hit
to quarterback Zach Collaros late in the first half in a 35-33 victory
over the Saskatchewan Roughriders at Mosaic Stadium Sunday night.
To make his message clear, Miller made sure to direct his comments to
the man at the very top, commissioner Randy Ambrosie, who was in
attendance for the annual Labour Day Classic between the two prairie
rivals.
"At some point, maybe our commissioner will decide that we should
protect quarterbacks after the play," Miller told the _Free Press_.
"This is ridiculous and needs to stop. We've seen this two years
in a row now."
"Any player that hits a quarterback low or in the head after the
play should receive a rough play disqualification," added Miller.
"The Saskatchewan player now has two such hits this year alone on
quarterbacks."
- Free Press
Apparently Brown was the same guy that knocked Dru Brown out of action earlier in the season.
Agree 100% with miller and posted the same response immediately after the play occurred. I think brown will receive a suspension as did Pete Robertson did last year and think the league will eventually change the rule to better protect Qb s from late hits as miller suggests
Those are some fightin' words. Love it!
BLM or MBT maybe available at a later date. Both are better than Streveler or Dolagala.
And before I read complaints about MBT, he's been an all-star (x2) and led his team to a Grey Cup finals. Matt Nichols may have been able to lead this current roster to a Grey Cup finals.
We already have two decent backup QBs. None issue handled internally.
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 02, 2024, 06:58:00 PMWe already have two decent backup QBs. None issue handled internally.
Most bomber fans will disagree with this.
We have one short yard specialist and one unknown.
Quote from: peg_city on September 02, 2024, 07:04:24 PMMost bomber fans will disagree with this.
We have one short yard specialist and one unknown.
We have the best QB in the league and for this year our backups are fine. Yes fans want more. I am happy with what we got. I have never been concerned with what the herd wants.
To come out and expect to find a backup QB at this point in the season isn't realistic, unless we have a serious injury situation.
This is a classic Austin thread. Seen this story before, got the t-shirt. Everybody is entitled to an opinion on this but now you know mine.
Worried that Zac going down on hits that dont seem that hard
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 02, 2024, 07:11:56 PMWe have the best QB in the league and for this year our backups are fine. Yes fans want more. I am happy with what we got. I have never been concerned with what the herd wants.
The "herd" as you call other Bomber fans, want production from back ups. We were not, or could not be, offensively aggressive or effective in the 2nd half. That is a concern.
Could you survive a blow to the head helmet to helmet? I don't think any of us could.
He may be a bit more prone to injury due to his past, but.. I'd rather be cautious with him than not be.
That hit was hard. It doesn't look hard on TV but they are hard.
I do wonder why Zach doesn't use those special covers though.
Quote from: ModAdmin on September 02, 2024, 07:25:45 PMThe "herd" as you call other Bomber fans, want production from back ups. We were not, or could not be, offensively aggressive in the 2nd half. That is a concern.
I am not concerned about Strev as our backup. I am entitled to that opinion. Doesn't mean I am right or the herd is either. Just fans talking ball. A change at backup QB is not realistic imo.
Strev will play well as the season ends and the weather turns. He is an asset. So easy to pile on after a unproductive half against a very good defense. I don't panic after a half of ball. As a whole Strev has proven to be a reasonably productive backup QB.
I see a club with an elite starter, proven reliable backup and a strong prospect waiting in the wings. Yes if Strev could throw the ball better that would be great buy can't have it all, especially considering the cap.
Some of the herd was calling for Zach's head early season and wanted changes on the oline. Those concerns, just like the ones about Strev will be short lived imo.
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 02, 2024, 07:29:45 PMI am not concerned about Strev as our backup. I am entitled to that opinion. Doesn't mean I am right or the herd is either. Just fans talking ball. A change at backup QB is not realistic imo.
Strev will play well as the season ends and the weather turns. He is an asset. So easy to pile on after a unproductive half against a very good defense.
I see a club with an elite starter, proven reliable backup and a strong prospect waiting in the wings. Yes if Strev could throw the ball better that would be great buy can't have it all, especially considering the cap.
I want a backup that can throw, not a backup running back. Sure, he has a few plays, but that's it. He can run up the middle, or to the side. Teams are aware of this now and can protect against it.
Can he throw more than 20 yards accurately? A qb should be able to. I like Strev, and he brings something new to the game. But he's been figured out, and we need a backup that can throw if it's going to be for more than a play or two. If it's for a 3rd down situation, then he's ok...even then he hasn't converted all of them. But for an entire half, he's not the answer. He's a great team guy and maybe a good 3rd string here, but not a backup for the rest of the game. Time to get someone else imo.
Quote from: tlf on September 02, 2024, 07:35:34 PMI want a backup that can throw, not a backup running back. Sure, he has a few plays, but that's it. He can run up the middle, or to the side. Teams are aware of this now and can protect against it.
Can he throw more than 20 yards accurately? A qb should be able to. I like Strev, and he brings something new to the game. But he's been figured out, and we need a backup that can throw if it's going to be for more than a play or two. If it's for a 3rd down situation, then he's ok...even then he hasn't converted all of them. But for an entire half, he's not the answer. He's a great team guy and maybe a good 3rd string here, but not a backup for the rest of the game. Time to get someone else imo.
Disagree all
You don't get better by deletion in this regard
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 02, 2024, 07:29:45 PMI am not concerned about Strev as our backup. I am entitled to that opinion. Doesn't mean I am right or the herd is either. Just fans talking ball. A change at backup QB is not realistic imo.
Strev will play well as the season ends and the weather turns. He is an asset. So easy to pile on after a unproductive half against a very good defense.
It's not piling on. It's a fact we were not productive in the second half of that game. You are correct that a change at back up QB is likely not possible. Not many would argue that. But it was clear we had considerable difficulty moving the ball in the second half and we need to do a heck of a lot better if Zack is out for a period of time. Teams need a passing and running game regardless of the weather, if they want to considered as a Grey Cup contender.
Quote from: ModAdmin on September 02, 2024, 07:37:07 PMIt's not piling on. It's a fact we were not productive in the second half of that game. You are correct that a change at back up QB is likely not possible. Not many would argue that. But it was clear we had considerable difficulty moving the ball in the second half and we need to do a heck of a lot better if Zack is out for a period of time. Teams need a passing and running game regardless of the weather, if they want to considered as a Grey Cup contender.
People been complaining and piling on about Strev all year. To be honest I see no value in continuing this convo. We don't see eye to eye on this. Your said your piece and I said mine.
Zach for the time being isn't out long term. I believe in Strev, you don't.
Time will tell and I think Strev has a happy ending for us.
The title of the thread states we need a backup QB, I strongly disagree. Let's judge Strev at the end of the season, not after a half.
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 02, 2024, 07:11:56 PMWe have the best QB in the league and for this year our backups are fine. Yes fans want more. I am happy with what we got. I have never been concerned with what the herd wants.
To come out and expect to find a backup QB at this point in the season isn't realistic, unless we have a serious injury situation.
This is a classic Austin thread. Seen this story before, got the t-shirt. Everybody is entitled to an opinion on this but now you know mine.
You've never been concerned about reality. Collaros has been knocked out two games this year. Streveler only was able to manage 46 yards passing in an entire half. His mechanics are horrible. Wilson is a rookie.
Getting another veteran QB at this point of the season is not likely. That doesn't mean we are secure with our back ups at QB. Blind faith is is more than an opinion when the facts are in your face.
Chris Streveler is a great QB!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmdNXHU-6x4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmdNXHU-6x4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DnjE5UH-Og (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DnjE5UH-Og)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj1167JczG8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj1167JczG8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi2aF8Q883c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi2aF8Q883c)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_chxyoIdZRY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_chxyoIdZRY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFgDh5bo92I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFgDh5bo92I)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDa_Jn4QIDI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDa_Jn4QIDI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brna5EWsgUk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brna5EWsgUk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXyfWR2WxAU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXyfWR2WxAU)
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 02, 2024, 08:11:26 PMYou've never been concerned about reality. Collaros has been knocked out two games this year. Streveler only was able to manage 46 yards passing in an entire half. His mechanics are horrible. Wilson is a rookie.
Getting another veteran QB at this point of the season is not likely. That doesn't mean we are secure with our back ups at QB. Blind faith is is more than an opinion when the facts are in your face.
Please stop taking personal attacks at me. It's getting old. If you can't do that, stop replying to my posts. You generalize comments about me that are not true. Please stop that. Please stay on topic, it's a backup QB thread, not a PJ thread.
I call it like I see it. The title of the thread states we need a backup QB, I strongly disagree at this moment.
Let's see how the season ends, look at the play off all our QBs and take it from there. Nothing is changing this year.
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 02, 2024, 08:25:31 PMPlease stop taking personal attacks at me. It's getting old. If you can't do that, stop replying to my posts. You generalize comments about me that are not true. Please stop that.
I call it like I see it. The title of the thread states we need a backup QB, I strongly disagree at this moment.
Let's see how the season ends, look at the play off all our QBs and take it from there. Nothing is changing this year.
It's not a personal attack. It's a discussion of real information which you can't seem to deal with at any time.
It's drinking the blue coolaid with blue coloured sunglasses.
I don't see many posters agreeing with you on Streveler or many of your other " opinions ".
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 02, 2024, 08:29:25 PMIt's not a personal attack. It's a discussion of real information which you can't seem to deal with at any time.
It's drinking the blue coolaid with blue coloured sunglasses.
I don't see many posters agreeing with you on Streveler or many of your other " opinions ".
Doubling down on personal attacks and untrue generalizations after being told to stop. Stop replying to my posts please. Thanks. Please stay on topic. People agree with me all the time on here and lots don't as expected. I get a lot of likes on my posts. Yes likely more against Strev than for. Anti Strev herd isn't right just because it's bigger. Your posts about me are not accurate, don't add to the convo, are unneeded and nobody cares / wants to see that.
I just looked in the crystal ball and it said the bombers next year will have these two quarterbacks.
1 Adams
2 Dustin Crum
Quote from: Bomber Diehard on September 02, 2024, 09:04:43 PMI just looked in the crystal ball and it said the bombers next year will have these two quarterbacks.
1 Adams
2 Dustin Crum
Except the BB are on the hook for a quarter mill minimum in guaranteed to ZC because of the last contract he signed.
Streveler was only allowed to make 6 pass attempts in the entire 2nd half of the game. Completed 4 of them for 46 yards. That's less than adequate by any ones standards.
At no point in any short yardage in 2024 situation has Pierce / O'Shea allowed him to throw a pass instead of a QB run.
That's a strong indication the Bombers are not confidant in him throwing. He's also been less effective as a short yardage QB which has resulted in turnover on downs multiple times.
His season average completion yardage is 5.2.
I don't think it's in O'Shea's make up to make a change but Dolegala is still out there as a free agent. I might add him to the PR and see if he can bump Wilson out of #3 spot for the balance of the year.
Wilson might become a good QB but we may never see what he can do this season.
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 02, 2024, 08:31:39 PMDoubling down on personal attacks and untrue generalizations after being told to stop. Stop replying to my posts please. Thanks. Please stay on topic. People agree with me all the time on here and lots don't as expected. I get a lot of likes on my posts. Yes likely more against Strev than for. Anti Strev herd isn't right just because it's bigger. Your posts about me are not accurate, don't add to the convo, are unneeded and nobody cares / wants to see that.
Nothing requires you to reply to my posts. Blue coolaid doesn't add anything to the conversation either.
The topic is that Streveler is not a good back up and the stats prove that argument. You'd take less heat if you supported your " opinion " with facts and stats rather than an emotional response.
Football is a game of stats and results. Neither of those support your " opinion ".
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 02, 2024, 09:38:08 PMNothing requires you to reply to my posts. Blue coolaid doesn't add anything to the conversation either.
The topic is that Streveler is not a good back up and the stats prove that argument. You'd take less heat if you supported your " opinion " with facts and stats rather than an emotional response.
Football is a game of stats and results. Neither of those support your " opinion ".
Stop with your generizations please. Stop replying to my posts please. You have proven an inability to keep the discussion respectful with me today. Not worried about the heat. Worried about keeping discussions respectful and on topic. I am entitled to my opinion, let's move on. You appear more interested in personlly attacking me than discussing football which is unfortunate as I enjoy the info you provide here.
Collaros and Streveler have both struggled at times this season for the same reasons. I'm not hanging any blame on either one of them. I'm sure they both wish they'd have played better but that goes for the whole team. As a team they are improving and have managed their way into first place, something many fans here would have thought an impossibility just a few games ago. I like being in first place and I like the job that the people in charge of personnel on this team have done. It's all a process. So far so good.
Quote from: J5V on September 02, 2024, 09:54:38 PMCollaros and Streveler have both struggled at times this season for the same reasons. I'm not hanging any blame on either one of them. I'm sure they both wish they'd have played better but that goes for the whole team. As a team they are improving and have managed their way into first place, something many fans here would have thought an impossibility just a few games ago. I like being in first place and I like the job that the people in charge of personnel on this team have done. It's all a process. So far so good.
I agree with all. Trust the process and the organization. They got this and the personal we have is pretty solid in almost all areas. I only see us improving and our QBs are trending in the right direction but will have bumps in the road. I believe the best learn from the bumps.
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 02, 2024, 09:59:16 PMI agree with all. Trust the process and the organization. They got this and the personal we have is pretty solid in almost all areas. I only see us improving and our QBs are trending in the right direction but will have bumps in the road. I believe the best learn from the bumps.
True. No team is without their needed areas of improvement. Even Montreal with their 10-1 record is far from perfect. Everyone thought Toronto was going to be unbeatable last year and look what happened. Anything is possible.
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 02, 2024, 09:20:55 PMExcept the BB are on the hook for a quarter mill minimum in guaranteed to ZC because of the last contract he signed.
Yeah, so we have Collaros for another year. I'm hoping they can re-work his contract.
2025 starting QBs
BC - Rourke
EDM - Ford
Cal
SSK
WPG - Collaros
OTT - Brown
HAM
TOR - Kelly
MTL - Fajardo
Alexander (MTL) will be a free agent, Adams, Maier, Bo Levi, MBT, Trevor Harris will be available. Might be able to grab a decent back-up.
Quote from: peg_city on September 02, 2024, 10:31:18 PMYeah, so we have Collaros for another year. I'm hoping they can re-work his contract.
2025 starting QBs
BC - Rourke
EDM - Ford
Cal
SSK
WPG - Collaros
OTT - Brown
HAM
TOR - Kelly
MTL - Fajardo
Alexander (MTL) will be a free agent, Adams, Maier, Bo Levi, MBT, Trevor Harris will be available. Might be able to grab a decent back-up.
I don't think Ford is under contract with Edmonton.
Throwing ability aside, Streveler has also struggled running the ball which is his main claim to fame. I dont recall him breaking through a tackle yet this season. Has he had a run more than 5 yards?
Quote from: Bomber Diehard on September 02, 2024, 09:04:43 PMI just looked in the crystal ball and it said the bombers next year will have these two quarterbacks.
1 Adams
2 Dustin Crum
Love these QBs but I don't see either happening
Quote from: Ducky on September 02, 2024, 10:50:39 PMThrowing ability aside, Streveler has also struggled running the ball which is his main claim to fame. I dont recall him breaking through a tackle yet this season. Has he had a run more than 5 yards?
Has he had the same Oline he had in 2019?
Quote from: Ducky on September 02, 2024, 10:50:39 PMThrowing ability aside, Streveler has also struggled running the ball which is his main claim to fame. I dont recall him breaking through a tackle yet this season. Has he had a run more than 5 yards?
Yes vs. Ott his average was 6.1
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 02, 2024, 07:49:43 PMPeople been complaining and piling on about Strev all year. To be honest I see no value in continuing this convo. We don't see eye to eye on this. Your said your piece and I said mine.
Zach for the time being isn't out long term. I believe in Strev, you don't.
Time will tell and I think Strev has a happy ending for us.
The title of the thread states we need a backup QB, I strongly disagree. Let's judge Strev at the end of the season, not after a half.
You don't know what I believe. Having said that I do believe you are a strong and loyal Bomber fan and there is nothing wrong with that. However also realize it makes it difficult to have a constructive discussion when that fan believes everything is and will be okay even in face of opposite evidence on the field. I'm not against Streveler at all
I simply feel his skill package is limited.
Quote from: Jesse on September 02, 2024, 10:47:16 PMI don't think Ford is under contract with Edmonton.
Ford will be a free agent.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on September 02, 2024, 11:22:25 PMFord will be a free agent.
Neither of the Fords will be under contract next year.
Quote from: ModAdmin on September 02, 2024, 11:19:00 PMYou don't know what I believe. Having said that I do believe you are a strong and loyal Bomber fan and there is nothing wrong with that. However also realize it makes it difficult to have a constructive discussion when that fan believes everything is and will be okay even in face of opposite evidence on the field. I'm not against Streveler at all
I simply feel his skill package is limited.
Yes I don't know what you believe. But your post helped me understand you position.
I am allowed to state my opinions on players,coaches and management, good, bad and ugly and will continue to do so. I have been on here for over a decade? Having plenty of discussions doing just that. You are over generalizing imo.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on September 02, 2024, 11:22:53 PMNeither of the Fords will be under contract next year.
Thought we were talking QBs?
Goldie,
Were you anywhere near the fight in the stands?
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 02, 2024, 11:24:56 PMYes I don't know what you believe. But your post helped me understand you position.
I am allowed to state my opinions on players,coaches and management, good, bad and ugly and will continue to do so. I have been on here for over a decade? Having plenty of discussions doing just that. You are over generalizing imo.
My last post on this - I promise. My thoughts on Chris Streveler and you are pretty specific not generalized. But you are absolutely entitled to your opinions.
Quote from: J5V on September 02, 2024, 11:27:41 PMGoldie,
Were you anywhere near the fight in the stands?
not far at all based on the camera angle but I did not notice anything from view point. Saw the video though.
Quote from: ModAdmin on September 02, 2024, 11:34:36 PMMy last post on this - I promise. My thoughts on Chris Streveler and you are pretty specific not generalized. But you are absolutely entitled to your opinions.
You were over generalizing that I only provide positive opinions. That is over generalizing and not true. I have a run of being positive yes, but that's not my only mode or role on here.
I would like to see Alexander and/or Adams.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on September 02, 2024, 11:22:25 PMFord will be a free agent.
I'm not sure if he'll want to stick around with Edmonton either.
I wonder if another team would give him a better chance next season.
A few thoughts...
Why would be possibly sign MBT or BLM for next year even if Zach is done? Zach is 36, MBT is 36 and BLM is 34. Other than we're hosting the Grey Cup, there is no future there. Ride with Zach next year and get our backup QB some reps FOR the future.
If Zach is out for any duration and/or garbage time for the rest of the season, I'd like to see what our current third stringer has. Mix Streveler in as he has been for short yardage and a couple specialty packages, but we cannot put the rest of the season in his hands.
Does nobody remember 2019? I never see anyone mention that the very reason we went out and got Zach in the first place was because Streveler had the starting job and was CLEARLY not the answer after Nichols went down. He's a "specialist" at best and yes, a folk hero in Winnipeg who genuinely DID help the Bombers win the cup in 2019, but he will NEVER be a full time starter. He simply can't pass.
His stats in 2019? 3-5 as a starter, 156/234 for 1564 yards, 8td 14int, for a QB rating of 72.0. Zach's numbers are slightly better than that this year and people are saying he's done. If he is, we don't want to ride with someone with similar numbers do we?
Quote from: DM83 on September 02, 2024, 02:55:49 PMThe enigma. Player that could be available is Arbuckle. He at one point was going to be the heir apparent in Calgary. What happened to him?.
He got Jenning's and Franklin'd. Promising backups on great teams who leave to go suck everywhere else.
As for our options... we'll never be able to get a proven contender as our #2 in FA as long as we have a $600k #1. No team can. The only option for a team holding arguably the best QB (MOP for many years) is to hope they strike gold with their IMP ELC. It's not just Bombers.
We struck gold with Dru. MTL did with Alexander. All the others, not so much.
That's why Strev is such a great puzzle piece this year... a Strev bird in the hand is worth 2 Wilsons in the bush. Wilson may be the next Fine, or the next Dru, no one can know... yet.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 03, 2024, 01:20:30 AMHe got Jenning's and Franklin'd. Promising backups on great teams who leave to go suck everywhere else.
As for our options... we'll never be able to get a proven contender as our #2 in FA as long as we have a $600k #1. No team can. The only option for a team holding arguably the best QB (MOP for many years) is to hope they strike gold with their IMP ELC. It's not just Bombers.
We struck gold with Dru. MTL did with Alexander. All the others, not so much.
That's why Strev is such a great puzzle piece this year... a Strev bird in the hand is worth 2 Wilsons in the bush. Wilson may be the next Fine, or the next Dru, no one can know... yet.
BC seems to make it work
Quote from: Waffler on September 02, 2024, 03:12:55 PM"Any player that hits a quarterback low or in the head after the
play should receive a rough play disqualification," added Miller.
"The Saskatchewan player now has two such hits this year alone on
quarterbacks."
I would go farther. It should also hurt the team in-game in a way besides just losing the roster spot -- or they could send a STer NAT "goon" to take out QBs without caring about losing him. I would add a new 35Y penalty that would
not be subject to the halfway-to-goal modification. So if they are at the 30YL, the penalty puts them at the 1.
Or start applying "points" to these hits to decide the penalty yardage:
Late? +15Y
H2H? +25Y
Anything else to head? +15Y
Body-flop? +15Y
any of the above extra egregious? +10Y
So you could easily have a 50Y penalty, with no "halfway" modification allowed.
Plus an ejection.
Plus some later-in-game penalty (yes, really) if the QB is taken out for the rest of the game. And how about the
And any situation where the RTP would result in 0 yard penalty gets applied to the next play (like kickoff).
How about if the QB misses X games that same player is suspended the same X games.
The pain would be so bad for a team and game that Ds would start wising up. There should also be consideration for garbage time so that goons don't take out QBs when the game is hopeless not caring about penalties or ejections. Something that applies to the next game.
There is so much the league could do to really make a dent.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 03, 2024, 01:20:30 AMHe got Jenning's and Franklin'd. Promising backups on great teams who leave to go suck everywhere else.
As for our options... we'll never be able to get a proven contender as our #2 in FA as long as we have a $600k #1. No team can. The only option for a team holding arguably the best QB (MOP for many years) is to hope they strike gold with their IMP ELC. It's not just Bombers.
We struck gold with Dru. MTL did with Alexander. All the others, not so much.
That's why Strev is such a great puzzle piece this year... a Strev bird in the hand is worth 2 Wilsons in the bush. Wilson may be the next Fine, or the next Dru, no one can know... yet.
That's a fair bit of a stretch. Streveler s value to the team may increase over the cold months when teams need to run the ball, but he isn't worth 2 of anything right now. Hamilton gets as good (or better) short yardage production out of Litre. Stevens is head and shoulders above Strev. If Zach goes down for any amount of time, we will have to acquire someone else, and the trade deadline isn't far away.
I will never discount Strevs contributions in 2019, but either he's no longer that guy or everyone else has figured him out.
These are the back ups for the rest of the CFL. Some are very expensive and may be 1a or 1b. Many are on the downside of their careers, some are on the upside. Exclude SMS in the equation.
Vancouver: VAJ
Edmonton: Ford or MBT
Calgary: Shiltz
Regina: Patterson
Hamilton: Powell or BLM depending on who the coaches wanted to go forward with before the injury to Powell
Ottawa: Masoli
Montreal: Evans and Alexander
Toronto: Arbuckle and Dukes
Go ahead and name a couple that wouldn't be more productive or have more upside to pass than Steveler if they had to start the next game?
Feel free to rank these QB's including Streveler and see where they land. Several on this list may be out of the CFL in 2025. That's not the question.
All but Evans are better than strev as a #2 Qb option
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 03, 2024, 02:22:18 AMThese are the back ups for the rest of the CFL. Some are very expensive and may be 1a or 1b. Many are on the downside of their careers, some are on the upside. Exclude SMS in the equation.
Vancouver: VAJ
Edmonton: Ford or MBT
Calgary: Shiltz
Regina: Patterson
Hamilton: Powell or BLM depending on who the coaches wanted to go forward with before the injury to Powell
Ottawa: Masoli
Montreal: Evans and Alexander
Toronto: Arbuckle and Dukes
Go ahead and name a couple that wouldn't be more productive or have more upside to pass than Steveler if they had to start the next game?
Feel free to rank these QB's including Streveler and see where they land. Several on this list may be out of the CFL in 2025. That's not the question.
You missed Crum. If Strev. could match Crum in combined passing and running ability, I'd be content with him as #2 till someone better came along.
What I'm hearing is "where is our next Zach Collaros"? It may very well be Terry Wilson when he's ready.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 03, 2024, 02:22:18 AMThese are the back ups for the rest of the CFL. Some are very expensive and may be 1a or 1b. Many are on the downside of their careers, some are on the upside. Exclude SMS in the equation.
Vancouver: VAJ
Edmonton: Ford or MBT
Calgary: Shiltz
Regina: Patterson
Hamilton: Powell or BLM depending on who the coaches wanted to go forward with before the injury to Powell
Ottawa: Masoli
Montreal: Evans and Alexander
Toronto: Arbuckle and Dukes
Go ahead and name a couple that wouldn't be more productive or have more upside to pass than Steveler if they had to start the next game?
Feel free to rank these QB's including Streveler and see where they land. Several on this list may be out of the CFL in 2025. That's not the question.
Alright, I'll bite.
I would rank VAJ number one, with MBT and Ford at number 2. All would be upgrades on Strev. Due to salary, none are realistic options for 2025.
I would not be interested in Evans, Patterson, Arbuckle or Dukes.
BLM? Hard to say, would be very interested if we got the BLM of today, but I don't think that's what you'll get. He's also playing behind a pretty good o-line, better than he would have here. So pass.
Shiltz might be a small upgrade on Strev as a number 2.
Masoli is too old and brittle. Might be a last ditch option if Collaros went down with only a few games left in the season, the way we replaced Nichols with Collaros. Same with BLM.
Both Powell and Alexander show promise. I actually think Alexander looked like he had a higher ceiling, but sample size is far too small. Powell is probably more game ready than Alexander, but I think Hamilton will try to hold on to him.
So really no great options. It's also academic, because barring injury, in 2025 O'Shea is going to go with the 2 guys he sees as his warriors, Zach and Strev.
Quote from: bunker on September 03, 2024, 03:00:47 AMAlright, I'll bite.
I would rank VAJ number one, with MBT and Ford at number 2. All would be upgrades on Strev. Due to salary, none are realistic options for 2025.
I would not be interested in Evans, Patterson, Arbuckle or Dukes.
BLM? Hard to say, would be very interested if we got the BLM of today, but I don't think that's what you'll get. He's also playing behind a pretty good o-line, better than he would have here. So pass.
Shiltz might be a small upgrade on Strev as a number 2.
Masoli is too old and brittle. Might be a last ditch option if Collaros went down with only a few games left in the season, the way we replaced Nichols with Collaros. Same with BLM.
Both Powell and Alexander show promise. I actually think Alexander looked like he had a higher ceiling, but sample size is far too small. Powell is probably more game ready than Alexander, but I think Hamilton will try to hold on to him.
So really no great options. It's also academic, because barring injury, in 2025 O'Shea is going to go with the 2 guys he sees as his warriors, Zach and Strev.
Well said and summarized, couldn't agree more
Quote from: J5V on September 03, 2024, 02:49:14 AMWhat I'm hearing is "where is our next Zach Collaros"? It may very well be Terry Wilson when he's ready.
Wilson won't be given the chance to get ready in the current configuration, even if Zach got knocked out for a couple of games, he'd spend them on the sidelines watching Strev. handle all duties.
As long as we have Collaros n the roster, he's the number one. He is under contract for next year, and if he want to play in 26, they will sign him again.
As long as he's the number one, we do not have the $SMS to pay a #2 to come here. No Alexander, Paterson, VA, or Ford comes here for what we can afford to pay on top of Collaros and Streveler, AND to sit waiting for someone to knock Collaros out of the lineup.
If Collaros announces 25 is his last year, and Miller says blow the budget, then we can sign one of those guys to back up in 25, and start in 26. THAT is the only way we land an up and coming FA QB. Otherwise they stay where they are.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 03, 2024, 02:22:18 AMVancouver: VAJ
Edmonton: Ford or MBT
Calgary: Shiltz
Regina: Patterson
Hamilton: Powell or BLM depending on who the coaches wanted to go forward with before the injury to Powell
Ottawa: Masoli
Montreal: Evans and Alexander
Toronto: Arbuckle and Dukes
I've crossed off all the
QBs that will likely be held past the trade deadline because it won't be clear who is out of the playoffs by that time. Yes, I think only HAM will be eliminated by the deadline. There is just too little spread between the other middling teams to determine anything else.
Powell was looking better this year, but he may be HAM's future, and I'm not sure he's better than Strev (same type of player). BLM would be intriguing just for a playoff run... but I think he needs more protection than even Zach does, and I'm not sure we can provide that. Besides, I may have to throw up if BLM ever wears B&G. Still, if it gets us a cup...
Quote from: bunker on September 03, 2024, 03:00:47 AMMasoli is too old and brittle. Might be a last ditch option if Collaros went down with only a few games left in the season, the way we replaced Nichols with Collaros. Same with BLM.
I would kill for Masoli to take the reins if a 2019 situation happens again! It's really too bad OTT is doing so well and won't trade anybody while they are strong in the hunt. He's not your future guy, but he definitely can be a win-right-now guy.
Masoli coming here and winning the cup after what happened in '19 and '21 would be the stuff of legend.
Luckily for us, Zach will be healthy for the whole playoff run! Trust me! 8)
Quote from: J5V on September 03, 2024, 02:49:14 AMWhat I'm hearing is "where is our next Zach Collaros"? It may very well be Terry Wilson when he's ready.
Based on the back-up quarterbacks that have come through this city over my lifetime, this seems unlikely.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 02, 2024, 09:34:04 PMStreveler was only allowed to make 6 pass attempts in the entire 2nd half of the game. Completed 4 of them for 46 yards. That's less than adequate by any ones standards.
At no point in any short yardage in 2024 situation has Pierce / O'Shea allowed him to throw a pass instead of a QB run.
That's a strong indication the Bombers are not confidant in him throwing. He's also been less effective as a short yardage QB which has resulted in turnover on downs multiple times.
His season average completion yardage is 5.2.
I don't think it's in O'Shea's make up to make a change but Dolegala is still out there as a free agent. I might add him to the PR and see if he can bump Wilson out of #3 spot for the balance of the year.
Wilson might become a good QB but we may never see what he can do this season.
Streveler is 1-0 as a starter this season. O'Shea doesn't care how they get there or how it looks as longs as the Bombers are up by 1 after 60 minutes.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 03, 2024, 07:34:58 AMI've crossed off all the QBs that will likely be held past the trade deadline because it won't be clear who is out of the playoffs by that time. Yes, I think only HAM will be eliminated by the deadline. There is just too little spread between the other middling teams to determine anything else.
Powell was looking better this year, but he may be HAM's future, and I'm not sure he's better than Strev (same type of player). BLM would be intriguing just for a playoff run... but I think he needs more protection than even Zach does, and I'm not sure we can provide that. Besides, I may have to throw up if BLM ever wears B&G. Still, if it gets us a cup...
To be clear I wasn't suggesting we make any effort to trade for any of those on the list. Several like Masoli, MBT or BLM are past their best before date and may not be in the CFL in 2025.
It was only a comparison of the # 2 QB's that are more likely to win a game or be more productive that Streveler.
Those 3 in particular can move the ball on offence.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 03, 2024, 02:47:13 AMYou missed Crum. If Strev. could match Crum in combined passing and running ability, I'd be content with him as #2 till someone better came along.
I didn't list Crum because he's fallen to # 3 in the short term. I don't know whether Crum, Evans or Powell will ever be good QB's but they do have some skills.
The intent wasn't any long term view. More about if Collaros went down for 2 or 3 games, who would be a better option at # 2. Who would you rather have kind of question.
Obviously, you can't just get another player and airlift him onto the roster and playbook.
Quote from: jdrattops on September 03, 2024, 01:04:08 PMStreveler is 1-0 as a starter this season. O'Shea doesn't care how they get there or how it looks as longs as the Bombers are up by 1 after 60 minutes.
He completed 13 of 21 for 127 yards. Average of 6 yards per reception, no TD's. He ran for 79 yards. Oliveria ran for 129 yards.
Dru Brown was replaced by Crum for most of the game. Masoli was injured but would now be the # 2 QB in Ottawa.
I don't know that is much to hang the hat on for Streveler.
We all hope Collaros doesn't get injured or miss any significant time. If he does we might look for a short term rental but that's as far as it goes. Trade dead line is approaching so I expect we'll run with those we have.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 03, 2024, 02:46:30 PMHe completed 13 of 21 for 127 yards. Average of 6 yards per reception, no TD's. He ran for 79 yards. Oliveria ran for 129 yards.
Dru Brown was replaced by Crum for most of the game. Masoli was injured but would now be the # 2 QB in Ottawa.
I don't know that is much to hang the hat on for Streveler.
We all hope Collaros doesn't get injured or miss any significant time. If he does we might look for a short term rental but that's as far as it goes. Trade dead line is approaching so I expect we'll run with those we have.
Thanks for the stats, but at the end of the day all O'Shea sees is 1-0 for the week. Trevor Harris put up some great numbers on Sunday it means FA as he lost.
Quote from: jdrattops on September 03, 2024, 01:04:08 PMStreveler is 1-0 as a starter this season. O'Shea doesn't care how they get there or how it looks as longs as the Bombers are up by 1 after 60 minutes.
Are you not forgetting the loss in Calgary? Technically he did not start that game, but he played the majority of it. He almost pulled it out except for a brutal interception in overtime.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 03, 2024, 02:30:59 PMTo be clear I wasn't suggesting we make any effort to trade for any of those on the list. Several like Masoli, MBT or BLM are past their best before date and may not be in the CFL in 2025.
It was only a comparison of the # 2 QB's that are more likely to win a game or be more productive that Streveler.
Those 3 in particular can move the ball on offence.
Brock for Clements!! One of the all time best trades the Bombers ever did! :) GM Paul Robson pulled the trigger on that one along with KINDLY Cal! ;) Former GM Earl Lunsford before Robson was too conservative to ever make such a deal. Some good teams, but not enough to beat the Evil Empire (EE!).
I'll say it ONCE AGAIN!! ;) HOSE JOB by officiating on Bombers late in 1982 western final on a VERY QUESTIONABLE late hit on Warren Moon by John Helton. Would love to see a replay of that as bugs me to this day still! ;) Too bad challenges did not exist then.
Quote from: ichabod_crane on September 04, 2024, 12:37:43 AMAre you not forgetting the loss in Calgary? Technically he did not start that game, but he played the majority of it. He almost pulled it out except for a brutal interception in overtime.
I did say starter.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 03, 2024, 05:20:24 AMAs long as we have Collaros n the roster, he's the number one. He is under contract for next year, and if he want to play in 26, they will sign him again.
As long as he's the number one, we do not have the $SMS to pay a #2 to come here. No Alexander, Paterson, VA, or Ford comes here for what we can afford to pay on top of Collaros and Streveler, AND to sit waiting for someone to knock Collaros out of the lineup.
If Collaros announces 25 is his last year, and Miller says blow the budget, then we can sign one of those guys to back up in 25, and start in 26. THAT is the only way we land an up and coming FA QB. Otherwise they stay where they are.
I disagree with a lot of this.
Collaros is the guy through next year; but I don't believe anything is settled after that. I certainly don't expect to see Stanley Bryant or Adam Bighill in 2026. A full on reset from the 2019 roster will have occurred. If Zach shows continued regression next season, I don't think we cling onto him while the roster swings younger.
SMS has nothing to do with bringing in a #2. None of them are paid an extravagant amount. It's the opportunity allotted to them. Being the back-up for an increasingly injured 36 year old QB isn't the worst position to be in for an "up and comer".
The bigger concern is getting someone up to speed before Zach retires. No one wants a repeat of the Elliot/Brinks/Goltz era
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 04, 2024, 01:37:45 AMThe bigger concern is getting someone up to speed before Zach retires. No one wants a repeat of the Elliot/Brinks/Goltz era
The problem is that it usually takes 2-4 years to get a new QB up to speed in the CFL, and that's if you get lucky enough to actually find one with the necessary skills. I think Zach has at most one more year left where he is a decent QB who you can win with. I suspect Streveler will continue to be the number 2, leaving no opportunity for a young QB to get any experience. I think our best bet after Zach may be to target someone from another team, if we can, who is ready to plug and play, rather than developing our own.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 03, 2024, 02:36:25 PMI didn't list Crum because he's fallen to # 3 in the short term. I don't know whether Crum, Evans or Powell will ever be good QB's but they do have some skills.
The intent wasn't any long term view. More about if Collaros went down for 2 or 3 games, who would be a better option at # 2. Who would you rather have kind of question.
Obviously, you can't just get another player and airlift him onto the roster and playbook.
I think you answered your own question, they will sink or swim with Strev. this season, if the results are not good, it will spur reconfiguration of the QB room next off-season.
https://www.tsn.ca/video/should-the-bombers-be-confident-in-streveler-stepping-up-if-he-s-named-starting-qb%7E2963034
Although he was defending Streveler to some extent on the panel, Matt does not sound very confident in Strevelers ability to run a complete offence if required.
Quote from: ichabod_crane on September 04, 2024, 12:37:43 AMAre you not forgetting the loss in Calgary? Technically he did not start that game, but he played the majority of it. He almost pulled it out except for a brutal interception in overtime.
Our whole team still sucked in the CGY loss. Nothing had gelled yet. Nothing was working. OL was hot garbage. Receivers had already been dropping like flies.
The only reason we almost pulled it off at that point is it turns out CGY is a way worse team this season. I don't hang any of that loss on Strevie.
Quote from: Jesse on September 04, 2024, 01:34:09 AMSMS has nothing to do with bringing in a #2. None of them are paid an extravagant amount. It's the opportunity allotted to them. Being the back-up for an increasingly injured 36 year old QB isn't the worst position to be in for an "up and comer".
The GC-caliber QBs that could be available, that can be your #2 are paid quite a lot compared to Strev's $110k.
Guys like MBT, Masoli, VAJ are all going to be at least $200k -- around double Strev salary. Some maybe $300-$450k. The only "deals" on a #2 are if you lucked out with a clear future-star ELC like MTL's Alexander or EDM's Ford.
However, if you're rolling into playoffs and you know there is no Zach, you pull the trigger on a legit MBT, Masoli, VAJ, or even Ford. You DO NOT get a future-loser like Powell, Evans, Dukes, Arbuckle, Fine, Dolegala, etc., because you'll have a better chance of winning it all with knows-the-team Strev. (Well, I might remove Powell from that list... maybe.)
But I
don't think we are willing to give up Huge Nice Things (stars or high DPs) unless we are
very certain we will make the cup in '24. We can't hamstring '25 for some vague and iffy '24 hopes.
But I think it's all moot because Zach will be fine and start nearly every game all the way through the GC!! 8) 8)
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 04, 2024, 01:37:45 AMThe bigger concern is getting someone up to speed before Zach retires. No one wants a repeat of the Elliot/Brinks/Goltz era
That's nearly impossible in the CFL for an expects-to-win-every-year team. You have to get very lucky in that you dig up a future-star ELC
and he comes off ELC right at the same moment your current starter retires/leaves. When has that ever happened??
No, in the CFL what you do is outbid and out-woo every other team for a league top-3 QB in FA. And that's almost certainly what WFC will do when Zach retires (which hopefully will occur in FA and not mid-season!).
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 04, 2024, 03:08:06 AMI think you answered your own question, they will sink or swim with Strev. this season, if the results are not good, it will spur reconfiguration of the QB room next off-season.
I knew and expected that when I made some posts on the subject. My effort was more about quantifying where Streveler would land in comparison to other # 2's around the league.
He's a popular player and great all around guy. His energy is worth the price of admission. However his skill set is limited. We didn't have a lot of choices in free agency due to SMS costs of alternatives.
Brown wanted a chance to start and a big pay check that wasn't going to happen in Winnipeg.
I would have preferred Streveler as our # 3 QB but I don't think he'd have accepted that. That wouldn't have resolved a better issue at # 2.
Teams have to decide what they can spend to retain players across the roster. I think we made the best choice we could given the other decisions / needs made about our roster.
That said I think we'll see what we might do in free agency in 2025. Upgrading at one position usually means we might lose another high cost player.
We lost some valuable players in free agency like Hardrick and Grant due to SMS capabilities. It's the nature of the game and transitional rosters. You can't keep or get everyone you might like to have on the roster.
The QB shuffle will depend on who retains current starters, which current starters retire, which backups are forced into games and either prove they are worthy or reveal their flaws.
"Stealing" a QB from another organization can only happen if there is a legit path to that vaunted starter spot.
I have total faith in the Mafia both finding a solution, and doing what it takes to make it happen.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 04, 2024, 03:45:06 PMThe QB shuffle will depend on who retains current starters, which current starters retire, which backups are forced into games and either prove they are worthy or reveal their flaws.
"Stealing" a QB from another organization can only happen if there is a legit path to that vaunted starter spot.
I have total faith in the Mafia both finding a solution, and doing what it takes to make it happen.
Faith only takes you so far. We won't know for some time about which QB's might be potential free agents. Some that are not potential free agents may be released or renegotiate contracts. Potential free agents may look for greener grass elsewhere.
A team with an older starter might be viewed as an opportunity for an up and coming QB.
It's a decent bet that VAJ is traded this off season due to Rourke returning and the impact of his contract.
Several teams will be in the running. No, I'm not suggesting Winnipeg would be one of them unless Collaros decides to retire.
Regardless that puts a legit starter inn limbo and I expect Hamilton to be where he ends up. They need a younger but more established QB and I'm guessing BLM will be released or retire. Age, injury history and SMS considerations.
That in turn may bounce Powell to not re-sign there in free agency.
It will be an interesting conversation when we see the potential free agency list and how that unfolds in the early game. Domino effect happens quickly. We might even see some time make a conditional trade for the right to speak with a QB before free agency.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 04, 2024, 04:00:26 PMFaith only takes you so far. We won't know for some time about which QB's might be potential free agents. Some that are not potential free agents may be released or renegotiate contracts. Potential free agents may look for greener grass elsewhere.
A team with an older starter might be viewed as an opportunity for an up and coming QB.
It's a decent bet that VAJ is traded this off season due to Rourke returning and the impact of his contract.
Several teams will be in the running. No, I'm not suggesting Winnipeg would be one of them unless Collaros decides to retire.
Regardless that puts a legit starter inn limbo and I expect Hamilton to be where he ends up. They need a younger but more established QB and I'm guessing BLM will be released or retire. Age, injury history and SMS considerations.
That in turn may bounce Powell to not re-sign there in free agency.
It will be an interesting conversation when we see the potential free agency list and how that unfolds in the early game. Domino effect happens quickly. We might even see some time make a conditional trade for the right to speak with a QB before free agency.
If V.A. becomes available, which is most likely, Walters has to seriously consider going after him as a starter in a move reminiscent of how he replaced Nichols with Zach. By doing so he would bring in a very capable QB who could ensure another 3-5 years of competitive play.
Quote from: J5V on September 02, 2024, 09:54:38 PMCollaros and Streveler have both struggled at times this season for the same reasons. I'm not hanging any blame on either one of them. I'm sure they both wish they'd have played better but that goes for the whole team. As a team they are improving and have managed their way into first place, something many fans here would have thought an impossibility just a few games ago. I like being in first place and I like the job that the people in charge of personnel on this team have done. It's all a process. So far so good.
Collaros was about to bury the Riders the other day. Everything was clicking.
Streveler...it's silly to think that he can't play quarterback in the CFL. He's already shown that he can. Including the passing game.
Fan forums sometimes suffer from some kind of herd thinking.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 04, 2024, 04:12:08 PMIf V.A. becomes available, which is most likely, Walters has to seriously consider going after him as a starter in a move reminiscent of how he replaced Nichols with Zach. By doing so he would bring in a very capable QB who could ensure another 3-5 years of competitive play.
VAJ has a relatively team friendly contract compared to Collaros. OTOH Collaros has some money guaranteed on his deal in 2025. The size of his contact and guaranteed money probably make trading him very difficult.
VAJ is younger and has less of an injury history. So I understand the logic but don't think we'd even be in the conversation.
From the Lions point of view, they'll want to get him out of the west division. That's why I see Hamilton as a team in need and a trade choice for the Lions. They're going to have high draft picks in 2025 unless something changes over the rest of the season.
I could see the Stamps interested but that's a conflict for the Lions.
IMO Bombers will be in the market for a younger up and coming # 2 Qb that sees a chance to start in 2026. I'm not sure if Collaros plays after 2025.
Lots of QB's will be 34- 39 by early next season. We may see a lot of changes across the league.
The ace in the hole is team dynamic and Buck Pierce. We have an outstanding group of receivers, the best RB in the league, and an Oline that is always among the best in the league.
When choosing a new home, seeing how our players are treated, the quality of the facility and fans, all things being equal, why wouldn't a QB choose us as his new home.
Not to rehash an old saw, but Cavillo bounced around a bit before he became AC13..
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 04, 2024, 04:22:58 PMVAJ has a relatively team friendly contract compared to Collaros. OTOH Collaros has some money guaranteed on his deal in 2025. The size of his contact and guaranteed money probably make trading him very difficult.
VAJ is younger and has less of an injury history. So I understand the logic but don't think we'd even be in the conversation.
From the Lions point of view, they'll want to get him out of the west division. That's why I see Hamilton as a team in need and a trade choice for the Lions. They're going to have high draft picks in 2025 unless something changes over the rest of the season.
I could see the Stamps interested but that's a conflict for the Lions.
IMO Bombers will be in the market for a younger up and coming # 2 Qb that sees a chance to start in 2026. I'm not sure if Collaros plays after 2025.
Lots of QB's will be 34- 39 by early next season. We may see a lot of changes across the league.
Not saying it would be an easy move but if Walters put his mind to it and offered BC a very attractive package in return, it could be done. He would have to weigh the cost against going after another QB that could be available, if there are any of a higher quality. It would be sad if he went after someone like Jake Maier instead.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 04, 2024, 05:30:03 PMNot saying it would be an easy move but if Walters put his mind to it and offered BC a very attractive package in return, it could be done. He would have to weigh the cost against going after another QB that could be available, if there are any of a higher quality. It would be sad if he went after someone like Jake Maier instead.
Like I said:
1. Trading Collaros would be an issue due to his contact.
2. Trading draft choices or neg list choices might not be enough even if you get past issue named in Item #1
3. Every free agency we tend have about half the roster as potential free agents.
4. Lions will look for the best deal, but will look east as 1st choice.
I do not believe we'll be in the conversation for VAJ unless Collaros has a season ending / extending into 2025 injury.
We'll be in the hunt for another # 2 possibly if one becomes available in free agency. Those under contract no so much.
I also believe we will shed some SMS prior to free agency. Either by retirement, decisions to move on from some older players, not being able to get some wanted players to agree to new deals. Happens every year with every team.
Not a lot of point mentioning where some of those changes might be.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 04, 2024, 04:12:08 PMIf V.A. becomes available, which is most likely, Walters has to seriously consider going after him as a starter in a move reminiscent of how he replaced Nichols with Zach. By doing so he would bring in a very capable QB who could ensure another 3-5 years of competitive play.
pass
We ride Zach to the end and buy a good QB once he is gone. He will help develop our next stud.
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 04, 2024, 07:35:36 PMpass
We ride Zach to the end and buy a good QB once he is gone. He will help develop our next stud.
Those two things probably don't happen at the same time. I think he plays in 2025 which IIRC is the end of his current contract.
Then we'll have to consider what we do and who might be available. There will many changes at the QB position across the CFL before then so hard to predict.
I don't know if Collaros wants to go into coaching and we may not have either the spot or funds to transition.
Pierce may have a HC opportunity at the end of 2024 or 2025 so that could open up a spot potentially.
All boils down to timing in series of events. Many OC's were QB's and have great success in that role.
If he becomes an OC post playing time he could be instrumental in developing our QB going forward.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 04, 2024, 08:08:59 PMThose two things probably don't happen at the same time. I think he plays in 2025 which IIRC is the end of his current contract.
Then we'll have to consider what we do and who might be available. There will many changes at the QB position across the CFL before then so hard to predict.
I don't know if Collaros wants to go into coaching and we may not have either the spot or funds to transition.
Pierce may have a HC opportunity at the end of 2024 or 2025 so that could open up a spot potentially.
All boils down to timing in series of events. Many OC's were QB's and have great success in that role.
If he becomes an OC post playing time he could be instrumental in developing our QB going forward.
Vernon Adams is currently the "bird in the bush" we know will be available soon, that's why it's worth contemplating before it happens, Not often a top line QB becomes available, we know there will be a few clubs seriously interested, but not a lot due to their current QB obligations, maybe Sask, Cgy. and Ham.
I don't care for him as a player, but I can see the value in acquiring him within the next 6 months, save some money off Zach's salary, and get 4-5 more years of competitive production.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 04, 2024, 09:26:17 PMVernon Adams is currently the "bird in the bush" we know will be available soon, that's why it's worth contemplating before it happens, Not often a top line QB becomes available, we know there will be a few clubs seriously interested, but not a lot due to their current QB obligations, maybe Sask, Cgy. and Ham.
I don't care for him as a player, but I can see the value in acquiring him within the next 6 months, save some money off Zach's salary, and get 4-5 more years of competitive production.
I understand the thought but don't agree the team will look into that option. There are so many reasons why not. Collaros doesn't have to take a pay cut. Neither does Adams. Then there is the trade cost to acquire him. Adams in Winnipeg is about the same SMS QB total for the team as staying in Vancouver.
It just doesn't make financial sense at the moment for the Lions. It wouldn't be for any other team that retains it's current # 1 QB.
I think going into 2026 when Collaros needs a new deal, there might be a transition towards being a # 2 QB at a lower salary. Whether that is to start the season as # 1 and transition towards # 2 or just an out right move to # 2 position.
It's the number # 3 QB that is the development QB. That could be T. Wilson or any of the other QB's that come to the CFL for TC as rookies. No idea that far into the future.
We don't know much about Wilson yet but he is athletic and has a strong arm. Maybe we get to see him at the end of the season when standings are set.
It's always nice to have a starting quality # 2 QB but that guy wants to start and wants # 1 money ( Brown ). You can't really spend $1M on a teams top 2 QB's.
Its tough to predict the future, since alot depends on Zach's health, and how well he plays in 2025. But given the way O'Shea talks about him, I think he would have to really fall off a cliff not to be resigned after 2025. That's especially the case if we put him in a position to succeed in 2025 with a good O-line and good offensive weapons, and he has a bounce back year. I think we already have the offensive weapons we need, but the O-line could be work in progress, especially if/when Bryant retires.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 04, 2024, 09:49:10 PMI understand the thought but don't agree the team will look into that option. There are so many reasons why not. Collaros doesn't have to take a pay cut. Neither does Adams. Then there is the trade cost to acquire him. Adams in Winnipeg is about the same SMS QB total for the team as staying in Vancouver.
-If Adams comes to Wpg. and Collaros goes elsewhere the cost savings would be $150-$200k assuming Adams is content with $350-400k.
It just doesn't make financial sense at the moment for the Lions. It wouldn't be for any other team that retains it's current # 1 QB.
-I'm talking off-season, I don't believe the Lions will be able to retain V.A. as a #2 due to his higher cost and his desire to be a starter. Vern can't wait any longer, he started late and it's now or never.
I think going into 2026 when Collaros needs a new deal, there might be a transition towards being a # 2 QB at a lower salary. Whether that is to start the season as # 1 and transition towards # 2 or just an out right move to # 2 position.
-I'd be very surprised if Zach continues his career beyond 2025, concussion issues and having a young family are destined to become his greater concern. Starting to see that tired Mike Reilly look in his eyes, wondering if he still enjoys the game.
Sorry for the formatting this doesn't work well without bolding my comments.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 04, 2024, 11:10:06 PMSorry for the formatting this doesn't work well without bolding my comments.
I've tried to detail the facts why trading Collaros would be very difficult. SMS, age and injury history on top of all that. Can never say never but I don't see a path for a team trading for a QB that turns 37 next August along with the other issues. Note that he was knocked out at least one game last year and I think missed parts of 3 this year.
That's a lot on the table.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 05, 2024, 01:20:09 AMI've tried to detail the facts why trading Collaros would be very difficult. SMS, age and injury history on top of all that. Can never say never but I don't see a path for a team trading for a QB that turns 37 next August along with the other issues. Note that he was knocked out at least one game last year and I think missed parts of 3 this year.
That's a lot on the table.
How many QBs have not missed time this year? Injuries that I'm aware of: VA for BC, Trey Ford for Edm, TH for Sask, ZC for us, CF for Montreal, DB for Ottawa ... who did I miss? I think Meier for Cgy, Dukes for T.O., and BLM for Hamilton are the only clean ones.
Quote from: J5V on September 05, 2024, 01:39:42 AMHow many QBs have not missed time this year?
Just Maier. Last man standing. Both BLM and Dukes have had games off from being pulled, so you can't really include them.
Surprisingly, Zach has been one of the healthier QBs. His misses were mostly "precautionary".
Quote from: bunker on September 04, 2024, 10:35:48 PMI think we already have the offensive weapons we need, but the O-line could be work in progress, especially if/when Bryant retires.
If you're Big Stan, assuming he never had some heart thing, no way he retires before the big 2025 season! He spends 147 years here and he's going to miss that one? No way!
After the home GC win in '25, who knows. Worry about it then!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 04, 2024, 09:26:17 PMI don't care for him as a player, but I can see the value in acquiring him within the next 6 months, save some money off Zach's salary, and get 4-5 more years of competitive production.
I don't like VAJ. Never have.
I don't think VAJ wins anyone a cup. He just doesn't have the missing factor. For some reason Cody found it deep inside, but I don't think VAJ does. Maybe it's the fact he's always worked up and always having to do breathing exercises on the sidelines just to not go postal. He's like the ADHD/ADD of QBs. It's like the opposite of a MOS/WFC locker room guy.
So I don't think we make a play for him unless he's literally the last option, and I don't think KW would ever let us get into the situation of having to settle for the last QB in FA.
Plus, VAJ took a huge discount to be the #1 in BC and to help the team win a cup with a better surrounding cast. He's wants to be a Lion Lifer, and gave selflessly and now got royally shafted. I don't think he'll be generous ever again, not for a non-BC team. As such VAJ will be doing the Henoc mercenary tour and easily get $600k.
Oh ya, and VAJ is no spring chicken either, and has his own injury history. He's a tiny little guy.
Quote from: J5V on September 05, 2024, 01:39:42 AMHow many QBs have not missed time this year? Injuries that I'm aware of: VA for BC, Trey Ford for Edm, TH for Sask, ZC for us, CF for Montreal, DB for Ottawa ... who did I miss? I think Meier for Cgy, Dukes for T.O., and BLM for Hamilton are the only clean ones.
I think nearly every QB has missed at least part of a game this season. Not all of them were due to head/neck/shoulder/concussion protocol and were removed by the spotter. He's also had a history of concussions so it's not quite the same.
It's just part of the profile for Collaros when you consider trading for him added to the high SMS and other factors. Even if we wanted to trade him I don't think it would be likely. That's all I'm saying. The topic is about our back up QB and I don't see a trade out there before trade dead line.
The reality is that I don't think it's even on the mind of O'Shea.
Quote from: DM83 on September 05, 2024, 05:47:36 AMTechno you made a lot of good points. VAJ is a prima Donna. He plays like a wanna be starter. But keeps getting benched. You are correct noting his he's so hard done by routine every third game. I mean who could be proud of a guy who "does" almost every game, only to be able to miraculously recover.
He will be in Hamilton next year, I predict. They are stupid enough to bring him in.
Imo the name calling is uncalled for.
VAJ is a good QB imo. That said in the future (few years), I wouldn't want him here unless there was no better option. I would also be interested at a low ball price.
I think VAJ could win a cup on the right team / situation. 50/50 chance in his career imo.
We have a very solid QB room. I don't think they would have kept Wilson if he didn't have potential to develop. When teh PR expands, I expect at least one new QB prospect to get a look, maybe even a couple, to prep for next years training camp to give Wilson a challenge.
Picking over other teams scrap heaps is one thing, plucking solid prospects is another. Ottawa grabbing Dru from us is a version of the later. Us picking up VA, Masoli, or even Dolegala would be more the former.
If Bo comes into good form this year, and revitalizes his career to the point of sticking around a few more, I'd be OK with going after Palmer. Or chasing Paterson or Alexander. If they are coming off their ELC's. Or Ford if they are done with him in EE, re-uniting him with his brother would be a fun dynamic.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 05, 2024, 03:45:57 PMWe have a very solid QB room. I don't think they would have kept Wilson if he didn't have potential to develop. When teh PR expands, I expect at least one new QB prospect to get a look, maybe even a couple, to prep for next years training camp to give Wilson a challenge.
Picking over other teams scrap heaps is one thing, plucking solid prospects is another. Ottawa grabbing Dru from us is a version of the later. Us picking up VA, Masoli, or even Dolegala would be more the former.
If Bo comes into good form this year, and revitalizes his career to the point of sticking around a few more, I'd be OK with going after Palmer. Or chasing Paterson or Alexander. If they are coming off their ELC's. Or Ford if they are done with him in EE, re-uniting him with his brother would be a fun dynamic.
How are they going to develop Wilson if he never gets a single game rep??? You can't keep a QB in the broom closet then expect him to win games when thrown to the wolves. Dru Brown developed because he was given adequate game time to learn how to operate. Think back before Brown, remember how good this regime was at developing QB's? Apparently nothing has changed.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 05, 2024, 04:04:30 PMHow are they going to develop Wilson if he never gets a single game rep??? You can't keep a QB in the broom closet then expect him to win games when thrown to the wolves. Dru Brown developed because he was given adequate game time to learn how to operate. Think back before Brown, remember how good this regime was at developing QB's? Apparently nothing has changed.
It's preferable to get a # 3 QB some game reps but it's never that easy. OTOH, Alexander in Montreal only had 21 attempts in 2022 -2023 before looking really good in his games this season.
Rourke and M. Reilly before him had limited reps before becoming top QB's.
Some players take longer and some just have the " it ".
I have no idea whether Wilson will become a good QB or not. Posters that have been to practice a few times might have a better idea on what his skill level is like.
In a perfect world maybe we get to see him in action once the standings are set.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 05, 2024, 04:04:30 PMHow are they going to develop Wilson if he never gets a single game rep??? You can't keep a QB in the broom closet then expect him to win games when thrown to the wolves. Dru Brown developed because he was given adequate game time to learn how to operate. Think back before Brown, remember how good this regime was at developing QB's? Apparently nothing has changed.
You never want a rookie 3rd stringer taking game reps unless you're in a break-glass emergency scenario.
There's a progression these guys have to follow.
Quote from: Jesse on September 05, 2024, 06:31:21 PMYou never want a rookie 3rd stringer taking game reps unless you're in a break-glass emergency scenario.
There's a progression these guys have to follow.
Not always. Some games are decided early either by enormous leads or deficits. Or a team that has locked up 1st place or has been eliminated from playoff contention, will play a multitude of rookies or back ups.
This year the Als may lock up 1st place this week. The TiCats and Elks could be eliminated for example.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 05, 2024, 03:45:57 PMWe have a very solid QB room. I don't think they would have kept Wilson if he didn't have potential to develop.
Uh, 2 words: Dom Davis. We kept him, what, 4 seasons? We kept throwing time and games and chances at him and he always fell flat.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 05, 2024, 03:45:57 PMOr chasing Paterson or Alexander.
Patterson: <insert Corner Gas mention of Dog River here>
Alexander: ya, we can join every team in the league!
Ford: He's like mini-Streveler; sounds like a good gamble, but he'll just never last a season. I'd just keep Strev, he'd be cheaper.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 05, 2024, 04:04:30 PMHow are they going to develop Wilson if he never gets a single game rep??? You can't keep a QB in the broom closet then expect him to win games when thrown to the wolves. Dru Brown developed because he was given adequate game time to learn how to operate. Think back before Brown, remember how good this regime was at developing QB's? Apparently nothing has changed.
Dru did. Alexander did. Ya, Dru got a few PS and garbage-season games in his time here, which he did badly in IIRC. Wasn't he duking it out with McGuire for our #2 spot a while back? We managed to see he was a legit #1 and McGuire wasn't.
The PS/GS games don't really help identify the "keeper" QBs though because half the team are backups.
Nope, in the CFL you need to sit on the PR and learn through osmosis and pray you come out there and Dru and Mike Reilly and Alexander on your first legit reg.season foray. Or maybe second. You have very few non-garbage games to shine with the first unit, then it's scrap-heap for you!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 06, 2024, 05:26:30 AMUh, 2 words: Dom Davis. We kept him, what, 4 seasons? We kept throwing time and games and chances at him and he always fell flat.
Patterson: <insert Corner Gas mention of Dog River here>
Alexander: ya, we can join every team in the league!
Ford: He's like mini-Streveler; sounds like a good gamble, but he'll just never last a season. I'd just keep Strev, he'd be cheaper.
Dom Davis is the perfect example of a backup QB kept in a broom closet for years, it wasn't till he moved to Ottawa that he was actually given any playing time. While a Bomber he was used strictly for 3rd down sneaks, can't recall if they had anyone else as a developmental QB during his time. I'd have to check but I think Dom Davis was here behind Willy and Nichols.
Strev had his best years under Lapo. Maybe part of his problem is Buck. Lapo was much more creative with Strev's strengths.
Hmmm. Maier benched in Calgary. That doesn't bode well for him going into 2025. He's in the last year of his current contract.
Calgary now becomes a potential trading partner with BC to get VAJ. I still think chances BC does that in conference is remote but not impossible. Hamilton is where I suspect he goes.
Maier? Quite possibly out of the CFL along with QB's like Cornelius. He'd have to take a big cut to land as a # 2 somewhere.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 06, 2024, 04:10:42 PMDom Davis is the perfect example of a backup QB kept in a broom closet for years, it wasn't till he moved to Ottawa that he was actually given any playing time. While a Bomber he was used strictly for 3rd down sneaks and I don't think they had anyone else as a developmental QB during his time. I'd have to check but I think Dom Davis was here behind Willy and Nichols.
Dominique Davis was the PR QB in 2015 until Drew Willy got injured. He remained behind Robert Marve, Brian Brohm & Matt Nichols (when acquired). Davis got his first CFL start in the final game of the season.
In 2016, Davis was the #3 QB behind Willy & Nichols with Kevin Glenn replacing Willy on the roster after some trades. The development (PR) QB was Bryan Bennett and MBT was brought in during the PR expansion.
Davis was the #2 QB behind Nichols for most of the 2017 season with Lefevour as the short yardage QB. It was a bit of a surprise that Lefevour got the start ahead of Davis for the final game of the regular season. Winnipeg brought in a trio of QBs during the PR expansion period.
During his 3 years in Winnipeg, Dominique Davis was the drive QB for 32 possessions with 0 TDs & 7 FGs. Davis had 2 successful QB sneaks during his time with the Blue & Gold (1 in his start in 2015 & 1 in game 6 of the 2016 season)
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 06, 2024, 05:26:20 PMHmmm. Maier benched in Calgary. That doesn't bode well for him going into 2025. He's in the last year of his current contract.
Calgary now becomes a potential trading partner with BC to get VAJ. I still think chances BC does that in conference is remote but not impossible. Hamilton is where I suspect he goes.
Maier? Quite possibly out of the CFL along with QB's like Cornelius. He'd have to take a big cut to land as a # 2 somewhere.
Dickenson starting to feel the pressure, very good chance he gets fired if the Stamps don't make the playoffs this year after a couple of down years, IMO. Liked what I saw in Bonner for 2 years, not very mobile but seems to be smart and can sling the ball. I think Maier will stay in the league and possibly find redemption under a different system, likely out East.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 06, 2024, 05:26:20 PMHmmm. Maier benched in Calgary. That doesn't bode well for him going into 2025. He's in the last year of his current contract.
Calgary now becomes a potential trading partner with BC to get VAJ. I still think chances BC does that in conference is remote but not impossible. Hamilton is where I suspect he goes.
Maier? Quite possibly out of the CFL along with QB's like Cornelius. He'd have to take a big cut to land as a # 2 somewhere.
This isn't a big deal in the CFL.
1. You can't cross out half your potential trading partners.
2. You don't really play that many more games against your division. You're going to decline a better trade offer because you might play one extra game against the player?
Quote from: Jesse on September 06, 2024, 06:27:56 PMThis isn't a big deal in the CFL.
1. You can't cross out half your potential trading partners.
2. You don't really play that many more games against your division. You're going to decline a better trade offer because you might play one extra game against the player?
Trading partners are eliminated by those not needing a player at a given position. Elks are a bit of a wildcard in that I think both QB's are potential free agents.
Calgary and the TiCats look to be the only teams in the market for a new QB. QB's traded in the same division are not usually TOP QB's but back ups that have shown some potential.
It is a big deal in the CFL. I guess we'll see how this works out but my money is on the TiCats landing VAJ.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 06, 2024, 06:39:51 PMTrading partners are eliminated by those not needing a player at a given position. Elks are a bit of a wildcard in that I think both QB's are potential free agents.
Calgary and the TiCats look to be the only teams in the market for a new QB. QB's traded in the same division are not usually TOP QB's but back ups that have shown some potential.
It is a big deal in the CFL. I guess we'll see how this works out but my money is on the TiCats landing VAJ.
Where the heck is Khari Jones nowadays? last heard from fired by the RB's and replaced with Condell November 3, 2023.
Don't under estimate the power of developing a QB behind the scenes. Worked with Brown. Yes they need reps. But you have to remember we have an good OC and exceptional mentor in Zach. Wilson if he has the tools is like a sponge. He has the physical and hopefully overtime he can figure out the game and it slows down from him when we need him. I would estimate he is 2 to 3 years away from being ready. Patience might pay off but with prospect QBs it's anyone's guess. I loved Brown from the start. I also like Wilson.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 06, 2024, 04:10:42 PMDom Davis is the perfect example of a backup QB kept in a broom closet for years, it wasn't till he moved to Ottawa that he was actually given any playing time. While a Bomber he was used strictly for 3rd down sneaks, can't recall if they had anyone else as a developmental QB during his time. I'd have to check but I think Dom Davis was here behind Willy and Nichols.
He got all the usual PS and garbage-season games, as well as in-game injury replacement and probably some Nichols-injured starts.
And it's a good thing we kept him in the broom closet because except for 1-2 decent high-yardage games when he was "brand new" in OTT (i.e. no film), he stunk the joint out and lost his job in short order.
Wilson looked good in pre-season but that can be deceptive. He seems to have the physical tools. Posters that go to practice may have some additional insight.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 07, 2024, 01:26:12 PMWilson looked good in pre-season but that can be deceptive. He seems to have the physical tools. Posters that go to practice may have some additional insight.
Did he look good? I thought the consensus was he just didn't look at bad as Barriere.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on September 07, 2024, 03:32:00 PMDid he look good? I thought the consensus was he just didn't look at bad as Barriere.
He completed 25 of 32 in the 2 games for about 200 yards total. He showed a strong arm and some good athleticism and elusiveness.
Keeping in mind nearly all our offensive starters didn't play including on the OL.
So, he did ok. Of course the opponents were using rookies across the board, but all things considered I though he did ok. I think some people that went to TC thought he showed some level of skill. Obviously that's a very small sample.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 07, 2024, 03:42:17 PMHe completed 25 of 32 in the 2 games for about 200 yards total. He showed a strong arm and some good athleticism and elusiveness.
Keeping in mind nearly all our offensive starters didn't play including on the OL.
So, he did ok. Of course the opponents were using rookies across the board, but all things considered I though he did ok. I think some people that went to TC thought he showed some level of skill. Obviously that's a very small sample.
As we all know a good QB has to have more than great physical tools, with Wilson it's the mental tools that are the big unknown, does he have the ability to process information quickly and react in an effective matter? Impossible to determine without considerable playing time.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 07, 2024, 04:19:31 PMAs we all know a good QB has to have more than great physical tools, with Wilson it's the mental tools that are the big unknown, does he have the ability to process information and react in an effective matter? Impossible to determine without considerable playing time.
I agree and we've gone through many many QB's over the years with little success. Brown was the 1st one that showed the mental aspect of understanding the game early.
Looking forward to watching the Redblacks today to see if they rebound. Also looking forward to seeing if Kelly does a few face plants.
With Strevy hurt, wonder if we pick up Dolegala?
Quote from: Doublezero on September 07, 2024, 10:15:27 PMWith Strevy hurt, wonder if we pick up Dolegala?
Makes sense
Well now this discussion becomes more realistic..if Strevy is hurt as bad as it looks we will need someone:
Fine ?
Dolegala ?
Cornelius ?
A trade??
Wait to see how bad / length of recovery is for Strev and go from there. Intersting twist to be sure.
Looking at next year I would sure like Vernon Adams in a Bomber uniform.
Quote from: Bomber Diehard on September 08, 2024, 01:01:34 AMLooking at next year I would sure like Vernon Adams in a Bomber uniform.
Pass, good QB not personally interested
Zach is my man.
Quote from: Bomber Diehard on September 08, 2024, 01:01:34 AMLooking at next year I would sure like Vernon Adams in a Bomber uniform.
He was on my wish list when he was younger. But not at this point in time. Maybe 2026.
Here's what will be a wildly unpopular idea. Milanovich will move on from BLM in the off season. Trade a draft pick for him. BLM with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove in a playoff run (even as a backup) is not a bad insurance policy
We re saying we need a good 2nd string Qb, poor Calgary needs a Qb period!!
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 08, 2024, 01:48:57 AMHere's what will be a wildly unpopular idea. Milanovich will move on from BLM in the off season. Trade a draft pick for him. BLM with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove in a playoff run (even as a backup) is not a bad insurance policy
Hard pass
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 08, 2024, 01:48:57 AMHere's what will be a wildly unpopular idea. Milanovich will move on from BLM in the off season. Trade a draft pick for him. BLM with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove in a playoff run (even as a backup) is not a bad insurance policy
I don't think BLM continues playing in a back-up role.
Quote from: Jesse on September 08, 2024, 02:02:20 PMI don't think BLM continues playing in a back-up role.
He'd be a rental but I am sure he would finish this season here with the chance to get one more ring.
He's the best available assuming Hammy would like a future asset for him. He'd do well here, lots of offensive potential.
Mitchell as a rental for the balance of the season and playoffs isn't all that bad of an idea - for the right price.
I would be okay with BLM, but I am a little concerned with Wilson on the short yardage. He did a good job yesterday, but at 6'3", 207, not sure how long he will last. I think if Strev is gone for awhile, we look at a little bigger QB that can and has run the short yardage package in the CFL.
Quote from: Pigskin on September 08, 2024, 04:42:52 PMI would be okay with BLM, but I am a little concerned with Wilson on the short yardage. He did a good job yesterday, but at 6'3", 207, not sure how long he will last. I think if Strev is gone for awhile, we look at a little bigger QB that can and has run the short yardage package in the CFL.
Jake Dolegala 6'7" 242 lbs....big enough for ya??
I'd be on the phone right now calling this guy.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on September 08, 2024, 02:53:41 PMMitchell as a rental for the balance of the season and playoffs isn't all that bad of an idea - for the right price.
Quote from: dd on September 08, 2024, 04:45:14 PMJake Dolegala 6'7" 242 lbs....big enough for ya??
I'd be on the phone right now calling this guy.
If Strev down long term sure. Jake more realistic.
Quote from: Pigskin on September 08, 2024, 04:42:52 PMI would be okay with BLM, but I am a little concerned with Wilson on the short yardage. He did a good job yesterday, but at 6'3", 207, not sure how long he will last. I think if Strev is gone for awhile, we look at a little bigger QB that can and has run the short yardage package in the CFL.
Pipkin is available.
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 08, 2024, 04:48:47 PMIf Strev down long term sure. Jake more realistic.
Strevler was on crutches following the game so that looks like it will be awhile that he is out.
Quote from: bwiser on September 08, 2024, 05:20:00 PMStrevler was on crutches following the game so that looks like it will be awhile that he is out.
I didn't know that thanks.
So far the list of possible replacements (I am making a list and keeping up to date from folks suggestions):
Jake D.
Pipkin
Fine
Taylor Cornelius
Prukop
Dolegala
Long shot
BLM
Maier
Powell
Maybe?
Matthew Shiltz
Chase Brice (was with BC)
NFL cut, neg. list, US college guy
Let's keep the list going fellas
Taylor Cornelius is who they should go after, he can run and decent passer, with better coaching he will be good
Get Dolegala in here.
Cornelius will be less on the SMS.
Quote from: Austin85 on September 08, 2024, 06:17:56 PMCornelius will be less on the SMS.
There's only 5 games left. The savings will be minimal.
True good point
Quote from: DM83 on September 08, 2024, 06:31:04 PMTrade for Dakota. He knows what he is doing in the sneaks and is a decent QB.
Not sure the trade would be worth it but hard to argue with you.
Prukop would be a trade to a division rival. Never happening as long as Edm has a shot at the playoffs.
Quote from: DM83 on September 08, 2024, 06:31:04 PMTrade for Dakota. He knows what he is doing in the sneaks and is a decent QB.
Hell No!
Quote from: Pigskin on September 08, 2024, 04:42:52 PMI would be okay with BLM, but I am a little concerned with Wilson on the short yardage. He did a good job yesterday, but at 6'3", 207, not sure how long he will last. I think if Strev is gone for awhile, we look at a little bigger QB that can and has run the short yardage package in the CFL.
Put Augustine in for short yardage plunge.
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 08, 2024, 08:44:21 PMPut Augustine in for short yardage plunge.
I noticed BC was using their fullback in short yardage situations. Might not be a bad idea.
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 08, 2024, 08:44:21 PMPut Augustine in for short yardage plunge.
Big difference between Mackie and JA27. Mackie 6'2" 252. JA27 5'9" 200.
I would think, assuming CS17 is out for a period of time and barring a trade, we will need to bring in a third QB during the bye week. Riding with only 2 seems dangerous.
Im ok with Dolegala as short-yardage QB.
Quote from: M.O.A.B. on September 09, 2024, 12:16:59 AMIm ok with Dolegala as short-yardage QB.
I'd nix that move, don't even think the Riders used him in that capacity, he's too tall. Corny wasn't great at it, but occasionally he could break outside and outrun all the little people.
Quote from: Waffler on September 08, 2024, 02:45:21 PMHe'd be a rental but I am sure he would finish this season here with the chance to get one more ring.
BLM isn't interested in getting a ring as #2, it'll hurt his feewings and tarnish his precious legacy. He might do it if Zach got a season-ender, though. If we were that desperate, sure, I'd swallow my pride and take him.
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 08, 2024, 05:22:38 PMI didn't know that thanks.
So far the list of possible replacements (I am making a list and keeping up to date from folks suggestions):
Jake D.
Pipkin
Fine
Taylor Cornelius
Long shot
BLM
Maybe?
Matthew Shiltz
Chase Brice (was with BC)
NFL cut, neg. list, US college guy
Prukop
Let's keep the list going fellas
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 08, 2024, 05:22:38 PMI didn't know that thanks.
So far the list of possible replacements (I am making a list and keeping up to date from folks suggestions):
Jake D.
Pipkin
Fine
Taylor Cornelius
Long shot
BLM
Maybe?
Matthew Shiltz
Chase Brice (was with BC)
NFL cut, neg. list, US college guy
Prukop
Let's keep the list going fellas
With Strev very possibly done for the season, Bombers will need a go to second stringer with experience in the league. My vote would be for Taylor Cornelius as he has had the best success from those listed so far.
CRITICAL: Strev is 2 QBs in one:
A. he's a legit .500 #1 if Zach gets hurt
B. he's a pretty good SY QB
Losing Strev means we just lost both. There is no other QB in the league that is as good at both that is unsigned or likely available (trade).
So that means anyone we will get only be one of A or B! So it is critical to identify what it is we need more.
The question is then: can Wilson do SY (B) well. We all know Wilson will not be a good injury-backup (A) right now (odds of that are maybe 10% because he's a rookie). From what I saw, Wilson looks ready to be good at SY. So let's say (B) is covered.
So that leaves (A): a legit #2 in case Zach goes down. We should 100% focus on this. So cross all the "SY specialists" and "turf-throwers" off the "maybe" list (so no Prukop-type guy).
With so few games left, we should be able to afford anyone we can find. And there's enough time before the post-season to get them up to speed. If we don't think we have the money, or no one is available (trade or couch) then we could roll with another rookie, but that's a huuuuge gamble and who's to say he'll be better than Wilson.
Out of the names mentioned, the only guys that fit this bill that have a hope in heck of being available (by any means) are: Powell, Schiltz, BLM, Masoli, Ford. Weaker options are: Corny, Pipkin. Everyone else is just SY or hot garbage and I'd rather run with Wilson as #2.
I would jump all over Powell as he was looking great this season and would be affordable in terms of trade-bait. That would assume he's not HAM's "future", of course. Masoli/BLM/Ford would take a miracle to get a trade arranged, but I list for completeness as there is a chance they aren't part of their teams' 2025 plans.
Jake Maier time?
I would like to see either Cornelius or Pigrome. To me it's gotta be a free agent and someone who can run!
Pigrome failed on his QB sneak opportunity here, but was a wrecking ball when asked to run the ball out of shotgun.
Cornelius was great at short yardage, and I think he would win about the same amount of games as Streveler would starting at QB.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 09, 2024, 08:48:02 AMCRITICAL: Strev is 2 QBs in one:
A. he's a legit .500 #1 if Zach gets hurt
B. he's a pretty good SY QB
Losing Strev means we just lost both. There is no other QB in the league that is as good at both that is unsigned or likely available (trade).
So that means anyone we will get only be one of A or B! So it is critical to identify what it is we need more.
The question is then: can Wilson do SY (B) well. We all know Wilson will not be a good injury-backup (A) right now (odds of that are maybe 10% because he's a rookie). From what I saw, Wilson looks ready to be good at SY. So let's say (B) is covered.
So that leaves (A): a legit #2 in case Zach goes down. We should 100% focus on this. So cross all the "SY specialists" and "turf-throwers" off the "maybe" list (so no Prukop-type guy).
With so few games left, we should be able to afford anyone we can find. And there's enough time before the post-season to get them up to speed. If we don't think we have the money, or no one is available (trade or couch) then we could roll with another rookie, but that's a huuuuge gamble and who's to say he'll be better than Wilson.
Out of the names mentioned, the only guys that fit this bill that have a hope in heck of being available (by any means) are: Powell, Schiltz, BLM, Masoli, Ford. Weaker options are: Corny, Pipkin. Everyone else is just SY or hot garbage and I'd rather run with Wilson as #2.
I would jump all over Powell as he was looking great this season and would be affordable in terms of trade-bait. That would assume he's not HAM's "future", of course. Masoli/BLM/Ford would take a miracle to get a trade arranged, but I list for completeness as there is a chance they aren't part of their teams' 2025 plans.
Some interesting points here. We have to be realistic about who we could get imo.
I'd expect a new QB to be signed this week.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 09, 2024, 08:26:48 AMBLM isn't interested in getting a ring as #2, it'll hurt his feewings and tarnish his precious legacy. He might do it if Zach got a season-ender, though. If we were that desperate, sure, I'd swallow my pride and take him.
Agreed. It would have a certain odour to it, but a cup is a cup
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on September 09, 2024, 04:33:37 PMIn Winnipeg? Never.
A couple of more losses and Calgary is out of it.
Wilson could be our short yardage QB. Maier is our back-up.
Unless BLM is available, Maier might be the best option.
Quote from: Ridermania on September 09, 2024, 03:22:21 PMI'd expect a new QB to be signed this week.
I'd love if they gave Piggie another try, he was never given a fair chance in Wpg., they dumped him as soon as Prukop came available and he endured too much chaos in Ottawa to accomplish anything positive. I think he's the kind of player that takes more patience to develop, but eventually the patience invested would be rewarded.
I'd rather give Wilson a shot at it. He might surprise us.
Quote from: peg_city on September 09, 2024, 04:45:33 PMA couple of more losses and Calgary is out of it.
Wilson could be our short yardage QB. Maier is our back-up.
Unless BLM is available, Maier might be the best option.
Not sure that's saying much but I see your point. I hope it doesn't come to that, anyway.
IF Strev. is determined to be out for the season....kinda looks like it....we do not need a project or a guy with big upside or potential....we need a guy who has some live game action under his belt, is accustomed to the speed etc. of the CFL and that can if needed to come in and "manage a game" with few mistakes.
Easier said then done...and let's be honest Ford, VAJ etc. are not going to be dealt to us....
We need a development QB behind Wilson.
If Streveler is out for any time, Wilson should be our #2 and get reps. We need an ELC AR rostered #3 and a PR #4 QB.
We have a strong QB room, and we need to get some bodies in the pipe that are not retreads, but fresh guys that want to come in and be the next one.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 09, 2024, 06:44:29 PMWe need a development QB behind Wilson.
If Streveler is out for any time, Wilson should be our #2 and get reps. We need an ELC AR rostered #3 and a PR #4 QB.
We have a strong QB room, and we need to get some bodies in the pipe that are not retreads, but fresh guys that want to come in and be the next one.
Wilson IS the dev. QB......we shouldn't care about next year and beyond....IF Strev is out we need a guy who can step in now with some CFL experience....I don't really care about the the pipe for the next 5-8 games...we can worry about the future after the season, today it's about replacing our #2
Quote from: theaardvark on September 09, 2024, 06:44:29 PMWe need a development QB behind Wilson.
If Streveler is out for any time, Wilson should be our #2 and get reps. We need an ELC AR rostered #3 and a PR #4 QB.
We have a strong QB room, and we need to get some bodies in the pipe that are not retreads, but fresh guys that want to come in and be the next one.
I like your vision. Sometimes need to focus on the future and hope the present works itself out.
Per three down nation:
3DownNation
@3DownNation
I like Cornelius if he's in game shape. We need someone with experience in the CFL game who can do short yardage and manage a game of needed. He was with the Esks/Elks during the wreckage and IMO never had the coaching even close to what he would get here.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 09, 2024, 06:44:29 PMWe need a development QB behind Wilson.
No we don't. Wilson
is the dev QB. We don't need 2. If you have 2 dev rookies then you have a 10% chance + a 10% chance of having someone that can win you anything, and at best it's probably .500. That doesn't win cups.
In week 15 we must now only focus on the playoff run.
Quote from: peg_city on September 09, 2024, 07:49:04 PMPer three down nation:
This is fine, we have a hole right now and this is the fastest way to fill it. I don't take this as any indication that we won't still got legit #2 shopping (couch, trade). This is just what we can do
right now.
Quote from: jdrattops on September 09, 2024, 07:52:53 PMI like Cornelius if he's in game shape. We need someone with experience in the CFL game who can do short yardage and manage a game of needed. He was with the Esks/Elks during the wreckage and IMO never had the coaching even close to what he would get here.
We need a smart QB. Corny, I'm convinced, is basically a box of nails. He has the tools in spades but absolutely no mental awareness or feel for the game. Kind of like Dom Davis. Maybe they can be ok SY QBs, but they make horrible starters.
Nichols was smart. Zach is smart. We need someone smart.
Quote from: peg_city on September 09, 2024, 04:45:33 PMA couple of more losses and Calgary is out of it.
Wilson could be our short yardage QB. Maier is our back-up.
Unless BLM is available, Maier might be the best option.
Quote from: peg_city on September 09, 2024, 12:14:53 PMJake Maier time?
Maier would be a 100% perfect fit as a WPG #2. However, he's probably $400k-ish level, right? Maybe we could squeak that through the SMS with only 6 games left??
It would only work if Dickenson The Greater truly is done with Maier in his mind. I think he is. And the trade ask might not be huge, because CGY would shed/save just as much SMS as it would cost us. With the savings CGY could go get guys they think will help the future.
That said, my first choice would be HAM's Powell. I think he's ready for primetime and may surprise to the upside and be even better than Maier.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 09, 2024, 09:53:07 PMWe need a smart QB. Corny, I'm convinced, is basically a box of nails. He has the tools in spades but absolutely no mental awareness or feel for the game. Kind of like Dom Davis. Maybe they can be ok SY QBs, but they make horrible starters.
Nichols was smart. Zach is smart. We need someone smart.
I'm still putting some of the smarts on the coaching he received while in Edmonton. We also need someone who can get us a yard, which he was more than capable of doing over his short career.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 09, 2024, 09:56:54 PMMaier would be a 100% perfect fit as a WPG #2. However, he's probably $400k-ish level, right? Maybe we could squeak that through the SMS with only 6 games left??
It would only work if Dickenson The Greater truly is done with Maier in his mind. I think he is. And the trade ask might not be huge, because CGY would shed/save just as much SMS as it would cost us. With the savings CGY could go get guys they think will help the future.
That said, my first choice would be HAM's Powell. I think he's ready for primetime and may surprise to the upside and be even better than Maier.
Dickenson has got to figure out what the heck he's doing. He ran BLM out of town for Maier and now he's running Maier out of town for Bonner?? Bonner isn't #1 material, not now, not ever. He's the one that wanted Maier, so stick with him during his rutt like MOS did with Collaros and work yourself out of this rutt. I'd even put Tommy Stevens in over Bonner.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 09, 2024, 09:49:58 PMNo we don't. Wilson is the dev QB. We don't need 2. If you have 2 dev rookies then you have a 10% chance + a 10% chance of having someone that can win you anything, and at best it's probably .500. That doesn't win cups.
In week 15 we must now only focus on the playoff run.
A hard debate. If the club believes in Wilson so do I. If they don't think he is ready to be a #2, then bring in someone with experience. The coaches and management would have a pretty good idea on this. If Strev can heal up might be ok. A tough spot and no easy answer imo. They might not know the deal on Strev for a few weeks.
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 10, 2024, 01:49:17 AMA hard debate. If the club believes in Wilson so do I. If they don't think he is ready to be a #2, then bring in someone with experience. The coaches and management would have a pretty good idea on this. If Strev can heal up might be ok. A tough spot and no easy answer imo. They might not know the deal on Strev for a few weeks.
Agree with everything here, just cautious about the last point myself. It is very likely they know exactly what they are dealing with for Strev's injury. That should not be difficult.
Quote from: Big Daddy on September 10, 2024, 02:13:10 AMAgree with everything here, just cautious about the last point myself. It is very likely they know exactly what they are dealing with for Strev's injury. That should not be difficult.
They know what the injury is but the healing time can vary is what I meant. But yes, they will have a very good intial idea of what they are dealing with. Earlier in his career he played hurt. Not so sure he would be as willing now as he could jeopardize his future earning potential and also his post football lifestyle. He is a warrior, sure hope he is a quick healer for whatever he has injuried.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 09, 2024, 09:56:54 PMMaier would be a 100% perfect fit as a WPG #2. However, he's probably $400k-ish level, right? Maybe we could squeak that through the SMS with only 6 games left??
That said, my first choice would be HAM's Powell. I think he's ready for primetime and may surprise to the upside and be even better than Maier.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 09, 2024, 09:56:54 PMMaier would be a 100% perfect fit as a WPG #2. However, he's probably $400k-ish level, right? Maybe we could squeak that through the SMS with only 6 games left??
It would only work if Dickenson The Greater truly is done with Maier in his mind. I think he is. And the trade ask might not be huge, because CGY would shed/save just as much SMS as it would cost us. With the savings CGY could go get guys they think will help the future.
That said, my first choice would be HAM's Powell. I think he's ready for primetime and may surprise to the upside and be even better than Maier.
Maier reworked his contract so that he got a 150,000 signing bonus, with a salary that's only 189,000. So for 6 games, we could likely find a way to afford him. Having said that, I'm not sure they would let him go until they are eliminated. I don't think he's great, but there's not much out there that is.
Powell was extended to 2025 by Hamilton. They won't trade him, I think they see him as a potential future starter for them.
Quote from: jdrattops on September 09, 2024, 10:56:43 PMI'm still putting some of the smarts on the coaching he received while in Edmonton. We also need someone who can get us a yard, which he was more than capable of doing over his short career.
Do we? Wilson did 2 SY I think after Strev got hurt. He did it just as good as Strev. Small sample size, but dude is 6'3 207 lbs, so should have the tools, I'm guessing/hoping.
Mafia will know if they think he can handle SY. Mafia won't know if he can step into a game and light it up like Dru did in his 3rd year -- no one can know that until it happens -- but the raw odds are not in his favor. The odds would be much higher if he was in his 2nd/3rd year with us like Dru was.
If Wilson can't handle SY
and he isn't some magical unicorn who is a legit starter in his rookie season, then we are in a world of hurt. That would mean we need to find 2 vet guys and Wilson goes to PR as the future project.
That's why, until I hear otherwise, I'll assume Mafia will use Wilson as SY and go shopping for an established #2. Or we don't, and we stand pat, and sacrifice chickens to the volcano to keep Zach from getting injured.
Quote from: dd on September 10, 2024, 01:28:52 AMDickenson has got to figure out what the heck he's doing. He ran BLM out of town for Maier and now he's running Maier out of town for Bonner?? Bonner isn't #1 material, not now, not ever.
Bonner isn't #1 now, but he may be in 2 more seasons. No one can tell after 1 game. I bet Wilson would look exactly the same if we thrust him into #1 in his rookie season. Almost every rookie QB would.
Remember, most of the unknown QBs who step in and look great are 3rd+ year players, or at the very least 2nd year. They have been in the system and learning behind great #1s. It's not some magic and luck they are good... they've been groomed for it. And many/most still fail even then!
Quote from: dd on September 10, 2024, 01:28:52 AMHe's the one that wanted Maier, so stick with him during his rutt like MOS did with Collaros and work yourself out of this rutt. I'd even put Tommy Stevens in over Bonner.
They can't. Is this nearly 3 seasons starting Maier now, or 2? Doesn't matter. No one thinks Maier will take CGY to the cup. Maier is barely able to get you .500. Strev could do better than that! For 1/4 the price! And added fan excitement! Maier excites no one.
Dickenson The Greater's job is on the line here, and the move was forced. Fans were sick of Maier, and I bet the players were too. If Dickie misses the playoffs this season after having very bad seasons in the previous two, then they'll likely oust him unless he's somehow secured Dictator For Life status. In that case they'll just watch the stands become emptier and emptier.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was on the blower right now shopping for legit win-capable QBs for a trade, kind of like we are. But they'll have an eye to 2025 whereas we only need a short term rental because Zach is clearly the guy next year.
Dickenson The Greater tied his wagon to Maier, really believe in him as a cerebral medium-talent low-athleticism decent-price solution. I think it was a reasonable gamble, it just didn't pay off in the end. There is no good answer for "right now" for them, but it's best to cut bait and go cold turkey and see what they can come up with as the future #1.
Maier should make a very good career being the #2 on any other team.
Quote from: bunker on September 10, 2024, 02:25:30 AMMaier reworked his contract so that he got a 150,000 signing bonus, with a salary that's only 189,000. So for 6 games, we could likely find a way to afford him. Having said that, I'm not sure they would let him go until they are eliminated. I don't think he's great, but there's not much out there that is.
I think Dickie gives Maier until seasons end to turn things around, he's not going to trade or cut him with only Bonner and Stevens left on the roster. Maier has clearly fallen short of this year's goal of improved performance, if he can't become a good QB in the Stamps system you have to wonder if he can become a good QB at all.
Can't quite figure out the scenario in Calgary but it never seems management is under much pressure because neither the fans or the owner seems to care nowdays, it's kind of like a hobby football club.
Quote from: bunker on September 10, 2024, 02:25:30 AMMaier reworked his contract so that he got a 150,000 signing bonus, with a salary that's only 189,000. So for 6 games, we could likely find a way to afford him. Having said that, I'm not sure they would let him go until they are eliminated. I don't think he's great, but there's not much out there that is.
Unless CGY signs Masoli or Powell from HAM tomorrow, I really don't see CGY winning anything else this season. So I think everyone would consider them eliminated. With EDM rising, even SSK thinks they may miss the playoffs because of them, and SSK is miles better than CGY.
Dickenson The Greater isn't stupid: he'll already know if 2024 is hopeless and if so will smartly adjust the entire plan to 2025 right now. That means forgetting about hoarding assets that help 2024 but are useless in 2025 (i.e. Maier). If he isn't ousted at the end of this year, he will be if he can't improve the team in 2025!!
Quote from: bunker on September 10, 2024, 02:25:30 AMPowell was extended to 2025 by Hamilton. They won't trade him, I think they see him as a potential future starter for them.
I agree. HAM will be dumping BLM in FA, who will retire. Then they either put all their eggs in Powell (who might do well!), or they'll be aggressively shopping for a VAJ-like answer in FA.
But there is a chance they've already decided Powell won't be win-capable enough in 2025... and they really need to start winning then or Milanovitch may lose his job. Remember, HAM has been sucking badly since the '21 GC loss. Fans get restless after that long a lull.
My point being that there is a chance HAM will let Powell go, so we might as well ask them. However, if we trade, then we may have trouble dumping him in the off-season? Doubt we can afford him + Zach... though that would be very intriguing going into 2026 if we could!!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 10, 2024, 02:40:48 AMI think Dickie gives Maier until seasons end to turn things around, he's not going to trade or cut him with only Bonner and Stevens left on the roster. Maier has clearly fallen short of this year's goal of improved performance, if he can't become a good QB in the Stamps system you have to wonder if he can become a good QB at all.
Can't quite figure out the scenario in Calgary but it never seems management is under much pressure because neither the fans or the owner seems to care nowdays, it's kind of like a hobby football club.
Funniest thing I read today - thanks TLB
Maier will be out of Calgary by the end of season. Dickenson will drop the HC position, Killam will take the role he's been groomed for, and Dave will go all in on Adams next season, and Adams/Stevens could be a deadly combo.
As far as we go, I'd prefer we not sign any of the Rider rejects (Fine, Dolegala, etc), they all strike me as Goltz/Brink 2024. Cornelius - maybe.
I think we move away from Strev in the off season, and Zach will be done after 25, if Wilson is the heir apparent let's see what he's got. Banking on him for this years playoff run feels like Dinwiddie Deja vu.
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 10, 2024, 02:58:24 AMMaier will be out of Calgary by the end of season. Dickenson will drop the HC position, Killam will take the role he's been groomed for, and Dave will go all in on Adams next season, and Adams/Stevens could be a deadly combo.
100% agreement, though Dickenson may try to hold out as HC until '26? 50/50 shot?
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 10, 2024, 02:58:24 AMAs far as we go, I'd prefer we not sign any of the Rider rejects (Fine, Dolegala, etc), they all strike me as Goltz/Brink 2024. Cornelius - maybe.
200% agreement, SSK sucks at id'ing dev'ing rookie QBs. Even worse than us! (At least we did Dru in the last 1-2 decades!)
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 10, 2024, 02:58:24 AMI think we move away from Strev in the off season, and Zach will be done after 25, if Wilson is the heir apparent let's see what he's got. Banking on him for this years playoff run feels like Dinwiddie Deja vu.
300% agreement, if Wilson is thrust in suddenly in the playoffs we're doomed. The team simply isn't good enough this season to win without a very capable QB. We go deep and/or win the cup only if the entirety of the team is 100% on point.
I think we stick with Strev for '25 unless this injury situation stretches into week 1 or our upcoming #2 vet pickup is affordable and highly capable. I don't think other teams will bother outbidding for Strev, so we can keep him cheap, and he's still the best combo #2/SY QB out there at the moment.
Stevens is a better short yardage QB than Streveler. The blue coloured glasses from 2019 are fading.
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 10, 2024, 03:16:30 AMStevens is a better short yardage QB than Streveler. The blue coloured glasses from 2019 are fading.
Maybe, probably. But again, with Strev we get a #2
and a SY guy (2-for-1!) for $110k. Name me one other of player that does that!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 10, 2024, 04:34:15 AMMaybe, probably. But again, with Strev we get a #2 and a SY guy (2-for-1!) for $110k. Name me one other of player that does that!
Not too many people have much faith in Strev as a #2 anymore.
Wilson is 6'3", 203, so I'm assuming he can be our short yardage QB
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 10, 2024, 04:34:15 AMMaybe, probably. But again, with Strev we get a #2 and a SY guy (2-for-1!) for $110k. Name me one other of player that does that!
Ford, Crum and Patterson I would argue can all throw the ball better, and also handle short yardage duties.
I think teams prefer to have their 3rd string run QB sneaks, and their 2nd string stays ready to come into the game if needed.
Quote from: Jesse on September 10, 2024, 11:02:50 AMNot too many people have much faith in Strev as a #2 anymore.
You have to factor in the injuries/changes to our Oline though.
Quote from: ModAdmin on September 10, 2024, 04:01:03 PMYou have to factor in the injuries/changes to our Oline though.
I'd factor in play-calling, too. As OC, LaPolice appeared to give more leash to Streveler in 2019 than Pierce does this season.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on September 10, 2024, 04:24:11 PMI'd factor in play-calling, too. As OC, LaPolice appeared to give more leash to Streveler in 2019 than Pierce does this season.
The elephant in the room for the whole season. Buck not putting Streveler in a position where he can succeed.
Quote from: peg_city on September 10, 2024, 04:33:57 PMThe elephant in the room for the whole season. Buck not putting Streveler in a position where he can succeed.
Agree. I said this in an earlier post. Strev was much better under Lapo.
Quote from: Pigskin on September 10, 2024, 04:37:50 PMAgree. I said this in an earlier post. Strev was much better under Lapo.
It's laughable, so many fans claimed Buck was the genius behind the GC wins and LaPo was stagnating and holding the offence back.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 10, 2024, 04:44:18 PMIt's laughable, so many fans claimed Buck was the genius behind the GC wins and LaPo was stagnating and holding the offence back.
100%
In the SY role, Strev did way more under Lapo. Though, ironically, Strev was being allowed to do more until the injury in the Banjo Bowl.
As a back-up, Strev was the exact same ineffective passer in 2019 as he is today.
Strev is good at short yardage. The criticism on him in that regard is overstated imo.
Lapo was a great OC. Buck is good and will be great one day likely.
Streveler can throw, the dime he dropped into Harris in the GC... well... its right at the end of the highlight reel below.
I counted 10 different receivers he threw TD's to, Woli being his favourite target, but the throws all look pretty darned good. Watch the "all TD's by Streveler" full reel, its worth it.
No news yet on the seriousness of the Streveler injury? No news of an airlift of another QB to the PR? If he can't play in the next game we have to do something soon.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 10, 2024, 08:24:04 PMNo news yet on the seriousness of the Streveler injury? No news of an airlift of another QB to the PR? If he can't play in the next game we have to do something soon.
Agree. Maybe a trade that is taking some time or maybe Strev will not be gone long? It is unthinkable to play with 2 QB's, one brand new to the league and the other not so durable in recent games.
OK, another question. Jake Thomas is our emergency Olineman. Who is our emergency QB?
Quote from: theaardvark on September 10, 2024, 09:51:36 PMOK, another question. Jake Thomas is our emergency Olineman. Who is our emergency QB?
Great question. Maybe someone will emerge chucking the ball a bit at practice.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 10, 2024, 09:51:36 PMOK, another question. Jake Thomas is our emergency Olineman. Who is our emergency QB?
Willie Jefferson lol :)
Seriously, you have to have 3 QB's on the roster by rule IIRC even if one doesn't actually dress. Lions were doing that with Adams as an example.
We're in our bye at the moment so if Strev will be back for the 2nd of the back to back with Edmonton then maybe that happens.
It's a wait and see what happens in the next few days.
If we bring in another QB for the PR then that is a bad indication of longer term injury. I've read some of the thoughts about trading for a QB but not a lot of teams have a # 4 QB that allows them to do that. That would create the same problem for them.
Besides they're all holding out demanding Josh Johnson in trade and you know O'Shea won't do that. :) :) :)
I'm thinking it is Demski or Wolitarski, although it could be a DB...
Quote from: theaardvark on September 10, 2024, 10:21:12 PMI'm thinking it is Demski or Wolitarski, although it could be a DB...
An emergency QB is when disaster happens in game. We've seen 2 QB's on some teams get injured during the same game.
I wouldn't expect to see that overlap into a next game situation. That might happen is a # 1 went down and the # 2 took over as starter the following week.
It's less frequent to see the # 2 possibly knocked off the roster. It happens but less often.
Our # 3 is a rookie so we're caught between a rock and a hard place. That would be true even if we had another rookie on our PR all season.
It's not that I like Dolegala but he seems to be the most easily available and has recent starting experience.
Chris Streveler posted on Instagram that he tore 3 of the 4 major ligaments in his knee.
"Although this will be a long road to recovery, this isn't the end of my journey."
Quote from: Stats Junkie on September 10, 2024, 10:45:11 PMChris Streveler posted on Instagram that he tore 3 of the 4 major ligaments in his knee.
"Although this will be a long road to recovery, this isn't the end of my journey."
Terrible news. Was hoping for better. Wish him well.
Quote from: Stats Junkie on September 10, 2024, 10:45:11 PMChris Streveler posted on Instagram that he tore 3 of the 4 major ligaments in his knee.
"Although this will be a long road to recovery, this isn't the end of my journey."
This is terrible news for him, and I'm sorry to hear that for him. Injuring that many ligaments in the knee is potentially career-ending.
Quote from: Jesse on September 10, 2024, 11:02:50 AMNot too many people have much faith in Strev as a #2 anymore.
Mafia does. When Zach missed a game, who did Mafia start? Wilson or Strev? Strev.
When Zach was injured in-game a couple of times, who came in in relief? Strev.
And who got us our first win of the season when nothing was going right and our team looked awful? Strev.
I understand why people are reticent to admit Strev is our #2: many think he still "can't throw", he's weird, his play is entirely unconventional. But you're blind and crazy if you didn't think he was
the de facto #2 and SY guy in 1 player.
And if by some miracle he's still healthy, he'll still be the de facto #2.
Quote from: LXTSN on September 10, 2024, 01:15:56 PMFord, Crum and Patterson I would argue can all throw the ball better, and also handle short yardage duties.
Ford is puny and a horrible SY. He's like that Loxley guy that disappeared fast. Patterson is completely the wrong body type and also stunk at SY. (But Ford and Patterson might be decent #1's eventually, maybe.)
So I'll give you Crum as another dual-threat QB. He's like a less-capable Powell. But he could maybe possibly have a future as a #1. Maybe. He should go on the list of options, especially if we don't believe Wilson will be good at SY.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 10, 2024, 10:13:42 PMWe're in our bye at the moment so if Strev will be back for the 2nd of the back to back with Edmonton then maybe that happens.
Hodge said on the 3 podcast that he was in the tunnel with Strev post-game and Strev had a long moment with his head on his fiance. Seemed to him like one of those season-ending emotional things.
Quote from: peg_city on September 10, 2024, 04:33:57 PMThe elephant in the room for the whole season. Buck not putting Streveler in a position where he can succeed.
Funny that the very first time Buck lets Strev throw on SY he gets creamed and possibly season-ended. We can't have any luck, can we?
BTW, that throw would have been a perfect one had he not been hit in the middle of the motion. A nice circus diver for Kenny.
Quote from: Stats Junkie on September 10, 2024, 10:45:11 PMChris Streveler posted on Instagram that he tore 3 of the 4 major ligaments in his knee.
Horrible news. Even worse than I feared after all the pics came out.
I'm glad they got this news out. I would hope the league takes this into account when deciding on the punishment for Brown. The wrap around arm, and the pulling, twisting, pushing, weight-thrusting: every one of those extra things he did resulted in more and more damage to the knee. It was unnecessary and excessive and it has now crippled a fan-favorite QB.
Quote from: Stats Junkie on September 10, 2024, 10:45:11 PMChris Streveler posted on Instagram that he tore 3 of the 4 major ligaments in his knee.
"Although this will be a long road to recovery, this isn't the end of my journey."
That is terrible! I feel so bad for him.
https://3downnation.com/2024/09/10/montreal-alouettes-release-former-nfl-qb-james-morgan/
Anyone know him?
So why aren't we calling Jake Dolegala, 6'7" 242 lbs and has CFL experience, as our #3??
I figured calling Calgary and saying we'd take Maier as our #3 Qb if they pick up the salary would be cold....
Quote from: dd on September 10, 2024, 11:32:05 PMSo why aren't we calling Jake Dolegala, 6'7" 242 lbs and has CFL experience, as our #3??
Really really not liking that idea. I'd even roll the dice with Wilson for 2 games (and him sucking) before settling for Dolegala. No to any ex-Rider. They'll ask for $70k bonus and then retire. Riderfans already getting excited that will happen again.
So many better QBs warming benches right now. All it will take is some creativity in a trade.
Or... we just stand pat and all pray for Zach. This is the Mafia: there does often seem to be a lot of praying and "standing pat" going on. We're getting all worked up, but they may be sitting there looking at the still-bare SMS cupboard.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 10, 2024, 11:36:07 PMReally really not liking that idea. I'd even roll the dice with Wilson for 2 games (and him sucking) before settling for Dolegala. No to any ex-Rider. They'll ask for $70k bonus and then retire. Riderfans already getting excited that will happen again.
So many better QBs warming benches right now. All it will take is some creativity in a trade.
Or... we just stand pat and all pray for Zach. This is the Mafia: there does often seem to be a lot of praying and "standing pat" going on. We're getting all worked up, but they may be sitting there looking at the still-bare SMS cupboard.
We don't know who they are calling and I'm sure they are racking up the long distance lol
I think dolegala is the best bet from those available.
https://3downnation.com/2024/09/10/winnipeg-blue-bombers-qb-chris-streveler-suffered-three-ligament-tears-in-banjo-bowl/
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 10, 2024, 11:36:07 PMReally really not liking that idea. I'd even roll the dice with Wilson for 2 games (and him sucking) before settling for Dolegala. No to any ex-Rider. They'll ask for $70k bonus and then retire. Riderfans already getting excited that will happen again.
So many better QBs warming benches right now. All it will take is some creativity in a trade.
Or... we just stand pat and all pray for Zach. This is the Mafia: there does often seem to be a lot of praying and "standing pat" going on. We're getting all worked up, but they may be sitting there looking at the still-bare SMS cupboard.
You really weren't around for the Dinwiddie GC, were you?
As far as SMS space goes, we've had a top tier receiver on the IR for the entire season and the highest paid receiver in the league only collect 2/3 of his SMS. There's money there for a QB. And if not, Marketing money works for BC....
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 11, 2024, 01:21:37 AMYou really weren't around for the Dinwiddie GC, were you?
Ya, I wasn't a fan during the Dinwiddie debacle. Had a gap there while I was establishing my "real" (non-football) life :D :D :D
However, I know all the stories, and I can guess & empathize with the pain.
Well the next few days will be interesting.
Cornelius, Dolegala, Fine... bring someone in that has some experience. I'm cool with Wilson being the no.2 if the brass like him... but if anything happens to ZC we need to have an option with some experience just in case.
And I've told you guys repeatedly and will remind you all once again that this league and its officials will do NOTHING to help the Winnipeg Blue Bombers. There are no tears being shed over Chris Streveler's knee at CFL headquarters. In fact, they are probably quite happy about it as it adds to the difficulties of this team playing in a fifth straight Grey Cup. In fact, I guarantee that Brown will play with impunity and go after Collaros' head if the two teams meet in the post season.
Miles Brown is a turd.
Dave naylor says Bryan Scott and dolegala are on the way to Winnipeg
Quote from: The Zipp on September 11, 2024, 01:26:35 PMDave naylor says Bryan Scott and dolegala are on the way to Winnipeg
Both?
Free Press reporting:
Options include Jake Dolegala or
Bryan Scott, both of whom were released earlier this season, from the
B.C. Lions and Toronto Argonauts, respectively.
Sources tell the _Free Press_ the club is interested in Dolegala and
talks of a potential contract have already started.
Yeah Naylor did tweet that both Scott and Dolegala are en route
I think it's smart to bring in a couple of QBs.
I think Dolegala is our best option.
Wilson can handle short yardage, Scott is a better fit to compete for a starters role down the line. I really did not like Dolegala in any of his games this year, he looked horrible. And at 6'7, I'm not sure that alone makes him better in short yardage than Wilson. BC let him go, keeping Brice.
I think we should go to FB for SY before bringing in a Dolegala for SY.
If they do sign him to the AR, I hope that I am proved wrong, but I think Scott is a more interesting prospect.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 11, 2024, 04:28:58 PMWilson can handle short yardage, Scott is a better fit to compete for a starters role down the line. I really did not like Dolegala in any of his games this year, he looked horrible. And at 6'7, I'm not sure that alone makes him better in short yardage than Wilson.
I think we should go to FB for SY before bringing in a Dolegala for SY.
If they do sign him to the AR, I hope that I am proved wrong, but I think Scott is a more interesting prospect.
Someone else pointed out in another thread he's already 29. I think we're still looking or long term options. But that's next's year's problem anyway.
Quote from: blue_or_die on September 11, 2024, 02:57:21 PMI think Dolegala is our best option.
He can surely handle the SY duties, so I agree.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 11, 2024, 04:28:58 PMWilson can handle short yardage, Scott is a better fit to compete for a starters role down the line. I really did not like Dolegala in any of his games this year, he looked horrible. And at 6'7, I'm not sure that alone makes him better in short yardage than Wilson. BC let him go, keeping Brice.
I think we should go to FB for SY before bringing in a Dolegala for SY.
If they do sign him to the AR, I hope that I am proved wrong, but I think Scott is a more interesting prospect.
It wouldn't be the worst idea using a FB that had some athletic skill. OTOH, we don't have a healthy one available and both are new to the roster this year.
Feltmate seems to be more of a defensive and ST player so I wouldn't think he'd do well in that role.
Chris-Ike might do alright but that's an unknown.
I agree that Scott might be a better option as # 2 in the longer term. However, Dolegala has the most current experience actually playing rather than just on the bench.
In the immediate term, Wilson is going to be the # 2 this week. Someone has to learn the playbook and develops chemistry with the offence.
Hard to say who adapts the quickest but I'd have to think Dolegala will do that for the 2nd game against the Elks.
Just a guess at the moment. Wilson could surprise us if he's called into action early.
Hoping Maier or BLM become available. Dolegala has proven to be a statue in the pocket. I mean, it could be worse, but could be better...
Quote from: peg_city on September 11, 2024, 04:59:39 PMHoping Maier or BLM become available. Dolegala has proven to be a statue in the pocket. I mean, it could be worse, but could be better...
Hard pass on both. Unless you have a time machine to return them to their past playing days. Not sure what Maier is suffering from, but he's been going downhill since they moved on from BLM. And BLM, well...
Quote from: theaardvark on September 11, 2024, 05:10:06 PMAnd BLM, well...
...is only the leading passer in the league and has 3X the passing TDs than ZC.
And an ego and a chip on his shoulder, and given the chance to prove it, would likely absolutely slay. Think Burris in the Ottawa GC only better.
Yeah, we definitely shouldn't make a play for him.
He must have winked at a lot of posters GFs...
No one is trading their 2nd string QB or even their 3rd stringer to us. We need to pick from the QB's who aren't signed ATM.
See Bryan Scott thread. Not official yet...
https://forums.bluebombers.com/index.php?topic=56007.0
https://3downnation.com/2024/09/11/winnipeg-blue-bombers-to-sign-qbs-jake-dolegala-bryan-scott/
Buddy said "Radio said they are on there way to try out. I took that as they only plan on signing 1. They could be wrong"
See no point in signing both, can't play both and don't need 4 QB's, pick the better fit of the two and stick with the plan.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 11, 2024, 08:18:18 PMSee no point in signing both, can't play both and don't need 4 QB's, pick the better fit of the two and stick with the plan.
You have to sign them to try them out. One may only last a week on the PR or may both may get a little longer. A final decision doesn't have to happen in a short time.
Quote from: Blue In BC on September 11, 2024, 08:35:27 PMYou have to sign them to try them out. One may only last a week on the PR or may both may get a little longer. A final decision doesn't have to happen in a short time.
Sounds like they are coming in for a tryout, does that require signing a contract?
I'd like to see a nice competition between the backups, with Wilson in the mix.
Quote from: blue_or_die on September 11, 2024, 02:57:21 PMI think Dolegala is our best option.
No, he's the easiest option. This is the low-hanging fruit, low effort, low energy option: because he is the only one unsigned.
All the other ideas would require extensive trade negotiations, and us actually giving up something of value.
This could be a stop-gap measure to tide us over should Zach get hurt for 0.5 to 2 games. If that happens we could
then do the hard negotiations to trade for a real QB that we would really need in that situation.
Who here wants to roll with Dolegala as #1 into the playoffs should it come to that? Ya, no one.
AND DON'T GIVE HIM A SIGNING BONUS!! HE'S A RIDER!!
Quote from: TBURGESS on September 11, 2024, 05:27:40 PMNo one is trading their 2nd string QB or even their 3rd stringer to us. We need to pick from the QB's who aren't signed ATM.
Yes they will, if:
1) They are almost certainly out of the playoffs (so HAM, maybe CGY), and as each loss piles up for bad teams, this becomes more realistic.
2) They have given up on a guy and just want him gone (possibly Maier).
3) They have a young guy looking so good they don't need the ageing vet anymore (possibly Masoli, and whoever MTL's #3/#4 are).
Scott was good in the pre-season, and went 5 for 5 in his only action in regular season. I am interested in getting a look at Scott in practice next week.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 11, 2024, 09:22:03 PMYes they will, if:
1) They are almost certainly out of the playoffs (so HAM, maybe CGY), and as each loss piles up for bad teams, this becomes more realistic.
2) They have given up on a guy and just want him gone (possibly Maier).
3) They have a young guy looking so good they don't need the ageing vet anymore (possibly Masoli, and whoever MTL's #3/#4 are).
Then we're back to trading something of value for someone we a) may never need and b) may only be slightly better than what we have, if better at all.
It might not be for the betterment of the team.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 11, 2024, 09:22:03 PMYes they will, if:
1) They are almost certainly out of the playoffs (so HAM, maybe CGY), and as each loss piles up for bad teams, this becomes more realistic.
2) They have given up on a guy and just want him gone (possibly Maier).
3) They have a young guy looking so good they don't need the ageing vet anymore (possibly Masoli, and whoever MTL's #3/#4 are).
1. Why would being out of the playoffs make any difference?
2. Maier will be starting this week.
3. I'll believe that when I see it.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 11, 2024, 09:18:00 PMAND DON'T GIVE HIM A SIGNING BONUS!! HE'S A RIDER!!
As was Demski
And Willy
And Neufeld
And Zach
If players could only be evaluated on their ability instead of something one guy did a half a decade ago (and he was an Alouette when he did it and Dolegala was a Lion last, but far be it from facts contributing to a narrative), imagine the quality of discussion we could have.
Quote from: TBURGESS on September 11, 2024, 10:19:23 PM1. Why would being out of the playoffs make any difference?
2. Maier will be starting this week.
3. I'll believe that when I see it.
We all know that teams are much more amicable to trades once they are eliminated or near-eliminated. Why? Because after that they can forget about this season and worry about next year, which means they can trade quality backup pieces (like QBs) and other players that are not part of the future plan.
For instance, carrying a high-value #2 QB is useful when you're in GC contention, but useless or detrimental when you're eliminated and that guy is someone who isn't your future #1 and is likely to be too costly retain in FA anyhow. Or that #2 may be up for a new contract in FA and you know you can't afford him.
For example, if BC was eliminated tomorrow, they'd be happy to trade VAJ away for massive DPs and players they need (assuming VAJ is not the #1 in BC next year). Probably the same for Masoli, and one of Powell/BLM.
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 12, 2024, 06:31:54 AMIf players could only be evaluated on their ability instead of something one guy did a half a decade ago (and he was an Alouette when he did it and Dolegala was a Lion last, but far be it from facts contributing to a narrative), imagine the quality of discussion we could have.
You ever heard of "once bitten, twice shy"?
Durant is a SSK hero and legend not just for winning them a cup, but also for screwing over WPG via a $70k SMS hit. They bring it up regularly on Riderfans. They just love him for sticking it to us, and would (and do) encourage every single player to rip us off the same way before they retire.
Ya, I wouldn't put it past an ex-Rider to do this to us again in the future. What will you say if that happens again? Oh well, dems da breakz?
All I'm saying is don't give them signing bonuses, nothing else. We can do everything you say, just don't stick our nose out for $70k to get it cut off. Is that not prudent?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 12, 2024, 10:52:53 AMYou ever heard of "once bitten, twice shy"?
Durant is a SSK hero and legend not just for winning them a cup, but also for screwing over WPG via a $70k SMS hit. They bring it up regularly on Riderfans. They just love him for sticking it to us, and would (and do) encourage every single player to rip us off the same way before they retire.
Ya, I wouldn't put it past an ex-Rider to do this to us again in the future. What will you say if that happens again? Oh well, dems da breakz?
All I'm saying is don't give them signing bonuses, nothing else. We can do everything you say, just don't stick our nose out for $70k to get it cut off. Is that not prudent?
None issue handled internally
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 12, 2024, 10:52:53 AMYou ever heard of "once bitten, twice shy"?
Durant is a SSK hero and legend not just for winning them a cup, but also for screwing over WPG via a $70k SMS hit. They bring it up regularly on Riderfans. They just love him for sticking it to us, and would (and do) encourage every single player to rip us off the same way before they retire.
Ya, I wouldn't put it past an ex-Rider to do this to us again in the future. What will you say if that happens again? Oh well, dems da breakz?
All I'm saying is don't give them signing bonuses, nothing else. We can do everything you say, just don't stick our nose out for $70k to get it cut off. Is that not prudent?
I have. Rock In Power Jack Russell.
Your statements are ludicrous. First off, Dolegala won't be getting a bonus because he's currently unsigned. Secondly, he's not a Rider, but if you're going to hyper generalize any player because at one point in his career he suited up for Saskatchewan, well, you need the kind of assistance that isn't available here. Can't wait for Milligan to hit free agency and you to pull out the soap box and go "He's no goode, he's a Rider." Respect the ability and take the blinders off, it's not a good look. Thirdly, it happened once. The Bombers have paid hundreds of thousands if not millions in bonuses since with no issue. If we follow your "logic" because of an isolated incident, we can't function in FA. Hell, Zach has a guaranteed quarter mill next year which he definitely is not living up to this season, and he's an ex Rider. And finally, the only thing Riderfans is good for is watching them eat their own during their annual Labour Day losing streak. Cornish used to troll them hard, and they all would have cut off their arms to get him on the team.
If you think Jake Dolegala, a young QB with a lot of runway left and a need to prove himself, is going to pander to fan base which did not treat him well for 10 grand and nuke the likelihood of anyone else ever signing him, well, maybe you need to hang out at RF a lot more. Seems to be something A51 would have opined on in their prime.
Do I think Dolegala is great? No, I don't even know if he's good. But Streveler is likely done til 2026 if not for good, and Zach only has a season left in him at best so we need to get some options in play immediately.
This thread sure went sideways. Jee-zus.
Maybe get off Riderfans. That forum is a cesspit of braindead losers - no wonder they all love Durant.
Get off the riders? Whats the fun on that?
Its so much fun listening to all their ludicrous conspiracy theories and delusions even When the facts stare them in the face. Whenever they lose its the cfl is out to get them its not;
Our team had a punt blocked and a ball intercepted in first 5 minutes
Or our kicker missed 3 fgs, or the coach doesn't know how to run out the clock.
Heck their defence is its payback for some hit 4 years ago!
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 12, 2024, 06:31:54 AMAs was Demski
And Willy
And Neufeld
And Zach
If players could only be evaluated on their ability instead of something one guy did a half a decade ago (and he was an Alouette when he did it and Dolegala was a Lion last, but far be it from facts contributing to a narrative), imagine the quality of discussion we could have.
Both Willy's!
Seeing that name gave me flashbacks
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 12, 2024, 10:52:53 AMAll I'm saying is don't give them signing bonuses, nothing else. We can do everything you say, just don't stick our nose out for $70k to get it cut off. Is that not prudent?
Agree completely. Walters/Miller are nobody's fools. I'm sure they see things exactly as you've described. The Riders are truly the craphole of the league.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 12, 2024, 10:52:53 AMAll I'm saying is don't give them signing bonuses, nothing else. We can do everything you say, just don't stick our nose out for $70k to get it cut off. Is that not prudent?
It's just a weird thing to bring up.
We are obviously not offering guys sitting on the couch in Week 15 a signing bonus.
If we are signing a good veteran in the off season, we are likely giving a signing bonus.
The Durant mishap has no bearing. We've given out many signing bonuses since then. Not sure why it was suddenly mentioned.
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 12, 2024, 01:12:47 PMI have. Rock In Power Jack Russell.
Your statements are ludicrous. First off, Dolegala won't be getting a bonus because he's currently unsigned. Secondly, he's not a Rider, but if you're going to hyper generalize any player because at one point in his career he suited up for Saskatchewan, well, you need the kind of assistance that isn't available here. Can't wait for Milligan to hit free agency and you to pull out the soap box and go "He's no goode, he's a Rider." Respect the ability and take the blinders off, it's not a good look. Thirdly, it happened once. The Bombers have paid hundreds of thousands if not millions in bonuses since with no issue. If we follow your "logic" because of an isolated incident, we can't function in FA. Hell, Zach has a guaranteed quarter mill next year which he definitely is not living up to this season, and he's an ex Rider. And finally, the only thing Riderfans is good for is watching them eat their own during their annual Labour Day losing streak. Cornish used to troll them hard, and they all would have cut off their arms to get him on the team.
If you think Jake Dolegala, a young QB with a lot of runway left and a need to prove himself, is going to pander to fan base which did not treat him well for 10 grand and nuke the likelihood of anyone else ever signing him, well, maybe you need to hang out at RF a lot more. Seems to be something A51 would have opined on in their prime.
Do I think Dolegala is great? No, I don't even know if he's good. But Streveler is likely done til 2026 if not for good, and Zach only has a season left in him at best so we need to get some options in play immediately.
I believe Zach has a little more longevity than you suggest. Work on succession planing, yes. Write him off early, nope.
Quote from: Jesse on September 12, 2024, 05:10:16 PMIt's just a weird thing to bring up.
We are obviously not offering guys sitting on the couch in Week 15 a signing bonus.
If we are signing a good veteran in the off season, we are likely giving a signing bonus.
The Durant mishap has no bearing. We've given out many signing bonuses since then. Not sure why it was suddenly mentioned.
Walters probably advanced them bus fare to get to Wpg. and a couple of MacDonald's coupons to tide them over.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 12, 2024, 05:52:23 PMWalters probably advanced them bus fare to get to Wpg. and a couple of MacDonald's coupons to tide them over.
Left over pinnacle club buffet I heard lol
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 12, 2024, 07:09:01 PMLeft over pinnacle club buffet I heard lol
There is no buffet at the Pinnacle Club. I wish...
Quote from: theaardvark on September 12, 2024, 07:10:00 PMThere is no buffet at the Pinnacle Club. I wish...
Well that dates me. A few years ago they had it after the game for people in those seats. When did they stop?
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 12, 2024, 05:16:21 PMI believe Zach has a little more longevity than you suggest. Work on succession planing, yes. Write him off early, nope.
He's going to be 37 halfway through next season. He's signed through the end of next season. Bombers are going to have to figure out his best before date, and it's not far past 2025. He's got nothing left to prove, we've already passed on a 2024 MOP nominee instead of him. Sure, he might have something left in the tank. But riding him til the wheels fall off is not a good strategy.
Don't get me wrong, I love Zach, but good management will move on before they're forced to move on.
The plan is obviously to ride this vet core thru next year with the home Grey Cup. Then it will be dismantled.
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 12, 2024, 08:45:39 PMHe's going to be 37 halfway through next season. He's signed through the end of next season. Bombers are going to have to figure out his best before date, and it's not far past 2025. He's got nothing left to prove, we've already passed on a 2024 MOP nominee instead of him. Sure, he might have something left in the tank. But riding him til the wheels fall off is not a good strategy.
Don't get me wrong, I love Zach, but good management will move on before they're forced to move on.
Agree to disagree. I see us keeping him on to mentor the next gen and ensure a transition for the future. Injuries could derail that plan. A good debate but I'm going long on Zach. Maybe he transitions to our coaching staff. You originally said a season at best, which I disagree on.
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 12, 2024, 07:41:04 PMWell that dates me. A few years ago they had it after the game for people in those seats. When did they stop?
They give out little appy plates now, guessing that stopped due to COVID, and they never went back...
Quote from: blue_or_die on September 12, 2024, 09:24:44 PMThe plan is obviously to ride this vet core thru next year with the home Grey Cup. Then it will be dismantled.
There will be players they move on from after teh GC host year that maybe should be moved on from this year, but I hardly think the word "dismantled" comes into play...
Quote from: theaardvark on September 12, 2024, 10:51:49 PMThey give out little appy plates now, guessing that stopped due to COVID, and they never went back...
That's too bad, that buff was pretty sick but I'm sure many enjoyed it
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 12, 2024, 11:09:54 PMThat's too bad, that buff was pretty sick but I'm sure many enjoyed it
With COVID, everybody would get sick, not just the buffet... ;)
Quote from: theaardvark on September 12, 2024, 10:53:31 PMThere will be players they move on from after teh GC host year that maybe should be moved on from this year, but I hardly think the word "dismantled" comes into play...
Zach, Bryant, Paddy, Fatboi, Willie, Biggie, BA...
And that's just the old guys. There will be the younger stars who will be able to demand high salaries that we will have to balance.
Quote from: theaardvark on September 12, 2024, 10:53:31 PMThere will be players they move on from after teh GC host year that maybe should be moved on from this year, but I hardly think the word "dismantled" comes into play...
It wasn't a shot. He's speaking in respect to the core players that have been around since the beginning of the rebuild.
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 12, 2024, 01:12:47 PMYour statements are ludicrous. First off, Dolegala won't be getting a bonus because he's currently unsigned.
Maybe, maybe not. He could realize he is literally the only legit couch-sitter right now and that he has WFC by the danglies. I could see him asking for a reasonable signing bonus. He is American, so there's always that "muh lower taxes" thing. If we don't get Jake, then our only other option is to make complicated and expensive trades... and we may not be willing to do that while Zach is still upright.
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 12, 2024, 01:12:47 PMSecondly, he's not a Rider, but if you're going to hyper generalize any player because at one point in his career he suited up for Saskatchewan
Ya, because when everyone thinks "Dolegala", they think "Lion".
Not. He
started much of the season for SSK last year, and some in '22. I think he started 2 in BC? Whatever you want to say about it, Dolegala is best known as a Rider.
Like I said before, be prudent. Isn't that wise? The longer a player was with SSK, and the closer they are to retirement, the greater the chance they "pull a Durant". The vets there all watched it happen, were in that city and having laughing fits about it in the locker room. Ya, so the odds of another player being that big a douche is maybe 5%, but it certainly isn't 0. Unless you think Durant is literally the biggest douche in the history of CFL, past, present and future. (And yes, I know Dolegala has only been in the CFL for 3 seasons, so the risk with him is lower.)
I don't want to see WFC get SMS-reamed by unscrupulous players again, Green fans would have just too much fun with that. Wise people learn from past mistakes.
You need healing. Did you get food poisoning from a box of Fantuz flakes?
Dolegala is 27. A long way from retirement. Weak argument
Demski, Neufeld and Willie were all known as Riders before they were known as Bombers. Your argument is more baseless the more you double(s)down on it. Weak argument
There's nothing to be prudent about, because as it has been pointed out to you by a number of people, he wouldn't be offered a bonus because he's warming the couch. But again, don't let facts or logic get in the way of your misguided narrative. Keep holding onto that kernel of where Doubles hurt you and apply that to everyone else who was ever a Rider. Don't walk around too fast with those blinders on because you're going to hit the wall.
It doesn't matter what I think of Durant, because I'm not the one making the argument that players (yes, plural, because that's the stretch your making) who once played for Saskatchewan, regardless of duration, then moved to other teams who were not the Riders, all have secret nefarious master plans to somehow get the Bombers to sign them from that non Rider team, so that they then can screw over the Bombers because that's actually the strategy of anyone who plays for the Riders, even though it's only happened once, but in your delusion it's a constant threat.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 13, 2024, 05:33:10 AMMaybe, maybe not. He could realize he is literally the only legit couch-sitter right now and that he has WFC by the danglies. I could see him asking for a reasonable signing bonus. He is American, so there's always that "muh lower taxes" thing. If we don't get Jake, then our only other option is to make complicated and expensive trades... and we may not be willing to do that while Zach is still upright.
Ya, because when everyone thinks "Dolegala", they think "Lion". Not. He started much of the season for SSK last year, and some in '22. I think he started 2 in BC? Whatever you want to say about it, Dolegala is best known as a Rider.
Like I said before, be prudent. Isn't that wise? The longer a player was with SSK, and the closer they are to retirement, the greater the chance they "pull a Durant". The vets there all watched it happen, were in that city and having laughing fits about it in the locker room. Ya, so the odds of another player being that big a douche is maybe 5%, but it certainly isn't 0. Unless you think Durant is literally the biggest douche in the history of CFL, past, present and future. (And yes, I know Dolegala has only been in the CFL for 3 seasons, so the risk with him is lower.)
I don't want to see WFC get SMS-reamed by unscrupulous players again, Green fans would have just too much fun with that. Wise people learn from past mistakes.
This is straight up unhinged.
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExcGswaWF5bzN4aHh0YzVrOWZkNDNuNGUzZzMwdmVsOTFwOXNpNmFmaiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/szWu9brqcBP45m36YE/giphy.webp)
I'm sure glad we didn't decide to treat Willie Jefferson that way when we signed him... from... the... gasp... Riders.
I remember we had a new quarterback playing for us in the 2023 pre-season who showed some talent. He ended up in Ottawa iirc.
Just googled it - Tyrrell Pigrome. Whatever happened to him? He has some flashes, no?
m.
Quote from: TheDeuce on September 13, 2024, 01:49:02 PMI remember we had a new quarterback playing for us in the 2023 pre-season who showed some talent. He ended up in Ottawa iirc.
Just googled it - Tyrrell Pigrome. Whatever happened to him? He has some flashes, no?
m.
No. Just no.
Quote from: TheDeuce on September 13, 2024, 01:49:02 PMI remember we had a new quarterback playing for us in the 2023 pre-season who showed some talent. He ended up in Ottawa iirc.
Just googled it - Tyrrell Pigrome. Whatever happened to him? He has some flashes, no?
m.
Looked great in pre-season running around and throwing it when everything broke down. Super athletic. I don't think they liked what they saw when evaluating the player overall. Quarterback especially, you need the right dedication and mindset.
Quote from: TheDeuce on September 13, 2024, 01:49:02 PMI remember we had a new quarterback playing for us in the 2023 pre-season who showed some talent. He ended up in Ottawa iirc.
Just googled it - Tyrrell Pigrome. Whatever happened to him? He has some flashes, no?
m.
I'm sure there are still terminally online fans who think we made a mistake moving on from Piggy.
I see Shiltz was just added to Calgary's AR. Shiltz could have been an interesting trade for the Bombers.
I think we underestimate how hard it is to make trades. Especially at QB. Why would other teams want to help us go to our 5th straight Grey Cup?
Quote from: BlueInCgy on September 13, 2024, 01:01:21 PMIt doesn't matter what I think of Durant, because I'm not the one making the argument that players (yes, plural, because that's the stretch your making) who once played for Saskatchewan, regardless of duration, then moved to other teams who were not the Riders, all have secret nefarious master plans to somehow get the Bombers to sign them from that non Rider team, so that they then can screw over the Bombers because that's actually the strategy of anyone who plays for the Riders, even though it's only happened once, but in your delusion it's a constant threat.
Nice straw man. By your logic you would have said the day before Durant ripped us off that such was an impossibility. Now that it's been
proven it can happen you still think it's an impossibility.
I'm saying that any well-known Rider who is thinking of retiring presents a small, non-zero threat of pulling a Durant. How do I know?
Because Durant literally did it. Forget your straw man of "all" players. All it takes is one. Do you want to state the chance of this happening again is 0%? Glad you're not GM.
The only suggestion I have made is don't give such players big signing bonuses. There is nothing outlandish or crazy about that. It is prudent. Do you want to state that you want to give franchise-guys ex-Riders $70k signing bonuses in the future with zero consideration to being Duranted? You can give them $70k more in other ways, just structure things so you
minimize the signing bonus. I'm flabbergasted; this isn't rocket science.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on September 13, 2024, 01:22:14 PMThis is straight up unhinged.
Oh look, it's the guy who has literally never liked anything I've ever said.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 13, 2024, 10:00:56 PMNice straw man. By your logic you would have said the day before Durant ripped us off that such was an impossibility. Now that it's been proven it can happen you still think it's an impossibility.
I'm saying that any well-known Rider who is thinking of retiring presents a small, non-zero threat of pulling a Durant. How do I know? Because Durant literally did it. Forget your straw man of "all" players. All it takes is one. Do you want to state the chance of this happening again is 0%? Glad you're not GM.
The only suggestion I have made is don't give such players big signing bonuses. There is nothing outlandish or crazy about that. It is prudent. Do you want to state that you want to give franchise-guys ex-Riders $70k signing bonuses in the future with zero consideration to being Duranted? You can give them $70k more in other ways, just structure things so you minimize the signing bonus. I'm flabbergasted; this isn't rocket science.
Oh look, it's the guy who has literally never liked anything I've ever said.
My gawd you like the sound of your own voice.
I actually didn't say it was an impossibility, nor did I think it. And you want to know why? Cause he wasn't the first to do it, he's just the only one you're aware of. You know who did it before him? Mo Price. You know who he screwed? The Riders.
By your "logic", in an effort of prudence, and you're all about the prudent things, we should go out and immediately sign BLM, because once before we had a room full of injured quarterbacks, signed a vet last minute with minimal market value on a team that wasn't going anywhere in the playoffs, and we won the cup. It happened once before, so it would be prudent to do it again, would it not?
So, back to your pillow Fort.
Dolegala - not a franchise guy. Not well known. Probably not thinking about retirement yet. Also not a Rider. So what part of your argument do you still think holds water? I wasn't advocating for any bonuses, I was just pointing out how ridiculous your argument was. Like I said, if the Bombers don't want to give out signing bonuses, they can't compete in free agency.
You wanna know why good established players want and get paid money upfront? Because (orders of magnitude times more) players get released in advance of latter contract bonus due dates, so they need some guaranteed skin in the game because they can't bank on the back end. That's the reality of football contracts. Is every GM who lets a player go in advance of a bonus bad? No, it's just business. It's a risk the players take in signing contracts with back end deals, in the same way the team risks it with upfront bonuses. Did GMs stop with signing bonuses after Mo Price? No. Have 99%+ players who took upfront money made good on it? Yes. Are those good reliability odds? They're fantastic.
Well that's a shot to the solar plexus.
Gotta be out if breath after that ramble
SO, no new news about our two potential QB's?
Quote from: theaardvark on September 16, 2024, 02:50:28 AMSO, no new news about our two potential QB's?
Gotta wait until they get in the field first.
Quote from: Jesse on September 16, 2024, 03:00:00 AMGotta wait until they get in the field first.
I was meaning whether they are here, if they've been offered contracts, PR spots, or what?
They need some status to be able to start practicing...
Quote from: theaardvark on September 16, 2024, 03:17:42 AMI was meaning whether they are here, if they've been offered contracts, PR spots, or what?
They need some status to be able to start practicing...
yah - they don't practice till tuesday but you would think something should be coming out today.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 13, 2024, 10:00:56 PMOh look, it's the guy who has literally never liked anything I've ever said.
(https://media.tenor.com/KgaNE2deR7UAAAAM/violin-tiny.gif)
You say literally too much.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on September 14, 2024, 04:55:50 PMWell that's a shot to the solar plexus.
Not the first. And it won't be the last.