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Official: Trevor Harris returns for Saskatchewan Roughriders vs. Montreal Alouettes
By 3Down Staff -August 15, 2024
Trevor Harris is back and it couldn't have come at a better time for the Saskatchewan Roughriders as they host the league-leading Montreal Alouettes.
The 38-year-old quarterback will suit up for the first time since Week 3 when he suffered an MCL sprain in his left knee against the Hamilton Tiger-Cats. Before the Waldo, Oh. native went down, Harris led the CFL in both passing yards (695) and touchdowns (five).
The Riders will also receive more reinforcements with running back A.J. Ouellette and linebacker Jameer Thurman returning to the lineup.
The 29-year-old Ouellette rumbles back into the starting lineup after missing the last three games due to a hip injury. The two-time East Division all-star ran for 397 yards and three touchdowns prior to his injury.
Thurman is also back in action after missing last week's tie against the Ottawa Redblacks with an elbow injury. The Chicago, Il. native remains one of the most impactful players on Saskatchewan's defence, having 38 tackles, one interception, and three fumble recoveries.
Newly signed linebackers Aubrey Miller Jr. and Zachary Philion draw into the lineup, while receiver KeeSean Johnson will start at slotback after missing last week.
The Riders have also made a shift on the offensive line, with Logan Ferland kicking out to right tackle and Nick Jones shifting into guard.
Linebacker C.J. Avery (head), receiver Ajou Ajou (finger), and defensive lineman Habakkuk Baldonado (head) will not dress this week.
The Saskatchewan Roughriders (5-3-1) will host the Montreal Alouettes (8-1) on Friday, Aug. 16 with kickoff slated for 9:00 p.m. EDT.
https://3downnation.com/2024/08/15/official-trevor-harris-returns-for-saskatchewan-roughriders-vs-montreal-alouettes/
Cody Fajardo to dress but not start for Montreal Alouettes vs. Riders
By 3Down Staff -August 15, 2024
Quarterback Cody Fajardo will be available for the Montreal Alouettes when they pay a visit to the west's best in the Saskatchewan Roughriders, though it doesn't appear he'll be in the starting lineup.
This marks the first time the 32-year-old will be available to play at Mosaic Stadium since leaving the Riders after the 2022 season. The 2023 Grey Cup MVP has missed the last three games with a hamstring injury and has thrown for 1,636 yards, 10 touchdowns, and four interceptions on the season.
Instead, however, it will be Davis Alexander taking the starter reins for the third consecutive week. After being away from the team on Tuesday for personal reasons, the 25-year-old returned to practice the following day and is slated to be the starter.
Alexander made his season debut against the Riders the last time these teams met, completing 15-of-18 passes for 178 yards and two touchdowns after coming in relief against Saskatchewan three weeks ago.
Canadian receiver Shedler Fervius has moved into the starting lineup as Tyson Philpot has been ruled out. The 24-year-old Philpot exited last week's contest against the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and did not practice all week with a left foot injury.
Nafees Lyon has returned to the starting lineup after missing the last three weeks and will start at boundary corner, pushing Dionte Ruffin to field-side halfback and Bryce Cosby to strong-side linebacker.
Defensive backs Cre'von Leblanc (hamstring) and Najee Murray (ankle), as well as linebacker Frederic Chagnon (knee) remain sidelined.
The Montreal Alouettes (8-1) will visit the Saskatchewan Roughriders (5-3-1) on Friday, Aug. 16 with kickoff slated for 9:00 p.m. EDT.
https://3downnation.com/2024/08/15/cody-fajardo-to-dress-but-not-start-for-montreal-alouettes-vs-riders/
That's a tough defense and a tough team for Trevor Harris to come back from injury to play against. Wouldn't you want a softer start to build his confidence a bit first? Talk about thrown into the fire.
Quote from: J5V on August 15, 2024, 10:43:03 PMThat's a tough defense and a tough team for Trevor Harris to come back from injury to play against. Wouldn't you want a softer start to build his confidence a bit first? Talk about thrown into the fire.
He's their starting QB not a raw rookie coming in. If he's healthy, he starts.
Ya there are alot easier teams to get back into the groove with but like the one poster said, he's their #1 Qb, earning the big bucks, get in there and earn them. He's had his injury challenges, and I just think he's getting up there in age and wont stay healthy for long. Same for Masoli, will he last his first game back??
I'm thinking the Riders are going to win this one
Quote from: peg_city on August 15, 2024, 11:58:48 PMI'm thinking the Riders are going to win this one
That would be surprising.
Ott win, check!
Als win??? Yes please.
Ole, ole, ole...come on Montreal !!
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 16, 2024, 04:06:56 AMOtt win, check!
Als win??? Yes please.
Yup, WPG needs East to do us a solid. Keep paying off for us Easties!! Knock those Greenies down a notch (or 10).
Horn out those nasty horny horns! Or oops there in the toilet seat stadium hopefully no one shows up due to harvesting season!
French is the colour!
Boule de pied is the game!
We're all together, eh!
And winning is our aim
So cheer us on through the St Lawrence Seaway
Frenchie Birdies is our name!
-- with a nod to every annoying Riderfans GDT
Go blue & red! Go Francophones! Sack "Glass" Trevor once and he's probably out another 10 weeks. Make those green fans abandon the toilet bowl midway through 4th Q.
Stop the mullet. Attack the iffy DBs. Get Fletcher going for once.
If Greenies want to win, the must go all-ground + all-short. Any deeps will be picked.
How's sask O line?
Montreal has some serious D lineman....
WARNING DANGER WILL ROBINSON
Tennis on TSN 211!
Game on TSN3 (213 for me)
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 12:57:31 AMFrench is the colour!
Boule de pied is the game!
We're all together, eh!
And winning is our aim
So cheer us on through the St Lawrence Seaway
Frenchie Birdies is our name!
-- with a nod to every annoying Riderfans GDT
😂😂😂
Rider fans bashing Cody for being too chicken to play @Mosaic. Ha, maybe!! Wouldn't it be interesting if Alexander gets injured for a series or two...
Boo Riders Booo
Quote from: markf on August 17, 2024, 01:00:41 AMHow's sask O line?
Montreal has some serious D lineman....
Hopefully they partied in Regina to hard last night!
Quote from: peg_city on August 15, 2024, 11:58:48 PMI'm thinking the Riders are going to win this one
Regina is a tough place to go into and come out of with a win. It's not impossible though.
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 01:08:06 AMRegina is a tough place to go into and come out of with a win. It's not impossible though.
Lately is it bloody not as hard as any other time. The deer ran all over them their last.
Ouelette and that stupid hair. ::)
Grab him by the hair! It is legal.
Yay! This game got Proulx and ref #22!!! Yay! That means we don't!
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 01:06:02 AMHopefully they partied in Regina to hard last night!
Hopefully the SSK team ate at that taco joint from a couple of years back...
Good stop by the Al D.
Haha Lauther. Don't want to let Montreal off the hook early.
Can't let the mullet run on them like that.
That mid middle slant/crosser Trevor hit showed MTL D a bit discombobulated. MTL needs to dial that in. Can't give those 15Yers to Trevor all night.
Yay! Lauther's season continues to go down the toilet drain! Keep it up Lauther!
(Note to self: SSK in the market for a decent kicker in FA'25)
Laugher misses from 30 LOL
NICE FART BY HIM!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 01:14:07 AMCan't let the mullet run on them like that.
That mid middle slant/crosser Trevor hit showed MTL D a bit discombobulated. MTL needs to dial that in. Can't give those 15Yers to Trevor all night.
Yay! Lauther's season continues to go down the toilet drain! Keep it up Lauther!
(Note to self: SSK in the market for a decent kicker in FA'25)
Well he is kicking in one so there is that.
Rider Forum already in melt down mode. LOL
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 01:14:11 AMLaugher misses from 30 LOL
That GLOB place kicker on that other team is kicking better than Lauther!
Hello Andre please you and crew don't screw this one ok?
Brutal punt
He looked like Sheehan on that one.
Lousy kick. OOB at the 23, penalty. Crappy.
Tuned into 620 ckrm for a minute.... They were giving betting advice.
I Don't object to the prevalence of sports betting, but it will always seem strange to me.
First glitch of the night TSN stream. Many more ahead.
Sankey & Beverette will be making mullet's life difficult tonight. To get good runs they'll have to outsmart them.
Yay, 2 & out for SSK
Glenn is barely awake?
Why do the Riders always play like dirtbags?
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 01:24:58 AMWhy do the Riders always play like dirtbags?
Coached that way from the top-down. Been that way since at least 2017.
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 01:24:58 AMWhy do the Riders always play like dirtbags?
EZ, because they are.
Interesting TSN graphic prior to the Lauther MFG. They showed him as 22 out of 128 on the season. That is Gene Lakusiak bad.
I thought that the flag for grounding was going to be for ineligible receiever. If the first player to touch a throw is an O-lineman it is a penalty. Upon review, it looked like it bounced first.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 01:26:53 AMEZ, because they are.
Always with the extra curriculars after the whistle.
Quote from: Stats Junkie on August 17, 2024, 01:27:59 AMI thought that the flag for grounding was going to be for ineligible receiever. If the first player to touch a throw is an O-lineman it is a penalty. Upon review, it looked like it bounced first.
Even if it hits the back of his cleats or butt? I'll take your word for it. I'll check later if it really hit the ground first.
Attendance @Mosaic is really really bad. Wow. A marquee matchup, arguably the best 2 teams in the league (by standings) in a potential GC matchup (in greenie dreams). And this is the best crowd they could pull? Beautiful night, no rain, nice temp.
Sad, greenies!! No longer the league's best fans!!
Harris is obviously fresh and running on adrenaline. It's very important for the Als D to make him as uncomfortable as possible, keep him unsettled and unsure.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 01:30:52 AMAttendance @Mosaic is really really bad. Wow. A marquee matchup, arguably the best 2 teams in the league (by standings) in a potential GC matchup (in greenie dreams). And this is the best crowd they could pull? Beautiful night, no rain, nice temp.
Sad, greenies!! No longer the league's best fans!!
Visitor side of the building is a sad turnout. Home side looks full but...
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 01:31:46 AMHarris is obviously fresh and running on adrenaline. It's very important for the Als D to make him as uncomfortable as possible, keep him unsettled and unsure.
Trevor is a very good QB. Seen everything, knows his reads.
But did you see that brace?! He ain't moving anywhere in that pocket.
Cosby pulled a Cosby
Oulette wont last the game. Just bulls ahead.
Awesome incursion into the back field.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 01:32:02 AMVisitor side of the building is a sad turnout. Home side looks full but...
I'll check when they do the ground-cam shots... that sounds like the East.
SSK charges more (10-20%?) for home side so things are supposed to even out. I like that idea: means I can get cheaper tickets behind Bombers bench.
#3 sask blatant hold
SSK using bigger Rs to get YAC through contact. It's a very smart play and we should take note. It takes advantage of their size against the very small (but talented) MTL DBs.
Maybe start chucking short/behind passes to mullet. Use the size & speed and steamroll with a running start.
What on earth is that on 3rd & inches?! Did they think it was 2nd? All sorts of movement on their OL.
Who doesn't go for 3rd & inches?! Man, makes me love MOS even more.
Fear and lauthering in saskvegas
Bring back Faithful!
Lauther having a tough night.
I like how Lauther - came up as "laughter" when I was typing it.
Laugher X2 wow just wow. What a joke.
Rider forum in pure crisis mode. :D :D :D
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH I knew it! Idiots! You decline the 3rd & inches and then set up an even harder FG for your guy who just missed from 15Y closer?
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Mace making Dickenson & Dinwiddie-level decisions?
All the SSK pressure should open up the one on ones way downfield. Bring in a TE to buy the extra second, or start throwing rainbows to spots.
ALS should have given up the single. Alexander made a nice move to escape
Alexander having a tough time.
Als have a great punt coverage unit.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 01:43:24 AMAlexander having a tough time.
Calvillo should start giving him the infamous MTL hitch screens!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 01:30:52 AMAttendance @Mosaic is really really bad. Wow. A marquee matchup, arguably the best 2 teams in the league (by standings) in a potential GC matchup (in greenie dreams). And this is the best crowd they could pull? Beautiful night, no rain, nice temp.
Sad, greenies!! No longer the league's best fans!!
This should be surprising. Everything you said, plus the fact they finally cleaned house and got "their guy" at HC. They've started off hot, they got their starting QB back tonight. It's a Friday nighter.
Everything lined up for a big crowd.
Als secondary looking rather weak here. :-\
Johnson is a monster.
How long till Oulette is hurt again?
Montreal D holds
See if Laugher can pull another Laugher.
Line dancing was a two year fad 30 years ago. Great work adco.
Quote from: Jesse on August 17, 2024, 01:44:46 AMThis should be surprising. Everything you said, plus the fact they finally cleaned house and got "their guy" at HC. They've started off hot, they got their starting QB back tonight. It's a Friday nighter.
Everything lined up for a big crowd.
Exactly but no. Rider fans still staying away, why? No more BS excuses Thursday nighters that, Harvest season this, club discontent bull crap.
Rider fans quit on this club or what?
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 01:47:08 AMAls secondary looking rather weak here. :-\
They haven't given Trevor anything deeper than about 15Y yet. It's the smart play. Must negate Ento and Dequoy. But I can see SSK trying trick MTL into bringing the DBs/FS up to help on the runs and the short/mid game. That could open up the deep.
Quote from: The Zipp on August 17, 2024, 01:48:09 AMHow long till Oulette is hurt again?
Montreal D holds
He looked on the limp after that monster tackle.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 01:50:45 AMExactly but no. Rider fans still staying away, why? No more BS excuses Thursday nighters that, Harvest season this, club discontent bull crap.
Rider fans quit on this club or what?
They still have the die hards, but they need a full resurgence to bring back everyone else.
Gonna lose a bunch more when they finish the season 0-7 again though.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 01:51:55 AMThey haven't given Trevor anything deeper than about 15Y yet. It's the smart play. Must negate Ento and Dequoy. But I can see SSK trying trick MTL into bringing the DBs/FS up to help on the runs and the short/mid game. That could open up the deep.
Richie Hall sneaked out and is now DC for the Als. Lol
Gosh darn it, Montreal. Don't give the game away.
Quote from: Jesse on August 17, 2024, 01:52:21 AMThey still have the die hards, but they need a full resurgence to bring back everyone else.
Gonna lose a bunch more when they finish the season 0-7 again though.
exactly die yards and STH present, Normies bybye.
Mean while Als D getting shredded. Alexander hype is gone?
The riders dominating but only have 7 points to show for it.
MTL can't give up the easy and automatic short game all night because Trevor is fully capable of dinking & dunking you all night. He's very accurate.
However, that's the MTL M.O.: eat deep and force short.
It'll be interesting if MTL has an answer without then giving up the deep.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 01:53:31 AMexactly die yards and STH present, Normies bybye.
Mean while Als D getting shredded. Alexander hype is gone?
You can never anoint a QB after one performance. Seen that a million times.
Als still only a 1 score hame after Harris is putting up yardage.
*** up Al O!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 01:56:18 AMMTL can't give up the easy and automatic short game all night because Trevor is fully capable of dinking & dunking you all night. He's very accurate.
However, that's the MTL M.O.: eat deep and force short.
It'll be interesting if MTL has an answer without then giving up the deep.
It's actually all he's got.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 01:52:45 AMRichie Hall sneaked out and is now DC for the Als. Lol
That's precisely it! It's the Hall give-up-every-wideout plan!
We'll see if they can find a solution. However, so far you'd have to say it's working as no SSK TDs even with the turnover.
Als can't even run the ball a bit. Brutal
Horse collar!
Proulx doing his nails?
Atta boy Andre
Could have been a CC call.
How does TSN not see the horse collar ??
Bahahhahaha the command centre got um again
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 01:59:02 AMHorse collar!
Proulx doing his nails?
I can't believe the refs didn't catch that livetime. Horrible. Needed command.
That was the most obvious HC I've seen in a long time.
The intensity and energy SSK is bringing early is what we should expect to see for LDC. It's gonna be rough until we can demoralize them (same as this game). The key is... to demoralize them; before the 4th!
Nice play Alexander. Sask break down big time.
Riders big start erased.
TOUCHDOWN ALS
Well done penalty aided. Eat it bush.
All it took was a bad penalty taken by the Cryders then Als O wakes up.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 02:02:15 AMRiders big start erased.
Yup, all that work hosed by one MTL drive.
That OC play design was brilliant.
That was nice.
TSN goes to commercial on the KO then 1 min later go to commercial for 3 min warning. Uh... you couldn't anticipate the 3min warning and hold off on the 1st ad?
NACHO FRIES! NACHO FRIES!
It's extremely disconcerting that this officiating crew (not to mention TSN) was willing to give the Riders an egregious horse collar tackle. No team gets a fair shake in Regina.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 02:07:57 AMTSN goes to commercial on the KO then 1 min later go to commercial for 3 min warning. Uh... you couldn't anticipate the 3min warning and hold off on the 1st ad?
NACHO FRIES! NACHO FRIES!
They're contracted for the number of ads. Gots to do both.
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 02:09:20 AMIt's extremely disconcerting that this officiating crew (not to mention TSN) was willing to give the Riders an egregious horse collar tackle. No team gets a fair shake in Regina.
Yeah, Suitor totally ignored it until after the command centre call.
What a hit by Cosby
Quote from: Jesse on August 17, 2024, 02:10:30 AMYeah, Suitor totally ignored it until after the command centre call.
he was sleeping on air again.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 02:10:34 AMWhat a hit by Cosby
That's one way to attack Trevor's dink & dunk... punish every R after the catch. Might wear them down by the 4th. That middle and slant vs zone will start getting dangerous.
Quote from: Jesse on August 17, 2024, 02:09:50 AMThey're contracted for the number of ads. Gots to do both.
Ya, but then in the 4th they'll have a 20 min stretch with zero ads. I know, I edit out ads on WPG games. Strange ad timing for TSN overall.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 02:12:47 AMYa, but then in the 4th they'll have a 20 min stretch with zero ads. I know, I edit out ads on WPG games. Strange ad timing for TSN overall.
It's probably the easiest/best way to make sure you get them in early. Rather than needing to squeeze them in at the end.
I'm like that Rambo
Good find
Quote from: Jesse on August 17, 2024, 02:13:43 AMIt's probably the easiest/best way to make sure you get them in early. Rather than needing to squeeze them in at the end.
The opposite of movies on TV, where they run 20 mins to start with zero ads then go ad-crazy by the end.
You think you want to suck people into the CFL game to start, then hit them with all the NACHO FRIES!
Suitor sounds dejected.
Oh ya, it's MTL with the GLOB PK... Maltos. Haha, it'll be great if Maltos ends the night with a better % than Lauther, and even better if he wins the game for them with a walk-off!
Techno, you've made this point before, and it's true. The Als outsmart their opponents and once again found a way to win the half.
Great job to finish the half Als
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 02:18:17 AMSuitor sounds dejected.
he always sounds like that now in every game he does. Sleepy Glen.
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 02:18:44 AMTechno, you've made this point before, and it's true. The Als outsmart their opponents and once again found a way to win the half.
MTL Calvillo (and maybe Maas with him) are the highest brains in the CFL right now. That plus I think they work way harder than everyone else. They come up with special things just for the team at hand. If we GC vs them again, we need to up our brain game.
My theory re TSN is simply they have fired too many people, to increase profit, people that are left are either bad at their job, do not care, or both.
The stupid crap we get is the end result. Like the refusal to have a reliable stream.
Why should Bell/Tsn care? The league can't do anything about it. So it's Like it or lump it.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 02:18:17 AMSuitor sounds dejected.
I wouldn't know, it's muted when he's on. If he was just neutral, ok, but he He actively irritates me.
What is Barker talking about? He highlights the Riders talking about how they ran the ball and the energy they expended wearing out the Als. Which team is going to gas out first after watching that first half? The Riders burned twice the energy the Als did!
Quote from: markf on August 17, 2024, 02:21:51 AMMy theory re TSN is simply they have fired too many people to increase profit, people that are left are either bad at their job, do not care, or both.
The stupid crap we get is the end result. Like the refusal to have a reliable stream.
Why should Bell/Tsn care? The league can't do anything about it. So it's Like it or lump it.
But they got Henoc who is great at blathering. :)
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 02:25:09 AMWhat is Barker talking about? He highlights the Riders talking about how they ran the ball and the energy they expended wearing out the Als. Which team is going to gas out first after watching that first half? The Riders burned twice the energy the Als did!
Barker is a clueless old hack with a Trumpet for a voice
Where the heck is Milt? In the tub in Georgia?
Is it just me or do sneakers with a suit look stupid?
Didn't that trend die?
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 02:29:25 AMIs it just me or do sneakers with a suit look stupid?
Yeah, we've seen what you wear to Bomber games, Goldie.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 02:29:25 AMIs it just me or do sneakers with a suit look stupid?
If they are Tony Romo approved Sketchers an exception can be made.
The Riders must drink energy drinks by the gallon especially on defense. They're like Berserkers out there. No way they can maintain that for 60 minutes. They try to overwhelm their opposition from the start and try to get off to a great start and a big lead. When it doesn't work, they gas out and lose it late. That's my prediction, anyway.
Why does Ouellette look like every tackle is the most painful thing he's ever experienced?
Anthony Calvillo took hits more gracefully.
Quote from: Jesse on August 17, 2024, 02:30:09 AMYeah, we've seen what you wear to Bomber games, Goldie.
Indeed, I'm not in a goddamn suit though. Lol.
Omelette is getting scrambled.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 02:41:19 AMWhy does Ouellette look like every tackle is the most painful thing he's ever experienced?
Anthony Calvillo took hits more gracefully.
His bodies broken. He's not long for this game.
I think Oulette has a future in pro wrestling.
Quote from: markf on August 17, 2024, 02:24:40 AMI wouldn't know, it's muted when he's on. If he was just neutral, ok, but he He actively irritates me.
Suits is the new Blackie?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 02:43:23 AMSuits is the new Blackie?
They were always on the same level. Though Rod seemed like he was losing it near the end.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 02:27:45 AMBarker is a clueless old hack with a Trumpet for a voice
I like Barker. He's like a grandpa you can have goofy chats with.
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 02:32:53 AMThe Riders must drink energy drinks by the gallon especially on defense. They're like Berserkers out there.
Last game when I went down to the field, the visitor bench (BC) had like 200 little empty packets of smelling salts. I assume every team is doing it. Thars your berzerker energy!
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 02:41:19 AMWhy does Ouellette look like every tackle is the most painful thing he's ever experienced?
Anthony Calvillo took hits more gracefully.
To be fair, Schoen looks like he's gonna die after every tackle.
But ya, RBs are supposed to "show tougher".
Oooof on that sneak , punt and pin them deep
That wasn't a very good play by Montreal on that 3rd down gamble
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 02:43:23 AMSuits is the new Blackie?
I'd take blackie over suits. He's that bad.
Davis, what a useless piece of crap at QB. Can't do anything right
Once again SSK doesn't go for it on 3rd & 1 (I'm 5 mins behind). What's up with their lack of trust in SY? I don't think I've ever seen a team that afraid of under a yard.
Quote from: markf on August 17, 2024, 02:49:36 AMI'd take blackie over suits. He's that bad.
I got way too drunk.
How is Don Davis still playing?? He's horrible. That 3rd down sneak was the worst I've ever seen
Gave the riders a short field...and it cost them
Crappy!
Quote from: The Zipp on August 17, 2024, 02:48:26 AMOooof on that sneak , punt and pin them deep
3rd & 1 should be automatic... but Dom continues to
not DOMinate. He was one of the worst SY for other teams, now he can suck for MTL. I wonder if they still have time to cut him (he's a vet).
Quote from: dd on August 17, 2024, 02:51:58 AMHow is Don Davis still playing?? He's horrible. That 3rd down sneak was the worst I've ever seen
we can definitely agree on that. The guy is a piece of garbage how any club signs this bum again makes no sense to me. He must have nasty pictures of the Comissioner or something?
Quote from: markf on August 17, 2024, 02:49:36 AMI'd take blackie over suits. He's that bad.
Hey now, let's not go crazy!! ;) ;)
Let's see who's the stronger team in the fourth quarter.
Quote from: The Zipp on August 17, 2024, 02:54:11 AMGave the riders a short field...and it cost them
SSK committed to the dink & dunk. Stick with it and they might win. Thorpe relies on the long drive faltering.
MTL needs to up the O. What are the weaknesses of the SSK D right now? They don't give much time, and they are weak deep, but those two things protect each other.
I'd literally go to the Cody GC gameplan of hitch-screen + middle mid pass. Is Alexander patient enough?
Phillpott absence causing als problems
That wrestling suplex tackle is no longer being called.
Quote from: markf on August 17, 2024, 03:00:20 AMPhillpott absence causing als problems
Yup. He's on the six game.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 02:54:58 AMwe can definitely agree on that. The guy is a piece of garbage how any club signs this bum again makes no sense to me. He must have nasty pictures of the Comissioner or something?
Ambrosie in compromising positions with Gainer?
But seriously, there are no other SY QBs left. Whoever snapped up Prukop on his 2nd/3rd signing this year struck gold.
Alexander is fearless.
Here we go Als
Oh Oh can we see Cody F come into the game?
Quote from: markf on August 17, 2024, 03:00:20 AMThat wrestling suplex tackle is no longer being called.
The 2 we've seen this week are right on the edge. If they lift the guy a bit more it's a penalty. A couple of inches of lift isn't enough to qualify (I guess).
Alexander hurt. Might we see Jesus Sprinkles in his old barn? Crowd will go mental
This game is being played fast, can't believe its the 4th quarter already
Omelette might not be a great player, but he's entertaining.
Reminds me a bit of the old James Brown cape bit.
So tell Ouelette he looks like a goddamn Muppet out there! :D
We really need MTL to win this one. They are obviously the way stronger team, but credit to SSK: they brought the energy tonight.
And the SSK O game plan of chipping away is genius. It's MTL's weak spot. Amazing we didn't win that cup, since we are masters of the run/short game. It was those greedy 25Y passes into the EZ that cost us that cup. Should have just kept 10-15Y'ing it.
Quote from: markf on August 17, 2024, 03:00:20 AMPhillpott absence causing als problems
That wrestling suplex tackle is no longer being called.
I said exactly the same thing and yesterday's game. No call. There not calling that anymore.
Holes in that Montreal secondary
Quote from: barbk on August 17, 2024, 03:06:34 AMThis game is being played fast, can't believe its the 4th quarter already
Ya. Hour 3 starts and we are already in 4th. It's because both teams are only doing clock-chewing drives and tons of ground game for SSK.
If a/the team(s) get desperate later on we may see more of an air show. That would be death for SSK if they need to air it out. Luckily for them it appears MTL will need to do the air show.
Proulx & co really holding onto their flags today. League directives must have hit home.
I haven't seen #22 since he robbed us a few weeks ago. I wonder if he got benched until he gets thicker glasses and a brain.
OMG... Lauther cost them the game.... like it
The spider cam on those returns are great viewing !!
Love it!!
Lauther going for worst performance of the week honors!
Letcher gooooooooooooooo! That will demoralize the green crowd. Go up by 2 scores and it's over for the fans. They need time to drive back to Saskatoon and Swift Current.
Drop by Bane
Miss by Lauther
Boom - game is turned around
10 point swing. Beautiful.
Very, very, nice. TD Als.
SSK dink & dunk is great until the clock forces you deep. Let's see how it progresses. Still time to dunk. If MTL can get them out with FGs/TDs SSK will have to risk it and Ento/Dequoy will show them what they showed us in the cup.
LAUGHER!
What a gimp!
Never go full Rider!
Love it!
Als secondary is not very good.
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 03:19:31 AMNever go full Rider!
Love it!
YUP! They went full rider.
Now MTL finish the job!! Stop the dunk and win! Just need to get up by 7+ and it should force SSK's hand.
SSK game plan:
run
wide out
wide out
run
run
wide out
mid zone
wide out
wide out
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 03:19:31 AMNever go full Rider!
Love it!
Never go 1/8th rider never mind.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 03:21:08 AMAls secondary is not very good.
They've been giving up lots underneath but you need to get pressure on Harris somehow. It's out quick but if you can't hit him at all it makes things really hard.
DeQuoy maybe show up eh!
I knew it. There's the setup for the deep shot! MTL fell for it after protecting the deep shot all night.
I hate to say it, but brilliant move by SSK OC. Was that Ento falling down on that TD?!?! Pushed? Very weird.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 03:22:59 AMThey've been giving up lots underneath but you need to get pressure on Harris somehow. It's out quick but if you can't hit him at all it makes things really hard.
underneath AND over the friggin top! Booooo
Als DB slips. Sucks.
Homer Glen seems to of woken up!
Dang - defender got spun around and Harris has made some good throws today
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 03:24:22 AMAls DB slips. Sucks.
he wouldn't of been in position anyways.
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 03:24:22 AMAls DB slips. Sucks.
Why didn't Ento do that in the GC? Frustrating.
Oh ya Alien Romulous is a juicy one. ;)
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 03:23:59 AMunderneath AND over the friggin top! Booooo
The book on Harris is A and B gap pressure. Rider oline is cobbled together. Montreal defense needed more interior stunts and pressures. He's going to beat it sometimes but you're going to hit him sometimes and then you've got him.
That's the first deep shot SSK took all night. It was a setup. Ento got beat by sneaking up for the mid pass.
Haha, on that KO replay Hudon was clearly offside by a toe.
Picton the by standard gets a gift.
Good Al field position.
Als OL imploding
Alexander clearly showing he's a rookie. He doesn't know what to do with all the pressure.
Bench him and bring in Cody. Nothing to lose.
I knew Alexander would come back down to earth by a decent DC.
Ouelette a cross between a bum and a muppet.
Montreal D needs to come up big
Riders acting like goons. Well they are Goons.
No picks and I think no sacks for MTL D tonight?? There's what the dunk can do for you. MTL D usually great for fantasy.
Come on D!
Great stuff on 1st down.
Generous spot. Surely scared SSK won't go for it
3rd down....
We headed for OT?
Booming punt...nice to see blue and gold do that
Want a kick! Als got em right where they want em.
Lots of time.
Alexander is beet red and freaking out. It's too big for him. Should have Cody in there.
Should have gone to speiker on 1st down
He's never played in somewhere like Mosaic or PAS. He can't handle it. The East isn't like this.
Brutal
Alexander inexperience and shotty OL on display.
Hey Calvillio draw up some **** eh!
Notice how MTL completely stopped running? Fletcher is like 2-3 carries. They are making it too easy for SSK. Play action useless. I'm not sure another series will change anything.
Bring in Cody.
Both these teams are playing like idiots selfish idiots.
Rider D is pretty good when they smell inexperience. They are doing their job
Could this be another barn burner?
And no hitch screens. Could it really be Philpot is that important to their O that they completely fall apart into putty without him?
Calvillo was owning them early in the game but 2nd half is just crickets. Don't they understand there is no time to throw deep?
This Montreal D is dangerous, always dangerous.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 03:37:10 AMNotice how MTL completely stopped running? Fletcher is like 2-3 carries. They are making it too easy for SSK. Play action useless. I'm not sure another series will change anything.
Bring in Cody.
I am shocked at how many teams go to one dimension and abandon the running game
CODY CODY CODY
SPRINKLES SPRINKLES SPRINKLES
Als get it back!
2 and out
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 03:41:19 AMCODY CODY CODY
SPRINKLES SPRINKLES SPRINKLES
HE. IS. FRIGHIN. HURT.
If they put Alexander back in he will go 2 & out
What are these Riders on? Are they blood doping?
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 03:42:12 AMHE. IS. FRIGHIN. HURT.
He was warming up on the sidelines. Cody is fine. Think OBLIQUES
Well, we can ignore Henderson in the LDC
MTL just doesn't want to destroy Cody's confidence by being destroyed in his old home. Cody is fine
Dude is in some pain...
Wow whaling by Henderson.... what happened?
Is this a ploy to get the rider D some rest?
2 & out incoming with can't-do Alexander. He's been figured out. Next Jennings, not Dru.
He's fine. What a scam!
Bailed out by only 4 man rush and no contain. They've stopped him from doing this all 2nd half and now they decide to let him out?
I've never seen so many OCs in 1 game.
Spieker is clutch
WTH with these stupid Penalties
That was embellishing. Pray it stands?
That's what happens when you play a dirt bag team and don't address it, officials.
Here's the thing... command upheld all sorts of chitzy garbage non-DPIs on us! Are they going to gift SSK here? If so, unfair (even if correct).
Looked like Rambo fell but who knows.
Watch CC up hold and Cryders forum bedlam. :D :D
Suitor doing his best to talk Riders fans off the ledge during this challenge.
Good call. Clear shove
Shut up Sutter you biased POS
WOW! Command stays consistent and once again upholds the crap call on the field.
Time to revive that thread where I figured out command won't overturn these DPIs this season
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 03:48:49 AMSuitor doing his best to talk Riders fans off the ledge during this challenge.
LMAO
Red zone time!
Stick this in the end zone, boys.
Quote from: The Zipp on August 17, 2024, 03:49:11 AMGood call. Clear shove
100% thrown too far and Rambo noticed and took a dive. Not DPI. As bad as those fake ones called on us vs TOR and SSK
MTL needs TD here to seal it away
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 03:45:20 AMHe's fine. What a scam!
Crying like a pee-wee football player out there then pops up and jogs off.
Montreal O line not much tonight.
There's the screen!
Fetcher is killing em
Those are bad spots! They might be short!
1st down
No catch.
Blown dead doesn't matter.
Bad first down play call.
Horseshoes
Bounced off the ground lol
Overturned on review automatically
That ball hit the turf.
The ball hit the ground! **** these refs
These refs suck and the Command Centre will get it wrong again
Thank goodness
It can't have been complete in .5 sec, that's impossible so if it's on the ground it's 100% incomplete. Maybe if the SSK guy gets it in the air.
Oh well, they said they'd let it play out. So this is ok.
Quote from: barbk on August 17, 2024, 03:55:28 AMThese refs suck and the Command Centre will get it wrong again
No way it can be a turnover.
Command centre redeeming themselves tonight.
CC doing what it is there for.
Now stick this in the end zone!
Go for the TD right now and get it done. Corner EZ or bust and OT
Twinkletoes
😂
Didn't he toe the sideline?!
TOUCHDOWN ALS
YES!
Will be reviewed
So sweet!
Omg that's got to feel bad for the Riders. Packed house and you let them drive the field with 2 minutes to go?
Alexander the great will be a star
Wow, that was nutso footwork
That's a TD!
There is green
He is in
He is in!
When he pushes off that closeup shot, does his toe hit then?
Season deflating drive for the Riders defense.
Is suitor ok?
Andre looks tired lol
Farjardo isn't doing that with half a hamstring
I'm gonna need to frame by frame that later when the PVR sets the marks.
Way to go Alexander!
That kid is fearless.
Not over
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 03:58:08 AMWow, that was nutso footwork
He has all the tools
As good as a young QB we have seen since Rourke
What a blessing it is to have all this talent
Can't believe he hit the post
He missed the PAT?! Homg
Missed extra pont. What a freaky *** game.
Maltos is a tool as well.
Lauther redemption ??
3 plays
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 03:59:52 AMHe missed the PAT?! Homg
He is the 2nd worst kicker after Lauther
I wouldn't count on Lauther making the FG if I was sitting in the stands
Jesus a 15
These teams are both garbage lol
Crap my PVR kicked out at 11pm because of the Tennis screwup!! Just got back in, how did they get to mid field so fast?
Good entertainment value tonight.
MISS IT LAUTHER!
So apropos
LAUGHER LAUGHER.... :D
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 04:02:46 AMCrap my PVR kicked out at 11pm because of the Tennis screwup!! Just got back in, how did they get to mid field so fast?
Penalty
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 04:02:33 AMThese teams are both garbage lol
Makes zero sense
Mtl is clearly king and Sask is a top tear team
Does Suitor realize he is kicking for the tie?
LOL
Lauther about to get the manure treatment
BAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHANAN
There is a god
Fire up the manure wagon
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
Cfl most entertainment value in all of sports
LMAO HE MISSED AGAIN LMAO
UNREAL FUN!
Apocalyptic world on there forum. :D :D :D
Manure treatment for Lauther
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 04:04:52 AMHahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
Good show Brother!
Told you he would miss the FG.... now show the girlfriend for the 20th time LOL
Quote from: Blueforlife on August 17, 2024, 04:05:06 AMCfl most entertainment value in all of sports
This week has been amazing. Might the remaining 2 be this way?
That's good after real bore-fests the other weeks.
Dean Faithful furiously googling cheapest way to Regina
Quote from: The Zipp on August 17, 2024, 04:05:35 AMManure treatment for Lauther
He WILL need police protection all weekend. :o
Omelette with a little back bacon, please. LMAO!
Did Lauther miss 3 or 4?
Why not go for it on 3rd? You have an under 50% chance of Lauther making it... he's having his Lirim game that night. Why not take the last 1-2 plays?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 04:07:28 AMDid Lauther miss 3 or 4?
Why not go for it on 3rd? You have an under 50% chance of Lauther making it... he's having his Lirim game that night. Why not take the last 1-2 plays?
He was having a terrible night but surely going for it from the 41 yard line was longer odds.
Quote from: J5V on August 17, 2024, 04:07:17 AMOmelette with a little back bacon, please. LMAO!
No need for that imo, I prefer to respect the players names and don't like to make light of injuries.
He battled right to the end
Next time Sask is in town crack a joke like that to his face
Now it's Time to watch a king fu movie.
Good game.
Hahaha in the replay of that final kick you can see two fans angrily making for the exits before the returner even caught it.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 04:06:32 AMHe WILL need police protection all weekend. :o
Nah, he'll just be sitting fetal in the corner of his shower rocking back and forth as the hot water runs out.
(I joke, and he deserves it, but it's a bit sad as he's a NAT boy... maybe he'll pull a Lirim and stick in the NFL for 3 seasons! LOL)
Pics all over twitter of Davis foot being out. Saying it slid after the TSN replay
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 04:07:28 AMDid Lauther miss 3 or 4?
Why not go for it on 3rd? You have an under 50% chance of Lauther making it... he's having his Lirim game that night. Why not take the last 1-2 plays?
Cuz they played not to lose. No 3rd down gambles, no balls.
Quote from: The Zipp on August 17, 2024, 04:12:24 AMPics all over twitter of Davis foot being out. Saying it slid after the TSN replay
That's what I said live. Maybe... not sure yet. Can be sure in a few mins.
TSN often cuts the shot or zoom right at the critical moment. They are famous for it.
Quote from: The Zipp on August 17, 2024, 04:12:24 AMPics all over twitter of Davis foot being out. Saying it slid after the TSN replay
Too close to overturn
Quote from: Blueforlife on August 17, 2024, 04:09:57 AMNext time Sask is in town crack a joke like that to his face
Thinking about it... dissing a superstar CFL player might be the safest thing in the world. What's the dude gonna do? Hit you in front of witnesses and then be suspended 9 games or forever?
I can go verbal toe to toe with mullet. Ya, he could turn me into paste, but would he risk his career for it?
Quote from: The Zipp on August 17, 2024, 04:12:24 AMPics all over twitter of Davis foot being out. Saying it slid after the TSN replay
meh!
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 04:09:10 AMHe was having a terrible night but surely going for it from the 41 yard line was longer odds.
I'm trying to get the final stat, but by my count he went 2 for 6 on the night? So he was making 33%. Before the last miss he was hitting 40% on the night.
Ya, I'll be keeping my O out there. No fan would blame you. How much time that last couple of snaps and was SSK bleeding it to leave 0? If they had 6s they definitely should run a play for 1st down and/or get closer. Or just take 1 EZ fade to win it all.
Quote from: Blueforlife on August 17, 2024, 04:09:57 AMNo need for that imo, I prefer to respect the players names and don't like to make light of injuries.
He battled right to the end
Next time Sask is in town crack a joke like that to his face
He'd probably have a chuckle out of it.
Quote from: markf on August 17, 2024, 04:10:37 AMNow it's Time to watch a king fu movie.
Good game.
ninja scroll?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 03:58:32 AMWhen he pushes off that closeup shot, does his toe hit then?
100%. His foot sure seems to slide to the right AFTER the frozen frame. But, whatever, the result is great for us.
I foresee nasty Lauther signs made for LDC if he is still in the team by then? :D
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 04:17:16 AMI'm trying to get the final stat, but by my count he went 2 for 6 on the night? So he was making 33%. Before the last miss he was hitting 40% on the night.
Ya, I'll be keeping my O out there. No fan would blame you. How much time that last couple of snaps and was SSK bleeding it to leave 0? If they had 6s they definitely should run a play for 1st down and/or get closer. Or just take 1 EZ fade to win it all.
3 of 7
Quote from: jdrattops on August 17, 2024, 04:17:22 AMHe'd probably have a chuckle out of it.
Ya, dude calls himself Liver King and Thor, right?
That said I want the mods to know I didn't write it!
omg he wasnt even close!
Quote from: pdirks67 on August 17, 2024, 04:18:05 AM100%. His foot sure seems to slide to the right AFTER the frozen frame. But, whatever, the result is great for us.
Quote from: jdrattops on August 17, 2024, 04:15:06 AMToo close to overturn
jdra is right... not only does it have to hit the line, but it has to be clear and obvious, ESPECIALLY since command has proven they will put 90% weight on the field-ref call.
Remember, they didn't overturn that cheeseball Sayles DPI either.
Quote from: The Zipp on August 17, 2024, 04:12:24 AMPics all over twitter of Davis foot being out. Saying it slid after the TSN replay
command center has the full replay that we always may not see or what TSN shows us!!
SSK massively outplayed MTL and deserved to win.
MTL only won because of the Letcher freebie (with maybe a weak illegal block unseen) and Lauther missing Lirim-style.
But I will happily take it for my picks and our West standing results!! Go MTL!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 04:23:16 AMWho on what? Elaborate.
what do u think...the field goal
If it goes OT I think Trevor wins it. OT is perfect for dink & dunk. Alexander probably sits in pocket for 2 EZ tries and gets sacked... as long as SSK remembers pressure+contain.
Quote from: Go_Big_D on August 17, 2024, 04:25:37 AMwhat do u think...the field goal
Ah, right! You bet, what a bad kick. We all knew it was gonna miss. You can't fix a headcase kicker in-game. You must let them rest and recover mentally.
alexander sure does make a heck of a second string QB!
Quote from: pdirks67 on August 17, 2024, 04:18:05 AM100%. His foot sure seems to slide to the right AFTER the frozen frame. But, whatever, the result is great for us.
what replay shows that...none from TSN!!
Comp PVR got the frames calculated.
Alexander was 100% OOB and you can see it on the live overhead shot and the TSN freeze-forever replay. The problem isn't where they froze it, it's when they jump from frozen to full speed (on purpose). A couple of frames in and 100% his foot is out enough after a few frames. But maybe by only 1 inch.
I think command stuck with its new rule of "clear in livetime" and ignored it. However, I did spot it live in realtime but couldn't be sure. I guess ref made a judgement and it doesn't matter he was wrong.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 04:26:55 AMAh, right! You bet, what a bad kick. We all knew it was gonna miss. You can't fix a headcase kicker in-game. You must let them rest and recover mentally.
whats your opine on alexander the QB for montreal?
I saw it in real time and was like ? and then they showed us like five replays and an overhead shot and I'm like, he is OOB. What are we looking at here? Smh.
However, Alexander had the ball to within 0.5 to 1.0 yards away from the 1st down when he stepped out (he's leaning forward heavily).
MTL could sneak for 1st with 30s left and have plenty of time from 1st & goal. MTL might have still pulled it off.
Even Dom wouldn't have screwed up a 3rd & half at that juncture.
What makes me a bit mad is the "lie by omission" of TSN of not showing the frames that matter. I get that they want big scores and plays for the fans across the country, and they always want "more O"... but I'd prefer they don't disrespect the home fans in this manner.
Quote from: Go_Big_D on August 17, 2024, 04:31:42 AMwhat replay shows that...none from TSN!!
Actually every single replay showed me that he stepped out. TSN tried to freeze frame it to benefit Montreal but it's not hard to spot when it happens.
Both clubs took silly penalties
Sask could unravel from here but they have the talent
Quote from: DCM on August 17, 2024, 04:35:13 AMActually every single replay showed me that he stepped out. TSN tried to freeze frame it to benefit Montreal but it's not hard to spot when it happens.
ur not accounting for the camera angle..none of the replays were definitive from above to say he was OOB
Quote from: Go_Big_D on August 17, 2024, 04:33:11 AMwhats your opine on alexander the QB for montreal?
He had a ton of trouble in the 2nd H when SSK clearly figured him out. But this happens to every rookie after a few games of film.
His final game winning drive was penalty-aided and only salvaged due to his scrambling. Every mobile QB like Ford/Powell can do that. I'm not impressed by his TD dance.
But he did show patience on some short game stuff, so that is a plus. Calvillo bailed him out with a brilliant call to an uncovered snuck-out Fletcher.
In sum: jury is still out. He's at the critical juncture in his rookie season. We'll only know after a few more games. I think Dru showed better in his first few chances. My gut says he's gonna be good, but could be a Jennings: good for 0-2 seasons then total suckage when given a starter job.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 04:35:06 AMWhat makes me a bit mad is the "lie by omission" of TSN of not showing the frames that matter. I get that they want big scores and plays for the fans across the country, and they always want "more O"... but I'd prefer they don't disrespect the home fans in this manner.
Not everything is a big conspiracy. The production truck has to cue things up in real time with a 20 second play clock. Do you know how a production is run? Several camera feeds and angles are in a truck on a ton of monitors. A producer/director over a headset tells a switcher which camera to show live and when, inckuding replay playback which is also shown on monitors to the guy before it goes out. In the truck it's frenetic "standby camera 1, go 1, standby 4, go 4, etc" The standby command tells the operator to not move the camera.anymore because he likes the shot. The go tells the switcher to cut to it live.
There is no time to decide to conceal things or protect the league or any of that. If you sat in the truck, you'd know.
Quote from: Go_Big_D on August 17, 2024, 04:39:04 AMur not accounting for the camera angle..none of the replays were definitive from above to say he was OOB
Trust me, I could post 3 separate shots of his foot 100% clearly out by an inch.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 04:44:53 AMTrust me, I could post 3 separate shots of his foot 100% clearly out by an inch.
It might be out but it's not TSN's fault. The command centre needs to decide whether to slow the game down and wait for all kinds of replays to come in or not. They probably saw the tsn shot we all saw that looked in and then said keep playing.
Hard to blame them for that. They've been apparently told.to interfere less and there's a ref staring right at it. They have a reply that looks clean.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 04:42:02 AMThere is no time to decide to conceal things or protect the league or any of that. If you sat in the truck, you'd know.
I guarantee you are wrong because they do it
so often. I have way worse home tech here and I can instantly cue up and freezeframe. All they had to do with that frame of his foot being "good" was jog-shuttle 3 more frames to clearly see he's out.
TSN tries to make CFL look good and everyone knows the name of the TV ratings is MORE O, MORE SCORING.
I'm not some magic guy with magic eyes and better tech. As others have said, a lot of peoples' radar was pinging even on the live shot. We'll assume the TSN director isn't mentally or optically deficient.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 04:46:48 AMIt might be out but it's not TSN's fault. The command centre needs to decide whether to slow the game down and wait for all kinds of replays to come in or not. They probably saw the tsn shot we all saw that looked in and then said keep playing.
Hard to blame them for that. They've been apparently told.to interfere less and there's a red staring right at it. They have a reply that looks clean.
It's 2 separate issues. Need to keep them separate.
1) Command not wanting to overturn anymore. Could argue this is ok or not (new philosophy of theirs does make some sense).
2) TSN hiding the clear/easy evidence.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 04:42:02 AMNot everything is a big conspiracy.
OK, then how about this: SportsCentre 5 mins later showed the same zoom/freeze replay. All of your "not enough time" explanations for TSN truck don't apply to the post-game show 5 mins later. What excuse do the lackeys riding the PVRs @TSN HQ have to not show us the "controversial" shots?
Hey, just so you know, I'm not emotionally invested here about the call. I wear blue, not green. I just don't like dishonesty, and I'll be understanding of SSK fans freaking out all week.
But everyone should go read my post way above about MTL probably winning anyhow because they'd be 1st & goal at the 5 after an easy half yard sneak.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 04:50:30 AMIt's 2 separate issues. Need to keep them separate.
1) Command not wanting to overturn anymore. Could argue this is ok or not (new philosophy of theirs does make some sense).
2) TSN hiding the clear/easy evidence.
I don't believe they hid anything. Not in real time. Where do you think all of the angles are coming from the shows him out anyway? Also TSN.
The issue is they have to make a determination in a very short amount of time. You can't go on twitter 10 minutes later and see all the views. You've got to make the call now.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 04:53:13 AMOK, then how about this: SportsCentre 5 mins later showed the same zoom/freeze replay. All of your "not enough time" explanations for TSN truck don't apply to the post-game show 5 mins later. What excuse do the lackeys riding the PVRs @TSN HQ have to not show us the "controversial" shots?
Hey, just so you know, I'm not emotionally invested here about the call. I wear blue, not green. I just don't like dishonesty, and I'll be understanding of SSK fans freaking out all week.
But everyone should go read my post way above about MTL probably winning anyhow because they'd be 1st & goal at the 5 after an easy half yard sneak.
It's easy to blame "TSN" a big nebulous entity for being dishonest for some reason or another which is not quite clear.
It's harder when you understand how it works. The people that work the games are just regular folk who work in a pressure cooker of an environment for 3.5 hours. To suggest TSN is being dishonest, you are really accusing a small team of camera operators, tv techs a producer and a few others who are sports fans and try their best to bring you good coverage of games every week. Why would those people be dishonest? Is Ambrosie paying them to lie? Do they get a cut of CFL profits annually? Of course not.
It's just not true. Right call or wrong call I'm not sure but the dishonesty/coverup accusation is wrong.
I also find it pretty funny how there was this big narrative around less command centre reviews (3down had a really talked about article) and then this happens. They stayed out of it and went with the refs call on the field. Why is no one happy? More review?
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 04:53:58 AMI don't believe they hid anything. Not in real time. Where do you think all of the angles are coming from the shows him out anyway? Also TSN.
The issue is they have to make a determination in a very short amount of time. You can't go on twitter 10 minutes later and see all the views. You've got to make the call now.
You're conflating the 2 issues.
Command isn't hiding anything. That was TSN.
Once my computer got the keyframes calculated (which is realtime on pro gear like command/TSN, about 5 mins later on my gear), it
took me literally 10s to find the TSN frame and then advance 3 more frames. All of this can easily be accomplished within the 1-3 min command review time.
Hey!
New update SC just showed the real toe view frames during the Mace interview!!!! Finally someone doing their job. But 25 mins after the game ended when only the hardcore fans still watching. Maybe the fans blowing up the internet forced their hand. Now they get to milk the "command controversy" angle! LOL
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 05:02:38 AMI also find it pretty funny how there was this big narrative around less command centre reviews (3down had a really talked about article) and then this happens. They stayed out of it and went with the refs call on the field. Why is no one happy? More review?
Bingo, nailed it.
The funny things is, command mostly had the correct balance last season. I don't recall nearly as many controversies. It's whatever crap they are doing this year that is leaving every fan angry and screaming.
Ambrosie should come out tomorrow and say:
1) Reverting to the standards established in 2022-2023.
2) Bradbury always heads up command, never Valesi or anyone else. (Or pick someone else, but then they always head it up... no changing every week!)
TSN just showed the other angles on sports centre. One still looks very much in. The other looks more out. Hard to conclude one way or the other based on that to me.
His foot looks OOB here ...Out of Bounds (https://twitter.com/i/status/1824660778148040873)
That doesn't mean they wouldn't have got the major in the ensuing plays, but who knows?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 05:07:05 AMYou're conflating the 2 issues.
Command isn't hiding anything. That was TSN.
Once my computer got the keyframes calculated (which is realtime on pro gear like command/TSN, about 5 mins later on my gear), it took me literally 10s to find the TSN frame and then advance 3 more frames. All of this can easily be accomplished within the 1-3 min command review time.
Hey! New update SC just showed the real toe view frames during the Mace interview!!!! Finally someone doing their job. But 25 mins after the game ended when only the hardcore fans still watching. Maybe the fans blowing up the internet forced their hand. Now they get to milk the "command controversy" angle! LOL
I don't think anyone was intentionally hiding anything. "
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 04:57:01 AMIt's just not true. Right call or wrong call I'm not sure but the dishonesty/coverup accusation is wrong.
They aren't doing it to lie or cheat for Vegas bucks or something. They are doing it to try to show CFL in the best light, to try to show that command got it right, to try to show splashy big plays that get layfans excited... like this Alexander TD.
What's worth more to the CFL/TSN product, Alexander's toenail going OOB or him doing a spectacular dance on the rail to win the game? Ya, there's your answer.
I don't say this lightly. It's only after watching TSN do this repeatedly, at least once a month or more, for 5 years (at least).
Remember a game a few years back I think Dunigan was in the booth and clearly command/TSN got a call wrong and Duni said to himself (really the director) "no I'm not gonna let it go". Duni wanted to point out the bad call and TSN was trying to silence him.
Surely someone else who notices these things will back me up. If not, I'll try to highlight examples for you going forward to see if your opinion can be swayed after repeated exposure.
Oh ya, and NFL is waaaaaaaaaaaaay worse for this. The NFL booth and panel guys will just say "uhhhhh, don't think that was DPI" and then shut up immediately and never mention it again. At least our booth will sometimes chirp for 10-20s or so until they are told to shut up.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 04:57:01 AMIt's harder when you understand how it works. The people that work the games are just regular folk who work in a pressure cooker of an environment for 3.5 hours.
I also assume the PVR jockeys @TSN are better at this than me. I assume they know football better than me, have better eyes than me, better tech than me. If I'm spotting this stuff then so should they. If I'm wrong, maybe they need new guys.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 05:11:49 AMTSN just showed the other angles on sports centre. One still looks very much in. The other looks more out. Hard to conclude one way or the other based on that to me.
You can ignore the ins, they are irrelevant. You can't be a little pregnant.
You're saying the "out" shot shown during Mace interview didn't look definitive to you?? Should I whip up some stills here?
It's ok, under the new command standard we can all 100% admit his foot was 100% out and still deem the officiating to be good! CFL has said the call doesn't have to be "right" down to the frame or slowmo. They are doing precisely what they said they would: trust the on-field refs and on overturn egregious livetime flubs.
In livetime I thought his foot *might* be out. So clearly they will uphold the call based on their new standard: "might" is no longer good enough and the freezeframes must be ignore.
Now... start a thread about whether we like this new standard or not (I don't).
That's the true argument here.
EDIT:
http://forums.bluebombers.com/index.php?topic=55931.0
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 05:21:54 AMYou can ignore the ins, they are irrelevant. You can't be a little pregnant.
You're saying the "out" shot shown during Mace interview didn't look definitive to you?? Should I whip up some stills here?
It's ok, under the new command standard we can all 100% admit his foot was 100% out and still deem the officiating to be good! CFL has said the call doesn't have to be "right" down to the frame or slowmo. They are doing precisely what they said they would: trust the on-field refs and on overturn egregious livetime flubs.
In livetime I thought his foot *might* be out. So clearly they will uphold the call based on their new standard: "might" is no longer good enough and the freezeframes must be ignore.
Now... start a thread about whether we like this new standard or not (I don't). That's the true argument here.
It is clear without slow-mo or freeze frame to me. The foot 100% slides sideways and out of bounds. The only reason there is any question about it was (1) the ref missed the call on the field, and (2) TSN screwed up the freeze-frame. It exceeds the "egregious" threshold for me. It's clearly out, it resulted in a score, and it cost the Riders the game. I don't know what could get overturned if this wasn't overturned. If this is the standard, they might as well get rid of replay altogether. I think that Command Centre is just so gunshy right now that they won't overturn anything. I'm just chalking this up as another mistake and moving on (while cheering the Riders loss).
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 05:11:49 AMTSN just showed the other angles on sports centre. One still looks very much in. The other looks more out. Hard to conclude one way or the other based on that to me.
The one replay TSN showed his foot was clearly in , you could see green between his foot and the sideline, not much to disputed there
Quote from: dd on August 17, 2024, 05:54:26 AMThe one replay TSN showed his foot was clearly in , you could see green between his foot and the sideline, not much to disputed there
Freeze it 3 frames later after they unfreeze it... you'll probably need computer tech to see it. Shaw/MTS PVRs suck at this type of thing. Or wait until tomorrow, there will probably be clips and stills galore all over the place. Check out the SportsCentre clip during the Mace interview: they'll replay SC all night long.
Quote from: Go_Big_D on August 17, 2024, 04:31:42 AMwhat replay shows that...none from TSN!!
I saw that too, but the shoe WAS IN THE AIR....not the same as touching the white stripe. Look again at the replay. Like a micro second, but it really looks like his shoe was raised at that moment. Even if a millimetre in the air, it's still not touching! Who's got a tape measure hand?! :) We can load all the replays into a 3D simulator and confirm! 😊CRYders got some chintzy calls earlier for them, so it balances all out in the end even if his foot WAS OUT! ;)
My first impression after watching the replay was yes there's a still shot clearly showing a green strip between the shoe and the white line. But then after they release the pause button (or whatever they do) I went hmmm, it looked like it slid sideways, maybe out of bounds. But no further still shots of anything. Call stood, so must have been no clear evidence. Ok let's carryon. Beautiful touchdown run by the way.
Then there's the shot on Sportscenter, what, 20 minutes afterwards that shows the white turfgrass blades moving. OMG, that must mean his foot was out after all. By a millimeter or two, but by golly it was out and the Riders got robbed. (Have a look over there, it's insane, sickening really). That's the level of detail we're after? Millimeters? Lickety split though CC. We don't want to slow the game down you know. But we want it down to the millimeters, or you're going to hear about it. Got it?
And conspiracies? Good grief. Look, he straddled the inside of the OOB's line beautifully. That's what happened. That's what we saw. Let's move on, let the guys do their jobs, and stop the insanity. Just watch the games already. They've been really good. Rant over.
Quote from: ichabod_crane on August 17, 2024, 06:59:20 AMI saw that too, but the shoe WAS IN THE AIR....not the same as touching the white stripe. Look again at the replay. Like a micro second, but it really looks like his shoe was raised at that moment. Even if a millimetre in the air, it's still not touching! Who's got a tape measure hand?! :) We can load all the replays into a 3D simulator and confirm! 😊CRYders got some chintzy calls earlier for them, so it balances all out in the end even if his foot WAS OUT! ;)
Good point, we must take height position into account. I will give all the angles further looks with that in mind.
However, it seems clear to me that the motion that caused the twisting of the foot was the process of starting his push off for his next step. If you try to reproduce what he was doing you'll see what I mean. It was more a twist/shuffle that put him out, all before the next lift.
EDIT: after getting the screengrabs shown below, it's clear the foot was on the turf because you can see the bend of the foot/shoe from him starting to launch into his next step. The shoe cannot be bent like that once off the turf. So "lifted off the turf" is a moot point.
Quote from: bomb squad on August 17, 2024, 07:11:16 AMThat's what we saw. Let's move on, let the guys do their jobs, and stop the insanity. Just watch the games already. They've been really good. Rant over.
But isn't that easier to say because it wasn't your team? (Moreso: the hated Riders?!)
Some of these games have been great. But they were great before the controversial calls late in the 4th. Would getting the calls "right" have made the game even less exciting? Wouldn't a sneak + 1st & goal at the 5 have been just as exciting? How about the Neverending SSK/OTT game that led to the new command guidelines?
As for time: when it's the final 3 mins on a game-deciding call, do we really need command to rush through super fast because we're all impatient? We're used to sitting there for 3-5 mins as they go to commercial for these things in the past. Was that really so bad?
I bet (and hope!) the league puts out a statement on this decision to let us know if they decided on "a blade of grass" or on the new "clear in realtime / no freezeframe" guidelines. That would clear up a lot of this confusion.
Wow, props to Lauther... 35 mins into SC he takes a presser. That's 100% his choice and 99% of the time a loser of that magnitude will decline to speak. Lirim didn't do that after his 5-missed-kick game.
And Lauther ate all the blame 100%, even after Trevor said the loss wasn't his fault.
So real respect to Lauther. Doesn't make up for the mistakes, but it speaks to his character. Doing that ain't easy.
For the unbelievers, here are stills from my comp PVR system. These are every angle TSN provided except for the spidercam, which looks interesting but my PVR screwed up right when they showed it at the 11:00pm cutoff. I will get those stills once the 2am showing finishes recording.
All stills are unedited. I screengrabbed, cropped and zoomed and smoothed. That's it. Some are highly pixelated/artifacted because of extreme zooming.
I did cherry pick the most egregious shots that prove he was on the rail. Shots showing him in-bounds are useless (i.e. partially pregnant).
(https://fsi.ca/tec/oob2.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/oob3.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/oob1.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/oob0.jpg)
The last one makes a in-bounds call look plausible, however that's because of the timing of the shot has the worst of the rail-touching in-between frames. There's a bit of luck involved on when the camera takes its 1/30th/sec shot.
I posit that any "dark"/"green" you see beside/under the shoe is shadow, not turf.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 07:25:16 AMBut isn't that easier to say because it wasn't your team? (Moreso: the hated Riders?!)
Some of these games have been great. But they were great before the controversial calls late in the 4th. Would getting the calls "right" have made the game even less exciting? Wouldn't a sneak + 1st & goal at the 5 have been just as exciting? How about the Neverending SSK/OTT game that led to the new command guidelines?
As for time: when it's the final 3 mins on a game-deciding call, do we really need command to rush through super fast because we're all impatient? We're used to sitting there for 3-5 mins as they go to commercial for these things in the past. Was that really so bad?
I bet (and hope!) the league puts out a statement on this decision to let us know if they decided on "a blade of grass" or on the new "clear in realtime / no freezeframe" guidelines. That would clear up a lot of this confusion.
QuoteBut isn't that easier to say because it wasn't your team? (Moreso: the hated Riders?!)
No. It has absolutely nothing to do with it. Take my word for it. Yes, I'm a huge Bomber fan, but I'm also a huge fan of the CFL. I want rules and procedures that are what's best for the games and the league, even if that goes against the Bombers sometimes. Sure, I might be angry for a bit, but I will accept it in that vein. I let it go. I'm not bragging. There's a lot of fans who think that way as well. Rider fans? Well..... ;)
QuoteWas that really so bad?
I would be fine with it, but I just don't think it's necessary. Take a look at what you have, make a decision. If nothing jumps out at you. Stick with the call. Keep it simple. A lot of other people don't like the delays. We hear from them a lot. And they're going to hear from people anyway, no matter what they do.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 17, 2024, 05:17:18 AMI also assume the PVR jockeys @TSN are better at this than me. I assume they know football better than me, have better eyes than me, better tech than me. If I'm spotting this stuff then so should they. If I'm wrong, maybe they need new guys.
Lol this is going to sound rude but they are doing it real time with usually 15-20 seconds to work with live on air across the country. You're doing it in your basement from midnight to 6 am two hours after the game is over.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 02:19:14 PMLol this is going to sound rude but they are doing it real time with usually 15-20 seconds to work with live on air across the country. You're doing it in your basement from midnight to 6 am two hours after the game is over.
And that's the point, right? Combined with bomb squad's comment above that people don't want delay's in the football game. If you can't see something egregious within the 20-30 seconds you have, you keep the call and move on.
I'm wondering if the point is moot, because the Als then kick a field goal tie the game, and we go to overtime only for Lauther to miss a field goal.
Quote from: bomb squad on August 17, 2024, 07:11:16 AMMy first impression after watching the replay was yes there's a still shot clearly showing a green strip between the shoe and the white line. But then after they release the pause button (or whatever they do) I went hmmm, it looked like it slid sideways, maybe out of bounds. But no further still shots of anything. Call stood, so must have been no clear evidence. Ok let's carryon. Beautiful touchdown run by the way.
Then there's the shot on Sportscenter, what, 20 minutes afterwards that shows the white turfgrass blades moving. OMG, that must mean his foot was out after all. By a millimeter or two, but by golly it was out and the Riders got robbed. (Have a look over there, it's insane, sickening really). That's the level of detail we're after? Millimeters? Lickety split though CC. We don't want to slow the game down you know. But we want it down to the millimeters, or you're going to hear about it. Got it?
And conspiracies? Good grief. Look, he straddled the inside of the OOB's line beautifully. That's what happened. That's what we saw. Let's move on, let the guys do their jobs, and stop the insanity. Just watch the games already. They've been really good. Rant over.
take a coffee man! :D
Quote from: peg_city on August 17, 2024, 02:27:10 PMI'm wondering if the point is moot, because the Als then kick a field goal tie the game, and we go to overtime only for Lauther to miss a field goal.
imagine the Riders got another tie. LOL
Well the one saving grace for the riders is that Harris looked pretty good. I genuinely want to dislike the guy cause he is wearing green but he does seem like a decent human being.
Riders will be tough to sweep (LDC and Banjo bowl) but to catch and overtake them we really need to.
Take care of bc and Hamilton and we will see where the riders and sitting.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 17, 2024, 02:38:47 PMimagine the Riders got another tie. LOL
saw a quote on the other forum that was great....
the rider fans are being concerned about the wrong foot...
(wasn't the one that may or may not have been out of bounds)
Quote from: Go_Big_D on August 17, 2024, 04:39:04 AMur not accounting for the camera angle..none of the replays were definitive from above to say he was OOB
I am. That's why I know he was OOB, because the overhead shot camera angle they showed, shows him going OOB. You're not going to convince me and everyone else out there saying the same thing that he wasn't.
CC gets it wrong yet again.
Bottom line riders lose the game, which is all that matters. Nothing was conclusive, so they went with the call on the field which is the right thing to do.
Never seen so many people get bit out of shape because call didn't go the riders way...remember when we played them and got jobbed, well this is just the law of averages catching up to them. Boo hoo cryers boo hoo
Love your kicker by the way. How is that guy still got a job!?!don't blame the refs for shame you should have clearly won if you had a decent kicker. Ha ha!!
The call on the field stands.
Unless significant evidence to overturn exists.
If you have to zoom in, if you have to go super slow mo, then significant evidence does not exist to overturn.
If they has said he was out on the field, that would have stood as well.
Quote from: bomb squad on August 17, 2024, 01:37:01 PMI would be fine with it, but I just don't think it's necessary. Take a look at what you have, make a decision. If nothing jumps out at you. Stick with the call. Keep it simple. A lot of other people don't like the delays. We hear from them a lot. And they're going to hear from people anyway, no matter what they do.
What if "he's OOB" does jump out at you when you shuttle the frames and you still call a TD because you are forbidden from using frame-level data?
That's what we're dealing with here. Command is saying to ignore what you see if you can't see it in realtime.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 17, 2024, 02:19:14 PMLol this is going to sound rude but they are doing it real time with usually 15-20 seconds to work with live on air across the country. You're doing it in your basement from midnight to 6 am two hours after the game is over.
It's not rude, it's a valid question. And a good one.
My tech doesn't calc the keyframes until about 5 mins after the play. But pro tech, like command center has, does it immediately. They can jog shuttle frames instantly on any of the feeds.
If I had the same tech (which I effectively do but after that delay), I could, within 10s, prove his foot was out. I just eyeball the angle that livetime gives the best "he's out" view, and jog shuttle a few frames at that point. 10 seconds.
This has nothing to do with delay.
The reason I waited until so late to post my frames is because I thought everyone else on Riderfans and Twitter would post them all for me (maybe with 4k tech instead of my 1k tech). When I saw that the only stuff being posted was horrible cell-phone-pic-of-tv pics, I then took it upon myself to make sure there was some accurate record of what really happened.
I want it to be clear to the whole world that 100% his foot is out with zero question. That is so we can argue the REAL issue here: do we like the new command standard of purposely getting things "wrong" because they ignore freezeframe.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 18, 2024, 03:14:25 AMIt's not rude, it's a valid question. And a good one.
My tech doesn't calc the keyframes until about 5 mins after the play. But pro tech, like command center has, does it immediately. They can jog shuttle frames instantly on any of the feeds.
If I had the same tech (which I effectively do but after that delay), I could, within 10s, prove his foot was out. I just eyeball the angle that livetime gives the best "he's out" view, and jog shuttle a few frames at that point. 10 seconds.
This has nothing to do with delay.
The reason I waited until so late to post my frames is because I thought everyone else on Riderfans and Twitter would post them all for me (maybe with 4k tech instead of my 1k tech). When I saw that the only stuff being posted was horrible cell-phone-pic-of-tv pics, I then took it upon myself to make sure there was some accurate record of what really happened.
I want it to be clear to the whole world that 100% his foot is out with zero question. That is so we can argue the REAL issue here: do we like the new command standard of purposely getting things "wrong" because they ignore freezeframe.
Thanks for going through the trouble to do this. I appreciate it as I am sure many others do as well. I always thought the whole point was "to get it right"!
Quote from: peg_city on August 17, 2024, 02:27:10 PMI'm wondering if the point is moot, because the Als then kick a field goal tie the game, and we go to overtime only for Lauther to miss a field goal.
Possible. However, with 0.5-1.0Y to go, I think MTL goes for it on 3rd and still gets a TD from the 5.
Plus, if SSK needs just 1 to win, Lauther could do a boomer FG attempt with no regard for accuracy. Get the rouge from 45 and win.
Since SSK outplayed MTL all night long (lost due to FG misses and a KR TD), I actually think SSK wins in OT. Dink & dunk MTL from the 35 and win.
Quote from: dd on August 17, 2024, 07:29:51 PMBottom line riders lose the game, which is all that matters. Nothing was conclusive, so they went with the call on the field which is the right thing to do.
It was conclusive he was out,
but not in realtime. So they upheld the call.
It's a valid position to agree with command's new paradigm, and if so, vote NO on the http://forums.bluebombers.com/index.php?topic=55931.0 poll.
Quote from: theaardvark on August 17, 2024, 08:34:02 PMThe call on the field stands.
Unless significant evidence to overturn exists.
If you have to zoom in, if you have to go super slow mo, then significant evidence does not exist to overturn.
If they has said he was out on the field, that would have stood as well.
This is 100% correct.
At least we are starting to understand this brave new CFL command world. I personally don't like it, but if the are now going to be consistent with it, I can adjust. I'm just not sure the fan uproar about these "new" calls will allow them to continue with it.
Can you imagine a GC being won in a similar way by a reviewed call that 100% is clearly wrong in freezeframe? You better believe that is coming soon...
New video clip to augment my stills:
https://x.com/_fivebeerplan/status/1824662225602437226?t=ADdlYxrqzTtb8w5h9oBVxw&s=19
NOTE: this video is not made or posted by me, I'm just passing it on, I cannot vouch for it but it seems to accurately show the situation. Playing it in reverse was a good idea.
Quote from: Pete on August 17, 2024, 03:17:31 PMsaw a quote on the other forum that was great....
the rider fans are being concerned about the wrong foot...
(wasn't the one that may or may not have been out of bounds)
CFL Today @CFL_Today Aug 16
Attention all Rider fans, this is the foot you should be more concerned about....just saying.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVKCF_wbMAABBge?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Quote from: gobombersgo on August 18, 2024, 06:51:06 AMAttention all Rider fans, this is the foot you should be more concerned about....just saying.
Also: why is Alexander not wearing socks (or at least ones that go above his ankle) and the top of his shoes are so loose? Not sure I've seen that before.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 18, 2024, 06:01:24 AMNew video clip to augment my stills:
https://x.com/_fivebeerplan/status/1824662225602437226?t=ADdlYxrqzTtb8w5h9oBVxw&s=19
NOTE: this video is not made or posted by me, I'm just passing it on, I cannot vouch for it but it seems to accurately show the situation. Playing it in reverse was a good idea.
I have no doubt that image could be altered.
Quote from: gobombersgo on August 18, 2024, 06:51:06 AMCFL Today @CFL_Today Aug 16
Attention all Rider fans, this is the foot you should be more concerned about....just saying.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVKCF_wbMAABBge?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Exactly right. Try making some field goals and you wouldn't have to rely on the refs for the win.
Had Lauther made just two more of his FGs, the Riders likely win on Friday night. He cost his team the game, IMO.
But they didn't - and everyone outside of the rectangle province liked that.
(and yes, Alexander's foot does appear to be out of bounds)
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 18, 2024, 04:09:34 AMPossible. However, with 0.5-1.0Y to go, I think MTL goes for it on 3rd and still gets a TD from the 5.
Plus, if SSK needs just 1 to win, Lauther could do a boomer FG attempt with no regard for accuracy. Get the rouge from 45 and win.
Since SSK outplayed MTL all night long (lost due to FG misses and a KR TD), I actually think SSK wins in OT. Dink & dunk MTL from the 35 and win.
It would have been pretty close to 2. With the amount of times and the amount of detail with which you've looked at this play, I'm surprised that got by you.
Quote from: bomb squad on August 19, 2024, 10:55:45 PMIt would have been pretty close to 2. With the amount of times and the amount of detail with which you've looked at this play, I'm surprised that got by you.
Nope, I studied the spot very carefully. The same pics where he stepped out showed his body angle and ball position before I zoomed them in for the foot focus.
He was leaning heavily forward and his ball-holding arm is the one extended forward at that moment.
Assuming the yellow TSN 1st down line is somewhat correct, at worst he is exactly 1.0Y away from 1st D. That would be the spot if command overturned the TD, because they would also determine the spot.
Remember: the spot would be where the tip of the ball is when his foot twists OOB, NOT where his foot is!
If I must I can get some stills for you. I'm looking at them right now. The spot is the 6YL or slightly in advance of it.
Ye of little Tecno faith!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 20, 2024, 01:24:52 AMNope, I studied the spot very carefully. The same pics where he stepped out showed his body angle and ball position before I zoomed them in for the foot focus.
He was leaning heavily forward and his ball-holding arm is the one extended forward at that moment.
Assuming the yellow TSN 1st down line is somewhat correct, at worst he is exactly 1.0Y away from 1st D. That would be the spot if command overturned the TD, because they would also determine the spot.
Remember: the spot would be where the tip of the ball is when his foot twists OOB, NOT where his foot is!
If I must I can get some stills for you. I'm looking at them right now. The spot is the 6YL or slightly in advance of it.
Ye of little Tecno faith!
No need. You've got a point that the ball appears to be forward of the foot, if that's indeed how they spot the ball in that situation (you can get me cfl info on that if you want). Not a yard though. His upper body is turned inward with the ball. Maybe a foot. My guess is they would have spotted it close to where his foot touched since that is the only definitive look they have. So, definitely more than a yard, and certainly not less than a yard. Going for it would have been a fair gamble.
Quote from: bomb squad on August 20, 2024, 03:24:10 AMNo need. You've got a point that the ball appears to be forward of the foot, if that's indeed how they spot the ball in that situation (you can get me cfl info on that if you want). Not a yard though. His upper body is turned inward with the ball. Maybe a foot. My guess is they would have spotted it close to where his foot touched since that is the only definitive look they have. So, definitely more than a yard, and certainly not less than a yard. Going for it would have been a fair gamble.
Well, since i have it on my screen now anyhow:
(https://fsi.ca/tec/spot0.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/spot1.jpg)
That red line is straight down, that is where the forward tip of the ball is (maybe even a bit beyond, but what I marked is provable).
So it depends on the accuracy of the yellow TSN line. If we assume it's accurate, then we have basically a 1.0Y sneak. Ok, it could be maybe an inch or two beyond 1Y, but note that to gain yardage they only need to hit the leading edge of the yellow line!
Not a complete gimmee, but confident-OL teams usually go for it. With 30s left do you think about tying instead? Maybe. What would MOS do?? Before Strev botched 3 in 3 games, I would have said "certainly". Now... maybe?
But in no world would command review that toe-tap and put the ball where the trailing toe is. They would put it where the ball is because that is where the ball was advanced to. And that's almost a yard ahead of where the back toe touched the rail!
Remember, we're not talking a ref spot in realtime with vision obscured, etc. We're talking command left in a situation with no spot. Therefore they would use freezeframe to generate a spot. They'd come up with the same I did above. 3rd & 1 at the 6.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 20, 2024, 04:17:06 AMWell, since i have it on my screen now anyhow:
(https://fsi.ca/tec/spot0.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/spot1.jpg)
That red line is straight down, that is where the forward tip of the ball is (maybe even a bit beyond, but what I marked is provable).
So it depends on the accuracy of the yellow TSN line. If we assume it's accurate, then we have basically a 1.0Y sneak. Ok, it could be maybe an inch or two beyond 1Y, but note that to gain yardage they only need to hit the leading edge of the yellow line!
Not a complete gimmee, but confident-OL teams usually go for it. With 30s left do you think about tying instead? Maybe. What would MOS do?? Before Strev botched 3 in 3 games, I would have said "certainly". Now... maybe?
But in no world would command review that toe-tap and put the ball where the trailing toe is. They would put it where the ball is because that is where the ball was advanced to. And that's almost a yard ahead of where the back toe touched the rail!
Remember, we're not talking a ref spot in realtime with vision obscured, etc. We're talking command left in a situation with no spot. Therefore they would use freezeframe to generate a spot. They'd come up with the same I did above. 3rd & 1 at the 6.
Not so sure about that in this type of situation as it would be a difficult for a field official to determine the position of the ball in most cases. Therefore, they would go with the where the player first touched the line. If it's ball first in the air, then yes they would have to give it their best guess. And even replay would have a hard time with that unless they lucked out with a good angle. With a routine ground tackle play on the other hand, it's much easier to see where the ball is when a players body (other than hands and feet) first touch the ground because the ball is much closer to the ground, so they can go with ball position at time of first ground touch.
In any case, I wasn't able to find any info on ball spotting rules in Canadian Football and apparently neither were you. It's probably one of those officiating classroom type rules. My own personal take on it from watching it for so many years is it's spotted at where the player first touches the line, as long as the ball is still inbounds. But I could definitely be wrong on that.
Perhaps dd is willing to weigh in on this?
Quote from: bomb squad on August 20, 2024, 06:44:31 AMNot so sure about that in this type of situation as it would be a difficult for a field official to determine the position of the ball in most cases.
But that's my point... in this case, because
command would overturn the non-OOB to OOB, no on-field ref would have anything to do with any spot. The spot would entirely be determined by command center. And they would use freezeframe to get it right because they'd have no other choice.
Quote from: bomb squad on August 20, 2024, 06:44:31 AMAnd even replay would have a hard time with that unless they lucked out with a good angle.
They would just do what I did and draw a line straight down and then another parallel to the 5YL (I didn't, but could do that too). As long as the camera shot used had the camera level with the ground (probably has gimbals or similar, so safe assumption), the method of drawing a straight line down is accurate. They probably have software to (semi)automate this. In any event, they'd have to come up with
some spot, any spot, and do so by themselves! I would like to think they'd try to get it "right".
Quote from: bomb squad on August 20, 2024, 06:44:31 AMIn any case, I wasn't able to find any info on ball spotting rules in Canadian Football and apparently neither were you.
I didn't know it was a rulebook challenge! Ok... I checked it out and it appears the main rule speaking to the "spot" (but not with that term) is:
Rule 1 Conduct of the Game
Section 4 Dead Ball
The ball is dead when: ... The ball carrier is contacted by an opponent and ... touches the ground. The ball is dead at the point where it was held when touching the ground.That's really the only rule that deals with "forward progress"! So let's combine that with:
Rule 1 Conduct of the Game
Section 9 Out Of Bounds
Article 1 Definitions
The ball is Out of Bounds when a player in possession of the ball touches a Sideline.So if we assume the standard is always at the point of the ball, not the player foot position (or something else), then I think my Alexander spot would be correct at 1Y short. In every other play I can think of the spot is always the furthest progress of the ball at the moment of an event (tackle, OOB, etc) (excluding retreating and reestablishing like RBs/WRs sometimes do).
If it wasn't the furthest advancement of the ball, then what body part do you pick as the spot for Alexander going OOB? The leading foot? Trailing foot? The touching foot?
I find it odd that (from what I can find) the whole concept isn't spelled out in black & white in the rulebook. Why not just say when the player steps OOB the furthest advancement of the ball is the spot?
Quote from: bomb squad on August 20, 2024, 06:44:31 AMas long as the ball is still inbounds
Great additional gotcha. I've asked many times and never gotten a good answer that has been proven by watching CFL games... is a ball hovering/held over the sideline (i.e. OOB) still advancing as long as the player isn't OOB? Many have told me that the standard is "within the field of play", but there are so many examples where balls hover over the rail for a moment and are still live/advanced (like on fumbles batted back in, or batted out!).
My favorite thought experiment is: a
WR catches a wide out at left side LoS. He extends left hand holding the ball out over the rail. He runs the whole field into the EZ. The ball technically never returns inside the field of play. But the WR never goes OOB. Is it a TD?
I say yes based on the fact sidelines have never seemed to count for squat until the player himself steps OOB. (The GL cone maybe being the only exception.) However, I see no rule that specifies whether to be OOB/dead the ball has to
touch OOB or
just be over OOB!
Those who want to say it's not a TD... give me a counter-example you've actually seen in a real, modern CFL game.
In fact: this Alexander example might prove me right! There are moments where his carry arm almost certainly has the ball hovering over the rail... if progress stopped the instant the ball "left the field of play" by cracking the plane of the rail, then Alexander would have his run ruled dead the instant that happened! I think this proves that (except for at the cone) "rail
planes" are irrelevant. Only rail
touches matter for carriers and for balls.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 20, 2024, 08:19:25 AMBut that's my point... in this case, because command would overturn the non-OOB to OOB, no on-field ref would have anything to do with any spot. The spot would entirely be determined by command center. And they would use freezeframe to get it right because they'd have no other choice.
They would just do what I did and draw a line straight down and then another parallel to the 5YL (I didn't, but could do that too). As long as the camera shot used had the camera level with the ground (probably has gimbals or similar, so safe assumption), the method of drawing a straight line down is accurate. They probably have software to (semi)automate this. In any event, they'd have to come up with some spot, any spot, and do so by themselves! I would like to think they'd try to get it "right".
I didn't know it was a rulebook challenge! Ok... I checked it out and it appears the main rule speaking to the "spot" (but not with that term) is:
Rule 1 Conduct of the Game
Section 4 Dead Ball
The ball is dead when: ... The ball carrier is contacted by an opponent and ... touches the ground. The ball is dead at the point where it was held when touching the ground.
That's really the only rule that deals with "forward progress"! So let's combine that with:
Rule 1 Conduct of the Game
Section 9 Out Of Bounds
Article 1 Definitions
The ball is Out of Bounds when a player in possession of the ball touches a Sideline.
So if we assume the standard is always at the point of the ball, not the player foot position (or something else), then I think my Alexander spot would be correct at 1Y short. In every other play I can think of the spot is always the furthest progress of the ball at the moment of an event (tackle, OOB, etc) (excluding retreating and reestablishing like RBs/WRs sometimes do).
If it wasn't the furthest advancement of the ball, then what body part do you pick as the spot for Alexander going OOB? The leading foot? Trailing foot? The touching foot?
I find it odd that (from what I can find) the whole concept isn't spelled out in black & white in the rulebook. Why not just say when the player steps OOB the furthest advancement of the ball is the spot?
Great additional gotcha. I've asked many times and never gotten a good answer that has been proven by watching CFL games... is a ball hovering/held over the sideline (i.e. OOB) still advancing as long as the player isn't OOB? Many have told me that the standard is "within the field of play", but there are so many examples where balls hover over the rail for a moment and are still live/advanced (like on fumbles batted back in, or batted out!).
My favorite thought experiment is: a WR catches a wide out at left side LoS. He extends left hand holding the ball out over the rail. He runs the whole field into the EZ. The ball technically never returns inside the field of play. But the WR never goes OOB. Is it a TD?
I say yes based on the fact sidelines have never seemed to count for squat until the player himself steps OOB. (The GL cone maybe being the only exception.) However, I see no rule that specifies whether to be OOB/dead the ball has to touch OOB or just be over OOB!
Those who want to say it's not a TD... give me a counter-example you've actually seen in a real, modern CFL game.
In fact: this Alexander example might prove me right! There are moments where his carry arm almost certainly has the ball hovering over the rail... if progress stopped the instant the ball "left the field of play" by cracking the plane of the rail, then Alexander would have his run ruled dead the instant that happened! I think this proves that (except for at the cone) "rail planes" are irrelevant. Only rail touches matter for carriers and for balls.
Round and round we go. Let's agree there are questions and nuances wrt ball spotting. The rulebook should definitely address them, but doesn't. I get they want to have rules that can fit into a compact booklet for officials, but no reason they can't have an expanded version available. Or is it the culture of secrecy again?
So what would your answer be to my scenario? I'm really curious and no one ever answers!
A WR catches a wide out at left side LoS. He extends left hand holding the ball out over the rail. He runs the whole field into the EZ. The ball technically never returns inside the field of play. But the WR never goes OOB. Is it a TD?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 20, 2024, 10:47:52 PMSo what would your answer be to my scenario? I'm really curious and no one ever answers!
A WR catches a wide out at left side LoS. He extends left hand holding the ball out over the rail. He runs the whole field into the EZ. The ball technically never returns inside the field of play. But the WR never goes OOB. Is it a TD?
Yes.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 20, 2024, 10:47:52 PMSo what would your answer be to my scenario? I'm really curious and no one ever answers!
A WR catches a wide out at left side LoS. He extends left hand holding the ball out over the rail. He runs the whole field into the EZ. The ball technically never returns inside the field of play. But the WR never goes OOB. Is it a TD?
Yes
Yep same thing as when a reviever catches a ball on the sideline in the endzone ,ball might be outside,but as long as one foot is in bounds its a td
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 20, 2024, 10:47:52 PMSo what would your answer be to my scenario? I'm really curious and no one ever answers!
A WR catches a wide out at left side LoS. He extends left hand holding the ball out over the rail. He runs the whole field into the EZ. The ball technically never returns inside the field of play. But the WR never goes OOB. Is it a TD?
Sorry. Great question. I'm assuming he extends the ball over the sideline
after he's established a catch (that makes a difference). My answer is no and here's why: After he's made the catch, he becomes a ball carrier. When he extends the ball over the sideline, it's ball OOB. Play dies right there.
An example that everybody has seen many times is when a ball carrier charges for the corner where the pylon is and holds the ball out to attempt to touch or break the plane of the pylon, but instead the ball breaks the plane of the sideline first. In that case it's 1st and goal at the 1.
PS - You got treated poorly over there on RF for no good reason. Shame on them.
Quote from: bomb squad on August 21, 2024, 12:35:55 AMSorry. Great question. I'm assuming he extends the ball over the sideline after he's established a catch (that makes a difference).
Yes, makes a normal catch in-bounds. Puts it in his left hand and dangles it above the sideline the whole time. You assumed correctly. Though I guess if we establish the correct answer to my question, and it's YES, then we could get into the weeds some more!...
Quote from: bomb squad on August 21, 2024, 12:35:55 AMMy answer is no and here's why: After he's made the catch, he becomes a ball carrier. When he extends the ball over the sideline, it's ball OOB. Play dies right there.
Interesting. But is the ball really OOB by rule just by hovering over the sideline? I've seen plays where the ball is bouncing OOB and I swear it's over the rail and some guy diving from in-bounds bats it BACK into the field. Then someone recovers it, and it's considered a recovery. The ball
didn't die when it simply hovered over the rail. In fact, didn't this happen to
our team a few/many years ago? Rings a bell.
How would you explain that? Refs got it wrong?
Part of the problem here is the rulebook doesn't ever speak to "a plane of the sideline", like it extends into the air like a goal-line. We know for sure a ball dies if it physically touches the sideline at altitude zero... but I think the "plane" idea is much hazier.
Quote from: bomb squad on August 21, 2024, 12:35:55 AMAn example that everybody has seen many times is when a ball carrier charges for the corner where the pylon is and holds the ball out to attempt to touch or break the plane of the pylon, but instead the ball breaks the plane of the sideline first. In that case it's 1st and goal at the 1.
Have we really seen that many times? Usually it's a knee in-bounds or a foot on the rail that makes it dead/DBC, not a rail plane breakage.
Since I first thought of this scenario I've been watching really closely for examples to prove/disprove either yes/no theory. I haven't seen a perfect example yet.
My theory about the pylon quirk is that it's kind of its own special thing. If you're right, maybe it seems special because it's the only place where you can perfectly see & prove the bail has broken the rail plane? But since the whole pylon idea seems like a shoehorned in modern addition, I don't get too excited about it proving anything in general. So many one-off special exceptions in the rulebook.
So let me ask you
personally another question: if the ball is OOB/dead if hovering across the rail plane at all as you say, then why didn't the refs blow Alexander dead regardless of toe-touching? If his toe was 1mm away from touching, then certainly the ball in that same side's arm tuck would be over the rail??
Also, we now have contradictory opinions here! I want everyone to get involved out into the weeds so we can solve this problem for good!!
Quote from: Pete on August 20, 2024, 11:15:39 PMYep same thing as when a reviever catches a ball on the sideline in the endzone ,ball might be outside,but as long as one foot is in bounds its a td
Pete makes a great point. The late-2019 CGY@WPG Zach to Darvin catch... that ball is definitely over the rail before the catch.
Quote from: bomb squad on August 21, 2024, 12:35:55 AMPS - You got treated poorly over there on RF for no good reason. Shame on them.
Ya, but don't worry, I have thick skin when it comes to Greenie fans. While most are nice (online and in person), there's always the odd DB stubble jumper. Most of them aren't ones for high-brain posts... there's a reason the average post there is 1 sentence! (with apologies to the smart and/or nice ones of which there are many!) Thanks for the concern though!
You got my back? :D :D (see my avatar)
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 21, 2024, 05:55:53 AMYes, makes a normal catch in-bounds. Puts it in his left hand and dangles it above the sideline the whole time. You assumed correctly. Though I guess if we establish the correct answer to my question, and it's YES, then we could get into the weeds some more!...
Interesting. But is the ball really OOB by rule just by hovering over the sideline? I've seen plays where the ball is bouncing OOB and I swear it's over the rail and some guy diving from in-bounds bats it BACK into the field. Then someone recovers it, and it's considered a recovery. The ball didn't die when it simply hovered over the rail. In fact, didn't this happen to our team a few/many years ago? Rings a bell.
How would you explain that? Refs got it wrong?
Part of the problem here is the rulebook doesn't ever speak to "a plane of the sideline", like it extends into the air like a goal-line. We know for sure a ball dies if it physically touches the sideline at altitude zero... but I think the "plane" idea is much hazier.
Have we really seen that many times? Usually it's a knee in-bounds or a foot on the rail that makes it dead/DBC, not a rail plane breakage.
Since I first thought of this scenario I've been watching really closely for examples to prove/disprove either yes/no theory. I haven't seen a perfect example yet.
My theory about the pylon quirk is that it's kind of its own special thing. If you're right, maybe it seems special because it's the only place where you can perfectly see & prove the bail has broken the rail plane? But since the whole pylon idea seems like a shoehorned in modern addition, I don't get too excited about it proving anything in general. So many one-off special exceptions in the rulebook.
So let me ask you personally another question: if the ball is OOB/dead if hovering across the rail plane at all as you say, then why didn't the refs blow Alexander dead regardless of toe-touching? If his toe was 1mm away from touching, then certainly the ball in that same side's arm tuck would be over the rail??
Also, we now have contradictory opinions here! I want everyone to get involved out into the weeds so we can solve this problem for good!!
Pete makes a great point. The late-2019 CGY@WPG Zach to Darvin catch... that ball is definitely over the rail before the catch.
Ya, but don't worry, I have thick skin when it comes to Greenie fans. While most are nice (online and in person), there's always the odd DB stubble jumper. Most of them aren't ones for high-brain posts... there's a reason the average post there is 1 sentence! (with apologies to the smart and/or nice ones of which there are many!) Thanks for the concern though! You got my back? :D :D (see my avatar)
Just read the rulebook again and It's actually quite clear in Section 9, Article 1 when an OOB occurs. What remains unclear is where the ball is spotted when the player touches the sideline.
But, I'm keeping my answer because the ball never breaks the plane of the goal line in the field of play. What I don't know is where the ball would be spotted.
QuoteBut is the ball really OOB by rule just by hovering over the sideline?
No. See Section 9 Article 1.
QuoteHave we really seen that many times?
Many times, a few times, whatever. Footballs been televised for a long time. Yes, players have tried to lay out in the air and touch the pylon and been unsuccessful. The ball is usually placed at the 1.
QuoteMy theory about the pylon quirk is that it's kind of its own special thing
What's special about it is that it's outside of the sideline, but considered in play when the ball touches it or breaks it's plane.
QuoteWhile most are nice (online and in person), there's always the odd DB stubble jumper.]
Yes, that's true and it was only one poster. But nobody exactly came to your defence, did they? And what about the administrator/moderators? They let it stand. What does that say? I think I can safely say that wouldn't have happened here.
Quote from: bomb squad on August 21, 2024, 02:16:24 PMJust read the rulebook again and It's actually quite clear in Section 9, Article 1 when an OOB occurs. What remains unclear is where the ball is spotted when the player touches the sideline.
But, I'm keeping my answer because the ball never breaks the plane of the goal line in the field of play. What I don't know is where the ball would be spotted.
Ok, then I think I can get a
consensus then with a slightly changed scenario:
WR catches the ball in-bounds at LoS near the left sideline. Puts it in left hand and dangles it above the sideline. Runs all the way down the field like that.
At the 1YL he puts the ball in his right hand so the ball is clearly in-bounds. He crosses the goal line.
Is this a TD?
Can I assume everyone, including bomb squad thinks YES, this is a TD? If so, I'll finally have my answer and can sleep at night once again.
Quote from: bomb squad on August 21, 2024, 02:16:24 PMSee Section 9 Article 1.
I still see that definition as not saying anything about the sideline PLANE. To me "touches a sideline" means it physically contacts the turf, not an abstract plane. So I think, as written, s9a1 means hovering doesn't make a ball dead.
Quote from: bomb squad on August 21, 2024, 02:16:24 PMYes, that's true and it was only one poster. But nobody exactly came to your defence, did they? And what about the administrator/moderators? They let it stand. What does that say? I think I can safely say that wouldn't have happened here.
Riderfans is the wild west compared to this place! If they mod anything, I've never seen the evidence :-) Don't worry, I always pack my pea shooter.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 22, 2024, 05:23:31 AMOk, then I think I can get a consensus then with a slightly changed scenario:
WR catches the ball in-bounds at LoS near the left sideline. Puts it in left hand and dangles it above the sideline. Runs all the way down the field like that. At the 1YL he puts the ball in his right hand so the ball is clearly in-bounds. He crosses the goal line.
Is this a TD?
Can I assume everyone, including bomb squad thinks YES, this is a TD? If so, I'll finally have my answer and can sleep at night once again.
I still see that definition as not saying anything about the sideline PLANE. To me "touches a sideline" means it physically contacts the turf, not an abstract plane. So I think, as written, s9a1 means hovering doesn't make a ball dead.
Riderfans is the wild west compared to this place! If they mod anything, I've never seen the evidence :-) Don't worry, I always pack my pea shooter.
Hey, come on, you can't just change the scenario just for the sake of consensus. That's kind of like cheating. ;) Since your scenario is theoretically possible (even practically if it's close to the goal line), there has to be a definitive yes or no answer. Therefore, since it's a fact that the ball must break the plane of the goal line in order for it to be a td, the answer is has to be no. Correct?
QuoteI still see that definition as not saying anything about the sideline PLANE. To me "touches a sideline" means it physically contacts the turf, not an abstract plane. So I think, as written, s9a1 means hovering doesn't make a ball dead.
There's no disagreement on this. We've already established that.
QuoteRiderfans is the wild west compared to this place!
I have an account there, but very rarely post unless it's strictly CFL related. IMO any comment or analysis from outside about the Riders, good, bad, or indifferent, is generally not going to be welcomed and probably be seen as patronizing. It's somewhat understandable, but they take it to another level. That's just me though. You're brave to do it. I do enjoy reading over there however.
Quote from: bomb squad on August 22, 2024, 10:11:38 AMI have an account there, but very rarely post unless it's strictly CFL related. IMO any comment or analysis from outside about the Riders, good, bad, or indifferent, is generally not going to be welcomed and probably be seen as patronizing. It's somewhat understandable, but they take it to another level. That's just me though. You're brave to do it. I do enjoy reading over there however.
Our forum does it so much better, probably why we have more other-team fans here than they do there. And I don't even think it's just because our mods would banhammer our members' posts if they were too out of line... I just don't think our members would bother being that disagreeable.
We jibe and we poke fun and we laugh and we build up our team here. For visitors here it's more like attending a real game @PAS... for the most part they'll get friendly treatment with the odd "boo go home chuckle laugh". Not so much at the Riderfans forum! It's like they're mad you exist. Oh well! I'll keep trying anyhow, to bring the facts. I've already made a couple of new acquaintances from my posts there! The nicer fans keep a lower profile so that their bullies don't turn on them too, I guess! ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: bomb squad on August 22, 2024, 10:11:38 AMHey, come on, you can't just change the scenario just for the sake of consensus. That's kind of like cheating. ;) Since your scenario is theoretically possible (even practically if it's close to the goal line), there has to be a definitive yes or no answer. Therefore, since it's a fact that the ball must break the plane of the goal line in order for it to be a td, the answer is has to be no. Correct?
Reread my new scenario. Right before crossing the GL plane the R pulls the ball in-bounds so it properly, legally, breaks the GL plane in the normal manner. I'm pretty sure you'll say YES it's a TD (finally!).
And if so I'm fully satisfied and everyone else who chimed in also said YES so my work is done here!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 23, 2024, 06:30:49 AMReread my new scenario. Right before crossing the GL plane the R pulls the ball in-bounds so it properly, legally, breaks the GL plane in the normal manner. I'm pretty sure you'll say YES it's a TD (finally!).
And if so I'm fully satisfied and everyone else who chimed in also said YES so my work is done here!
Oh, I see. You're no longer interested in the original scenario because you don't like the answer. Moving on.
Quote from: bomb squad on August 23, 2024, 01:08:38 PMOh, I see. You're no longer interested in the original scenario because you don't like the answer. Moving on.
Holy smokes, rough crowd.
The entire point of my scenario is: is a ball dead when it hovers over the sideline. The TD part is irrelevant. I was just trying to keep my scenario simple, but you gave a good reason why the GL plane-crossing moment is special. So I took that out of the scenario.
All I'm trying to do is find a scenario where the ball can be hovering over the rail for a while and still "count" as yards gained. The point isn't the scenario, the scenario is just a tool to prove the point.
Since you already agreed that except for the GL plane part a ball can hover over the sideline and not be OOB, and since no one besides you said "no" in any manner, I'll finally close my book on this and conclude that a ball is not dead nor "OOB" if it hovers over, but does not touch, the sideline.
And that's all I ever wanted. So thank you.